General Chat

1) You have an unhealthy obsession with money, a naive outlook on business plans revolving around money and a belief that your team is in games development in the hopes of being millionaire barons rather than thoughtful developers.

2) You are yet to mention any slightly believable plan for how things will run and move along in regards to your team/business and all anyone signing up for this has to go on is your own word that you're awesome because you've played games and loaded with money because you're expecting an insurance payout.

3) With the above two points in mind, I can only ever read your posts in the following ways: either dripping with sarcasm or pointing at a naive outlook. Sorry if it's the latter and you find this harsh, I take back the apology if it's the former though.

That said, game idea is ok. Will never make it as an mmo of course, but not many games actually do make it as credible mmo's so you're not alone there.

I dont have a unhealthy obsession with money, Im in it for the power, Im right with my house and my lamborghini thats all i need. I noted that the money was for the team (my new friends) which i want also to own a super car.

And about hopes being millionaires, its easy to see that a large percentage of the 7.2 bllion people on earh are going to buy beserco stray cat so I probally should of said billionaires :)

The idea of profit shares is so that the team can work from home at the own pace without the irritating feeling of making others money rather than their team. All other costs will be covered by me and other multi millionaire investors.

As for making it to the mmo thats depends on my extra 5 to 15 million dollars.

So the idea now is to get the team organised and talking, the graphic animation in progress and the programming under way.

I dont think drawing a few animals would be such a fastideous task.

meow uh .... wolf wolf

I'll join your team, I'm an experienced programmer, how much will you pay per hour for my time? And when can we start?

In addition to the problems pointed out by Bittman:
1) Your grammar and spelling are absolute crap
2) You're out of date. There are no "Electronics Boutiques" any more, only "EB Games"
3) Your target audience is "people with money". Have fun with that!
4) "the boys in the hood" can be pretty much guaranteed to not be an honest reference of character
5) The game idea sounds OK, but would only appeal to a very specific type of person and is likely to flop. It's certainly not a mint. There would be little, if any, profit from this venture, so offering profit shares is not winning anyone over, especially for the amount of effort required to implement "GTA-style" free-roaming gameplay without making it hideously tedious.
6) You want to expand the team to develop the game, but you will turn it into an MMO after it starts selling? Even if this was possible without pissing off everyone who purchased the original game (note that World of Warcraft is nothing like Warcraft, and Warhammer Online is nothing like Dawn of War), you'd have a lot of trouble becoming established.

It's obvious you have no experience in the industry. Playing games does not count, as anyone who has tried to write any form of game (even in BASIC or VB) can tell you. If you didn't keep reposting your pathetic excuse for a project plan, I'd think you were joking.

Seriously, give up. You're not winning any friends.

You realise that for "the team" to make money here, you have to convince people to buy the game? Just saying "it will sell to lots of people" isn't convincing, neither is "it will be an MMO".

It'd probably be better for you to pitch the game idea to one of the big developers. They listen to people with Lamborghinis.

1. I've worked on open world games for four years... and in my professional opinion, your plan doesn't make sense. Converting a single player free roaming game into an MMO is like turning a dead chicken into a space station, it just isn't physically possible without throwing everything out and starting from scratch.


2. In previous threads you dishonestly pledged small amounts of investment to your own cause, suggesting that $500 would be significant. Uh, yeah... that would pay a single decent programmer for like... 4 days? Even if you were clever with design, how you spent money and where you could cut corners, a game like this would cost a lot to make... and making an mmo would be a monolithic financial undertaking.


Please just stop, okay?
Make a small game (try making tetris to begin with), see how much effort is involved.

Your six points are a bit of bullshit. For someone in the industry it sounds like your just hogging the employees. I think the people are going to like beserko better than you.

Quote Anonymous
'5) The game idea sounds OK, but would only appeal to a very specific type of person and is likely to flop. It's certainly not a mint. There would be little, if any, profit from this venture, so offering profit shares is not winning anyone over, especially for the amount of effort required to implement "GTA-style" free-roaming gameplay without making it hideously tedious.'

This quote is what got me mad.

Sounds like you really meant the opposite of what you said cause the opposite of what you said is the truth right. And when you say the game idea sounds OK you mean its FN brilliant dont you.

Who the hell doesnt like kitties and doggies. Or even mousies or biting their heads off for that matter.

And yes you can work for me only if you behave.

Logging out isn't hiding your identity here.

There are a LOT of people who don't like animals. There are a LOT of people who don't like cats.

When I said the game idea sounds OK I meant the game idea sounds OK. If you want to think I meant otherwise, fine. Waste your money, time and effort.

I might consider working on this project if I had decent pay and a project leader who had a coherent and cohesive plan. You are offering neither of these things.

I'm going to place bets that when a moderator checks this sender IP... it's going to be the same as Anonymous dog.

Actually, my first reaction was that it was someone else. I mean, this Anonymous is asking for an hourly rate.

Well exactly what i said 'first a quick and addictive version' for those who havnt played alley cat its like a 1.4 meg or less game.

As for the mmo version that is more of a 'toon town' animal kingdom not intened for passing levels as such in the original game but for communication, brawling, sheer fun and mucking around. I believe this mmo would be an effective time spender for those who are bored of life and want to enter the animal heaven. My granfather always said he wanted to be reincarnated as a cat.

Money wise everything is under control from software to sales, just need to get a few cats, dogs, mice and birds maybe some spiderwebs and then its the background. As easy as it sounds.

Another thing, to promote sales a screen shot of the best frame in the game is going to be on the front cover and on advertising posters which I will make seen by every person on the planet.

Keep going

Anonymous Dogg has been known to do hijinks like this before, and replying under different logins all with the same ip details. My advice is to ignore his threads.

Anonymous Dogg, your other threads have been deleted because you're spamming the same post multiple times.

So now we should believe you that it's an addictive game?

As for the MMO version, a game without gameplay? Not saying it can't be done (Second Life exists), but good luck with that.

Quote:
"an effective time spender for those who are bored of life and want to enter the animal heaven"

So now you're saying it has a limited market? That's more realistic, and means that offering profit share is unreasonable.

Money-wise, if everything is "under control", why are you not offering wages? You also seem to imply the game is finished save the graphics. So you've done the networking, back-end engine, interface, sound, control scheme, data structures etc? Quick, get a beta released before someone steals your poorly thought-out design!

If you can make ads that are seen by every person on the planet, you're in the wrong industry. Stop assuming that the world-wide gaming community is composed of idiots.

Hey I pressed the reply button not my fault your forum has bugs.

AND IM NOWHERE NEAR AS DISHONEST AS BILL GATES.

You obviously didn't read the bit that said your threads get removed because you're a spamming troll ...

Dude, you should be a comedian; you make me laugh! You're also nowhere near as successful as Bill Gates. If you were, you'd offer wages just like Microsoft does.

If your goal is to be laughed at and ridiculed, you have succeeded exceptionally. Congratulations! *clap clap*

This thread is comedy gold.

I mean, we'll probably get tired of him sooner rather than later, but he's great value.

Unfortunately, I know he's a troll more than a naive fool given the way he responds. It was more fun hoping he was just naive.

We need beserko action.

Please any serious people dont use anonymous to respond and give a bit of detail about yourself.

Ill say this for the last time,

Profit shares, work at your own pace from home.

My email wolvergod@hotmail.com send your details and work examples.

I need animators and programmers. (I can do the dog sound effects and the rest)

And someone with a big vocabanary.

We've been through this. No one will work for you unless you can demonstrate you understand what is required for the game to be made. Part of that is paying developers for them to spend their time and effort in your hopeless cause.

Well done on being able to bark like a dog, but can you meow like a cat?

Presumably, you want someone with a big vocabulary to teach you how to speak or write properly. This won't work either, as you refuse to learn from other people.

*slaps self for not being able to resist getting involved*

This thread is gold, entertainment plus. its gone on long enough i think though, in my opinion dogg these weird game pitches/scams seem to be more of an insult to the hard working game developers out there and you really need to stop. I don't think that anyone is stupid enough to trust you and souri has already pointed out the fact that you're screwing with people, why continue?

I'll love to stay and play with every anonymous coward on the planet but I have things to do, Plus you seem too stupid to get my vocabanary joke so how a you going to recognise a billion dollar game plan.

As for your grovelling over money, computers run on electricty.

LOL Troll is lol.

Once again you fail at the "Reply" button.

If you had a billion dollar game plan, everyone would be jumping on it. So if you do have one, please reveal it. Money is good, money buys things, money lets you post your pathetic ideas on the internet.

Expecting money for work done is not "grovelling". What is "grovelling" is you asking people to work for no reward. As it has been discussed, there is likely no way you will make any profit from this infantile venture.

Computers need electricity? No shit. How the hell are you going to sustain a development team if you're not paying them? Profit shares are all well and good, if they exist (which they won't), but that won't help pay the bills now.

I made the post about being the programmer with experience. I just wanted to see if Anonymous Dogg was willing to put his money where his mouth is. Obviously not as all he's offering is some stupid profit / shares deal. In other words he wants people to work for him for free.

Which is what I've been saying all along!

Wow, all these Anonymous people are getting confusing, especially when Dogg started posting logged out!

Also, you could have used the "Reply" on your own post ... *glares suspiciously*

Sorry I have my options set to Flat list expanded, so I see all the new posts at the very bottom like a normal forum (made it way easier than searching through dozens of posts for the latest reply when reading all that stuff int the Pandemic thread) so I totally forgot about the reply to post feature.

quoted from user Cad
"This thread is gold"

Ill ignore the rest of your post but thanks for your posting.

To recap the situation:

People you have a choice work for another company and be broke for 45 years or work as a millionaire that looks at money as the 'insult', (the word this guy Cad has just used).

Sorry for putting it so bluntly but your critisism is annoying me, phd dudes.

I wont stop untill this games is on the shelf. Dont worry Kitty, Puss Puss, Pussy cat, Tom cat, Garfield, Midget, Snowball and the Sumerai Pizza Cats. (RIP Nalie and Dino)

Thanks renzor (edited after his post)

What a pack of chumps.

Best post ever. :)

Scott.

For a female animator or programmer that needs accomodation I will pay them a large percentage of profit shares and $200 per week cash plus cover all living expenses at my central office\house in riverwood near all amneties including Mcdonalds, Kfc, Oportos, Subway and many other shops. They would have to share with the new designer\project manager and would have access to a twin turbo mitsubishi gto.

So now you're trying to score too? Looking for a threesome with a sexy project manager?

$200/week is less than Centrelink pays a student living at home. It's a pittance.

Your car also sucks. You can't pick up chicks in a car like that.

Someone, please, kill this thread!

Whats this got to do with dating I object to your dirty minded head. Go back under the rock you crawled from. Please delete these last two posts.

It's a list of users on sumea. I.e. Game developers and potential game developers.

It's a memberlist page that shows a few member related stuff. We used to have this on the old site.

Also, if you're not showing up on the list and you want to, you need to make sure that:

1. You've selected Australia or New Zealand as your country.

2. If you've selected Australia, you need to put down NSW, VIC, or QLD as your state/province. In fact, if you're from say NSW, type in N and let the textbox autofill it for you so it puts in the correct tag.

The memberslist for that page gets updated once a day, so changes aren't immediate.

It didn't put me on yet.. I might have to wait a few more hours...

I just checked the log, and just remembered that I changed this to weekly. No need for it to update the entire list once every day! Last update was on the 9th so it's scheduled to update next Monday.

Ok, just wait then..

I'm not a fan of the blender interface but if you're just going to create primitives and drop in a light or two it will work fine.

Years ago I spent a long time looking for a good free 3D app, but most were (as the other guy said) just good for primitives and lights. I don't think it's fair to say that about Blender.

A lot of people who have experience with other proggies don't like Blender because it has a very non-standard interface. Yes, its interface differs from other apps and it a total bitch to learn if you're used to another 3D app, but for those who have learned it, it's very efficient. I think of it like learning to drive a sports car - it's touchy and easy to stall, but that's because once you learn to drive it you fly!

Blender has many of the features of full apps - excellent mesh modelling tools (it even supports mesh sculpting ala Zbrush), edit stacks, outstanding UV mapping tools, good mesh animation features, excellent extensibility, etc. In fact, I'd say that if you can't get your hands on Max and you are looking for a free app then you can learn all you need to with Blender. You can follow any good general modelling tutorial using Blender because it supports all the typical mesh modelling bits and pieces.

It's a lot more than primitives and lights. Take a look at some of the gallery images. Not many primitives there.

Not only is it free, it's open source, cross platform (Linux: check, Mac: check, Windows: check). It's a small download (9MB for Windows, to 22MB for OS X). It's also extensible through Python scripting, which means that it has importers and exporters for lots of 3D file formats.

Okay, I love Blender. I'm not saying it's a Max killer, but it's outstanding for an open source project. I might even choose to use it over Max in some situations. I'd certainly say it was silly to drive by a 9MB download to miss out on one of the best open source apps (not just 3d) out there at the moment.

I agree. I have switched to Blender after working for a few years in Maya and now, taking part in many 3d contests and living out of 3d I do not feel that I have a worse starting position because of software I am using. It offers enough tools to allow to do anything you want- but with usual "if you know how to move around". Same is true for any other application, 3d or not. Sure, it is HORRIBLE to learn but after first week of tears and pain you should be able to move in it with ease.

Here are two samples of recent Blender projects:

Animation (in so popular Pixar-like style)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE7VzlLtp-4

and a game, built using Blender and based on built-in game engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Canbxj0RBTk

Looks like blender might be the free app of choice for serious modelers.

After a bit more research I've decided to give Google Sketchup at try. I'm hoping it will be super simple and fast interface to learn. I fear Blender will be massive over kill for what I need/want and potentially too advanced and confusing for my nil modeling experience. If Sketchup works out and i hit its limits I could upgrade to Blender.

Designers at Krome use Google Sketchup (at least the melbourne guys do) todo basic level design in the inital stages, then the artists get the models and make them pretty.

Showing growth within your work can be beneficial but I disagree with the idea of showing growth in a portfolio. There are more appropriate places to do this such as blogs, forums and sketchbooks(being the traditional place to show this type of stuff, always take your sketchbook to interviews!). A portfolio is a chance to show a bit of self-art-direction too. If you include work that has glaring deficiencies it might be an indication that you struggle to effectively criticize your own work.

Choosing what is 'best work' is no walk in the park though. It is both subjective and dependent on the purpose of the art/design too. A good portfolio could well include fast visualisation techniques, B&W tonal studies, colour studies as well as polished pieces.

I think most people will agree it really is difficult to objectively select your own best work. It's a process I am once again struggling with as I am in the midst of redesigning my website that will include a gallery of illustration and design samples.

I tend to agree with JohnN.

This is just my opinion and I'm not saying it is right, but putting in old 'bad' pieces of work to show development would be a mistake. Just showing your best and most recent work should demonstrate an ability and willingness to learn in itself. I mean, if you can produce a brilliant design doc/demo/3d model etc, it would only be assumed that you have put in the hours and the effort to learn. I mean, it doesn't matter how brilliant you are, you're not going to be a master of 3ds Max straight away.

As John said, there are other ways to show your development and learning capabilities; on your website for example. Here is where you should show an expanded collection of your work and information about yourself, your folio is only for your very best pieces to get people interested. When you have their attention they might decide to look over your website and read about your theories on game development or whatever.

When your at interview you can use examples of comparing your first design doc to your third one or whatever to explain how you have improved, the methods you followed to get better etc.

Well, the general consensus that I gathered from the article I put up about portfolios in 2004 is that you shouldn't show your bad work at all. The link and the relevant comments below...

http://www.tsumea.com/australasia/australia/news/010404/industry-portfo…

From the people who will be looking over your portfolio submissions (well, back in 2004 anyway!)

Steve Stamatiadis, Creative Director, Krome

What do you NOT want to see in a portfolio?
I don't want to see every piece of art you've ever done from pre-school through to current day.
I don't want to see concept art if you can't draw.
I don't want to see anything you aren't sure is good. Chances are if you don't like it, we won't like it.

Ben Lee, Art Director, Irrational Games Canberra (no longer there, however)

I don't want to see everything you've done good and bad.. just the good stuff. If you think something is not your best work , don't include it. I don't care what music is on a reel because I never listen to it. It's irrelevant. All I want to see is relevant examples of your work. 'funky' camera cuts, music , repetition of the same thing over and over.. 'jokes' .. None of it matters and just makes watching the reel a chore.

John Sheils, Creative Director for Sidhe Interactive
Poor or lack of 2d artistic skills / Drawing / Perspective / Design / colour Theory

Alister Lockhart, Art Director, when he was at Micro Forte
What should I NOT put in my portfolio?
Very often, promising artists will damage their chances of being noticed by burying their best work amongst large amounts of superfluous crapola.
Hot Tip #2: DON'T PAD THE JOB

Your portfolio should contain only those samples of your work that showcase your talent in its best possible light. Even if the amount of work you have to show may be light, padding out your material with samples you're not really all that proud of, for the sake of volume, is a bad idea.

I'm not really qualified to say this,

But I get the impression that recruiters will look at your folio from a perspective of "Does this applicant know what is good and what is bad"? If you include bad work in what is supposed to be a body of work that shows your best, then some will take it as a sign that you think that your bad work is acceptable, and therefore don't know what you are doing.

Slightly off topic, Alister is now with us at Infinite Interactive (been here before, went away, came back again).

You should post this in the news scoop section. Make sure you add the deadline date so that it appears in the What's On list..

Posted into the scoops section.

*Strokes non-existent beard*

Guess I should have a look over these in a bit. Might give me a better grasp of the indie game project we're starting up. Some do look quite cool, others look...well there's always something "meh" to someone.

Hello. I´m Caio, from Mother Gaia Studio. I´m here to let you know that there´s a brand new version of City Rain BS on Direct 2Drive ( http://www.direct2drive.com/buy-indie-games-download ). There´s also a free demo version to play online at Kongregate flash portal ( http://www.kongregate.com/games/mothergaiastudio/city-rain-bs) and screenshots, videos and stuff at our official web site ( www.cityrainbs.com )
I hope you like it

Best regards.

I checked out Unity 3D a while ago, and it seems awesome (particularly now since it can export to iPhone). Unfortunately, I couldn't try it out though because it's Mac only. They should bring the suite to the PC platform!

Well, If you want an all in one compile to anything program just wait a little while and get roket3d! It runs on Mac, Windows and Linux! Woo! Alpha 0.4 is available too! Link!

So.. yeah.

Unity is coming to PC with the 2.5 release. Think it's the next one, so I guess in a couple of months. I might start using it in Windows as that's the only place I can have Max.

Rocket sounds interesting. The thing I like the most with Unity is that you can run it in a browser. Easier to reach a wider audience. The plugin is spreading like wildfire.

Cheers.
M.

these guys from the IGDA forum had a meetup just early December (I was overseas during that time so just found about it now), but if you're interested follow this thread for any more updates.

http://www.igda.org/Forums/showthread.php?threadid=33886

if only unity wasn't so expensive!

It's not so bad at 199 USD for the indie version. Okey there are some feautures in Pro (1399 USD) that I would really like to have, but they are really small in the big picture. It's mostly effects like DOF, Reflection and Refraction and motion blur. I can live without publishing to windows standalone(os x works in indie) other then that there is close to no difference, at least for me.

Okey the other packages are free (if your not counting any Adobe Flash or Shockwave that have some similarities) but then again they don't have a browser plugin. Or is there any other package? I would love to see someone like Autodesk do this but imagine the price.

Publishing to PC would be a good feature that i would want to have. eg. sending your little demo or whatever to people. i don't know many people with macs. esp. in the games industry.

And if you wanted to publish to Iphone, which to me is a big feature, it's an extra $399 or something.

The pricing for Roket3D is going to be:

Basic = Free

Personal = $50

Indie/Small Company (4 computer license) = $150

Academic (30 computer license) = $3000

Enterprise (30 computer license) = $5000

Prices are in Australian Dollars (AUD).

Notes:

You cannot sell games with Basic or Academic though you can still share them on Roket-Games. Using the YAIPP system your games will be able to be ran straight from a browser. You can also implement the YAIPP plugin on other sites to host your games.

Academic and Enterprise edition each come with RoketServer included and free upgrades to versions 2 & 3.

RoketServer manages projects and can host multiplayer servers. It also stores all game files on a central computer and only allows access from any computer (with Roket3D installed) by providing a login username and password. It also functions as a chat for the developers connected to the server and also allows for advanced project management.

Roket3D can compile games to run on Windows, Mac and Linux without changing any code and this will soon extend to consoles. It will also have an integrated physics engine and extension management to allow for a collaborative development and ease of use through extension sharing.

Learn more at Roket3D.com

Another forum post may have been a better option.

From the results shown on the webpage it seems very much a hobbyist engine. It doesn't have anywhere near the features to justify $5000 etc.

This is not a attack on you directly Sabre070 because I notice you been pretty enthuisatic about the games industry etc. I just feel you should devote it as a hobby engine, because to make a successful engine that people would pay lot of money for, would require a lot and lot of man hours and support.

It probably would have.. But I'm not making it, my friend is. If it doesn't sell then we don't really care, we are just going to be using it to make our games anyway.

The engine justifies $5000 for enterprise editions. You don't have to pay royalties per game sold and you get free upgrades to major versions 2 and 3. It comes with RoketServer as well.

Remember that this is only for enterprise environments, so $5000 is nothing. Indie developers use the Basic, Personal or Indie Team editions.

Hi Mikkel, did you make any progress with meeting up for unity 3d workshops etc ?

I am working on a game and would like to meetup likeminded people in the Sydney area.

ive been using blender 3d and unity 3d free to attempt to make a game...

could do with speaking to someone else who is going through learning these products.

cheers,

John

There's a Sydney Unity Users Group happening on Facebook that you might want to check out. They're having their second meet up soon. Here are the details:

Time: 12 July · 18:00 - 21:00

Location :
Australian Film Television & Radio School (AFTRS)
For: Sydney Unity User Group

6:00 - 8:00 'Show and tell' minitalks in Teaching room 6
8:00 - close Drinks at Bavarian Bier Cafe

Proposing the above format but anyone feel free to pitch in.

Ian Brown has kindly booked us a room with projector so we can do some show and tell and spill less beer on laptops (that can happen after!).

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=129411667139945

And of course, there's the IGDA Sydney chapter which consist of a whole lot of students and indie developers who I'm sure many of which are using Unity (who isn't these days!). Their Facebook group is at:

https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_38132449086

I missed that... any future events planned?

I have NO idea

Full Throttle? that's waaaaaaay old school though

i think most games have either orchestral or annoying electronic music :) heh

Going back a few years, you've got games like Killer Instinct (the arcade original, not the watered-down snes port) and Mortal Kombat Trilogy (look for the PS1 or PC version) that used rock-style music reasonably well. More recently I can think of Prince of Persia: Warrior Within (even though most reviewers didn't like the music in that game because it didn't fit the series) and as much as I despise them, most of the Wrestling games have original rock music soundtracks so just pick one of the 10 billion or so of those. The Unreal Tournament series has also traditionally had a rock-ish music selection in it. Stuff like Tony Hawk and Project Gotham Racing also feature rock soundtracks although I haven't kept up with either series recently so dunno whether they've switched to just using licensed music now...might be worth looking into. If you'd allow me to "bend the rules" a little - Guitar Hero 3 features several original rock recordings, written specifically for the game, that are used for the "battles" in career mode. Another game that springs to mind is the Grand Theft Auto series though I dunno how much of that soundtrack you'd consider rock.

Hope that at least gives you some places to get started.

now THAT's a response heh

Everyday Shooter. pew pew pew

Thanks, nice responce :)

destruction derby 2 had a lot of rock music

I've toyed around with the same idea Souri. I occasionally get fired up and look into making a table-top style one (I think they are called cocktail cabinets). It would be an awesome casual gaming setup in my mind.

These look a little cheaper than the one you showed, Souri... And I think you can put multiple games in some of them, although I haven't really looked into it (merely day-dreamed):

http://www.megaamusements.com.au/index.php?x=sales

They have DIY cocktail cabinets here:

http://www.classicgames.com.au/

And this is a cheap stand-up DIY that looks a little dodgey, but could float some people's boats:

http://www.highway.net.au/parts/arcade_cabinets/9621_1.html

Oh, to have the money, space, and marital freedom to set up some arcade machines...

Cheers,
Jarrod

A man goes to knowledge as he goes to war, wide awake, with fear, with respect, and with absolute assurance. - The Teachings of Don Juan

i have a mame low-bow arcade cabinet..

they are awsome and a smash hit at any party..

but im not talking to mine currently cos it gave me 240 volts..

be carefull with the monitors in them... they can be nasty

and damn!! even with unlimited credits i have not been able to finish ghost and gouls (or is it ghosts and goblins..can never remember)

I have a spare desktop computer (with only one joypad) which I'm using as a Mame machine. I just need 3 more joypads, but these things don't seem to last very long >:(... I'm going for cheap and not building a cabinet. I'm placing it on a small desk with some comfy sofas instead, and it seems to be working out fine :D

Ghouls and ghosts would be the hard one. I think the PSP version is notoriously difficult, and has dishearted many a Ghost 'n Goblins fan. Ghost 'n Goblins is/was easy. I got to the final two demons on one credit back in the day.

I read that CRT monitors should be treated with great caution at all times. They apparently have capacitors that retain dangerous levels of charge well after the monitor has been disconnected from a power source!

I always sucked at Ghosts & Goblins... Must have lacked some basic tactic or skill.

Oops, forgot to include the details of the protest events:



Melbourne Protest
Date: Saturday 13th of December
Time: 12:00pm - 4:00pm
Location: Outside the State Library, corner of Swanston St and La Trobe St.
Facebook event: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=46838735931



Brisbane Protest:
Date: Saturday 13th of December
Time: 11:00am - 3:00pm
Location: Brisbane Square
Facebook event: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=42526399601



Sydney Protest:
Date: Saturday 13th of December
Location: Town Hall Square, George Street
Time: 11:00am - 3:00pm
Facebook event: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=49916537640



Adelaide Protest:
Date: Saturday 13th of December
Location: Parliament House
Time: 12:00pm - 4:00pm
Facebook event: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=39343300875



Hobart Protest:
Date: Saturday 13th of December
Location: Parliament Lawns
Time: 11:00am - 1:30pm
Facebook event: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=39329861995



Perth Protest:
Date: Saturday 13th of December
Location: Stirling Gardens
Time: 12:00pm - 3:00pm
Facebook event: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=45738419714

I'll be at the protest and I hope anyone who doesn't want to submit to government control will too.

Don't think you can opt-out of this. The 2nd filter will still be there slowing everything down just as much. Still filtering legal but "unwanted content" and returning false positives.

Stop the book burning.

Any parent who supports government intervention into their own home is admitting their ineptitude as a parent.

To Draconian Governments, Australia Says NO

Thanks for the info and heads-up. I think this is an even bigger issue than that R rating we're all so dearly fighting for.

I'm not the marching/chanting/protesting type, but I'm definitely going to this one, if only to add one more body to the crowd. Tell your friends!

4chan is going mental with this. Count me in.

Ohh good thing you posted or i wouldn't of known about the protest !
Ill be there !

Why isn't there a protest in Canberra?

Or is everyone a legit porn buyer here, so they don't use the internet?

porn on the internet is often legit...

it's just people normally get by on the free samples :P

still rather odd that there is no protest in canberra though. lets all go sit on top of parliament house.

Canberra:
13th of December
12pm-2:00pm
City Walk (near the fountain outside of Canberra Centre), Civic

http://nocensorship.info/main/?p=366

Either people are too shy or mostly lurking. There have to be many indie groups around that would jump and take your offer. Do you have any music of your music that you can show?

Yes, please post some music of your music!

Thanks, i'll upload some tracks for anybody interested next week.

Hello

I uploaded some streaming music this morning

The songs you will find are:

Industrial Metal
An "extreme" grungy industrial song for a high action game, such as a zombie first person shooter etc.

Eerie Puzzle
Mysterious themed modern electronica, with bit crushed drums, piano & Roland TB-303

Horror
Scary ambient music for a thrilling moment in a game - dreading something awful - mother alien etc.

Feel free to send constructive critism

sorry, I admit I did lurk through this thread a while ago without saying hi. ...Hi!

Keep posting links when you upload new tracks too, it's a nice change of pace from browsing 3d models.

Cool hello!

Alright sounds like a good idea, will do :)

Saying hi.

Good to see a sound designer, I haven't listened to your work but I might give it an ear tuning a bit later.

And I wasn't lurking or shy, I just seem to forget to visit these forums enough.

I usually don't but those guys playing starcraft! Geez! I hate powergamers but if I was versing them I wouldn't play..

(What I consider a power gamer is someone that uses the hotkeys :P)

But, I usually beat powergamers.. Just I don't think I would beat them..

I tried to stream some of the Starcraft broadcasts via my Gom player, but it seems my "broadband" connection is too damn slow, so it pauses every 3 minutes for a minute at a time, making it impossible to view. I do watch some of the matches on youtube though, and it's highly entertaining stuff. As a Starcraft fan however, I would be too chicken shit to play any of those guys. They're just leagues and leagues beyond my capabilities, and as much as I love Starcraft, I really do suck at it. My basic strategy is to build as much defences as possible and "wait it out". XD

It's interesting that you bring up this topic though, as I find myself watching more and more games than playing them in recent times. I wrote a topic in the forum here ages ago about people in my predicament - those who love games but just don't have the time or the money to play them all, and whether there is a market to cater them where you can just view whole game experiences on DVD. This was before the whole youTube / video streaming thing got popular however, but youTube is filling up that void nicely for me. There are a few folks like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/user/cubex55

..who upload entire walkthroughs and gaming experiences. I've finished Metal Gear Solid 1 and 2 on the PSX and PS2, and since I don't have a PS3, I watched the entire Metal Gear Solid 4 on youTube - incidently Konami got the user who uploaded those videos suspended for it. Anyway, this Cubex55 person has just uploaded an entire walkthrough of Metal Gear Solid 4, so it'll be interesting to see if Konami go after him as well. I hope they don't, I'm not through the Metal Gear Solid 3 walkthrough yet!

I've found that the lag experienced with the Gom player is more to do with their end rather than ours. I believe that the english commentary is streamed from the west coast of the USA. Last Sunday it was good, almost no laggy bits, but the weekend before that there was lots of lag, unwatchable.

I can sit down and watch a couple of pros play soccer on css, but if its something like watching my girlfriends brother playing any game, then i usually get too frustrated (cos he sucks).
But yeah we all like watching people do what they're good at, i know i do.

Well, I am currently looking for entry into the industry. I had a job for a bit, but then the project was cancelled so now I am back to looking from outside in.

For me, I don't care about the pay, I just want experience so I can establish a career. I guess people like me don't help your cause much... it is a popular industry, and the more people who want to join, the less they can pay.

As for already established people like (i assume) your good self... I suppose they can pay what they do because people are willing to accept it. If they weren’t, then I imagine wages would go up and studios would close. The fact we are 'cheap' is one of the industry in Australia's strengths too... which means higher wages would not help the cause.

I've come across this question many times over the years - particularly on places like Slashdot in regards to programmer wages in the games industry, and the most common answers I've found are usually this... (note: I'm not agreeing with all of them, but these responses are the ones I've consistently found when it comes to questioning game dev wages).

1. Don't work in the games industry if you want to make bucket loads of cash. There are much easier, laid back and better paid 9-to-5 programmer jobs where you do things like develop and maintain applications for companies, but as you could imagine, it's not terribly exciting work. Same deal with working in advertising etc Game development is however, a lot more stimulating and rewarding career than those kind of jobs. Having said that, programmers are generally the highest paid talent in game development.

2. When there are so many people vying to get into the workforce, many of whom are willing to put up with lower pay, then it's hard for companies to offer competitive salaries when they know that talent are banging on their doors for cheaper.

Actually, one of my friends is a lead / senior programmer, and he does pretty well. My other programmer friend who has since left the games industry is working as a .net programmer, and I'm pretty sure he is bored off his nut as he's a pretty damn talented coder.

Anyway, I remember reading some salary stats that artists and programmers in U.S compiled a while ago that I think was conducted by the IGDA, and game devs don't do that bad in terms of wages if you've been in the industry for a few years. Here it is:

http://wii.spong.com/article/15209/US_Video_Game_Developer_Wages_Reveal…

You can't compare local wages to that overseas however, but if you think the wages here are low, you need to factor things like cost of living, rent etc.

Anyway, I realise that I probably haven't answered your question and spewed stuff that you already know, but I agree that Experienced/Senior/Lead talent wages should be competitive (if that isn't the case). With the local industry with such a shortfall of experienced talent, it makes sense that there is a financial incentive to keep talent. Can I ask what sort of salary you were offered? (don't mention the studio though, however).

In the USA, there's developers who have won "best workplace" awards (and thus have great retention rates), so the traditional myth that the games industry *has* to be exploitive of staff isn't valid any more.

I'm currently in another (traditionally well paying) industry, but even though I am on decent money, I *still* feel exploited.
Yes there is always a tin of Nescafe in the kitchen, and I get one piece of fruit on a Wednesday (if I run to the fruit box before everyone else) - but that is about as far as "caring for staff" goes in this place. No one knows what it is that I do, and no one cares. I've watched 10 "man years" of work be thrown away as a token gesture to share-holders, which is pretty bad for morale.

I actually long to go back to the games industry just so I feel like my work is valued (by myself, by co-workers and by management) even if that does mean taking a pay-cut and giving up my weekly banana...

What I'm trying to get at is that companies are complaining about retention and yet there seems to be no incentive to stay. At the minute there's a glut of talent on the market looking for places and so there's even less room for good salary negotiation. So these people will get work no doubt but how many will be struggling to justify staying "in the community"? How many will be looking for higher pay and better conditions 3, 6, 9 months from now? Now, I've been in the industry a fair while and I've seen starting salaries for juniors improve somewhat. However, we still do unpaid overtime, not just little bits here and there which might be accepted us unforseen circumstances in the planning stage but rather repeated constant overtime on schedules that obviously have the 'extra' time factored in by management.

To Answer your question Souri. I had 4 years experience in games when I applied to this company and they offered me 30k. It would have been 3 years ago I guess. I am by no stretch of the imagination a bad artist. My work history was and is solid. The guy was being tight, I think he was only paying his lead 45k.

Hmm, I work for a game company, and we get fruit! It took a few months of staff meetings, but eventually, we gots fruits!

Yeah, that's pretty well known in the industry. I worked at sony london when Killzone 1 was in production and yes it was pre-rendered. Also the, now canned, Getaway 3 and 8 days trailers were completely pre-rendered as well. Actually 8 Days was put together by Sony Imageworks

Listen to Phil's Dialogue though he never actually says this is "in game" footage, he was happy to let you think it was though:)

It's false advertising on Sony's part, and I find it disgusting.

They knew that a lot of consumers were going to be mistaken that it was either in-game or an accurate representation of how in-game was going to look.

Sony obviously thinks we're fools.

hahah - i'm hardly surprised Duke Nukem didn't make the list ;)

almost everything i can think of already HAS A sequel ... *sigh* and lots of the sequels SUCK.

Duke Nukem 3D came out in 1996, which was roughly when I got my first PC (I held onto my Amiga 500 and 1200 for way too long!), and I mainly used it for college. It was pretty underpowered for 3D games, so I missed most of PC gaming until about 98 and 99 when Starcraft and Counterstrike came about. So yeh, I bypassed all the Duke Nukem hooplah. I've still never played it so I don't even know what made it so popular.

Jill of the jungle reborn X 1000
=
Epic win

yay i remember that from back in the days of 'shareware' catalogs and things like that. Craziness !

But haven't we kind of already got a spritual progeny of that in Tomb Raider ? Well, i suppose not quite ...

'im gunna kick you in the nuts' and 'i've heard you ain't been getting nun? (to a nun in bondage gear)

.... thats what i liked about the duke nukem series.... freakin most fun multiplayer ever..

...with an idle animation that where he checks him self out every time you stand in front of a mirror..

Jet Set Willy
Manic Mansion
Smash TV
Wings
Paperboy

Hell yeah Souri.

Amiga 1200 brings good memories.

the sequel to Maniac Mansion was called Day of the Tentacle.

Oh k thanks i didn't know that! I'll need to get an emulator happening.

woops Jet Set Willy/maniac mansion etc was me

yea and the whole morphing into animals/creatures is done nowadays as well, but its not THE jill XD

Sadly most things I know already have a sequel. If I had a bajillion dollars I'd start a company and make my own IP, why bother with a sequel when it's going to come out one day anyway.

For reference: I miss Busby and Donkey Kong who hasn't had a "real" sequel since DK64.

Here's one wish come true for you Souri :P

"Ultimate Bruce Lee is a remake of the Commodore 64 platformer with updated graphics, new gameplay modes, unlockable extras, and the original 1984 release recreated faithfully to please fans of all things retro."

http://www.indiegames.com/features/index.php?c=re&y=2008&gid=7

I wish there were 5 sequels to the Neverhood.

I'd like to see:

Paradroid - robots are just awesome fun, would love to see the robots in full, rather than just the number designation shown on the C64 (as a kid it was easy enough to imagine them all, though)

R-Type - I'd like a combat flight sim game, with all of the power-ups and landscapes included.

Turrican - in the style of GoW, mebbe.

Wizball - this was such an original game, I don't know how I'd like to see this done... maybe just update it with lovely 3D.

Operation Wolf/Thunderbolt - Lost many coins to this beastie as a kid, lotsa fast paced machine action with no letting-up.

Cheers,
Jarrod

A man goes to knowledge as he goes to war, wide awake, with fear, with respect, and with absolute assurance. - The Teachings of Don Juan

This has been the same thing with books and movies, where they can be easily resold after the initial purchase. Perhaps then the solution for games is not to remove the ability to resell them, but rather make the initial sale price so cheap it won't be economically viable to resell the games? I mean who would by a used game for $20-$30 when the original game sells for that much?

I hate the idea of downloadable content.

Australia isn't like America. We don't have unlimited internet. i don't want to have to download heaps of content.

A game designer has put forward some arguments for the secondary games market, and you know, he actually has some great points.

http://www.designer-notes.com/?p=111

I find it interesting how game developers seem to know so little about economics and the nature of business. As leaders of their businesses, they need to understand that a second-hand market legitimises new purchases, and that ownership should remain transferrable.

Sure, it's shit when places like EB Games and places Gamestop in the US institutionalise second-hand trading, but that's what preferential retail channels are for.

Whoa! Thats awesome! Its like a simplistic version of photoshop but online! :O
Its a shame it doesnt pick up pen pressure but still awesome!

I'd say Adobe would be crapping their pants over something like this, but they've been working on an online version of Photoshop for a while now already. I guess what Sumo Paint does show is that the idea of an online paint application is already realised and here right now. Heck, it's got all the basic functionality down pat and you can even save your work too (onto your hd or their space).

With the popularity of netbooks and optimisations being made on browsers for web applications, we're edging closer and closer to cloud computing.

I think it might have loaded faster than Photoshop too ;)

here is another group doing a whole suite of graphics programs.

http://a.viary.com/

I haven't looked into Avairy or Sumo in any real detail yet. I'm sort of in two minds about the flash graphics application concept on the whole, it seems like you are just downloading the app each time you run it (why not download it and save it). But it's free and you can potentially access them from any internet connected computer which I think is pretty cool/ potentially useful.

I'm also quite demanding with application functionality so I'm probably not the audience these things are primarily made for, hence my lack of enthusiasm.

wooo that's sweet as bro

Hmm, I'll give it a shot... I -think- I've got a rough idea of what you're describing.
I've never worked on a project like the one you're describing, so these figures might be totally off but here's my guesstimate:

To get it complete and polished will take 6-12months (full time and assuming the specifications don't change much), half of that time being polishing. Developing a prototype of your game would take about a month in XNA for example.

You'll need 1-2 programmers. given it sounds like a flash application I'd suggest getting people who can demonstrate prior work in flash (especially with networking).

Probably, one artist should be enough. As long as they can handle doing concept/3d modeling/animation or whatever else you might need themselves.

You'll need a designer (or one of your programmers or artists can take the role but only if they are -very- competent in this field).

And finally you'll need someone who can make a website for the thing (especially if it is a flash app) and after it's gone live it will need some people to maintain it. Probably a part-time DB admin and a programmer that can be called in if things break.

If it's like what you described I don't see much appeal.
But you said it's not so I can't offer anything.

It's like... drawball with chat?

THank you kindly.

Creepy