team threads

looks great Makk, though i've never seen a rock with that many tiny circular bumps [:p].........how ever it's 100% spot on for weathered clay.

I did have a go the activity, but everything turned pear shaped as soon as I started normal mapping[:X]. I?ll have to set aside a weekend and practice for the next one.

Hey look at that - this slipped passed me! Nice job Makk - normal mapping isnt as difficult as you thought now right? Its a piece of cake!

Goosebumpped rock - nice [:)]

Nice job makk for a first timer :)

Keep having a go at normal mapping other simple yet detailed objects to gte more of a feel to the whole process :)

hehe, thanks guys.
Yeah all I did was subdivide (one time too many as well!) and used a brush with the projection master, so it was pretty simple.
Im planning on doing another one as well, this time hopefully better detialed :)

Rock on!!!

HAHAHAHA!!

Seriously though, this should be fun and Im down for it.
Might I add though if you dont have zbrush, grab the photoshop normal map plugin, overlay a rock texture and use the plugin. You might be able to get some decent results with that.

Yes very true about the phtoshop thing, but I'd like everyone to try the normal mapping from a high polygon scource model as that is a little trickier but much more effective :D

A basic process of how I would go about this...

1. Build the low polygon base mesh

2. Create a high polygon source mesh from the Low polygon mesh. Make sure they match as close as possible!! This is very important especially if you ware doing mechcanials or characters, you will find glitches and wonky lines which are very hard to paint out.

3. Unwrap the Low polygon base mesh. You can do this before the high polygon mesh which might help woth displacement maps in zbrush bu I honestly haven't tried.

4. Normal mapp your pet rock. I like to use Kaldera and haven't played with Max 7's normal mapping funtionality. Try to normal map at double the intended resolution. My settings for kaldera are Ray ofset - usually 3-5 (depending on the type of model. you will need to scale it up and down to get it right though.) Anti aliasing - I'd like to set it at 3 or 4 but sometimes it takes forever to do it so I usually render at 2 if im doing a large 2048 map. and Skirt Filter at 1-2.

5. Take the normal map into photoshop and create a new layer. Use the snudge tool set to about 60-70% and 80% hardness to smudge out glitches. View your normal map in your 3D software and see if there are any parts that look funny. Most things happen around places where the ray has clipped another part of the high mesh (if that makes any sence). EG: I have a hand near the leg, i normal map it and the hand is now imprinted on the leg. Too close to the ray of the leg. Either break the hand away and normal map it seperately or paint it out.

6. You can paint your texture using the normal map. Use the normal map as a slight overlay to see where your detail is and you can paint the texture accordingly.

7. Use the Nvidia photoshop plugin to create a normal map from your texture. It will save it out as a .DDS and then just apply this as an overlay on your normal map. Set it to an opacity of 40 - 50% depending on how intense it is and then flatten, then do another filter pass but normalise it only.

Then you have you normal mapped pet rock. :D

great job with the activity, I'm really glad other people are posting them! As an alternative to zbrush, when you simply don't have access to it on your box, I'd suggest max7 and 8 - here's how:

- chuck your viewport on faceted fullscreen (for speeds sake... also a quadro helps there [:D])
- set up your selection to lasso type
- map edit/editable poly keys for hide selected, unhide all, hide unselected, meshsmooth, paint/pull and relax (both of these, the paint deformation ones)
- bung on a edit poly modifier, or collapse to editable poly
- msmooth your mesh a few times, go into paint/pull and start playing around with brush settings to what you like (I usually have value=50,size=15,strength=0.1)
- when you're ready to start working on your mesh, select off areas you want to work on and hide everything else. This is again purely for speed boosts since that's its main bane. Other tips for improving speed... make sure you have one viewport, don't use wireframe, and buy a quadro [:)]

It works surprisingly well, barring the speed issues, even though it still isn't zbrush - on the other hand it's very nice to have the mesh paint/sculpt functionality native in max... no exporting or importing, and no crazy viewport controls.

I also forgot; please show your highpoly as well! I'd like to see how your highpoly went :D

!!! YIPEE !!!

Been looking forward to abit of Z brush ACTION....

haha, this should be fun!

here are some refrence picks
[url]http://images.google.com.au/images?svnum=10&hs=kDC&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&c…]

3ds max normal map tutorial [url]http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/normal_workflow.htm[/url]

great tutorial ... not so great webpage name[:X]

This activity needs more love [:(]

Perhaps rocks wasn't everyone's idea of fun :p

I love the idea. It's high on my todo list, especially as a friendly intro to normal mapping.
Oh so soon I hope.

Well, I'd thought Id give this a go,should be fun, Ive got to learn to walk before I run;-)
I havent done any normal mapping so I thought Id have a go, any way below is my wireframe of my rock, slightly rotated.

hehe, Onto unwrapping[?]

wish a newb luck.
[img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Attachment: [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Mr Garbage/200511364751_Rock_Wireframe.jpg"]Rock_Wireframe.jpg[/url]
41.77 KB

Hey Garbage! Nice work! :)

Don't be afraid to use up all 800 of the poly budget in making your rock. This is important as engines like Unreal 3 will have budgets like that for the medium sized rocks.

First of all thanks for this post that was done all that time ago!

It's been awhile since I touched 3D and thought I'd make a fresh start with normal mapping.

And umm yay...first attempt?

It's sorta frustrating really, I don't get Zbrush all too well and I was generally painting upside down cause it doesn't do what I want it to do!!!

Anywho after all these weird things happened to my model I just went back to real basics and saw if I could get the thing working in the first place. And finally through some tutorial help in CGTalk this happened!

[img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Attachment: [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/IronhideNT/2006318203_firstRocky…"]firstRockyay.jpg[/url]
7.9?KB

And I know it's working because when I change the position of the light the bumps change.

But now I'm thinking I could've done something better using plain old colour maps. It just looks so pixelly- and I subdivided the rock about 4 times from my original -

[img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Attachment: [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/IronhideNT/20063182315_wire.jpg"]wire.jpg[/url]
48.14?KB

And even at max subdivisions i click the create normal map button and nothing happens. So I'm forced to take it down a couple of notches?

The shader netowrk I downloaded from headus.com is great but also expects you to be a a texture dude genius and im in a"what do i do now?" mode - like where do I put the colour/spec map?

I know it's a stab in the dark question, but what am I doing wrong? Anyone know how normal mapping works between zbrush and maya? Maybe I haven't looked around enough for tutes...??

You could say I have lost a bit of motivation with the project. I think what you said really hit me lately, that it's just another sci-fi team based fps'er. And it is. And let's be honest, there's little chance that an UT2004 mod will get much real online playability by people out there, and I'd hate to see all our efforts put towards something that's simply not going to get played. And the effort to complete a polished sci-fi level is just too much for me, it's a bit too much to compete with todays expectations using such a small team.

I would suggest we rethink what we can do with a small team, and perhaps do a single player type of game. Something that doesn't need a tonne of assets and is something quite achievable. Maybe a Wind Waker type of platform game, or a Resident Evil 4 like zombie game that's just based in the woods with lots of fog or something (needs some trees/foliage assets and maybe some cabins [;)]. Or to take a leaf out of Saw's book (the recent movie written and directed by local Aussies on a budget), have the game in one fantastic looking location. [:)] Maybe a persons apartment? (shrug)

Anyway, what do you honestly want to create? I am all ears.

(yeh, I know, we did a darn sumea challenge for models etc)

I have nothing to give but excuses - and I know the exchange rate on them for actual results is pretty poor.

Remember how I said "as soon as I get my new computer" I can start some stuff. Erm. That kind of turned into an engagement ring so the computer's still pending [:)]

That said, I'd really like to keep working with the UT engine unless there's a good reason to change.

I like the idea of a coop or single player mod there aren't many of these and it could be done well. It would also be interesting to try and make it not based around weapons and the process of killing things, metaball is one example... but there are few others. One idea I had would like to try is where people play as some kind of half human, half flying fish thing flying around and completing either story or mission based objectives. We could also make a mulitplayer pinball game :D or various other things. A little zelda-style coop sort of game would also be quite fun.

Anyway, first of all we should take careful consideration about changing the entire project and take a good look at the benifits of starting a new one vs continuing the current (which should be a decision made by everyone involved). Secondly we need to really plan what we're going to try to achieve, and try and do it in a more organized way... this probably means a design doc and all the other nessicary evils. We'll probably also need to find more people and assign dedicated roles too.

Finally, I'm currently looking around for a job... and if I can impress these companies I may be getting one quite soon, which will take a rather large chunk out of my time. That said I'll still try to make as much time as possible for the project however I'm not sure it would be good idea for me to take a project management role for this as I may become unavailable due to other obligations at inopportune times.

i was never going to be hugely dedicated to it anyway, since i work full time and when i'm not at work either do my own work (which would then included work for the project) or something other than 3D.

that said i'm happy to keep working on it, though i think the following things should be considered:

1. we should consider a design that allows us to use the artwork already created for it (i.e. the modeller challenge) if possible

2. we should consider the depth and complexity of the project, as it is likly to be slow moving (since few people will be able to dedicate full time to it). I would recommend something small and simple, something achievable with a small team, with other commitments, and a broad range of skills - from beginner to profesional, perhaps something that can be expanded on if people find they have more time or more people join. and perhaps the ablility to add further levels or features through updates.

3. if we are realy serious about this then there should probably be a design doc written up and updated as progress is made. And someone should take up a management role to allot tasks and keep everything organised and on track.

yeah, my enthusiaum died out a little based on that it was kinda generic and not that original. Especially with that Dystopia(?) mod that had lots of glowy bits visually.

Though in the mean time my 3d skills have improved so Im willing to do some character models, I cant animate them however.

Ok so i get the feeling everyone wants to try to do something simpler, that is both original and makes use of as much existing asset content as is physically possible.

I think we should start a new project ideas thread and recruitment thread at this stage to get the ball rolling and pick up a few more people. Though this time we should specify roles for people at the recruiting stage. That should allow us to allocate tasks to people more easliy and avoid the "what do i do now?" problem.

So is anyone still interested in this?

I liked Souri's suggestion of a RE4 type horror/mod, could be cool.

Yeh, I reckon the RE4 type of mod would be cool. We just have to remember to start out small scalled and expand on that. In its simplest form, the game could work (asset wise) with one main character, one zombie model, their animations, one simple level, and the required Unreal script editing. Then we can expand on that with more zombies, detailed environments, game design etc.

I also have another idea which I don't think I've seen a mod do is to do a Super Sprint kind of top view racing game. Use the Unreal Engines vehicle physics for a racing game. Using the small scaled idea, it requires at least one car model, a track, and the required Unreal script editing. It's possible to do with one artist and one programmer, but is open for a lot more people to join in on to do their own tracks and cars. The possibilities for the tracks and visuals would be tremendous with the Unreal engine. Deep canyons, maybe a Sumea town etc. I don't think there are any commercial games doing the Super Sprint kind of game for a long time. And I think it would be cool if everyone could do their own low polygon vehicle too.

Anyway, I'm sure everyone has their own ideas on what they want to do, so please do express them here. The last thing I want is for everyone to just go along with what I say and not really want to do it. [;)]

I just finished RE4 and so I'm feeling extra good about that idea.

Perhaps we just make a game like the minigame you get when you finish, ie: 'The Mercenaries'.
You get a time limit, and a bunch of increasingly difficult zombies to kill. Start with just a 1player game and plan to make it both co-op and competitive at some stage.

Requirements would be just as souri suggested - 1 player, 1 zombie, 1 level + scripting.

Anyone awake? [;)] Anyway, I think I will tackle the racer game on my own - it's something small that I can attempt on my own (apart from the scripting). My plan is to get 2 low-poly cars done and a track to race in. Pretty simple. If anyone is interested, you can pretty much do the same thing to contribute. Create 2 low-poly cars and a track yourself. It's probably best that I get mine finished first (bare in mind that I have a few new sections in the works on Sumea, and other stuff to do [:X])so people can get a jist of what's going on.

The zombie game would take a bit more effort from more people to get something reasonable but if anyone is interested in getting that off the ground, please go for it!

Sounds pretty good, give me a yell when you need the coding to start.
Though given the amount of time I have free, I'll only be able to do stuff on weekends.

I've just overhauled Sumea comments, and I'm currently trying to get a new section up asap, but as soon as that's done, I'm hoping to be going full ball into this. I think maybe we can consider doing it as a commercial title with the UE engine as a prototype. Maybe work on getting working on the Serenity engine for the PSP. Serenity already has code for handling vehicles etc, so it should be easy to get going for this kind of game.

To be honest souri, the coding involved in an engine migration is nearly as big a job as starting from scratch. Especially considering that unrealscript is an engine specific language.
A small scale modular project, like a mini-racing game is a good idea but i'd really strongly urge the idea to keep it as a mod. Mods are much easier and faster to develop than a game completely from scratch.
Also, for various reasons (mainly timewise and legal) people may be unable to work on the game if it becomes a commercial project.

Haha that's a neat idea.
Skinless man would make a good wallpaper (the banner at the top of this page).
And by good I mean likely disturbing. Although I wouldn't mind the handy reference image.

I'll make up a little normal mapping activity someone in the near future. Something really simple like (as I have mentioned in my blog) I'll even write up a small tutorial! [:D]

For some reason I just had a dumb idea where you could design a maze or some kind of quick nice looking puzzle. Where's Wally that you have to circle in paint or something.

I just thought I'd share that brainfart. [:P]

Scott.

Yeah, let?s get some new activities. [:)]

A couple of ideas;

Maybe something where we progress on the same asset a little each activity? Though that sounds a bit like a modelling challenge. Speaking of which, it?s been expressed before that some people might be interested in mini modelling challenges. It could be fun to model and texture something over a short timeframe.

Also, maybe some kind of simple animation activity might be fun to try? Everyone uses the same model, and animates a cycle over 48 hours or something?

Hazards portrait idea worked well, maybe something like that again might work?

I like the look of E, it gives the impression of serious firepower.
Just an idea... instead of a traditional scope, maybe a digital scope on the side?

Like a small screen showing a zoomed in view?

i like the idea of all weapons being laser based - so we can have lots of flashing glowy lights and streaks during combat. also a sniper rifle looks really cool with a really long barrel (in my oppinion that is). and i like screen idea as opposed to a scope.

quote:Originally posted by Makk

Like a small screen showing a zoomed in view?

Yeah,
for the view model I can arrange a texture of the player's viewport to available to be used in it's materials.

If we could rig the material up so that the view weapon model shows exactly what the player sees when they're zoomed in (2d overlays etc), that would be ideal.

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire
I like the idea of all weapons being laser based - so we can have lots of flashing glowy lights and streaks during combat.

I'll get to work on some new effects then. I've got a few flashy ideas :)

You've certainly got a knack for gun designs [:D]. They all look great, and I like E also. It looks most futuristic of them all, and I agree, a digital scope on the side would be awesome [:D].

when you switch to a zoomed view with the rifle, you would want it to fill most, if not all of the screen so you can see what your shooting at. i would think, just like other games when you switch toa zoomed view, the scren just 'cuts' to the view. we could easily do the same, and the view is just overlayed with effects to make it look like a screen - could even give it a border.
then the texture on the gun model need only be a blurry representation without any real-time detail in it.

otherwise, it is possible in UT to set up cameras to capture footage and play them in textures. however they show only the static environment, and not any real-time action (alsmost as if they were pre-rendered). so we would need to find a way around that (or do it a differnt way all together), and also have the camera not be static, but interactive.

That's not entirely true. Using scriptedtextures with an associated callback event in unrealscript you can render the scene to a texture from any view you want.
I don't think this is possible using just unrealed's material editor, as it requires extra code for the rendering callback. It also increases scene complexity... but it's doable. I've recently used it to create a crappish far-away-blur effect [:D]

thought i should point out, curtins sniper rifle allready has orthographics and snow flakes had a go at modelling it http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2848&whichpage=2

btw B looks pretty cool, goes as my fave

oh crap!
I had just finished the basic concept for it too-

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Makk/2005535571_sniper_rifle_02…]

lol, its a very nice design, maybe u could alter it into a rifle or something?
also it needs some glowy bits

Nice concept sketch :)
do you have any ideas as to what it should look like in use (Especially ideas for the firing/muzzle/impact effects)? , as the current plan for this weapon is that it will make it's user's location well known when fired.

I've duplicated the sniper rifle class from UT into the sumea package, although it's a bit messed up still... it's something that we can attach the model to when we get a prototype model ready.

i wouldnt nescarily abandon this makk, we may want a different model for the other team or some such.

looks like I forgot to crop that image!

Kezza, nope havent thought about that, just focused on the look of the weapon.
That reminds me, are you (or anyone else) able to port this into UT? You can add any shaders/effects, etc to the model as you see fit. I dont have enough time to familiarise myself with the engine, just getting it modelled and mapped is going to be a big enough challange as it is.

Well, I'll leave it for now. I did a quick sketch for an assult type rifle and a medic gun. I will post them when I can get them scanned. Should be soon.

Agreed,
each team will need different weapons too i think.

I'll be able to import it into ut, but I may need some help with texturing if we're going to apply sexy realtime effects to the gun's materials.

Very nice work there, keep it up.

heavy smoke effects - i like the ideaof that. imaging firing of a barrage of morters and then rushing the enemy as they are covered in smoke and cant see what's comming (and i guess neither can you, but just fire wildly into the smoke i guess). anyway, my point is lasting smoke from large or many explosions would make for an interesting gameplay element that i havnt seen in namy games before. i remeber goldeneye did it, and it made deathmatches interesting when you cant see the other player through the smoke.

Lots of lasting smoke in Call of Duty is a very very useful tactic when trying to capture objectives. Really peeves snipers.

Kez, I'm a big big fan of the idea - and the implementation looks fantastic.

thats brill! itll be cool to see that with its own model

I did a build and ran the .bat, but couldn't find this weapon on the heavy. [:(]

quote:Originally posted by Souri

I did a build and ran the .bat, but couldn't find this weapon on the heavy. [:(]

That's really odd...
did you check that the SVN update was successful?
were there any compile errors or anything?

I think it should be renamed from the HAM Lanucher to the HAMilL

:)

quote:Originally posted by mcdrewski

I think it should be renamed from the HAM Lanucher to the HAMilL

:)

Maybe... but considering this is a total conversion mod, I think we really should try and cut all ties with the look and feel of UT2k4

personally i like the HAM launcher :P *mental images of firing live pigs out of a shoulder mounted gun*

Yeah HAM is great, It was a misplaced starwars joke... :)

quote:Originally posted by MoonUnit

personally i like the HAM launcher :P *mental images of firing live pigs out of a shoulder mounted gun*

i can arrange something like that... i have a surplus of unused nali cows here [:D]

Hey what other weapons do we need?
I wouldnt mind having a go at modelling some as it would be a nice little excercise to keep me busy.
I know we need a sniper rifle, is anyone doing that? If not, I can start on that.

Check out the [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2820"]advanced mod ideas thread[/url] for weapons required, and go for it!

The HAM Launcher is brilliant man, looks great.

not sure if u saw my other post but are animal mounts (as vehicles) with their own skeleton etc. possible within the capabilities?

quote:Originally posted by conundrum

not sure if u saw my other post but are animal mounts (as vehicles) with their own skeleton etc. possible within the capabilities?

it's very possible (ceiling turrets in assualt are good examples of vehicles with skeletal structure and animation).

I'm still onfused as to what the gameplay will be like. are we talking fast UT style action where everyone strafes around everywhere, or are we talking slower, more strategic COD style? i'm assuming it wont be fast UT style, as that would elliminate a lot of the stradegy gained from classes and clas interaction as players simply strafe and jump about (even assult maps in UT, the most like our mod, is like this).

so i'm assuming it will be slower ala teh many WWII style games. but how slow? are we talking very low health, or more health so you can take a beating? i think it should be somewhere in between these two extremes. make movement and action slower so you can have more stradegy and teamwork (holding ground, attackers advancing strategicaly, coverts able to sneek up on players cos they ARNT running and jumping all over the place). but i would giev them more health than the almost one hit kill style WWII games, but not as much as UT. also i would make movement a little more faster and agile. basicaly so there is pleanty of fast action (so you dont have to crawl accross the map to get into possition) but still a huge emphasis on stradegy (slow enough so that you cant rush across open ground at the enemy).

hard to say exactly what i mean.

comments? what were you originally thinking Souri?

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire

I'm still onfused as to what the gameplay will be like. are we talking fast UT style action where everyone strafes around everywhere, or are we talking slower, more strategic COD style? i'm assuming it wont be fast UT style, as that would elliminate a lot of the stradegy gained from classes and clas interaction as players simply strafe and jump about (even assult maps in UT, the most like our mod, is like this).

so i'm assuming it will be slower ala teh many WWII style games. but how slow? are we talking very low health, or more health so you can take a beating? i think it should be somewhere in between these two extremes. make movement and action slower so you can have more stradegy and teamwork (holding ground, attackers advancing strategicaly, coverts able to sneek up on players cos they ARNT running and jumping all over the place). but i would giev them more health than the almost one hit kill style WWII games, but not as much as UT. also i would make movement a little more faster and agile. basicaly so there is pleanty of fast action (so you dont have to crawl accross the map to get into possition) but still a huge emphasis on stradegy (slow enough so that you cant rush across open ground at the enemy).

hard to say exactly what i mean.

comments? what were you originally thinking Souri?

I was thinking that we'd have it a bit like this :
- the covert class would be about as fast as a normal UT player, but with lots of moves.
- the support class would be slower, similar to COD or WolfET. Probably without all the super agile wall jumping moves... or at least not able to do them much before getting tired.
- the heavy class should have the same top speed, but far less acceleration/deceleration. Perhaps the top speed could be a bit higher and allow a heavy to carry another player on it's back.

It's something that probably needs to be playtested before we can say how the gameplay will be affected for sure. But we definatley don't want the deathmatch-style speed destroying any kind of strategy.

Kezza pretty much has it on the ball. I agree, I prefer it kinda like ET and not the incredibly fast/twitch fest kinda game that UT is, or the incredibly slow/low health/quick kills that you see in the other side of the spectrum.

Anyway, Kezza's ideas listed in the first post are awesome, and I reckon it'll make for a very cool game. [:D]

Just a reminder that another summary of the mod ideas is at the [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2686"]Sumea Mod State thread[/url] which was posted previous to this one. It's got some ideas that are pretty cool.

cool, i was hoping people wern't seeing this as a super-twitchy game. what you've described there Kezza is what i was thining, so cool.

Yeh, I'm not really into the fast paced twitch-fest that Unreal Tournament 2k4 (and Quake 3 et al) is, particularly the player vs player deathmatch/capture the flag modes. The problem is that most of the time when you encounter a fight, you and your opponent are jumping around like crazy and real fast too, so it becomes a guessing/prediction game as to where your opponent is landing/jumping next and hitting them with some splash damage. Also put in the fact that some of the weapons are really powerful, so you're likely to get gibbed real fast.
That's probably why UT2k4 Assault sucked so much. Some of the weapons are too powerful and everyone has them with a fair bit of ammo too. When you had all these players trying to get to one lever or through one choke area, and everyone has rocket launchers etc, it turns into spam fest that you can't strategically get around.

So yeh, things will have to be changed for the mod - slow the running speed down a bit, lower the jump heights, powerful weapons/rocket launchers need powering up or have a real limited supply of ammo etc. I'm sure we'll be doing a lot of tweaking and testing to get right.

"- The covert's sniper rifle is very loud, has a long reload time for each shot and the location that the rifle was fired from appears on the maps for both teams. This is intended to make sure that the primary "sniper" role of the game is filled by having a support player marking targets for the heavy's rockets and mortar. The covert's long range role is intended as a counter-sniper to break sniper seiges."

I like the idea from the next Unreal Tournament where the smoke from the sniper rifle will impair zoomed vision for a few moments. The suggested reload time will help in breaking sniper sieges, and the smoke would also do a good job at helping the enemy spot the sniper location. It will also make the first shot really count for snipers.

Allright here is a concept, and while the art examples are definetly not mine, it may give you an idea for a similar style. The gameplay elements and core concept are mine and will give a consistent and contextual reasons for the classes. My idea is for COMBAT EXOSUITS, and I dont mean power armor, I mean something you climb in around 10 feet tall max. You control the things through a neural interface and are essentially strapped in, and cyberjacked in. The inside of the suits are filled with a nanobath solution and the pilot uses a breathing apparatus and has enviromental controls. Now make the Exosuits modular, so essentially you have variants and different chassis types, which makes them costumizable to a point, varied, and still within a reasonable context. They are then airdropped or deployed onto the battlefield, they have enviromental control so you can put them in any enviroment, which could make for some wild settings. Make three different named chassis types, Light, Medium, and Heavy. Each chassis type has a certain amount of attachments and certain types of weapons it can mount and depending on the chassis and variant will also determine how visible he is to others on thier radar. Here is an example.

Light Exosuit (Hellbat)

Hellbat Mk1 "Striker"

Light Machine gun (Arm mounted)
Enhanced sensor suit, (IR, Night Vision, Improved radar)
Artillery designator
Light Railgun (Shoulder mounted)

Hellbat Mk2 "Ninja"

Light machine gun (arm mounted)
Enhanced sensor suit, (IR, Night Vision, Improved radar)
Visual distortion cloak
Computer hacking interface
Spider mines (deployable chaser mines)

Hellbat Mk3 "Kestrel"

Light machine gun (Arm mounted)
Enhanced sensor suit, (IR, Night Vision, Improved radar)
Jump pack
Emp grenades (Interferes with enemy sensors and energy weapons)
Light rocket pack (Shoulder mounted)

I think you can get the idea where you can go with this, they are all light types but have their own flavor. When an exosuit is destroyed, despite just being fun to watch explode, they can also leave a modular weapon behind, if it fits the chassis size it can be picked up and affixed to a similar chassis. Remember that they are in nanobaths in the suits, so some variant can have an emergency reserve kit (medpack essentially)where they can walk up to another exosuit and heal them. The possibilities for all kinds of variants are there and teamplay can be brought to a new level because while there is a uniqueness to each that suits the players tastes, they fufill distinct roles. Ill add more if this gets any attention, medium exosuit will be a mix between mobility and have the unique support role, medic, engineer etc., heavy will be slower with things like artillery and heavy cannons etc., etc. The variants and possibilitys are pretty large. Here is some concept art, (not mine), but may give a style and direction, I myself like the fact that the technology looks realistic and not over the top, I am not a fan of silly over the top art style. Here you go.

[img]C:Documents and SettingsMikeMy DocumentsMy Picturessumea forumartHellbat mk2 ninja.gif[/img]

Here is another
[img]C:Documents and SettingsMikeMy DocumentsMy Picturessumea forumartcloseup.gif[/img]

Some close ups and size comparisons
[img]C:Documents and SettingsMikeMy DocumentsMy Picturessumea forumartSize comparison2.gif[/img]

[img]C:Documents and SettingsMikeMy DocumentsMy Picturessumea forumartSize comparison.gif[/img]

An open hatch
[img]C:Documents and SettingsMikeMy DocumentsMy Picturessumea forumartopen hatch.gif[/img]

A pair of lights
[img]C:Documents and SettingsMikeMy DocumentsMy Picturessumea forumartPair1.gif[/img]

Here are some heavysmedium flying
[img]C:Documents and SettingsMikeMy DocumentsMy Picturessumea forumartHeavy type.gif[/img]

[img]C:Documents and SettingsMikeMy DocumentsMy Picturessumea forumartHeavy pair.gif[/img]

[img]C:Documents and SettingsMikeMy DocumentsMy Picturessumea forumartHeavy exosuit.gif[/img]

Please tell me what you think, Again I reiterate the art is not original but I like the look and feel and can be modifiedimitated it seems believable to me, and not to crazy.

I assume models similar to ones above are possible with the engine?

I cant see any of the pics ?

Upload the pictures somewhere Ratmilk, your just linking them to your computer folders.

Ok Ill see if this fixes it

[img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Attachment: [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Ratmilk/200561213422_closeup.GIF"]closeup.GIF[/url]
89.56 KB

Having trouble figuring this out, but here is another attempt.

Insert Image: [img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Ratmilk/2005612134935_Pair1.GIF[…]

Insert Image: [img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Ratmilk/200561213422_closeup.GIF…]

yes, pics are now visible

Well...Impressions?

You know, we actually have a competition going on to cover the player model side of things [;)]

Hey, lookn good [:D]

I've merged the work from yesterday and a code template for player classes called "regularengine" and turned it into a standard gametype... so now the normal ut2004 menu supports it
If anyone want's to try it out: http://kez.dontknowdontcare.com/misc/temp/Sumea.rar

You just dump that in your ut2k4 directory... either start the mod using the -mod=Sumea command line switch or in the community tab from the menu. The new gametype *should* appear in the gametypes menu.
-The gameplay is self explanitory except you change class by right clicking when you're dead.
-I rewrote the radar, it's now more useful because it shows what team each object is.

I've now implemented class based strafe speed limiting and a 3rd person camera for the covert class (when using melee weapons).
Latest version is now on the repository... remember to rebuild your copy of the mod after you download it.

There are a few problems with this
- when not using a melee weapon, it's not possible to view the covert class in behindview while they're walking/running/falling/standing
- the viewing direction still dictates the vertical aiming of the player in 3rd person, i'm not sure what's causing this... but i may have to implement a different kind of 3rd person camera system to avoid it.
- players can still change class after respawning by opening the class chooser and then (double?) clicking on anything but class chooser gui. The Simple fix for this will be that the menu will close on respawn, assuming they hit cancel.

I had issues last time I was trying to build due to ucc make being unable to build OnslaughtBP, but I was thinking I'd do a UT2004 reinstall before I dug too deep. [:P] Kez, off the top of your head, do we need any of the UT2k4 source packages to build the mod?

Sorry, my bad...
Because Sumea.ini was built on my machine it's adding everything in the editpackages list from my Ut2004systemUt2004.ini file, these extra packages are unrelated.
I'll upload a fixed ini set now, and some changes to the batch files

Edit: fixed, the problem was also that my UnrealScript editor was editing Sumea.ini. I changed the script so that Sumea.ini is automatically deleted before a build (it gets remade from default.ini), and removed it from the repository (because in practice it's a build output).

Ok, I've now checked in Kezza's "Mod Skeleton" and my placeholder map.

Hence, The best way to use this is to check out the repository as a subdirectory called Sumea under your UT2004 directory.

Using TortiseSVN (http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/) this is done by creating a 'Sumea' subdirectory under your base UT2004 directory, then right-clicking in there and selecting the 'checkout' menu option. Enter the repository name:

[code]
svn://meeze.homeip.net/Sumea/trunk
[/code]

(and then you'll need your username/password that I've given you, of course)

If you do this, you easily grab the latest repository at any time using right click in the directory and selecting the 'update' menu item.

I'm assuming that if you're using command-line svn, you'll be ok, but just in case:

[code]
cd c:UT2004
svn checkout svn://meeze.homeip.net/Sumea/trunk Sumea
[/code]

Keep getting timeouts trying to get Tortoise Version 1.1.3.2502 for NT4/Win2k/XP [:X]

...if you're still having problems, try my [url="http://www.meeze.com/sumeamod/TortoiseSVN-1.1.3-UNICODE_svn-1.1.3.msi"]completely unauthorised mirror[/url]

I've just uploaded tons-o-changes(tm) to the head version. Radar, player classes... etc.

Also added batch files so that people can quickly start the mod,
and also can build the runtime binaries and export the cacherecords if they're not familiar with UCC.

Give me a yell if you want to have a little "multiplayer testing" sometime [:D]

Is the repository down?
i can't even ping meeze.homeip.net right now...

should be up - but you won't be able to ping it no matter what since my firewall drops all ICMP traffic. I'll look into it.

okay. try now. I Blame either DynDNS.org or Linksys, but most likely DynDNS.org...

To explain in case it happens again - "homeip.net" is a dynamic DNS domain managed by a company called DynDNS.org. My firewall/router should magically update the dynamic DNS address of 'meeze.homeip.net' every time Bigpond decides to expire my IP address and make me change it. For some reason DynDNS had the wrong IP address in it's databases.

Thanks Kez! That was my next job after I'd completed the map I just posted!

I'm looking at setting up either a CVS or SubVersion repository at some point (I guess it'd be best hosted here, but otherwise I can host on my own webspace or on my cable box at home)...

Souri, is there any chance of hosting CVS or SVN repositories on the sumea site? I'd be happy to manage them, but I'm no guru on internet-facing scc systems so it may open up some security risks.

I've never set up CVS or Subversion, but I'll give it a shot. Which package do you prefer? I'm guessing SVN?

No preference at all. I know CVS pretty well, but I hear good things about SVN for assets etc...

Ok, I had a look into it, Subversion or CVS is a no go. I'm on an NT server (SubVersion requires you to use Apache 2 and special modules), and I can't run server applets or run server applications on Sumea anyway since I'm on a shared hosting plan. I could do what I did with Paint Chat and run the service on my computer, but my computer is down most of the time so it wouldn't be very useful.

The only way is to find a free version control application that's perhaps entirely web based using a database with no server module required, or something else like this which uses ftp: http://www.prestosoft.com/ps.asp?page=fvc_ftpvc#2 or http://www.ftpvcs.org

thanks souri... either of those two sound good actually - guess we'd just need the ftp space and accounts (which might be an issue)

I'd prefer SVN greatly, especially since we're going to see lots of deleted and moved directories in this project (which CVS can't handle with very well)

for this i currently use a local linux box running apache2 which is quite stable, however i'm only running optus cable and i'm not keen on having that being used for hosting anything but source code.

I know some people with reliable hosting who might be able to help out in this regard if no one else has an easy solution.

Well, FTPVC requires payment, and FTPVCS seems to be having crashing problems for me. :/

OK. The other options are:

1) CVS on SourceForge. Free but open to the world to view/download and use in their own nefarious ways [if indeed we can get anyone outside to care :)]
PRO: Free, Reliable, Tested
CON: Must be GPL, All files are open to the world, even at 0.1 stage (thins includes models, textures, maps etc.)

2) Source monkey. I set up a repository and get emails/uploads from people every day, and promise to integrate them and upload the tree at least once a week.
PRO: Fairly simple
CON: Long turnaround on getting things done. People have to wait for me to do stuff.

3) I pull out my linux CDs at home and set up an SVN server on my telstra cable box.
PRO: Running all the time and fairly secure I guess.
CON: No admin/backups, at the whim of Telstra's policies. (I could auto back-up nightly at 4am via FTP to somewhere else to solve #1.) Also, not set up yet.

I kind of suggest #1. We're looking to do this for professional exposure/experience anyway. I've got a fair amount of experience in CVS so I'm willing to step up to solve any of the renaming issues that arise (which really aren't any more complex than a remove/add at the end of the day.)

That being said, I'm willing to chip in "some" money if we can find a managed SVN hosting plan somewhere. Googling, I find that http://www.projxpert.com/UpgradeOptions.aspx has "free" SNV hosting for 5M space (!) and 2 active developers, and US$86/yr for 30M space and up to 7 devs. I would hope that others would chip in also though, which might be a barrier to getting people involved.

You should go with #3 - (or if that's not the best option for you, I might give it a try, with the proviso that maps will have to be stored somewhere else. Those darn things would take most of the space/bandwidth.)

If it's just for sourcecode and other small files, I already have a apache2-SVN server we could use.
It's on it's own machine which is pretty much a clean install of ubuntu with apache2 & SVN installed, so it's quite stable/secure.

As a matter of fact i've been using it for the Sumea mod already :)

as i've posted elsewhere - the SVN server is up and ready for people to use... :)

He beat me to it by a day or so :)

I've been mulling over the coding side of things for a while now, and it seems we really have the following requirements that we need to get done. This is not just for programmers, this is the nuts and bolts of how the mod will work. However, it's up to the programmers to make it work, it'll be the bit that we point to and scream our wretched mantra - "Scope creep! Scope creep!".

I think we need to talk this through, then we can start putting together a more detailed set of requirements and divvying up the work.

Menus

• Pre-game class selector
  - Allow people to select classes (and perhaps weapon loadout)
  - heavily graphical - can display cinematics or models...
• Pre-game objective display
  - Describe map objectives
  - Possibly use a loading screen for each map?
• Intra-game class selector
  - Allow people to select new class to spawn as when they next respawn
  - light textual/symbolic, quick to use.
• Intra-game objective display
  - At-a-glance summary of objectives
  - perhaps use maps to select 'waypoints' for HUD...
• Post game scores
  - Show objectives satisfied etc.
  - (pet hate) show time in-game and results even for people who have since disconnected.

HUD

• Radar
  - Show team postition (except when cloaked?)
  - Show opponent postition when certain condiditons met
• Team/objective status
  - show team health in realtime, MMO group style?
  - show path to selected waypoint a-la UT's CTF?

Classes

• Common
  - Weapon/Object pickup restrictions based on class
  - Trigger/Objective restrictions based on class
  - speed varies by class
  - armor level/efficiency varies by class
  - default weapon loadout varies by class
• Heavy special abilities
  - firing on remotely 'marked' targets.
  • homing missiles - fire and forget; or
  • artillery target crosshair appears in hud, and player has to line up to fire
• Support special abilities
  - spawn ammo packs
  - construct (spawn) defenses
  - disable (destroy) defenses
• Covert
  - cloak/camouflage
  - heal team member
  • using specific weapon?
  • using "anytime" skill/proximity? (ie: can the covert heal a guy next to him while sniping?)

  - 'hack' systems. (ie: activate trigger)

Maps

• Objective Vehicle spawning and respawning
  - triggered? (ie: call for vehicle from dropship)
  - timed? (ie: vehicle spawns every minute if no vehicle on map?)
• Objective satisfaction
  - for vehicles-to-area maps, an objective is met via proximity?
• Team effect triggers
  - trigger radar tower such that enemies appear in your team`s HUD.

Weapons

Probably the easy bit - we know they'll be limited to individual classes - we just need to work out what they are and what they do!

I should be able to help out. Would mean I would have to buy it. That may be a few more weeks as I just shelled out for school fees and books. As for time I would not want to take anything too "major" on for myself as I would hate to let others down if I was not able to complete the tasks. That having been said I have done some basic GUI/HUD stuff and would not mind taking that on again. I have not done anything like a radar before where it would show other members or AI positions so that could be a bit of a challenge....

I am curious - do they have gui editors as part of the engine? Is it 2D or 3D?

I really can't answer, but it looks like there's some 2d helper functionality.
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/Interactive_GUI

i've got mutators that show enemy possitions on the map, so the code mustn't be to hard to find somewhere in the editor if you just want to rip out epic's...

on that note: pretty much all the game code is in the editor, so you can just make classes from that rather than write your own stuff where possible. dunno if that's the terminology, i'm not a coder [:)]

Pretty much a lot of things have already been done before. It may be even worth looking into what other mods have done with similar things. eg Unreal XMP with character classes etc. There's a wealth of information on the net, so I'm sure you can find answers somewhere.

Like what was mentioned earlier, this stuff can be done now. You can use unreal's assets as temporary placeholders for, say, guns or player models if you want to modify the gun aspects or character classes..

Good to see you guys have remembered sound :) I'm afraid there is no way I have time...

if anyone one wants a little practice with modifing unreal script i need a little help with my samus model. i need to make it so the weapon is invisible for this character only (so it looks like she's shooting out of the arm cannon).

Hmmm, I might just get my UT2004 stuff reinstalled... :)

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire

if anyone one wants a little practice with modifing unreal script i need a little help with my samus model. i need to make it so the weapon is invisible for this character only (so it looks like she's shooting out of the arm cannon).

Might be a bit hard,
you'd probably need to run a mutator on the server you're using that model on for this effect.

That aside, I'll probably start by playing around with some more stuff... maybe the radar, not sure what's involved in that yet though.

OK Y'all - we have a Subversion repository for the mod set up - so we're kind of starting to get our act together!

Excellent stuff, dude.. I probably won't be needing to use the repository just yet, since I'm working on a map which is kinda disconnected from everything else. Would be useful for the programmers who are setting up the game/doing the scripting though!

I'd really suggest doing it anyway - you don't have to commit your map until you're happy with it, but it's good for everyone to be on the same page.

sounds good to me. would get a lot of content for the game that way.

however i am not very good at concepts, and i was hoping to be able to model off someone elses concept for the mod. would i still be able to do this if there were an extra concept lying around?

I think it?s a great idea. It could really get some enthusiasm for the mod happening. It would be difficult to organise though. Lets see, what are some possibilities (sorry for writing so much, but I felt like brainstorming):

Create 3 models ? one of each class?

Or maybe create a character and a vehicle?

Maybe the challenge could have a couple of categories, like characters and vehicles? This could make an easier challenge category, like make a single vehicle, and a more difficult challenge category, like make 3 character models, one of each class. I think that could result in a wider spectrum of work being created.

Like Souri said, the top few concepts could become the base/guide/inspiration for the challenge. In fact, this would be essential in keeping the challenge entries to a similar style. But at the same time, it would be good to encourage challengers to try new concepts based on the style of the base concept designs. So maybe don?t make the challengers stick rigidly to the original base concepts, but have those concepts more as an inspiration? Also, if everyone made models from the same couple of concepts, the challenge could get a bit repetitive.

Another possibility is whatever the actual challenge is, the final submission requires a render of a scene which include a certain number of environmental assets? So each challenger can chose from a list which assets they want to make, and include them in the final scene render with their challenge creation.

Of course one problem with all this is that challenge winners would need to submit their creations (the actual models, not just the renders), which people don?t always like doing. Plus there could be a lot of wasted effort if people who don?t win the challenge don?t get their creations in the mod. Maybe a possible solution to that is to put every complete entry in the mod?

Another idea: after the modelling challenge, we could have an animation challenge? Again it faces the same problems as the modelling challenge for Sumea mod would face, but it would (hopefully) create a wide range of animation assets.

I think giving people the option of selecting a pre-existing concept or creating their own is the best way to go. It does not inhibit those who like to create their own stuff, nor does it penalize those who are not confident in their abilities to concept. A character and a vehicle could be a good way to do, but multiple characters (3) will severely restrict your number of entrants, and I don?t think it?s a good idea.

Pantmonger

have each entrant do all three calsses would be a great way to make lots of different teams, and then people can be as original as they want in the cahracter design - so long as it conforms to the games art style and technical requirements of the game. however, like Pantmonger said it would probably put some people off as it is a LOT of work.

if we say that you have to make one of the three classes, conform to the technical guidlines, and art style - but can create any type of creature/design otherwise, that could work. that way they would all fit the game, and you would get a large variety. if you wanted to take it further so that teams are made up of matching units then perhaps take the top concepts (if there were say a robot concept, a human concept, and alien concept, etc) and say that the entries must be one of the three classes and also from one of these species, clans, whatever. that way, if you regulated it so everyone didnt just do one class from one species, you could get a variety that also makes up nice teams.

only probalem with that is it limits freedom a little.

mmmm....not that keen on this idea, dont really know why either.
I know we are struggling in the character design stages of the mod, but I think thats the one area that we will be able to do quite easily. As we have a lot of 3d artists here. What are we going to do for maps/coding/UI design, etc
Bah, ignore me. Its been a long day :/

Looking in the concepts thread, I think we have enough ideas and available talent to work the characters.

I agree we will need much more content in other areas. We've already done characters to death in the modeller challenge, and we've already covered the futuristic soldier theme as well, so there's no point in covering that again. It may be worth making the next challenge something different entrirely, like a level design competition. It's something that all modellers should be able to do.

perhaps modelling/animation? rather than a simple render we could go for an 'idle' animation (or walk/run cycle) and one attack?

Wasn't the plan for the next challenge to involve normal maps?

I think that including normal mapping would be alot more chalenging but in contrast you would have to extend the comp to maybe 5 or 6 months. Having a longer cometition time would be really handy to those people who don't get alot of free time.

This would definately be needed if you were going to make another 3 model challange again as the last one didn't allow for much time :(

But I suppose if you are using Unreal 2004 which dosen't include the ability to render normal maps, then it would kinda be pointless to add them in [:P]

Deus Ex 2 used the UT engine and incldued normal maps, so it must support it. though that might have been their own code they added.

a level design comp sounds good to. something different, though a lot of work too.

If you are able to lease the engine you can add whatever bells and whistles you want to it. But if you are only going to be using the Unreal editor to create a mod, then you can't use normal maps as it is not in the original engine.
Perhaps the HL2 can support slight normal mapping, but I think it needs to be looked into :)

I suspect that making the challenge a level design one would see much fewer completed entries, as would normal mapping, because of the time necessary to create such content. Actually, making it a 3 model challenge would probably also see few entries.

We still have all the people who want to be involved with the mod to create content for it, so it?s not like it?s essential for lots of content to come from the modelling challenge. I just think anything to help the mod along would be a good thing.

If the modelling challenge was to create a single character for Sumea mod, lots of people might get motivated to make and finish something that they would get to see in-game.

Of course there would then be the animation issue?

If you guys are serious about the mod then why not tie several comps into it.

Concept Challenge: Design 3 iterations of a team.(posed colour view and model sheet.)
1st, 2nd and 3rd prize designs are in the MOD, giving you 9 total ideas for next challenge.

3D challenge: Choose from the 3 sets of designs and model a whole set or choose 1 design and do 2 or 3 levels of LOD.

Animation Challenge: Animate a complete animation set for one of the winning 3D challenge characters.

You could even do seperate concept and 3D challenges for both vehicle and characters.

You know, that sounds like a pretty good idea. Having these stages as challenges instead of simply requesting submissions would have to see better results.

i dont know why none of us thought of that before! pluss then we can have more challenges!

I love the idea too... Do we normally dig up prizes for art challenges?

Ok, I think I need to really give this mod a real kick in the arse to get things moving. Making the next Sumea Modeller Challenge related to this mod will do it. I'm going to run with the idea I had in the first post of this thread.

Challenge will start on the 1st of April and finish 1st of July, so that's 3 months.. I will post the guidelines and specs for the challenge up in April and maybe get some prizes organised (fingers crossed).

ok... just wondering..
i dont know much about the unreal editor... briefly opened it..
i want to model the heavy guy.. and i really have this cool idea about creating a kinda weapons dock into the suit...
which would allow the character to dock the weapon itself straight into the suit..
i know this isnt how weapons are treated in unreal... is this a problem from the competition perspective.. and secondly.. if i were to this (because i really would like to) could i mod the model afterwards so that you guys can use it in the game if you want to...

also .. am wanting to put glowing bits... am i best of doing this through the unreal editor??.. i have use enviroment maps and stuff before... but would have to learn how to use them in the unreal engine??

not to sure what you mean about docking the weapon. do you mean the weapon is part of the suit or can be connected to it in some way? i dont see that being a problem. you would have to allow for different weapons to be docked though. but i think just make your own weapon and use that, then change it for the game afterwards. looking at the ideas so far i think any one that's going to go in the game will have to be 'fixed' for one reason or another. not that anyone is making mistakes, it's just that we dont really know any guidlines for actual use within the game yet and many people ahve a lot of diffent ideas that will screw with how weapons and animations work.

as for glowybits, if you just wantthem to be illuminated, it's as simple as painting a greyscale mask, the set up in the editor is resonably straight forward.

cheers for that LW..
i meant kinda like a big chunky socket extending out of one arm ... that different weopons could connect into.. rather than relying on the charatcer holding the weapon with their hand.. ..

i think i might play around with the unreal editor anyways... probably going to be a similar set up when the new engine comes out... and we all want our hands on that... :)

been tryingtoget a box into the unreal enviroment..

can tseem to save or export static mesh??

can anyone help..

tried all the links... must be doing something wrong??

error:

warning: No valid skin triangles digested (mesh may lack proper mapping or valid linkups)

Make sure you read and follow the exporter's instructions carefully. Most export plugins are quite unforgiving if they encounter anything they weren't directly made to deal with.

what software are you using?

using max5.1

it must be a setting thing.... although i think i have played with everything..

bought unreal 2004 with bonus disk... hopefully there will e something in there...

so are you trying to get the box in as a static mesh or as a character? if a character you need to use the actorX exporter from the udn, if it's just a static mesh you can simply export it as a ASCII formt from max's export menu. just check gemoetrym, normals, materials, and other such general stuff, and it should import straight into unreal no worries. characters are more complicated.

Are you exporting to .ASE format? Did you give the box a UVW map before you exported it?

hey guys..
sorry i havent read this post in ages..

i cant remember what format.. but i followed the book fairly closely..

doesnt matter anyway cos my unreal ed isnt working any more...i downloaded a new one... still doesnt work.. think i seriously have to clean out my machine..

i am pretty keen to get my sumea challenge into the engine.. so ill give it another go at a later date..

what is the story with the sumea challenge?.. will any of the characters make it into the mod?

The mod is in a bit of a hiatus at the moment.

Mind posting some screenies?
I dont have UT2k4.
btw, how would it run online with a 56k and athlon 1.5, radeon 9500 PRO 128MB and 256 ddr of ram?

ditto - for now. I'm ordering my new PC this week and will get ut2k4 when I do :)

Makk: i think you'll run it on your pc fine (though you might need to drop some details). as for the 56k, i connect at 32k on a 56k modem and, although jumpy, it's somewhat playable. [:?]

i'll check out the map as soon as i get UT2k4 installed again - i used to have it but that was a friends copy i had to give back. i'll going to buy the dvd edition as soon as i get a dvd rom (some time this week). hmm, funny how that's three of us now that are involved in this project but dont actually have the software!

Hehe, yeah, I don?t have it either. [:o)]
BUT, I?ve ordered a copy from EB and will pick it up by the weekend. Then I?ll probably spend the next week checking out all the mods and models and things that are around for it.

Picked it up today $50 for the DVD edition with the tuts on it.
Cant seem to download your map either, gives a file not found error

Same with me ? both in that I got the DVD edition for $50 today, and that I can?t download your map.

I've had a couple of online games; man I'm such a noob! I'm always hopeless at first though. Think I'll get some practice with the bots before trying again. - Or maybe I'll just give up playing and get to work modelling something..

well I don't have the problem of not having UT2004, I just have a problem with downloading the map file.. the link isn't working. I'll try again later today..

i cant download it either

Whoops.. try the link again.
Anyway, I've since had to redo the walkways properly in the map (with brushes and sticking with the grid).

i have UT2k4 now. just go my dvdrom and the dvd version with the tutes. awsome stuff but i feel a little ripped of cos i already had half of them from 3dbuzz anyway! pleanty of new ones to keep me happy though. i want to get to work on a map but i have to figure our what i'm doing with scootarama first before i know what i'm doing for each project.

downloading your map now souri, i'll check it out

EDIT: hmm, it's crashing on me. says it's probably due to my comp overheating or a corrupted instal, but other maps open fine. i'll try it again after i've shut down for a while just in case.

Click it again to download the new version. Just whacked on some textures on brushes to check out the lighting, and did some other small things.

I tried to run the map today..

I get this error:

Failed to enter I:SumeaCity1SumeaCity1.ut2: Can't find file for package 'VSOverride'

History: UGameEngine::Init <- InitEngine <- FMallocWindows::Free <- FMallocWindows::Free

trying to load it in unreal ed i got:
Assertion failed: Actors.Num()>=2 [File:c:ut2004buildut2-codeengineincUnLevel.h] [Line: 428]

have no idea what that means, and i don't suppose it's much help posting it, but there you go.

Yeah, I get a whole lot a gibberish too when I try to open it :(

Souri probably forgot to package the resources that the map is using, as well as any scripts or required extensions needed by the map.

Whoops, the VSOverride script isn't there. Do a search for the VSOverride actor on google and download it. I used it to put a test vehicle in a deathmatch map.

There'll probably be other errors too. [:X]

WooHoo! I got ut2k4 today! I'll try installing it on my work PC tomorrow and taking a look at the map.

Did I mention that I love working for a games company? [:)]

Pretty cool map so far Souri,

For those who need the model for Souris map you can download it here:

http://unrealtournament2004.filefront.com/file/VSoverride_ACTOR;27520

With that everything seemed to be working. I don't know if it was on perpose.. but I jumped into the vechicle and shot a heap of guys, 10 more of the vechicles rained down from the sky.. almost killed my computer :P

As for the map, maybe a little big. Looking at the people your trying to kill look tiny. Might also be cool to have the buildings around you to be alot higher As if you are in a huge city. I loved the water way, cool idea [:D] With things like street lights you might want to make them into static meshs just to be nicer on the engine.. Anyways great start :)

alright it's working!

certainly is big. cant wait to see it all come together once we have actualy gameplay and objectives.

i had the same vehicle problem. seems that as soon as you move the vehicle it spawns another in it's place - only it lands on top of the one yuo have just moved slightly - and so another trys to spawn cos the one that just spawned isnt in the default location, and so on. at least that's the best i can understand it from the few seconds it took for me to jump out and be crushed! considering that it might just be spawing them while the player is in the vehicle cos they stoped once i jumped out.

quote:With things like street lights you might want to make them into static meshs just to be nicer on the engine..

N00b question from me here, in UT - is a static mesh just a term for instanced geometry?

UT uses BSP geometry for most of it's construction of the basic level layout, however you can bring in static 3d meshes exported from other apps like 3dsmax. and you're right about them being instanced so it's superior to BSP in that respect, however they cannot receive shaddows and lighting is done per vertex (i think).

OK, looked at the .txt file that comes with the VSOverride actor.

quote:
In the actor, under the properties, there's an option called bRespawnVehicles. When this is set to true (it's true by default), your vehicle factories (as long as it's ONSVehicleFactory or ASVehicleFactory) will churn out the vehicle of your choice rapidly, but only one will become available at the time, of course. So you can still have vehicles from the start, technically. Just set that property to true, put your vehicle factory actors in and the vehicle will appear when you start the map and be replaced when you drive the vehicle away from its spawning point.

...which explains the behaviour y'all are seeing.

Acutally, I thought the map was kinda small! The first objective is to get to the vehicle, so the defenders spawn at that area and defend that, then you escort the vehicle through the tunnel whilst destroy barricades, down to where the grass is and then to the sewers again. Plus side objectives planned as well etc..
Anyway, I just chucked that actor/vehicle there as a test (the leviathon is way too big for it), as you can't test vehicles in a deathmatch map, and I can't be screwed setting up an assault map as yet.
There's a long way to go with the map, what's there is basically a rough outline of where the paths and things are. There's going to be much more interesting architecture, pathways and other eye candy. I'm basically just going to be concentrating on this one map so that it'll look really nice. Those street lights are static meshes btw.

pretty damn cool - I like the swampy waterway end a lot ( although the bright white texture makes it tricky to find those stairs there! :) ) Looking forward to seeing how it all fits together.

Are you thinking of making a go-anywhere vehicle, or, an on-a-rail like vehicle (you don't need rails, you can just make it a maglev)?

how will the objectives for each side work? i'm assuming it's like a assult map in that one team has to get to complete objectives while the other simply trys to stop them within the time limmit. i like thoses games but i think it would be cool to have both teams needing to complete objectives to win, and no time limmit. dunno how you would do that without it beeing a simple "BF hold the flag" senario. i'm to tired to think of a solution now though....

Probably a go anywhere slow vehicle. There'll be small barriers so the driver can't veer off course.

Yeh, I like a variety of maps - anyone can choose to do something like you suggested. I want to see someone do a large open kind of map too. I'm heading towards this kind of map though.

it would be best to have a variety, so you should definatly do that kind of map. assult in UT is great, but it gets boring after a while, same with BF style control points. a few of each would keep it interesting i rekon.

I wouldnt mind doing some sort of capture the flag map, in the layout of 2fort from HL TF. Though I havent mapped since the days of Quake1 eek!

You should give it a shot. It's not too hard, especially with the Unreal engine. You could even just create the map entirely through your favourite 3d application and import the models into Unreal as static meshes.

hey guys - i'm starting to learn UnrealScript, and nothing teaches better than an actual project.

If you want "stuff" written for the map (ie: triggered vehicle spawner, objective satisfaction) then just drop me a PM and I'll get right on it.

heeeeeeey thats looking really interesting, should be great to see fully playable.

That looks really good Souri, keep it up.

u still working on this souri
im just starting to tinker with the unreal ed 3 so might be able to do some stuff a bit later for u if u want

Yeh, go for it, dude!

I've put that map on hold, and am working on another one. I figured that the amount of work to make a city map is a bit too much for my first map. [;)]

yeah know what u mean im trying to figure out how to import stuff from max needs all colosion stuff and its just crazy

ten i got to sort out the textures

i'm hopeless at concept art, so i would love to be able to model from some really good concepts if any artists out their dont want to do the modeling themselves.

This is a very loose concept i just worked on. Trying for a "Futuristic Roman" look (sorry about it being out of proportion and my bad shading, ill try to post a better one soon).

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/conundrum/200513072416_Future-Ro…]

shields... now that's something no-one has thought of...

Shields; that is an interesting idea.
Hand held shields could totally change the way a shooter works.
You could have lots of different kinds of shields. Reflective shields that weapons fire bounces of would be fun. Or energy shields that drop out when they run out of power..
*shrug*

It?s certainly different..

Nice concept conundrum ? makes me think of the Stargate concept of mixing ancient history (Egyptian in their case) with sci-fi. Only your concept is much more future than past.

Shields could be possible for players in UT2k4. Something similar to the Paladin vehicle which can project a shield which depletes after a number of hits before needs to be powered up again. Maybe shields for one of the classes only. Anyway, shields is something the programmers will have to look up.

it could be a secondary 'weapon' - if you can pick different secondary weapons
eg: another gun, extra ammo, medikit, shield, etc.

just a quick 10 min sketch of a medic.. hes shooting health rays from his hand

[img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Attachment: [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/adie/200513183451_shamans.jpg"]shamans.jpg[/url]
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cool stuff, that would be a really nice style to go for, fits in well with someones suggestion for sorcery based medics. looking forward to more

i really like that sketch adie, its urban jungle and futuristic and still has that witchdoctor look about him.

i like glowy things

here is another one, going for the warrior class, not very happy with it but i thought id post it anyway. the large thing next to him is supposed to be a large tower shield[:p]

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/conundrum/2005239362_Future-Roma…]

EDIT, here's a newer concept, im fairly pleased with this one, going for the medic/engineer class

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/conundrum/20052482538_Engineer.j…]

can they have glowy bits?? :D

Nice idea?s there Conundrum. I think you?re on the right track. I think the retro future look would be much cooler then the typical glossy sci-fi look of most games. But don't worry LiveWire, that doesn?t mean there can?t be glowy bits [;)]

I?m no concept artist, but here?s an idea for some body armour. I?m trying to get an ancient/modern look ? like high tech medieval armour kind of thing. It sucks not being able to translate my ideas into pictures efficiently. Anyway, I?d like to contribute to the modelling/texturing/animation part of sumea mod. This is just an idea I had:
[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/palantir/200524192811_armour_con…]

i like the idea of less in the way of body armour and more like that whole freddy kruger / jason X gone sci fi thing. Not nescarily horror but it looks a bit cult and mythical yet theres metal and of course the all important glowy bits. Makes it look a whole lot more fresh.

if there are enough glowy bits we could use them to define team colours.

Livewire wants glowly bits, give the man some glowly bits before he collapses!! [:D]

Actually I think the glowy bits to define teams is a great idea [:)]

I really like that last concept you posted conundrum he looks great. Its the first one that I think should be developed and defined further into something that can be easier to model off. Cleaner linework, more defined materials and structure etc. Good job on him [:)]

Phew! I've just finished summarising everything I can about ideas etc. from both threads into one mongrel of a post in the [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2686"]Mod state thread[/url] (Including Livewire's "glowy bits" idea [:)]). Anyone who has comments about what I've gotten wrong - please PM me...

(sorry for the crosspost - I just need a placemarker to show me where in this thread I got up to in the summarising for round two!)

Your doing a fantastic job Mcdrewski [:)]

i have to agree that you're definately during a great job mcdrewski.
thanks for all the comments on the last one, heres a hacker type concept with glowy bits included this time

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/conundrum/20052643530_Hacker.jpg…]

horray! glowy bits!

That?s a pretty good idea. I like where your designs are going Conundrum. Hope to see more from you. [:)]

Come on people, draw up some concepts!

Hey Conny, I really like the style of your concepts, quite original, would be great to see them translated into 3D models.

It'd be a great idea to have widely different body types for each player class, then they'd stick out a lot more and be easily identifiable.

I agree, love the style and the glowy bits. I also like the suggestion of heavily contrasting body types - lithe, slender covert and huge, hulking heavy, that kinda thing.

yeah Im with the livewire... glowing team colors
nice concepts conundrum :) but they need a little detail.. carnt realy make out what they are wearing ,or maybe just some color washes to define the garment more.. hmmmmm..i dont know about this old style /future stuff ..Let me have a little sketch maybe ill like it more

Sorry for the really cheesey drawing but you could make out the team with his glowy bits lol[:D]

[img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Attachment: [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Octane/2005277834_lightbulb.jpg"]lightbulb.jpg[/url]
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Well I just started drawing a little last night to try and get some ideas out.. Pitty I didn't have enough time to get any of the ideas finshed but its WIP of his right arm. Not looking like much at the moment but give me a little longer and I'll have something a little more polished. At lest something you can understand [:p]

Just thought I should add this is going to be for the covert unit.. I'll get more pictures up soon I hope.

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/UniqueSnowFlake/200527171238_Sum…]

Hey all, thought id add in my 2c anyway a friend put me onto these forums and i thought id give this a bash, just did up some rought sketches last night was going for a starcraft style medic with a little of the armours style from the end of the movie mission to mars( at least i think its mission to mars where carrie ann moss wears that white armour at the end???)
will do some more sketching when i get home after work, maybe add a little color and the glowy doo dads
cheers yall
NIBBLES
[:D][:D][:D]

Insert Image: [img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Nibbles/20052812549_medic2.jpg[/…]
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I'm almost embarassed to post, but running with the 'urban primitive' concept I just had to try out my tablet and do something.

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/mcdrewski/2005287710_heavy.jpg[/…]

No, it's not meant to be the thundercats, nor the power rangers :)

Ah, it?s good to see people willing to have a go.

I like this idea of obviously different/contrasting body types for the different classes.

Octane; [:D] Very funny! It?s certainly different. Though I imagine he?d go down from a head shot pretty easy. I realise your joking, but it would be pretty funny to see a lighbulb head running around in game! He?d be an easy target!

USF, looks awesome, er, whatever it is [:P]. Looking forward to seeing the rest of it. [:)]

Nibbles, some nice medic concepts there. Like in your drawings, I think it would be cool to have the medic?s light armour appear less like armour and more like high-tech medical bits, especially if the medic class is going to be multi-functional. So mechanical multi-purpose appendages perhaps?

Mcdrewski, I like the idea of having mech like components attached to living flesh. Good for a heavy gunner type guy, anyway.

It?s good to see someone else posting a concept drawing without being overly worried about impressive artwork. I think we need more concepts at this point, and less worry about skilled renders. Once we narrow down what we are after, then would be the time for the concept artists to shine. But until we get a stronger artistic direction, I think it would be a good thing for people just to post quick sketches of their ideas so that we make progress. I just hope people aren?t holding back their concepts because they want their art to look stunning.

yes, very good to see a bit more variety comming out now. i might put my dodgy sketching skills to the test soon too, maybe. let's see how many more we get first eh?

also: do all the characters have to be human? we could very easily have a non-human team aswell.

there's a lot of good stuff in the reference pics too incase there are any team memebers that havn't looked yet.

A few thoughts from an online gaming addict (though I've never played Enimy Territory):

quote:- Futuristic setting

Probably the easiest and most popular setting to work with for the engine, good choice.

quote:- A class based, team orientated multiplayer game with numerous objectives per map, similar to Enemy Territory. It's similar to the assault mode in Unreal Tournament 2004, but with a lot more depth. One team attacks, the other team defends.

I think the game would be much more dynamic and exciting for both teams if it were designed as an opposing assault so both teams are required to attack and defend. Team Fortress has some maps of this style, you basically start with half the map each and must capture all the other teams territory to drive them off the map.

quote:- At least these classes (feel free to suggest more):
Soldier (different varieties of weapons), Medic, Ammunitions, Engineer, Covert...

Standard fare, not much to say. You could always lose the strict class system and let people pick and choose weapon loadouts and skills ala Tribes.

quote:- double jump capability, along with lying prone

What style of gameplay are you aiming for, fast and frantic, slow and calculated or somewhere in between? What will these abilities add to that style? I like them both but they seem to be in conflict in terms of gameplay.

quote:- Using the Unreal Tournament 2004 engine.

I've no experience with this engine but I hear it's great, good luck!

Perhaps the question that should be asked is "What will make our game different/better?". There have been plenty of class based games with assault modes before, why should people play this one instead?

edited after reading through all the blathering in the old long thread

It's only an idea, but if you want a 'hook' that's just that little bit different, why not brainstorm around I suggest using the wording in the backgound image 'Destroy Them My Robots'.

Here's the first thing from the top of my head based on that:

- classes are all actually different robots, with very different movement/abilities due to that (ie: scout/tank/repairbot etc.)
- RE-VOLT style (remember the radio controlled racing game?), we play with scale. perhaps 'my robots' are spawned by two huge humans playing it out over a tabletop/arena/whatever? would be an interesting and somewhat unique level design.

So, the last thing we need is more ideas I guess. Souri, how about we all brainstorm in this thread, then 'someone' (ie: the mods?) summarise them up into maybe four one-liner summaries, which we turn into a simple poll. sumeans vote and we all agree to make the result? I will help, programming or modelling if needed, although I'm a n00b with no real experience under my belt... :)

I'm personally more than happy to be the guy that collates all ideas in this thread into something for the 'creative lead' (I guess that's you Souri?[:p]) to review if you'd like. I'm a games n00b, but I've been writing and reviewing software docs for 6yrs professionally so I can guarantee the spelling will at least be ok. [:)] Give me a 'closing' date or deadline and I'll do it.
-d

Excellant, that would be great Mcdrewski.. It would be a great idea to post your notes at the Sumea Mod State thread, and update that post everytime something is concrete.

quote:"think the game would be much more dynamic and exciting for both teams if it were designed as an opposing assault so both teams are required to attack and defend. Team Fortress has some maps of this style, you basically start with half the map each and must capture all the other teams territory to drive them off the map."

Yeh, that's sort of what onslaught mode is in UT2k4, or capture and hold in a lot of other muliplayer FPS's (Battlefield 1942, Team Fortress etc). The thing about this mode is that it doesn't emphasise the importance of classes, since everyone can do the objective (capture and hold). When your team depends on, say an engineer, to complete certain objectives to push forward, then it really encourages team work and supporting each other or else you don't advance ahead. Anyway, that's really up to the level designer anyway if they want to build the map that way - that's fine, I'm all for different kinds of maps.

quote:Standard fare, not much to say. You could always lose the strict class system and let people pick and choose weapon loadouts and skills ala Tribes.

I think that being able to choose your preferred class is better than having to pick up the same weapon + skills each and every time after you die just to choose your class. I remember playing the demo for Tribes: Vengeance which did this, and it's something I wish I could skip doing all the time... I dunno, what does everyone else think. If one thing that Enemy Territory has shown me, your spawn point isn't a safe haven, so having your desired weapon right off the bat is much better to start off with.

quote:What style of gameplay are you aiming for, fast and frantic, slow and calculated or somewhere in between? What will these abilities add to that style? I like them both but they seem to be in conflict in terms of gameplay.

Probably somewhere inbetween. Not a hopping jumping twitch frag fest like Quake 3, but definately not Rogue Spear. You should really check out Enemy Territory. Being prone helps for a defensive kind of play, and if you have a defensive weapon, say a high powered machine gun that you can only use while prone, it helps a lot in defending areas. Double jump - well, double jump is a standard in UT2k3/4, and makes for an extra ability while in combat or getting around the map.

quote:Perhaps the question that should be asked is "What will make our game different/better?". There have been plenty of class based games with assault modes before, why should people play this one instead?

Exactly, that's what this thread is for! I just put down the basics of what I want to see (different classes (such as medic, engineer etc)), maps with assault-style objectives, futuristic theme, and I'm hoping everyone can put down some great ideas to push it further and make it extraordinary.

Maybe there should be a covert class that can cloak + paint target areas for an arial assault (like starcraft), or maybe one of the soldier classes are the only class that can drive vehicles (so the team depends on them to escort vehicles/drive vehicles to the objective), or another soldier class that can fire mortars/shoot controllable missiles, or a general class that has an overhead view of the map and provide intel for the team/drop medic paks/ammo/set traps.. I dunno, just ideas. I'm sure a lot of you can come up with new ideas that give a different kind of playing style.

I was thinking about this earlier whilst trying to come up with ideas for conocepts.
What sort of art direction do we want to have? As in what sort of futuristic setting do we want?
Will it be a dark/industrial type setting?
A post-apocaliptic setting?
A retro futuristic setting? -my fav choice
Or something else completly?

Also for an idea, what about making the mod a mix of ut/battlefield. It could have the action/pace of UT and the larger setting of a game like Battlefield 1942

I agree, the setting will let us tie down a lot of concrete decisions.

Souri, I'm sure you've got an idea at the moment. it would be great to either see the 'inspiration' art, or I guess get the following directions from the group:

'brand-new' or 'lived-in'? (ie: gleaming bright armor vs greasy and dirty fatigues)
'real-world' or 'meta-world'? (ie: earth gravity and limited ammo vs uber weaponry and infinite jump ability)

I think something relatively easy would be Makk's retro-futuristic sort of setting. Perhaps steampunk, but clean, and not scavenged from the ruins of another civilisation. (remember that as texture artists, the grittier we go, the more work we'll have to do!)

Re: Map objectives

You could have some control points which gave more advantages than just being another step closer to winning. Holding a control point might give your team advantages such as better ammunition and weapon supplies, improved energy armour or the use of a special vehicle.

You could tie this in to your classes as well, once an enemy control point is captured an Engineer might be required to activate the special bonus for your team.

Good idea Barry. Perhaps someone in something like a radar tower would allow enemies to show up on each player's HUD? Perhaps a scout (spy? computer operator?) could 'convert' a radar tower from one team to the other, making it a useful thing to defend, but not absolutely critical.

I can imagine some serious booby-trapping taking place, making a scout and an engineer (soldier? sapper?) a formidable team to take one of the radar towers, convert it to your team and then booby-trap the place against the opposition...

Logically, that implies "arena" (ie: combat occurs in battle-dome or specially constructed fields) field or urban play. it kind of rules out spaceship/fully indoor play. Ideas people! :)

I love all-of-the-above futuristic settings, really. I'm happy for the level designer to choose what kind of theme they want to suit their maps objectives/scenario. Most of the content is going to be done with the level designs, and I'll be just content to just say "build whatever you please, just make it futuristic". Just as there are many varied kinds of map designs and visuals for, say, Counterstrike etc, it shouldn't really need to be confined to one kind of specific setting. It's sort of like saying "we gotta have a common theme to our maps - make them all modern day and based in Iraq/a desert theme".. Keeping it modern day makes sense, but choosing a specific setting, like making them all desert is a bit too restrictive.

If there is a consistency that needs to be kept, it really has to be with the character designs so they have the same similar look and designs across the team.

I'm all for different kinds of map objectives, attack + defend for both teams, large battlefield maps etc.. they'll just be up to whoever is planning to build them. The map I'm working on is a rather more street level/close combat kind of map with choke points so that battles can be more focused around certain areas. The thing with large maps is that you end up fighting dots (Onslaught, Tribes, Battlefield 1942 etc), close combat weapons become useless, so vehicles are usually used to compensate for long distance combat, but variety in maps is good, so large maps, small maps, different kinds of objectives etc, it's all good.

I really want to get the ball rolling regarding character classes so we can do a call for concept art.

Soldier (different weapons in this class)
Covert Ops
Engineer
Ammunition guy
Medic
General ?

We can discuss their innovative attributes, skills, and weapons later, but do you think that should cover it? Is there another new class that could be provide a totally new way of playing the game?

btw, that radar tower idea is *awesome*. I love the idea of side-objectives that aren't necessary to complete the map but really help out your team. Good stuff!

Yeah, I like the idea of bonuses for capturing certian areas on the map :)
Maybe pilot? His strenght would be tha missile and gun attacks from aircraft would do more damage, also maybe able to call in airstrikes. Meh, cant really think of anything else at the moment.
Though maybe the ammo guy could be combined with the medic to make some sort of supplies class :/

quote:Originally posted by Souri

...Just as there are many varied kinds of map designs and visuals for, say, Counterstrike etc, it shouldn't really need to be confined to one kind of specific setting. It's sort of like saying "we gotta have a common theme to our maps - make them all modern day and based in Iraq/a desert theme".. Keeping it modern day makes sense, but choosing a specific setting, like making them all desert is a bit too restrictive.

I know what you're saying, but Counter-strike has a consistent premise/world view. ie: it's a real world with 'real' weapons and props (well, mostly).

"The future" could be William Gibson/The Matrix/Ghost in the Shell where (all action occurs in a computer controlled netherworld), or 5th element/Star Trek (it's fast forward from today, roughly, but rooted in some form of realistic universe), or (shudder) Blade/Underworld (high-tech where we feel like it with heavy doses of mythology)

I think that these decisions will really shape the game. for example, in one we have the 'Infantry/Cavalry/Engineer/Medic/Comms/Intelligence' sort of classes, and in the other we might have 'Empath/Hacker/Cyborg/Wetware Surgeon' etc.

It's all the Future :)

I like the Akira/Ghost in the Shell futuristic look. Densley populated old concrete urban jungles mixed with new huge skyrises, lotsa neon, lights and billboards, and plenty of fantastic futuristic architecture, vehicles and contraptions. I don't know what style you'd classify that as, but it's the sort of look I'm hoping to go for in my map (which is urban based). I like pretty much a lot of the concepts in the reference thread if you've checked them out. There are some really creative stuff in there that would be a seriously visually appealing masterpiece if someone took some of the inspiration and translated it into a map. If you want cyber/hack kind of attributes related to the game, I'm fine with that also. Tell me what you guys like and post some examples.

Makk, can you expand on retro-futuristic? Is that sort of like the designs in Phantom Menace? Or futuristic designs from the 60's?

Ammo guy combined with the medic as a supply class would make things pretty unbalanced because that would make him too powerful (unlimited ammo, and could heal himself). I know in Enemy Territory, they've given the medic class much less ammo to even things up. Anyway, I've got a tonne of ideas for the classes which I will type up later if anyone is interested. I've also been working on that map - it's starting to look pretty good. I want to at least have the entire floor placed first before I upload for you guys to look at.

quote:Originally posted by Souri

I like the Akira/Ghost in the Shell futuristic look. Densley populated old concrete urban jungles mixed with new huge skyrises, lotsa neon, lights and billboards, and plenty of fantastic futuristic architecture, vehicles and contraptions.[/br]

...so future, but not too far in the future, and with equipment and vehicles that are evolutions of current equipment rather than something completely unknown. I think that's quite managable, since we don't necessarily need a strong art lead to get consistency in tech (think all the myriad race details in the LotR movies), and I like the idea a lot.

quote:
Anyway, I've got a tonne of ideas for the classes which I will type up later if anyone is interested.

I'd love to see them actually Souri...

Perhaps we should have an old fashioned brainstorming irc session some night. No idea is too strange, no negative comments at all, just freeform thoughts and ideas. Then we can go through those and try to come up with a one paragraph summary of the mod.

Perhaps we should take a note from Deus Ex on objectives: have a variety of ways to complete them, not just several objectives to win the map.
eg: one of your objectives might be to take out the radar tower, but to do this you can (A) blow it up with heavy tanks etc from the outside, (B) get an Demo guy in and plat explozives at weak points, or (C) geta Covert Ops guy to hack the mainframe and shut it down.

further to this you could have 'secondary effects' that you dont have to do to complete the mission.
eg: you can attempt to hack the power grid to shut down the auto defenses for a limited amount of time, making it easyier to complete the objective.
combine a lot of these and suddenly HOW you complete the objective becomes more stategic than the "run in shooting, reach objective, repeat" or UT's Assult mode.
And if you wanted to get really strategic you could make some of the secondary effects need team work to work their best. eg: the power grid terminal might be to far away from the main objective to use on your own, so you shut it down and then your teammates on the other side of the building proceed to the objective.

another idea:

Aerial Assault Class
Jetpack trooper with medium level assault gun. used for quick strike tactics.
has no other benefits (cant hack, cant lay bombs, whatever) so that it doesn?t overpower. perhaps moves slower on foot.
cool idea (maybe):
when shot with rockets or something they blow up causing splash damage
when shot down in the air with normal weapons you spiral towards the ground, however you still have limited control over where you spiral to so you can attempt to crash and explode on enemy troops kamikaze style!

just trying to come up with a unique class beyond the stock standard GI, demo, medic, etc. i can imagine defending an outpost and seeing a whole 'squadron' of aerial troops rise up over the hill side! it could be a strategy: send in a bunch of suicide aerial troops to attempt to take out as many opponents as possible - and when they get slaughtered by the AA guns then can then attempt to dive bomb them and disorientate them enough for the ground troops to move in!

Excellant ideas in the post on different kinds of ways to complete objectives. Mcdrewski is gonna have to make a "ideas for mappers" list and put those on there, along with the radar map idea, side objectives ideas etc I had a great idea for objectives

Aerial Assault Class sounds good, but I think letting people choose to fly as a class may affect the way some maps are played where the mapper intended it to be played on foot. Perhaps we can make a jetpack vehicle object in UT2k4 that lets you fly by pressing the space bar, and lowers you via gravity like Tribes, so the mapper can choose if he/she wants players to be able to fly on their map and on which parts/the entire map. What do you think? The class would be great on large open maps, but on street level combat maps like mine, they would be a problem.

I was thinking of a mortar class, but I think that may be the same situation as above. Perhaps we could have a mortar vehicle so the mapper can choose which parts of the map where they can mortar to. Will have to use a modified version of the SPMA vehicle in UT2k4.

Some ideas on the classes - (some are standard fare on classes):

- Foot Soldier (all have a standard machine gun but with an extra primary weapon)
-- 1. Rocket Launcher type gun with powerful splash, but long reloading times and limited ammo (say 6 shots?) (great offensive weapon)
-- 2. Ground machine gun - can only be used while prone (great defensive weapon)
-- 3. Controllable missile - 6 shots? Sorta like the UT2k4 redeemer where you have a camera view of the missile and can control it. Small blast radius.
-- 4. Flamethrower (offensive/defensive weapon)
-- 5. Maybe the soldier class are the only class that can drive special vehicles to their objectives (for the maps that have that objective)? (gives this class something to do, objective wise)

- Aerial Assault Specialist
---1. see above comments

- Covert Operations (Choice of two weapons? Standard Machine gun, and Sniper rifle? So we don't need a sniper class)
--- 1. Can cloak himself for a short amount of time? (in UT2k4, there's a shader that already lets players do that if they get enough adrenaline or something. You can still spot them if you look carefully)
--- 2. Can disguise himself as an enemy by killing one? Only enemy coverts can spot him?
--- 3. Small dynamite that can destroy enemy side-objectives quickly? Gives this class something to do objective-wise and help out the team
--- 4. Can hack for side-objectives?
--- 5. Spot enemy mines
--- 6. Paint a target for a nuclear strike? Bigger radius than Supply Tech airstrike, but with only one bomb

- Supply Tech
--- 1. Can drop ammunition pacs
--- 2. Can call an airstrike - uses a special gun to call an aistrike which causes a small radius of bombing. Probably 5 bomb blasts at random within 30 seconds (you know the weapon in UT2k4 which calls for an airstrike? You have to aim, then charge for a few seconds to target a spot. Maybe limit this to 4 airstrikes a life?)

- Demolitions/Engineer
--- 1. Build turrets, barricades, build/repair objectives/vehicles
--- 2. Dynamite enemy barricades, side objectives.. Dynamite has a 20 second fuse, giving the enemy Engineer a chance to defuse.
--- 3. Plant mines that the enemy can't see (modify the spider mines in UT2k4, so they don't automatically run towards the enemy? Maybe planting mines could involve using a special gun and charging up then shooting to plant? Limit the number of mines to 20 per team?)
--- 4. Defuse dynamite and enemy mines spotted by coverts

- Medic (standard machine gun with much more limited bullets)
--- 1. Drop medic pacs
--- 2. Revive fallen teammate
--- 3. when medic is prone, he has a small healing radius, so if any player (including enemy) enters that radius, their health goes up (not sure if this is possible in UT2k4, porogrammer will have to look it up)

Extra vehicles?:

Jetpack - for flight
Mortar vehicle - for mortaring the enemy
Special vehicle - for driving in objectives
Manned Turrets - which engineers can build/repair. Players can enter them
Remote manned turrets? - like in UT2k4 assault RobotFactory..
Auto Turrets? - They're a bit cheesy, maybe limit one per engineer.

Any other classes you can come up with? To be honest, I think Team Fortress has too many classes. If someone comes up with a new class, maybe add their functionality to a class above? Or supply it through vehicles? Anyway, comments please.. Hopefully we can get the classes sorted for some concept art then modelling/texturing etc work to begin.. I have the basic setup of my map nearly done so will upload that for you to check out.

i guess if you're worried about some classes not suiting certain maps we could always disable them on thoses maps. just as you would dissable different vehicles on certain maps that dont suit them.

i like flamethrowers. it might be cool to have a specific flame thrower class. a heavy armered defence class like star craft firebats. but like you said, you might end up having too many classes. could always make them the demo/engineer class. most demo/engine classes in other games are farily weak boring in combat i my oppinion (though they're not for that specifically sooner or latter you will end up in combat).
bulking them up with heavy armour and flame throwers as their primary weapon would make them unquie. lets see:
> heavy armour
> primary weapon: flamethrower - short range wide spreading defensive weapon
> secondary weapon:
proxy mines
or rocket launcher
or auto turret
or etc.
> repare vehicles, dissarm, normal enginer stuff
> slower movement and single jump only to offset weapon power and armour
> cant drive some vehicles or use maned turrets, etc
> explodes when dies via explosive weapon (imagin a chain of these guys exploding one after another cos they stood to close togther :D)
> powerful self-distruct function aswell?

just trying to make the support style classes a little more interestin to use. i think each class should have some awsome ability/abilities so that there is no class that is heaps better than another and you want to use all of them.

hmm, how's this for covert ops:
> no armour
> quick, silent movement
> cloak ability or disguise ability (i think one eliminates the need for the other)
> heat detect view option (sees heat shadded world to spot enemies.
pros: could use to spot hidden enemies, enemies behind walls, and cloaked enemies.
cons: cant tell friend from foe, players can stand near 'hot' areas of the map to hide (would make interesting map design ideas i guess)
> primary weapon: long range sniper rifle (has to be long range cos some games have sniper rifles with stupidly sort ranges and they are less fun)
> secondary weapon: ??
> * melee weapon: powerful energy knife or something for silent one-hit covert kills
> hacking ability

*every class should have a weapon that dosnt require ammo - perhaps the medic has an unlimited ammo gun (although not very strong) to offset his otherwise very weak character a bit.

[edited to mention the 'engineer' class component! D'oh!]

I really like the idea of a smaller number of more combined classes, to allow smaller teams to really play. Your idea of the engineer/demolitions being able to carry a heavy weapon is cool too, I like it.

So, taking that to it's logical extreme, how about combining it to three simple classes.

Heavy weapons/engineer/demolitions/supply : Slow and heavily armoured with the ability to carry extra machine gun ammo, but no other 'special' weapon ammo. Maybe can carry 'smart' missiles which can home in on a painted target. Whatever the case, the heavy weapon has to be kick-arse, and the armour thick so that people choose to play this class.

Covert/hacker/medic : Fast and lightly armoured, and their rifle/machinegun includes a sniper scope (it still 'kicks' when fired, so fully auto sniping isn't practical). Can disarm mines and armed demolition packs. Can assasinate characters if striking from behind and silently. Can cloak or diguise oneself. Can call in airstrikes or 'guide' heavy weapons' "smart" missiles to a target. For 'leet headshot kiddies' who love twitch gaming and those of us that loved the 'thief' series.

Infantry : Fast and moderately armoured. Can carry a secondary heavy weapon but has limited ammo. Can drive vehicles, including a troop carrier to move the heavy weaps around. Can wear jump-packs. Can fire mortars/artillery. Mid-way between the heavy and covert, but dependent on both.

In fact, while I'm writing this I'm starting to get a slightly Warhammer 40k feel to the classes, so we should be careful to not go in that direction too far.

So, three classes would make the programming and art a lot easier, but would let some less experienced modellers build lots of weapons and props, or lots of different 'team' armour styles based on a few simple requirements. However, does that change the sort of vision you have there Souri?

If we playtest and find unevenness, we can always shift some abilities around with only three classes.

Hey, that's a damn excellant idea!! [:)] Definately will require playtesting to balance things, like you said, but those three classes should do it! I like how each class has the potential for a vital role in mission objectives, if the level designer builds it that way, and they're all important for supporting each other.

Although I think the infantry class should be Heavy weapons, Slow and heavily armoured etc (so that this class is more of an offensive/defensive class), while the engineer/demolitions/supply class should be what you got for infantry (Fast and moderately armoured, lighter weapons) to discourage them from taking an offense/defensive role (camping/defense, providing attack support etc), and make their mission objectives more important - butletting them have a flamethrower would be cool. Plus it would be better if they were not the slowest class. Whaddya think.

Oh, and that heat detect view option to spot enemy cloaked coverts is an excellant idea.

Probably would suggest a standard handgun for all players (with the suggested unlimited ammo) too, and some grenades.

Just a quick suggestion, not sure how this would fit into the whole scheme of things, but ive always thought that a mounted class would be cool in a multiplayer, they would be similar to vehicles as they would be effective against infanrty but weak against air attacks. Making medic/ammo class mounted could work because it would explain their ability to carry large amounts of aid and let them move around the battlefield more quickly. i like the way things are working out though, its coming along well

hehehe, that is original. the only problem would be the practical limitations of their movement around maps. but if they are designed to be pretty much the same height and width as the largest foot chracter that wouldnt be a problem.
i think we should have mounts, even if they are only vehicles (which would mean we could mak them any size too)

combining everything into three classes is pretty cool too. dosnt allow for mach variety in models unless we do different teams each with different models (not just texture colours).

i guess the questions needed to be asked are:
how many people are willing to work on this?
how many want to do character modeling?
when do we want to have this finished by?

i dont know if these answeres are on another post somewhere (perhaps we should make a list of people and what they are willing to work on too)

quote:while the engineer/demolitions/supply class should be what you got for infantry (Fast and moderately armoured, lighter weapons) to discourage them from taking an offense/defensive role
i thought by making them heavily armoured and slow it would make them less effective in attack, though good for defence and close-quater combat. but maybe i'm just bias cos i like the idea of playing as a StarCraft like Firebat :). hmm, that brings up an interesting idea. perhaps you choose your class then the primary and secondary weapons. so their stats are the same and only weapons are diferent. then depending on your primary weapon you could have a different character model, which would allow for a greater variety of characters while keepsing the classes confined to 3. this would mean you cant drop/pickup weapons other weapons though. but i think the game would be better if the characters attributes meant more than the weapon they were carrying (so that you wouldn't want to pick up anothers weapon cos your haracter is better suited to the one you have). erm, hard to get accross what i'm trying to say here. :? oh well, back to gamasutra...

ok, sorry about all the eassy posts i've been making, but i just had a cool idea (well, i think it is anyway) fora level:

Mission Type:
Escort

Level Layout:
A large platform sits on rails at one end of the map. The rails wind accross the map to the far end. the rails is intersected by a series of closed gates. sugest junctions where the rails track splits in two to break up some of liner-ness.

Objectives:
The platform waits at each gate until it is opened, afterwhich it automatically moves to stop at the next. the Attacking team must open each gate in turn (no two gates should be the same or have exactly same means of opening them - though if there are several ways to open a gate then no combination should be the same), while the defending team must stop them from escorting the platform to the end of the level

Victory:
platform reaches end of track (attackers win)
time runs out (defenders win)

now, this is pretty standard and boring on its own, so here's...

The Twist:
The platform has on it an huge beast (like a dragon or something) sleeping on it. if the beast/platform takes to much damage it wakes p and wreaks havolk on the surounding area (taking out anyone not under cover), before settling down and returnig to sleep again.
because the platform automatically moves from one gate to the next quickly this will be devistating to both teams, so neither should want to wake it up lest everyone suffer the consiquences!
the map should be filled with small caves, etc (some that fit only one or two people in - kinda like hinding in the cubord) to when the beast wakes up everyone has to run away! run away! monty python style and find cover.
the gates should offter only a little cover, perhaps only in some objective rooms and defender spawn points (attackers would spawn at the previous gate).
players can ride the platform as it moves to the next gate for a quick first strike tactic (stading next to something no-one wants to shoot!)

this whole thing was just an idea i had trying to come up with something that involves mutual unspoken agreement between the teams. some twisted form of co-operation in a compedative invironment. dont shoot the dragon!

(I just had a full literary masterpiece of a post written and lost it. damn.)

quote:
Although I think the infantry class should be Heavy weapons, Slow and heavily armoured etc ...snip..., while the engineer/demolitions/supply class should be what you got for infantry ...snip... to discourage them from taking an offense/defensive role ...snip..., and make their mission objectives more important - butletting them have a flamethrower would be cool. Plus it would be better if they were not the slowest class. Whaddya think.

Sounds cool. My reasoning was that the 'real worldness' of supply classes has always been a problem for me (ie: roger wilco's "you pick up the ladder and put it in your pocket. Ouch."). Making them heavy and slow (with a huge space-marine-esque backpack) solved that for me, and then led on to carrying demolitions stuff also, and then onto an actual offense/defense role. Conundrum's "mounted" idea might solve that too, though.

I agree that this might mean that they're never used for their mission objectives, though, so I'm now not so convinced about my original idea.

quote:
Oh, and that heat detect view option to spot enemy cloaked coverts is an excellant idea.

Probably would suggest a standard handgun for all players (with the suggested unlimited ammo) too, and some grenades.

100% agreed on both points. like it. I've always wanted to see flash grenades put to good use in a game too...

Finally, in response to Livewire's comment about the limited scope for models, I think we can get around that by allowing different teams/tribes/races with different styles of armour. That way if we get lots of modellers we can have a veritable cornucopia of styles of armour. We can even leave it in the sumea 'activities' section and have the mod grow as it goes along through submissions later (2500 A.D samurai inspired culture anyone? Barbarian? Nazgul/Undead?). It also means that if we get only a few people doing the work we can still finish the mod before it REALLY gets to 2500 A.D. [:P]

quote:
The platform has on it an huge beast (like a dragon or something) sleeping on it. if the beast/platform takes to much damage it wakes p and wreaks havolk on the surounding area

I love the idea - although from a programmer's point of view it's a bit of a pain to have to code beast AI for just one map! :)

But hell, I haven't had a Godzilla-esque creature wreak havok on a game I'm in since SimCity :) I like it!

Not sure I can see it just 'going back to sleep', though... might have to have it wake and struggle against the bars then sleep again every few minutes anyway, then when it gets peeved it lays seige to the entire area with a flamethrower breath or something.

...as for unspoken agreement though, calling in an airstrike from the other side of the map, or using a cloaked 'suicide' covert op on the beast would be a pretty gnarly strategy :)

quote:Not sure I can see it just 'going back to sleep', though... might have to have it wake and struggle against the bars then sleep again every few minutes anyway, then when it gets peeved it lays seige to the entire area with a flamethrower breath or something.

as i say to my team on scootarama: pfft! dosn't have to make perfect sence. it's a game, as long as it's fun!
(granted scootarama is far more cartoony, but the principle is the same :) )

Blah! Too much to read at 8am! I kinda had an idea about classes / style and wasn't sure if something like this had been discussed.

What about keeping the future setting but looking at a way to make it more unique. Just thinking of how games like FF managed to do a future "setting". I was wondering about something where instead of the medic, explosive person, etc (or what ever they are) and doing something more... tribal? Instead of a medic (or keep it a medic) maybe look at making it more of a Medicine Man or such. Just thinking of a more techno twsit on the future.... explosive person could be more of a techno mage... Dunno.

i agree that we need to make it diferent. a lot of the motivation behind my ideas for classes is to change the existing stock standard classes and make them more interesting - or completely different. havnt thought about the visuals myself yet though. i figure i'll model whatever the concept artists come up with.

here's a few random things i thought up while bored at work
> if there is a medic class, perhaps they could have a short range 'link gun' type weapon. when fired at allies it heals them, and when fired at enemies it hurts them. could give it unlimited ammo to give more appeal to this otherwise weak class. hmm, wonder if you could then make it work like a chain effect - the beam hits one player then jumps to another nearby and so on. perhaps that would be a second function with limited ammo or charge.
> if there is no medic at all (as the sniper/covert class dosnt really suit medic duties) you could have a medic vehicle that you can drive around and all allies within a certain area of it heal or something.
> also, on the giant best thing, i agree it is a bit much to it's code AI for only one mission. what you could do is have some kind of energy ball that when shot to much sends a blast up into the air and firey plasma hell rains down on the surounding area like a meteor shower, and you only survive under cover. probably easyier to code but an inanimate glowing ball is not as fun as godzilla going psyce on your troops!

also, though i said it might be cool to have multiple ways to satisfy objectives, i think this might split up the action a bit and with fewer players it would be hard to defent several objective points at once. unless the ammount of objective points is altered depending on how many peole are playing. otherwise it might be better to just have one objective point for each objective, and focus more on secondary efects (eg, shut off power, etc) so they dont need to be defended but it would be a good idea to.

i thought id just add this as its been an idea of mine for a little while but couldnt be bothered actually doing it. the inspiration comes from that online res evil game that was supposed to come out, where you and a team of survivors battled to escape the city without being infected. but once you were infected you became a zombie and got to attack your former teammates. ill use livewires layout to explain it

Mission Type:
Conversion

Level Layout:
Large open levels to suit a number of teams roaming at any given time. Also, some confrontations between big teams will need to be possible.

The players are divided into as many teams of two that are possible and any extra will have to be by themselves, ie. 16 players 8 teams, 21 players 10 teams of 2 and 1 team of 1. All the teams start away from eachother as possible similar to the setup of a multiplayer strategy game.

Objectives:
These teams then move around the map to attack other teams. Once a player is killed they join the team which killed them and so on, they spawn close to that team. This should eventuate in two large teams fighting eachother.

To ensure that the games dont last for ever, when a team is eliminated the spawn time increases ( this would need to be tested to work out the best times) and when there are only two teams anyone who dies doesnt spawn again.

Victory:
The last team standing wins, with the original players given extra points. I think some more eleborate point scoring systems could be nutted out[:p]

its a very rough concept but i think it would be fun, it would be interesting to hear other peoples opinions[:)]

i think that's a very cool idea. the only problem i can see is people letting former team mates kill them as to re-join their team, spoiling the point of the game. but if that could somehow be discouraged (or encouraged to work for the team you are currently on) i cant see any problem with it.

i had another idea for a mission type to:

Mision Type:
Counter Op

Level Layout:
two teams start in very different locations and have sperate paths to a common goal area. along the path (which may branch for variety) are a series of objectives, gates, whatever that must be overcome.

Objective:
Make your way past the objectives and reach the goal area first.

Twists:
> team paths intersect. though team A cannot complete team B's objectives or use their paths, they may come to areas where their gates are side by side (perhaps each open gate has an energy shied that only lets the appropriate team through) - thus they can fight to hinder each other's progress. there should be constant places like this where the other team's path is visible.
> some objectives effect the other team. eg: team B completes an objective further down the path than team B, however this lowers a bridge on team B's path allowing them to bypass one or two objectives and catch up a bit.
eg 2: team A must complete several objectives to bypass a gate, however one of these objectives will help team B somehow, so you leave that one until last.

Obsticles
>since the teams are not in direct competition iwth each other (at least not in the normal way) teams would have to fight bots or auto defenses where they are not crossing paths with the other team.
>sugest counter-objectives such as team A must collect 10 glowy energy balls and store them, while team B must try and destroy 10 glowy energy balls. these sort of objectives would have to be at the start (or very close to) of the level so that no team can get their too early and have no competition.
>obsticales would require team work to overcome - essential as most of the game you are in the company of your team and only half the time fighting the other directly.
>if teams are evenly matched enough though they should be neck and neck most of the time, meaining that fences that can be shot though, etc. placed between them will allow for combat along the way even though they cant enter the other path at that location.

it's late and i'm tired. i think my idea needs a little more work before it's fully realised, but you get the gist of it.

nice idea, it would make for some interesting tactics as you could either attempt to focus on hindering the other team or go for speed and avoid confrontation. it would also be fun to design and build the scenarios.

i had thought of that problem as well, i guess it relies on people trying to play in the right spirit, but thats never certain. one possibility is basing the scoring on how many times you die (change teams), encouraging players to stay alive rather than dying on purpose

So should we do a call for character concept designs for those three classes now?

this thread is killing my dialup!
[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/LiveWire/20052881436_C_Sketches0…]
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ok, maybe not that one....

various digital artists

[IMG]http://img229.exs.cx/img229/5422/ref25ek.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img229.exs.cx/img229/2554/ref30al.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img229.exs.cx/img229/3151/ref40iw.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img229.exs.cx/img229/5/ref51nb.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img229.exs.cx/img229/1659/ref62sw.jpg[/IMG]

some frazettas which arent quite so futuristic but still very good character refs imo

[IMG]http://img229.exs.cx/img229/8973/ref73vg.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img229.exs.cx/img229/6597/ref82ev.jpg[/IMG]

phil hale

[IMG]http://img229.exs.cx/img229/1475/ref94es.jpg[/IMG]

Insert Image: [img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/3DArty/200412166851_concept.jpg[…]

Those are great David - Im really a fan of your work - the animations and quite a few of those models have on your site really have some attitude and personality about them.

Great Job [:)]

Hey, they are really good. Thanks for posting them.
They have more of a cartoon style then what I was trying for with the activity, but they are a good reference and show just how good a model can look on a low poly budget.

I?m too very impressed with the work on your site. Great stuff. :)

Hey, thanks for the complements, i have been doing this for a rather long time which is quite an advantage (feel old though) take care

Oh, uh..
Of course, when I said I?d get it finished by the weekend, I didn?t say which weekend! [:P]

A bit behind schedule, but at exactly 750 triangles it?s three quarters complete. I got side tracked with a couple of other projects, but at least I?ve managed to get something done. Hopefully will finish modelling by mid-week.

Crits/comments welcome (please).

[img] http://www.thoughtvalve.com/nucleus/media/3/20050116-palantir_3d2_wip02… [/img]

looking great, itd be cool to see that taken the whole way and textured aswell. atm the first thing i notice is that the arms look like they could use some thickening out, keep it up!

Thanks for the crit. Yeah, I think your right about the arms, they do look a bit skinny, don?t they? Will fix.

I think I will end up texturing and rigging it, as it?s all good practice. I?m thinking I?ll try and make her as a Buffy style of character. I?d really love to make a few Buffy style martial arts animation cycles for her. Though once again I?m getting ahead of myself, I really should just be focusing on the modelling ATM. [:P]

I?m worried about how it will deform. I think it needs some more edge loops in those key deformation area?s.

Well I think it?s about done then. It?s 998 triangles, and it was quite a struggle getting all the definition I wanted in under 1000 polys. The problem previously with the arms was all in the shoulder area, and lowering the join fixed that. The face and head was the area I found the most difficult.

I did some tests with the silhouette to make sure it was dynamic enough, and I also rigged it and did some test animations, and it seems to deform well enough - for such a tight budget.

Here?s the silhouette to show how it reads:
[img]http://www.thoughtvalve.com/nucleus/media/3/20050119-Silhouette_final.j…]

Final renders:
[img]http://www.thoughtvalve.com/nucleus/media/3/20050119-pimp02.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.thoughtvalve.com/nucleus/media/3/20050119-pimp04.jpg[/img]

If anyone feels those renders don?t show the model well enough, just say so and I?ll post some screen grabs. Likewise, if anyone wants the .3DS, just let me know.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Palantir: Good job so far =)

I think if you ever try to show off the silhouette of a model you should post orthagraphic renders.

Hey nice work Plantir! [:D]

Main crit I'd like to mention is that the edges down the side of her body (starting from just under the breasts) look like they could be moved in towards the body a little more. It is because I notcied that from the 3/4 views she looks too sharp on her sides. If you round it out a bit more by pushing in those edges it might be of some improvement :)

Hope that helps!

Haz ? Thanks :). I?m not exactly sure what you mean about posting orthographic renders for a silhouette. Do you mean only post renders of the orthographic viewports? That image above is a collection of the front, left and back viewports with two perspective renders. Would it be better not to show the perspective renders?

Anux ? Cheers :) I see what you mean about that edge. I think it could really use another edge loop along that side, so I might see if I can take some tris from somewhere else so I can add that extra edge (must stay in budget).

Now that I've had a break from modelling this, I can see a few little problems that need fixing. In general I think the mesh could be much tighter and cleaner. Now I just need to find some more time..

Palantir : Yeah thats right - it just means a flat view from side, front, back etc.
Its alot easier to judge silhouette form when your looking at a none perspective shot.

I though I?d give this gal a paint job.
The blonde is an aborted attempt. She?s a brunette now, but she needs some cool new threads.

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/palantir/2005713213251_textured_…]

Hey tht looks pretty good.
I like the eye area and youve got the technique down on how to do hair, you just need to put some more light and darks in there to give it volume. The same with the face, it is lacking abit of contrast. The ear looks good as well. Fix that seem on the forehead as well ;)

Most likely, people had them linked on personal web-space, and later removed them.

...actually, the images I'm talking about are trying to look in sumea hosted webspace

to wit:

if you can see this ->[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/simagesmisc/sumeaactivity/concept-1.jpg[/img]<- then it's working again :)

referenced off [url]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1208[/url]

Thats odd then. Mighta got chucked when the site moved.

Sorry, yeh the files got lost in the migration.. had to look through my HD to find copies and upload them all. It should be ok now. I'm hoping to do some of the activities when I have some free time.

sounds good, dunno about a constant time every week because after a while it wouldnt really mean anything to anyone i dont reckon. Just like make a post every once in a while for a time and see how many people do the whole "im there!" thing

I only have dial up connection, and a very slow one at that. Thats why I havn't been active in paint chat. Maybe you could run a joint on line / off line topic so others could still 'participate' and post their work.

Pantmonger

Thats a possible idea Moony, though I dont understand when you say that it wouldnt really mean anything to anyone after awhile. Do you mean poeple might lose interest?
Pants I have dialup as well but it has ran well for me. However the amount of users was only like 3 or 4.
An offline topic is another good idea, like the sumea speedpaint activities. This will allow people to work with their fav programs which is a bonus.
Another suggestion is that we could have like a certian theme/challange each time. One night it could be design a character or environemnt, the next it could be a mini battle (ala T-Dome). Just to spice things up so we dont lose interest.

Sounds like a great idea! I should make a news item or something so people know about it.

heh, that great idea was yours though ;)

Anyone else interested in this? what about the offline one?

Ok, you nutters. Sumea Paint Chat is on THIS SUNDAY night, 7pm till 10:30pm... I'm expecting *you all there*, or else I will begin to break things. Seriously, if I don't get more than 10 artists turning up, I'm going to close this site and turn it into some gaming website where people say "TEH SUCKS" and "OMGBBQ!1!!!" a lot.. And all the news items will be about the Half Life 2 preloading status.. because people get excited hearing about another HL2 preload.. [:o)]

And dialup modemer's should be fine - the initial download is what takes the longest (thats when you have to wait and download all the stuff that others have drawn before you join) but it updates things quite well when you're in.

We'll come up with a topic to draw and thread to post the results of Sumea Paint Chat night!!

Gah! Bad news. I fubered up Java.
Whenever I go to connect to paint chat (and some other websites) it asks me if I want to install Java Virtual Machine. I normally click ok and it starts to install.
However, one day I wasnt paying attention adn accidently clicked/ticked a "Dont install this agian" box (well, it wasnt those words). And now it wont install Java and thus I cant connect to Paintchat!! :(
HELP!!!
Ive tried resetting to the defualt settings under Tools/ Internet Options/ Advanced, but that hasnt done anything

If anyone is having trouble, come in to the sumea IRC channel on friday/saturday night and we'll try and help you out.

You may need to use an alternate IRC client if you used the java one on sumea (try mIRC: http://www.mirc.com)

Ok, everyone come to Sumea Paint Chat right now! I'm here with Ashen, and the topic tonight is draw Solid Snake!! Post your efforts in this thread [:)]

I sorta copped out and did a manga style colouring, but here is my bit of fun...

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/souri/2004101064830_solidsnake.j…]

here's my lazy mouse painted attempt. huzzah!

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/MoonUnit/2004101065051_pcsnake.j…]

GO GO SUPER HIPPY CLOWN KARAOKE SNAKE! Ahem...

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Wizenedoldman/200410107574_My-SS…]

Here?s my half arsed mouse painted effort. Me want?s a watcom.
[img]http://www.thoughtvalve.com/dl/mark/sumea/snake.jpg[/img]

hmmm... poo.

[img]http://ashen.ekumi.net/scrap/SnakePaintChat.jpg[/img]

no, I didn't run a filter over it in fotoshop to make it look less crap before posting it... haha... whatever gave you that idea? heh... heh... *jumps out the window*

Cheers.
Ash.

I have a suggestion... how bout running a daily sketch group... that is, have a bot with some million and something topics in it (which people can add too) and then each day you get a new topic.

Then when its called for, you can run these paint things online with the days topic?... or maybe the topic with the least/most participation in a week... or something. I dunno, I just want sumea to start a daily sketch group :D

Yeah, paint chat is pretty fun. I?d like to see it become a more regular thing. Who knows, maybe it will improve the skills?

Good idea about the topic bot, Ashen.

Since I cant join Paintchat anymore :( I used Painter for this.
[img]http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rowanfamily/MGS.jpg[/img]
The pose was referenced from a MGS3 screenshot.

So when's the next planned paint chat night going to be? This Sunday?

Whats the topic for this week?!?!?

I should be able to make it again this week, see if I can't top last weeks attempt. Who decides the topic? Should we make suggestions here? It's gonna sound nerdy but how about your favourite superhero?

heh heh i second the superhero thing :D

ok, heres another one-

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Makk/200491241732_paintchat2.jpg…]

This time Moonunit joined in and Souri and redwyre were still there

and i think i accidently put a line through the wing when trying to use the slider bar.... if only space bar worked

.....
Just a quickie, about 20mins..
[img]http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rowanfamily/crapgirl.jpg[/img]

Should have done abit more to the face, especially the neck, ah well.