Game Engine

1000 poly?s for a knife? That?s a bit overkill isn?t it?

?designed to support 100+ players in expansive environments? ? with player model poly counts 8000 to 10000 ? [:0] whoa?

It?s no wonder they say ?advisable for teams to initially target their models to be 75-80% of the stated recommendations?

lol yer ... it would wanna be a very nice looking knife

maybe it's a swiss army knife, 1000 polys got to be enough

I can do a pretty kick ass knife with 2 intersecting polygons.

I personally don't think 2D is dead... dying , very slowly, maybe but certainly not dead...

I have recently got back into my Super Nintendo and I can sit on that thing for hours playing 2D games like:

Donkey Kong Country
Yoshi's Island
BattleToads
etc, etc...

I can play any of these games much longer than I can sit and play any 3D game I own...

I think that the quality of 2D games gameplay wise was much higher back when those games were out...someone just needs to bring back that quality...[:D]

That said, with unique games like Gish and such, I think 2D gaming will be around for a while longer... [8D]

2D will never die as long as their are portable consoles with small screens. It will also stay well alive in the small PC markets, however i think for decent commercial releases on PC/console it will start to find itself confined to puzzle games and fighting games.
CYer, Blitz

I actually checked out a bit of Alien Hominid by chance today, and it looks really great. It was good to see that they were putting in a lot of fun things to do like driving vehicles, special moves, and other things rather than a bog standard sideway scroller. The animation and explosions are great!

If anyone has a cable connection and they wanna check out Alien Hominid (chat with the animators and developers on how things got started, a tour of their small studio, and a great look at the game), go to http://www.gamespot.com/onthespot/ and click on the streaming media for 07/29/04 .. - I've been watching a lot of the streams at http://www.gamespot.com/onthespot/ - it's so much better watching reviewers talk about the games and see footage as they talk rather than reading about it on a webpage. Plus they do tonne of developer interviews and studio walthroughs too..

Just a note on that particular stream - there were about 3 or 4 other *new* games of a 2D nature that they were reviewing in there. Apart from Alien Hominid, they were all from Japan. It seems 2D games is still alive and kicking over there, from side way scrolling beat'em ups (Viewtiful Joe), fighting games (Samurai Showdown 5, Guilty Gear), and I'm sure 2D sideway/vertical scrolling shoot'em ups are still very popular there too..

Just to add, 2D games got a pretty hefty blow when Sony limited most things 2D from being released on the PS2..

Yeah, but it turned out to be a smart marketing strategy. Most people these days don?t look twice at a title if it isn?t 3D.

Perhaps this will change their mind ^_^ once you see the things you can pull off in this game, you become hypnotised. My workmate is buying a gamecube just so he can get AH. [:D]

quote:Originally posted by palantir

Yeah, but it turned out to be a smart marketing strategy. Most people these days don?t look twice at a title if it isn?t 3D.

maybe the reason why people don't look twice at a title if it is not 3d is because 3d is all they know as that's what's being shoved down their throats by the marketing people =)

2d might be dead on consoles, but they still have 3d games that play like 2d games (constriction of the z-axis).
like crash bandicoot or something similar.

the new fighting games that have 3d backgrounds look awsome! the old franchises have kept their characters 2d tho, maybe that because they are justing using old sprites?

hmm... do you guys think its easier to make, say a platformer, with sprites, or 3d models? in reality of it, its still just bounding boxes flying around a screen, in either 2d or 3d.

I think a new type of 2d game will evolve from this all. One that combines the traditional gameplay elements from 2d games and brings it into a 3d setting, or uses 3d technology to give it more oompth. Think Duke Nukem Manhattan project, or something such as a platformer using a 2d foreground and characters (taken from highly detailed 3d models) and put them into a 2d parralax world that's actually coded in 3d. Or something like TA, that used 2d background graphics, along with 3d data and units to create a highly detailed believable 3d world.

Nothing really ever dies, it just evolves and/or becomes a very (small) niche market.

ive personally always really loved the look and style of 2d over most 3d games. daemin i think paper mario does something sorta like that as well and it has been pretty highly praised.

well the shift to 3d powered handhelds will make things interesting. 3D is even making it into phones these days.. but for the next little while specs like MIDP v2 and BREW mean that 2d will be very well represented for the near future at least

how much 3d will we really find on these things (phones)? particle effects? freeform sprite rotation and scaling (sadly missing from MIDP v2)? kinda reminds me of the SNES era all over again :D

Matt D

Yeah, the publishers like mobile phones, because they're the same as the console platforms of yore, and they can use the same IP and same art - just different code - to produce classic games for a new market, thus more revenue for essentially very little effort.

the reason people forgot about 2d was because it's so easy to market for 3d... for example the first wave could be like "LOOK AT THIS 3D GAMES!!! REAL 3D! FORGET 2D! THIS CONSOLE IS THE FUTURE BUY IT NOW!!!"
and the current ones "WOW EVEN BETTER 3D THIS IS MORE FUTURISTIC THAN EVER! IT MAY BE THE SAME REHASHED GAMEPLAY BUT JUST LOOK AT THE POLY COUNT!"[B)]

biggest shame was when worms went 3d... vector is the next step for 2d!!! they did it because there is a bigger market for 3d games, but there is also a bigger market for real time games! so i bet when they run out of ideas they will make it real time[V]

2D is my fave scene =)

man i would luv to join in this so much. But im freaken tied down with 2 other games that will take a good half year or so (damn work). When were u expecting to start this?

Heya Skribble - its already begun! The flash prototype is at about 40% completion and will be up on the website for playing as soon as we get it near completion [:D]

Any updates on how this project is going? I know how tough it is to get volunteers for a collaboration going, but the project sounds pretty cool. It's interesting that you're doing a flash prototype - couldn't that itself be turned into the final game and be made for online play?
I've been wanting to do an online flash rpg for years (well, actually more like an online Harvest Moon), but that would seriously take up more time than I already have [:(]

Souri : Weve just got the user accounts / save-load games all setup - and are now smoothing out some collision problems, weve just finished adding in the last of the particle effects, just the short flash intro and the dialogue to go and the first little playable demo will be up and running for all to have a stab at, bare in mind that its uber short - basically one little area to run around and fight stuff in and one little town to buy stuff - replenish your health etc etc [:D]

And yeah it will be online play only ( with the flash prototype )

There are however some pretty crazy plans for it..... will see how people like the first little bit!

hi.. some ppl have previously called me a 2D spriter & coder.. (so i gave them a whack..) uhh.. what i mean is, i love rpg's and i'd like to help if i may..? what tool u using to develop? ..or is it C+ or sumfink?

Hiya Sub - welcome to the forum [:)]

We are using c++ to develop the 'engine' and tools and gale / photoshop for pixelation - If your up for getting gritty let me know and ill send you some more details.

i've been making most of my sprites in the basic paint program.. i downloaded that project dogwaffle free gfx tool but.. let's just say i can't really make sense of it.. (is that gritty?)

i use a thing called Game-Maker 6.1 to make games.. used qbasic back in the day but since then little coding exp (although i am not bad with GM)

yeh cool.. wanna add me to msn?
>> flavour_injecter@hotmail.com

Ive also used gamemaker - its a cool little tool, I usually mockup all my game ideas in it [:D]
But its extremely limited in functionality if you really want to get into powerful development, and have long term development goals - tool creation is where its at really.

And Gamemaker pretty much takes that side of things away from you - so its not quite fitting for us in this situation - as mentioned above I do however use it to express my ideas ( albeit very basically )to the programmer [:D]

Probably more suited in the Mod / Game collaborations, and game technology section...

I was thinking of doing a web based old bbs-style turn based role playing hack'n'slash game using asp, mysql, and Macromedia Flash a year or two ago, but that would've seriously chewed up my time...

So, should I post there as well? or wait for a moderator to move this post?

Where abouts in Melbourne are you?

codyalday

Flinder st very close to flindr station.

Thanx

What was the first/last game that you and your old team published?
Web links etc. would be nice :)
CYer, Blitz

yeah, you havent told us what your gathering the team together to do, nor given us any examples of what youve done in the past :S

Well,

I'm from Russia. Game that we created was pableshed only in Russia.

It will be too too cool for us if our game will be pablished overseas!

This is some pictures form game that was pableshed and another picture from our second project( that was never pablished, unfortunatly...)

Hi Kortes,
may I know what to do when you united a team? do you have a plan? and, I don't know whether I got the capability to join without seeing your work (although I'm interested in).
please contact me by the following e-mail address
zoelan0898@msn.com

Work experience, need work experience.

Hi :)

Okay this is my first game that was pableshed.
Yes I do, have expireance in making games.

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Gday,

I coudnt send pictures about my second unfinished project(differant format)

But who wonna see pictures I can send to e-mail no probs.
Let me know ok.

Ganerally its RTS.

Thanx

And just general info.

I have plan about creating team.

However, its all depends from people.

their knowledge and so on.

Need sit together and just discuss everything, thats first step.

After we will see...

Hi Kortes

Could you give more details regarding your plan.
What kind of people/skills are you looking for in your team.
Can you discuss what game are you planning?

Also, will this be over the Internet, or a building will be rented, because I really need Work Experience, It is in a Couple Of Weeks Time.

What was the title of the game you had published and the publishers details if you are willing to disclose such information [:D]

for me the most importance message required is that what kind/level of the skill you need.
or can you share an e-mail address so the others can send you some former work for you to see whether they are the right people you are looking for.

Hello every one,

The best way to make game is to live in same location, in same city and so on. We did 60%-70% not through internet. However, There were lots of people who were working with us through internet. I am looking for people who doesnt have any experience but people who realy wonna do this craft.
Or it could be advance people in there fild, if they wonna joining Welcome.
You asked me what game I wonna to do? I am not going to choose what game we going to do. We as a team going to choose what, how, and when.
Before we did our first big project we did lots of smoler one. Becouse we didnt knew what we can and what not. The most important thing is that we wonna to be idependent from pablisher. Creat team is long process. If people wonna break into game indastry as a team, we need practice. Creating smole projects for begin.

About my project. Name is Silence Action. Pablishers company name is GAME-WOLF (its not so famost company in Russia). We did this project working on enthusiasm! No boby paid for us! Main team was consist from 8 people(programmer, programmer, game designer/scenario, 3Dmodeller/texturing, 3Dmodeller, Writer, artist and agein programmer ). And about 5-8 people were working through internet, for some people we did paid. For example their was profesional programmist who did AI for game. Some of us were just beginer but its better than nothing!

Plan about creating team. Theirs nothing new like in all begining team.
First step, to know what can we do and what cant, and to make people to know each ather. Secon step, smole project and so on.

I hope you catched main idea.

E-mail: the-new-world@mail.ru

Kortes,I sent you an email from your profile link did it work?
what's the update on your plan

I might be interested too...

I am currently doing my first year of University, and want some experience working with a team.

I'm a programmer by the way...

Thats good, tale me where you from( witch city and so on)

or just contact me by e-mail

Hi Kortes!

I'm not a programmer, or designer... I'm a composer.

I do live in Sydney however, but am willing to work just for the pride of a nice finished product.

Here in Sydney i have access to top quality recording and sequencing gear, as well as a respectable list of talented musicians.

I can write, and record theme and backing music to match any particular mood, style, era, or instrument and deliver it at professional quality.

If you would like me to create some music for you, just shoot me an Email at nt574@uow.edu.au

Hi Kortes,

Im living in Melb too, and very interested in game making. I worked in a game studio as a 3D modeler and mapper for 3+ yrs, if you need someone like me then pop me an email :)

Cheers!

le_t_t@yahoo.com

Hello Kortes,
How did you go with your team search? Is there any advice that you can give on your experience?

Hello Kortes,

Are you still looking for a team? What kind of experience do you have. Have you played in any leagues? Please reply asap and I will see if I can give you a tryout. Thanks.

Hi, I'm a programmer and have writen an engine that needs a story and design. The thing that seems to be hard to get is artists who want to volunteer. It takes a lot of artists to implement a decent story arc, and they need to be well managed by a designer.

See The post "Collaborative Project In Brisbane" below for more info, but if you're really serious I'd be happy to help you out.

Thanks very much. I have to put a few more things on paper but i'll certainly keep yo in mind. My email is justin@gooncrew.org

Reagards,

Goony

I've always ignored those messages.. not sure why they come up at this stage.. is probably because of reusing static meshes and textures from other maps and stuff

if all goes to play i should be done with my scooter project by october i think, more likly november though. whatever the case i'll be happy to start some work then. i have some ideas for characters and environments and i think we could make this far more attractive than what we had last year (i am so ashamed of that level...)

is there a d/l for the tech dmeo? wouldm't mind checking out what features the engine has.

Also, what are the tools like for level design?

My site is http:\mark.mpglee.com, the "Ballistic Engine Demo" is the most current version of the projet.

Hey dude the engine looks sweet. Im at TAFE at the moment so i cant download the demo but i will when i get home. Im fluent in macromedia flash,animation and actionscript alike so if u want a flash site i would gladly make one up.

Unfortunatly im only a begginer in 3D modeling (which is why im at TAFE) so i cant help out there. [;)]

Just dl and ran your tech demo, good stuff! 4 moths you say?
ive not seen any early engine stuff before so im unsure what to make of it or visualise and end product, but i must say im impressed for a one man job from scratch.
and it seems you already have a great sound man!
There are obvious issues I can point out, but im sure your already aware of them, such as the speed in which the character strafes when in sneak mode.

I am quite interested in contributing as I am in the same situation, trying to get things done for folio work, I am doing 3d modelling and animation at uni here and have been doing level design for Half-life and things for quite some time

fArkus scored himself a job in Melbourne recently so you can probably consider this project scrapped.

hahahahah ok thanks man.

Sounds interesting, although availability would depend on the date of the event...

I would be a good estimation that the professional game development people in Adelaide would be from Ratbag, either current or former employees... So if you would wnat to get many of them then you'd have to pick a date not close to a milestone.

Also how big is your house, and would we be bringing our own computers there? Plus then what would be the temptation of making it a lan instead?

If you'd like to format your enquiry into a news post or have a definate date, I'd be happy to post it up on Sumea news so it'll get some more exposure..

Ack! Sumea ate up my original reply! :)

All of the professional game developers I've talked to or know are Ratbag or ex-Ratbag. I've heard some horror stories, it's quite funny to hear, and made me reconsider whether I even wanted to get into the professional circuit.

The next public holiday in SA (and only public holiday until Christmas) is Labour Day on October 4, so the event would go from October 1-4. Of course you could arrive or leave at any time, but I'd be prepared to have people from the Friday evening until Monday night.

Yes, you would need to bring your own computers.

I've found that when you get enough enthusiastic people together talking about game development, the ideas and opinions tend to flow pretty thick, and that in turn spawns action -- Free Play taught me that. I'm not really worried about it degenerating into a LAN, because no-one (I hope) comes with the intention of turning it into one. Unless everyone likes the same kind of games, the gaming action won't last too long anyhow.

Maybe I'll offer a prize incentive; that seems to work the best.

The ideal situation would be to team up professional and amateur developers together to form teams, so they can share ideas and experience. If I can't get enough pros in, I know enough amateur developers eager for this kind of experience to form a small event.

As to having enough room at my house, it depends on how many people want to turn up. As a rule of thumb, I expect about half the respondents to turn up, but I'll cap the number if I get a deluge of enthusiastic replies. There will be enough furniture for however many turn up, though.

I'm working on an optional theme for the event, too... shouldn't be hard to come up with something interesting.

Cheers,
Paul.

It certainly does...but find me a latest game that doesn't. Farcry, UT2004 etc. All take up tons of space, and it's only going to get worse.

UT2004 has 5 install discs I believe.

or one DVD, it equals about 5 gig of space or something once its on your HD. Personally ive also modded vice city but that was only texture editing, i dont know how to change models (but im pretty sure it can be done).

All modern game modding will require a lot of hard drive space, UT2k4 Install is 5 gig, and modding it would consume only more.

If you want to mod something try the original Unreal Tournament, or perhaps even Quake 3? They require about half a gig of space and you cna use the rest for other peoples mods, and the programs required.

yeah I'm looking into using the ut2004 engine for just what you suggest...
it's reallllly simple to get static meshes in and out of it and create level content.. havent looked at the karma side of things yet...
there are also special tools available on the UDN network to create installs for you mods etc..
..
I'm looking at ways of reducing the install size of ut2004 tooo.. like checking out if mods can run under the demo UT2004.. which is about 180 megs or something....

cool thing as well about using ut.. is that the developer is working backward compatibility into future releases.. so theorically you can reuse any assets you develop

You shouldn't be able to run any mods on the demo version.
Legally, i am guessing you can't, because it would require some modification of the executable (reverse engineering).
However, it's possibly someone has done this, if you can find it :)
CYer, Blitz

Isn't UT2K4 6 Cd's to install, that's why my mate reckons, and also what's a static mesh.

I think i'll have to purchase a new hard drive any way, 20 is not enough these days and you can get an 80 gig for about 150, so i probably will get that first and then get unreal 2004.

yeah 6 cd's.. or a dvd.. I ended up making a dvd install out of the 6 cd's

A static mesh is any mesh that isnt animated, usually static meshes are used to flesh out or populate a bsp brush or level

They can have collision, cast shadows.. etc.. pretty much do anything you want
using static meshes allows you to achieve high poly counts in ut2004

in lamens terms, a static mesh is an object inside the level (i know there are execptions with actors and the like but thats the simplest explanation). Modelled in a 3d program and imported into unrealED

quote:Originally posted by bullet21

I think i'll have to purchase a new hard drive any way, 20 is not enough these days and you can get an 80 gig for about 150, so i probably will get that first and then get unreal 2004.

I got a 160 gig HD for just over $150... make sure you look around!

I just bought UT2K4 today, it was 80 bucks EB, it's 6 Cds and almost 21 minutes worth of installation, Awesome Fun though, i see why Moony is so hyped about it and is addicted. Can you guys point me to a good place to teach me all about creating assets and importing it to the games. I can model the content, but need to know how to export and rig it so it will work properly. THanx.

http://sv1.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/unr_main.php

lo;, how could i forget that, thanx moony :D

Erm have you installed it? I don't know if that will help but all the mods that I have used have required installation...?

yeah... thats where it stumps me... with this example. no install is provided...
but somehow the mod must be registered (registery) in order for it to identify the correct installed key...
this is where it has stumped me.. apparently you have to compile the mod with the UCC executable.. but thats about all I've figured out sofar :s

ehhh.. solved it.. apparently it is alllll in my mind! DOH!

Welcome Suremapper! [:D]

I like what youve done with that little game and the website etc. There should be a few people that would be willing to help you out with the 2d graphics !! Id love to, but we are pretty busy here!

Good Luck!

I've made several Mods for Civ 2 and Civ 3, If you just want some simple 2D graphics to fit your spots.. then sure.. I have them,.. I'd be more than willing to give them to you, if you add my name to your credits.

Only problem I can see.. most of my graphics are 20x20 and 28x28.. and If yours is 320 x 200.,. then your squares are 8x8?

reminds me of 'Hammer of the Gods' :)

quote:Please visit my website to see screenshots...
brings a new meaning to 'screen' shot :P

Two questions

How do you access graphics memory ?

need Address of start of memory (location of address of a 64Mb graphics card)
Any interrupts that need to be initalized for plotting

Any Assembler code like
asm{

mov colour,23 ;colour to plot
mov di,StartofVideoMemory ;plot here
mov [di],colour ;perform plot
}
or
asm{
mov cx,x ;get x coord
mov dx,y ;get y coord
mov ax,PlotMe ;set up interupt for plot

int ax ;perform plot
}
or
the following function
Plot(int x,int y,int color);

How do you access the mouse ?
the following functions
HideMouse();
ShowMouse();
GetXY(int x,int y);

This below is how I currently access 320x200 graphic memory

#include
#include
#include
#include

// address of graphic memory
#define SCREENADDR 0xa0000000L

// point to the start
char far * SCREENPTR = (char far *) SCREENADDR;

int map[8][8]={{1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1},
{1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1},
{1,3,1,1,1,1,5,1},
{1,3,1,4,4,4,5,1},
{1,3,1,1,1,1,5,1},
{1,1,1,1,1,1,5,1},
{1,1,1,6,6,6,6,1},
{1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1}};

int main(void)
{
struct REGPACK reg;
long int x,y,offset;
int i,j,color,k,m;

// change to graphic memory
reg.r_ax = 0x13;
intr(0x10, &reg);

while(1){
for (i=0;i<8;i++){
for (j=0;j<8;j++){
color=map[i][j];
x=i*10;
y=j*10;

for (k=0;k<10;k++){
for (m=0;m<10;m++){
// work out postion of plot
offset=(y+m)*320+x+k;
// copy color to postion
SCREENPTR[offset]=color;
}
}
}
}
}
getch();

// return to normal
reg.r_ax = 0x2;
intr(0x10, &reg);
}

Erm, you're developing for a 64MB video card and you're using assembly - bah, sorry to tell you this but you'll end up rewriting the operating systema nd all of its drivers if you do that. Each graphics card really has its own way of interacting with the video memory, and add to that the different addresses that people have on each system, the different amounts of cache, different AGP speeds. You're in for one hell of a task.

I'd suggest you use something like SDL, or if you want to go lower level try OpenGL or DirectX. There's really no need to go this low level anymore!

As Abrash has said (and I now believe it to be wholeheartedly true) you'll see further if you stand on the shoulders of giants. Which means use tools and libraries that other people have made to increase your productivity.

- Sorry for the rambling, I'm sure someone else will clarify/ramble some more. :-)

I'll take you advice

I have found Basic4GL on the web and will attempt to rewrite from C
to Basic

Well if you want some decent tool to rewrite it in, try BlitzBasic, it costs a bit of money, but from what I've seen it is well worth it and the tools are pretty good.

That and you could use SDL (that seems to be popular), or some form of OpenGL.

Suremapper - if you don't want to rewrite everything, you will need to use the VESA bios extensions (VBE). This will only allow you to access 4MB of video memory, which will be more than enough for what you'll be doing.

The VESA specs are available from [url]http://www.vesa.org/Public/VBE/vbe3.pdf[/url]

If you need any more help, just pm me.

Alternatively, you could follow Daemin's advice, but that wouldn't be much fun [;)]

C++ and DirectX. Unlike the Amiga and other machines,
PCs aren't closed-architecture. You'd have to support
a plethora of sound/graphics cards and even then the
code you write might not be optimal depending on the
processor. You're best off with compiled C/C++ - you
can always have a look through the generated code to
see if there is any room for optimisation.

Its has been a long time since I visited SUMEA
In fact over 6 months
I did buy BlitzPlus and spent 4 nights converting 30,000 lines of C code into Basic and then spent another few days making new sprites in 32x32 size (during 2004 Xmas holiday)
I have posted the game on BlitzCoder and waited for some response but it seems that turn based games are not really popular anymore
(or the fact my game wasnt 100% complete)
I just got into an argument about 2D pathfinding
My game used a different method to A-star

I am waiting for Civilization IV now (due November)

Civilization 3 is good too :-) Youi can probably pick up the complete edition (I did) for about $50 now, that's the original Civilization 3 plus both of the expansion packs.

be proud of what you've done! And I really recommend that you complete the game if possible - being able to finish things is always looked upon very highly in this industry (which oftentimes doesn't finish what it starts).

Ditto to finishing the game, it's much better to have one thing finished than to have 10 incomplete blobs of code and art, take it from someone who has such blobs.

But yeah, Turn Based games aren't dead, they just have evolved slightly, take my current favourite, Rome: Total War :-)

Hi again

I dont think I will carry on and finish the game
Reason why
Civ IV has over 30 programmers and they are working full time
Me
I am a school cleaner for Cyril Jackson High school

Perhaps if I stay at Curtin University back in 1995 and not drop out the game might of been completed

It seems that todays youth like 3D games in which they shoot at each other (quick thrill's with no strategy)

quote:Hi again

I dont think I will carry on and finish the game
Reason why
Civ IV has over 30 programmers and they are working full time
Me
I am a school cleaner for Cyril Jackson High school

Perhaps if I stay at Curtin University back in 1995 and not drop out the game might of been completed

It seems that todays youth like 3D games in which they shoot at each other (quick thrill's with no strategy)

I don't know about that! I'm a TBS fantatic also. Jagged Alliance 2 (hell yeah), HOMM, Civ, Silent Storm (New favourite)... I love these games.

Sure, Civ4 may have 30 programmers, and you'd be foolish perhaps to try and match them in scope.

Have you ever considered though that with your low level experience and tiny team (of one [:P])that platforms such as Palms, phones and portable devices might be an area in which you could excel?

Art is something that can often be slotted in at a later date.

I'd be interested to play your game (especially since I'm looking forward to doing a little TB game of my own once my overtime here ends).

Scott.

i reckon you should carry on, if you really want to break into the industry as a programmer something like this game is great for your portfolio, get your foot in the door learn the industry then maybe start off your own company, or even start a mod get a few guys together and work your way from there, dont give up because of the size and the standards of already established companies, most of them started off like you did. Keep goin hard and dedicated

hi.. (another team of 1 here)
i'd be willing to do some work with you if interested? (i've played civ3, alpha centauri, etc so i dig that scene also but mostly prefer rpg's)

i use a development tool called GAME MAKER 6.1 (full version) you may want to have a look at it if the video memory thing is a pest for you? ..i recommend it :)

www.gamemaker.nl/

Turn-based isn't dead, you just need to know where to look. ;)

BTW, Firaxis didn't have that many on Civ IV, but they did have the help of some fans who helped during alpha-beta phase.

Dale

I'm surprised no one has written a comment about X-fire yet! I'm half way downloading it right now, so I'll be writing what I think a bit later. Definately looking forward to trying it out. I couldn't keep my eyes off at Free Play [:)]

unfortunatly i didnt get a shot at free play (actually, it seemed pretty popular) and i didnt have time to check in on the indy games at AGDC :(
so ill make up for that by downloading it soon ;)

I'm not too sure about it coming with 2k4 as I don't own it. I know that it came with 2k3. Check for a directory with Maya PLE (Personal Learning Edition). It is basically Maya Complete with some water marking in it. If it isn't on the Disc, you can download it from:

http://www.alias.com/eng/products-services/maya/maya_ple/index.shtml;$s…

You will have to have an email address so that you can register with them and get a serial for it. PLE is 129Mb. You can also order a copy of it on CD from them and some CG based mags sometimes have it on their CDs.

Perhaps MoonUnit can help you out more with this one.

It's on your Play disc..

CD6ExtrasMayaPLEMayaPersonalLearningEditionEN_US.exe

atleast thats the case for special edition (i know thats what souri has and i have also), but thats on the game disc, not the extra disc so i should be on the normal DVD ver.

Thanks, I just assumed the install option for Maya would be on the autorun screen. I was completely absent minded and didn't think of opening the DVD itself.

Thanks again.

OKay i just finished asking you about your team in another post - low and behold heres the guts! [:D]

Id just like to say, depending on the requirements - and what your after, and what we are doing at the time, Kalescent Studios may be able to offer some help in areas your having troubles with.

Were also based in Brisbane, check out our website http://www.kalescentstudios.com

If you ever need anything or have questions feel free to contact us [:D]

It sounds interesting, but i'd like to know more about what type/style of game..(I'm a level designer btw..) and also when roughly you would have the editor done to start on the actual building(?)Edit: oh, you might not even mean to this stage..well, i can do concept/environment art too.

Hi my name is ben Im a licensed 3ds max 4.2 and photo shop 6 user and am keen to help, im currently studying a diploma in screen and have skills in both Maya and 3ds Max.

I also have skills in the unreal level editor, and also in exporting characters for the Auranjet engine.
Please feel free to contact me in regards to any help

Ben

benwheatley@hotmail.com

Anyone from the rest of Aussie interested?

Hey dude, I'm on the Gold Coast and interested, I'm just really busy for the next 3 weeks with the end of semester at uni. I generally do 3d modelling and animation (trying to get better at texturing)

If you're happy to wait a few weeks then send me some more infomation slk1138@hotmail.com

Stu

The latest version is 6 (and SP1 is out aswell). Not sure about price, but google with answer that question :)

http://www.dbd.com.au/

Student version - $110 for 6 month liscence, $770 for 2 year liscence with manuals

Stu

Thankaz for that guys and gals, this is really going to help.

My game is out and I'm making dosh but very, very little :D
It is my first game so I do keep improving it, each improvement slightly increases the rate of sales.

congrats bloody footy [:D] noone else has replied i guess thats cos there are none ? tis a shame...

In my opinion, if it's just a couple of you, theres no real need to register the company...in fact it's probably a bad thing depending on your situation...
eg. If you are unemployed atm and collecting the dole, if you register the company, i don't think you can collect dole anymore which will mean having to get another job for income which means less time developing!
If you're basically trying to throw a demo together to get a publishing deal etc., then i'd wait until you have the demo finished and you're actually trying to sell it before registering the company. If you end up having to borrow money etc. to start up, hopefully you won't spend as much time with a big debt if you wait until you can secure funding.
However, you should knock up a written agreement with the person/people you'll be working with which defines what does happen once the company is registered (eg. who owns what share of the company etc.) to avoid anyone doing something nasty later on.
If you have a lawyer type friend who can look it over for you that would be good, and even hiring a solicitor to knock up a standard agreement for you would probably not be too expensive.
Remember, all this is just my opinion and is not neccessarily true or legal! :P
CYer, Blitz

Thanks :)
Opinions are just as good at this stage, just looking for any insight.

Although it is highly recommended that in order to create a startup you should have some industry experience, that means that people will take you more seriously.

But also keep in mind a piece of advice quite a few industry veterans have offered "Do it while your young and have less to lose" (mortagage, loans, family, etc.).
IMO industry experience is only really "neccessary" when you plan to actually put a studio together. If it's just you and a couple mates working together, then go for it, but keep in mind if things do go your way and you end up facing the prospect of expanding into a "real" company, you might be well off thinking about employing people to do project management and business aspects, even if you could get in a weird situation where the producer is telling the boss what to do, because you're the boss, but also just a programmer :P
CYer, Blitz

Just quick comment, have you thought of NEIS? (New Enterprise Incentive Scheme). I know that the QLD government can fund game companies with a new bill they've recently brought in, but I'm not sure if these two things work with each other or if they are separate ...

My 5 cents ...

I'm not sure about that particular program, but often those grant etc. style packages for start-up companies require that one of the company founders/owners whatever has some formal training or experience in (small) business management...
CYer, Blitz

Neis actually puts you through a small business management course,.. i think! but you have to qualify first.

Yes - NEIS does train you. They have you sit down and write up a business plan and assess you for fesability etc.

I think you should see about registering a business name as soon as possible, it's relatively cheap and you'll find most contacts you make will take you more seriously if they see a trading name instead of your own personal name.
You'll also want to take into account that you'll be wanting a website and we all know how difficult it can be securing a domain name of your choosing, and it's getting more difficult all the time.

The two of you could eventually form a partnership or a company, but make sure you nut out who'll do what and clearly define your roles at the outset or you could run into trouble further down the line.

Yes HazarD, you do have to qualify but in a certain way.

You'll have to provide details about the location you'll start your business up in as well as marketing aspects, in other words, get a partition in your location stating the need for your business. I'm not sure of all the details but I have a friend that did go through NEIS, so if anyone needs any general info, give me a yell or go talk to a sarina russo job access place and talk to them about it.

I hope everything works out for you. [:D]

As for legal responsiblities at your stage of development I would highly recomend having some form of written agreement with those that will help you so they don't give away anything.
The agreement should include the fact that - any information given to any other person in the project is not to be given out or released in any public form; this information includes, but is not limited to, design documents and code.
All you need is a written statement from them saying 'I agree'. This little bit of precaution can save many headaches in the long term.

The other one that seems quite interesting is setting up a discretionary trust with a company as the trustee. The trustee determines the pay-outs from the trust, so this would allow paying developers as per their contribution to a project. This seems to be a way of having "shareholders" that have different value shares according to what projects they've worked on. It's kind of drifting more toward a cooperative than a company.

I'm currently looking at this kind of structure with three mates, allowing a couple of different projects to be happening at once, without having to mess around with shares (each of us would hold the same stake in the company, and we wouldn't be changing this).

Got any thoughts about this kind of structure? I'm interested to hear 'em :)

With regard the partnership thing, do keep in mind that you can be liable for your partner's expenses, whereas so long as you have not acted in a negligent manner, as a director of a company, they cannot go after your personal assets.

Thanks for all the ideas guys.

I have another question. If I want to register a domain that ends in .com.au and I'm registering it as an individual, if a company/business comes along later and wants it, do they get legal rights because they are a company/business and I'm only an individual?

If you succesfully register a .com.au domain it's all yours.

As far as i know, they do not. However, the best they can do is buy it off you (Ask for a ton! [;)]) or register a similiar domain such as whatever.net.au. But they may also try to register the domain name when it expires before you do which could be a pain. None the less its up to you.

Im pretty sure your in the clear [:)].

Nah you need an ABN to register a .com.au address - so only companies and those with trading names can apply.

Bugger :(

This whole thing is like a cart and horse, can't do one thing without another etc. etc.

Got some more questions :)

Those of you working as indies or startups, how have you funded yourselves?

How many people or what stage of development did you get to before you bought/registered a business name, or company name?

Do you have a cart and horse [;)]?

I bought a domain with hosting back when i was 13, mind you it wasnt gaming related it was an Anime fan website... i basically just wasted $110 on nothing but a few images and one or two PHP scripts. http://www.anime-sphere.com i thought it would work out but it didnt [;)].

But as for funding im pretty sure that indie developers use the money that is at hand from like pocket money or their small job at a grocery store etc... a big budget never means a good game, always keep that in mind.

Littlemo, sorry should have explained that you only need the ABN for .com.au domains - you can register a .com domain without an ABN though. I think I paid AU$22 or so for a .com domain (12 Euros through www.gandi.net, which included email redirect and web redirect for no extra cost!) No, I'm not a shareholder or anything, just a satisfied customer [:)]

I've been working for 10 years as a software engineer, writing game code as a hobby and am about to go full-time on indie games stuff. Only getting to setting up a company now. Funding for me is going to be a combination of savings, a bit of contract work on the side and having a partner who works.

Actually, can't you get a .com.au without an ABN now? I remember reading about the registry freeing that up a bit..

Don't think so - see Schedule B on http://www.auda.org.au/policies/auda-2003-07/

I always thought you could buy a .com.au domain? Maybe if the domain is a small business in the making or something you need to display your ABN?

I dont know, either way once you have registered a domain, it is yours.

Sorry to keep asking more questions and drift further off the point...
Are any of you guys going to the indie game conference in Melbourne this weekend?

Being up here in Queensland kinda sucks for conferences. AGDC is a hike in itself but it's worth it.

What are the odds of someone recording the conference this weekend and selling them? I'd pay $30-$50 happily. There's gotta be other people who can't make it to Melbourne who'd be willing to pay for a video/cd/dvd of the conference.

i could do a video of sunday but only sunday because unfortunatly i wont be able to make it on any other days :(

Sounds like an idea that you might suggest to the people organising freeplay. Could run a video in each of the 3 session rooms, sell the divxes of the whole conference for $50, get 20 people to buy and you've covered the costs, perhaps made a small profit.

E-mail is on the way to them as we speak... :)

I have looked into the NEIS program from centrelink. Its legal to run a company on the dole, but there a few problems.

Your company needs to earn revenue, not profit.
Stage 3 of NEIS your company needs to earn profit.
I would look into grants or that new gov scheme for game developers.

One reccomendation. Plan and plan. Then register your business name its a little known fact that you can't do a thing unless you have a ABN or registered business name. Trust me on this. Been working on the game for 6 months and the business for 7 months.

If your ever in the vercinity of Brisbane give me a bell we are doing the same thing you are. Slightly larger team though.

how big is your team dwarfman ? just curious! [:D]

It is possible to get NEIS assistance for a game development project. I've done it. It's just not easy.

Ignore the other grants and focus on your product. You won't get a look-in unless you have something you can sell. They'll be wary of you even if you have a list of published titles you've worked on.

Realise that the people you'll be buzzwording and enthusing to haven't even seen computer games, and know nothing about the market. Also realise that on paper the games business is the worst business model available.

You're not a business until you're making a turn-around. People won't give you money until you're a business.

The most important thing to focus on is the product. If you don't have a product to sell, then it doesn't matter what kind of businessman you are. When you've something to show you can get to the full-time task of running the business.

I'm full of things to say, but I'd turn this post into a book. Good luck with your projects. Anything is possible.

Scott.

This is kinda related, but do you have to register your company no matter what or does it only have to be registered if you make a certain amount each year.(eg: $20000+ p.a would require registration, just an example)

I'd just like to say 1000 tris is very low IMO (especially for something complex like a chopper with multiple rotors, nice curves etc.) How many aer you planning to have on screen at a time?
Modern graphics cards (anything since, say GF2) can render 2-3000 tris almost as fast as 1000 if they are fed to the gpu nicely.
Something to keep in mind anyway, giving the artists 3000 polys lets them make a cool chopper with lots of weapons and curves, rather than a box with boxes attatched :)
Plus, if you're expecting more than say 10-12 on screen at a time, there is always LOD.
CYer, Blitz
EDIT: Forgot you're using a third party engine, i have no idea of it's capabilities so i could be way off the mark depending how it handles things.

Valid point Blitz; the engine I am using could go to about 2,000 each but each of my games are made to run on lower end computers (I don't try to compete with high graphic games, I try to pick up the players that these games exclude :) ).

I also have to take into account if we use a differant engine, what if that can't handle it?

On a personal note I find it isn't the poly's that make the asset, it's the texture mapping that is the differance between 'wow' and 'errr???' :)

That is true that texture mapping is the difference, but having a higher limit on the tri's would give the model a better apearence making the texture fit better. Instead of having a 80's car style chopper, you could have one that's late 90's car style. If you get what I mean.

I think that is used in the right context.

Good quality textures are essential for sure, but you can't make a 3D object out of texture maps :)
1000 tris can probably give you an ok body and rotors, but you might be pushing that limit hard to put some decent guns coming off the side...
Fair enough if you're trying to target low-end computers though :)
CYer, Blitz

You have got to realise that most people don't have the latest and greatest computers that have the latest graphic cards; I read my site statistics and the majority of people that download my game don't have these specifications.
The game I am making is based on game play and reaching out to the widest possible audience - if you look at the games today that need the latest graphics card then you will see the game play is not much to look at.

is this the scott from deadpuppy ?

nope, thats reznor

Hey I need a programmer badly, the game I'am working on is called "Dead next Door: Life after death" We are are putting together a demo. Unfortunately we cant pay you, which sucks, but it would be cool if you could spare a few hours of your time :)
heres the website

you can contact Brad kingjehu@charter.net

or me Scsut_1@hotmail.com

The game is an Zombie FPS, based on a movie called "Dead next door" We got the Writer/directors permission etc. the story of the game is set between the first and second movies (Second movie hasn't been filmed yet) We have pretty good graphics technology, we use AMP2 currently. Basically were not fussed how good you are as long as you can code c++

http://game.deadnextdoor.com/