General Chat

I've been viewing the rover images and updates, which I'm sure everyone finds fascinating.. even more fascinating is the prospect of [url="http://science.slashdot.org/science/04/01/09/0334253.shtml?tid=103&tid=…"]a manned mission to mars and the moon[/url], which Bush is expected to announce next week!
I'm sure it'll only cost a portion of what it cost the U.S to rebuild Iraq ($70 Billion)..

i find it very interesting. seeing pictures of another planet...even if it just looks like a wasteland.
they recently discovered that mars once had a magnetic field just like what earth has now.

so my guess is what happened on mars is just like the move 'the core' lol...

Thanks for that link, Inglis.

Another amusing and interesting video is the one on how the rovers analyse and
move about the terrain:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/video/movies/mer_rovernav_240.mov

It's big (18Mb), but worth the download if you're on broadband.

it does look a bit... bleak dosent it, still its fascinating to think of humans on the planet and colonization. But i dunno about Bush jumping in with this plan, seems to me to be a little further down on the priority list. I think bush is sort of only in it for show and if he wasnt getting that then he wouldnt have even involved himself in it.

i can see it now, America claims Mars as there own planet :P

i think they are looking for bin laden.

yeh...you couldn't miss seeing that turban from Mars...

Yeh, the landscape on Mars looks very bleak [:)]. As fascinating as the pictures of the Martian landscape are, those 3d animations that illustrate how the rover entered the atmosphere, bounced, unwravel, roll out etc are pretty awesome too!

heh heh a few years ago i would have looked at that and said "oh yeah animation thing" now im going "did they make that with maya or max...."
its pretty neat though :D

lightwave

then theres the people who actually know.... :P

Counterstrike??........never heard of it.

;)

Didn't it go gold about a month ago? Who knows what they're up to, those Valve people.

It came out on XBox in December, and PC in November I think. I've seen it in a few different shops.

The multiplayer Counterstrike came out on Xbox, but the single player CS: Condition Zero hasn't been released yet.

Actually, now that I think about it, the PC version I saw may have been a "Coming Soon" box. That was some time ago though.

Just recently got 1.6. It was a pain in the ass to install even with Broadband i'd hate to even attemp installing if i had dial up.

After having played Enemy Territory, Unreal 2 XMP, and new games like Max Payne 2, I checked out Counterstrike again after probably a years absence from the title (I used to love Counterstrike btw.. since v7.1 I think)..

*shocked at how dated it looks* [:)] .. Half an hour of CS and I'm bored of it again. I prefer something more involving, like Enemy Territory.

go hire out the game....

hahaha :)

heh heh..

Welcome, can't wait to see your stuff.

Scott.

hey man im basicly from the same walk of life as you, the 15 yr old with good intentions :P

cya around

me 15 also [8D]

Hello. Where abouts in Canberra do you hail from?

And don't worry, we are all wanna be game developers. Well except those who are professional game developers.

Anywhoo. Welcome.

quote:im probably more mature then your average 15 year old.

hehe, well I'm 20 but am very immature for my age. So I'm sure we'll get along just fine [:P].

Welcome, your lucky being 15, you can get a headstart if you practice hard! :)

Hmmm... A bunch of 15 year olds that can't spell and have bad grammar...

jesus I feel so old

quote:Hmmm... A bunch of 15 year olds that can't spell and have bad grammar...

Have bad grammar i do not. if cannot be game artist i, then yoda understudy will be me.

i didnt even have a computer when i was 15. had to entertain myself with rocks and sticks...the kids these days!!!

....that was only 4 years ago..how times have changed.

[edit] actually i did get my first computer when i was 15....but what i said still stands!!

Ionixed: me too buddy, Im frikken 28!!!

I'm 28 as well.. someone fetch me my slippers and blanky, and wheelchair me to my computer. [B)] I read somewhere that the average age for a gamer was 27 (this was when I was 27), so there are plenty of us old fuddy duddies out there..

quote:Originally posted by Aven

Hello. Where abouts in Canberra do you hail from?

And don't worry, we are all wanna be game developers. Well except those who are professional game developers.

Anywhoo. Welcome.

Im in the Chisholm area which i beleive is in Tuggeranong. [:p]

And in response to everyone, sorry i was late replying i had two friends sleepover.

Anyhow, hopefully some work will be up soon in a few days. God i wish i had a Wacom Tablet... donations, anyone? [:p]

Well then, we are pretty much next door neighbours then. I live in Gilmore. And by that Tuggeranong comment I guess you haven't been living here for too long?

As for the Wacom donations, you hit a little too late. I recently sold my old 4x5 Graphire1 for $40. Sorry about that.

quote:Originally posted by Aven

Well then, we are pretty much next door neighbours then. I live in Gilmore. And by that Tuggeranong comment I guess you haven't been living here for too long?

As for the Wacom donations, you hit a little too late. I recently sold my old 4x5 Graphire1 for $40. Sorry about that.

Wow! We are close your just up the road really, 5-10 minutes walk.
Nah i've lived here for about 6 or 7 years, its just that apparently Chisholm is a part of Tuggeranong which im sure it isnt [:D].

As for your Wacom tablet, thats ok im sure i can find one elsewhere cheap and besides im after a Intuos 2 [:p].

Overall i better start drawing before Souri kills me [:p].

Brings back memories but i think i'm just fine with the good ol' keyboard and mouse

Actually with a few simple items arcade joysticks arent exactly hard and if your upto it, you can make your PC an arcade machine by using emulators and some other items. Who doesnt want their on arcade machine anyway? Anyhow have a look there are many websites out there dedicated too converting your PC to an arcade machine! Here is just one of them, [url]http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade.htm
[/url]

I want one with like 120 buttons!

It's called a "keyboard" [;)]

Or maybe you're thinking of [url="http://www.gamespy.com/e32002/image.asp?/e32002/xbox/sb/7.jpg"]something like this[/url] from Capcom? [url="http://www.gamespy.com/e32002/xbox/sb/"]For Steel Battalion[/url]..

quote:Originally posted by Makk

I want one with like 120 buttons!

I think the maximum is either 85 or 120, anyone wanna refresh my memory.

NOTE: Thats a custom joystick/arcade machine [:D]

hey tbag sorruy but what do u think im doing with it but thank fot the link anyway .. like i was saying u can buy the component from these dudes .. I have never been able to find anyone in Aus that sells them before.. ther wicked quoll too , so u can hit the hell out of them, your never going to make a button from scratch thats as good .. he he well im not anway

True. (In response to most things Adie said)

Its the usual crap spewed forth from some journalist to feed to some middle-america right wing household.

*sigh*

Geez. I won't bother expressing any anger as I usually do at this kind of crap. It's just such a shame that people outside the game-playing demographics who've never had a chance to experience games have only these negative things to read about.

- Julian.

PS. The dude left his email address. If there are any GTA-loving NYPost readers out (and there will be) this guy will be getting hit by some serious spam soon.

GTA:Vice City is 10,000 times WORSE than paedophilia?!! *rubs eyes*

vice city...thats nothing.
i downloaded Postal 2 demo the other day to have a quick look.
you piss on people and make them vomit....now thats out really there lol.
but its a game...any person with their head on correctly knows that....

Actually, that would interesting to find out.. are there any games out there where you thought were taking things a bit too far, or offended you?

postal 2 is the worst i have seen. i played it for 10mins then uninstalled it. - bludgeoning people to death with a shovel and/or urinating on them just doesnt interest me at all.

I haven't played Postal2, but the original was pretty poor. It did make me sick. Not from the 'mature' content, just the fact that the game reaked.

I haven't played Solder Of Fortune 2 either, but the original did have some pretty extreme violence. Shooting people's intestines out is just a bit overboard.

"GTA:Vice City is 10,000 times WORSE than paedophilia?!! *rubs eyes*"

How do they know?

There have been things in games that I thought where tastless, but those things are usualy just put there to shock (are games trying to re-capture the Modern art movement?) often the more 'out there' the game the more it rides its shock value and the less real gameplay there is. BMX XXX anyone :P

Pantmonger

If there was a game that took it too far, I may have to say Manhunt. Even though the killing/snuff film aspect really doesn't bother me (in fact, it's given my little brother and I a few laughs since getting it), the never ending mindless killing coupled with a weak storyline could be seen as going too far in some people's eyes. But then, it's only a game.

I completely forgot about BMX XXX. Some friends were playing it to try to get some porn out. By them time they finally unlocked it, it would have just been easier to go to the local video store and hire out some R rated porn. That and for a PS2 game, it's graphics were right up there with Dave Mira in the PS1.

I want to know how he came by the statistic of 10,000 times more? Did he research this by asking people affected by paedophilia?

Making a stupid and illinformed comparision between a harmless form of entertainment and a tradgic, horrendous crime like paedophilia, which affects 10's of 1,000's of people around the world for the sake of ratings and money is alot more damaging than any game on the market.

Heres my own journalistic research:
"9 out of 10 journalists are not worth the skin they inhabit."
Hey its a fact, why? Because I wrote it, thats all the proof people need right?

I think the funny thing it that all these article about GTA3 have all come about because of what them two kids done. It is petty easy to say that GTA3 wasn't the only reason they done it but, I like to look at the other side of this fact and view it as a stat. Over 5 million copies of GTA sold and about two time that many would have played it. ONE, only ONE dead. Per person more poeple are killed walking to work, sould we ban that too??

I havn't found any game that has taken it to far. But then again I don't go out of my way to play a huge number of games, just don't have the time.

I think walking to work should be banned. And also work perhaps.

Scott.

Unfortunately, I can't remember the exact figure, but i think it was one in every four million people will be crushed by a Coke Machine.

Let's stand up against those murderous machines and make them pay :D

It's just another wanna-be reporter who is riding the contraversy caused by the game to further their career on a story that has already been done to death by other wanna-be reporters, probably at one piont some real reporter did a story like this but now it's just the same crap over and over.

you can sleep happy knowing that these guys (the webbie) are copping so much flak for the article, pretty much every forum i frequent had that article and its complete with the authors email down the bottom. To top it off Penny Arcade had the emails of various people involved in that website (various big wigs) should anyone want to send them a little hate.

Firstly - interesting reading regarding killer coke machines: http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2001-25.html

-

Obviously the guy writing the article is a jerk. And for gods sake, how come every article about GTA refers to the "sleep with hooker, kill hooker" gameplay mechanic? The game is about experimentation, so how are all these media types finding this out? Yeah...

I don't understand why Rockstar (and Take Two) open themselves to this kind of trouble. Why push the envelope? I played GTA3 enough to appreciate the crimespree side of things; car theft is glorified in the movies so thats a no brainer. But why include decapitations and mortal kombat style blood letting when a few red blood sprites will do?

Something i find personally interesting is that games like GTA3 are developed in the first place. Consider the following

quote:...the fundamental goal of a larger game...is to take you away to a wonderful place, and there let you do an amazing thing.

Books and movies can?t do that. They can take you away to a wonderful place, but they can?t let you do an amazing thing. That?s the power of interactivity. That?s what makes this medium unique, and that?s what makes it important.

Therefore, the design of a game begins with the question, ?What dream am I going to fulfil??

Perhaps it?s a dream of exploring a dungeon infested with monsters. Perhaps it?s a dream of coaching a football team. Perhaps it?s a dream of being a fashion designer. But before you do anything else, you must dream the dream. Understand it. Feel it. Know who dreams it with you and why.
Ernest Adams
http://www.designersnotebook.com/Design_Philosophy/design_philosophy.htm

Perhaps it's a dream of becoming the most powerful crime dude EVER!
I'm not having a go at GTA3 or rockstar. I have to respect the fact that they have sold so many damn games. I just find the thought of someone at Rockstar actually sharing Ernest Adam's philosophy amusing.

On a side note, its interesting to see that one line of dialogue about the haitian community (which has been removed) has landed Take Two in court... GTA might just be banned, but not because of its violent content. Once again, why even open yourself to that kind of trouble?

just my $3.52
cheers

I don't really think that anyone has to really give this guy shit about his writting. He did a pretty good job of it himself. Regardless of what he wrote, it was just really poorly written.

smeg, i don't see what you find so mundane about GTA...perhaps you steal cars, and shoot people as a daily exercise?
The amazing thing doesn't have to be something that doesn't exist on this earth (as we know it). It simply needs to be something that the player does not do in their everyday life, therefore it is amazing to them.
Also, you seem to be taking ernest adams very brief word as the be all and end all of game design. Might i remind you the The Sims, the best selling pc game of all time, is also probably one of the least "amazing" games every created. And, although there is something to be said for good marketing, a game doesn't become a best-seller if it is complete crap.
As far as the haitian thing goes, it's as stupid as that game (can't remember the name) which had a level with a quebec based terrorist organisation and quebec threw a fit about it. It's completely moronic that people are that uptight. If the world was populated with more of these people we wouldn't be able to see any games with any semi-realistic scenarios.
CYer, Blitz

Saw this on penny arcade.

[url]http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/04/1/13/18006955.cfm[/url]

Bloody hell.. Someone teach these people how to secure their networks.. Sheesh.

Well it's not as simple as that, in a targetted attack, a "fan" could simply just enclose a macro virus / trojan into their email and actually write a decent letter as well. Then when the programmer or lead or designer or someone on the team reads it they get the trojan in the system, and hence all network security is removed really.

And with a custom trojan virus used the virus detection utilities might not even pick it up.

Yeah, that kinda sux when you get targetted attacks. I guess the safest approach is to completely isolate the LAN (with the project on it) from the WAN.

On the upside, leaks do produce a lot of hype & publicity for the game developer.

I'm not sure if it's the case here, but there is also the problem when developers send early builds to the press for "preview" articles. So it can be more difficult that just keeping the developers network secure, you have to either worry about anyone else you send it to (publishers, press).
CYer, Blitz

That's true. I'm pretty sure that Doom3 was leaked due to people at ATI. It is also the reason why Doom3 became an 'nVidia Powered Product'.

So fo really good security, you would need to have an isolated LAN. Don't make the game known to anyone. Should the game become known, don't trust anyone. Now where is the fun in that?

An alpha version of [url="http://www.battle.net/forums/wow/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=924669&P=…"]World of Warcraft[/url] has been leaked as well.

hmmm..lets see...
a) wait in a line to download it for 8 hours. download 2gb. connect to slow crappy server to play alpha version of the game with probably 10-20 people. ...

option b) wait for final game to be released....

ill pick b.

[edit]500 posts - yay...and still dangerous. damn you souri for always increasing the ratings right before i get to deadly lol.

Make me :)

happy ... new... year

*spews all over the keyboard*

Happy new year...... yay for 2004.... sooooo..... anything happened yet?

only 355 days till christmas!!

Inglis. You are going to hell in a handbasket :p

[?]
a handbasket hey.....
least ill have something to barter with satan when i get there. [8D]

*headbutts everyone in this thread*

[}:)]

nooo spikey cow horns!!

ahem any resolutions?

I'm going for one that is easy to carry out. Make this year better than the last :)

First thing I suggest is posting this on a tech support forum. The ones at pcpowerplay.com helped when I was having troubles.
It's recommended you work out your mother board first.. It'll be written on the board.. so open your case and have a look.. Write it down and slap it into google..

Sounds like dodgy ram though..

Second. Did you take out the ram? If it's still crashing, you should be able to rule it out.. If you remove the ram, and the crashes stop happening, problem solved.

If thats not your problem, it may be caused by a number of things.. Temperature stands out as a possibility, they can cause blue screens of death. It could also be a majorly rooted file causing you problems. That about exhausted my knowledge of computers.

http://www.eyo.com.au/
Prices.. This is where I buy my crap from.. They're slightly more expensive then say, computer fairs and classifieds, but they are backed up with warranty.. Either way, it'll give you an estimate of what you can afford.

First thing I'd check would be the motherboard manual, to make sure that you're inserting the RAM into the correct slots on the motherboard, the motherboards are usually picky about what RAM can go where, and what combinations you are allowed to have. Although if your computer starts it shouldn't be a problem.

I kinda had this problem with another computer recently, and I would recommend getting a memory debugger program, memtest x86 or something like that. A friend of mine got it and I have a copy burnt onto CD that I use for testing machines.

Also if you want to upgrade your computer and you only have PC133 RAM - not DDR333 (PC2700) or DDR266 (PC2100) then you won't be able to, new motherboards - especially Pentium 4 and Athlon XP boards require DDR266+ RAM, so you kinda made a mistake upgrading the RAM right now. Actually I don't think I know *any* Pentium 4 800FSB motherboards that use PC133 RAM, and if they did the system would be downright dog slow too!

there was the virus a while back that was doing that (i had it). cant remember what it was called.

msblast.exe virus i think.

if its that you need to get a little program off the Symantec website called "FixBlast"

Thankaz, ill tell me friend about it, thankaz again guys

Yeah the blaster worm, i had it to. It shuts your computer down soon as you log onto the net. You just have to download the security update from the microsoft website. If it comes up on the computer then go to run and type in "shutdown -a" this stops ot from shutting down and you can download the patch. The problem only occurs with XP.

quote:type in "shutdown -a" this stops ot from shutting down

i would have liked to have known that when i got it. instead i had to move the modem over to my old computer, setup connection. connect. download then move it back over....

I actually got the fix a week before it hit, so I was very lucky. I think that I am about one of eight people in the world that didn't get hit by it :)

my computer was shutting itself down for about 1? weeks before I even heard about it on the news.

I told my frined about this, and he read and said that it aint the it anit msblast, so anything else would be good.

Heh... most annoying aspect of msblast virus for me was that the damn thing shuts down the IE when i'm downloading the MS updates to fix it... AI anyone??

I didn't think Alien Resurrection was toooo bad. It's still watchable (I usually watch it for the set designs though), but it's definately the weakest out of the four. I wish they had done something different than "run through carrier, escape with small ship, blast big alien out into space". I thought Alien 3 was pretty good. It's just that it came after two brilliant movies, so it never really stood a chance. Anyway, I have the Legacy set, so I can't comment on all the new editions and extras you've seen *grumble*..

My three biggest gripes with Alien Res are: 1. Joss Whedon wrote it. Come on this guys biggest call to fame is buffy. Enough Said. He made it too damn bright and all the dialogue is week as shit. Every time Johner opens his mouth, his character loses more and more credit. Like Storm in X-Men1. 2. Fox decided to do a screw job to H.R. Giger and say that he never even designed the aliens. Who the hell are they kidding? Anyone who has seen his work knows that he is the aliens. The lack of his designs showed up with that alien hybrid and the 'reject' Ripleys. 3. The acting was pretty pathetic on the whole. The best evidence of this is at the beginning when General Perez is talking about the new Ripley. That piece of acting was just horrible :/ The most odd thing is that Sigourney Weaver doesn't do any commentary. They even have Newt doing commentary. The thing that makes it even more odd is that she co-produced all the films as well. Overall Souri, the Quadrilogy is very worth it as the Legacy set didn't have too much in the way of makings of right? Plus the DC of Alien3 is cool :D

i might go and hire them out today..refresh my memory. it been quite sometime since i watched them.

Resurrection is the one where the white alien gets sucked out into space through a hole in the window correct??

Yep. That be it.

When I saw Resurection in the cinema for the first time, and every time I have seen it since, I wish that instead of finding the room with the failed Ripley experiments they found a room of successful Ripley experiments... Image the crew mates walking around with Ripley #7 (from her tatoo) and walking into a room with six identical Ripleys all moving with that scary, silent hive mind coordination that the aliens have... and then the crew realise that when they walked in the room #7 is behind them...

I actually like quite a few movies that are generally considered bad because I have a tendancy to see the movie that could have been, the potential of concepts or imagry that was not quite in the movie as shown.

I agree what Alien: Resurrection was definately more light hearted than the others. General Perez was pretty much a buffoon. The part where the alien punched the whole in the back of his head, which he pulled some brain matter out of to look at, was just comical - and most likely not the effect the writer had wanted. It's not looking good for the Alien franchise. Scott Ridley isn't doing #5, James Cameron has showed some interest in it but nothing has been heard since, and the Alien vs Predator movie that's in production now has a pretty bad script from those who have seen it.

Alien Vs Predator was always doomed from the begining. It started with the original script that was based on the first novel (awesome story), but the budget needed would have been fairly extreme. They put it on hold to make Alien Res in a hopes that it would generate enough funding. For some reason when the idea of an Alien Vs Predator movie resurfaced it was being directed by the guy who did Resident Evil (can't remember his name off the top of my head), and the official short description of it sounded piss weak. It is a pity as that could be one seriously kick arse flick opertunity :( I was just pretty anoyed with Res as they really should have left Ripley dead and gone into extended universe. Imagine Alien: Genocide as a movie :D For those who have never read it, it involves the harvesting of Alien Queen jelly to make a really psychotic drug. They travel to an Alien hive world and there are two Alien colonies battling it out :D

Firstly. I agree with you entirely about that little trollop. I had never even heard of her until about a month ago. Now everyone seems to talking about her. Why? She is about as good looking as a hat full of arseholes (love that saying :D).

I use Eudora for all my emails. It's interface is pretty sluggish (compared to Outlook), but it doesn't have all the security issues. I don't use any spamming screening software as there is an easier way.

Have your ISP based email. give it to friends and people who you trust. Make some bogus Hotmail (or any other free email client), and use that for signing up to anything on the net. If it gets to the point where it is flooded with that many Viagra and Porn adds, cancel it and start a new one.

I know that doesn't help now, but it is a thought for the future.

I guess one solution would be to go and use Outlook's message filtering stuff, or try and find some open-source alternative.

And also don't give your address when you're trying to look at porn, or else you'll get ~30 spams a day about things like Paris Hilton. [:P]

Scott.

use someone elses computer if you insist on looking up porn.
they are catching your address when you visit those sites.....im guessing lol.

I er have not deliberately been looking up porn for many years now :p I think that I am one of the few people who hasn't been spammed with lot's of porn adds. I'm not complaining though :D

Did Paris Hilton have any part in releasing those home videos? If not, then I think it's pretty unfair that she's labelled as some sort of floozy. I don't think she intended that home video public consumption. Blame the entrepreneurs cashing in on someone elses misfortune, and society's hunger to pry into celebrity's lives.
As for spam, never ever ever paste your main email address anywhere on the internet. That includes registering online forms for software, on bulletin boards, ANYWHERE. Create a hotmail account for something like that. I've noticed that you have your email address as your message footer here, and seeing as this forum is cached by google and other search engines pretty regularly, email harvesters can easily grab it. I did a test a while ago, though, by putting a hotmail address on here to see if I get any spam as a result, but didn't receive any. I did place my sumea@hotmail address in a forum message at polycount, planetquake, and urban terror last year, and I ended up with about 100 spam mails a day, so that account is pretty much useless.
I use Eudora as well. I think it uses bayesian filtering to spot spam. There's a free version which displays some small banner ads.

No she didnt have anything to do with that vid, well she let her boy friend film them fucking, than years later he it surfaced to the internet, by the x boy friend, now her laywers are banning it, which i thinked worked, csaue its of the net now, as i was at the site trying to get it, and it said last week to get before it goes ofline, i need to ben 18, which i had nothing to claim i was.

quote:she's labelled as some sort of floozy

its not just the video. she really is stupid. they both are. when they came out to australia they proved it in a series of tv interviews (e.g. at the cup). and then they went on roy and hg and looked about as smart as a 5 year old. and if you had seen them on oprah it showed them in their real life. they are famous for being rich.
on oprah they said 'we had to do our washing once...what was that thing called??' then they sat there for a few seconds thinking out aloud..then went 'washing machine!!!!'.

[edit]
i just dont understand why people care about them. they are just a name with lots of money. and i feel stupid watching them.

Still fuck able, like the Minogue sisters.

quote:Originally posted by codyalday

Still fuck able, like the Minogue sisters.

Each to their own. I personally wouldn't touch them with a ten foot clown pole, but I have the same feelings towards Spears (I have been called crazy for that).

My old Email was spammed to crap when I registered for a domain name and didn't pay the extra $10 for secure details. Next time I buy one, I will get it secure.

Yeah, a bit brain dead........... but she is kinda hot though.

;)

I think my email has been added to one of those lists through some kind of forum, I've never given out this one to any pr0n sites (as sad as it may seem, I haven't used the internet to get nude pictures of any 'celebrities' in many years).

As for Paris Hilton being a tosser - well I really think that one is obvious. As for her being fuck-able?

Hell no!

She looks stupid as all hell as it is, I can't imagine how stupid she'd look mid-climax :)

hahaha

id imagine it would be something like a hat stand on a trampoline. [^]

ok..this thread is heading in the right direction for a closing lol.

Well that Australian idol finalist didn't say no to a hat stand on a trampoline... I'm sure he went to sleep with a smile on his face ;)

That video of her is over rated, its filmed in night vision........So a friend tells me ;)

*still scratching head over the "hat stand on a trampoline" comments*

Someone needs to explain that one...

So the general advice is to not give out email addresses. Ahh the wonders of the internet.

I think what is needed is for the Open Source community to come up with an alternate email-like protocol for sending email-like messages with. With the exception that you have to be invited to join the club and authorised to send messages etc.

I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard, and if the proper technologies are developed ISP's would jump on board with it all.

quote:Originally posted by Souri

*still scratching head over the "hat stand on a trampoline" comments*

Just think bouncy bouncy with a skeleton ;)

eeewwwwwwww.... lol

whats another year on close to a decade....

how many times have they rebuilt this thing? didnt it start on the Unreal 1 engine?

What a load of pants, even if it does come out it will get flamed.

Nah. It actaully started with the Quake 2 engine (Yep. It be that old :) ). I just find that it is amusing that they have always said 'it will be released when it is done', like in the article. Yet they then say 04/05 :P

I guess we just have to see what it is like when it (eventually) comes out...

is it possible to stay ahead of the technology curve when doing one project for so long?
I think that something like hl2 is going to blow it out of the water by being released about the same time.

I think if its a huge flop, we'll probably see an end of huge games with equally huge development teams.
To publishers, it's just not feasible spendning millions of dollars that takes 7 years to get a return on - and theres no guarentee that it will break even.

It'll be unfortunate if thats the case, games are getting too short, I'm finding it hard to justify spending $90 on something that will keep me entertained for a mere 10 hours.

Soooo.. With some luck, DNF will be a kickass game that you play for weeks before getting close to finishing..

I'd laugh if there were only 6 - 8 hours in DNF. I'd laugh hard.

And then cry?

One of 3d realms artists let it slip that they would be using normal mapping, It was mentioned on his work history page on his personal website, unfortunately the entry is now gone and it didnt go into specifics as to what capacity the normal mapping would be used

I would be surprised if they have it finished by then.

I used to think that the "when it's done" attitude was a good thing for games. But I realised a long time ago that a 'game' is a solution to a problem within given constraints - including time. You have to be able to predict where games are headed, and if you can't, you'll spend 7-8 years making a game that will ultimately be no better than something that took 2 years to make.

Yep. They cannot justify ~8 years development time. And if they can - i will both take my hat off to them, and eat it promptly afterwards. And i have a big hat.

cheers

half life 2 actually has only taken 2 years to make so far... plus 1 more year is 3...

meh....I am long past the point of caring about DNF

any game that started development with the quake 1 engine is taking forever. even if it was just "experimenting".

I didn't think the original half life took 5 years to make?

It was released in 1998...my memory is a bit foggy, so even if it was released at the end of 1998, then they would have had to start working on it at the start of 1994, which is about when doom 2 was finished.

Just seems chronologically out of place.

Whenever they say that they have been working on a game for 5 years, that can mean a few different things. It may not always be physically making the game. They may also take the conception stage into account.

Although that is a crucial part of any designing process, one year of concepting that they mention could just be the occasional thinking. It seams that if people think that a game has been thought about and in developement for a long time then it will mean that it will have more effort put into it.

I'm sure that HL2 was being 'made' at the samae time as HL1. Although that could merely be the thought of wanting to make a series of games. They probably didn't really start their ideas for HL2 until HL1 was finished though. They have said on numerous occassions that the fans have influenced how they wanted HL2 to be. Therefore, any work on HL2 that was done before HL1 was finished may have been fairly minimal.

Without some sort of diary, it is very difficult to know what level of work they have done during the game's cycle.

i just remember watching a video of it back when it was on the unreal engine (i think).
they should have released it then...looked heaps better than anything else on the market.
they could have been onto duke nukem forever 2....lol

Marty - the way that question has been phrased it doesn't necessarily imply that HL2 was being developed for 5 years, just that some development for it started back then. Another thing is that the Half Life 1 SDK didn't ship the same moment that the game did, it did at least a year after...

But if you want to count it that way, HL2 development started with the Quake1 engine, which was done in 1995-6, therefore you could say that its been in development for over 8 years now!

3.1....33mhz....

ive got a feeling those files might be lost to time :)

I'd say stick to DOS on that laptop, either that, or try to change to Linux, although if the laptop is that old it might not work with Linux.

ouch, its news like this that gets u freaked about going into this industry

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! etc.
followed by a coupla hundred thousand very loud swearwords

Dang, I love fallout 1 & 2. I loved being able to run around using a flamethrower on anyone, or kicking the odd dog in the eye or groin area with an aimed shot. Stealing off the rich and giving to me, to get richer. Setting my machine gun on automatic and firing a few rounds into the enemy and watch there limbs explode, and lol the little dialogue box that says you just shot "whoever" in the groin for 150 damage, and he is on ground unconsious makes me laugh every time. Then you turn on your friend for shooting you in the back 5 times for the 10th time( I know he was only trying to help but, damn he needs target practice,) trying to hit your enemies, so you do a aimed shot to his left arm blow it off with your pump action, then do an aimed shot to his groin to finish it off. ahhhh I miss fallout.

www.cougar.com.au for Canberran prices. All the systems I have made though, I have done by buying parts out at the computer markets.

Haven't looked at computer prices for a year now, so I can't really help out much.

CPU, MB and RAM are the most important. A good monitor is also very important. Next comes graphics card, HDD and whatever else.

Dell have some good value performance PC's for that sort of money... I just can't believe I'm actually recommending them.

I would say avoid the pre-built computers at all, they mark them up like crazy.

I recently built two cheaper systems for my parents and their friends, and I bought the parts seperately and assembled them, saving a bundle. Do that if you can and know about hardware and software, or at least have good friends that do.

A sytstem I would recommend is something about a 2.5 GHz range, at least 512MB ram (DDR333 or better, if the motherboard supports it) - I recently used up all the RAM running word, photoshop, illustrator and a few other small things - 80GB 7200rpm HDD is a minimum. Although the biggest tip is to get a really good motherboard, that will make everything so much easier, MSI, ASUS they make good boards, AOpen are good too, EPOX are also good, but only some of the time. The graphics card will probably be your biggest expense, I would suggest trying to get a middle-of-the-range board, since they are a good combination of price / performance, recently friends of mine got Radeon 9600 Pro's, which they are satisfied with.

And as with the debate between AMD and Intel, the only thing I suggest is you avoid the Celerons, since you can get an Athlon at a similar price for better performance. I myself have an Intel P4, which is nice, but I got my parents Athlon's, and with a good cooling utility program (yes software) they can run at about the same temperature as the Intels. So really it depends on what motherboard you want to get, oh yeah, and avoid RAMBUS and SD-RAM boards...

If that person lived in Adeliade then I would probably be able to find decently cheap prices for them, but alas. Queensland has the cheapest prices anyways.

--EDIT--

Well I could estimate the price of a decent computer:

$160 Athlon XP 2500+
$200 Motherboard <- Can probably get it with onboard Sound and/or 100Mbit LAN
$130 512MB DDR333 RAM (could get more, but not worth it atm)
$200 120GB 7200rpm HDD (Seagate, Western Digital are alright) <- try to get 8MB cache
$300 Radeon 9600 Pro <- Decent brand, cheaper one's are $280 or so
$150 SB Audigy 2 (if you want "better" sound)
$60 16x DVD Drive
$75 52x52x32x CD Burner
$15 1.44" FDD (If you *really* want one, they're not needed now)
$120 A good case and power supply, AOpen, or some other fancy one

Optional Items:
$200 19" monitor
$200 One of those fancy Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse combos

If you want to spend more money I would say get a better cpu, although the price grows exponentially the higher the MHz...
I would also avoid the AMD Athlon 3200+, since it doesn't compare to Intel's offering!

Daemin sound he know what he is on about, but I think 1 gig of ram is need. and $200 One of those fancy Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse combos. Wireless broads and mice and not need at all they done work as well as a normal cord mouse you need battlys and the only reason I belive poeple buy them is to say, hey look man my mouse and keybroad has no cord man I'm cool.

Ahhh - but for those of us who have PC's in the same room as beds we can sit back and fiddle with the pc from afar ;)

The 2 cheapest places I have seen for online or store, computer hardware would be gamedude,or Global Computer Group; http://www.globalgroup.net.au/gloshop/customer/home.php
Both located in Brisbane. I recently bought all my hardware myself and put my computer together myself. Its not really hard these days to do it, a little searching on google for info and you can make your own system. The biggest thing is picking the hardware you want making sure its all compatible and you get the best bang for your buck.

My complete system cost me at the time about $1600. I got a asus A7N8X-X, i picked this mobo because I knew i wanted to overclock my AMD 2500 Barton Core CPU just by going to my BIOS and raising my FSB to 400, which makes that CPU run eqivilent to a barton core 3200 cpu, which cost at the time an extra $500 dollars around about.

For max performance with Maya or Max, get a dual CPU motherboard, and use dual CPU's, these programs are made to really make full use of dual CPU over the single ones.

I also got a seagate 80 gb hdd 7200 rpm, this is the min i would use these days for hdd, I like seagate, reliable, fast and very quiet, and there getting really cheap now.

I think go for a good 19 inch CRT monitor around $300 brand new.
Defenitly need a dvd rom, and a CD Burner.

I modded my case and put 2 fans in the clear perspex side panel for extra cooling, one above the CPU, and one just above the Graphics card,(I can manually control the fan speed) and i got a fan in the case at the rear blowing hot air out the back. Cooling is really important i think with the heat that the new graphics cards and CPU's generate. I also have a huge heatsink and fan( not the original ones that came with the CPU because I overclock i need better cooling), and it runs cool as a bar fridge in a blizzard.

I use tiny BGA kingmax 512 DDR RAM, pick the appropiate type for your motherboard. ie PC3200 etc... Im getting another 512 stick of ram soon, i would really consider about going with 2 sticks of 512 ram each.

Graphics cards are like the CPU WAR (Intel vs AMD). It really comes down to personal preference, (Nvidia or ATI),Strictly speaking if this computer is going to be a proper workstation only intended for pure 3d animation etc non gaming, check out the maya or max websites for there recommended graphic cards, be warned though proper workstation cards are very expensives $1000-10'000+), but are extremely better for 3d animation then a gaming card.

Personally I like to do some gaming and currently learning 3d animation so I go for gaming cards because workstation cards dont cut it in gaming, but gaming graphics cards are good enough to learn 3d with, and will get you along way before upgrading.

Keyboard any really, and mouse at least the 3 button variety, dont even know if you can get less then 3 now lol. Unless you buy an apple computer.

Going to need Windows XP Professional, not XP home, or you can use Windows 2000 I think for Maya and Max.

You can build a really good computer yourself for way under $2500 these days, and with the saved money I would get a wacom graphics tablet, even the small one like i got is better then nothing, there a must i think, Get used to them now and make them become second nature, it really speeds up work flow and in this industry speed is as important as the quality of your work. Also a Scanner and a Printer will become very handy. I got a Canon, and im not really impressed with them, I would recommend paying a little more for a better quality printer then a Canon if your serious about your art work.

Just to add personal preference here.

Now days most MOBO's come with RAID arrays - I have two 60gig HDD's running as a mirror.
I am very serious about keeping my data backed up and the mirror is great for adding that protection.

I would think for an artist this would be damn useful. After a while the files get quite big and eat up space quickly. At least this way you know you have a spares if anything goes really wrong (tho I still think backing up to CD is a GOOD thing).

Wow Jeremiah, I have a Canon i850 printer and it does some of the best prints I have laid my eyes on. That is including prints that have been done on $20,000 lasers as well. The only draw back is that you really do need to use photo paper to get perfect results.

I still think that dual CPUs are a little too expensive for the preformance it brings. Very few apps running under Windows can use dual CPUs well. Put the money from an extra CPU to better use. Like....

A lot of people will disagree with me, but I think that a 17 inch LCD is a better idea than a 19 inch CRT. Even with the massive price difference.

. No glare. I can actually use my computer with my blinds up and strain to see what I am doing.
. No Radiation (well a HELL of a lot less). Lessens the chances of ever needing glasses.
. 1/10th the power consumption. Speaks for itself really.
. Better colour/contrast. Pure white and pure black. CRTs just can't do that (mainly due to the glass with reflections). All the other colours in the spectrum are a lot brighter and vibrant as well.
. My entire monitor is about 10cm thick and weighs about 6-7kg. A lot easier to transport to LANs :)

The downside to an LCD is the cost. The extra $400 is really worth it though. When i frist got my 'new' system a year ago, I took it into the AIE and hooked up both my LCD and a Sony Trinitron CRT. The Trinitron just didn't stand a chance.

Daemon is spot on with the Motherboard being the most important thing. Every other part of your system has to plug into it, so get a good one.

Also, get a good computer chair. Not like the broken piece o' crap I am currently using. The back support broke long ago so it is stuck in one position :/

My Canon printer is a S400SP and it did do some really good prints on photo quality paper but these days the printing head doesnt want to seem to stay in alignment even after I run the print head alignment in the maintenance section. And it hasnt really had a big work load, so it should have better reliability. They do good prints when new, but they dont seem to work like new for long, compared to other slightly more pricey brands.

I agree with the Dual CPU's but it would definitly be better if you where in a studio environment in my opinion because even the slightest increase in efficency and performance leads to faster production etc... Anyway this is for someone wanting to start out with 3d animation so I would go with just 1 cpu. It doesnt hurt though to give some options to think about. Thats the hard part about peoples advice, every one has there own opinion, and when it comes to buying computer hardware it can be very confusing even with all the help. Specially CPU (AMD vs Intel) and Graphic Cards (Nvidia vs ATI). Personally for DX9 go for ATI, for now.

Good point about monitors Aven, if you can afford it go for 17 inch LCD. Specially if you LAN alot. Carting around a 19 Inch CRT monitor in a Suzuki Swift on the back seat gets pretty stressfull watching it roll around if you didnt secure it properly.

One thing I've learnt if you're going to go the way of building your own PC cheaply - don't skimp on the PSU, the case or the RAM. Otherwise you're asking for one of those systems with inexplicable problems (dammn it keeps locking up all the time, argh!).

Okay so that dosen't really apply to the case, but atleast spend abit of money and get a reasonable case (not one of those $40-$50 chinese jobs with the so-called '400W' power supply in them). I made that mistake and found out what u pay for (with a few cut fingers....). Buy a good NAME BRAND PSU with lots of power (450W minimum I would say). This component should last you through several major upgrades if you're lucky and it's well worth the extra money spent when you consider that it's providing power to the rest of your investment. Plus graphics cards and hard drives chew up alot of power these days (as do neons, bubble LEDs, fans and EL IDE cables when all put together, LOL).

Same goes with RAM - as many have already said - name brand and within the spec of your motherboard.

Also don't forget when you're buying those hard drives or that PSU that you can get a legitimate OEM copy of WinXP Professional for something like $300. For backup I'd probably go with another HDD but maybe not as a mirrored RAID setup as Jacana mentioned - instead I'd buy an external firewire HDD case and put a hard drive in it. That way you can store your backups away when you're not using them.

I've also heard that gaming graphics cards can be 'hacked' into professional cards using software. I don't know if this still is the case but it was with the older GeForces. Usually the only difference between the professional cards and the gaming cards were the drivers - the extra cost of the professional cards comes from the development, licensing and certification costs that the specialised drivers command. The hacks would simply unlock special features in the driver that were normally turned off if a 'gaming' card was detected. I don't think it's as simple as that anymore though.

Some excellant advice and infomation there, thanks guys.I'm not sure the buyer will go the components route, but I would recommend they do - it's definately much cheaper. Hopefully they'll know someone who can put it together for them.

And yeh, certainly, $2,500 can get you a pretty good system. I'd be happy with something like this [url="http://www.tpg.com.au/online/"]for half that price[/url]! It's a laptop, which I know isn't very upgradable, but for learning 3d with and do all your general computing things like email, internet etc it's great! It's darn cheap and looks very slim too [:)]

Wow. Cool find Souri. That is insanely cheap. Laptops are really starting to come into the field of being affordable now.

A computer store should be able to put the components together for a reasonable price. I know Gamedude put systems together for $60, but I wouldn't be buying important components from them. Firstly, all of their items only come with a one year warranty, no matter what it is. Secondly, their return policy is a little dogey. I've had friends with faulty equipment return stuff there, and it has taken weeks for them to admit there is something wrong with the system.

Even if the prices sound too good to be true, check out the warranties they provide, and make sure they aren't too dogey. An extra $100 on parts with better warranty is worth it.

Nah, I have to say to research teh components that you want to get, and then assemble it yourself. It really is cheaper and easier and you'll know far more about your computer if you do it yourself.

But the main point I want to stress is do your research, there is no substitute for it!

I have found UMart to have prices comparable to Gamedude: www.umart.com.au

You can get complete computer packages at [url]www.betterpc.com.au[/url]

I'm looking at buing a new PC (no monitor/kb/mouse/speakers, just the box) and right now I'm looking at around $1100-$1300.

I'm trying to get out as cheap as I can while still leaving some upgrade paths...

So, that's an AMD-64 3000+ with PCI-express MB, 512Mb RAM, one HD of random size, CDR/DVD (not DVDR), and an nVidia 6600GT card.

umart,precision and gamedude (all brissy) are all in the ballpark for pricing, so it's not that hard to find this stuff at a good price.

Souri, that Laptop looks fantastic, but don't forget that cheaper laptops are usually designed for 4-6 hrs per day max use (read the story at http://www.thisistrue.com/dellhell.html). You'll pay more for a 'workstation' class laptop normally.

http://www.fluidtek.com.au/webcontent46.htm

These guys have some really cheap prices.

Why not DVDR? They cost like $20 more than a DVD reader or CD burner, and i'd be surprised if these days they even made a CD burner DVD reader in one, and a seperate DVD reader + CD burner would cost more than a DVDR i'm sure.
CYer, Blitz

I'm more of a fan of ATI then nVidia, so......

The visual quality on the Radeons is nicer, and from benchmarks I have seen, the only FXs worth buying are 5900+. Up to you though.

I would say get the Radeon 9600 PRO, since it has better performance, but it costs more...

Friends of mine got the Pro version for about $280...

if you don't mind spending a bit more, go for the Radeon 9600XT (better performance than the pro), i just got one for $300. comes with a voucher for half life 2 as well, so its worth it

You'd be better off with an FX 5700 over the 5600 by a long shot. $264. Also, what you buy depends on what you want to use it for - games or development.

I say go the Radeon 9600 (completely biased opinion). Better anti-aliasing and it's a fairly capable card in regards to frame rate even using all the shaders etc.

Okay. :throwing down the gauntlets: I'll accept the challenge :)

Er. From what I can guess, you sign up and then you have to draw/design a character that could woop the other person's character's arse. Is that correct?

Just joined :)

quote:Does someone on the forums just annoy the hell out of you?

Well at least I know where I stand Camper :)

LOL :). You don't annoy me Aven, I just wanted a challenge :P

Shit - this would be an excellent format for a Sumea challenge. It could be done for 2d challenges (to allow those that can't model to enter) or 3d challenges.

Hah! I would say bring it!!! :P
But looks like Aven has accepted :)

OMG!! Justin Sweet Vs Craig Mullins *drools*
OMG!! Justin Sweet Vs Craig Mullins *drools*
OMG!! Justin Sweet Vs Craig Mullins *drools*
Now that would just kick all kinds of ass!

Haha Camper. I'm just giving you shit :D Had to do some trash talking ;)

Are you willing to get an ICQ or Yahoo account or do I have to get MSN? Be good to chat outside of here :)

I agree whole heartedly with Jonathan. This would be a great idea for 2D artists. It would also be good for those who just want a challenge for a new 3D character as well :) The plus side is that since it can just be illustrational, it can be done in less than a day too.

quote:Originally posted by Makk

Hah! I would say bring it!!! :P
But looks like Aven has accepted :)

OMG!! Justin Sweet Vs Craig Mullins *drools*
OMG!! Justin Sweet Vs Craig Mullins *drools*
OMG!! Justin Sweet Vs Craig Mullins *drools*
Now that would just kick all kinds of ass!

You seem very excited.

Do you walk around constantly with a bib?

I'm just playing, dude. *insert smiley here*

This is an excellent idea - the 'Showdown' - why not have the Sumea showdown, where we create a 1 on 1 battle scene showing your character beating the shit out of the other persons character? You could post a WIP or rough concept for the other artist to interpret so that they have an idea of the other character for their character to fight? Thus, 2d artists are creating an original character plus interpreting their 'opponent's' character - a handy skill.

Plus, if you wanna take it a step further - do the 3d aspect of the challenge (including a 'home' stage/environment -- assuming that your character is fighting on home ground) so even if you 'lose' the first part, you could win the second part? Stalemates could be possible too.

lol. Makk. You just have to wait your turn :)

I know that this is a bit down the track, but I wouldn't mind challenging Alti to a one on one :)

I Have MSN Aven (bensmotocross@hotmail.com) ICQ# 343632504

I've got no problem with trash talk, not that it will do you any good[:p].

haha Jonathan, I tend to go into "fanboy mode" when it comes to Justin Sweet and Craig Mullins........if you couldnt tell!! [:o)]

Looking forward to seeing you two battle! [8D]
It would be cool to enter myself but my plate is currently full, well, overflowing actually [:(]

Edit: wow, the battle between Seb and Manley is getting heated!!
Especially with Landmates comments!
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=11bca849d6b40b54c2d38…

It is actually a pretty weak thing to have such a heated argument about :/ It doesn't matter what medium it is in, it can still look kick arse.

Landmate's comment was kinda.... cruel. Straight to the point, but very cruel.

Cool 100th post.

That thread got so heated that it got deleted. Damn I didn't even get to see it.
Anyway I really don't see the point in fighting over the medium, I'll be using a combination of Pencils, Inks and Photoshop. Aven can use whatever he likes, it's the skill not the medium that should decide it.

Makk: Looking forward to seeing Aven and I battle? errr...thanx. I'm looking forward to it myself. It's pretty good motivation, ever since Aven accepted my challenge I've been working on my weaknesses, learning new techniques and re-enforcing pre-existing skills. It's a shame your too busy to enter, maybe next time.

Just a small update, It's finally started. Here is Aven's and I's thread:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15180

Cool, you guys have chosen a unique theme/topic

I thought I'd give the thread a kick and let you guys know that Aven and I have got a few pics posted. Okay correction: Aven has done a tonne of kick ass pics, while I have done... errr... stick figures [:P].

Wow. Aven, some of those chick + chain pics are excellent.

I recommend anyone reading this follow the link 3 posts up and check them out.

cheers

Like the concept, Aven but my Nazi-Proportion sense is tingling and thus, those legs in the last pic are too long. I realise that she's wearing heels that a dominatrix would probably only wear, but even then, they're a bit too long. I think part of it is the bent knee on the right.

I like the concept with the close ups best.

On a side note - she looks like a girl who cries during sex. Oops. Did I say that out loud?

I really like your style - it kinda reminds me of Witchblade or Michael Turners Fathom. Your style seems to have a flavour of it's own, which for me, is the one of the most important things about someone's work. Flavour is what makes someone's work standout and stand apart from everyone elses stuff.

I still reckon this should be the format for the next challenge.

Who's with me?!

Thanks for the comments guys.

Ben - Thanks for the kind words, but at least you have started. Now roll out some more pics :D I also really have to thank you for challenging me. It has given me a serious kick in the arse to actually do something. Plus it has been a ball :D

Smeg - Thanks. I still have to do some colouring now. That is something that I have very little experience in, so I will really have to try hard.

Jonathan - If it helps I was born in Germany :D Just a few years too late though. I have always drawn my female (and male, just not as badly) with overly long legs. When I keep them towards realsitic proportions, they just feel/look odd. Plus, it helps to show that she is more petit :) They aren't really dominatrix style heels, as there isn't any platform to them :) I would have loved to have stayed with the first pic, but the rules changed slightly and I was having a shit of a time trying to paint all of those ripps and folds in :/ Maybe later when my skill level increases. As for the sex comment.... well that is another way of saying how I wanted her to look :rolls eyes: Michael Turner was one of my original influences (since I saw the Ballistic mini-series), as were/are the majority of TopCow artists. Roll some Luis Royo into the mix and then add in some Playboy and my own tastes (er more Playboy :D), and there you go.

I am definitely with you about starting up a comp like this here. Either that or you could just join up ConceptArt.org and challenge someone :) I know that Makk wanted a go.

Great work guys, I have been following your thread for awhile.

It would be cool to do something like this here. I would have challanged someone, but Im a little stretched for time right now :( .

yeah someone told me just earlier, cause im from a gaming website this is actually quite interesting

gamespy was more of a portal where as IGN was totally their own content. So i wonder what style the new site will have (and come to think of it, what they will call it...)

quote:Originally posted by MoonUnit

(and come to think of it, what they will call it...)

Maybe 'I-Spy' [:p]

While they are a portal for the same game news regurgitated on many sites, Gamespy actually do a lot of their own content as well - game reviews, conference and special reports etc, and the occasional lame "top ten" articles. [:)].. I wonder if Gamespy will adopt IGN's grubby subscriber only content scheme [:(]

They shouldnt merge, its like Nike and Adiads coming together.

that is extremely wrong

God I hate leet speaking wangs, thats just stupid, why propergate this trashing of our language? Kids these days find it hard enough to spell as it is. [:P]

whats really scary is i can read it all :P

my brain hurts after reading that...

i reckon the guy that wrote that has too much spare time...

I have seen the light... I will transform the whole website into l33t speak!@

I think that Babelfish needs a new translation option :) A few years ago, leet retards were treated like crap and leet speak was ragged on heavily. What the hell happened? Please Souri.... Don't do it. I will sacrafice my first born child in your name (er when I actually have a first born child). Just don't do it :p

..........itsits......already started [url]http://www.sumea.com.au.mirror.sytes.org/index.asp[/url]

Hey, that's pretty interesting. [:)] I wonder how that actually works... if that site downloads, reverses, and serves the images as you browse, it seems like a lot of resources in use for something that's not terribly useful to anyone. [:)]

Haha. It even mirrors pics in the Forum :D It also seriously screws with my head. Time to put that acid away :)

Welcome. I'm pretty sure that most people here will be willing to tell you what app they prefer.

1. Games. Max for sure, but a few larger companies are starting to switch to Maya (id) and XSI (Valve). Movies. Maya, XSI, Houdini, and the major studios use their own proprietry tools as well.

2. Honestly I prefer Maya a lot more than Max. The funny thing is that if I hadn't used Max, I wouldn't like Maya so much :) Give both a try though and see which you prefer.

Thank you Aven for reply and advice

hello jeremiah, im new here and starting out myself, so we can stick together :P (because these vets can be tricky ones oh yes.... ahem)

Apart from Maya and Max there's also Lightwave, which I would say has the far superior modeller of the three. It is used in a lot of places too, and has been used in many games.

The ideal situation would be to try all three out and see which one fits best with you, but of course the best situation coming from that would be that you know how to use all three equally well (i.e. really well).

Hello MoonUnit, yes the Vets are a wealth of information and as you said they can be tricky ones. The trick is to get as much information out of them as possible with out upsetting them lol.

Daemin thanks for the advice, I had a quick look at the Lightwave website and there lightwave3d software looks pretty impressive. I didn't realise that there where a lot more 3d programs out there then just Maya and Max. The hard part is trying to get hold of them to give each one a try out, and then choose which one would be the best. It's a hard decision I think, because if your looking at working in the industry, most places ask that you have a professional knowledge base in one of these programs (seems like 3dsmax is the most popular in Australia), and although the basic principals of digital 3d carry from one program to the next, its still a high learning curve to learn each of the programs UI, Tools, Terminology etc...

Looking at the "projects list" at the Lightwave website where it shows a lot of the projects Lightwave3d was used in is also impressive, there seems to be a lot of companies; specially in the movie industry in the U.S. that uses it.

Hmmm decisions, decisions, which to go with for now.

Would like to see some more comments from other Sumeans. Its a pretty important topic I think for any inspiring 3d animator looking at what program to specialize in.

Welcome :)

quote:Originally posted by Jeremiah

Hello MoonUnit, yes the Vets are a wealth of information and as you said they can be tricky ones. The trick is to get as much information out of them as possible with out upsetting them lol.

LOL right on the money my friend, i know how annoying it can be to have someone bugging you yet ive allmost got no other way of learning :P

3d packages have been discussed in the past on Sumea, and there's [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=651"]a pretty good and informative thread here[/url]. (**contains comments from those tricksy vets too!)

Thanks Souri for the Link

Sucks that new developers always have to bend over and take it sideways... only option is to press for a higher advance and no royalty deal to hopefully try and make some profit during the development.

That is a very intersting read. I knew how some areas of the pricing of a game were split up, but I was unaware that console game devs had to pay that much for liscencing fees.

It is also a little disheartening that developers can get such a small amount in return. I just guess that it is the way it works though.

Yep - that's the 'industry' for ya.
I agree with most of what he says. It's really up to the independent developers to push for a better deal though...shop around for a good publisher etc. If up-themselves-cheap publishers keep missing out on good game developers' work, then it's unlikely that they will last long.

Some of the comments in that blog ring so true - the publishers have a grip on developers like record companies have on musicians. It's the same deal, you pay the studio the recording costs etc, got some dismal portion of the profits, and in the end you don't even own songs.. I think some musician coined it like "paying off a loan for a house, and not even owning it once you finish the payments".

Hello MoonUnit (Frank Zappa influence with the nick?), plenty here willing to help a newbie, just ask fire away :)

(on the subject of my name) a friend heard about the odd name choice by zappa and decided to start calling me Moon Unit, it just kinda stuck.

(on the subject of newbie help) well asking the vets here where they started out, i dont really know what im looking for specifically but atm im just looking to be a good basic polly modeller, all i can do atm is bevel, extrude, slice plane and cut though :P
(im working with 3DSMax R3, old and busted i know but its the only one i could get, you know how much these things cost)

Hi MoonUnit
Bevel .......Extrude.......... man i wish i knew how to do that when i started off [:)]

if your looking for some very good video tutorials which cover everything and anything in 3ds max, head down to www.3dbuzz.com sign up for free and start downloading. www.3d-palace.com has some good video tutorials to but they ain?t as extensive as the ones at 3d buzz

What i think you should use is MilkShape 3d http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft

http://www.geocities.com/Doord/Tut_1.htm

an tut I wrote about a year and 3 months ago. Maybe a help.

hi moonunit.... and welcome to sumea [:)] u can download the Personal learning editions of different kinds of softwares, such as GMAX, MAYA PE etc... it's a good way to try different programs out... but if your seriously into low poly modelling use 3DS max cause most of the industry use it and its fast and efficient.... I preferably use maya for highpoly modelling and animating... Hope that helps.. But people have different choices... use a program your comfortable with... [:)]

chris... [:D]

er Ninja. It's Maya PLE. Not PE :)

quote:Originally posted by Ninja

hi moonunit.... and welcome to sumea [:)] u can download the Personal learning editions of different kinds of softwares, such as GMAX, MAYA PE etc... it's a good way to try different programs out... but if your seriously into low poly modelling use 3DS max cause most of the industry use it and its fast and efficient.... I preferably use maya for highpoly modelling and animating... Hope that helps.. But people have different choices... use a program your comfortable with... [:)]

chris... [:D]

sounds ok but id have to take the initial steps (eg low poly modelling) before i even hit that status :P

thanks for that Doord ill have a look at that now EDIT: what unit of measurement do u have max setup in (like for parameters, cause mines in mm and 30 mm seems a bit small...)

and codyalday, im going with 3DS because i was lucky enough to get a copy of an old version of the the industrys more popular program, so i figure if its what i plan to work with for a job, may aswell give it a shot :D

EDIT: was going through your tutorial doord when 3DSmax just died when i was doing some headwork, stupid me hadnt saved at any point at all, im to cheesed to do anything more tonight but ill have a shot again perhaps tommorow or something

With max if you have not saved, and been working for long periods, go into the max directory and find autoback folder, it will create backups every 15 mins or something similar.

MoonUnit: Afro is right on the money with the autoback thing.

unit of measurement isn't that improtant until you wish to get a model in game. I use Max units most of the time (the only time I don't is when I'm working on a game which has a different unit setup) and just have the mesh at a good size that is easy to work with inside the view port. I think when you are modeling this is the most important thing, to have the mesh a an easy to work with size, you can always scale the mesh before skining the model after you are done.

The tut is kind of old, I think after you go though it try your hand at edit poly, the tools are much faster and easyer to use.

i have increment saving enabled....hitting ctrl+s makes a new save (001, 002, 003 etc)...lucky i have a large hd..i go a bit crazy and the average model has about 200 max files lol...