Artists

Its a complex thing to explain on one post, your best bet is to do a google search, tonnes of info on it.

Also visit www.polycount.com too they have a tonne of threads already answering this question.

Some normal mapping creation software for everyone to play with:

ATI normal mapper
http://www.ati.com/developer/tools.html

ORB
http://www.soclab.bth.se/practices/orb.html

Discreet normal render utility
http://sparks.discreet.com/downloads/downloadshome.cfm?f=2&wf_id=83
(registration required)

Mankua's Kaldera
http://www.mankua.com/kaldera.cfm

Mmmmm normal maps are our friends.

Thankx heaps malus [:D] some good information there .....

is there a normal Mapper for maya ??? for all you maya users out there ??

To sum it up, it's surface data encoded into an image which is used for a models lighting.

The angle that a face points is called its normal. A normal map is taking a high res models normals, takes its XYZ, and encodes it into the three colour channels RGB - each pixel in a channel can represent a value of 0-255. This map is used with per pixel lighting to illuminate the low poly model with the surface detail of the original high poly model.

That, in a nutshell, is what it's about. Take a normal map into photoshop, and look at the RGB channels seperately. You'll see what I mean.

Thank you very much J.I that makes more sense......the links that malus gave me are really good too.....[:D]

chris... [:)]

lol, yeah thats it.
Guess I was just being lazy, nice job on concisely explaining that Mr Styles, would have taken me tonnes of paragraphs. [:P]

Pantmongers your man. But I hope you have wades of the bling bling or at least coffee.
He likes his coat brushed too, and scratch him behind his ears. lol

hmm, let me check with workplace health and safety...

Don't let malus fool you. He has sprite skills too.

Ill be up for that for sure.[8D]

I dont know if you would have to extend it that much more than the lowpoly comp.

HELL YEAH !!! im up for dat anyday [:D] I try not to do too much low poly as well but thats me specialty highpoly details to the maxx [:D] i rekon we do a competition for this for game cinematics

better have some numbers to support it...

dont want only 1 or two entries to be there at the end of a challenge.

Yeah, so anyone else keen?

As long as I have the time, I'll give it a go.

Pantmonger

I'm keen to give it try :)

i keep crashing my comp with 500-700k poly scenes lol. i mostly do high poly so this is a sweet idea

im still interested....:)

So am I. [:P]

I just need to get this other challenge out of the way then I'm all for a highpoly challenge.

Doesn't look like theres much interest though.

If the time frame is right i'll join in. I also wouldn't mind a concept design challenge, you could probably make it alot shorter than the 3D challenges.

Every modeller should be able to do both high and low polygon models, so I think most modellers wouldn't be too afraid to enter a high polygon modeller challenge.. It'll give low polygon modellers a chance to touch into a new area too. Besides, I think it would be a good change from the low polygon challenges..

I'm sure there will be more interest once you set some requirements and decide on a theme.

Well then lets get this thing rolling.

Inglis gets my vote for coming up with a challenge topic.

And maybe start it when the low poly challenge is nearing the end?

Would this take the form of a sumea challenge - ie the modeller challenge? Or will it be something separate?

thanks for the vote malus...
if it does go ahead i would be happy to write up the topic.

I'd also be interested :P

oh yeah but i have to get max 4 re-registered c-dilla died and my max5 is gone 2 *cry* but hoping to get max back on my computer ssoon cos using uni ones is annoying :P

are we close to enough interest? [?]

I think you should come up with a topic and post it closer to the end of the 3D challenge, maybe a week before, that'll give everyone time to get the challenge finished and think of what they want to do.

I'd also set the start date for no more than a week after the end of the current challenge too.

When a topics announced you'll find more interest I believe.

quote:Originally posted by Malus

I think you should come up with a topic and post it closer to the end of the 3D challenge, maybe a week before, that'll give everyone time to get the challenge finished and think of what they want to do.

I'd also set the start date for no more than a week after the end of the current challenge too.

When a topics announced you'll find more interest I believe.

Well there is 1 week left on the current challenge.
Would you like me to write up a topic?

im in! hey dean - its troy by the way,.. how you doin man hope its all good :)

High poly comp sounds sweet - although itll probably reduce my computer to a smouldering wreck, ill still give it a bash ;)

Inglis: When ever your ready man.
HazarD: Hey man, good to see you joined Sumea.

ok. ill write up guideline and post it in the challenge forum shortly.

yeh im up for that

Im not sure I have a single style so much, but I'll let you decide, here is a cross section of my stuff

[img]http://home.iprimus.com.au/evilbunny/MTemp/mini01.jpg[/img] [img]http://home.iprimus.com.au/evilbunny/MTemp/mini02.gif[/img] [img]http://home.iprimus.com.au/evilbunny/MTemp/mini03.jpg[/img][img]http://…]

Pantmonger

I'm not sure if I have a certain style either, I'm trying to find one but I'm never satisfied with my work, but I guess self critiqueing is a good thing if you want to evolve as an artist.

I started drawing before pretty much anything else, used to sit in front of the TV watching mighty mouse etc and just lose myself in my own little world/s. I was never very social just me my pencil and Mr TV.

I used to just draw all day, I always imagine how the character would exist in its world, how the enviroment would have effected it both physiologically and metally.
Can't stand seeing design that say it lives in the cold but has no skin, or predators with eyes on the sides of their head like a cow etc lol.

I don't work like most artist's I know, most Ive met block in and then work from the pelvis/chest out when drawing.
I never block in and draw from the head first, I find I need to get the characters feel first, and the head is where the character is most focused for me, I sort of scanline render my drawings from head to toe lol.

My portfolio shows a bit of my work but its not that recent anymore and like most work I finish, I hate it afterwards, must do better, must do better. [:P]

Nice work PANTS as usual [:)] its good to see you use a mixed style of drawing and painting [:)].

Wow its kool that you dont block out your characters first malus and yet u still tend to keep it on the right form [:)].What i mainly do is work from head to toe [:D] and yes mainly i do focus on the head more as well because it does give the persons view on their personlaity and attitude.

We can never be satisfied with our work even though we thought we did our best on it at that time then we do look back and say that is shit now LOL which is really weired.

Keep em coming guys..... i want to see more work [:D]

quote:.. or predators with eyes on the sides of their head like a cow etc lol.

Didn't Tyrannosaurus Rex have eyes on the side of it's head? ;P

I've been told my style sits somewhere between Eastern and Western styled comic art although a lot of my subject matter draws influence from Japanese or Japanese videogames. Most of my art is line based and depending on how much mood I want in the pic, the amount of shading will vary. I try to put a bit more detail in than your manga styled pic, maybe that's the Western influence.

I always start with the stick figure, this dictates the line of action that the piece will have. Then, chest and arms, then fill in the stomach and pelvis. Next, I'll usually work in the head and do the legs last. Then go over it again for all the detail work.

I was going to add some more pics, but most of the ones in my Sumea profile are unfinished and don't accurately reflect my points.

This isn't intended as a criticism to anyone that does only Manga style - but I feel it's not enough to only have Manga as your style. In a recent post I read with developers, they're looking for an individual artists personal style as opposed to being able to mimic a popular flavour. It's great if you can do Manga as well as others, but apparently just Manga by itself isn't enough.
Personally, I dont feel that drawing in Manga style teaches the artist enough about anatomy - Manga is puposely exaggerated proportion-wise and things such as faces are simplified too much.

Of course, this is all relative - all you manga artists out there, don't take offense. Despite my crits of the style, I do love great Japanese anime artwork.

quote:Didn't Tyrannosaurus Rex have eyes on the side of it's head? ;P

They're not on the side just deep set to the rear of the skull, they were still bifocal, eyes looked forward, predators do this for better focus since they need to charge down animals etc.
Cows eat grass and need better peripheral vision in case a predator is sneaking up on their chewy butts. [:P]

I agree that anime isn't someones personal style its a genre, a style developed by the japanese similar.
In the west disney then marvel etc where developed and emulated (read copied) by every kid who picked up a pencil.
People do have there own style within anime but it still follows some basic formulated rules.
I know anime is popular, I love it myself but I find you should try to take pieces from other works to develop your own not just draw the same style as others. (unless you want to work soley as an anime artist that is).

Normally it depends on what 'feel' i am going for, but when im sketching i will usually revert to a'hyper' style of drawing. So i guess you could call that my style.

Hyper style is just taking what you are trying to capture and exaggerating it, so that the feel is easily recognisable, but not to the point where the exageration looks ridiculous. The piece must have some sort of balance to it.

I would post pics but for some reason i can't get a membership going to post 2d pics, so u will just have to take my word for it that it looks dope.

I dunno what my style is. I find myself torn between striving for smooth shaded pics while at the same time, I love some of the well drawn manga and american comic lineart. I've tried to merge them with something painterly but with a cartoon feel.

Honestly though, I don't think I have a proper style yet, still developing and learning. I can see so many directions for art, but I think I want to head more towards realism.

My stuff is pretty varied. At the moment I'm producing stuff with a strong comic influence (drawn from wetworks, spawn and manga comics). I finished a small piece today that I'll try and upload tonight.

Here's a little bit of my work, comic style.
[img]http://www.hotkey.com.au/~noody/images/fullimages/scoutmech_concept_sma…]

I was in year 7 (High Shool N.S.W.) when I encountered a friend of mine drawing creatures that he had read about in the Dragon Warriors RPG. A conversation followed
Me: "What you doing?"
Him: "Drawing, Here (extends offer of pencil and paper) Draw"
Me: "But I can't Draw"
Him: "That doesn't matter"

So draw I did, a creature called a Deaths Head, it was crap (no surprise there) But I enjoyed making it so I kept drawing.

I decided I wanted to do it for a living when I was studying psych at UQ and I thought "this sucks I want to do art for a living" I have only been drawing with dedication (by this I mean drawing everyday give or take) for the last 3 years.

Artists I admire:

Brom, what that man can do with traditional media stuns the hell out of me

Frank Millers work on Sin City, Talk about emotion capturing, mood showing art.

Well thats me.

Pantmonger

I remember drawing a picture when I was 4, although I may have started earlier than that. I think I drew a person walking along a footpath.

I've always drawn and in my classes at school I was usually 'the best drawer' guy. Most of my books were lined with doodles and whatnot. I did design at school as opposed to art as I wanted to focus on commercial skills and technical skills although I did art in my final year at school.

I've pretty much drawn all the time since I was young with heavy focus on characters for games from my teenage years. I figured someone out there was getting paid for it. So I practiced anatomy hard out and just did anything that I thought would be a good character for games with thought to what sort of gameplay mechanics they could offer.

At uni, I got a hold of the software and started colouring on the pc. Also used 3d Studio Max 2.5 and then went to the AIE the year after. I'm a design graduate, so at some stage I hope to merge the two disciplines.

Artists I admire:

Yoji Shinkawa - did the character and mech designs for the Metal Gear Solid series. What this guy does with a brushpen is amazing. It has a distinct look and personality to it which is probably what I admire most more than technical ability.

Alex Ross - love his work, so much personality as well as high level of realism.

Joe Madrueira - Love Battle Chasers to bits. Now that he's dissolved his game studio he should go back to it. Cool anatomy and great colouring from the Liquid! team.

Goseki Kojima - His work on Lone Wolf & Cub is excellent. With simple black and white his work oozes frenetic and frantic pace.

Capcom artists - Bengus and Akiman. Their work on the Streetfighter series (all) as well as the SNK artist are probably the biggest influence on my anatomical style.

Feng Zu - 'Nuff said.

There's a few more, but those are the main ones.

I started drawing when i was 5 years old coming from a family of artists.

My inspiration back then was DragonBall Z (Still owns any cartoon around [:)]) that is the reason i pretty much got into manga Artwork. Then it went onto high skool doing graphics artwork and during high skool was teaching other students how to draw manga....
In year 10 i started using 3D studio max 2.0 and photoshop then uni went off to doing interactive multimedia.... (but no 3D [:(]) Now i work for a multimedia company in melbourne doing cd-roms, websites and of course 3D animations and modelling.

All my 3d and drawing are all self taught which is the best way to learn [:)].

My Fave artists are :

Joe Madrueira = Yes also to me battle chasers !!!!.

Feng Zhu = just like jonathan said 'NUFF said'.

Musamone Shirow = Ghost in the shell creator (Freakin kick arse [:)])

Pascal Blanche = Don't have to explain... [:)]

Akira Toriyama = Obviously the best cartoon series in the world (DB, DBZ).Too bad he didnt do work on DB-GT *i think* [:(]

and many many more......

hope i didn't bore anyone....[:)]

My Mum was my heavy influence, and still is when she busts out a mad drawing. She used to do leather work and glass cutting too, and was heavily into art in High School. Draws great horses. (Yay Mum! @:-)

So yeah, I started drawing pretty early, and it's been the only constant (apart from gaming) in my life. Animation's cropped up from time to time, and I'm still in consideration of pursuing that as a career or not (or at least heavily extend my knowledge of it). Did Art through High School, bar a couple of years when I was taking Agriculture seriously. My first lot of digital art was done in Deluxe Paint on... I think it was my old Amstrad. Still have those pictures on a floppy somewhere down in Canberra. Will dig them up next time I'm down there. @:-)

Got my first graphics tablet around Year 10, I think. Huge thing used for CAD drawing (something like 16" x 12"). No pressure sensitivity and everything had cords, but I knew no better, so I was in heaven. Picked up a copy of 3DSMAX 3 in either '99 or 2000, taught myself with the aid of the Tutorials book. Old tablet wouldn't work after a complete system upgrade, so had to get my current Acecad Flair 5" x 3.75". Best year of learning was while at QANTM (yes, I heartily agree with all complaints of the course at that time, but for the few classes we did have, I soaked it in hugely. And with people around me to bounce art off, it was continually inspiring. Something I really miss.)

Which brings us to now, where I'm doing a Bachelor of Multimedia as I missed out on Fine Arts by one rank. I get along to Life Drawing every fortnight... and yeah. @:-P All that blah blah and now I have to list my influences.

Craig Mullins - I remember first seeing his art. I've learnt much from studying his work.

Andrew Jones - Not only did he work on Metroid Prime, but his daily self portraits continue to impress me, not only in the quality, but the dedication as well.

Leonardo da Vinci - Nuff said.

Dan Paladin - Character animation flows from him like... a really big... flowing thing.

And I'm sure I could go on forever, so I won't. @:-)

I found Dhabih Eng's website about 3 years ago and if I hadn't have found it, I'd probably be doing commerce or engineering... *Shudder*

Jason! Good to seeya around these parts @:-D Still see ya work at Sijun (more of a lurker there now) and you continue to impress me. Welcome to Sumea dude!

i never did art at school and wasnt interested in computers/digital art until late school.

started drawing (mostly strange hr giger styled stuff..) and filling up my school books instead of paying attention in class in grade 11. i remember i spent 1 whole day going from class to class drawing one really detailed peice that covered a whole page- went through about 6 red ball point pens :) (i had no pencils handy :))

started freelance graphic/web design in grade 11. then started 3d when i finished grade 12, 1? years ago. doing it ever since...

i get my inspiration from a lot of artists/movies etc...anything that jumps out :)

OMG Jason ive seen your work your a freak !!!! (i mean it in a nice way [:)]) your a very damn good drawer !!!! im sure u will build up your skillz keep us updated on your stuff....[:D] great work !!!

Hey Brain how's it going? :) What's QANTM? I keep hearing it being mentioned. Good school I assume?

Hey Chris, thanks... I think?? hehe nah I get ya. :) I've gotta get my hands dirty with 3D though if I wanna get a job. Being only a 2D artist ain't gonna cut it these days. :(

yeah true games industry is so competitive it is hard to get in and they prefer (I think??) to have an all rounder in different fields. [:(]

Jack of all trades, is pretty much the case for artists in australia anyway, other more establish companies overseas can afford to have specialists but they don't have our pitiful dollar to contend with.

I used to draw a bit when I was little and went in a few comps, because of living in a small town this was easy and I kind of couldn't see how I could go much more into it and lost interest. At high school I did very little art (I didn't study it at all,) the only time I did any art was went someone in my year come back from the art room with something that was alright and I just had to top it to show off. Which was fun and was something people looked forward to.

Then because of my interest and getting into the games industry I program for game for all year 11 and half of year 12. Then I played with unreal ed and build some levels and found this a hell of a lot more fun. So I looked for a Uni course which did this shit and I found one in Bathurst at CS which was 4 years and was the first year it was going to be ran. I didn't like the sound of it because of that, then heard about the AIE and seen that there was people which has gotten into the game industry that way. I got a position at both places and went to the AIE.

2 years later I'm working in the industry.

I get my inspiration from a lot of artists/movies etc...anything that jumps out at me.

I remember drawing a really awesome picture in my notebook during a highschool maths class.. I was so focused on the drawing that I didn't notice my Maths teacher circling around me (and lecturing at the same time), until she reached my page, ripped it out, and scrunched it up.. while still continuing with her talk! Ahh.. that's what you get! [:)]
I can always remember drawing a lot.. then I got my first C64, and drew art with that. Then the Amiga.. I came across a 3D program called Imagine (it was released for free as a cover disk for Amiga Format, I think), but there wasn't much 3D you can do with an Amiga 500, with 1mbs of ram. [:)]

Me uncle got me into drawing. I rememba watching him wen i was like 5. He was in high school at the time winning award afta award for his drawing efforts. He was a hella good drawer, and he was the person who inspired me to pick up drawing. He would draw from alot of D&D s*** so i started doing the same. I was a young buck so i had no clu wat i was drawing, and my stuff didn't even come close, but what mattered was being persistent.

After that i drew all thru primary and high school. Either in class while listening to teachers (they would try and catch me out but it aint hard to hear and draw at the same time, so they just let me be) or id grab a rock or sum chalk and draw on the ground during lunch break. Teachers didn't have a problem with that either, cuz most of my s*** was tight so they would even leave it there most times.

I was a drawing finatic in my youth, i would draw on anything and everything. In church we'd get handouts, id draw on that. Excercise sheets in class, draw on that. Other mates ring binders, draw on that. Blackboard while waiting for teacher, draw on that. Table cloths at restaurants, draw on that. Pretty much anything i could put a pen too i would draw on, it just never stopped for me, i loved it. And it paid off, cuz just like my uncle i was winning awards for my s*** and i was like best drawer in high school by yr 9. Most of my teachers would get pissed and they'd try to put me down, saying i should be more attentive in class. Fair enuff my grades were subpar, but id rather draw then do homework and tests. My reason was that when i grew up i knew id be drawing so everything else came 2nd to that.

Most mermorable moment would have to be the yr6 school fete. Everyone was baking muffins and crackers etc for the fete. I couldn't bake or cook so i was strung. Then a mate suggested i draw up some pics and sell them at the fete. I told him to get stuffed cuz i was very sensitive about my work (which is probably why i drew like a madman.) But he insisted that i do it, so i thought what the heck. I drew up like 8 different images and photocopied different sizes. Poster size, postcard size etc. I put a different price on each size, the largest going for about 50 cent. Anyhoo, on the day of the fete, they sold like hot cakes! Even better then hot cakes because i had to go back and print more copies to sell. I was even selling it to teachers, which i thought was a blast. What's funny tho, is that over the years ive bumped into mates from back in the day and they still have the s*** i drew for them! that just makes me feel all fuzzy and warm inside.

Since i left school tho, things have changed, i draw alot less and my skills don't increase in leaps and bounds like they used to, but ill be leaving work soon so that will all change.

Anyhoo, my inspiration for art mainly comes from comics. Since i was 9 i been reading and learning from comic art. Lately tho (last 5 yrs) im not referring to them anymore because my processes are pretty solid now.

Sorry to carry on but u asked.

hmmm
well mine wasn't anything like some of the ones i read of you guys.
I somehow just got into it from a completely different feild gradually.
Get this i started out wanting to be a coder [:D]
I guess if i got back as far as i can it started with me being interested in writing.
My story is very complicated so i'll cut out the fat from here on.
I used to be very good at maths and science so it looked like that was where i was going. But then when my 6 grade teacher said we should write a story that i guess set me off. I can remember spedning adv maths in year 9 and 10 just writing fan fiction :)
Which i why i suck so much at maths in college. That and i didn't do any work but thats another story.
Anyways when i got an N64 i started playing games. Goldeneye got me into games not just to play them but interested in what goes into them. That led me down the programming route untill i, at some point read about the design aspects. Then i thought to myself i want to be a designer and also by year 12 i realised that i didn't have the expertise in the maths that i would never use to do coding at uni so i dropped that. I still have an interest in programming but i enjoy doing art more.
I went down the design route for a long time and got into art as a way of getting into design. The first peice of art that i can remember was a wallpaper jpg using paintshop pro :)
I actually got into the computer art before drawing. Mainly cause im not really good at drawing. I don't practise because i get so frustrated because i can't get what i want onto paper.
My love of writing also led me down the movies path and into direction and acting. The combination of those art and acting becomes 3d animation which is my strongest point. I would be doing acting if i thought i could make but my programmers logic thinking means i probably won't [:P]
as for inspiration. Countless anime directors and key animator directors. Essentailly anime is my inspiration in short.
Okay that may have been the woolworths version of no fat but hey. Thats my story in a not very coherent form and proably missing alot of key details.

Hey man, Sounds interesting. Good luck with it all. Who are the poeple you have abroad. Do i know them??

It's Brendan if you don't know

Make a copy of the mesh and place on top of the exsisting mesh, slightly expand the mesh (select all facees and extrude by face local) and give it a texture that is wire frame 100 percent self illuminated and the colour of your choice.

Your model now has a wire version on top and the model under it can be displayed anyway you want. ie Smooth Facet etc..

Pantmongner

Thanks Pantmonger.

or just do a screen capture [:P]

Yeah you can do that but then you can't use the renderer to make the model look cool and you are limited to your display quality.

Some would say that a screen grab is the best way to display your mesh as it shows it in a raw state, the choice is yours.

Pantmonger

for game dev its more accurate of the raw like pants said, but gi lighting is so purdy for pimping [:P]
If your only showing the wireframe why do u need it to look spiffy?

quote:Originally posted by Malus

for game dev its more accurate of the raw like pants said, but gi lighting is so purdy for pimping [:P]
If your only showing the wireframe why do u need it to look spiffy?

Its easier to simple render and save as a JPEG. You don't have to open a paint program and copy paste, edit out unwanted parts of the screen etc :P Good for the lazy!

Yeah but you are going to have to open a paint program anyway so that you can optimise said JPEG and get the best quality to memory ratio, lest some 56k user kick you in the nuts.

Pantmonger

The way pants mentioned works, but can often cause probs when you have small detailed areas in the silhoutte.. When you scale out the outer mesh, it pushes the wires outwards..

The best way I know to do it, is to select all edges, make them 'visible' if you want to show all the triangulation, then click 'create shape from edges', check 'linear' and you're done..

Now, there will be a spline created on top of your mesh, select it, change it to renderable, 3 sided and change the thickness where necessary in the rollout.

Apply a black texture to it, and you're done.

edgemap plugin:

http://www.snotmonster.com/

Hey I play battlefield and i'm a modeller! I'm part of the AC clan in brisbanes cyber room we all kick ass in battlefield :) well the boys are better

quote:Originally posted by bouncy_roo

Hey I play battlefield and i'm a modeller! I'm part of the AC clan in brisbanes cyber room we all kick ass in battlefield :) well the boys are better

AC Clan in brisbanes cyber room? I'm part of the one online... Armchair Commando's - we talkin' about the same clan here? o_O

hehe nah one i'm in is called Anticlan we all slaughter people and go drinking at faith on fridays wheeee :) I'm a tank slut

quote:Originally posted by Kris

quote:Originally posted by bouncy_roo

Hey I play battlefield and i'm a modeller! I'm part of the AC clan in brisbanes cyber room we all kick ass in battlefield :) well the boys are better

AC Clan in brisbanes cyber room? I'm part of the one online... Armchair Commando's - we talkin' about the same clan here? o_O

Ah ok :)

So are you interested? Or just making conversation? :P

Oh I'm interested just give me a quick email with details etc. gi83si@yahoo.com [:I]

quote:Originally posted by Kris

Ah ok :)

So are you interested? Or just making conversation? :P

Will do :]

I personally use 3D Studio Max, and have not used those other packages yet, though I do hope to play in Maya PLE sometime in the holidays and get myself a copy of Softimage XSI EXP.

From my understanding, Max has been the most commonly used over the past few years, but Maya is also up there and is used quite often too. Softimage is quite high end but is now starting to get used quite a bit. Jedi Outcast used it for animations, and Halflife2 has used it for all models.

I'd recommend you concentrate on the single package while you get into modelling, and once you feel confident, check out the other packages. When you have developed your modelling skills, you should be able to jump over to another package without too many problems.

As you are learning, I'd probably check out which title has the most tutorials and support available online. If it is game models you are after, Max would probably be the easiest to find information on.

Good luck!

Hi Hades, Welcome to Sumea.

As far as I know 3D Studio Max is probably still the most predominant in the industry but with lower pricing plans Maya is gaining ground fast.
Also with its excellent animation systems and the larger counts on some of the newer game models softimage is being used more and more.
I'd keep with Gmax or if you can get a copy of the evaluation cds for softimage and maya try them too then the one you feel more comfortable with go with that.

Major Clods right in saying pick one and learn, do everything you can but just in one package at first, its suprisingly easy to adjust to another package once you are proficient with the first one.

Have fun, its a pretty stressful industry to get a start in but its a hell of alot of fun if you like a challenge.

Thanks Major Clod and Malus.

Your advice has been quite helpful.

Thanks again

I us Blender 3d and am looking for some good tutorials on modeling the human body. Anybody out there know of any good tuts or site please let me know.

I've posted a fair few good links on the [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/section.asp?class=Modeller&modeller=-1&type=2"]modellers section[/url] page.. Under Sumea links - tutorials.. Lots of people love that Joan of Arc modelling tutorial, so check that out.

lol, if I see another joan of arc or dangergirl model I'll scream. [:P]

Heres a link to some Blender and Wings info:

http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=83

I think it's such an awesome tutorial - worthy of publication in a book, I reckon.. It gives you the concepts on how to model the body, head, eyes, hair, armoury, gloves, accessories, boning, skin deformation.. the lot! It's such a great starting point for people who don't know how to approach modelling characters.. and once you follow it through, you could pretty much do any model that those concept artists chuck at you.. [;)]

I agree its a great tutorial, Its one I show my students alot, just sick of seeing those models in portfolios. hehe

I'm also a relative noob to the gaming modelling area. Have worked on a few small high-poly animation projects where optimization isn't as imperitive but am now heavily involved in the beginnings of an AWESOME mod which will be for Half-Life 2 and need to get heavily into modelling for games.

To this end, can anyone recommend any great tutorial sites on modelling and animating for games? Specifically for the Half-Life engine (I know Source is completely different but HL is as good a place as any to start).

I also have never done any REAL texturing, have only done procedural mapping. Would love to get some really great tutes on UVW unwrap texturing.

Thanks in advance guys.

There is a brilliant tutorial on modelling a low poly human at www.3dtotal.com at the moment (here is the direct link: http://www.3dtotal.com/team/Tutorials/benmathis/benmathis_body_1.asp). It's not quite as beginner friendly as Joan of Arc, but still exceptional.

@Malus: you don't like danger Girl models? if it is any consolation, i feel like screaming whenever i see someone refer to something over600 triangles and/or not built vertex_by_vertex as 'lowpoly'....

~i know we have silly high poly limits now, but you can get a lot more detail in if you work the polys instead of using these 'quick' modelling high end apps. hades, if you have a chance, check out lightwave.

nuf' said

I like danger girl models, just don't like seeing everyone doing it and pimping it as a new model.

I've never built a model vertex by vertex, thats just insane. [:P]

Why are higher poly limits silly? You have to grow with whats out their, I love making sub 800 poly models myself but its all different disciplines, don't pigeon hole yourself into only being capable of one thing or you'll be left behind.

By my definition the term low poly is a fluid one, it describes the common industry limit for popular modelling (even though most games still use sub 1500 polys)therefore it grows as the tech/popularity grows, low poly by comparison to film/fmv/dead or alive models etc.

Otherwise we'd be saying "its mid/low poly" and "low high/poly" etc, would get confusing really fast.

My pet hate, people who think engines can only use quads, and those that don't give correct tri polycounts on their models therefore there 2000 poly model is 4000 poly, argh learn some basic modelling standards or at least ask some coders what an engine does!!
You need to know more than modelling to be useful in this bis, you need to know the background, structure, work practices and standards too.

Hey trankillity. From what I've heard, HL2 uses (or can support) normal mapping. So you might want to look into that for your mod. It's a different way to doing low poly character, but can save you on texturing time, as a lot of the texture data comes from the normal values. By that I mean the light and dark areas. Just a thought, seeing as you mentioned you havn't done any texturing.

hey hades, im new to 3d also I have been trying to teaching myself for the last 6 months or so and since this is my first post here so i'll just say hi to everone :P

from what i found 3d max is probly better poly modeller so more suited for game models and maya is a better nurbs moddler and is better for high detail so... movies ect

but i feel comfortable with max and there is an huge amount of tutorals for it too

No matter the case, it always comes down to whatever you personally feel comfortable in. At the base level, the theory is all the same - it doesn't matter if you use maya complete, or imagine 3.0 - as long as you're comfortable with the feel of the package and learn the base theory - it comes down to the package you use doesn't affect what you produce or what you're capable of.

I know people that still use 3dsr4 (dos 3d studio before max) that are just so sickly talented, it makes you blush.

Max is easier to get a grasp of for people who are new to 3D but Maya is in my opinion the most powerful overall, unless you have Softimage, its dreamy. [:)]

I still think max has got it in terms of modelling and although I havn't done too much with Maya, I do prefer max's interface over maya's. But then again, I'm a max user, and I would say that wouldn't I?

I really comes down to spending the time to learn one package and doing the best you can with it. The principles of 3D modelling and animation are all the same, and those are the tricky bits, bot just learning the program.

Good luck with whatever you go with :)

If your looking for work in Australia forget XSI, truespace, blender and Lightwave... Maya and Max get you work down under. Max is the clear leader in game studios here. Photoshop is standard in all studios too so make sure you have and handle on that too.

As to which one is better, I have to let you decide... I now work for Discreet so I must be considered biased. Make your own call, but as Ionized says stick with one until your showreel rocks. Your showreel is your ticket.

Good luck!

i have used both max and maya (both to decent extents), and i must say that i personally prefer maya. the tools really arent that different. the main thing that i loved about maya over max is the interface. really alien at first (as i did max first), soon became second nature. i really wish more apps had that interface. god bless marking menus.

it does come down to personal pref though. look at a lot of forums, and cool work is done with all the packages. even cinema 4D is getting some great character work pumped out of it now. go with what you like, not what other people like.

quote:Originally posted by kingofdaveness


If your looking for work in Australia forget XSI, truespace, blender and Lightwave... Maya and Max get you work down under.

Mostly true, except Melbourne House have been Softimage users for years although they also use Max, and Tantalus were Lightwaver's, whether they still use it or not I'm not sure.

thx major clod, Ive got 3 models being made with normal mapping in mind, this should come in handy.

Woah... excellant links.. I will have to make this topic sticky..

Some very good advice here: http://itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm

I put some texturing ones on my site... www.dazking.com

http://www.anry.ru/eng/index.htm

Anry has a video of his Tyreal Knight painting, it shows every line Anry made to get the final image. 10mb, 1 hour of video, no sound. You'll probably need to Download the codec (Camtasia Studio TSCC Codec). Anry has it on his web page but it didn't work for me so I had to use this site:

http://www.techsmith.com/download/studiodefault.asp

my god. i thought that Anry was just brilliant when i frist saw his work, but now i think he is a God. damn he is good.

A pretty cool step-by-step tutorial of a digital painting. 61 pictures and comments presented using flash.

http://www.tenthorbital.com/info/painting.html

Some texturing tutorials

Texturing PDF file

http://rapidshare.de/files/12664245/faux.pdf.html

Head Texturing video in photoshop (requires registration, which is free)

http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?/planetquake/polycount/tutorials/vide…

Free video Tutorial on game Texturing.

http://www.simplymaya.com/movie_pages/tutorial.mhtml?tut_id=94

Ok, I'm unsticky-ing this thread. Lots of links dead, and you can update the links list if you like in the Sumea wiki at http://www.sumea.com.au/sumeawiki/owbase/ow.asp?2dLinks

I still find the human form, like the hands, a bit taxing, but still very enjoyable to draw. I'm not very good at technical type drawings, which is something I'll look at strengthening in the future. I've just started taking life drawing classes, so hopefully I'll see some improvement in that area soon.

yeh im not too good with technical things either, but thats mainly due to my pet peeve with rulers. Just dont like 'em. 2 fidgety.

Sho nuff:

quote:I'm not the greatest drawer in the world

I'm not the best cupboard myself. [:P]

I'm still trying to better everything but the biggest challenges have always been foreshortening and lighting.

My girlfriend says my women sometimes need work, to butch looking but she says they're getting there, I love having a live in critic. [:)]

I dont have one thing that gives me particular problems. I am better at women then men but thats about it. Most of my stuff is about the same quality. (How good that quality is, is up to debate).

Never hide the bit you suck at. Other artists and people who know there art will spot it real fast. Plus if you dont do it you won't get better at it. The rule I go by is that every picture I do must have somthing in it that I have not done before or something that I find hard.

Pantmonger

I don't feel comfortable in saying I'm good at any area (human drawing, proportion etc), because I'm sure I can always improve, no matter how complacent I think I am.. all I have to do is have a look at some professional work before I realise how much more I need to understand things. For example, I can draw reasonable looking hands, but they are far from the dynamic looking hands that I've seen professional artists do. Anyway, I'd love to improve in some areas like colouring, combinations of colours etc.. [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/sprofilepic.asp?pic=37_WomanOils.jpg&news=362&i…"]Malus's picture[/url] was very cool, how he put lighter blues for colder parts of the females face etc...

quote:Originally posted by Pantmonger

The rule I go by is that every picture I do must have somthing in it that I have not done before or something that I find hard.

That's a pretty good rule. I might try that on the speedpaint challenge cuz even though i start out with a picture in mind, it somehow manages to gravitate towards things (subject, poses) i have already mastered (kinda). I totally hate when that happens, cuz u look back after the hour or so u spent drawing the piece, then think "holy crap, i just drew the exact same thing yesterday".

As for drawing women, it's always good to keep a reference out on the desk, just to help guide you in your creation. After i was advised to do this, my drawings of females improved heaps. But reference for drawing in general is a must. All the comic pro's do it (especially alex ross), even the disney artists have marquettes to go by. It just goes to show that even the pro's have weaknesses.

Souri: Cheers buddy [:D] I feel all special now lol.

Im not very good at drawing house and building but I havent realy draw ..I find the best way to draw hands is to imagin that with onl

Anything with angles, perspective, lines... graphics type drawings I am fine with. People I don't think I'm all that bad, but I have a hard time capturing realistic facial likeness. While certainly not a pro, many people including art teachers have commented on my drawing skills, so I guess I can't be all that bad! :P Looking forward to the speed paint tomorrow night... It will be interesting to see how I go in Photoshop, I barely ever use it for actual drawings!

I tend to draw characters the most. I feel I am concious about anatomy most of the time however I have a cartoony style. My biggest weakness is technical drawing such as scenes with perspective and vehicles. My biggest challenge is turning off my pc and actually going and drawing somthing with pencil and paper. Need to draw more from life dammit!

When drawing human forms I always have trouble with feet and lower legs. I usually cover it up with some bulky boots or something and that does the trick!

I love drawing the human form too. I wish I had time to go and do some real life drawing again. That was real fun. We got to draw a huge range of body types using different materials. From old ladies, to men and females. Sometimes we had to capture them entirely within 30 seconds. It was great.

I've been heading along to life drawing hosted by QPix over at Wooloongabba. It'll be my second session tonight if I get along. More info here: http://www.qa.org.au/

Should get a buncha Sumeans along. $10 for non-members is pretty goodly.

Just a bit of science to plug away here behind the whole creative drawing aspect.

The brain is comprised of two hemispheres, the left and the right. The left controls technical reasoning, mathematical judgement and spatial awareness whereas the right side controls pretty much everything creative.

People who are "left brained" are usually engineers, architects, mathmaticians, scientists and the like while people who are right brained are pretty much all artists in some form or another. Therefore if you're able to draw perspective easily and able to picture things in 3D without needing to draw them then you're more left brained and are less likely to be able to draw natural/organic shapes easily. If you are more "right brained" then you'll find concepts such as perspective challenging but will be able to draw realistic organic objects.

Unfortunately for a large chunk of people (including myself), we never realised that art/design/3D could be so rewarding until it was too late and are stuck with VERY meager drawing skills I, for one, don't get any better at all with my drawing no matter how much I attempt to practice it. I am able to very easily visualise objects in 3D space but can't portray that on paper because of my attempted melding of the two hemispheres of the brain (going from doing technical subjects such as physics, engineering and graphics at school to needing things like art and design at uni is painful).

In other news, I would be interested in going to those life drawing lessons when I get a bit better at drawing and can afford them :S

I actually quite like doing technical drawings as I took a tech drawing/graphic design class all through school. It used to bore me but I'm quite glad now that I can drawing machinery etc. to a good standard.

What I do have trouble with is parts of women. Usually with the lower face - lips (hard to look feminine), jawline (hard to look soft) and chin. Hairstyles aren't too bad, providing I've got some sort of reference.

My anatomy is pretty good, as I've got muscularity down pretty well now, but my knowledge of the veins is pretty weak. No better way to make someone look tough than to have a few bulging bicep veins. Having said that, the tendons in the hand provide a bit of trouble from time to time as well.

Of course, like most others here, drawing these things with a reference is easy, but trying to draw from your head is the tough part.

JPK

I think at the end of the day, so long as it looks like it works, it doesnt matter where u put the veins or the extra muscle (people do this alot on backs) because unless ur a full bottle on the subjects true proportions and technicalities, nobody's gonna know you cheated. And if nobody knows, where is the harm?

Jonathan, unless ur sketch jobs are for something exact, so long as ur proportions are right, and u have a modest idea on anatomy, u shouldnt sweat the small stuff. And if u don't believe me, Joe Maduriera never took an anatomy class in his life, and his work still rocks.

quote:Originally posted by trankillity

Unfortunately for a large chunk of people (including myself), we never realised that art/design/3D could be so rewarding until it was too late and are stuck with VERY meager drawing skills I, for one, don't get any better at all with my drawing no matter how much I attempt to practice it.

I've read a story about a 40-45yr old who decided to pick up painting as a new hobby, even though they've never painted before in their life. He became quite competant within a few years of practise (and I'm talking about some really *great* looking paintings - I wish I could remember his name so yuo can look up his work). It's never too late, I reckon! (I'm actually looking forward to when I'm 60 and I can sit down and paint all day)

No, it's never too late. But being schooled in either left/right brain psychology makes it a lot harder to pick up.

my grandmother took up oils at the age of 76 and is practically a master at the age of 77 !!!

hands... bloody hands, closely followed by bare feet.
I can never get the shape or placement of the joints right.

Max 5 has stuff like that, haven't really looked at it yet though.

I recall a flouro light tube plugin for older versions of Max (v 2.0, 2.5 or 3.0). I can't remember it's name though, unfortunately. Worth searching on google for I guess..

Thanks souri ill have a shearch tomorrow :)(bedy-buys time) sorry so late replying have been working on a stupid prototype for golf motion capture thing (animating and modeling it)..Carnt realy say any more than that under a seacrecy agreement. and I am using Max5.1 redwyre but thanks anyway

A lot of modellers create their meshes using spline cages, nurbs or other similar higher poly tools, because it is easier to create smooth, flowing surfaces than with working from an editable mesh from the start. Of course the result is transferred into a normal mesh at the end, but the edge inside the quads is left hidden. I find when working on a model of around 3000-4000 tris, its less messy if you leave these edges hidden. When you display your wireframe mesh, leaving these edges hidden just looks better :) I can assure you that most modellers will check that all of these edges are oriented well though.

Also, leaving these edges hidden makes it easier to use Meshsmooth later on, as it relies on quads to smooth the model properly.

Major Clod: Interesting that you say alot of modellers use spline or nurbs to model, I've only come across one, everyone else has been editable mesh/poly modellers.

Just curious how many people use these ways of modelling? I'm a max/maya poly modeller predominently even when its higher poly models.

Redwyre: Its just when artist pimp work to their peers its more about the 'look' than the efficiency, we of course find efficiency important, its still a major part of a modellers role but doesnt make others go, oooh aaaahh. lol

Hmm... I guess maybe I have that impression because I learnt a lot of my skills from tutorials and people that used spline type techniques. Although I originally started to model with editable mesh tools, I've found myself using spline based tools more often to create my initial mesh... especially if it has a lot of curved surfaces. I don't use editable poly that much at all.

I do all my stuff with edit poly in max5.1. Can't beat it. I find with splines, you can't control the density of the mesh in areas where lots of parts meet like the fingers, groin and armpits.

As for why people keep things in quads. It might have something to do with the way 3d engines light the models. If your trianges arn't arranged in a roughly quad like fashion, then it can create lighting artefacts. This is mostly apparent on large smooth areas like the chest and thighs.

You can test it by animating a light to spin around your model in the viewport and watching how the light is picked up by the polys.

:)

But the point is that the model will end up in a game, so the way it looks in the modeling program is irrelavant (IMO at least).

Building in spline cages? Nurbs? Similar high poly tools?

no no no we're still living in low-poly worlds with low-poly characters...to reduce a polygonised model from nurbs et al is futile, and twice as much work.

Simple primitives are first made, then extruded, bent, warped, vertices welded etc to conjoin primitives. Guaranteed low polys, plus simplicity and low mistake / corruption factor. btw The default settings for Max and Maya are quads with hidden interior edges.

This is also beneficial to game artists because the maps they create in Photoshop are usually square, or rectangular, and seeing the applied map and extent of UV's on a quad is clearest with a hidden dividing edge.

Simply put, the inside edges are mostly of no use.

If the game engine you are using is calculating it's lights with vertex lighting, your going to be getting similar lighting in game to your viewport.

If it's using shadow maps, or normal maps, then sure, it becomes irrelevant.

Hmmm... no idea myself, but this could lead you to the wonderment of incremental saves. A cool feature of 3dsmax is that when you save your file, say mywork01.max, yuo can then go to Save As... and then click the + button above the Save button, and it'll automatically increment the number (in this case, mywork02.max)

Hope you can recover your file dude.

you can try "merging" the file.. I find that can sometimes help get into corrupted files.

maybe you have a working autoback?
no harm in checking.
nannoo nannoo

heheh thanks for ur help guys !! but i did lose my work because i forgot to turn on incremental files ( how stupid of me :( ) aww wells dats another stupid lesson i learnt !!!

once again thank you.....

you guys r legends =)

http://cube.phlatt.net/home/spiraloid/

Look in the movies section and watch the video of the face and the one of the upper half of a body, they are like demonstrations rather than step by step basic tutorials which is what it sounds like you want. they are awesome, made me heaps better at modelling, i rewatch them all the time when i'm working on heads. You should look through the whole site too, it's Bay Raitt's site and he is a legend at poly modelling (he did golem's face on LOTR btw), there is some great tutorials on there.

awesome thanks animal :)

also try 3dbuzz.com 3dmax vtm covers head[:)]

Heres a character modeling tutorial you might be interested in. Its for max and is very good if your just starting out.

http://www.geocities.com/doord/Tut_1.htm

Phwooar... I want this!
http://www.di-o-matic.com/products/Plugins/Hercules/

Now thats what we need!! I was just commented to a student the other day that that would be a goos way to go. [:P]

Again on Character rigging in Maya.. There's a detailed 54 page PDF file on rigging a character in Maya here.. Check it out anyway even if you don't have Maya.. http://www.subvoicestudios.com/tutorials.htm

Go Here
http://www.polykarbon.com/

and here

http://www.merekatcreations.com/

Hell, I've even got a tute.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/evilbunny/Jagged/Tute01_ColourInk.htm

Hope that helped

Pantmonger

Thanks Pantmonger they look good. I like your model for the challenge, can't wait to see it skinned.

Here's a great tutorial which might help.. http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/cottages/bk-coffeehouse/tut-max-ma…

Dan - Step four would be "collapse mesh and repeat"
every so often using just an unwrap uw modifier to lay the flats out.

I just use the unwrap modifier alone now in Max 5, as its easier than doing the whole UWV map modifier dance. You can just add a Unwrap modifier on your mesh then do it all in one place. [:P]

Ok cool thanks guys thats more or less what i have been doing, i guess i was just hoping that i was missing something because its such a bitch of a job :)

UVW mapping is one of those things that everytime I do it I think, god there has to be a less annoying way then this.
Maybe there is and people are just keeping quiet about it.
But for the most part every short cut I have seen for UVW mapping makes me wince at the quality of the final product. So I'll just do it the old time consuming, annoying as hell way until something truly better comes along.

Pantmonger

I don't know if there is a easy way to do this.
1: Copy your model and drop it right on top of your exsiting model, name it something silly like del.

2: Make a material that is white, tick the wireframe box for that material and up the self illumination to 100. Place this material on del.

3: Select all the faces on del and use face extrude to expand them so the white wire model is just bigger then the model under it. (You can quick render whle doing this to see if you have it right.)

Render.

Hope that Helped.
Pantmonger

Ack that sounds like a lot of farting around, thanks for answering though. :)

i take i you dont use max for your modelling then pants?

No, I am a Max user.

Oh and it sounds like more effort then it is, it only takes about 30 sec to do. And if you want to realy optimise you can always store the white 100 luminosity wire texture in the libary for all future models.

Pantmonger

render a white square with a thin black border and use it as a btimap material, tick face map

Peter Gillespie
www.3dluvr.com/eagor

alternatively, you could chuck a lattice modifier on the model

Peter Gillespie
www.3dluvr.com/eagor

or you could use edgemap from snotmonster http://www.snotmonster.com/

Abobe Photoshop, but Id be surprised if that wasn't standard also.

Pantmonger

Shiptu: Do you mean which plugins or which software?

Plugins: as you said texporter, dont really use mesh tools now that max has a decent poly modelling system. Don't really have any other plugins that I use alot for lowpoly maybe shag hair for higher stuff.

Software: Max, Maya, Photoshop, Deep paint 3D, Painter.

software: max(5), maya, photoshop, lightwave
plugins; i used meshtools when i was using max4 but now max5s tools do well, texporter.
and then shaghair.

what abot mankua plugs?, flatten.
i use my textporter plugs and the new max 5 tools @ the same time.
has anybody played with maxon body paint with texture weapons?
im a max user and i have afew gripes about its flatten option if you could make changes to max what would they be?

nannoo nannoo

havent used mankua plugs yet.

Dont know what youre getting at when you say you use textporter with max 5, so do I am I missing something?

Ive used deep paint 3D with texture weapons, is that what you mean?

As for changing max, well after using maya for a bit now I prefer there uvw mapping so implement the interactive nature of that and better animation systems, apart from that shes a sweet program.

ive only brushed on maya and was amazed at the possibilities,im wondering as maya gets cheaper and max becomes more expensive when the game companies will change over.
deep paint seems like a good alternative to me to the lengthly procedure of mapping involved in max.
as primarily a max user and with a limited time schedule i cant waste time learning new applications which prove to be fruitless, so i get a grasp on more productive less time consuming applications from heresay and reputation.
max has an amazing amount of plugins out there many that are used primarily for our field and there is nothing more frustrating than some one telling you "oh if you use this plugin it does it all for you" and you get a vision of months of menial labour you have done for no real reason.

I don't think that UVW mapping/unwrapping can ever be fully replaced by a plug in, a lot of it comes down to 'feel', Does the artist think that this bit of skewing on this poly is ok but not on the other because a decal has to go there, type stuff. So I think good texture mapping will always be a needed skill.

Pantmonger

I only use plugins for thing that help me work better, like textporter. Not for doing things that you should be able to do by your self like uvw mapping, Pants is right its to varied for a plugin to be all that effective.
Deep paint still needs you to uvw map I think just is easier to paint on a 3d model than a flat, but I personally prefer doing it on the flats anyway.

As for companies changing to Maya, don't know if they will all change especially since an upgrade for Max is still cheaper than buying a new product, mainly new companies seting up will choose it at the start.

Max is still the leader in low poly modelling in my eyes, Maya was primarily used for film, if Maya keeps adding useful functionality to the low poly end of its tools Max may be on the slow march out.

I've been using the Kaldera beta quite a bit lately http://www.mankua.com/kaldera.cfm

It's good for baking textures and has a normal map material for Max5 that lets you render out with normal maps. Good for previewing.

Aside from that, Photoshop and painter sometimes.

Max, Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro are my Basics

Texporter is about the only plugin that I use.

I still use max, texporter, and photoshop. I've tried deep paint alongside it's brother deep uv (if that's its right name), but was not to impressed with it to be honest. Deep uv makes does awkward stuff with the coordinates and deep paint (in my opinion) is terrible and awkward to use. I was only using it for a brief ammount of time and therefore might have been going about it all the wrong way, but I'd recommend texporter over it anyday.