General Chat

There are others out there too, a friend of mine uses CrazyBrowser, and there's also Mozilla Firebird etc. I think the explosion of browsers comes form the fact that you can simply use the same control to display html and other documents that IE uses anywhere, so everyone is making their own damned browser.

Anyways I still like IE and use it because the tabs aren't really such a "brilliant" feature...

I tend to open a lot of browser windows, so I find tabs are a very useful feature to me. There's just so many other useful options and features too. Disable Flash animations (when you visit game websites, 99% of Flash animations are advertisements), pop up blocking (I *hate* pop ups, pop unders), disable sounds, delete cache and cookies when you close the browser etc, I find these features essential to have. Avant Browser is still pretty much IE, it just has a tonne of extra stuff..

I very rarely read fiction. Mainly i just read books related to programming/game development, and the occasional magazine...
And of the fiction i do read, most of it has already had games made for them :) (Discworld, Battletech)
CYer, Blitz

last book i read was on software engineering... otherwise i just read comics :)

There are books now?
I don't hold with this new technology, give me a good old computer any day.

Pantmonger

I mainly read biography's, usually to do with musicians or motorsport... currently reading Murray Walker's autobiography "Unless I'm very much mistaken" great reading for petrol heads :)

The last book I read was "Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep", the book that inspired Bladerunner.

Apart from that I have pretty eclectic reading habits, anything from comics to the War and Peace.

Mainly non fiction swords and sorcery though because they got trolls and stoof. [:P]

quote:Originally posted by Red 5

I mainly read biography's, usually to do with musicians or motorsport... currently reading Murray Walker's autobiography "Unless I'm very much mistaken" great reading for petrol heads :)

I've got Mark Skaife Diary of a Champion. I haven't read it yet, haven't been able to find the time. It came with my Xbox[:p].

The only non-fiction instructional type of books i read are usually drawing related. I also have a few Flash books and i'll probably read some 3D books for the next version of MAX.

I tend to read comic books off and on, and usually only Marvel since i'm not a hardcore comic book fan. I use to read alot of car, dirt bike and game magazines untill I started receiving Fantasy and Sci-Fi books from friends.

I just bought The Art of the LOTR: The Two Towers on Monday, so I have been reading (and drooling over the artwork) that :)

I'm a sci-fi and/or fantasy book reader. Although I don't think I've read a fictitious book in years - wait a sec, the last thing I read was I Am Legend by Richard Matheson about 6 months ago?

I love reading, I've read the first 4 books of anne rices vampire chronicals, I like the work of H.P Lovecraft. I 'm up to the 4th book in the wheel of time series by Robert Jordan but I'm taking a break from that series because I was on it for a while, right now I'm reading The Fog by James Herbert, Clive barker is another author I like, his Books of Blood are pretty good, my favourite story being the midnight meat train. I've only ever read One biography, it was on a guy called John Douglas, who was one of the guys at the FBI that helped create serial killer profiling, there was some bizarre shit in that book.

Maitrek: is the movie "the omega man" based on I'am Legend?

I read anything.. I'm a compulsive reader.. Can go through a 700 page book in a night if I'm not careful :P

Today I read Angelas Ashes by Frank McCourt.. Yesterday I read Starman (book 3 in axis trilogy) by Sara Douglas..

In the last two weeks I've also read Solomons Tale; Bryce Courtney, Naked Empire; Terry Goodkind and Shards of a Broken Crown; Raymond E Feist.

I'm eagerly awaiting Heretic by Bernard Cornwell, which comes out on the 7th of October..

<--- Book nerd.

Lovecraft is excellent, not neccessarily the easiest author to find in a library though :/
CYer, Blitz

I'm waiting for King of Foxes - Conclave of Shadows: Book Two by Raymond E. Fiest. Comes out 3rd November so I'll probably read just about anything until then. I haven't read any horror for a long time. I might take a look at some of the previously mentioned books. I also have some unread Steven King at my disposal but i'm not really a fan.

I'm yet to read anything from the Discworld universe, so i think i might grab the first 3 or 4.

Blues News and IGN... do they count? :P

i saw this thread a while ago but havent had a chance to reply to it...

currently i am reading,

Game Development and Production by Erik Bethke - great book on game design and general software design..good for anyone doing a programming course

Lord of the Rings - i have been reading this since 1999

recently bought a GIANT book called '1001 tips for Microsoft Visual C++' and there is no way i am going to read through it all

also the usual Hyper, Game Developer, PC mags...

My favorite author would be the late Douglas Adams, I loved the hitchikers guide to the galaxy series as well as Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency but my favorite would have to be the Long Dark Tea Time of the Soul.

Other than that I love reading portfolio books on design and arcitecture.

Stu

Game programming gems 3... err
various other.... you know, game developer, various books on opengl etc

read lots of the internet too... not sure when i'm gonna be finished with that one [:D]

I used to read quite a bit when i was younger, but that slowed down when i found computers (isn't that always the way?). No i pretty much only have time to read during my lunch hour at work.

I finished reading 'Stardust' by Neil Gaiman about a month back and that is a teriffic read. Very simplistic yet detailed. I'm currently reading 'American Gods' by him.
Also reading 'Encyplopaedia Vampirica' from White Wolf. Basically a source book from their Vampire: Masquerade RPG.
Was reading 'The complete stories' by Edgar Allan Poe. some very cool stories, but it is not the easiest of reads.
Also read a fair few comics. Fate of the Blade, Transformers, Witchblade, so on and so forth. i gave up on Marvell a few years back and haven't read an issue since (their movies are cool though).
Really the only two mags that a read now are EDGE and IDN (when i can find in iss). i always look out for new mags though.

i would put down porn, but i dont really read that (more looking).

Hey guys,

Been a few weeks.

www.armedforces-mod.net

we now have a new site and a proper domain. New forum and easier dynamic features..
check it out

The website's nice. Uncluttered, clean, easy to read and navigate. "Interview" is spelt wrong on the navigation though!

I really like the design for your site, but it really doesn't make me think of war. The gallery section has some really nice pics in there as well. The finished product should be nice.

Is it max4 that isnt working? if so I remember on discreets website there used to be a link for a c-dilla update.

search for an updated c-dilla.... that solution worked for me....

I think that the game was fun enough if a bit on the easy side of things. Not much in the way of plot and I dont think the Square and Disney styles mix and mesh well. But it was nice to see higher poly versions of Cloud and Seph.

All in all... meh, didn't suck but nothing to write home about. The quality of the product, models and textures etc was very good.

Pantmonger

I also liked the hi-tech versions of cloud and sephiroth, but seeing them fight against each other would have been better.

It was a nice game, easy on the eyes and ears.... and easy to play.

americans are stupid

well you see, as far as I'm aware Australians get the same version UK/Europe gets, since we both use PAL (rather than NTSC, the american/japanese format). and as you probably know translating games for Europe requires translation for many languages, such as German, French and Spanish. Recording speech for all those languages would not only be expensive and time consuming, but I'd like to see them fit it all on one disc(I'm no expert on sound compression and what not, so it might be easily done?).

So it's obvious that it's too much trouble to translate all those languages especially for such a budget game, so they simply leave the Japanese dialog as it is... of course, this doesn't explain why they couldn't just dump the American voices into the game and leave all the other languages out... so I'm stumped :)

This waste of time has been a Scrow production.

umm.. I think I prefer Americans are stupid :P

The reason fo this is becasue the average American market responds badly to voice acting that isn't done in English and with an American accent, as to why this is the case is anyones guess.

The reason I know this is because, before I got into games, I used to a lot of acting including voice work. One time I was doing some voice work for an american cartoon pitch and everyone was told at the start that they had to at least eliminate their accents and at most use American ones, otherwise the product just wont sell.

Pantmonger

I prefer things in their natural language, it's how they were meant to be. Also I hate that crappy America-style voice acting. They have done you a favor by leaving it as Japanese :)

Guys, I thankyou for replying yet it is a bit anoying redwyre when you are playing and you dont understand anything they say. Why couldn't they just keep it the way the american version is, turn it to PAL format and send it here, they could double their profits or even triple them.

I doubt changing the language to English or Animerican would double/triple sales.

Is PAL used in Japan as well as UK, Aus?
If it is I think it would make sense to only do the one version for PAL and one for NTSC, imagine the pain testing 3 different builds instead of 2?!

BTW Americans aren't stupid, they are just ignorant. [:P]

I could be wrong, but I think that Japan is NTSC. Thats why there has always been three stages of delivery from Japan.

Stage 1. Japan (some times the gamenever leaves)
Stage 2. Translate, but still NTSC, ship to USA.
Stage 3. If they can be bothered convert to PAL for Europe(and Australia).

Whee, this is why we miss out on a chunk of stuff from Japan. We are not part of a large enough cash pool to make it worth while for some games.

Pantmonger

Malus, I know you wrote that you doubt it would double or triple profits but if you think about it, it is true. Every person at my school said that (and I took a survey) that they would buy the game ifit was in English, even those who have already have the game in Japanese. And it is not only Dragonball Z Budokai, all the Dragonball Z games that have been released in America and Australia the Australian Versions have been in Japanese and the American have been in English. That sucks that we dont get all the games that America gets those, cheap asses! (My appologies to any American people out there, no offence)

Yes, Japan uses NTSC.
And Cloud, what people say, and what people do, are two different things :) Using the "english" version would (if at all) only increase profits in english speaking areas. Australia is insignificant, so they would only be looking at the english market. They would probably be weighing up whether english people would prefer to read english subtitles, or hear horrible american accents.
CYer, Blitz

ooooooooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
whatever you people say I am still not convinced.
Why then they dont just bring out both versions, or better you put all languages onto just one game.
and stop going on about saying I didnt do the survey Blitz, I have a lot of free time.

The thing is the company responsable for producing this stuff would have a good market research department, thus if they think its not profitable, then its probably not profitable, school yard surveys asside.

Pantmonger

Cloud: Profits would increase but like Blitz said Australia is a small market so what we want won't generally matter, even if it quadrupled here it still wouldn't make much dent on the sales in general.

As for just adding all the languages in etc, well its not just a case of cut and paste, it takes many hours of labourous sweat and V drinking to get even the most basic things into a game and if its not going to be a huge profit why would they bother.

Yeah I thought it might be NTSC, just couldn't be bothered turning around and asking a coder. Lazy bugger. [:P]

I don't even like Dragonball Z, so I wouldn't care if shipped with italian voices, but if I did like it then the language wouldn't deter me from buying it, I buy films with subtitles, but some people need to hear bad dubbed voice acting I guess.

quote:Originally posted by Cloud

Guys, I thankyou for replying yet it is a bit anoying redwyre when you are playing and you dont understand anything they say.

Are you telling me it doesn't have subtitles?

Fine.
You people sure are persistant!
Then no more of this subject of why we dont have it in english.
Does anyone then know where I could purchase a copy in English and then we can shutup on this subject forever and move on.

if you want to buy the american version, try www.burn.com.au , they usually stock imports of most games

Cloud, i wasn't saying you didn't do the survey, i was saying that what people say on a survey ands what they would actually do can be two completely different things, especially in the case of minors.
CYer, Blitz

I mean that doesnt require going on the internet, buying it in a store.

Blitz, I did the survey in a high school.

I don't know many people at high school over the age of 18 :)
CYer, Blitz

quote:Originally posted by Blitz

I don't know many people at high school over the age of 18 :)
CYer, Blitz

Yeah but under 16 is a minor Blitz :P

Pantmonger

I think Blitz is just trying to get the point across that a few hundred high school students opinions in a survey aren't an accurate way to colerate buying trends.

But its good to see you actively care about the Australian gaming public Cloud. [:)]

I asked if we could get off this subject as even I am getting anoyed.
Just tell me where I can get it please and no more on what is considered a minor, I hate being called that!

quote:Originally posted by Cloud

no more on what is considered a minor, I hate being called that!

You are what you are[:p].

As for the US version of Dragonball Z Budokai it's NTSC version, if you own an Australian spec PS2 it will be PAL. I haven't imported any games since my PSone but i'm pretty sure an NTSC version game will play Black & White on a PAL system, unless you have a conveter of some sort.

Also imported games cost an arm and a leg, especially if they're hard to get or in high demand. Except in the case of pirate games but i'll assume your buying legit.

AFAIK, NTSC games won't play at all unless you have a modchip that will allow it. Then it will play fine as long as your TV (or video player) supports NTSC, which most do since the 90's. Otherwise, as camper said, you'll get a crappy B&W picture.
CYer, Blitz

I am not a minor Happy Camper!
Yes I have a NTSC Chip
Yes my TV can play NTSC Games and DVDs in colour
so can someone please tell me where I can get a copy got dammit!
(sorry for the language but this is getting frustrating. I just want to know where I can get it, nothing more!)

Whoa Cloud, take a chill pill,

Yes your not a minor so everyone please stop harping on about that as it obviously irritates him.

As for were to find a copy, well I'm guessing no one here knows if your not getting response, maybe try looking yourself, ring some suppliers, go to ebay, google it?

I don't know where to get it myself, sorry I can't help but getting angry isn't likely to get you much assistance.

Sorry Cloud i was just teasing.

Isn't there a new Dragonball game coming out anyway?

If you get real desprite maybe you could ask somewhere like Electronics Botique to order it in for you, i ask them to order me in a digital camera once but thats a little different because it wasn't imported and they had advertised it. My point is sometimes shops are willing to order stuff for you and since EB is American owned with an American web site that sells American games maybe it would be easier for them to get a copy.

Thanks for all your help guys. I have not found it yet but I think I should search somewhere else as all I seem to get here is babble (just kidding)Thankyou[:)]
And sorry if I seemed tense, I have had a couple of bad days.

Hope you find it man, I tried googling it for you but got nothing. Maybe EB is a good idea.

Try emailing these guys:
[url="game-info@gameswarehouse.com.au"]gameswarehouse[/url]

They may have it in stock or be able to get it.

I would be cautious about getting the 800FSB / HT P4's since the XP service pack 1 actually makes the whole thing run slower. But overall the computer seems to be a beefy machine. I would suggest getting LG DVD and burner instead of Liteon since its a name brand and (presumably) better quality. You could also change your 1 HDD to a 10,000 rpm SATA HDD ~ 18GB for all your applications, and then have another 1 120 gig or so HDD at 7200 rpm for all your data.

Sounds all right,

The only thing I would think about changing is the Wacom size, I'm a big fan of a smaller Wacom. I know you can pick up a graphic 2 Mac/Win Wacom for about $120, it have 512 degrees of sensitive and it about 6" X 7" and a very good Wacom, what I find 90% of the artist I know that do this kind of stuff use. Mainly because of the size and how easy there are to work with.

With the extra money you could then get your 9800 pro maybe.

But if you like the bigger Wacom go for it :)

I agree, you don't need a huge tablet, take it from me, I own a uber 12 x 12 wacom and use about a quarter of the surface area when I texture etc.

Since I paid $800 for it that means I use about 200 bucks worth, doh.

Try Scorptec, they have good prices
http://www.scorptec.com.au/

Scorptec is not that cheap, Makk. Unless by cheap you mean cheap online.

The swapmeet is great to find cheap parts. http://www.comtrader.com.au/ That will give you dates/times of the swap meet. Just be careful when buying from there. You're best to find people who sell there but also have shop fronts. That way if you have any issues you can find them easier.

I have been going to the swap meet for 6 1/2 years now and have not had too many issues. I have been buying all of my gear from the same person there for about 4 years now.

*plug* Universal PC */plug* The woman who runs it - Wendy - is wonderful to deal with. Their prices in some areas are cheaper then others and may be a bit higher in others. But over all the best prices and service I can find.

She has a shop out in Mitchem that is open 7 days a week. Trying looking them up.

Cheers for all the advice, guys. The thing with swap meet that I find is that they sometimes do not have all the latest stuff, tho considering the bargain hunting nature of the event, it's not too suprising. Still, a few dollars here, a few dollars there, next thing u know, a free slab!! w00t..

Hmm.. as for the wacom, I have no idea since I've never owned one before. But I read the specs, and the 1 to 1 translation ration seems to make sense to me, which is why I was interested in the Intuos 9x12. However, if the pros recommend the smaller version, then why not? Could save a few dollars...

Also, another thing I was contemplating, is it worth the extra dollar to fork out for a Radeon 9700pro vs 9600pro, the 9800 just seems such a luxury that I feel pain in the sides just looking at the price tag.. lol

Thanks heaps for all the replies.

My personal experience with the 9600Pro is that it's fairly decent, although it's not really a power-house card. I'd go for a 9800 myself because a 9600 doesn't really have the fill rate to cater for near-future games at any high resolution or detail.

Secondly. I've got a liteon DVD and have had no problems with DVD reading or anything like that and in some cases it does a better job of playing movies than the other more expensive DVD-ROM in the other computer.

Thirdly - can someone clear this up for me -> An 800 FSB is just a 200MHz FSB with 4 times the bandwidth, or is it really just a 800MHz bus (using a clock multiplier or something)???

I'd go for a cheaper tablet since you have not owned one before, and spend the extra on upping to a 9700 PRO or straight 9800. While the 9700 Pro may be an older card now, it is still definately a better performer than the 9600. The 9700 is where the graphics cards take a leap up in performance. If you look a little, you might be able to find a 9700 Pro or a straight 9800 for around 500-550.

In regards to liteon burners, they have been receiving good positive reviews online. I have had a Liteon burner for almost a year now and it has given me no trouble at all. Burns fast, and the cds always work. Built a mates computer and his has LG drives, only because they were the only ones available. Both of these brands work well.

I'd still reccommend sourcing a 9700 Pro or 9800 if you can find one at a decent price. Its a fairly large jump above the 9600 that will keep you going longer!

Get more spare pen nibs while you're at the shop. They cost $11 for a pack of 5 at Video Bytes (Melbourne....I think its near Victory's Square). If you're into illustration then they run out really fast... Intuos2 grip pens have the worst pen nibs...they are so waxy soft and they start to scratch the overlay after about 40 to 60 hours of work. Once the overlay is scratched it doubles as a grater so you'll have to buy more nibs at a faster rate and so on. I guess the life of a pen nib can be extended if you draw on top of glossy photo paper...the sound is less annoying to.

Also get 1 GB of ram if you can.

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=7&t=153 - Videocard Price watch thread over at the Atomic forums. Lists best prices and from where, as well as a comprehensive store listing. Nice reference point.

Thats a real handy link Brain, cheers for that. Some good prices there! If you are on a budget I've read that the Powercolor boards are quite good. I'd be choosing them over the Gigacube boards, which don't seem to perform as well as the rest. Although, it is usually only 1 or 2 FPS slower, which is nothing. Actually, all of the 9800 boards seem to perform within a few frames of each other, simply because every manufacturer is sticking with ATI's reference board. Guess thats one thing you won't really need to worry about when choosing one. Check out the extras that come with them and see if their is anything remarkably special. I know I can't wait to upgrade, but I'm forcing myself to wait until a new game such as HL2 goes gold!

Hmm.. something just occurred to me. When you guys recommend gettin' a smaller Grafix tablet, is that purely because you don't use much space during texturing? What about illustrations in general, say you want to do a concept sketch? I mean, I never used them before, so I have no idea what to expect.

Well I think the 9x12 Tablet is too big and you probably need a lot of desk space for it as well...but some people prefer it so its really about preferences and drawing style. You'll need it if you do really big long strokes.
The 6x8 one is a good size and you can put it anywhere you like to draw....you could easily tilt it to draw on an angle.

Well I don't see how a bigger tablet will help you draw better illustrations... its all in the skills. I've seen people buy the big tablets and they make shit...I've seen others use a mouse and their work looks way better.....so buy it to suit your deskspace or change your desk.

quote:Originally posted by TequilaBomber

Hmm.. something just occurred to me. When you guys recommend gettin' a smaller Grafix tablet, is that purely because you don't use much space during texturing? What about illustrations in general, say you want to do a concept sketch? I mean, I never used them before, so I have no idea what to expect.

I only have a Graphire2 which is 4x5, and thats all I use. Although I have barely done any illustrations on it, only used it for textures. I mainly reccommend a smaller tablet since you have never owned one before. It'd probably be a better idea to spend less and get a smaller tablet just to see if you like using it at all. Chances are the tablet you buy will be more than enough for you, and when you do find you need to upgrade to a larger tablet, your old tablet will be due for upgrading anyway!

Kewl.. thanx for the advice. I would do most of the concept sketches on paper anyway, an' then scan it in.

You'll have to speak up, please. I'm wearing a towel.

ahahaha Souri!!!
[:D][:0]

You need to upload the image to the web somewhere, then once that is done you link to your image in your message via the img tags and the url of your newly uploaded image.

Warning, some servers do not allow direct linking to an image, so it wont be visable in the thread, in this case you need to just post the link. This is most commonly a problem with free servers.

Pantmonger

thanks

Mmm, it'll be interesting to see the outcome of this. I'm kind of thinking that Activision will have no choice but to give things up, as with the large list of sites blacklisting them, it won't favour on their publicity too well (apart from the whole "bad publicity is good publicity").

Always interesting to watch our industry form.

Well i don't see much of a problem by this from a business perspective, since if you're a game developer and you've got an arrangement where gamespy gives you its multiplayer tech in exchange for one week's exclusivity of your games demo, then that's a pretty damn good deal. And if you pay for the gamespy's fileplanet service, wouldn't you want some special content, so that you can have bragging rights and all that - "I've played it first!"?

Ahh well, I guess we're all a bunch of wingers in the end :-P

It looks like Activision have [url="http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=43…"]bowed under the pressure[/url].. demo is being released freely tonight/tomorrow..

Yeah, think of all the free advertising they're losing not getting the demo hosted on those sites. Even if they get their multiplayer tech or whatever free, i think they'd be losing a s/load more in potential sales. And thats not even mentioning the bad reputation activision will get. Shunned!
CYer, Blitz

Well I'd say that most of the bitching is because those other sites make money from hosting demos, and if they aren't hosting the demo then they aren't making money etc - not as much as gamespy is making etc.

I've *finally* finished downloading the demo. Completed the demo within 10 minutes on medium level, though. Quite a nice game, there's plenty of atmosphere and intense action to be had (parachutes, planes, weapons fire into the air etc).. the art quality is pretty average, but I do love the player models and their animation. They climb over fences, duck, crawl, look around walls, sit down, check things out etc. It's cool to just watch your squad move out and make their way through.. And there's some hand gestures, mouth movements etc when that captain speaks. So yes, very well done character animation..

This is inevitable and it will restrict the smaller studios or indies to concentrate on budget PC or hand held games.

I don't think it's such a bad sign though, it'll weed out some of the trash we currently get in console development, and it'll create more jobs... especially through outsourced work. I can't see many studios becoming too much larger, in fact I predict core teams will eventually become smaller and it could get to the stage where a studio consists of a few people coordinating the outsourcing, producers, designers and one or two lead artists and programmers.

We will see more companies rise from the ashes of the smaller game dev studios who will specialise in particular aspects of game development. The downside of this scenario is a loss of spontainious creativity but because of the enormous budgets these games will require, nothing will be second guessed.

This is sort of the thing that was discussed in Game Architecture and Design a while ago. That more things in a game will be outsourced etc, that's inevitable - now no-one builds their own physics engine anymore for a game, they just use an existing package.

While they say that it will be nigh but impossible to make money as an indie that only relates to the mainstream games on consoles. There will always be avenues for indies to get exposure or even make money but that will be by not going through the traditional marketing channels, but instead relying more on the Internet, and alternate distribution methods - Steam, episodic game content / shareware, etc.

The Indies will find ways to make money, it will take a few innovators then the rest will follow.

I don't like the idea of outsourcing, i don't know why, probably becuase i'm not being open minded, but if thats the way the industry going then i can't really stop it.

Rather disheartening articles there, sounds like life in the games industry is only going to get harder.

quote:Originally posted by Happy Camper

I don't like the idea of outsourcing, i don't know why, probably becuase i'm not being open minded, but if thats the way the industry going then i can't really stop it.

Rather disheartening articles there, sounds like life in the games industry is only going to get harder.

Some positive aspects of outsourcing are...

Quality control: if the contractors work isn't up to scratch, they don't get paid, therefore it has to be done right.

Specialising in one particular area of game development: this gives the contractor an opportunity to specialise in areas that interest them and hone their skills in that area. For example character modeling, character animation, vehicle modeling, track modeling etc. Once you begin to build a reputation as a specialist in your chosen area, it's not difficult to find game dev studios willing to outsource work... it's much more productive and cheaper for the developer to work this way than to hire and train their own staff.

I don't believe it'll be any more difficult to get a job in the indusrty then currently is, but it will make it easier for people already working in the industry to go out and start their own contracting business.

It's all called evolution, and those that cannot evolve toss up a stink and bitch about it all because they can't or won't be able to survive in the new environment.

That is some of the scariest news I have heard all year. I think that increasing the costs of producing games with better software is a way just toget rid of some of the competition in the game market.

This is serious!
Lets all pressure Dick mith to bring out an Aussie console!
Illegimate Sonys of Bitches

quote:Originally posted by lukeo25

This is serious!
Lets all pressure Dick mith to bring out an Aussie console!

The console would be unique in that you have to put it together yourself (with a soldering iron) and if you can't afford to buy it all at once, you can order the parts seperately.

"We have maybe 500 small development studios at the moment. We could have just 50 in two years' time."

This is a sign that the industry is growing up, our teething years are coming to a close and the guys who make millions by creating games in their garages aren't going to be able to cope with the demands of todays and tommorrows technology.

Cloud:

quote:I think that increasing the costs of producing games with better software is a way just toget rid of some of the competition in the game market.

Its not a conspiracy or anything like that, its the natural evolution of the medium, film has gone through it, so has the music industry now its our turn.

I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing, and I don't think its going to be a severve as that first statement portrayed, but it will happen to some degree sooner rather than later, in business everything gets refined, if you can't compete then you get left behind.

As for outsourcing, well thats been going on for quite a while already, can't see a problem with it continuing.

Dicky already did - http://www.aceadvanced.org/computers/dicksmith/vz200.htm @;-)

I used to own one of these. My first computer. *sighs at the memories*

And in both the movie and film industries we still see the little guys / indies making some sort of living, or at least good music / films, and it is the indies in both of these mediums where most of the innovation occurs too!.

Malus, I dont think it is a conspiracy.
I am mearly saying, as written in the articles, that the cost for producing games is rising fast and some of the smaller companies by not have that kind of money just waiting to be used.

There are extremely few (if any) independent developers producing games with that kind of budget now (ever?). Why would independent develpers decide that they suddenly have to produce $10mil titles?
CYer, Blitz

I pretty much see it the same as always. Indies will have to get smarter if they want to make any profit, it's just a matter of evolution.

quote:Originally posted by Daemin

It's all called evolution, and those that cannot evolve toss up a stink and bitch about it all because they can't or won't be able to survive in the new environment.

true that.

Definitely... I generally work around 10 hrs per day, 6-7 days a week which doesn't leave too much time for playing games since I have a family to consider, but I usually manage to get in a couple of hours each week.
I'd love to spend a lot more time playing games but I've had to discipline myself and think of the money... it doesn't help when you work from home and have no one telling you what to do.

Games are great to relax with, but as you'd know you can waste so much otherwise productive time on them.

I barely play games except at school. I'm never at a loss for some coding or other development type stuff to do. It helps that my favourite games are multiplayer FPS etc., and having a 56k connection atm turns me off playing those games online. So i'm not THAT torn between coding and playing :)
CYer, Blitz

You could always say that your game playing is research for your coding.... That's how I justify hours wasted on NWN. ;)

if you don't have a job, and you are playing games, then in my book you are an idiot. btw, this includes myself.

what you/we need a kick in the pants, how can you _EVER_ expect to get work in the game industry if the quality of your your suxs because instead of working you have been wasting your time playing games.

pardon rant, had a game job interview(s) today, and faced the horrible task of claiming to be a gamer when i don't own a console (do own console game but try to limit myself to 1 or 2 short PC games each year). My art work pays my rent, tends to be pretty good motivation to work and not waste too much time....

dude why can't you be a gamer if you don't own a console??. PC games 0wnZorze!!

I don't think playing games is a waste of time when you want to end up creating assets for them.

As an artist I find its a good way of researching what needs to been done with all sorts of aspects of gaming. Animations, designs, modelling, textures etc bla bla....

I think its a plus to be an avid gamer if you want to work in the industry, hell I play games a few hours every other day and still manage to work, socialise and make my own models.

Its all about balance young padawan. [:)]

btw, I only own a PC and a PS1, does that mean I'm not a gamer? bah foohey me says!

quote:Originally posted by Malus

btw, I only own a PC and a PS1, does that mean I'm not a gamer? bah foohey me says!

Hell no, it just means you're missing out on a few cool PS2/XBox/GC games [;)]

You're right though Malus, it is all about balance.

I don't usually play games, except every now and again I get hooked on one and I play it until I've finished it. Well that and the occasional lan where I play multiplayer games. Now that Uni's back up and going strong I need to concentrate on that.

You just need a little self control[:p].

I usually only play my Xbox or PC 2-3hrs every 2 or 3 days. I tend to lose self control whenever i get a new game, for example i got Midtown Madness 3 not long ago and i played it alot until i almost finished it. Before i got my Xbox when i was doing my Qantm Multimedia Diploma i was almost a LAN addict, i used to play alot of Quake, Return to Castle Wolfenstien and Battlefield 1942. In the end my work suffered and my marks dropped but atleast i learned my lesson.

I think i might actually go have a LAN session later today[;)].

I had a period when I didn't play games at all... from when Sumea started, until about 3 months ago. Then I got Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory. Now I can't stop playing the damn thing.

haha, I love that excuse, "I'm researching", sometimes it's true, other times not :)
sometimes I try not to worry too much and just go with what I feel and find that that way I still somehow get things done.I feel guilty buying a new game, coz when I'm handing oer the money, I know I will probably get nothing done over the next month :P

BTW, being an avid gamer is NOT a bad thing if you want to get a job in the industry. A lot of the people i've talked to (well, i've only talked to a few) who are involved in the hiring process at game studios are very interested in your gaming. They don't want to hire people who aren't interested in games. I guess the rational is if you love games you're going to put that extra ounce of effort in to make the game the best it can be...
CYer, Blitz

Well that, and its pretty pathetic I think to just make games and not play them, its like some guy that makes television sets but has never watched tv, or looked at another person's (or company's) tv set.

Now really, how crazy does that sound?!?

"Researching" is a bit of a weak excuse, but if you pay extra attention to what's going on you could probably get away with it.

Between all the crap I do, I try and squeeze in a few hours a week, but all too often I end up with too many games and not enough time.

You do need to play some games and see what the current technological and gameplay bars are.

Once you have a job in the industry - it'll be easier to make time for games (in some ways) as you will be fulfilling your creative needs at work and you can be free to spend the rest of your time as you will.

I go through phases of lots of gaming then none. I just make sure that I play the major releases, you know? Of course, the high cost of gaming can make this difficult.

has anyone gotten into the industry, and is now completely sick to shit of games, because games is now associated with work, rather than relaxation? you come home from work and think "if i see another computer game i'm gonna @#$$$"

I guess you'd find other ways to entertain yourself then, but I mean you'd always want to play other games than the ones your developing, since they would give you a break or seomthing from work...

Or I mean when you get home after work you could *gasp* have a real life, with a girlfriend or Significant other...

whoa!

Real Life TM ??? Noooooo NEVER!!!!!!
Stay back foul fiend!

But on the subject of playing games for research, i think it is legitimate, BUT you must have your research goals laid out before you start playing the game, otherwise you're just playing a game :)
For instance, recently i played a whole bunch of racing games, because i was implementing the camera for the racing game at school. So i played a level or half of about 10 different racing games to see how they handle it.
I think though, when you are properly researching a game, or games, it is about as much fun as QA work. You're too busy paying attention to tiny little details, you're not really playing the game at all.
CYer, Blitz

quote:Originally posted by tachyon

has anyone gotten into the industry, and is now completely sick to shit of games, because games is now associated with work, rather than relaxation? you come home from work and think "if i see another computer game i'm gonna @#$$$"

Yeah I know a few people who've lost all interest in playing games since working in the industry. I've known some who were never great fans of games before entering the industry but love developing them... then again I've known some who love playing them and hate developing them [:)]

quote:Originally posted by Red 5
Yeah I know a few people who've lost all interest in playing games since working in the industry. I've known some who were never great fans of games before entering the industry but love developing them... then again I've known some who love playing them and hate developing them [:)]

There is a whole variety of strange and wierd people in this world!

What kind of sick, twisted, perverted person could hate games?
No, wait, i don't want to know!
CYer, Blitz

Your mum.

Well I really don't know your mum, but judging by my mum i'd say so ;-P

i dont play many games anymore-
i keep my 3d computer clean of games. only max and photoshop on it. ive even taken off the microsoft games :)
no im not a game nazi :) i have another crappier computer with games on it i play a couple times a week.

ohh..but i do play minesweeper flags on msn sometimes. [8D]

I wonder how you can not like playing games and still make them?
or is it that you have enough of playing them x hrs a day that when you get home u just wanna do something else? I spoze in this frame of mind not much good,original stuff would get created,or is it that some like to draw, others code, one music and so on, not thinking too much about the whole?? (I'm thinking here of large studios) not knowing what actually goes on behind the scenes of a $100 title.But I'm off topic now.
woops.

When my main interest was mapping for cs i hardly played the game at all, I got the satisfaction out of seeing the game played by others or (when testing) with bots to see how the game flow went etc. Nothing wrong with that, i'd still enjoy a lan game with friends on these maps but 90% of my time was spent making and testing these levels.

People thought it funny that they could beat me on my own maps heh.. my excuse "i was looking at the texture alignment on this wall"

quote:anotherslave: I wonder how you can not like playing games and still make them?
or is it that you have enough of playing them x hrs a day that when you get home u just wanna do something else?

HAHA!! playing games at work?! Maybe on a friday arvo or if your in Q & A. [:P]

playing and testing are a blurred but definate line... when I was modding q2 i spent alot of time getting the feel for new features i made (eg. more than 10 hours play time on the the controls for a flying character).

but i gotta stop playing so many games... it's just that after writing so much boring code for uni each day, i have no desire left to code afterwards.

I'm pretty lazy to look it up, but can you post a link to the model? tah....

link to it on his site: http://www.ionization.net/3dsigil.htm
--

nice work Ionized.

im going to have to start going into those cgtalk comps :)
think ive gotten to a level not to get laughed off the boards lol

yeah u should enter inglis.... you got great high poly work [:)]

Congrats man, love the character design.

omg!
why the hell would you do that - you get a job saying you can do that work then on your first day you sit there like an idiot not having a clue what to do.

looks like the guy will have to change his name, seems a lot of companies have blacklisted him lol.

I think one or two of those pieces he stole where mine!

Err wait... I am a programmer not an artist.

DOH!

Some really good concept art there.. A lot of the works are done by pencil or are painted, so I wonder if any creative directors hiring him wondered why he didn't have the original copies of the work to show. The art shows some really good skills in anatomy, so if I was a creative director, and he came along, I'd ask him to do a quick concept sketch..

OMG thats sad [:(] and how embarrassing !!! and his name had to be chris as well [:(] !!!!
LOL BLACKLISTED for life.......... he deserved it....

What a sad little man!
Anyone who needs to resort to plagarism for any reason is a first class loser.
He's totally done a number on himself though, he'll never get into the industry now.

Actually this is the third such case I've heard of in the last few weeks!! None as bad as this guy though.

Looks like theres been a graduation at Idiot Valley High School, welcome to the world 'Class of 2003'!

anyone know his home address?

He worked at Raven, and the rumour is, that he was the guy that leaked the Q4 stuff.. Real popular guy eh.

yeah he is that guy. activision are after him.
haha what a [B)]

any other sites with info on him?

i've only seen the polycount stuff.. can't find the others (most has been taken down)

Is this the same guy? If so, this interview is full of lies:

http://planetside.stratics.com/content/news/archive/arc11-2000.shtml

Better than your art teachers, my butt!

Thats the rat, what a fool, seems he was lying to himself back then too.

Wonder if hes come out of hiding yet, imagine his life if someone found his picture!?

He'd never be able to walk the streets again, poor fool, lol.

I wonder if he is stupid enough to go to the next E3. I'm told he was showing his fake portfolio at the last one.

judging by his track record he probably would, but also is stupid enough to hand his portfolio to someone whos work he ripped off.[xx(]

lol !! i wonder if the artists he ripped stuff off sued his arsE ?

What a sad, strange little man!
That is all I have to say.

so now people dont only know his name but know what he looks like.

Yup, I think thats one step too far :P

As I recall, there were a number of 'Chris Runyons' out there doing art stuff.. Even if it's the correct one, I don't think posting his pic really does anything positive.

I don't think its going to far, just giving all art directors the heads up tis a good thing "just removing a cancer" from the art community.

so this is the chris runyon that did all the plagiarism?

Dit: Look I believe the guy should be drawn and quartered for what hes done but theres a point when we should all let the guy get on with his life, or whats left of it.

The guys life is screwed up enough without linch mobs coming after him.

I think the biggest problem with threads like this is that there is no proof of the theft. If any 1 thing is wrong along this chain of information then the guy is being attacked wrongly.

What if his name was reported incorrectly by accident or on purpose.
What if the events leading to his being found out never happened, there is no proof just a report, some one typed that it happened. Even the most credible sources get things wrong or are capable of lying.

What I?m trying to say is that as much as I hate plagiarism and as much as it galls me to think a guy is running around applying for my dream jobs using stolen work, there is no proof available to us. The guy has no court conviction and he is innocent till proven guilty. It is not up to us or our community to damage a persons life and reputation by the spreading of possibly disinformation.

I think we should let it go and let those who believe they have a case against him take it through the right channels.

Mob justice is just wrong people.

Pantmonger

here here

I removed the pic, even if he indeed did do what is implied thats just a bit more torture than the guy deserved.

How about we let him try and survive beyond his mistakes.

Im sure if he is responsible he's learnt his lesson by now and is paying for it.

Man, did that guy ever get burnt or what!!!
That will teach him (and hopefully anyone else)

Yep, I'd have to agree with those judges... what a joke!

KILL ME NOW!

I don't know what was funnier, the performance or the reaction.

"Keith, that was horrific, man"

Ohhhhhh dear. Wonder why he chose like a virgin? [:p]

Scott.

and he was serious.. wow..

thats nuts...

Hmmmm I think I may be challenging Keith for the worst singer in the world title... ;)
That was just....amazing.

ahh... but do you dance like that? [:p]

Keith...rock god!

Could you imagine the smell.

run away, or get a mask.

Pantmonger

LOL is that one of your LANS souri ??? how come i wasn't invited [:)] ???

I've seen bigger. [:P]lol

aka nerdom....

i just kept on scrolling...god damn.

now im just waiting for people to start drawing on it like those conference photos.

the electricity consumed at one of those things could power a small country for a year [:p]

The pizza and coke consumed could feed said small country for five years :P

Hi Tomcat,

whenever you create anything at all you automatically have copyright protection under Australian law.

Even so, it is best to label items that you beleive are commercially exploitable, eg. (c) Copyright 2003 Tomcat

Cheers,

Ross.

tomcat, a simple way to prove you have ownership (in case there's ever any doubt) make hard copies of your work, put it into an envelope, seal it and post it to yourself. Once it has the official post office date stamp on it and the package remains sealed it'll supposedly hold up in court.

but what if u own a p.o stamp and resealable envelope?

quote:Originally posted by sho-nuff

but what if u own a p.o stamp and resealable envelope?

Good point... I just stated what an accountant told me a few years ago. Maybe you'd have to have the package stored somewhere (like a solicitors office) where you can't have access to it... just guessing :)

send via registered post and you will have a time stamp on the letter [:)] that way your date will be earlier than anyone else and huzzah you win!!

Then you get to court, open your envelope and discover that you pic is gone, replaced by a stale donut.

Curse you Ausralia Post

Pantmonger

mmmm... donuts...

As said, you can rely on the copyright legislation for protection by stating the (c) clause...

If you think you are likely to be ripped off and really need to protect the work then you certainly can lodge designs, etc.. Try looking here, it fully explains copyright/trademarks/designs/etc:

http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au

Cheers,

Ross.

Thanks Guys.

I think I will post it to myself using registered mail.

Thanks again for all your help.
Tomcat

If you get donuts do we get a share?

i was always told that a sig on ur work was all u needed. But validating it through the p.o service sounds more legit. But i do know that copyright laws are different for each country, so what might hold up in one place, might not do so in another. Same goes for patents. U can get national or international. International is hella expensive. But just imagine the cost for a universal patent. That would b ****loads.

Copyright is automatic in Australia.
Posting to yourself is a way of providing proof if that copyright is challenged.
Adding the funny c is (I Believe) needed in England
The US has the most different of the copyright laws as they would not sign the international agreements.

My spelling prob sucks as Im drunk as a monky as I type this.
You all get no donuts, they are mine I am the l33t donut eater.W00t!

Pantmonger

your a crack up

isnt there a different copywrite law for each different format such as drawing, song etc. And arnt there different rights that have different powers such as master rights and other types?

quote:Originally posted by tomcat

I think I will post it to myself using registered mail.

Better yet, post it to a mate and handle your off-site backups
in one...

Cheers,

CombatWombat

Just had a read through the features and the details they have planned, and I agree, it seems pretty optimistic for such a small group. Some of the details they want to have with the vechicles, whilst impressive, seems such a little trade off for the extra work involved. The pictures of the wheels showing the nuts, bolts, springs, brake discs etc is just.. NUTS. I'm pretty sure car sim games will head this way eventually (I wonder if car sim developers in the future would need mechanic degrees), and they should be commended for their optimism and ideas, but they've probably bit off more than they can chew. I say 'probably' because you never know the determination of some people, and they certainly have the talent to do it, although it seems a bit dubious that you don't really see more than 2 detailed cars so far. How many different cars do you expect to have in a car sim these days? Over 30 at least??

Oh, and I can't finish this post without mentioning their forum. If you're going to make a game, for goodness sakes, don't make a forum! Game forums draw some of the worst fanboys imaginable who feel like they should be pampered whenever they crave/demand news/info, and are never satisfied when they get what they want.. reading their forum makes me weep for the developers. If you have to make a forum, never EVER visit it yourself... [:)].. and never reveal your ICQ number!!

quote:Originally posted by Souri
If you have to make a forum, never EVER visit it yourself... [:)].. and never reveal your ICQ number!!

Speaking from personal pain Souri? lol. [:P]

quote:Originally posted by Souri

Oh, and I can't finish this post without mentioning their forum. If you're going to make a game, for goodness sakes, don't make a forum! Game forums draw some of the worst fanboys imaginable who feel like they should be pampered whenever they crave/demand news/info, and are never satisfied when they get what they want.. reading their forum makes me weep for the developers. If you have to make a forum, never EVER visit it yourself... [:)].. and never reveal your ICQ number!!

Good observations Souri, I think along the same lines concerning the forum. They did correspond with forum members early on and shortly afterwards cut all contact which in turn caused a backlash of negativety and disbelief from most members. I think under those circumstances it's better to close a forum altogether than to leave people hanging on and second guessing.

Personally, I think the West brothers are probably capable of finishing Racing Legends (eventually). They've been at it for years (as noted above) and they're pretty enthusiastic about it :)

Seeing as the sim community hasn't had anything it's really embraced since Grand Prix Legends (celebrating 5 years of being the "best car sim ever" in November!!), I reckon they'll wait around.

Unless someone beats them to it....

Well they have to finish it now. If im not mistaken they said they sold their house to fund the project and if the investment doesn't pay off they're going to be kicking themselves. Thats just too much risk for me. However i don't know whatelse they own or how much $$$ they have behind the project.
Good for them if it pays off.

quote:Originally posted by Malus

Speaking from personal pain Souri? lol. [:P]

Nah.. most of you have been pretty good to me. [;)]
That was a reference to what was going on in their forum. One of the developers made his ICQ number available, and everyone is just bugging him for news...

quote:Originally posted by Red 5
I think along the same lines concerning the forum. They did correspond with forum members early on and shortly afterwards cut all contact which in turn caused a backlash of negativety and disbelief from most members.

That's the exact same scenario with Micro Forte's Citizen Zero and their forum.. I feel sorry for Micro Forte as well... they're stuck inbetween a non-disclosure contract and a "we need more info damnit" fanbase. Not much they can do.

We all know Sony have an excellent "hype" machine... we've seen it in action before, but if it does turn out to be close to their claims I feel it'll be both exciting and daunting to develop for (from an artist's point of view) unless we can develop new quicker methods for producing 3D art content.

Everytime I see some system bragging it can do a teraflop, it's always a theoretical figure. Oh yeah, it can do a teraflop, but more than likely it'll never reach such heights. It's a trend, which would be good to be broken.

But then, it's just become PR buzz to me now. Teraflop, eh? Woo. @;-)

I think it will be pretty cool :)

http://www.ps3insider.com
http://www.ps3insider.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=3

Its like we learnt in Computer Architecture, even though there may be a claim that something performs really well, say to a teraflop level, there is always an overhead, and no-one can make the processor run at optimal speed for long, therefore the real practical limit is probably only 80% of what they claim at best.

Its like claims on video cards that they can render so and so number of triangles every second, but that assumes that all triangles are flat shaded and only a few pixels in size with no overdraw. So you gotta take these things with a (big) grain of salt.

The Playstation 2 was touted as being able to render Toy Story in real time. [:D]

lol, thats funny Souri.
Wonder why it didn't do that well bringing Monsters inc. to fruition.[:P]

Well i think that even if the PS3 doesnt live up to the hype, it's not unreasonable to think that rendering full pixar level graphics in real time is an obsurd statement. It's definitely gonna happen. Just not necessarily on the ps3. Having said that, the concept of the cell tech sounds achievable, but i guess we'll see if it works when it arrives. However, b4 that can happen, they need to overcome that same hurdle the phantom console will have. Connectivity.

On a side note, has anyone seen that trailer for the ps10 or sumthin? it was just a concept some design firm came up with. They made a full fledged trailer based on the concept and when you see it it just opens up your mind to the possibilites of future gaming. You'd b lucky to find it now though, the trailer's like 2-3 yrs old .

This reminds me of the bollocks about the ps2 being banned in some countries because its powerful enough to launch nukes, heck those super computers in the 70's that were as powerful as a calculator could do it, They just want to over hype.

Actually, iirc it was that they were powerful enough to replace/power the tracking etc. system for scud missiles...but yeah, the whole thing was pure stupidity :P
CYer, Blitz

quote:Originally posted by Fluffy CatFood

This reminds me of the bollocks about the ps2 being banned in some countries because its powerful enough to launch nukes, heck those super computers in the 70's that were as powerful as a calculator could do it, They just want to over hype.

My understanding (and I could be wrong) was that there was an issue with America and its security laws concerning the export of 128 bit tech at the time. Its my understanding that this is why some companys moved off shore at that point in time.

Sure it was blown out of proportion and hyped through the roof, but I thought it had a basis in fact (Fact being stupid American law)

Pantmonger

quote:Originally posted by sho-nuff

Well i think that even if the PS3 doesnt live up to the hype, it's not unreasonable to think that rendering full pixar level graphics in real time is an obsurd statement. It's definitely gonna happen. Just not necessarily on the ps3.

That's all good, but the Toy Story reference was made towards the PS2, not the PS3... [:)]

quote:Originally posted by Red 5
I feel it'll be both exciting and daunting to develop for (from an artist's point of view) unless we can develop new quicker methods for producing 3D art content.

I couldn't agree more.. making content is definately going to have to evolve. If it means characters and organic objects are modelled by hand with clay, and then scanned in, I'm looking forward to it. [:)] (I think that's what Kenneth Scott did with the Doom 3 characters.. I remember seeing a small rubber/clay statuette of one of the characters seen in game).

I think PS had never been the tech power house. The PS2 is nothing but a P 400 with GeForce 2 with no ram, but also not windows in the back ground which helps.

They have won with Marketing and will go on doing that. Like saying the PS2 can do 70 million polys a second (which they did) and it can't get anywere that high in the real world. More then likly doing the same thing with the PS3.

Yes i hate PS.

quote:Yes i hate PS

Seems a bit harsh, its just a console. Some fun stuff is on it and no one makes you buy / own / play on / read about it.

I like the PS, probable because of the games I have enjoyed on it. But I also have other consles (but not an x-box, nothing personal just last on the list.

Im keen. I'd like it if it was also still backward compatable.

Pantmonger

With regards to America and 128 bit stuff, I know that they've got something against exporting any encryption greater than 56bit to certain countries, because it's a lot harder to crack. And with regards to the missiles, the Patriot missile defence system uses 24 bit floating point values, so basically any 386 with a math co-processor could be used to launch missiles.

quote:The PS2 is nothing but a P 400 with GeForce 2 with no ram

The PS2 itself is a bit more than just a 400 with a GF2, it's a 300 MHz machine with 2 dedicated vector floating point units which mean its like a 300 with 2 Pentium 3 (SSE component) chips attached to it, in addition to having an onboard video card. You're just simplifying it all because you hate it.

quote:Originally posted by Doord

They have won with Marketing and will go on doing that. Like saying the PS2 can do 70 million polys a second (which they did) and it can't get anywere that high in the real world.

The PS2 probably can theoretically do that, just not the way everyone imagines.

This is the uber-marketing machine at work my friend.
They said 70 million polys a second fair enough but they never said in what form did they?
You know why? Because they knew the average gamer would go into drool ovewrload and from that little tease imagine worlds full of super high poly beings in realtime when they actually just meant unsmoothed, unantialised, untextured triangles that don't move.
If you fell for it then its your own fault I guess.

quote:Originally posted by Doord


Yes i hate PS.

Shit they had better stop making games for it then lol.

Hell I still only own a PS1 because I'm a poor sap so I can't wait for the PS3. I think my first few pay checks might go straight into consoles.[:)]
Thank god I still have my PC.

The triangles are also extremely small (about the size of a pixel) so the rasterizer isn't hit at all.
Thinking about it thats probably even pre-transformed vertices they're using to :P
CYer, Blitz

i think they should design the ps3 into a robo-dog like aibo. Or at least design it in such a way as to promote gaming as more of a social activity, instead of where it currently stands. As a past time for the bedroom.

O.K there is the exception of arcades, but there is only so much time crisis, daytona, street fighter, tekken and DDR that a guy can handle.

Most people I know keep their consoles in the lounge, hell even some PC's end up there.
I also think console gaming is generally a pretty social thing anyway.

Aibo would be cool, but it would be better if it was some anime looking robo-friend who you could hang out with and every now and then it could transform into some sort of mecha battle suit to help you fight off invading angels, lol. [:P]

Or fight of the people who come to your door wanting you to fill out surveys or whatever and just won't go away!!
CYer, Blitz

quote:
Yes i hate PS.

LOL

Ever one has a console they like the least. My just happens to be the PS, even that I have a PS 1 and PS 2, and played then a fair bit. and more then likly get a PS 3, i just wish that I'm didn't have to and have X-Box have all the power. That will not happen because every one hate MicroSoft. Hey maybe that is way I hate PS 2 because they have the console market by the neck, the same reason a lot of poeple hate microsoft. Hmm funny.

robo-dog:
Cool, the PS 2 was a game console and DVD player (and now a TV record, and net thing) way not also make it your pet.

Sony Are You Reading This: Ten Thing Your PlayStation Can Be For You. lol

I dread the console war being over. Just look how fast PS2 and Xbox prices dropped in the first 2-3 months after the xbox released here!
From what i gather, PS3 and XBox 2 (or whatever they call it) will be realeased around the same time, so Sony won't have the advantage of releasing a year earlier next time which should reduce their market hold.
CYer, Blitz

PS2 did not just gain the market hold due to an earlier release, they gained it because of fan loyalty as well as rights to produce certain, already popular games and the fact that the console was backward compatible, which allowed a much larger initial game-base even for non-PS1 owners. On top of this their marketing strategy was much better, I remember several of my non-hardcore gamer friends didn't even know what an X-Box was when Microsoft first started advertising in bus stops, billboards etc, as the posters were just the 'X' logo with 'Microsoft' written on the bottom.

The earlier release helped for sure, but I personally belive that the PS2 would have come out on top even if all three major consoles were released simutaniously, perhaps not as far on top, but on top nonetheless. Perhaps it will be different next time, particualy if the X-Box 2 and/or GameCube 2 are backward compatible as well.

Yes, I'm reviving up an old thread here, but it's on topic [;)]

This sorta news has kinda been lost within all the leaked Xbox pics news, but Toshiba gave the first public demo of what the Cell can do. quote:In the demo, 48 MPEG-2 streams stored on a HDD were read, decoded and projected to a 1080i resolution display divided into 8 x 6 cells, each of which showed a different video fitted to the cell size. The company expects to use this technology to display moving thumbnails in a video list.

Not terribly useful for us ordinary folk, but is [url="http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8119/Toshiba-Gives-First-Public-Demo-of-t…"]impressive nonetheless[/url]. [:)]

The thing about the Cell is that it doesn't re-order instructions on the fly. That means a massive reduction in chip complexity, and it's why they've got it running at >= 4gHz, but it's instruction re-ordering that makes CPUs fly (the re-ordering is to exploit the innate parrallelism of the CPU).

Still a peak 256 gigaflops from 1 chip (that terraflop figure is from 4 chips) is pretty damn impressive. It will take one HELL of a compiler to build efficient software for it though (or a big team of advanced god level assembly language programmers, and being RISC the Cell isn't meant for hand coding asm).

I think I'll wait and see myself.

BTW previously I said my athlon 2500 does 2.5 gigaflops. That's based on my own benchmarks using SSE vector instrinsics and Intel C++. I've seen some people claiming high-end P4's can do 10 gigflops, and from my testing that is not that case: my 3200 does around 3.

The playstation 2 was much more like an old Silicon Graphics workstation than anything else, which is one reason why Sony managed to port Linux to it so easily (Linux was already running on the old SGIs)

quote:Originally posted by Doord

quote:
Yes i hate PS.

LOL

Ever one has a console they like the least. My just happens to be the PS, even that I have a PS 1 and PS 2, and played then a fair bit.

And this is why the overhyped and under-delivering PS3 will still be a smash hit... because you will buy one. Your mother will buy one. And every dog kennel will not be complete without one. All the tech boys wet themselves over the specs. All the hardcore gamers freak out over the sub-titles of sequels and everyone else gets one because it occupies the most floor space at Kmart. I boycotted sony after they released the Playstation and see no incentive to change this stance. Your souls are weak and you are all far too quick to go to the dark side. Patooie!

there is something of a difference between liking the least and a boycott. Likewise in the case of the playstation (2 ofcourse in this generation) i find it the least desireable of the consoles but that dosent mean i see no reason to have one. So when it became affordable my household purchased one, it was however the last console we purchased (ie cube and box came beforehand).

I think for now I'll be satisfied with the construction of my Gaming and TV Box. MythTV now supports running MAME so I'll have a DVD, PVR, and Console Box in hte living room :-)

I'll upload screenies once its made and running.

Lorien: On the programming side of the PS3 I would imagine a whole new market of libraries will spring up, one's that run on the cell's vector pipelines and do specific things. So you'd have a Cell physics, video decoder, audio decoder, compressor/decompressor, etc libraries that people have coded and optimised. The application makers would then just plonk these libraries together and they'd have a complete and relatively optimised system in no time.

quote:Originally posted by lorien

The thing about the Cell is that it doesn't re-order instructions on the fly. That means a massive reduction in chip complexity, and it's why they've got it running at >= 4gHz, but it's instruction re-ordering that makes CPUs fly (the re-ordering is to exploit the innate parrallelism of the CPU).

That's a bit of a nit-pick. Instruction reordering really only helps to maximise the efficiency of a single processing pipeline, and is something that can be done by a smart compiler. In fact a lot of the extra logic contained in modern processors is there simply to get around inefficiencies in the pipeline. Cell strips away all the crap and focusses on making the pipeline itself as fast as possible. That means less logic, which means a smaller core, which both makes for a higher operating clock speed. And now that the core is smaller you can squeeze more onto one die.

So what we've got with Cell is a bunch of high performance processor cores, each of which is seperately configurable and can operate completely independently of the others, all under the supervision of a seperate PowerPC core. You're worried about instruction reordering? Just use the PowerPC core as a kind scheduler farming out macro instructions to however many cores are under its control. Alternatively, start thinking about entire processes that could be assigned to a particular core: one for physics calculations, one for sound processing, one for video stream decoding, one for AI...the list goes on.

Admittedly, what with multi-CPU systems around right now, none of this is particularly new. What excites me about Cell is that it has been built from the ground up with massively parallel computing in mind, and I think this is where the future lies. If the presentation I saw at AGDC is anything to go by, the idea eventually is to have each Cell chip on a completely self-contained motherboard, which can be mounted in a rack. Each Cell can communicate with the others over 10Gb ethernet built onto the motherboard. The OS (whatever that happens to be) will automatically use the combined power of however many Cells are in the box.

What I would really like (and I don't think this is too far away) is the ability to alter the internal architecture of the chip in order to optimise it for a particular task. Gone would be the need for your GPU/PPU/SPU, just one general purpose chip that could become whatever you needed it to be. Want more power? Just get another chip. Then everyone could have a supercomputer in their lounge room...but then they wouldn't be "super" anymore because it'd be average spec, but it'd be pretty damn cool all the same.[:p]

Not to pick back at your nits there, but the key thing about a RISC pipeline architecture is that it works very well for code that doesn't need to make too many decisions (ie: transform this list of a billion matrices), but has a high cost for code that makes a lot of decisions or branches. Assume the pipeline can take ten instructions, if the first one is a "If value = 0 go and do something else" then the other nine instructions in the pipe are wasted - thrown away. not only that, but it's ANOTHER ten cycles before the one you've just switched to completes it's work (and what if it's a branch too?)

I can imagine compiler technologies based on hyperthreading to avoid this (ie: have two completely differnt contexts running down the same pipeline), but the long and the short of it is that gameplay code will run slower, which flashy graphics will go faster. Some very big compiler smarts will be required to get stuff running to these new processors' full potential.

In computing you never get something for nothing :)

mcdrewski: I'm sure that they'll include conditional instructions such as found in the later x86 processors and the ARM instruction set. That should allow for some clever optimisations that don't require the execution stream to branch. Plus you could just run the massively branching instructions on the controlling PowerPC chip while the massively parallel processors are crunching through the graphics, sound, compression, decompression, physics etc.

im with u on that one. That place is the shiznit.

Sorry, but I couldn't think of anything worse than working for a company with 1000 employees, and EA [?][?][?] no thanks!

My understanding is that the staff is so large because they pulled up shop from all their locations around the world and moved everyone who was willing to the one central location. But don't quote me on that.

Pantmonger

Reminds me of when John Romero got Ion Storm started. They had a lavish and large office in a highrise (I think.. with a waterfall). It was to be a game developers haven where only the best games would come out, complete with special area full of games and consoles, relaxation areas, lounges.. etc.

...and they got nothing done! [;)]

(Ok, that's not entirely true. The world did get Daikatana after 4 years, amidst all the crap that was going on behind doors).
That EA campus looks like a very desirable place to work.. although I think you'd feel your contributions to the gaming world would be pretty small with such a large worker base - you'd feel like a very small axle in a huge corporate wheel. I wouldn't have a problem with that, but you know...

But then again EA is like one of the largest 4 developers / publishers, what with all the EA sports titles etc. I believe they showed some of the offices for EA on 60 minutes in that game development story etc.

I think they can afford new nice offices.

I think they'd be working on a fair few titles. Therefore they'd probably still have decent size core teams per game and you wouldn't get lost just making footballs for madden all your life. [:P]

Nice looking setup and that beach is bloody tempting, mmmm surf every morning, lunch and arvo, but how many people do you think would have the time to go play soccer when chrunch time is on. lol.

Soccer field = makeshift sleeping quarters with tents during crunch time.

LOL. Tents are better than sleeping under your work station.

I Just found out Arnold Schwarzenegger will be running for Governor of California. Hmmm... is that good or bad?

it will be good. Cuz then he can have a shot for presidency in the future. Then when that happens, he can get the army on a 'juice' regime, implemented from President Arnie himself. Then him and the 'roid' army can stick it to them damn terrorists, whilst shoulder pressing an f-16 at the same time.

Seriously though, i would laugh my ass off if he became president. But then in an odd way, it just might work.

I saw him on Jay Leno last night, and he must be working on his accent because he gave some solid answers when he was asked to talk on some issues, and it was all delivered without the slurrs we all like to mock. If he can pull it off, then good on him.

BTW, u guys brought up a pretty good point about having such a leisurely surrounding at work. But EA is probably working on the philosophy that 'a happy worker is a hard worker'. Well whatever the case, EA is top billing in almost every genre, so they can afford to buy up residency in cali. But what gets me is that smart businesses (which EA are) only expand if there bottomline can support it. So im thinking, them boys must have something pretty heavy hiding under there skirts to make such an expensive manouvre. Genre breaking games perhaps? who knows, only time will tell.

Furthering the war on oil..er terrorists is good solid platform for him to get elected I guess but maybe he could concentrate on combating Americas increasing iliterate, poverty striken and homeless backyard, just an idea. [:)]

You imagine his election ads?
Lots of republican freedom fighters lead by his terminator exo-self fighting the democrat T-X's. lol.

And the supporters slogan, "I'll be back-ing Arnie for President".

I saw that Jay Leno interview, I think he didn't slur because thats how he speaks when not playing a terminator man. lol.

He'd probably do a hell of a lot better than George 'Dubya' Bush is, he's a prat of a man.
I think people really don't give actors enough credit, do you really think Arnie would be this successful if he wasn't a driven, intelligent guy?

Being an actor in hollywierd these days is practically on par with running a multinational business. PR, Marketing etc.

they have the same 'campus' set-up in the UK, with a similar number of staff.

quote:Originally posted by Pantmonger

My understanding is that the staff is so large because they pulled up shop from all their locations around the world and moved everyone who was willing to the one central location. But don't quote me on that.

Pantmonger

quote: Well whatever the case, EA is top billing in almost every genre

I'm not too sure about this. Of late, their games have been a lot better but the only genre I think EA can claim real supremacy is in Sports. RPG, driving, fighting, RTS, FPS, puzzle, MMORPG etc... they are nowhere near the top.

Unless you were talking about sales (which I've never seen as an accurate indication for game quality only for the ability of the marketing dept.)

This is classic:

[img]http://home.earthlink.net/~rotoboy/blogstuff/STFU.jpg[/img]

I dunno, I think Arnie could be alright. He's obviously more intelligent than his accent gives him credit for. I don't think Americans would vote for someone that hadn't been 'born and bred' there but in terms of a recognisable face, he'd certainly pull in voters who wouldn't normally bother. Anyway - Jesse 'the Body' Ventura is already the Governor of Minnesota.

Having said that, Arnie's come from humble beginnings so he seems a more accessible governor, unlike the 'political families' you hear so much of in the States where they primp their sons and daughters to be senators at some stage in their life. I'd be more likely to trust someone who rose up themselves as opposed to someone who grew up in the elite community.

It's a pity Arnie's grandfather was a Nazi Stormtrooper, it's potentially made a dint in Arnies campaign. Having said that, Arnie has donate millions to stopping hate campaigns like those in the past.

Actually to be the American President you have to be born in America! So Arnie would not qualify, and the most he can get to is being governor or a senator - I think about the senator, might have to be American born for that too.

Hmm.. Wasn't Arnie president in the movie 'demolition man' or something?

yeah they made reference to him being the president.

Now we know who to blame for giving him the idea!

I watch the first ad in his canpaign not long ago. The Califorians didn't respond to well, a few thought that he wasn't very sincere, and then there were jokes about how it lacked references to his movies.

That guys sounds particularly ignorant :) But there was alot of hype that I think needed to be played down at the time.
I remember the first couple of games that came out on CD -> Sherlock Holmes, Megarace (with that eff-wit host Lance something or other), 7th Guest etc. Nothing really new, but we hadn't really moved on from the ol' adventure game static-environment/background stuff, 3D had hardly erupted on the scene back then (Doom was just coming out? Or was out?). Seemed like live action was the way to go, but obviously it wasn't.

What really helped the CD out was when we started getting machines that could process alot of data (textures, environments, sounds) etc all dynamically (making more dynamic games), then a cheap easy way to store and transfer the information without using 50+ disks was handy.

Speculation's a funny thing sometimes if it's put into print and looked back upon :)

quote:Originally posted by Maitrek

I remember the first couple of games that came out on CD -> Sherlock Holmes, Megarace (with that eff-wit host Lance something or other), 7th Guest etc.

Thanks a lot for bringing back those nightmares of Megarace. I thought I had completely forgotten about that game until now! :P

woohoo! Megarace!! would you beleive that i actually thought it was good and went out and bought it right after playing it at a friends house...

Heh heh, still have a copy of Megarace. Funnily enough, I didn't bring it up to Brisbane with me @;-)

Bought it in a pack of games, including Dragon's Lair. Wanna play that now.

That was the third issue of Edge magazine ever, btw.. In the mag, they had a round up of console machines, and it's surprising to see how many there were at the time (we're talking cd based, pre-PSX times). And there was a special on that old chestnut "sex and violence in games" spread in there. I'm sure magazines will still be focusing on that after another decade. Reading up on the attitude and cynicism on the then new cd technology has changed my attitudes towards the Phantom console somewhat. Although I doubt the Phantom console will take off due to the extremely tough competition, but the idea that games are distributed online, who knows, could be what's considerable the norm in another 5-10 years.

It's interesting to note that games have become larger than what a normal cd can hold now. I would have never thought that one day, we'd be able to fill an entire cd with game content. These days, pc games are coming on more than one cd (which reminds me, the pc market is really lagging behind with the idea of games on dvd)..

Heh, remember Wing Commander 4, coming on like 5 CDs? @:-D Sure, the gameplay was minimal, but so many CDs!

The slow uptake on PC DVD titles is probably a good ol' catch 22. There won't be more games released on DVD unless more games are released on DVD. Consoles have them standard, and the uptake of DVD drives in PCs is still pretty slow as far as I'm aware. And off the top of my head, all I can think of on DVD for PC is Metal Gear Solid 2. Still yet to play that...

DVD drives are pretty darn cheap now... I think I might get one soon....

ive got a dvd burner here at work but i never seem to use it. Im still using CDR for files. Im not into copying or pirating. Im a big believer in supporting the industry i plan to be in someday. But then, im probly buying all my stuff because i can afford to.

One of the reasons DVD's don't seem to be a huge priority is the amount of data you can fit on multiple CD's, and also the amount of data you can fit on a users HD.
Back when games first got released on CD, cd's were bigger than the average hard drive! (around 540 meg), and to get the same amount of data on floppys would take a couple hundred (assuming a full cd). These days users have huge hard-drives, much bigger than a standard (4.2 gig) dvd, allowing the entire game to be installed on the HD, and not ahve to "swap disks" during the game. Also it would only take around 8 CD's to fill one dvd, so it's not such a big deal. My thoughts anyway.
CYer, Blitz

Yeah, its a good game! Got it here sitting on the shelf next to me. Haven't played it in years though... Would be good to get that out, and Loom and some of the others to have a look.

Man, Loom was da bomb! @:-D

(hi everyone, moved and yet to get home net access. Yay for Bunker)

Just a small note...
Modifying your PS2 is NOT illegal, only the sale of mod-chips.
CYer, Blitz

so modding your ps2 with a mod-chip isn't illegal, but buying a mod-chip is?

I meant that it would be illegal for stores to modify it for you.. which I could be incorrect there anyway..

This is bloody stupid
if they want to get rid of mod chips remove region locking from the ps2 then i wouldn't need to get one now would i.
What they are saying is if i want to do the legit thing i would have to buy 2 ps2's just so i can play import games as well as Australian games.

quote:
What they are saying is if i want to do the legit thing i would have to buy 2 ps2's just so i can play import games as well as Australian games.

In some places, importing is illegal - ie Britain. Their 'rationale' is that it harms the sales of games when they are released in PAL format.

thats all good and well but what about the many games that aren't released in PAL and never will.
the .hack games come to mind for ps2.
I want to play them but to do so i will need to import either the US or Jap version of it because as far as i know it simply isn't coming out in PAL
and who really cares about UK when we are talking about Australia. I don't think it is illegal to import here.

What if you buy a secondhand game off Ebay from say the US, would that be illegal if you were in the UK?

Are the .hack games even being released in the US?
CYer, Blitz

quote: ...and who really cares about UK when we are talking about Australia. I don't think it is illegal to import here.

Because if a game isn't coming out in the UK or European PAL territories, it sure as shit ain't coming our way either.

One of the reasons (read:excuses) for people to buy mod-chips is so that they can 'import games' (read: copy them). So even if you are modifying your PS2 to play import games, you can't even use that excuse. Ergo, neither can mod-chip sellers.

if this is there way of preventing piracy then there pretty naive. Can anyone say, "PS2 hard drive"?

This from Shacknews

A number of gaming sites out there are carrying word of an alleged Half-Life 2 delay according to some folks at Vivendi Universal who are publishing the title retail for Valve Software. However word doesnt seem to have traveled down to Valve according to an email pulled from the Steam forums. (We havent been able to directly confirm or deny with anyone at Valve yet) who might know a thing or two about that. timm of Shacknews comments fame already pointed out this Gabe Newell response:

First time I've heard about this.

So there you go, dont panic just yet as Valve Software decides when they ship, not Vivendi. Valve says there is no delay (that they are aware of, and well.. if anyone is aware of a delay it would be Valve), then there is no delay. Things are still on target for Sept 30th until/unless Valve says otherwise. This is of course assuming the email is legit. The bit about something like this coming down from Vivendi is a bit far fetched too given Valve's situation so what the hell. We'll have word here for you guys as soon as we hear from Valve.

Well, If it is delayed it means I'll have more money to spend a new car. HL2 means upgrade time so the further away the cheaper everything will be! :P

Cool,i was getting a bit worried there. But even if it does get released on time, is that a worldwide release? Im predicting it will b held back here until christmas if its not, simply because every title on the release date list at EB has been pushed back more than once, adding to about a 1-2 month delay. Which will end up getting released for the holiday season, hence my prediction of HL2's true release date in Australia, however this is all just mere speculation, and speculation is not fact, so if you wish to ignore my prediction on the HL2 release, then by all means. I will not be offended, im just making predictions. One other prediction id like to make while we are on such a topic, is that in the year 2000, the entire east coast will be flooded all the way back to the blue mountains. Such a flooding will be caused by the biggest tsunami recorded in history, and no one who lives on the east coast will live to tell the tale. Ah hem, r u still reading this? BWAHAHAH i laugh at yoo fools!

On a side note, that last prediction was what futurists and psychics around aussie had predicted some time in 99. They had this big show about it, surely some of you had seen it. Anyhow, seeing as it didn't happen, and probably wasn't going to, i predict that this show was used as scare tactics aimed towards Pauline Hanson to rethink her livelyhood within the country. Still reading arent you. heher.....

Hate to rain on your parade souri, but VU are publishing/distributing the game, therefore THEY decide when the game ships, not valve :)
I'd be surprised if they set the date back without telling valve though.
CYer, Blitz

'was just quoting from Shacknews..

Ahhh, my mistake. I wasn't sure where the quote ended :)
CYer, Blitz

(Oh noes, another old thread being replied to! I think it's better to continue old threads with similar topics and have more of a foundation for discussion, so that's what I'm going to do)

Anyway, there's more Half Life 2 shenanigans for your interest. I know most of you are pretty much beyond caring at this point, but I found it interesting. The guy who ran PlanetHalflife for oh so many years has given the job the boot, citing too much crap from Valve. Not one to silently disappear, he's left a goodbye message bringing up all the misleadings and crap Valve have given towards the September 30 release date and after. I'm sure this has ruffled a few feathers at Valve [:)] [url="http://www.forumplanet.com/planethalflife/topic.asp?fid=6549&tid=1352802"]His goodbye message here[/url].

thats a good story [:)] no doubt like you say feathers have been ruffled, he probably doesnt exist anymore!!

"Lombardi told a co-worker of mine, to his face, that the game was still coming out September 30th worldwide. Some would call this marketing, but I'd call it lying."

I'm confused; Isn't that the same thing? :)

Well with any luck the game will be pushed back until next year so that everyone has a few extra dollars to buy tribes and FFvTTR. :)

if i saw hl2 and ff beside each other on the shelves, and i only had money to get one
id get ff
but thats just me i guess...

quote:Originally posted by Souri
I know most of you are pretty much beyond caring at this point

Yep :) However, I'm surprised that Valve screwed up so bad with this, they actually managed to keep it quiet for so long so as not to heighten any anticipation, then they announced it, then delayed it just like everyone else! I predict we'll see Half Life 2 sometime next year (2005). I also predict that it won't be as groundbreaking by the time it comes out.

You know, the [url="http://www.half-life2.de/index.php?news=305"]latest screenshots[/url] have left me unimpressed already which I find worrying. I reckon they really missed the boat when it wasn't released on Sept 30 last year, with so many good titles coming soon now.

Anyone know if the source engine is available to be licensed (and been licensed) yet? iD have the right idea with Doom 3, they haven't completed the game, but the engine was completed quite some time agaon, and is already licensed out to several companies, so that Doom3 engine based games will still look fantastic when they come out (instead of being 2 years too late etc.)
If valve haven't started licensing the engine yet they could be really screwing up.
CYer, Blitz

This Half life situation is just getting worse and worse isnt it -_-
personally i was never interested, i bought HL1 on a whim and didnt enjoy it. But its gotta be doing some major damage to Valve, and that i dont like to see to happen to any developer. I reckon youve got the right idea blitz, and i cant say that ive heard of any licenses going out.

quote:Originally posted by Blitz
If valve haven't started licensing the engine yet they could be really screwing up.

vampire the masquerade bloodlines (in dev at troika) is using the source engine

I suspect that the game WILL look slightly dated (but good) and that yes, valve HAVE screwed up pretty badly. But these sins will be forgiven when (if) they release a great game.

I personally dont care much about the politics behind it (i love to hear about it of course, but thats different), so long as the end product is worth the money.

Wait and see i guess.
Cheers

It would be nice if it was all about the end product, but it seems that gamers out there are fairly prepared to rip apart a company if they don't deliver on delayed promises. Just look at the recent history of leaks etc. The problem is, games get hyped well before they are even close to finished, whereas, for example, a movie gets hyped when it's in post production stages and there will always be certainty when it comes to marketing a release date.

I don?t think movies have any more certainty about making a release date then games do. There are many major films that begin the marketing hype very early ? like in pre-production phase. I just watched the Alien 3 DVD documentary, and they started the advertising campaign before they even had a script ? so it became more about making a release date and less about making a movie (hence such a poor movie ? IMO). Lord of the Rings is also a great example of marketing a product well before it?s finished, though in that case they pulled it off.

I think this is the biggest problem with both games and movies ? pressure to ship on a certain date regardless of what state the product is in. I always think that in the end it?s good if a production gets held back, as it often means a better end product.

I personally would rather wait another 6 months or whatever, if it meant a better game in the end. So what if the company ?breaks their promise??

Best movie marketing so far: The Matrix.

Best of all, for Warner Bros, they hardly did any marketing. The catch cry did it for them, "What is the Matrix?". People flocked to the cinemas to see "What" it is. They loved it, told their friends, and the rest is history.

I had some of my crappy models up there for a while, but I have mae no money from it. I suppose if you were a good enough modeller and made decent stuff and put it up there you might amke a few bucks. But now me.