Job and Work Experience

I'm not sure if you'd call it spam, but it does seem to give an indication of a desperate person with a "I'll just try and grab everyone" approach.

I do also think that it is spam, the guy didn't read the content of peoples looking for work posts, he just posted the same "are you interested" line, cut and pasted into each thread. Ignoring that that it states on the thread title do not reply to posts.

It seems a bit wrong. He is being lazy and rather then looking at the sites of those who have posted in the looking for work section, and realising that most of us have the type of work we are after and our resumes posted there and then contacting us privately if the work was what we wanted. He instead floods the forum with generic repetition.
All I can say is that if you are a company using this recument agency you might want to look for a different one.

Pantmonger

I've seen recruitment agencies do much worse on other websites (especially those in the IT field). In some cases, websites have had to change how they approach advertising jobs/job seekers as a result. Hopefully it won't get to that stage here.

I'd say that you'd have to try and get in through the testing area, so ask around for QA positions. I'm sure that most game companies would not hire a person that doesn't have QA experience for a producer position.

quote:Originally posted by Daemin

I'd say that you'd have to try and get in through the testing area, so ask around for QA positions. I'm sure that most game companies would not hire a person that doesn't have QA experience for a producer position.

Agreed, seems to be the best route to take.

Thanks for the tips!

Thanks alot Souri [:I]
I'm really glad to finally be getting my hands dirty!
Also looking forward to furthering my skills, there is some massively talent guys/gals here to learn from.

w00t!! Just got home from a lunch with Kromeans. Hopefully my next you'll be in on the Yum Cha goodness @:-D

Remember I know where you live and with you out of the way that would be one more position open for people like me.

:P

Pantmonger

congrats mate! you deserve it!

quote:Getting sick of recruitment agencies looking down the noses, when I tell them I want to continue in videogames.

Because thats a fun and fulfilling career, being..a...recruitment..officer...he..hehe...hahahaha
Have you tried applying directly to Aussie developers?

Probably you're best bet if you want to work in the marketing end is to apply to the australian distribution arms of various overseas publishers. I don't think you'd have much luck with getting a marketing job with aussie *developers*, they don't have a lot of need for such people (the publishers take care of marketing). There aren't really any australian publishers either. So yeah, i'd suggest trying to get in contact with the australian sony/microsoft/infogrames etc. type people.
CYer, Blitz

Publishers I mean. Thanks for correcting me blitz.

Hi agwa,

I have a friend in the same situation as you and they have not had any luck here.

Actually, she used to work for Infogrames UK as well .. maybe you might know each other. Her name is Liz.

well I work for Irrational games. started about 8-10 weeks ago i think.

and

Yes
Yes
No (yes maybe sometimes at the end of a dead line)

No replies so far, so I'd better chip in.

Yes, there is coding and animation/level design and if you've played a few videogames in your time then you'll notice there's a bit more as well.

There are lots of general and specific jobs in the industry - art, music, sound fx, coding, animation, design, testing, administration, marketing. And each of these have their own subset ie: Art departments might consist of a concept artist, 3d modellers, animators, texture artists etc... and depending on the size of the company they might be broken into different areas like enemy artists, background artists, boss artists, character artists. But that's only at the really big ones - most Aussie companies are smaller in comparison to their overseas counterparts so often they expect you to be good at 2 or more categories - ie modelling and texturing...

Basically there's too much stuff to go into - we don't really have an idea of how much knowledge you have or where to start. So try these links and read everything you can on their sites that interest you:

www.gamasutra.com
www.gamedev.com

If you wanna know about game companies in Aussie click on the sumea link at the top of the page that says 'Developers'. Then go through all their sites at your leisure.

You sound unsure of what you want to do with yourself - but I would recommend one of the courses in Australia that can teach a bit about this sort of stuff.

PS - if you wanna work in games, you'd probably have to do more than just 'like' videogames. Every user on this site here - eat, lives and breathes them!

Just be careful that this is what you want to do, if you are slightly unsure I would suggest getting a University degree in the relevant field, so if you want to do programming get a Computer Science Degree, or if you like art get a Multimedia or other Arts degree. I say this because if you go and get training (at a TAFE, QUATAM (sp?), or the AIE) and you don't really like the industry then you would have wasted at least a year doing very specific training, whereas if you went and did a University degree (granted it's longer) you would have the expertise to go into another similar field. Also during University you could really find out the other areas that you might want to do, rather than Games.

Although the best of luck to you regardless to what you do.

Some of us sleep/dream games too. ;)

cre: You aren't going to get anywhere unless you put in alot of hard work, especially since you are just starting. Do what you enjoy the most, and become the best at it as you can be :)

Ok thanks for the reply guys, i'll start some heavy reading of those sites mentioned when i get back from the doctor.

game testers actually get payed !?!

quote:Originally posted by JonathanKerr
PS - if you wanna work in games, you'd probably have to do more than just 'like' videogames. Every user on this site here - eat, lives and breathes them!

when i say like i mean... wake up around 1pm play games till about 3am repeat process five days a week, get pist on friday/saturday.

bah! whos sleeps. Thats not love.

Seriously.

1. Download Gmax or get a copy of Maya/Softimage learning edition modelling packages. model organic beings, not guns, not cars, not spaceships, not robots, organic has the hardest learning curve and you want to get used too (and enjoy)challenges in this biz, right guys. [P]
2. Get a map editor, Unreal tournement 2003 etc. Make a level or 100.
3. Try the lot too, illustrate, animate, model and texture, find which you have natural talent at and refine, refine refine. If you can do all your way more employable.
4. Check out tutorial and forum sites, Sumea, polycount.com, cgtalk.com etc.
5. Study if you have the cash, be it Tafe, Uni, AIE or QANTM.
6. Get use to rejection.
7. Believe in your ability, but be honest, do you have what it takes compared to others, find a really, really good industry idol/hero/god and try better them.
8. Make contacts.
9. Get use to rejection.
10. Ignore the rejection because you rock!!! [:P]

Hope that helps and good luck.

Malus.

what i usually say to anyone thats looking at being a coder is:
do u like maths, physics, science, maths, and maths.
because thats about all i ever do, coding is alot of maths
making the game work and all the physics...
theres not a second in the day im not thinking about code, some times even when i sleep i dream code.

be an artist you'll loose less hair and have a better chance of picking up chicks.

btw, i love code and couldnt live without it.

If you get a kick out of swearing at, and hurling abuse towards inanimate objects (ie. you computer) then coding is the way to go!!! :)
CYer, Blitz

quote:Originally posted by lava_monkey

be an artist you'll loose less hair and have a better chance of picking up chicks.

Yes its true.. all of it! [^]

lol @ Blitz, that is so true

Sorry to semi-hijack this thread - Is there really that much math in the realm of computer games programming? I'm good for maths, but I kind of was under the impression it was starting to take a bit of a backseat in games programming (aside from the obvious physics applications).

Maths is no substitute for chicks, damn being a programmer!

I'm not sure that just loving games is enough...it's part of it for sure, but there are lots of other factors/desirable characteristics. Self-motivation is important, work ethic, things like that. Once you do this kind of job for so many years, although it's fun, it does degrade into essentially a "job". I'm not speaking from experience though, I'm just a Uni student :)

yeh your right maitrek theres less and less maths in coding now days, but i still think that coders should understand as much as they can of whats going on in the background, so i still think that maths is important.

Maths is only less used in programming these days because it is all done for you. 3D (and 2D) graphics, sound, physics, AI, all have a LOT of math involved with them, however mostly you have it wrapped up enough that you won't have to worry about it much unless you're developing the engines that do the graphics/physics etc.
It's the same with sorting/searching etc. algorithms. You hardly touch them these days, because you already have something (eg. STL) that does it for you. However, once again, if you're working on the low level engine bits and pieces you will need to use these.
It's always good to know how these things (algorithms, maths) work, in case you ever do need to use them. Even if you can't remember them off the top of your head, at least you will know what you are looking for!
CYer, Blitz

stop playing so many games and go improve your art, unless you want to be a game designer/ tester/ issue raiser

because a lot of other people looking for jobs can map like that as well...

its a hard industry to get into, so i guess you just gotta be persistent

These definitely look brimming with potential! Anywhere where one may download these maps? Went through both the MSN site and you GeoCities site linked in your profile and couldn't find them.

What, if any, experience do you have? If none, them I might recommend getting on a mod team and pumping out a few maps. (On a similar note, work up your portfolio site. Include a resume, goals, etc etc. Sell yourself.)

How do you create your maps? Straight out of your head, or do you do some concept sketches or documents on how it'll look/work/flow? These kind of things will aid you not only in getting a job, but also in your longtime workflow. It also shows your potential employer that you actually think these things through, and don't just come up with these masterpieces by 'chance'. `

Some links to job offers below... if you can fullfill the requirements in these jobs, and be able to back it up, then you're on the right track.
[url]http://www.sumea.com.au/snews.asp?news=555&related=Pandemic%20Studios[/…]
[url]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=619[/url]

I'm told by friends in the industry that level design is a good way to be wanted in the industry. So if you have strong level design skills, as well as experience with modeling or texturing, you'll look even better to the company.

Hmm... hope I haven't rambled too incoherently, and actually given some advice that may be useful. @:-p

Don't limit yourself to one game, all the shots I can see there are from UT2003, which means you can use UnrealEd. But what about if the company that you wish to join doesn't use the Unreal engine?

Try and expand your skills, different games, different map styles, different map types, etc. But don't spread yourself so thin that the quality of your work suffers.

Hope that's of some help.

Munk, where have you actually applied to, and what kind of responses have you been getting from those places?

If thats all you've been showing possible employee's then its no wonder you're asking this question. You need to give yourself a solid portfolio and have the ability to capture their interest in order for them to give you a shot at explaining your design process to them. From those screenshots, I can't make out anything from the level apart from its theme. I can't see how it would flow, connectivity, use of the games features etc... how can you expect them to see that?

I was just turned down from Micro Forte after applying for their level designer position - it was spread out over two months+ but they taught me a lot about what attributes I need to be able to display in order for them to take me on board. Write some theory on what makes a good level, write up a design document for a new level then build from it. Submit those with your portfolio and see what happens then. Work isn't going to come to you simply because you can create a map, you need to push for it.

Great stuff on those maps but Brain, Redwyre and Kris are right, you need more than one engine and alot more work etc.
Maybe threads like this one don't help either, sounds sorta whiney and if that comes across to dev companies they'll think twice about hiring you even with your kick arse mapping skills.

Nearly all the guys/gals on this forum are have the same problem about finding work as you so don't feel to isolated, we're one big disfunctional family [:P].

Can we download the maps anywhere?

they look very high poly and badly texture maybe that is the reason

(cough) thought these guys where still looking for an environmental artist....
http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=593

(punches doord in the nuts) it is not that bad, lacks a bit of aesthetic coheasion (add some edge definition to make it a bit less visually confusing for the player) the surfaces all are very creative and is a start at making some interesting architectual spaces (ok, i studied architecture for 3 years)....

(After coming back from the attack, doord turn and kicks Davidcoen in the nuts)

I didn't say they looked bad, just that they were very high poly looking (tell me if I'm wrong here but are not computer game played in real time.) If every level had this amount of detail (in this way) most computer would have a hard time. Also about the texture, most of the detail in the model could easy be done with texture (and normal mapping which you maybe not have but anyway) and it looks like he had just done a render to texture for the mesh and that is it.

I maybe was a little stright to the point, but is anwered the question asked.

Even getting your folio seen with that ammount of applicants will be interesting. Well one can but try.

Pantmonger

2 will try lol

Mmm... my portfolio really hasn't changed since I last applied to them for the Junior Artist position, bar the amount of life drawing I've done since then, which is a good thing but I'd be needing more stuff of what they're looking for.

*sigh* Count me out on this one.

heheh ;)

whoops, i should read all the posts before adding my own comment, my "heheh" was in response to the first post, not in response to yours brain, peace.

Mmmmmm Tribes......

Having said what I said, I hope Irrational Games do get picky with who they choose to come on board - and only get the *best* talent around. My opinion on First Person Shooters is that this genre, more than any other, is sold largely on eye candy.. If your artwork doesn't at least match the quality of the best that's around (and the bar is pretty high at the moment, check out the stuff in Half Life 2 or [url="http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/stalkeroblivionlost/screenindex_60298…"]Stalker[/url]..), most of those FPS fans aren't going to give it a shot.

I actually think the art pipelines getting easier now that theres things like normal maps, higher polycount etc. You can let the geometry or psuedo geometry as in normal maps do half the texturing for you.

Better hope they aren't as picky as MicroForte Sydney, or they won't hire anyone! :P
CYer, Blitz

quote:Originally posted by Malus

I actually think the art pipelines getting easier now that theres things like normal maps, higher polycount etc. You can let the geometry or psuedo geometry as in normal maps do half the texturing for you.

Those do make things look better, but it's still the talent of the artist behind those methods that count, I think. I've seen some level designs using normal maps that look pretty shoddy, compared to the levels in Doom 3. Higher polycounts don't necessarily mean better quality models (and I am on the opinion that with higher polycounts, bad artists are going to find it much harder to hide their shortcomings).

quote:originaly posted by Souri.
"and I am on the opinion that with higher polycounts, bad artists are going to find it much harder to hide their shortcomings."

Totally agree man, thats a good thing in my opinion.
I've noticed some people who excelled when the limit was say 800 -1500 polys are struggling with higher counts, efficiency should still be important and I think some artists get lazy because they have lots to use.

With these new standards I'm enjoying haveing more scope to define things like muscle structure in polys not texture and i feel I'm getting better characters as these factors come into play.[:P]

And normal maps just rock. Farcry, Doom 3, Dues Ex 2 are going to kick booty.

Theirs always going to be artists who make sub standard work even when they have more to work with, check out some of the character models in Morrowind (great game btw), they where reasonably high but looked lower than what they where, if you look at the wireframes they are a mess, polys everywhere.

Anyway off topic again, back to tribes. The screenshots look pretty cool, like the phoenix heavy weapons concept.

Things are petty cool here with Tribe (I think there was new shot of tribe come out last week) and we have a few people applying, but I don't think there has been all that many. I sit next to the lead artist I think I have seen most of them and there isn't as many as I was thinking there would be, but they are only just starting to come in.

Also I think you should read the Job page again "including Tribes: Vengeance and others" What could the "Others" mean???

quote:Originally posted by Doord


Also I think you should read the Job page again "including Tribes: Vengeance and others" What could the "Others" mean???

I don't know. Ask the Irrational Games personnel that sent me the job notice [;)] It's strange hearing that I.G's aren't inundated with resumes/portfolio's. I'd certainly be applying if I had stuff to show! I remember an article where someone from Ratbag lamented on the lack of talent here in Australia - it's pretty strange.. some studios are finding it hard to get good talent (Micro Forte), where as some places sort through hundreds of applicants (Last Gun Studios)..

Depends on the standard/quality of work companies are looking for, and the amount of industry experience they want people to have.
I doubt MF etc. get few applications, but they seem to have such incredibly high standards that they have trouble finding people who measure up...
I think people just aren't applying for IG jobs because canberra is such a hole :)
CYer, Blitz

Man I'd work anywhere just to get into the industry, even .....Canberra, boo ha ha.
Anyway I not expecting to get enough free time to have to go outside when they hire me, lol. (I wish) [:P]

Nothing really wrong with Microforte expecting the best talent, as long as they try Oz first before getting people from overseas I have no problem with it.

Saying that though Ive seen a few companies (not sure about Microforte) posting criteria as bad as 5 yrs industry experience and 2+ shipped games for junior roles!
Theres only a handful of Oz companies older than 5 yrs with 2 games lol.
Ah the laughter hehe.

Shit there was a huge number of 2D and a few 3D one come in over the week end. I don't think are that many that stand out, personally but I'm not the one hiring.

They are still coming to, makes me think how the hell did I get a job here [?][?][?].

Canberra not that bad, it's a little cold. But the night life isn't as bad as lot of poeple say. Hell if you don't have a good time, I say it has more to do with you then were you are most of the time. [:)]

You can all stop sending in your reels now!!

My demo reel of unsurpassable awesomeness is currently en-route to Irrational.

*future irrational employee/deluded*

Sending mine tomorrow. Round 1 fight.

Pantmonger

contender number 3,000,000 here

Try number 4,000,000

So who ended up getting the jobs? Anyone?

Well if they've already made up their mind and rung them then I guess I didn't....again [:P]
But perservence is a virtue. I'm unstopable bo ha ha.

Anyone here go for the recent Programmer or Junior Designer positions at Irrational?

@Jason, a guy i worked with (bitch monkey) got one of the 3d artist jobs i believe

I applied for Lead Programmer yesterday. [:)]

Anyone know who got the Junior Designer position? I'm interested to know how much experience roughly even a 'Junior' position requires(?)

I don't think there are any employment agencies that concentrate on the local games industry (unless someone wants to correct me!).. probably because the industry is relatively small here. You might occasionally find the odd game job from I.T/Multimedia agencies..
I'd hate to tout my own horn, but Sumea is a good place to start if you want to find jobs here.

+ here are some employment sites, if u dont know of them already:

www.seek.com.au
www.odysseyrecruit.com.au
www.monster.com.au

thanks guys

Just wondering how the Games Employment situation is over there in the UK, from someone that actually lives and works there?

Ever since the US had increased its security and restrictions on entry, esp for the IT / games industry, I was wanting to go work over in the UK or Europe. So how goes it over there generally?

I suppose there is a recession on right now - but game co's are not usually affected by this. I was discussing this with senior manager in Empire and he was telling me that people actually buy lots of games during recession probably as a spot of therapy :-)) LOL

Um - the game industry in the UK is pretty competative - but its pretty open to all to be honest. I work for an Ozzie (gregg Barnett) and I work with Americans, French, Indian's and two greek guys - some of which had to get working visas to be here. Mostly though Empire operation is based in the UK - which is a big shame. Im desperately trying to persuade the co to open an office in Oz though - no luck so far :-(

Overall, however, I'd say that companies are weathering the storm and employment looks pretty even keeled here. May I suggest getting hold of The Edge (a Uk mag) this has LOADS of jobs in it. Actually - Ive seen jobs for America and Oz in there too - but this is usually via agents.

here in the UK - most co's are small set ups - but are probably part of a larger group.

I work for Sick puppies, but we are owned by Empire interactive.
Its a bit like the EA taking over Bullfrog and owning them outright for example.

Yeah, I kinda heard from Gareth White (leaving ratbag now, or already left) that the games industry in the UK is quite good.

So what makes you wnat to come over here - the sun and the surf, or the price of beer?

Here's another one i found

http://www.jobsdbase.net/aust_summaries.asp

Souri: Perhaps you should start a list of gamedev releated job agencies, the one fuzzmeister found is a good start :)

quote:Originally posted by Daemin

Yeah, I kinda heard from Gareth White (leaving ratbag now, or already left) that the games industry in the UK is quite good.
----------
Ha ha - Small world - I know Gareth W. We used to work together in London up until perfect entertainment went down. Fun bloke.

How do you know him then??
----------

So what makes you wnat to come over here - the sun and the surf, or the price of beer?

--------------
has to be the beer mate...
no - I like the idea of my wee son being able to grow up in an environment where he can at least go out an play when he's a bit older - rather than living in a tiny street, in an over priced house next to a sodding motorway..

:-)

Im actually quite surprised that OZ's industry is thin on the ground - I really thought it was more stable and grounded than what it appears to be after reading this list - makes one nervous....

here are two Ive used in the UK - both VERY good....

http://www.pelican-consultants.com/html/index.html

www.aardvarkswift.com

I know that aardvark have been handling jobs all over the world including Oz/New zealand etc... though these tended to be Major experience only type roles

--------

quote:Originally posted by fuzzmeister

Here's another one i found

http://www.jobsdbase.net/aust_summaries.asp

I don't really *know* him as such, I saw him at the AGDC last year, and I met / talked to him at a talk he hosted with Nick Young at Adelaide Uni about Character Animation.

And yeah, at that time he said that he's finished with his stuff at Ratbag, and that he's going to move to the UK to get a job there.

That was probably over two weeks ago already.

quote:Originally posted by jimellis

Im actually quite surprised that OZ's industry is thin on the ground - I really thought it was more stable and grounded than what it appears to be after reading this list - makes one nervous....

For a relatively tiny country, I think we're doing alright. There are some REALLY good devs here. Infogrames Melbourne House (I'm sure there might be a few people who remember Gregg there [:)]), Irrational Games, Krome, Micro Forte, Blue Tongue, Ratbag etc.. All of them seem pretty stable.(It was only Evolution Games that have had to close up recently.)
There are also a fair few UK companies that have set up in Australia too. Creative Assembly is taylor made for UK devs wanting to work in Queensland, with tips and guides on living in Brisbane at their website [;)] www.creative-assembly.com.au

Good luck with the position, heres my understanding of the situation:

1. Yup.
2. Annual. ~$25K is what a junior should typically get. Ask for ~$32 though. [:)]
3. I'm not sure about a union... there are a few associations you should join. Anyone know?
4. You usually won't get paid for overtime. You should have worked harder!
5. That would be a bit rude. You might like to ask if you could work on their initial wage for a 3 month trial, after which they elevate your pay if they are happy with your work.

I'm new to this biz stuff, so everyone please correct my mistakes. [:)]

Scott.

Yeh, I posted about this in January - http://www.sumea.com.au/snews.asp?news=381&related=Industry

from this thread on CGTalk..
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34776

It sounds like a very extreme knee-jerk reaction, and I think will bite America on the ass in the long term..

A friend of mine has a part-time QA job at Infogrames Melbourne House

what is qualification for game tester ? do you need background for programing ?

Programming experience is not neccessary for QA positions.
From what i've read/heard about QA positions, the most desirable qualities are:
- Team work!
- Played hundreds of games, knows exactly why a certain game is good or bad AND could suggest ways to improve the game.
- Has a reasonable amount of technical knowledge as far as the hardware that the games are running on is concerned. This means the tester can make reasonable suggestions/test for things that may be specific to certain hardware etc.
- Good communications skills. The tester must be able to very clearly identify any problems to the development team.
- Good general debugging skills. Take note of everything you do, so that when you do find a problem, you can write down exactly how to reproduce that problem. (Knowing the hardware also helps here.)
- Can play the same bit of the same level of the same game hundreds of times without losing concentration. The idea here is for the tester to treat the job as a "job" rather than just getting to play games all day.

In some instances, QA guys are more like designers than anything else. As well as testing a game for technical bugs, it is also their job to find flaws in the gameplay. This means you play games a lot and know exactly how to break gameplay. Testers should also be able to suggest how to fix design flaws.

I believe Microforte have a QA team.

CYer, Blitz

what are the age restrictions to be a tester

The legal working age (around 15 or so in most of australia?) however, there may be restrictions if you need to sign a legal contract (such as NDA), and most companies probably won't hire anyone under 18 simply because they may not be mature and reliable enough to work well as part of a team. Companies don't want to babysit people.
You never know if you don't ask (the companies) though.
CYer, Blitz

Do companies normally advertise these positions? Or is it one that you have to approach them for individually?

Out of the year and a half that Sumea's been up, I've only noticed one ad for a QA job, and that was posted by Finger (** oh, and the Senior QA position by THQ Australia [:)]). Definately should approach them first if you're after a QA job.

Yet another question (sorry guys!): What are the chances of landing a QA job? I have considerable prior experience is testing (for business applications though) and coding, but will this count. I also imagine that the companies can pick and choose, with there being a large amount of competiveness for the jobs.

Just a side note and slightly O/T from the original post, many of the people I've dealt with here and overseas (both producers and executive producers) have a background in QA, and they're all earning very good money now.... it'd definitely seems to be a great place to start if you want to work your way up the corporate ladder in game development, especially if you have good leadership skills.

*makes mental note to answer all these questions when he has time later*

1) make a demo. 4 tracks. different styles.
2) offer to work for free (as anything)
- if you can get your name known by being keen, reliable, and yet being no cost to the company then you'll be the first to hear about up-comming music jobs. Employers would rather go with someone they've worked with before rather than get someone completely new.
3) after you have a few big names on your resume (doens't matter if you weren't paid for it) it looks rad + with your cd demo you'll be in a wickid position to get a job.

Some game companies contract out all the audio work (close to the completion of their title) to sound studios and contract composers.
But it's becoming more popular to have an "in-house" audio person that works along side all the other designers (this means the sound is usually closer to the asethtic + function of the game and therefor produces a better end result).

if you want to know more sign up to www.gamasutra.com and read the bios of the audio guys in there for more tips on how to break in as a composer/sound designer.

Em.

eridgway@pandemicstudios.com.au

1) You need some good material.
2) You need to be able to write any style
3) Able to create for multiple platforms. GBA, PDA, XBOX... etc
4) Know people in the industry (networking), make friends with programmers, artists.. anyone who works with companies already.
5) Be multi-talented. I have created Music as well as Sound Effects. Most companies (specially smaller ones) would prefer someone who can do a bit of both.
6) PERSISTANCE
7) PERSISTANCE
8) PERSISTANCE
9) PERSISTANCE

oh.. and PERSISTANCE..

I mean if you truly love what you do, you never give up.

Most game companies want someone who can deliver, on time and to specifications, and as z-girl says, they don't particularly like to use rookies who they don't know anything about. By practicing on startup non-commercial projects you get a feel for what developers are looking for and how to write to specifications.

I found that a good game company doesn't stick to just one audio person, and will use from a pool of 2-3 for different concurrent projects. Most have 2 audio guys, one for music and one for SFX, but usually both know a bit of both fields and can help out when it's crunch time.

Oh, and most game companies HATE agencies.

Good luck.

Dude, One word. DEMO'S.
And it depends from company to company, Maths is extremly important, But a good demo is worth so much more.
My advice, Build DEMOS (3D), Demos demos demos......

0xBaaDf00d
-------------------------------------------------------------
There is no Schwartz

what exactly is a _demo_ ?

A water effects demo is a good example. :D

Just little programs showing off things you have done, not necessarily full games.

Scott.

Cool, i suppose i'll have a go at the programmers challenge going on ;)

For my demo CD, I used the two games that I linked to below. They both ran on a framework I made called AMGOS (currently undergoing a complete rewrite). AMGOS provided some basic services, and DLLs would contain the game code and use AMGOS to put stuff on screen and all sorts of other stuff. This had the advantage that I could write another menu style program and load up the games in question without having to restart any programs or firing up another process. As has been said before though, you don't need games, just demos (in fact, the person who interviewed me thought of the WH40K game as a tech demo and not a full blown game - but he did get addicted to Worms in Tanks [:)])

http://www.doomworld.com/doomarcade/downloads/amgos_wh40k_alpha_bin.zip
http://www.doomworld.com/doomarcade/downloads/amgos_wormsintanks_v0.95_…

The source for Worms In Tanks is released under the GPL:
http://www.doomworld.com/doomarcade/downloads/amgos_wormsintanks_v0.95_…

In my opinion things in your portfolio do not necessarily need to all be games or demos. I think you will find that quite a few companies place a lot of value on anything that demonstrates a thorough understanding of C/C++ and OOD. Though if it can be a game, even better.

My portfolio, which helped me land a job at Irrational Games about 7 months ago, consisted of a single game. The game and source code can be found at http://yellowsoftware.sourceforge.net/volumewar/ (it is yet another take on the 3D worms idea).

Cheers
Alex

Advice on what exactly?
How to get work experience? Well there is a thread on the difficulties of that.
How to get a job? Other then saying "create a folio of your best work and pimp it" there is not that much else we can do. Most of us are still looking for work also.

Pantmonger

have you got a site where we can see some of your work?

I'm not sure if you happen to be in Sydney or Canberra, but Microforte is always on the lookout for extra artists. Send them a show reel, a resume, and an email, and see what happens. It's a good idea to do this with any company you're interested in working for, even if they don't currently have any positions advertised.

quote:Originally posted by inglis

have you got a site where we can see some of your work?

no but i will soon, im just trying to put together my final animation for uni, that going to be the core of my folio.

Thanks for the link though, some very nice work! Just one question, what did u use to render those images?

quote:Thanks for the link though, some very nice work! Just one question, what did u use to render those images?

:) thats just my forum signature-
i used maxes default scanline renderer.

http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=382&SearchTerms=work+e…

and

http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=166&SearchTerms=work+e…

hope that helps

good luck with your folio

quote:Originally posted by Tripitaka

I'm not sure if you happen to be in Sydney or Canberra, but Microforte is always on the lookout for extra artists. Send them a show reel, a resume, and an email, and see what happens. It's a good idea to do this with any company you're interested in working for, even if they don't currently have any positions advertised.

thanks Tripitaka (what does that mean btw), i will do so as soon as possible. Just one question, are there any game companies based in sydney that do work experience?

quote:Originally posted by inglis

quote:Thanks for the link though, some very nice work! Just one question, what did u use to render those images?

:) thats just my forum signature-
i used maxes default scanline renderer.

good luck with your folio

max 5 does the environmental lighting right?
thanks again.

3dsmax5 does have a gi feature and radiosity

I did work experience at Video Ezy. [:D] But that's only because I knew I'll have industry connections with Design & Tech., so I didn't really need proper work experience. Although some of the work WAS tedious, like ripping off the "New Release" stickers for 50-odd videotapes and listening to the same previews on telly over and over and over and over... *continues mumbling to self*

- Sertan Saral

I did work experience at Beam Software (now Infogrames Melbourne House)back in 1998. It was by far the best two weeks of my schooling life. They don't take work experience people anymore, but I would suggest emailing all the developers in Melbourne, surely one of them would be willing to take you on. Good luck [:)]

Thanks for the help, and that's basically what I did (either called or emailed) everyone listed under Victoria for game developers on this site. They all basically referred me to Infogrames as well but yeah, they said they don't take work experience so I'll probably end up doing it at some shotty computer store. heh.

There's a fair few more Victorian companies listed on the Multimedia Victoria webpage.. Go the the developers page on Sumea and look MMV up.. http://www.sumea.com.au/sdevelopers.asp ... and yeh, it's a shame game companies don't offer work experience..

Its is a shame but has a lot to do with the illegal nature of such things. To the strict letter of the law, if you are not a non profit community org then you must, by Australian law, pay people for every hour they work for you.

Thats why most companies won't do it. Its also why if you do a two hour trial in a cafe and they don't hire you, you can demand 2 hours worth of pay.

Pantmonger

[img]http://home.iprimus.com.au/evilbunny/Jagged/GamaPantsWeb.gif[/img]

Thanks Souri, I'll see what I can find on it. And the minimum for work experience is only $5 a day which goes for a week so it's not really that bad when you think about it. I do understand though, because Publishers often rip the developers off.

I got work experience at a computer shop, that was easy and that.

Of all the Games Companies that I've got a reply from all but one do not take work experience, and the one that does cannot at the moment.

I'd say just got for the Computer Shop work experience position.

quote:Originally posted by Midnight

Thanks Souri, I'll see what I can find on it. And the minimum for work experience is only $5 a day which goes for a week so it's not really that bad when you think about it. I do understand though, because Publishers often rip the developers off.

I think you will find it's not the money that stops most companies from taking on Work Experience students. Here are a few reasons I can think of that probably influence a companies decision.
(I'm not saying any particular company has any/all of these reasons, but they probably all contribute to it)

- Lack of a suitable 'mentor' to look after the student (or at least a suitable mentor with enough time to spare)
- Difficulty in finding appropriate work for students to do - most games people would want a student to get to do more than stuffing envelopes or stapling stuff :-) (although I think it is appropriate to demonstrate that it's not all fun & games, if you pardon the pun)
- The payoff is very long term (probably at least 3 years before you'll see that student back looking for a job) so some people don't see it as a benefit (many do, since they know how hard it is to find skilled interested people in Australia)
- Timing... Work experience usually occurs at busy times in a games companies schedule, occurring during one of the 12 months of the year :-) One thing about games companies... there's *always* an important milestone about to happen!

I know that at Infogrames we do offer one four-week internship to the winner of the 3D Animation category at the ACMI Infogrames Diegeis Festival ([url]http://www.acmi.net.au/diegesis/section/play/awards.htm[/url]) which is a special case - and I would consider this to be much more than work experience.

Hmm - those points all seem to make Work Experience sound bad to companies, so I'll throw in a few reasons why I think it's good (I did work experience at high school and was glad I did it - but sadly it never occurred to me to try to get work experience at Beam/Melbourne House at the time - I might have had a totally different life if I had!)

The good points:
- Lets a student see what life is like in the "real world" - i.e. we only play CounterStrike after 6pm, you've got to get to work by 10am, etc :-)
- The more students that realise you can have a career in gaming, the more students that will tailor their Uni/etc towards that career and improve the industry in this country
- 3-4 years between Work Experience and starting real work sounds like a long time, but it's only 2 projects in the companies schedule!
- Work Experience students who work at games companies are the envy of their friends who had to work at the chicken factory for a week :-)
- Greater communication between this generation of games developers and the next generation is the only way for the industry to grow and mature (learn from the previous generations mistakes and successes)

enough of my waffle :-)
zaph

Yeah, that's fairly similar to what I thought was the case. I think Blue Tongue was the one who basically told me I wouldn't learn anything useful and there wouldn't be much for me to do. So I guess it's not that much of a surprise, thanks for everyone's help.

In addition to what Zaph mentioned, confidentiality is a major issue. Even if non-disclosure agreements were signed, it would be too risky to let a stranger in and then discuss commercially sensitive issues. Keep in mind that when a company sends out a press release, it's usually been strategically planned and timed - the people who work for the company usually knew the news in it months or even years beforehand. In some cases, it could only take one tiny piece of information leaking out to bring down a whole development deal. The idea of a competitor sending someone also isn't out of the realms of possibility.

If development companies could prepare some sort of activity sheet for a work experience person that requires little or no 'baby sitting'. Give them a tour of the office, some explanation on what goes on, who does what etc.. Then maybe get them to follow a standard (made up) brief or assignment (like model a certain character etc), which is then discussed and commented on by the Art team at various stages (which I'm sure it won't take toooo much of their time)..
It'll avoid most of the issues mentioned above, and although it may not be as involving as in a real development environment, it's definately much better than nothing.

I agree entirely - but very few companies indeed would bother to go to the trouble, especially when it doesn't benefit them in any way. If a work experience candidate were really serious about entering the games industry, I'd probably recommend they do a short course at the AIE instead.

There are plenty of highly skilled candidates for jobs within the gaming industry; I can?t see their motivation

nannoo nannoo

They havent registered a number with telstra so I doubt they want people ringing them yet, they are most likely too busy setting up shop. I think it would hinder your chances of getting work if anyone rang them right now. Just email them, they reply.

Dean Ferguson - 3D/2D Artist

http://www.inkmancomic.com/dean/portfolio/index.html

Has anyone had a reply from THQ yet?

Pantmonger

[img]http://home.iprimus.com.au/evilbunny/Jagged/GamaPantsWeb.gif[/img]

had two replys from thq, a helper and the 'lead animator', both asking for my demo CD, last comunications on the 26th feb...

I got one from the lead animator and one from the director. Fingers crossed.

Dean Ferguson - 3D/2D Artist

http://www.inkmancomic.com/dean/Portfolio/index.html

few weeks have passed anyone have any feedback?

last email was on the the 1st of march but nothing since then, theyre getting some huge amount of portfolios each day I've heard.

I've emailed David from THQ for an update.. hopefully he can clue you in..

Hi Souri,

Yes, the response has been overwhelming. We are still collecting responses and hope to shortlist people in the next 2 weeks and then respond to everybody then.

Thanks again for your help

David MacMinn

THQ Studio Australia

That's pretty much the same reply I got, but for the coder jobs

I've been told they have started rejections (at least for the coders). So I guess no news is good news :)

haha yeh, i applied a week ago as part of my 10 jobs for centerlink
i have to say i didnt put to much effort into applying for a job there because i wasnt really interested. But I've received 4 rejection emails already, all from the same person on different dates...

No news yet, man I hope thats a good sign.

i was sent an email last wednesday inviting me to attend an interveiw this wednesday, which of course i am going to, and I cant wait :)if any1 feels like crossing their fingers for me at 3pm this arvo, that would be nice :)I missed this forum until now and i am just doing some final research on the company and in hindsite it would have been good to communicate will some peeps that had allready been to interviews.... altho i have not applied for anyone one position and they have not mentioned what position they may have for my skills...hmmmmmm

Don't know of anyone else whos scored an interview Beasta. Good luck man, "Maya the force be with you." [;)].
Off topic, got a website, be interested in seeing what they look for.

There's another thread discussing the same thing over at http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=358 if you want to learn programming, and located in Melbourne.

If you're willing to make the move, maybe try the Acedemy of Interactive Entertainment, or Qantm.. links and details available at the linkstation.. http://www.sumea.com.au/slinks.htm

I'm sure it's been said before, but essentially if you have hard talent, the requirement of 2+ years experience can get thrown out of the window. However, to increase your chances, working on a small game or mod greatly increases your chances, as you will have experience building a game with a team, going through some of the trials and tribulations you'll experience in commercial development.

So get a team together or join a team, or concentrate on your diversified portfolio. Whichever.

"Work hard. Be good to your mother." @;-)

Chris Bowden
http://brain.gamekey.com/

cool thanks for the advice....as it so happens me and some freinds were planning to make a "game" to the best of our abilities (which at the moment resemble[}:)] or possibly [:p]......but hey you gotta start somewhere[:)]

They'll pick someone who has enthusiasm and talent over someone who is a PhD in Computer Engineering but would rather be somewhere else any day. The person who gets the job sometimes only has about half the qualifications mentioned in the advertisement.

Plus, it never hurts to send in your resume one way or the other ... even if you're not quite qualified for what they want, they may have another position that could suit you.

Much of the time the position doesn't exist until someone comes along to fill it.

Scott.

Hello everyone, my first post here and I thought I'd add a little of my own ideas to this thread.

I've worked in the game dev industry for just on 5 years now for both local and international developers as a 3D modeller/texture artist.
I'm self taught, what began as a hobby about 10 years ago turned full time when I managed to land a job at a Melbourne game dev studio... the pay was bad and the hours were long and it was a difficult time for my family considering we'd had to move interstate for this job and I was earning around half of what I used to get in my previous job.
Anyway, it was good grounding for what I've been doing for the past 3 years which is freelancing (more of this in another topic maybe).

One thing I always strive to do is to be different than the next person in my approach to practically anything in life... anything that will give me some kind of advantage.
I honestly didn't have too much trouble finding a job once I decided the time was right for me to look, so I'll share some of my approaches with you.

Don't be afraid to break the so-called 'rules' of how to get a job in the industry... getting in through the back door can sometimes yield better results than through traditional methods of approach.

If you're an artist, try to find out the name of the lead artist at the company you want to work for, if possible contact that person and send him/her an email explaining how you'd bend over and take it any way to get a job as an artist at their company. Ask if there's anything you could submit to them to show your talents and most importantly, if they do show any interest, follow up with whatever they ask for asap to show you are keen and reliable.

Think of it like this, you send your resume/portfolio into a game company and it ends up on the desk of either the Personnel manager, executive producer, CEO, secretary or whatever, and unless they're currently employing poeple, the senior artists/programmers will never get to see your work.
If you've already built up a repour with the person who'll usually have the most pull when making the final hiring decision (the senior artist/programmer), and that person know's you're talented, keen and reliable, you already have a strong advantage over all other applicants.

Just remember there's loads of talented people applying to most game dev companies daily, you have to make yourself stand out amoungst the crowd, which means being 'creative' in your approach.

I've found in the past that phoning up companies (instead of writing) is a more personal approach, and can get very good results if you can get through to the right person.

Attending functions such as the AGDC is very good for networking and making contact (unfortunately it's not so good for much else) especially during the suite parties where people tend to let their guard down a little after a few drinks, can be a great way to break the ice and strike up a conversation with the person who could be responsable for getting you your dream job.

I hope this will give some of you a little inspiration... most importantly, never give up! [:)]

the trick here is simply to work on your own project, it could be a game, an open source library, just something related to games programming

generally this goes down to imo, spending 1-2 years solidly working on something which you can then use to get you a job, your mileage may vary, and its certainly not the only way to get a games programming job, but imo its the best way to prove you are suitable for engine programming work

More Kromers! @;-) You prolly just got my mate's spot. He's just nabbed a spot as a Hardware guy.

And JB always seemed like the C64 kinda guy to me. Yay for oldschoolers! @;-) I've gotta get my arse to Brissie, then JB'll at least see me. That or Space Capt. Steve can see my plight and sweet talk him. *laughs*

Enjoy Gaz!!

Chris Bowden
http://brain.gamekey.com/

Welcome to the Kroman Empire

http://www.jasondalton.com

All roads lead to Krome!

Congrats man. Hey say hi to my mate Ryan for me, he started work as a 3D animator / modeller a little while back.