Job and Work Experience

Hey Artemis

A current job opening at Infinite Interactive for a "Junior Artist/Illustrator" lists a salary of $38-42k.

I'd say most companies would offer a bit less than that for a junior position. But if you have a hot ass folio then companies are going to want you, so you could push up to around 40k maybe. Unfortunately as you have already realised artists get paid less then most other positions. Really it all comes down to passion though, if you really want to be a games artist then it will be worth taking the pay cut. You could consider doing some freelance work on top of a full-time position to make up for the pay cut, web design work pays pretty well.

I know a lot of people who take this option, as the work is usually pretty easy and can be done at home in one night or two.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the comment. And yeah, the more I think about it, the more it is a balance. How much do you love the job, versus how much do you love to get paid?

I've actually done the freelance Webdesign thing for a while. Got burned by some bad clients so kind of wary of that, but yeah. It does pay well for easy work.

Its good to have options at any rate.

Now to work on that "hot ass folio" haha. =3

Bronwynn from Conkerberry

Hi we have a Windows Server/Exchange/Active Directory administration role ($50-60K) with a games company in Perth. Would this be of interest to you? Once in the company you can probably get first choice at some trainee art roles.
Anyway, let me know.
Regards,
Bronwynn Lusted
Conkerberry Pty Ltd - Recruitment for Games Australia wide
Phone 02 9267 5714
Mobile 0427 690 971
145 / 336 Sussex St, Sydney 2000 NSW
bronwynn@conkerberry.com.au
www.conkerberry.com.au

You don't need any qualifications, in fact, you don't even need to be a gamer (but it helps). You have to be enthusiastic, have good communications skills, and be good at breaking a game.



Contact local companies in your area (check the Developer section of Sumea), and ask them about testing positions. Many companies hire testers as casual staff members when they have a batch of testing they need done, so if you call up at the right time you've got a good chance.



When I applied as a tester I wrote about a page about how much I loved games and wanted to be in the industry, including my favorite games, and my favorite genre's. If you want to demonstrate you can be a tester, grab a game and find 10 bugs (shouldn't be too hard for a PC game), write what the bug is and steps to reproduce. Though from my experience, most testers don't have to go to that much trouble.

I don't know of any Brisbane developers that offer internships, traineeships, or apprenticeships. You could try posting over at the IGDA Brisbane forum to see if anyone has an answer, but your best bet is to call around and see. Let us know if you find anything!



Oh, Auran explicitly states that they don't offer those services (details below) so strike them off the list.



Auran:

Work Experience / Internship / Traineeship / Work Placement

We do not have any work experience, internship, traineeship or work placement programs available at present.

Thanks heaps for that man. I'll definitely keep you guys posted.

If we'd be talking in Unreal Engine 3 terms, a great-looking character will be made of around 5000 triangles, normal mapped, with both texture and normal maps of resolution at about 2048x2048.

They say that they first create a high-res model, between 1 and 5 million triangles, and then use a tool that reduces the triangle count to around 5000, and turns the original detail into normal maps. (the visual difference is quite small, and its pretty obvious which of the version can be rendered in real time, and which cannot...)

Those kind of tools should be available as plugins around the web. You could google for them.

Most stuff is normal mapped in modern games, and they are even starting to move to parallax mapping...raicuandi2007-07-18 10:56:28

Its great to have a grand skill set but perhaps have a particular focus of what you want will be easier ie. character or environment modeling, texture artist or animation etc. Some positions will allow you to do everything you have, some may just get you to do one. Research the companies and find out how they are set up and what they are like to work for. Find out what they are working on. Theres very few companies in australia that are working on next gen titles, so it may be awhile before you get to show off your normal mapping skills :)

Once you focus on what you really want then point your portfolio in that direction.

P

A strong portfolio can overcome a lack of a degree. The industry is still young enough that a degree isn't a necessity, as long as you can demonstrate the skills.

Not to say getting a degree is a waste of time, and you'll always find people swaying either way on the issue (especially should you ever want to career switch), though that wasn't your question. @:-)

Thanks for your reply!

Hi Kowai,

Sorry for the late response. Most studios that I'm aware of do not offer part-time work or work experience. However, you can get lucky - I managed to get an internship with Auran in Brisbane. But I don't know of any companies in Melbourne that offer anything similar.

You should check out your local IGDA chapter though - it's an opportunity to talk to people in the industry and start networking.

And if you're not too busy, you could always join a mod/indie dev team to get some experience.

Good luck!

Smart or business casual are fine, although I suppose it depends on the position, the company, and what you feel most comfortable wearing. I wore a polo shirt and khaki pants to my interview. The interviewers will probably be wearing their day-to-day casual clothes.nexx2007-01-18 09:10:06

I agree with Nexx that Smart or business casual is fine.

I was talking to an editor of Marvel comics once and he said that he will not give anyone a job dressed in casual clothes; he believes that your clothing reflects your attitude.
Wether you agree with him or not is irrelivant, he does the hiring.

that sounds like a very American Attitiude - dress for success! Thankfully in Australia (Adelaide at least) we generally aren't so superficial and have the ability to judge people by other less obvious traits than their attire.

I swing between semismart-casual to neatish-business (never bothered with a tie) for interviews and have never felt it affected my chances. I make the call on how to dress depending on the position, and try to dress for that. ie if the position involves contact with corporate clients neat-business attire (suit pants, long sleave shirt, shiny shoes) and grooming is required. If the position if formatting photos in a sweatshop styled backroom jeans and 5 O'clock shadow is more appropriate.

err on the side of over dressing a little rather than under dress though.

I want to see the personality in an interview and if the person across from me is wearing a monkey suit which they feel uncomfortable in thats not really going to help bring out who they are.

Saying that though shoes, deodorant and clothing without stains and holes are a good idea. :P

Also if someone is comfortable they tend to tell the truth easier as they don't feel that everything they say is being critiqued, even though it generally is. lol.

Smart casual should be fine for our industry if you are applying for grunt duty, step it up for Lead roles and above and don't read into what American's business says you need. :P

Yeah I agree, business suits and ties are a no no in my opinion, and achieve the opposite effect. Yeah it depends on the position, but I couldn't imagine a suit ever being required even for a management role.

When people say casual I think of yobbo wear, shorts, tshirt and thongs, and no I wouldn't wear that, thats disrespectful. I even think that's what the marvel guy was talking about as well. However in Aus, that would be pretty much the extent of the limits I think. When I went for my last interview I wore more stuff set for a bar, my Lee jeans, tarocash black short sleeve shirt, and some white shoes I got from Basement. My piercing was left in, tatts were showing, but it was respectful, it showed that I had thought of taking the time for this interview, and seriously, who'd want to see a Designer in a suit? How creative could they be?

Whenever I've interviewed someone in full business get up, all it's ever made me think was "I wonder what he dresses like for real?" and it had no influence on my opinion at all. Admittedly the bogun thing didn't get to me either, though I'd never wear shorts to an interview myself.

Welcome.

Firstly, games developers, well the intelligent ones, are actively seeking talented female employees in all fields to help diversify the creative pool a bit so if you have the talent, your gender if anything is a help to you..not a hindrance.

Secondly, all talent is derived from passion. When you look at the best people in their fields you will find that they are the best because they love what they do. They continue to strive to better themselves and their work constantly grows and improves daily. They do it not for the paycheck but for the love. People who aren?t passionate will produce mediocrity to get by and we certainly don?t need anymore mediocre games out there do we :p.

So I'd try and work out what really drives and excites you and then look at fields in the industry that compliment that.

Thirdly, what state / town do you live in. There are numerous industry chapters set up such as the IGDA and others where you could go and meet with developers and pick their brain. Get the answers you need to help find out where you want to start your path.

Well I've been on a good wage but passionless so I couldn't really give a stuff about the former (although being able to pay my rent would be good).

I've been interested in IT all my life but had garnered the impression that gaming was all code, code and more boring code. Things changed last year when I attended a convention and I was...well, enlightened.

One thing I did notice that I really glommed onto was creating for PDA (..and now iPhone! Have you seen that thing?) platforms. But I've been working on a script for a game with a view to eventually developing that so....my career path's pretty much an open book at the moment.

I presently reside in Brisbane and would be very keen to find out about the groups you mention.

Thanks for your prompt reply. Ocea2007-01-16 01:18:13

Check out the IGDA Brisbane chapter. They have regular meetups. There's some photos from their meet last weekend on their forums, quite a few people from the local industry attend, ands girls too! :)

http://www.igda.org/Forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=196

The more girls in the industry, the more work gets done, because the geeks get too scared to look anywhere but their screens. Also the less bad jokes around the office, and toilet jokes in games too, so cool.

Mdobele is right, there is a bit of a push going at the moment for more women so you're coming at a good time. Once that ratio levels out I'm personally hoping the push will stop because then it borders on reverse sexism though that wont be for a while yet.

The passion that Mdobele mentioned as well is the primary key, and that's what you'll need. If you find out from someone that you're crap, then find out why, see if you agree, say no more and work on bettering it. The last thing you want is to get a job because you're a woman, there's no confidence to be found in that, you want to know you got it because you're damn good at what you do.

[Before I go on my babbling I?ll let you know that ONE place in Melbourne do allow internships. That being Red Tribe: Click here   other then that nothing sorry.]

G?day mate. Nice to see you?re putting yourself out there, asking questions and such. That?s a key element of job acquisition in itself for all jobs. Getting yourself known.

I .. basically learned through my own mistakes and experiences to be honest. I finished high school last year with a crap VCE score and just pretty much focused a year of my time at home self-teaching around half of what I needed to know.

Self-teaching in more detail means getting books and internet tutorials and slugging yourself through all the knowledge and know how to get to junior standards and spec. But if you?re in your 4th year of a course that has made you quite a good 3D artist [I assume so.] Then ignore the self-teaching component I just talked about.

What you need to do mate above all else is learn and accept people?s critiques. This means applying your cover letter, resume and best work examples to every studio in Australia with a small demo of your work and hoping you get a reply based on it.

You?ll hopefully get a few interviews from that. Now the following is important to know. Please don?t believe that I got the job at blue tongue as my first interview. That?s lies and slander. Blue Tongue was interviewing no 7 of 8.

Through this year Australia wide I have:

Applied to mostly every company in the country. Sometimes twice over, [blue tongue included] I would say all up about 40-50 applications.

Out of those 40-50 around 5-7 gave any sort of reply. This is standard for aussie games industries so don?t feel like your sh*t when no one replies. Everyone gets this.

And I have gone to as I said 8 interviews in total.

Ok so the depressing statistics aside mate the one thing I did do is that when I didn?t get a job I would ring and e-mail ask why not and asked what I could do to improve myself. And basically through that and listening to what they wanted I made a Cover letter, Resume, Printed and Organised design Documents and Screenshots of work and took all that in and casually talked them through what I could TRUTHFULLY offer them and my skills. And it just so happened that those skills are what they need for this project I?m working on.

Be friendly and approachable in an interview, which helps as well.

With next gen on our tails most studios will be happy to hire a 3D artist if they are good enough to fill the position. While there are a lot of people applying to the industry most of them simply don?t have the polished skills. But in saying that I would say I?m both the youngest and most unprofessional at blue tongue. For all purposes don?t consider me a rule of thumb. I did things very differently then most and still do today.

Cheers.
Caroo2006-12-07 04:49:56

"quite a good 3d artist" well i only started doing 3d in the last two semesters, im in a very broad course where i can go into alot of things, but thanks for the vote of confidence.

So what does a junior level designer do?
i know that you only started a few months ago, but have they got you do do anything major yet (do they use MAYA or MAX)?
whats the atomshpere like working there?

Thank for the info, i really appreciate it.

Well if you have a broad range of media skills yet none of them are upto an industry acceptable standard i would suggest that intership for red tribe. You might not fall perfectly in their case sensario but in your e-mail breifly state what your doing and what you can do and where you want to be in the next few years.

A junior level designers job varies from studio to studio but for blue tounge it's a solid mixture of computer based work and written/practiced design. I can't get into huge detail at the moment but i'm quite satisfied with what i'm doing. I've been at blue tounge about a month now.

And they currently use Max but they're slowly changing to Maya.

The atomshpere is awesome. Really nice blokes and casual yet professional at the same time. They know what there doing.

[QUOTE=Xinnerz]im in a very broad course where i can go into alot of things[/QUOTE]
3D art is a wide area, do you have a favourite area, or one you're most proficient in? What's currently in your portfolio?
[QUOTE=Xinnerz]
ive done my folio and resume and im starting to write up some cover letters is there anything else that could give me an edge?[/QUOTE]
Print it, bind it, stick it in an envolope and mail it out. Get your work sitting on people's desks.nexx2006-12-14 04:04:17

wow, 3d art is a wide area. so im coming from a broad multimedia course to a broad area in 3d art. i think might have to work a bit more on 3d before i start applying.

So do you work at Krome Studios Melbourne, or other?

Ive contacted both Blue Tongue and Krome and both of them don't take university students, looks like im heading towards regular multimedia jobs.

thanks for the info cheers.

Congrats on Medieval 2: Total War, that really is a great game!

Not sure if I can offer any decent advice, but chin up and keep at it!

Thanks Souri, a positive comment really helps when your down.

I am regularly mystified by the lack of apparent pattern regarding games companies showing, and not showing, interest in my applications. So you are not alone with your confusion.

Keep reviewing/refining your cover letter and resume. make sure they are short, sharp and show you off in a good light. You don't get alot of time to impress. I noted that a company spend a total of 50 seconds visiting my online portfolio and looked at under a quater of my samples. So you don't have much time to impress. If you are still able to contact senior and/or management types from your Medieval job it might be worth seeing if they would be willing to review your letter and resume. This contact might also result in job leads if they know of anything suitable (cool kids get jobs through networking leaving the rest of us mugs to duke it out for advertised positions).

apart from that do like Souri said - chin up and keep at it

JohnN, I appreciate the helpful advice, it really helps in low times such as this, I am keeping in contact with one of my managers so ill ask for them to perhaps assess my resume etc.

If I was you I'd be heading over to the Game Connect conference this weekend and mix it up. Personal exposure to companies is far better than a letter.

http://www.gameconnectap.com/
groovyone2006-11-29 13:15:04

groovyone, i would goto the 'Game Connect Conference' but im unemployed and cant afford it, or maybe i looked in the wrong spot on the website.
tedledz2006-11-29 19:34:47

Yeah I know what it can be like being outside of the industry trying to get in. When you've a low level of experience (a year or less), a lot of it has to do with getting in the right persons face (or email) at the right time.

If it makes you feel any better, I do think it's strange that you haven't been able to find QA work with your experience. Most people getting into QA have no experience. It is entirely possible there isn't any QA work out there at the moment.

My advice is to keep sending your resume to all the games companies you can find and follow up with phonecalls, ask for their QA manager and find out what the situation is. I think you're more likely to succeed with developers in your area, I haven't heard of anyone hiring a QA person from overseas or interstate unless they were REALLY senior (even then I haven't heard of it).

Uhh I'll have to correct you there Souri, Med2 was the BEST game. I'm STILL playing that bastard, and I cant wait till the Kingdoms expansion comes out.

Reasons for not replying to a resume include lack of experience sure, but they also include:

*No available positions
*Position already being filled
*Company finds position may not be as critical as they thought
*Resume just doesn't get seen
*Company miscalculated funds and realise they cant afford it (it does happen)
*Company doesn't follow up on their own job advertisement
*Company finds some poor inhouse bastard to work that job on top of their own
*Company waiting till end of project to expand QA dept
*Company avoids looking at resumes outside of local area to avoid relocation cost

Thats a few ideas off the top of my head and none of them have anything to do with your skills or exp so don't lose confidence. What's your resume like? does it stand out from the other 50 that employer will also be looking at? Maybe expand out a bit, show skills and willingness for other roles as well. Try to not make your skills TOO vague but the more departments the resume passes through, the more eyes see it, the more people that say "Hey this guy worked on Total War".

Hey Thanks everyone,
for the positive feedback, well currently im working in QA at THQ it's really good working here so many great people I love my job.

Thanks again,

tedledz2007-04-25 06:57:27

Persistance is the key - Game developers get a lot of crappy resumes/portfolios, but they also receive some good ones but aren't always in a position to act on them straight away.

However I've employed candidates with good resumes simply because they were persistant... try to touch base with some of your contacts on a regular basis.

Good luck mate, and keep at it :)

Honestly mate. If you have that much experience and skill all you really need to do is send your resume off to all the big Melbourne companies and see who bites and takes interest. Also if you're highly skilled you'll have the opportunity to ask the extra bits and pieces like bonuses and such.

The notion I've gotten form Melbourne is that if you have provable skill finding a place wont be imposable.

http://www.sumea.com.au/sdevelopers.asp - every major studio is listed here. Even if a studios jobs section doesn?t have the position you're looking for posted. Send your resume anyway. Just make sure to have the words "Experienced Developer" in your mail title. That should save you from the Auto-delete button.

Anyway mate. Take a look around and remember to look at all the options. Cheers.

Caroo.

First off awright, any reason why you've chosen Melbourne as your relocation destination? ...I think there's just as much (if not more) going on in Brisbane nowdays as in Melbourne, so it might be a good idea to keep your options open if you have a choice.

I used to work for Torus, although it was quite a few years ago. I think you should do as much research as possible before applying to any game company, look for long term stability, published titles etc.

As for which 3D app is primarily used by any game studio, you've worked in the industry long enough to realise that one is neither better or worse than another and there's always a reason behind choices... things change and evolve constantly so it's up to you to adapt.

One thing you probably won't get (from a public forum such as this), is negative comments about any specific game studio here in Australia, at least from anyone who is currently working within the industry... it isn't appropriate.

On the other hand, I'm sure you're aware that you'll find good and bad points in just about any studio you work at... what's great for one person might not be so great for another.

If you are specifically looking for next-gen console work, then you need to target companies who have a previous track record in next-gen development.

Good luck :)

Having been born and raised in Melbourne I reckon it's a great place to live and work. Contrary to popular belief, the Melbourne games industry employs more people than any other state (http://www.sumea.com.au/snews.asp?news=2483) and, correct me if i'm wrong, is the home of Australian game development.

I've talked to people who aren't too crazy about Torus, but I personally found it to be a good place to work both as a tester and a programmer, I've met some really great people at Torus, and that goes a long way towards making a great place to work. Also the location away from the city means you can avoid the city commute and rent/buy a nicer place closer to work. It's located in a kind of business park, so the local shops are about a 15 minute walk or a 5 min drive, and parking generally isn't a problem. Last time I worked there (earlier this year) you got an hour for lunch and it was a 37.5 hour week, and I hear now they have 2 table tennis tables and a pool table, plus a few old arcade machines and a pinball machine, and when I was there earlier this year there was a lan game or 2 going on at lunchtime. As for the type of work they're doing, I'd advise you call Torus and ask to speak to someone about it.

As for Maya, every game company I've worked for in the last 2 years has used it as the predominant 3D development package, though I find that many artists say they prefer Max. If I was getting into 3D modelling I'd probably get a copy of Maya over Max.

I'm currently working at Tantalus and finding it an enjoyable place to work so far, I'm still finding my feet but the people there have been really great and it was the best induction experience I've ever had. And the free beer and games on Fridays at 5 is a real bonus! I must say I do miss the table tennis though. Previously I was at Codemasters, which wasn't as good, mostly to do with its location (no table tennis there either).

It's nice being in the city (Melbourne's a beautiful city) because you have access to so much more, but it usually works out being more expensive and you'll generally be spending more time travelling. It just depends on what kind of lifestyle you like. Nothing beats being able to walk to work though.

Anyway that's MY opinion. Take it as you will.

Andrew =0)

here? http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3338

there are a few of us out there...

Hi all,

I'm a female software engineer working in the process control industry. I'm currently looking at getting into game development and am particularly interested in working on game engines. My main concern at the moment is that most of the advertised positions ask for a minimum amount of experience in the field. Is there much volunteer work available to get some experience in the industry?

Hey,
I'm not sure where you are located... but Pandemic in Brisbane is hiring jnr programmers at the moment. They have told me in the past that they are really keen to get some females on board, so you should definately go for it!

If you aren't in Brissy, I suggest you try for advertised jobs anyway, you never know...

Good Luck,
Miranda

Hi Miranda,

I'm based in Sydney, unfortunately the game industry is a little quiet in NSW :(

I've worked with ONE female per game studio - two in total. They are usually a notch above the male programmers - probably had to endure lack of support to stay in the business. Ah.. what doesn't kill ya, makes you stronger.

If you want to get into games field, the best bet would be to get some kind of training. You could just work hard and develop a folio by yourself but you have to keep yourself motivated. Most training institutes will help you develop a folio you could use to try and get work.

Check out what learning institutes there are about you can apply for Computer graphcs college, Academy of Interactive Entertainment, Holmesglen Tafe, etc etc.

If your after some job placement then go to Centrelink and see if there are traineeship positions that you could apply for. There are possibly a good deal out there could...well suck.

ok....first of all what would i search for on the centrelink site?? im not into the programming part of it all....just purely modeling and animation....which could still work in the games field but yeah....thanks!

In every role I've had, in every interview I've been involved in (both interviewer and interviewee), and every potential employee or colleague I've been involved in assessing, the order of priority is always the same.



Personality/work ethic > Ability > experiance.



Age doesn't come into it unless it directly affects those things. For example it's expected that a 9 year old isn't going to posess a personality to mesh with the rest of the team, nor would they have the ability to fulfill a demanding role, let alone having previous experiance to bring along knowledge from past roles.



So, to put it bluntly, your age is not the issue, your abilities and life experiances are. Doing a comic and a spinning logo does not make you employable - Having a comprehensive portfolio proving your ability to fulfill job requirements does. Look at job posts and ask yourself can you fulfill those tasks, and can you SHOW you can fulfill them with a portfolio to back it up.

thanks for the reply :D ehehe, ohh...coolios, good to know that agea int everything! I prob should have said that those two things were my only "expiereince" "in the industry" but i am not a n00b at 3D/2D...lol..my folio is not too shabby and yeah, my knowledge is quite...well...i am very knowledgable about the software which i use and yeha, lol...lalalla

I suggest you also don?t write any cover letters in your "cool leet speak" It wouldn?t come across as very professional.

if you have some knowledge (or can quickly learn up) with some/all of these programs: MS Word, Powerpoint, Pagemaker, Indesign, Xpress, Publisher. You might have a chance of nabbing some DTP (desktop publishing) work... maybe. DTP is sort of the bridge between word processing and 2d graphic design. Most of the work would be mind numbing, but you might luck out and get a nice newsletter or digital persentation here and there.

These types of jobs don't lead to the computer game industy in any way, shape, or form though (just incase that is you longer term plan)

well, ud have to be pretty stupid to write up a cv like that, and i for one and am not. I am a very skilled person with very good marks. The only reason i write like that in these sort of forums is beacause it is much quiker and everyone seems to understand eh? so BLEH! and John, ill keep that in mind :DM5752006-10-13 02:48:06

If I were you I'd put in a resume for a job as a game tester then work your way towards an art position. From there you can talk to artists face to face, and get a feel for what the company requires of an artist and develop your portfolio to match.

Otherwise, take a game and make a mod, there are plenty of options out there. If you want to go straight in as an artist you'll need to be able to show something the company is interested in and convince them you're dedicated enough to do a good job 100% of the time.

Oh and, risking being flamed, I'd drop the leet speak as a general rule, unless you're talking in MSN or via SMS. It doesn't make you sound very intelligent, regardless of your good marks. Kinda makes you sound like a net hill billy.

no more lol's , cummons and dis's...what is this world comming too?! Okay, so I'll try and be propper. When ever I read about game testing they say things like "expierence needed with this program" and certain things which I have no idea about, like debugging. I know that in terms of Flash or VB or something, but I have never made a game using C++ or anything, and like I said, I don't plan to. So if I could get into game testing, that'd be great, but yeah. Also, wouldn't you have to be a pretty good gamer for that? I mean, I play games, except I usualy muck around, which doesn't help my skill level rise :D

Becoming a tester is one of the easiest ways into the indsutry. It may not be the best way into the other areas of game development, but at least it would give you some insight into the process of how a game is created and the professionalism that is required.

You don't need to be a great gamer to be a good tester, or know anything about debugging. You do have to be patient, methodical, conscientious, and write well. It helps to have a passion for games, because it can be a very demoralising job. However, a good tester is worth their weight in gold.

Testing is good work, if you can get it, and one of the best avenues into the industry. It is mostly accepted that someone starting as a tester is doing it to move into a development position, and it's quite accepted to mention this in your interview, but bear in mind that someone else who says 'I only ever want to be a tester', will probably be picked over you.

Anyone that plays games has enough experience to be a tester, (and you don't even need that) but not everyone will make a good tester, or get through the interview successfully. One of the big mistakes, would-be testers say is "I'd love to be a tester because I would get to play games all day" - WRONG! You TEST games, you go through the one game over and over and over and over, and did i mention... over. A good tester has good verbal and written communication skills, and has a mature, logical and structured approach to finding bugs in a game.

If you want to get in as a tester send your resume to every games company you'd be comfortable travelling to, with a cover letter stating how much you LOVE games, possibly adding what your favorite genre is, and game, what you're playing now, why you're playing it, what they could improve, and what you think testing a game involves - finding bugs, documenting bugs, varifying fixes, being very throrough, being the guardian of quality, fighting mediocrity.

You might not get in straight away, but don't be discouraged, keep bugging every company you can with resumes (unless they tell you to stop). And follow up with phonecalls, ask if you can talk to the manager of the testing department about a position, convince them you'd be a great tester. If you're dead keen, and you can show this, then you should be successful.

I don't want to discourage you, but your age might initially deter some companies, but if you can convey that you're going to approach the job with a mature and hard-working attitude then you might just get through.

Best of luck!

lol..."and write well"...well I am quite a good writer, just a moderatley poor speller. I'll see what I can do, thanks your advice!

There was some really great advice there - thanks Chameleon.

I can personally say that it has aided me in some more in-depth ideas. I'm currently looking to get a foot in the door in the industry, and while my dream is to get into writing/design etc, and I'd love to get straight into level design, I'm realistic enough to understand that an entry level QA position is far more attainable.

I've done a lot of unofficial modification work with strong community backings and run and administrate a popular MUSH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSH), which I'm hoping will demonstrate an appropriate amount of writing/design ability. I'm currently finishing up my Portfolio, and you have given me some excellent starting ideas for some things to add into my cover-letter.

Because let's face it.. Darkstar One could use a lot of gameplay variety, and Pirates: Caribbean Tales is so buggy it almost seems unlikely they even had a QA team. ;)

Thank you for the words of advice.

As a fellow designer that's been at this job obtainment thing for almost a year now. I believe I can give some advice.

Promote your work as much as you can and often. Over the months and months that you post your work [like say in the design section of sumea *hint hint*] People will see how quickly you are improving. And more so just how passionate you are about getting a place in this industry.

The placements are competitive though. And because you're classed as a junior at best companies have even more doubts about you.

My advice. Through my experiences with trying to get jobs and going to a few unsuccessful interviews is this:

As a junior in any position. You must convince these studios that you are totally capable of handling the job. To this end; when you go for an interview. Your mission will be to leave with the studio having as little doubts about you and your skills. Even if they are under pair.

Because for these studios.. Under average skill is far more appealing then skills not shown.

Also...truely..where ever you are be prepared for unfair outcomes. I've gone to a QA interview and was told sincerely that I did quite well for the interview. It's 2 months on now and still no word. But I?m currently chasing a higher up position so if I wasn't. I would be ringing up the QA manager of that studio and ask politely why I didn't get the job.

That brings us to another point. If you go for an interview but don't get the job [and chances are this WILL happen 1-4 times.] Be sure to RING up the studio. Get hold of those who interviewed you and POLITELY ask what you need improvement on. Some times you'll get helpful advice. other times..well..this industry is a little dodgy when it comes to employment.

The main point. Don't give in and keep trying. This industry is very very hard to get into. If you live in Brisbane you'll have a slightly easer time then if your in anywhere else. Melbourne from my experience only takes the best of the best of the best juniors for any position.

So keep at it mates. Wether you start in QA or Level Design. Find out what you need to learn and simply learn it.

My advice would be to a) look into games testing, and b) experiment with 3D, art, animation, mods, mapping...or whatever it is you wish to get into (or try them all and you'll find a favourite). 16yrs is young, you could easily spare a few years gaining experience (maybe even a degree) and putting together a solid portfolio. Research, plan and set some long term goals.nexx2006-10-18 09:08:19

Okay, so if I have'nt already mentioned (I haven't checked here for a while because AS MUCH AS I WANT IT TO IT DOES NOT SEND EMAIL NOTIFACATIONS :@ )I have had quite a bit of expierence and summed up, know what I'm doing. And yes, I have an A3 display book which is filled with my work (all 40 pages) and not one person who has looked at it has said anything negative - only wow's! and oooOOOoo's- so im pretty dandy there. I am also doing a year ahead in Media and skipping Units 1+2 so I will next year I will concentrate on making a short animation and it will be school work! yay! Does anyone know of any GOOD game studios in melbourne? The only one i know of is Atari...but i heard that they've had issues for the past little while and i mean, their website still says "Transformers:Relase date 2004" or whatever...so yeah. now i have to use this emotion night!

I think Sumea has a section with, as far as I know, a more or less complete list of Victorian developers that you could check out... a second list here:
http://www.mmv.vic.gov.au/CompaniesinVictoria

As for 'good' companies, check their sites to see if they have recent commercially successful games, but maybe more importantly if you like their games you should add them to the list of companies to approach.

There are plenty of GOOD games companies in Melbourne. The ones that instantly spring to my mind are IR Gurus, BlueTongue, Tantalus and Torus. But if you're serious you'd check the developer section of sumea and visit every developer website and find out for yourself.

Yeah don't worry about the age thing, in fact don't include it on your resume. One of my closest friends is still only in his early twenties and pretty much holds total dominance over his field in the local industry. In fact I'm having trouble thinking of an Aus company which he has not worked with in some way, and he'd be only about 5 years older than you. He started around your age in fact, so yeah, no danger man, go for it.

Hey Voxel,

Brisbane is probablly your best chance at having alot of game development companies in the same place. We have five of the largest game companies in Australia (Pandemic Studios, THQ, Creative Assembly, Auran and Krome) all within a few kilometres of each other. Plus, the weather, and the cost of living, is much better in Brisbane than Melbourne or Sydney!

Cheers

Thanks Ryan, the pleasure was all mine, it is good to see so much
talent out there.

My clients are always looking for people like you and am pleased to see you got a really good break. Congratulations!! You will be joined by 2 other people that I helped get jobs at Krome shortly =)

Keep in touch.

Roy

quote:Originally posted by LOOM

Roy hooked me up with a Prop & Texture artist position at...
Krome Studios!
I am now working on a Hellboy game for nextgen consoles :)
Just Wanted to Say thanks to Roy from Interpro, and inform others about the company.
http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1595

Cheers Roy

When you say you 'redesign his companys logo in 3D' I assume that the logo itself hasn't been redesigned- ie you have created a 3d interpretation of their 2d logo? in this case I suspect you have no, or little, ownership of IP, and technically may have encroached on another designers IP by using the 2d logo as a base for your redesign (I'm no lawyer, and copyright laws regarding design IP can be complicated so I could be wrong).

As for the source files, my understanding is (and I might remind you that I am no Lawyer) they are your property, and unless specified during the initial projects brief, a distinctly seperate piece of property to files delivered as part of you project, and also to copyright of the design! So the company could pay you to redo their logo for a website, then pay you for ownership of the copyright(if it exists and belongs to you...can be a very tricky gray area), allowing them to use that logo in any way they wish and then they have to pay you again for the working files! ...so whatever you end up charging, it is proabably worth breaking the costs down to indicate that all of these components are being purchaced - this will help justify to the client what you are charging.

Don't really know what 3d models are worth so I will let someone else offer suggestions on the pricing.

As with anything when selling IP to someone and relinquishing copyright. You need to figure out
1. Where is the company going
2. What are they going to do with the source files
3. What impact is that on loss of future work for you based on that IP.
4. What size is the company (financially) - ie how much can they afford
5. How desperately do they want it (can be indication of it's intended use).

had assumed mf when i saw that add, but i have no clue.

Thanks for trying - and yeah i forgot about micro

It looks like Team Bondi to me. From Team Bondi's 'Jobs' page ( http://www.teambondi.com/jobs/ ):

Art Jobs
Technical Animator 17.01.06
3d Animators/Character Modelers 22.11.05

Programming Jobs
Senior Gameplay Programmer 11.01.06
A.I. Programmers 22.11.05
Menu Programmer 22.11.05
Gameplay Programmer 22.11.05
Tools Programmer 22.11.05
Research Programmers 22.11.05

I.T. Jobs
I.T. Manager/Systems Administrator 22.11.05

Have you tried www.gamasutra.com and www.gamedev.net ?

Also you can try http://www.jobsearch.com.au/ - there's links to the major job boards on there like Career One. If you're not getting much bites here then I am not sure since most game developers do read this board.

Quite a lot of people (in my own experience) are not interested in the USA unless there's something really special being offered OR they want to travel.

Hansoft's "Project Manager" has been highly recommended to me, though I've yet to trial it fully.

http://www.hansoft.se

This sounds like the kind of thing you're looking for.

Cheers,

Scott.

As great as any structured and well executed project management system/methodology is, never underestimate or under-value temporary and volatile methods either since development is always in flux -- single most successful management policy I've seen is literally a "live" whiteboard, sticky notes, and actually listening to peoples estimates of how long an individual task will take for them. The amount of times I've seen a schedule made of the formula "amount of time divided by number of tasks" is plain scary.

For our small team of <10 people on this project simple Excel spreadsheets split into milestones seems to work best for tracking tasks and hours. For me they are easy to look over each day and track any fluctuations without draining alot of my or my teams time.

They are simple for the team to use as well and they are able to update and change estimates as they go.

I tried a few times to use Microsoft Project but it was just overkill for me and the team found it too difficult to use.

In the end you just gotta go with what works best for you and your team.

J.I Styles "amount of time divided by number of tasks"
[:D]

Management in an Aus studio?? What are you, insane!!

Maybe, but that was a year ago, so I can't remember

Styles-----------
"single most successful management policy I've seen is literally a "live" whiteboard, sticky notes, and actually listening to peoples estimates of how long an individual task will take for them"
------------------

Actually that's pretty much the "Agile" method we use, with user stories and task cards, and yeah so far that seems to be pretty kick ass. Very concise, very dynamic, allows for input from all involved, and provided an overall scope on the project is maintained so all the little parts slot in where and how they're supposed to, it's a Designer's heaven.

Agile Software Development can be quite good. After working on bloated, ass backwards projects, it's great to get back to the fundamentals.

I've enjoyed working with ScrumSprint, and would recommend these for teams of around 8 or less. There's something to be said for letting the team decide what they can achieve in a given time, and then letting them knock the work over in any way they choose within that given time. A methodology built around the fact that your requirements are subject to constant change... that sounds like games to me.

If you're a self-important manager, it can seem a bit daunting at first however as the team takes personal accountability for their work, solve their own problems, and generally don't need you to bother them. Though you may feel a bit more hands off, when you realise that all of these are good things, life is peachy keen.

The only thing that bugs me is, at the beginning of a new sprint I need to sit down and write out a wall's worth of task cards. My hand gets sore. To forfeit the "wall of destiny" for electronic means though would be a big mistake.

Time for my first coffee of the day so I'm not bleary eyed in our upcoming scrum. I recommend these scrum meetings... "what did you do yesterday, what will you do today, what are your impediments?" Gets those cogs turning in everyone's heads, and you're a lot less likely to have an "I told you so" moment because issues are frequently reported, and can't be neglected.

Peace out.

Scott.