Work in progress

looking good, what's the poly count on the models?

thanks pk. knight is 2414 tris. and the surfer is 4086 tris.

They cool but!! his hands are too small and so are his feet,,as a simple rule feet are as lang as your forarm, and your hand is as big as your face

Hands can be bigger than your face. I saw a girl on the bus today... very long fingers...

Overall pretty Good Denz, but I think they need more work on getting a clean polyflow and better topology.
Some areas like the surfers neck are dense with polygons and others quite sparse. With the surfer I think it would be possible to loose at least 500 - 700 tris off that mesh and retain the silhouette and smooth animation integrity.

I dont really think the hands and feet on the last guy are too small its refreshing to see something with an emphasis on a big torso with some normal sized hands / boots.

thanks :)

yeah, i agree the mesh could be cleaned up alot more.

Nice work man
Looking forward to seeing the textured versions.

I love it!

Very imaginative Pantmonger [:)]

Haha! awesome design, although is he 3 legged ?

Thanks guys, no he is not 3 legged , the right arm is blocked by the right leg.

Pantmonger

Not bad man, some construction issues such as a 5 sided poly on his hand and his upper arm could probably use a few more polys for a smoother look. Keep at it.

do you have any images in particular you are working from (like as a reference) so that we can get an idea of what your sort of trying to imitate (just ofcourse theres been multiple illustrators who have done the hulk with different proportion and such).

Hey Chris, looking good, I'll leave proper comments to the artists but keep up the good work!

looks awesome, pretty good tex for a one day job! very stylish render wd

Very nice
A good job texturing too for one day. Lacks a bit of shading but it looks like you were going for that kind of look. What res are they? also whats the polycount on the models?
The noses look a little odd though, nothing major though :)

Bazz: Thanks mate :)

Moonunit: Thank u

Mark : good spot on the nose... it does look very funny. The facial anatomy are very incorrect basically the whole thing is very stylised.. because i drew the template and not using real people as reference, which i should have *doh*. oh wells it was a good practice. though next time round im using references. im not happy with the hair on the black chick as well... i will have to make little changes.

The polys are ramped up to 1.5 million polys. I have a larger scale image. which truly shows the textures, but cant post it cause it is too high rez.

Thanks again.

Well no one said they don't want to see high res... where's the problem?

Nice models btw.

Leviron: The pic is too high res to post - (theres a size limit of the pics we can upload)

Ninja: Kick ass man [:)] both there faces remind me of Courtney Love.

i really like the stylised look, and the colours too.

Hi all,

Thank you for your kind comments...

Leviron: As requested a very high resolution render of the image. Sorry for the massive file size because somehow i compress a little the details and colour seem to loose the texture. Kinda wiered [?]

HIGH RESOLUTION [xx(]: [url]http://www.members.optushome.com.au/cconcepcion/WIP/ptenhires.jpg[/url]

I will post wires and also single renders of the chicks soon. [:D]

I saw this posted on CG Talk. IT was pretty cool. Really well done for the style :)

Hazard - Is that Courtney Love comment a good or a bad thing ;)

Cool looking Samus dude.. not a bad model at all.. however I do wonder how it would animate.. especially in the shoulder area.. I remember from playing the game that the armour is in segments and as you progressed through the game you got more of your armour etc.. Perhaps you should keep this in mind and detach the mesh into parts so that when you rig you can use Rigid binding more effectively... :D

Still looks tops all the same..

and
Go Nintendo!

currently the arms are seperate segments to the body, so that it can function as a ball joint. i want to put the model into UT2k4, however that means using biped i would like to do a custom rig but then i would have to do 40 or more custom animations, which i dont have time for at the moment.

i would like to rig the sholder so one bone controls the ball and another controls the uper arm - as it is done in the game so that i can rotate each independantly. with biped though i cant do this cos the clavical dos'nt rotate. so all i can do is rig the ball and arm to the one arm bone. this means it wont function 'right' in how it rotates, but that's all i can do.

that said, i'm going to do a test and see if i can figure out a work around for it, even if it means adding extra bones to the biped and re-doing some animations. i plan on redoing the taunts and major animations anyway, so if i can get a way with the minor ones screwing up a bit it shouldnt be too bad.

oh, and if i do figure out a way to rig each speratly i'll remodel the arm/ball connection slightly so they actualy can move independantly.

Its got potential if you fix up for deformation and kill those glutenous excess polies but my biggest crit would be the anatomy, front on its alot better but no one is that straight side on.

Humans curve all over the place, even in mecha bodysuits.

And for good rigging you need the arms and legs bent at the elbows and knees just a little anyway.

Good start though man, keep us posted.

samus makes abosolutly no sence anatomy wise (just think how small her head must be to fit inside the helmet and where her sholders are), and that has troubled me from the start. so i figured just do it as it's done in the game model. the spread sheet i was working off are actual orthographic renders of the game model, and it matches up pretty well.

i agree about the glutenous polys, but again i was trying to capture the detail of the game model so i'm at odds with what to do? do i strip it down to a levl i would normaly model at? or do i keep it at the detail it is (or even put more in)?

you're right about bendig the arms and legs - i should have noticed that, i'll get right on it.

here's a scaled down version of the spreadsheet i was working off. i didnt want to post it without permission, but it's no longer on the artists site so i cant direct you to it.

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/LiveWire/2005223195113_aam.jpg[/…]

EDIT: actually looking at it again now the back could maybe curve in a little more. i'll lok at that.

Jebus, no wonder I never liked that game [:P]!!

Oh well in that case your spot on.

You could use normal maps for alot of her detail.

just a quick note, samus isnt human. im sure someone who actually likes the metroid games (as apposed to myself :P) could tell you the actual name of her race.

nice mate

Actually, Ive seen pics of her without the mask on and if shes not human she damn close (blonde hair and all [:)]) anyway I'm guessing she shares similar anatomy.

And I doubt any bipedal race would be straight up and down, its just not natural for balance unless of course she lives on a 0-gravity world in which case she also wouldn't need anywhere near as much muscle mass that is implied by that suit [:P]

Im not really a fan of the straight up and down stuff either - But the model is accurate to the existing model - good job on that [:D]

Dont be afraid to take an existing concept and skew it a bit - if you had taken that design and built it in a relaxed pose with some non bolt upright positioning I would have said you'd one-upped the one thats been built for the game by a long shot.

Nevertheless the model is quite tight - nice poly distribution and flow but like Malus mentioned you could grab alot of that detail with a normal map if you felt like it [:)]

That design just looks strange to me heh - personal preference tho.

Hey he/she looks cool :) Could use some more tightening up but its comming along well!

The hands look oddly small though. You might want to make them a bit bigger because next to the feet they just look tiny. (feet and hands are roughly the same size)

MoonUnit: I'm a fan of the series and i can tell you that [;)] she's human but with Chozo blood in her veins, so all things considered her proportions should be human.

HazarD: i would like to model a version from the original saums design pre-gamecube. a bit more realisticly proportioned and a lot more gritty. i think i'll just work on matching the design with this one and then do the original design. but with that i'll have a look at posing her in my own way and probably normal map it too (the grittyness of it lends itself to normal mapping i think).
i agree about the design looking strange - the first time i saw it i was so excited cos it was 3d metroid, then i looked closer at the body structure and thought, wtf??

Anuxinamoon: i see what you mean. i'll look into that thanks. i actually made the hands slightly bigger than the game model cos i thought they looked a bit small.

EDIT: originally the original GC samus was very much like the earlier games, but nintendo wanted it changed to the shiny design that game out, apparently. here they are side by side:

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/LiveWire/2005224212156_saums-com…]

i reworked the mesh a bit late last week, and have since unwrapped it and started on the texture. i've decided to go for the 'bugger it' approach with reguards to the polycount. i figure it's not everyday i get to do a model as detailed as i want, so i'm bloody well gonna do it now dagnamit! so ive changed the arms to move better, and added a face behind the visor, as well as tweeking a few other areas. all up it's now 5101 tris.

the hands (and in fact the whole forearm) is a little bigger now
the elbows are bent
legs are not - that would require a bit more tweeking to move, and since i'm rigging with biped for unreal, they can be straight so there's no real point in bending them in this case anyway.

as for the unwrap - it's entirly symetrical, which i somwething i never wanted to do again, but my reasoning is this: it's a syemtrical design, its a clean tezxture (few scratches, etc) and it will have a reflection map on it, so that will elliminate an small scratches from showing up that well anyway. hopefully i'm right. the next model's texture will be asymetrical!! i swear! (to myself as much as anyone else)

as for the two textures: one is for the body, the other is for the visor cos that will have an alpha map. i decieded to put it on a seperate map rather than use an alhpa for the entire body which dosnt need it. also i put the eye on the visor texture cos i could.

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/LiveWire/200531201129_samus-wire…]

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/LiveWire/200531201214_wiresbody…]

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/LiveWire/200531201253_wiresvisor…]

looks brill dude, did you say your riggin it for unreal as in to be deathmatch character? you might want to get a hold of the skeleton before your call it a day for modelling because unless you want to make all of your own animations, it really needs to fit the proportions of the skeleton. You can run into so many problems otherwise.

hmm, i posted a reply to your comments yesterday, but for some reason they're not here today. strange. here's basically what it was though:

i did some quick tests and the deformation does bugger up a fair bit. however i'm re-doing most of the major animations anyway. any minor ones that srew up to much i'll rework a bit too, and any minor ones that anrt to bad i'll leave as is. in the end though i'll try and redo as many as i have time for basically.

been riggin her and i've hada weird problem. i've had a simular problem before which was fixed simply by resetting the Xform, but that hasnt helped in this case.

basically i have a box linked to the clavical bone of a biped to control the sholder guard. when the clavical moves (or i move the box) the shodler guards moves correctly, however when i rotate the box it and the mesh distorts in a weird way. it's worse on different angles.

i'm using physique, and i tryed skin too and that made no difference.

anyone have any ideas what's causeing this or how to fix it or work around it? i really need to be able to rotate the sholder guard freely in this rig (and still have it compatable with unreal and without doing a compete custom rig). i havn't done much rigging before (i've been "gunna" learn custom rigs for a while now) so the answer might be obvious.

examples pics:
[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/LiveWire/20053433236_weird.jpg[/…]

here's an short AVI of the problem in motion:
[url]www.primedgames.com/files/weird.zip[/url]

Have you had any luck fixing the problem yet? Since no ones responded, I thought I?d chip in, though not sure if it?ll help much.

I?ve had this problem before too, though always with custom rigs. I think it?s something to do with rotating a piece that is linked in the middle of a chain, so it?s rotation axis is going off the start or end of the chain, and not that pieces own centre. Or something like that? not really sure, so I was hoping someone would explain the problem.

Anyway, I?ve solved it in the past by adding dummy helpers between the offending pieces and recreating the hierarchy with the dummy?s in place. So then the piece rotates normally and the invisible dummy node distorts instead.

Not sure if that?ll help at all, since I?ve never had the problem with a biped, only with custom rigs that I?ve set up to animate mechanical parts (so it?s not even using a skeleton structure). But maybe if you play with linking dummy nodes around the offending area you might be able to solve the problem? If all else fails, it might be time to explore custom rigging? [:)]

Good luck, let us know how you go.

thanks i'll have a look at that. i havnt had a chance to go over it again yet cos i've been to busy with asessment. however i'm thinking the problem mightbe having the box rotate at it's centre, rather than at one end. i'm not to sure how this could effect it badly, but i figure i'll try re-creating the biped and set up new sholders bone with it's pivot at the base - though still located in the centre of the sholder mesh, and then see what happens (thank god for physique's save/load weights).

I tryed riggin it to a bone with it's pivot at the base, and as i thought, it didnt work. i gave your way a go palantir and it worked. fantastic! i simly added another bone between the clavical and the sholder box and now it's fine. when i rotate the connecting box it distorts - so it seems your right about connecting something to the middle of a chain - but if i rotate the sholder box it works ok.

excelent, one step closer to getting this finsihed. but, now it's back to assessment for a while...

i wanted to incude teh final textured model in my demo reel so i spent the time last weekend to finish it up:

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/LiveWire/200532923957_samus-rend…"[/img]

having a bit of trouble getting the shadders to look right in UT (cos without the glossyness the texture looks kinda flat - as i intended cos the shadder is suppsoed to fix that). i'll get it working eventually though. all that's left now is that animations, but they can wait a while yet.

nice work. Looks like metroid.:)

If you could. My partners and I are working on a Metroid Prime map for Halo: Custom Edition. We want to use your model because it seems the most realistic to use out of all. We have all the tags and stuff. We just need a good Samus model. Well... our current one looks as gay as Michael Jackson at Chuckie Cheeses... :P. If you could please let us use it. When are you going to release this publicly.. if not? - MrChief

once i get some time i want to finish it for ut2k4, until then i wasn't intending to release it anywhere, but a few people on polycount want a copy to do some alternative textures for, so i'll probably hand around an sdk eventually. as for use in your mod, maybe. i sent you a PM aswell.

Thanks... you're an awesome modeller... we saw your work. Good job... :) By the way. I didn't recieve a pm from you, or does it just take long?

oh sorry, it wasnt you. you dont know someone calling themselves Lightning do you? they asked the same question at the same time about using my model in a mod, so i got confused. either a coincidence or your both on the same team.

Yeah... we're on the same team. :P No need to worry...

can u make only the beam,with no body plz???Like for a first-person shooter???

the light is fine. not dark at all.

a few sugestions though: i fyou're going for a modeling job i would show some more wireframes - you only show a couple and they dissappear pretty quick. show them for a little longer (not too long though i hate models that rotate 10 times around)

likewise if you're want to show off your texturing show some flats and perhaps put detail on the screen (tris, texture size, etc)

put your contact details at the begining and the end.

and is that a game at the end or is it just a rendered animation? if it's a game make sure you point out exactly what you did in it (if it was a group effort) either on the showreel on in a text doc accompanying it. also you may want to spend a little more tim showing some more of the game to (depending on how much there is to show) as having worked on a mod or short game is a reasonably good alternative if you havnt got industry experience.

being a student myself i cant give you a professional oppinion, but all this is just what i've picked up over the past couple of years reading and listening to what people want in showreels, and most people tend to say the same sort of things with little variation.

Thanks ill work on that stuff more and put up a new version :)

ok updated hows that now?

I think it all looks really nice, as stated above however it might be wise to make it a clear 'modeller' reel or 'animation' reel. It's good to show that you can be multitalented however if you're applying for a position as a modeller they wont want to see animation stuff and visa versa. If you apply for an all rounder position then send your modelling and animation reel.

Also as stated above it's not really clear what the final 'subject' is showcasing. It needs to be clear, I.e. show the assets modelled then show them in the world if you want to give them context. After saying this however I believe that the number 1 rule in show reels is ONLY show your BEST stuff. This last car game it most definitely not upto standard of your other stuff so leave it out. If you really want to make sure people know what you're capable of make sure your resume/cover letter tells them.

PS keep resumes to 2 pages max!

the best way to tell people if it's a moddeling or animaton show reel is simply to put it in the title, eg:

Gibbz
Moddeler
Animator

cant get mcuh clearer than that!

Are juniors usually just a modeler or animator? they look for both when looking for a junior?

I think my contact info at the start makes it look to cluttered :|

my showreel says modeller, animator, mapper - that means i can do all three, and it's all three that i'm showcasing. if you're applying for a specific possition then you should have a special showreel for that. for instance i have a deicated level design showreel as well as my generic showreel.

Unless you're really good I'd focus on your best skillset and go for that, if not you may be wasting time for both you and the employer.

In an ideal world a character artist could model, unwrap, rig, skin, texture and animate but if you can't then get at least 2 of the core skills higher (modelling, texturing, rigging and animating)and your in with a better chance than the jack of all trades sort of thing.

Alot of companies specialise too, modellers don't animate, animators don't texture etc.

Thers nothing wrong with having a reel that shows you have more than one skill but only and this is a big bold only if all the skills that are as good as each other.

Alot of people think they should throw everything at a company but the minute you see something shit on a reel, ZIP, your mind can instanly be turned off hiring the person.

Just remember, bad animations can detract from good modelling and visa versa.

i agree, i do not include texturing or concept art on my showreel as they are far from my strengths. and by your reasoning i probably shouldnt inlcude 'animator' as one of the titles, if only cos i dont have much animation to show. i like doing it and i would like to show it - guess i should look into this for my next showreel.

i think there jeasuous of your abilitys.. these are awesome... i like the PS2 one the most.

as for crit... um... the zebra and web factor 5 ones are pritty weak. i wouldn't include them on my foilo.. maybe they view people on only there worst works and saw the factor 5 one.. but apart from those two.. the rest are great

Where abouts are you applpying for Makk? Perhaps you should include some paintings aswell and some other mediums (like flash). I went for an interview at Wollongong, my folio sucked and my flash stuff didn't work well but I seemed to have passed o_O (I didn't end up taking it though) The more complex you can go into your software packages the better because apparently they like you to learn all that by yourslef.

Your work is pretty sweet tho man... You should work with a few vector only adds and do up some stuff that would go onto large bollboard signs on the road. Also do some food packaging stuff. ;) apparently thats a big area for Graphic Designers.
The more variation you have the better I think and thats what will get you in I rekon anyway :D

Goodluck man!

what was the course? did you have an outline of what they were looking at/for?

The biggest thing that hits me when browsing your images is that they are all fun/cool graphics and not much down to earth design application or pieces that obviously show a really really worked and refined process. It would be good to see the logos applied to business cards, letter heads, products etc. Possibly including things like the PS2 ad may damage your chances, as it really only show off some photoshop work. The rest of the piece is appropriated - it would be better to create your own finctional PS2 competitor and marketing pitch. Then every aspect of the piece would be soley your creation...

have you considered applying to other institutions, maybe even interstate? eg I think SA design courses might be easier to get into than Melbourne ones, don't know about the other states. and in the mean time short courses are good in you have the ca$hola. If you are a bit sneaky and do your research you might beable to do a short course with tuition from the very people that will be assessing you folio next time you apply! a bit of a foot in the door so to speak.

I?m a graphic design student. I ain?t pro but I can tell you a few basic things about your designs.

I think your design lack the design principles.
Seriously do a series of images that focus on each principle of design.

They are:
Balance
Emphasis
Rhythm
Depth
Unity

The graphic design is about the manipulation of those principles. You must show them that you know what they are!
It is about visual communication.
Your work must mean the same thing to a wide range of people.

When you show them a piece, you should be able to explain why you used that image with that font and so on and what feeling you are trying to evoke from the viewer.
But keep in mind that you should talk but don?t rave on and on endlessly.

Good graphic designers hate seeing stuff that looks like filter work.

I remember someone in class doing something with filters; he got told that it looks tacky and cheap. Also in a design, every element is there for a reason. There is something called ?over designing? so there?s a simple and clean rule somewhere.

I think you might need to work on your typography knowledge too.

Thanks for replying guys. I applied at the Ballarat Uni (Arts Acadamey) here for a Diploma of Graphic Arts.
The info from your replies has been invaluable, I only wish I had done this before the interview and application.
You right in that there really isnt enough logo, package design, etc and evidence of design elements and principals. I think I understand now why I didnt get in.
I have another year to get another portfolio together and apply, thats if I decide to take that route.
Oh and Chris if your reading this, thanks agian for the email :)

Makk, you're a talented artist that the games industry could benefit from, why the heck would you want to throw away your skills into the field of graphic design? [:)]

I studied graphic design and worked fulltime as a graphic/web designer for a few years, and I have some regrets that I didn't spend that time developing my artistic talent instead. I'm seeing people at my age who went the fine arts path and wondered if I could have been at the extraordinary artistic level they are at now. Of course, I wouldn't have been able to afford it anyway, but if I could, I would have loved to have done a fine arts course. I did get a lot out of graphic design and I do enjoy seeing the creativity that people do in that field, but in my opinion the scope for self improvement is much lower in graphic design than in the field of visual arts (illustration, concept, painting etc). I mean, you could get a good hang of graphic design in a few years or so (and anyone can be a graphic designer), but mastering painting or human anatomy etc would take much longer, even if you have great drawing skills, which not eveyone has. In the end, do you want to be an expert at making throw-away advertisements or art that you can be proud of?

This is my opinion, but having been in the graphic design field for so long and observing the industry, it really is a field of follow the leader and copying the latest design trends that others have set. Grunge style, 40 degree angles and arrows, exploding 3D shards etc, now it's vintage or flat coloured shapes and figures with a retro 60's look. In a year that stuff will be old hat, trust me. Trends get outdated fast, and when you're following the trend, your work gets outdated too. I have a whole heap of old designs which I'd rather toss away because they've become a cliche of the fads from yesteryear.

Another thing is, you won't be making any work for yourself - you'll be designing work for clients, and what they say is the rule. Most of the design work I did made me feel like a design slave where I pretty much had little input of my own in the overall project. Some clients even have a thick book of guides and rules on what font types and colours etc to follow (e.g Microsoft and every other corporation). I spent 3 years on designing corporate things like that, and I'm not even proud to show a single one of them, whereas I am happy to show all the pixel art work that I did 10 years ago.

Anyway, the pluses for graphic design is that it's a much bigger field to get in to, and so finding work is easier (although it's pretty competitve too with so many people taking up graphic design). But personally, I think it's waste of talent for prople who have great illustrative skills.

...and don't forget, you're only JUST on the safe side of [url="http://www.paulkingsnorth.net/archives/2004/03/17_march_04_bil.html"]marketing[/url] (shudder).

Souri, hehe! Nobody seems to have anything nice to say about working in the graphic design industry!
I have often wondered what it would be like working with the negatives in this field (tight guidelines/rules, pushy clients, etc) and how I would deal with them. The reason why I was going for that industry is that there is more employment potential. Where as in the games industry, there isnt a lot there for me. No studios where I live plus the fact that I cant model is a pain.
I have been leaning towards going for a career there(game industry) but it wont be easy!

Souri : Amen to that! [:)]

I *know* exactly what your talking about. 5 years working for a respectable firm and at the end of it I walked away with a Mossimo Snowboarding Jacket and a perfect example of how not to run a business, and less artistic skills than when I started. *TRUTH* [:O]

My artistic skills where boxed up and shipped off to some unknown planet, and replaced with a more generic armament of rules, boundaries and guidelines which were imperative to stay within.

If you dont mind throwing away probably about 90% - 95% of your designer flair in favour of listening to how clients want there signs, displays, images then graphic design is for you =)

I think ive had this chat with you before also Mark [;)] Heed the words of the wise!

In the end you will do what you will, but just prepare for it. [:)]

As an about-to-be student of design, they were probably the most sobering comments I needed to hear.

In fact the reason why I'm not considering it at all is because it just seems the students are focused on getting things to look cool. (ie copy today's latest trendy inky blotchy screen print style and whack them nicely in place). It's an industry that tries to find inspiration from itself, and when you've seen the 15 millionth inky flowery butterfly design, you gotta question exactly how your work is gonna be accepted by clients who want only the latest inky vectory "in" thing. Then you consider if you do follow trend, then is it fulfilling for you?

That's probably going way to far. Initially all people do is design business cards and letterheads or make a website and what not, it shouldn't become a philosophical issue.

And yeah money would roll in easier in that field, you'd be surprised what you can pick out freelancing on common jobs like that, and you don't really have to have qualifications, just the tools.

Anyway, there's always a bigger picture - whatever it is for you, so there's gotta be a lot more avenues for you to take.

Good luck!

Hahaha! I was waitng for you to chime in Troy! :)
Ironhide, I was pretty much trying to get my pieces to look cool, Unfortunatly in doing so I completly missed demonstrating knowledge of fundamental design principals and elements. I agree with what you (and others) have said about following trends.

I don't want to discourage everyone from graphic design - I just hate seeing talent going to waste. I agree totally with Hazard, when you enter the foray of graphic design, you can pretty much kiss your illustrative/artistic skills goodbye because you most likely won't be using them at all for work. One of my most disheartening moments is picking up a pencil to draw some characters on paper for fun after a 5 - 6 year hiatus and realising that I drew the exact same looking things as I did back then.

[url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2767"]WanderingSwords[/url]'s post re-enforces what I mean a bit. Writing web apps, system applications to game dev programming is what graphic design is to game dev art for artists..

The jobs are with graphic design and system apps/web apps for business etc, and I'm sure it's much less stressful and pay more too, but it's boring work, and you won't learn as much or gain that much more skills doing it. 5 years of graphic design experience will give you nothing valuable, in my opinion, compared to the skills you'll learn working on games where you are constantly challenged all the time. Anyway, it's a tough decision, definately. One of my friends recently ditched a business apps job for a game dev job in Sydney with a pay cut, and isn't regretting it at all.

Anyway, I think I will stop polluting this thread with my rambling :D The most important thing I've ever learnt in graphic design is that less is more. Keep it simple and clean.

Graphic design in my opinion changes the way we work... things tend to be more about photographs and vectors... custom brushes and etc. However if you are with the right people, it can help you refine your tastes and definition of what is good and bad visuals.

Right now we're in the phase of black is boring. Saturated colours are awesome... etc.

About the illustration skill thing. I haven't done anime looking characters in a long time... been doing realistic ones lately and I can't do anime looking ones anymore. My line art is not as good now... but my colour knowledge is a lot better that it was a year ago. Sometimes illustration skills are not all about practice but also about knowledge and attention to detail and pushing yourself to get the shape right.

What does it bloody take to get work experience around here? is my main concern. I'm thinking about going to Sydney to look for some.

http://leviron.bio-hazardous.com/images/illuo.gif
http://leviron.bio-hazardous.com/images/liv_small.jpg <--- my crap.

This will be my last post/rant in this thread - sorry to hijack [:)]

But all i wanted to say was - until youve been there and done it, you wont actually realise the truth of what happened to the time you spent working for a design firm.

I dont mean to discourage anyone from making the choice - but just be aware that a majority of your design skills *will* be cast aside for corporate standards. Its as simple as that.

Regardless of your input or whether you have excellent design skills, an eye for detail, colours and composition - you will not have many opportunities to express those. And when they do come about - more than likely they will be handed to a senior member, or those who pounce upon it first.

Gain familiarity with staying within strict mathematical boundaries whereby logos must remain x distance from the edges, and be 2x from the bottom of the page with the only exceptions being logo variation A, B & C. I have worked with very high profile clients that have even gone as far as measuring the formulae to check whether I had followed the guidelines, and in one case been asked to redo some signage due to a logo being placed roughly 3mm out from where it should have been on a 2400mm x 1200mm sign.

Of course it wasnt all bad - the money was pretty good and youll always be able to find work between firms, so if security is a major issue its a good choice of profession.

Sorry if that sounds discouraging, im merely expressing the nature of my experience in working for a respectable design firm.

As in you put it in the bleed area or just outside of the text area?

Let's hope your video editing part of the course isn't done in Adobe Premiere... it's evil and most of the effects are lame as.

looking neat, the horses legs would look better more solid though.

I quite like how the horse legs are reduced to loose line work - sort of captures the motion in an interesting way.

Nice and dirty bit of paper too! creates a nice mid done that I see you have worked back into with an eraser. I would be interested to see you push that technique further. I've seen life drawings created in a similar technique with charcoal to great effect.

That dog is just awesome. Such a dynamic pose :D

Youve come along way in the short time that youve been on sumea conundrum - keep up the pace dude [:)]

thanks for the replies, i havnt been able to access the net for a while so sorry for the late response.

i really like that dog.

thanks a lot, here's a pastel i did last night

[IMG]http://img223.exs.cx/img223/5641/wreckedcar4mv.jpg[/IMG]

the car is bleeding!

yeah that's pretty cool, looks very disgusting- dont know if that was your intent but i like the result!

yeah, it was a study for a horror/heavy metal themed project for school, so i was going for a repulsive look

very cool, rather impressionist

thanks, ive got a few other things id like to post, but cant access them because they're at school. so heres a Bargue drawing i did a few days ago.

[IMG]http://img210.exs.cx/img210/2452/seatedsculpture5wi.jpg[/IMG]

Hey John, pretty good stuff man.
The face (on the front view)needs a bit of tweaking, specifically the nose area and jawline look a bit big and masculine.
The left view seems to be a bit slanted, like she is leaning on an angle.
Might be handy to use the grid option in PS to make sure things are lined up.
The full colour pose is a good addition to the piece, though there are some hard shadows that dont need to be there.
I did a quick paintover to show you what I mean-
[img]http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rowanfamily/johnpaint.jpg[/img]
Remember that hard shadows can often draw peoples eyes towards them, so make sure to use them where you want people to look the most.
The flesh tones you chose were quite good as well.

Hey, nice job John.
A few tips with model sheet making.
As you may know, model sheets are used by a 3D artist to create a 3D model to look like your concept. 3D Artists usually build only half of the model then flip it. So the same sort of thing would apply to the model sheet. Just drawe half then flip it. Then add any different detail to it if the concept isn't asymetrical.

It is vitally important to make sure you align each and every part of the model sheet to each of the drawings. Even the littlest things have to be aligned. You can do this is PS by having your front flipped horizontally to form the back. To draw the side just make a new layer over the front and draw on that. Guide lines are good too :)

Also its wise to not have a perspective on your model sheet as a 3d Artist usually uses orthographic views for their front, side and back.

Its looking good tho John and I'm sure you will get the hang of it easy [:)]

Yeah I'm pretty anal when it comes to model sheets. I guess thats come from using model sheets that are more or less inaccurate or containing grey areas.
Kind of defeats the purpose of having one IMO, just creates a guess situation and even more problems if the model sheet is being used by someone other than the person who drew it up.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/ddonline/screens.html?page=27

Thats a good example of a model sheet, theres a few more there too.
I guess the other reason I like to have a good solid, technically correct model sheet is because it sets the precise standards that i like to have in place right from word go.

All in all its personal preference for the modeller I think. But the way I see it is ultimately if I'm doing the model sheets I want the modeller to be able to replicate my design as clearly and precisely as possible - and I cant really expect that if I give a model sheet that isnt precise.

Also is not a biggie usually for human form because any modeller worthy of his position in a games company should be at a level where they can judge human anatomy well enough.

But when you get into armour design, or monsters it starts getting pretty frustrating lining something up in front view and having it look really strange and in a different position when you skip to side view = guess work = bad.

/my 3 cents

thanks for the feed-back Anux & Haz - I think I might redo the model sheet implementing the suggestions.

and good call on the harsh shadows Makk. I have re-worked the painting this arvo, looks much better :) I might continue on it a bit more too.

thanks

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/johnn/200522012425_priestess_wip…]

I think you don't need that shadow thingie. I would have just manipulated the front view to make the back view too... causes less guess work since the outline would be consistent.... after all it is digital media.

omg... that example is so...technical. I'd die if I had to do something like that with real media...especially if someone was more anal about details than me. I?d refuse to do it in ink nibs... that would be totally insane but not impossible...hehe time is the key...lots of time.

edit:
after looking at your colour pose. I see a lot of problems with it.
The way your rendered her arm, it looks strange because of the shape of the highlight... it's squashed. Also there won't be that much armpit if her arm is relaxed.

She doesn't look feminine because she has over defined bold features. Like the face, neck and knee caps.

John, I think if you want to make the face more feminie, you might need to round out her face a bit more, as her face seems a bit flat. Also open up the eyes a little and lessen the grumpy lump thats happening in between her eyebrows. I think that might help a bit.

Hehe, now that I actally looked closely at that Dungeons & Dragons Online model sheet, the left is a bit off from the front [:p]
It just goes to show even the pro's have trouble sometimes [;)]
But guessing they only had a short period of time to complete it, it's still pretty good.

Attempt #2 on the model sheet. The line work is much more accurate across the three pics. Did the final drawings in pen too giving a slightly sharper outline (probably could have used a bit of line weight variation on them upon reflection.)

I'm binning the painting and starting again. not sure if I will approach it with the intent of creating a quick colour/texture guide to support the model sheet or attempt to do a finished, polished painting.

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/johnn/200522271659_priestess_mod…]

Side view looks like shes about to fall over, wouldn't be great as modelling reference, others are great.

Nice stuff though man, love the colours pieces. [:)]

Awesome stuff as always.
I got all excited when I saw you had posted [:p]

keep up the good work
your work always gets me inspired [:D]

awsome work weather :)

love the 3rd one.

nice work, kudos for putting all the shine and tone to all of those wires!

Thanks for all your kind words,
Here is the actual context for the wire statue image.
This is what the image looked like before it was composited in flame.
Unfortunatly I do not have actual final comp.
Also I am not sure who took photo image nor who the guy is, but full credit to them.

Cheer

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v352/weather/Sony_concept.jpg[/IMG]

the japin house painting inspires me the most.. the use of detail and awesome colour skills make want to kill you with envy XD WMHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

soooo pritty

fantastic looking stuff Weather. Any further info about you images (artistic process, job brief details etc) that you care to share would be great.

Was your wire statue used in the sony ad champaign? I remember the TV ads for the wireless home sound systems with the obselete wiring being reused in unorthodox ways but don't recall details.

yep, it looked fantastic on the big screen when i saw it before "sky captain and the world of tomorrow"...

Hi looks Good

That's lookin' great Groady! Only thing I'll point out is that the mid-ground and background are blending together instead of being separate. The first lot of trees behind your lil guy look almost on the same plane as he is. Either 'cooling' down the trees (adding blue) or warming up him and the outcrop he's on. Great stuff though. Looking forward to it out of WIP @:-)

Thats awesome work you have there Groady. I especially litle the little dudes face :) Also the blood red of the water is appealing to me.

It is all very well done!

"blood red is appealing to me"

[:O]

Nice work groady!

I really like the little guy - although im not sure whether hes watching what hes up to or staring off into the distance. I really like the atmosphere you have going on in the picture!.

I notice the same thing ( even moreso ) with your piccy there 3DArty - he seems to not really be focussed on fishing at all but gazing off into the distance.

There definately should be some red reflected off onto the ground around the lake and also the character's feet as well, I reckon.

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm getting close to finishing this. Been adding more detail and texture to the trees and character. I've also added light rays and added more definition to the bank on the right. Still need to tighten some things up but generally I'm quite happy with this.

[img]http://www.graphicscenes.com/Swamp27.jpg[/img]

Is it just me, or does that character remind you of Malus?
[:p]

quote:Is it just me, or does that character remind you of Malus?

Hehe! It sorts does 'aye [:D]
No offence intended though Dean!

Holy Crap! [:O]

I'ts out now man - no more masquerade, They know your a little green monster!

My disguise... nooooooo.....

Its only because I'm green...JJJEEEEEZZZ!!

it's the teeth.

LOL at the subject line.
They look really cute, i like em
as for the edge loops and stuff someone else will have to reply soz :(

Heh Iron, I remember that challenge [:D]
Pretty cool little dudes! Just looking at the big fat dude's arms and I could see that you might have a problem with the deformation on the elbow. Not only in just bending but if you wanted a wrist twist the forearm would just invert itself :p

A good way to learn about deformation is while modeling just set up a small rig and weight the verts to the rig. Then you can test the deformation of the model and can fix it accordingly.

Also, With your textures try not to paint to much with a soft edged brush on a smaller texture rez and don't save your texture files in a file format that uses lossy compression. Try .TGA or the good old .BMP [;)]

When drawing any sort of non organic image (symbols, weapons, machinery and buildings) It would be best to use some rulers and other mathematical instuments to so the work with. Cleanliness is next to godliness and it will make your work look 120% more professional. If you can get your hands on a mathomat or even some french curves, they help alot with the curved lines found on some axes and other weapons. :)
Clean up your art, present it neater and your work will shine.

With your faces, I suggest looking into a few anatomy books for proportions and such. I recently bought one called "Dynamic Figure Drawing" It's a really helpful book and could prove some use to you ;)

Anyway good luck with it all :)

^^all good points.. and there points i know of..

the main reason why the pics above are so messy is becouse there brainstroming thumbs... i mean when i get to the developmental drawing.. yes of corse their going to be clean and ruled and using perspective and grathic convensions... these thumbs needed to be done as quick as possable.. thus why they look like they where drawn on bark. :)

not too bad, theres a lot of work here so that certainly shows a decent level of application which is good. i have to back up Anuxinamoon's point about anatomy, improving it will really help a lot. books are great and certainly worth getting but if for some reason that isn't possible id suggest browsing through a few of these sites.

have a look through all of this section (and tutuorial sub section) of conceptart
[url]http://www.conceptart.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7[/url] especially the tutorials by fredflickstone and kchen ( both pros with a massive understanding of anatomy and drawing skills in general.

also its worth looking through this site, [url]http://www.tsofa.com/forum/index.php?sid=9923c06ab0b2eea509317900866356…], particularly anything by mentler

hopefully that helps because its certainly worth continuing your concept work

thank a bunch for the links.. it'll take me a while to get through them but the help is much thanked. i printed off some atonnamy sheets of at school so im reveiwing them as of this moment for when i get to the figgure drawing stage.

Several things really strike me as 'not your run of the mill design' with this pants - I really like the pincer arms being second in line rather than right at the front - im not sure whether they would get in the way - but thats a refreshing change.

The little white parts sticking out on the back of the shell are interesting - I'm not sure whether they are there for a reason, but would probably hinder his ability to launch from the sand toward its prey.

Love the secretion idea too - very animal like behaviour.

Top Job [:)]

[:D] i really like it!
Did you have to give it a bio for the comp?
lol, that was pretty good to! you can almost imagine it eating lol.
Tops.

i saw the entry and guessed it was you (the name and location sought of gave it away). it was a difficult topic and you ended up with a nice concept. the shape and colour is really good, the feeling of it certainly matched your description. hopefully you keep posting every week

HazarD: Thanks, I?m not sure if the front most legs would get in the way either, but I wanted some additional stability and balance for that huge ?snout?, As for the little bits sticking out the back that?s more of a style of substance thing. Every now and then I sacrifice realistic design for perceived cool (Hell I do this a lot of the time actually) As for the secretion thing, it just seemed right.

Octane: Thanks, I?m glad you liked it and yes the Bio is part of the comp.

conundrum: Thanks, I?m going to endeavor to post every week, I want to become an active member of the forum and hopefully learn a few things from that huge pool of talent. I felt quite sorry for your little guy, he look in so much discomfort trying to pass that enormous orb, poor little bugger :)

Pantmonger

Nice :)
The left pincer arm could be pulled out a bit more, ites very close compared to the one at the right.
There is not much on the way of surface texture as well. It looks like the shell is the same material/surface as the rest of its body, putting a in a few white specs on the legs could make them more slimy and wet looking.
Nice description too btw

Thats really cool Pants. Without seeing the ref it is hard to know if this is correct or not, but her forearms look a little flat (no thining at her wrists), and the crease between her chest and breasts looks like it is riding a little low. I could be completely wrong though :)

How long did this one take?

Aven: Thanks for the comments, I have fixed the wrist thing (I think) as for the Breast thing, the woman just has quite low breasts, which is exacerbated by the raised shoulders.

I have taken on board a lot of the comments on couple of forums and did a bit more comparison between the ?painting? and the photo and made some changes.

* Sharpened the outlines on the body and fixed some of the overly sloppy brushwork
* Fixed the foot so it looks like a foot and not a rude mating between a club and a blob.
* Changed her nose / cheek / chin and the light on her face to make it look more like the woman it is supposed to look like.
* Took some of the more eye distracting lines out of the background
* Made the legs more separate and distinct.

[img]http://www.pantmonger.com/illustrations/golden_nude_mk2.jpg[/img]

Pantmonger

Just looking at her breasts.... It looks to me as they round out down at the bottom of her rib cage and not toward the top of her rib cage. Also, there doesn't seem to be any gravity affecting them.

What you have said is true, but I just overlaid this image on top of the reference pic and I?m only out by a few millimeters here and there so I?ll just have to assume that the breasts on this model are just a little odd (artificial maybe?)

Aven: Sorry forgot to answer the time thing. It took a bit less then 3 hours for the first part and and extra 2 for ?bug fixes? because it was fiddly

Pantmonger

quote:Originally posted by Pantmonger

so I?ll just have to assume that the breasts on this model are just a little odd (artificial maybe?)

I was wondering the same, myself :)

Heres a bit more
i don't like the way the grind looks need to change it

[img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Attachment: [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Octane/20052593528_model1.jpg"]model1.jpg[/url]
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i might get there 1 day.[:)]

Hey Octane - What kind of a polycount you going for ? Unless your trying to keep it down quite low maybe under 1200-1500 Tri's then I would avoid the 7 edges leading to that single point at the front of his armpit there. Instead get some good lines flowing around the shoulder like this : ( btw this is only how I would approach it - so purely personal preference )

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Hazard/2005259497_FrontHelp.jpg[…]

Shortcut Key for Remove edge is Backspace in case you didnt know - so just select edge and backspace.

Hopefully that helps a bit [:)]

Thanks Hazard, you should seen the arm pit ealier lol it was a mess.
i have no polycount just trying to get better and yeah i kinda sat down and learned the short cuts to try and move a bit faster ;) but yeah i was hopeing someone would draw where to put the lines it's very helpful.

Changed a bit more..... please tell me if something doesnt sit right [;)]

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a few more pics

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heres the ref image
[img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Attachment: [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Octane/20052735917_ref.jpg"]ref.jpg[/url]
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I like both of them. The first 1 really great it has a mood about it.
The drawing is really cool 2 thou her left shoulder looks abit wonky. (i'm sure wonky is'nt the word i was looking for)
i wish i could paint and draw like that [:D]

aye i agree it looks like her arm is actually a bit down from the shoulder, allthough that could be just because of the heavy shading. That pic has a great sense of form about it though (bar the shoulder thing course), good work.

i like the top pic the most. but both are exseptional. (heh heh.. boobies heh heh..)

the hair and clothing seem to stand out the most for me. the best fetures.. atonamy is good.

Thanks for the comments guys, the shoulder is off a bit and her right breast hangs too low on the pencil image. I do also like the mood of the first pic, if only I could take credit for It, but that goes to the original photographer, I?m just mimicking and abstracting his magic.

Pantmonger

well, i like it - what i can understand of it anyway :D

definatly need some text!

colours i'm thinking to go with.

[img]http://members.optusnet.com.au/drummonds/prac/locoloursitpage1.jpg[/img]

awesome man, id like it even more if your drawings had more shading to them, like instead of just black bits and white bits there was more gradient. Still keep some of that heavy inking though.

could you try a purplely blue?? i don't know why but i reminds me of the movie underworld (vamps,werewolfs) so in stead of a sun rise try a moonlight??

Very nice stuff as usual.. You should submit some concepts for the Sumea mod [;)] [:D]

[img]http://members.optusnet.com.au/drummonds/prac/bloodbath.jpg[/img]

a nasty slice and dice

queen of Hybrid City -

some sample art. from an upcoming comic

[img]http://members.optusnet.com.au/drummonds/prac/newwork/loqueen.jpg[/img]

ok roughing her out

[img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Attachment: [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Octane/20052343238_image.jpg"]image.jpg[/url]
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almost there i think[^]
any crits?

[img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Attachment: [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Octane/20052363430_image.jpg"]image.jpg[/url]
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post some wireframes.

there we go [:)]

[img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Attachment: [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Octane/20052371354_front.jpg"]front.jpg[/url]
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construction and polyflow needs a lot of work. i sugest following a tutorial - pleanty on the web. dunno any exact locations myself, but someone else here will. or there might be a thread with links on in it.

edit:

there you go
[url]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1091[/url]

if you've got broadband check out polycount.com and look for 'poopinmymouth's site - he's got some great low poly tutes.

Thanks for your advice :)
Does anyone know of a good tutorial? google sucks

Class Act [:D] Love it!

looks really cool and fits seamlessy with the HL2 theme. the texture is really good... i forget that with these engines you still need to paint the highlights and shadows! :D ...the only thing that stood out to me was the boot size in comparison to the other exaggerated features. they are a realistic size, but seem to conflict visually with the huge armour padding everwhere else. just my observation

good work!

awesome model and texturing as usual jason.....[8D]

great job....[:D]

Hi ninja, how u been buddy? Haven't seen u around, add me to msn if u have it jason_dalton@hotmail.com

Hey, is that the same gun you [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/sprofilepic.asp?pic=23_mk405gallery1.jpg&id=23&…"]modelled in 2002?[/url] [:0] [:D]

Brilliant work! I noticed the [url="http://dystopia-mod.com/media/main.php?g2_view=core:ShowItem&g2_itemId=…"]old model[/url] looks noticably different, you've really improved it a lot! It's actually too good, making it a bit inconsistant to the other models [:O]

That character looks excellent. Any chance you could post up the wires?

holy hell mate :) nice work.

i like the proportions, cool lookin character.

erm... yes, yes i like it indeed.

Thanks guys! :D

Hehe Souri, yes it is the same gun i did for fun ages ago, but we're still gonna use it in the mod since it's already been done :p

Those old screens of dystopia had the model in with only placeholder textures, flat colours [:I]

The boots do look a little small
yeah, nothing else to say except, really, really good work :)

Wow! I love the texture! Its so crisp and well painted! Awesome model too! You never fail to amaze with your work :)

You know, I love the proportions! I am pretty much over the large boots space marine look of Quake 3 & Unreal Tournament etc which give them a cartoony feel to the character. So small boots and heavier armour elsewhere here make the model look quite unique!

sooooooooo pritty O.O..

Excelant texturing and design..kicks the crap out of my soilger design.. ^^Awesome..

nice work but when u going to update your profile

He is cool. Looks really portly. He would be very cool to see running (waddling) around in DM :D

thats very well done, you making a mod ? need some concepts done ?

...Crystal might not, but [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2682"]we do![/url]

that's right! a few more people have done some stuff now but we still need more!

alti: sure do m8, drop me a line jason_dalton@hotmail.com

Hey Octane, welcome to the Sumea forums.

I think the biggest problem that I noticed is the pose you chose to model this guy in. Typically character models should be built in the classic T-pose with arms straight out or at 45 degrees, and legs spread apart. This avoids problems later, particularly at the rigging stage. As it is, it?ll be a nightmare to separate the legs in animation without one leg grabbing verts off the other leg. It will also add to the difficulty of unwrapping.

The general design is pretty cool, and the proportions are good, though it?s certainly an unusual design for your first model (I?m not sure what?s going on with the head/upper body!). I?d recommend getting experience with simple human forms before venturing too far into fantasy.

Do you have any concept art and or reference material for this model? Posting a concept is always helpful for constructive crits.

Great effort for your first model though. Keep it up. [:)]

I understand what you mean. i dont have a ref image i got the genral shape from a tutorial ref image then started geting a bit carried away.

i've just finished it's head

[img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Attachment: [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Octane/200513061815_head.jpg"]head.jpg[/url]
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Pose aside - your showing signs of some nice form coming along, this is your first model you say ? pretty sweet for first model - can we some some wires ?

Yeah that?s right, it?s pretty awesome if it?s your first model. That heads pretty cool. Nothing else to crit really.

What kind of poly count have you got going? Also, posting a screen-grab with wires or a render with the wires made into a renderable spline is a good way to show the detail for crits regarding mesh flow etc.

sure thing

(Body)
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was trying to upload the head wires but it keep getting invalid string errors so i'll try again later [:)]

palantir i'm going for around the 3500 poly's for unreal. thou i don't think the theme is unrealish oh well
ok i'm going to stick it's head on and finish it up then try skinning him. i found a really cool uvw tutorial vid it makes it look easy anyway.

yeah it's my first attempt at doing a real model.
i have been mucking around with trying to learn modeling for a few weeks

ok finished him now to try and unrap him and texture it.[:)]

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Hey, great model, and very nice texturing. I love the overalls - they look excellant! The first thing that hit me was "wow, you got a lot of very bright colours in there", but looking the concept art, bright and colourful is what you're going for (the model looks even better than the concept). Are you planning to have those fingers bend, btw?

Thanks Souri,

Yeah, the fingers will be bending so I've added some vertices so they deform properly.

The World Of Padman http://www.worldofpadman.com/ mod is made in this colourful style.

It's a good interpretation of the initial illustration. As Souri said, it is very bright but after browsing the Padman site it fits in well with the over all feel. The only little little thing that I initially looked at and didn't like was the squareness of the finger ends. Sausage like fingers would be more like the illustration and i think might suit better (if sausage fingers are a modelling nightmare please ingone that comment and excuse me as I am not a modeller.)

Thanks JohnN,

Sausage fingers wouldn't be hard at all. I just don't think it's necessary to add more polys to the fingers since we are trying to keep the polycount as low as possible. I prefer to add more polys to the joints for proper deformation when animated.

Nevertheless, if more people think I should change the fingers then I'll consider it [:)]

Here's a render with some lights in the scene:

[img]http://dbz3dworld.homestead.com/files/funnyrendlights.jpg[/img]