Artists

I like the website, clean and easy to navigate.

However you may want to be more selective with the work you show. Some of the mesh work is really not even worth looking at.

Yeah nice and easy website to look at - nice and neutral not too detracting from the actual artwork, although i have to agree with rahnem - some of the pieces in there you might want to remove - only show work you certain is your best :)

cheers 4 the comments ill have to work on some more stuff to put up there!
colm

nice website. About the content, I've been told its bad to show stuff that is obviously the result of a following along with a tutorial. I can see the joan of arc Buzz ones here. Anyonelse have thoughts on this? Good work on the mouse btw :)

Yah a few models are from tuts, mainly just those two i think, and the mouse is meant to be a gerbil, :P
i haven?t really herd before that its bad to show work from tuts, has anyone else herd of this ??
thanks
Colm

I think I read somewhere that work done from tutes isn?t really demonstrating artistic ability very well ? I mean most artists could make a great model by following a tute, but employers want someone who can create original content.

That?s not to say that your tute models aren?t good though! I just don?t think it?s a very good idea to put content made from tutorials in your folio ? or maybe you could label them as tutorial work or something? Just my humble opinion anyway. [:)]

I?m actually doing that Joan of Arc tutorial myself ATM, and if mine ends up looking as good as your?s, I?ll be most happy!

-nice folio BTW [:)]

Make sure your site is free of grammatical errors. I haven't checked it yet, but it's a personal peeve of mine.

hey doyle, as palantir said, I wasn't saying your work was bad, infact its quite good! just throwing some ideas around. and hehe, gerbal mouse, same diff [;)]

cheers for the comments guys !
denz any comments are good ones i think, ppls idea's should b herd !

thanks
Colm

I dont think you should have the joan of arc in there, cos it was done with a tutorial and if it wasn't then thats what would be assumed. But the gerbil is cool :)

Definitely don't use anythign from a text book.

Model some new things, specially some "different" things to what everyone else models.

I mean, come up with new interesting characters. Movement animations are good too. It shows you can design bones, joints .. etc.

Start offering help on game mods like at www.flipcode.com, www.gamedev.com, www.gamedev.net .. etc That will get your game dev experience (credits)

1) One thing you could do is copy a row of pixels from one side of the seam and place it on the other... just give both sides of the seam the same pixel density. Any other painting could be sampled from that row too. You'd run into problems if your uv's weren't arranged either horizontally or vertically.. but you could manage.

2) Well smudge and blur helps with smooth textures. Anything with pixel level detail eg noise, material patterns etc you'd run in to problems. Best trick is to put the seams in the right places.

3) Yes i know i'm not Joel or Dean but hope that helps a little.

I work out a pallette that i'll be using.. this way, I'll *know* what colours i'll be using for highlights/shadows/midtones etc.. These generally find their way onto unmapped areas of my texture as blobs of colour for easy eye droppage.

Sounds fairly obvious. But people generally smudge the hell out of things.. This creates a lot of different colours and tones which is one possible reason for why your seams appear.
Keep your original set of colours handy, you can then quickly revert things - then carefully work the detail in to create a seamless piece of love.

In terms of placement in regards to your unwrap.. It definately helps to place seams on the inside. Think of your model in game space - areas of the mesh that point outwards are bad places for seams - shoulder to elbow for example - as this is generally the most visible piece of the body.. Put the seam from the armpit to elbow instead..

Another trick is to work the seams into your texture.. Not always a viable option, but it can work well for things like pants..

The last thing I can think of off the top of my head - and you'll hate this - is the P word. Practice..

Thanks to the both of you - yeah placement ive got worked out, and i also have learnt through trial and error about the palette of colours ;) thanks bob!

but i have to admit - ive fallen foul to the smudge beast too many times now - and thats where im going wrong, once ive smudged a bit... it turns into a neverending smudgefest to get the seem blending JUUUSST right ;)

Ill just keep practising [:)]

I usually just sample and paint, but for those extra tricksy seams, I lasso, copy and transform on an edge-by-edge basis to use as a guide -- and then do the same sample and paint and clean it all up.

quote:Originally posted by HazarD


2 ) are there any tricks, that youd care to share ( ive heard about using the smudge & blur tools along the edges of seems to try cover them up a bit ) for making the seems blend nice and smoothly ?

Eeep, smudge and blur tools to cover seems? Don't do it! The clone tool (Photoshop) is perfect for getting rid of seams. [:)] Select the clone tool (underneath the bandaid icon), click on alt to choose the area you want to clone, let go and click the area where you want to stamp the copy (the seam area). Select different areas to clone so you're not always using the same source.

Well ill be jiggered.

Souri reveals some tricks,... i had no idea - your method works a charm :) thanks for sharing !![8)]

Joel - that lasso trick works a treat !! - thanks for sharing man [8)]

Thanks a bunch guys - ill show some of my work again soon, alot more improved than my last efforts. [8D]

be carefull with the clone tool, i havent used it all that much but it seems on some settings or something it trys to compensate for the kind of lightining conditions or something and ends up not cloning directly but creating a lighter version or soemthing that stands out like a sore thumb, but with a bit of editing its all smooth :D

Actually even better than the clone tool is using the heal tool (PS 7.0 and up only I think), it feathers the edges and tries to blend with the layer below. Lovely. [:P]

To be honest I tend to paint the edges further than needed and then just replicate those extra edges of the texture to the other side of the seam and continue painting from were it ends that way your not painting near the actual seam, you get better results but its more work.

Also for good seam fixes its a must, a must! that the edges of the seam be 'exactly' the same length. Also its good if you don't rotate the edges to much as well.

Yeah I've used it, the latest version is alot better but the paint tools are just way to fiddly and unprecise for my liking.
I'd prefer to just make the edge seams correctly and use photoshop, in the end its easier than all the work getting the model from the package to deep paint and painting it with a substandard paint program.

well i like it .. and its slightly better than the first one but u still carnt paint and see alpha channels in the vewport ..its quick and easy to use if u lern the keyboard short cuts.. its a million times better than body paint that things just stupid

here's another paint tool I found out about the other day, ghostpainter.

[URL]http://www.cebas.com/products/products.asp?UD=10-7888-33-788&PID=5[/URL]

supports unwrapping to photoshop paths, all sorts of bodypaint functionality but you use photoshop insead of another paint program. a nice tool but you could do without [:)]

Haven't tried the newest versions of any of those programs. I just use Photoshop. I used DeepPaint and BodyPaint a few years ago, back in 2000 and I couldn't stand the stupid things.

-Wes

[url]http://www.weslouie.com[/url]

amen Wes -- still haven't found a viable successor for the speed, functionality, and ease-of-use, of just using straight round brushes in photoshop. I have a "just paint it instead of screwing around with technical bullshit" mentality when it comes to this sort of thing though so I'm probably biased [:)]

Ive started to use deep paint a little bit, and im by no means a texture expert (ive only un rapped and textured a few models) it seems to work well usually i paint in the main areas, highlights, shadows, etc in deep paint then go to photoshop.

yeha ill help u out!! been meaning to stuff aroud with baking some more ...last time i used it i was getting some unwanted results too .. can u put up some pics of your problem ?? or maybe a test file or somthing???

1 : i only just got into it myself, but making your own brushes is ok - i just think about the texture im trying to achieve and imagine what i need to make it.. and make one to suit... although you can pretty much get anything you want with the photoshop 7.0 brushes.

2 : i use it - but only minimally to clean up seems, to blur sharp lines etc.

3 : dodge and burn, not to much though - just for small high / low lights etc.

Thanks hazard, I'm stuck with PS 6 for the moment, I'll look into Dodge and burn, haven't really touched that yet.

Wis: to add to HazarD's comments, dodge and burn are photographic terms relating to over and under exposing areas of photographic paper. this info will probably help when you try to work out how and where to use these tools. Smudge is a 'painting' effect- don't know about texturing, but for painting effects it can be very useful. I use it mostly for smokey effects with (what i consider) good results, and difficult to achieve other ways. Smoke on my DragonHound (see exhibition section) sketch was done mostly with the smudge tool

Use any tools that get the effects you are after. The combinations of tools and filters is so vast in photoshop that the makers don't even know the limits of the program! So experimentation may produce results that no one else has ever discovered.

only piece of advice on technique I'd really want to ever offer someone is this:

Know how to paint it manually before you use a tool.

The point being if you are wanting to call yourself an artist, you should have artistic knowledge first, not technical knowledge.

thats a pretty decent point - ive done a few paintings before, and a crap load of pencil sketches - long before i started painting and doodling with computer generated art...

in saying that tho - only like a 6 weeks ago have i started to use a tablet , and ill never go back to using a mouse to paint stuff computerwise :D...

I should definately keep up the painting tho... thanks for raising that point JI.

hehe, I should really clarify that - I've been getting out a lot of half thoughts recently due to trying to post quick and dirty [:)]

With that said... PREPARE FOR RANT! WOO!

My personal opinion is that digital art is just another medium to realise your vision, just like charcoal, or oils, or markers. That's why we can call ourselves artists, just as an oil painter does, instead of calling ourselves "pixel engineers" or the like.

My statement before was more directed within the medium - "Know how to paint it manually before you use a tool."
What I mean by this, is don't just use tools. Understand why you're doing it, and why it works the way it does. To do this, I believe you have to first know how to achieve the results manually, through artistic knowledge.
A good example being before you dodge in a highlight, grab a hard round brush (arguably the most basic of tools in this media), and laying out colours you pick on the fly, changing the size of the brush, and using the alt key to sample colours and tones... paint it. Do you understand what you're doing, and how to make the look you want with just your knowledge?

Once you understand this, it's where a lot of artists have an epiphany - "hang on... I know what colour and tonal range a curved brass surface is in this light, and I know what colour it's highlight should be... and dodge ain't anywhere near that!"

It seems like when people understand this, they also appreciate the fact that the computer shouldn't be doing the work for them. How does the computer know that the highlight or shadow should be that colour? It doesn't. It's wrong, and you know it.

So what's the point to all this? Something pretty simple actually - be an artist - not an operator.

Point taken JI, I realise now more than ever that if I'm to be able to texture well then artistic knowledge is what I need, but I was still hoping you could answer my queries, you know, just to give me a nudge in the right direction.

hehe, sorry, got caught up in the moment [;)]
Here's my own personal answers to your questions... I'm trying to answer these in a way that if I was starting out again I would've liked to have heard first [:)] A lot of it is stuff I was teaching in the little lectures I was doing at the AIE last year:

1. To what extent do you guys use custom brushes?
Next to never... only really used them in experimenting to find out whether or not they're worth using.

2. Is it a good or bad idea to use the smudge tool?
smudging is good for what it does - used in a practical way, it's a very useful tool. Just don't overdo it! I've seen people try and paint/texture/draw using smudge for 50% of the work, then ask what the "secret technique is" for sharpening their textures up [;)]

3. What other tools should I be focusing on using, and for what purpose?
It may sound silly, but I believe these are the most important tools:
- Hard round brush, with pressure sensitive opacity
don't be timid with painting - slap shit all over the place! Don't be precious if you feel something's not right, and draw straight over something if you want to improve on it instead of trying to polish a mess.

- navigation
No, I'm not joking, use those shortcuts and speed up your productivity!
space+click+drag, space+ctrl+click, space+alt+click, space+ctrl+drag

- navigator window
Again... no joke. Use it as a previewer for your image/texture in the way a traditional painter may take a few steps back to look at their painting as a whole. Make it look good as a whole image before you make it look good as a lot of disjointed detailed little parts.

Things -not- to concentrate on:
-layer blending
The second cheapest effects you can spot a mile away :)
-filters
The absolute first cheapest effects you can spot 10 miles away :)
-layers
try and stop being precious and try to just paint what you want in there instead of fiddling around with 20 layers to get the same effect [;)]

all of this is of course my own personal thoughts and opinions and sums up how I pretty much work, so the last thing I should stress is... take it all with a grain of salt [:)] find your comfortable zone and what works for you.

i have to agree with the layers thing - ji caught me at a bad moment a few weeks back when i was complaining about my puter running slow... and haveing a massive photoshop file for a texture... it was because i had like 122 layers.. .. moving on,...

now i paint on 3 - 4 max usually :D thanks for that ji :)

1. To what extent do you guys use custom brushes?

Vary rarely, I use them occasionally but for the most part I just use the solid circular brushes. I sometimes use other brushes to achieve specific effects, like the chalk brush for certain textures, stuff like that but I make such decisions on a case by case basis.

2. Is it a good or bad idea to use the smudge tool?

I like the smudge tool, but only for certain things like hair, I like the way it tapers.

3. What other tools should I be focusing on using, and for what purpose?

I will add an opinion of certain things that JI mentioned in this area.

Filters: I do not think they are the devil they are often portrayed as, but you need to know what you are doing. It is rare that through the straight up application of any filter that the result will look good. But correctly applied, altered and built upon, filters can help your create certain effects faster then you otherwise could. Just be careful with them.

Layers: I?m on the other end of the opinion ladder when it comes to layers. I find that by being able to place different areas of colour/ materials on different layers and lock the transparency on them it overall speeds up your production as it means that you don?t have to be careful close to edges and the like. Layers also give you the equivalent of a large collection of undo steps. Ie, by slapping another layer on you can paint over section you have already done, try adding different elements etc and if it all looks like crap then delete that layer and you have your image back the way it was.

Pantmonger

pants: that's actually all I use layers for nowadays too [:)] as another "layer" of undo for trying stuff out over something I'm not too sure about.
Best example of layer abuse I can think of is is when we need to look at the UK's PSD's at work - it's a chaotic mix of folders and layers within layers of photos and blending effects. The layers number in the hundreds. Takes about 10 mins to load a simple 512x512 texture sheet [:)]

Awesome man, I appreciate those tips very muchly, I never would have thought that a hard round brush would be the tool of choice for professionals such as yourselves :)

I already agree with you on the layer effects, I've never used them for anything but what you describe.

JI, I know what you're saying about the smudge tool, I already feel I overused it when texturing my competition entry, but it did help me out a lot with shading and gradients.

Once again, thanks a bunch, and to keep you happy JI ;) I'm looking to do some more lifedrawing classes and maybe a short course in art somewhere.

Yay for softcore por... I mean life drawing! [:D]
Naw, life drawing is probably one of -the- best investments that anyone who wants to call themselves an artist can make. Yes, even better than that berret and stick on goatee.

My goatee is real thank you very much, only my berret is fake.

Pantmonger

You forgot the black sweater and false sense of arrogance. Hwoah Hwoah (you know the sound of a French laughing :) )

1. quite a bit but only for very particular uses. It's as easy to make things look rubbish with custom brushes as with the standard ones :)

2. Invaluable in certain situations, but no replacement for careful colour picking. Sort of like driving a bulldozer over the forms of yer image if you don't watch yourself..

3. erm - there are lots of tools in photoshop, and you can use any of them to achieve many things, but the main thing is knowing what you're trying to do and which tools you'd prefer to utilise - I reckon that you should try not to overcomplicate things with crazy brushes and stuff - pick a brush you like and learn to use it, pick a tool you fancy and learn what it can do..

not very helpful I suppose, but I reckon it's all about getting your hands dirty and learning whats best for you. - like mr styles said - stick to the hard round for a bit and get the swing of that one - then diversify at your own pace.

oh yeah, and beware the filters (although highpass has its uses..) ;-)

meh, what the hell.

1. Never!! just straight up defualt brushes, the soft ones. And airbrush too, none of that paint brush crap! ;)

2. It can be good, to help smooth shading but I never seem to need it.

3. Forget the tools, focus on the fundamentals like many have said. Learn how to paint first, then learn how to use a painting program second.

This is awesome, didn't think I'd get this many responses, thanks to all who replied. I'm going away for a short holiday this week with my sketch book, a few pencils and a 24 pack of derwents to work on my colouring and drawing skills, should be very helpful.

I bought 3D Studio Max R3 with Character Studio a few years back when it came out. Got it for a student price of $199. I would have been in year 11 then I'd imagine.

Lightwave cheaper than max and maya, maya is cheaper than max, max is the most expensive now. 3dsmax does have a 30 day trial version. I am pretty sure you can get student discounts.

aren't the student versions cut down tho ? ie loss of some functionality ?

Bullet - Maya has two versions available. You may want to actually check prices before saying that Maya is cheaper than Max. Maya Complete is cheaper than Max, but Maya Unlimited is much more expensive.

Max has had licencing changes over the last few years, so I can't comment on that. When I bought Max 3.1 ages ago (year 11), I was able to qualify for a student version as my art teacher wrote a letter to say it was to further my studies. They basically needed proof that I was using it for educational reasons.

It is very difficult to get a 'student' licence to Maya as one doesn't exist. They have Commercial and Academic. Academic is meant for institutions and as such you can't buy a single licence. They only sell licences in blocks (I'm pretty sure that the AIE had to buy at least 20 copies at once). Pricing for Maya is fairly difficult as we don't actually have an Australian Alias department. There are three companies in Aus (that I know of) that are Authorised resellers for Maya. You basically contact the mand they will take the American price, convert it, add in GST and delivery charges. They then give you a pricing quote. That means that the strength of the Aus dollar can impact the cost of Maya quite substantally. It is also worth noting that an academic licence to Maya only lasts a year. The commercial licence is life time (like most titles). I deal with Storm FX (www.stormfx.com.au) for all my Maya needs. I suggest either contacting them or even better, Alias to find out if you would be able to purchase an academic version. Just a note that a comercial licence to Maya rounds to roughly be 4k for Complete and 12k for Unlimited.

I have no idea at all about Lightwave licences and how to aquire them. I would greatly recommend talking to Newtek about that. When in doubt, contact the makers, not people on forums. Blaming people on forums when you get busted for wrong licences won't save you :)

HazarD - Most student/academic versions of software don't have limitations feature wise. The main difference is that with student versions, you are not allowed to use the software for any kind of commercial gain (hence why they are also called 'commercial free' licences). That means no freelancing to try to make a bit of extra cash while you study :'( Commercial means that you own it for the time of the licence agreement (life time or yearly as the case can be). You can do with it as you please. Make as much many and generally pimp yourself out to whomever :)

Hi Acer

I won a Copy of Max 6 from the AGDC in Melboune in November last year, It's a full licence copy and I called
StormFX in Canberra to see what it was worth. It sells for about $7000, Character Studio 4 (which you have to pay separately) is about $1500.

Cheers

quote:Originally posted by HazarD

aren't the student versions cut down tho ? ie loss of some functionality ?

I bought 3DSMax v3.0 + CS v2.0 for $200 too, the academic version. The difference I found is that you cannot release your work commercially (i.e. make money with your work) withe the academic version. I'm not sure about functionality though. v3.0 is a while ago though [:D]

cool thanks for those replies aven / morphine - lookx like im going out to buy me a academic version :)

$10 cheap! that is why I don't go to central! $6 at some other places[:p]

I understand that Melb has a big life drawing scene. Was told that there are even lessons for people who want to be models! Tell you friend to ask at any art supplies shop or phone local community centres. That will provide some leads. once at one group she will be able to find out about other groups (many drawers go to multiple groups.) Could be worth trying out different groups, if it is like Adelaide each group will be different in 'flavour'.

Hey Manboy, or should I say CHRISTOPHER TYERMAN!?!?! Heh, it's cool man, I'm not a stalker, just a fellow DLF member. (you did post that message didn't you? If not it's one amazing coincidence)

There used to be one in Hawthorn, just south of Hawthorn Station, Mon night i think. Can't remember the name of the lady that ran it though. Ask around at any Melb art school though and they'll probably be able to tell you.

i could find out for you if i remember, im starting one in like a month or two so ill try to remember to ask the guy whos setting it up a few details.

Hi Wizened. I recognised you when I downloaded your showreel from another thread on these forums ("Gah, I already have this one.")

Thanks for the tips, guys, and MoonUnit, if you did that for me I'd be real grateful.

John: you from Adelaide too? What places besides ACSA would you suggest? (I wouldn't mind going to these things more than once a week myself)

Hehe, sorry about that Manboy, just trying to spread the word.

Adelaide- yes

Eastwood Community Centre, Glen Osmond Road (I'm currently going there). Tuesdays
Hubby Court (community art centre), Burnnside. Thursdays
Margaret Street, Nth Adelaide (haven't been there, don't know). Wednesdays
There might be a group in Mitcham, don't know their details, very old people I think.
SEAS (art studios) in Hindley St were running a group, might still be.

Fingers crossed Box Factory will restart in the city, that was on Fridays.

Aparrently it is possible to do life drawing everyday of the week!

prices for eastwood & hubby court are $6 and start at 7pm.

Wicked John. Maybe we'll run into one another at Eastwood.

I'll keep an eye out for someone fitting the description of a manboy!

sorry man, i aint gonna know details of the one ill be at untill like two weeks.

Vray4free is the only free one I've ever heard of. Is this where you're going? http://www.vrayrender.com/download/ Their site is working fine for me.

IT's says that "the page cannot be displayed" i've tried refreshing and get the ssame error

Then it syas cannot find server down the bottom.

Is there anywhere else i can get it.

your firewall might be cranked up really high man .... try toning it down a notch for a bit and then giving it another crack. either that or their down...

how do you turn the firewall down

........don't worry i got it working, it was te firewall thanx hazard

Sweet guys I had no idea this existed :)

Hey Guys,

I've got one called E-Light, Don't know where to get it on the net and haven't
bothered looking, but if you want it, Just send me and e-mail to skullsqud@hotmail.com
and I'll send it to Joo, it's only 26k.

qantm offers maya shortcourses i do believe... at least they used to.....

I think the monashe Multimedia Systems course teaches maya. There was a guy who used to be on this forum called ironhideNT, he told me the monash course taught MAya and Max.

kanganbatman tafe offers a short course in maya and ive heard a number of industry people teach there [:)] there are a couple of other unis starting up on maya so its worth asking which of them do it...

hope that helps...

Thanks for the replies. From my reading of the course outline the online Qantm course focuses on 3D Studio Max. Kangan Tafe teaches Max too. I'm not sure about Monash (I found it very difficult to navigate their site). However, I've discovered that the Computer Graphics College in Melbourne teaches Maya... one of very few in Australia it seems...

Yeah hey, sorry about the late reply...

The Monash site sucks and they usually say something like "3D graphics" and never specifically say what software.

Over round Monash Berwick 1st year subjects usually involve 3DS Max,
second year and beyond subjects like this one http://www.monash.edu.au/pubs/handbooks/subjects/MMS2405.html
use Maya....but yeah we've got lecturers with 3DS Max, Maya and lightwave experience here, so i suppose your free to pick and choose.

I found Monash Caufield has 3D subjects too involving other 3D principles. I haven't done any but from the people i've asked they reckon they use 3DS Max

Thanks IronHideNT. What course are you doing?

Hey man,

Yeah I'm doing the bachelor of Multimedia...which they've changed this year to multimedia systems majoring in applications, business, computing and gaming....all very confusing now.

Oh and don't forget if your interested (And you too bullet21) about Multimedia (I'd hate to give plugs) but make sure you come round to the Uni open day in around July/August. (Not sure about date but ill keep you posted)

I'm generally one of the many friendly tour guides on hand to show people round the uni and through the work that we do round here.

Yes, hard to believe, but I AM friendly[:p]

Thanks IronhideNT!

heh heh i know someone doing the course with you ironhideNT, but hes a first year so probably not in your class/group.

yeah i think that's what it is, using scanned images and photos as textures.

By definition photosourcing is sourcing material from a photo of any kind. Whether this be copy pasting one straight into the texture, using it as a base to start from, or using it as an overlay to cheat in some extra detail.

So no photosourcing means you're not allowed to do any of that - it has to be all of your own original work.

Gotcha. Thanks, people. Sorry to whichever mod had to move this thread; I wasn't sure what to file it under.

yup theres heaps of people grabbing it, heard about it on tuesday, i think ill have a go at making a HL2 compatible model in the near distant future.

On a sidenote - Bullet21 im working on that Orc engineer Concept, once ive got it to a satisfactory stage - ill build him and do that unwrapping tut for you :D

ooohhhh yeah, thanx mate. youre aaaallllrrrriiiigggghhhhttttt

Yes! Something for me to work on for HL2!! Now .... All I need now is an Internet connection .....

Isn't softimage meant to be extremely hard to learn, like harder than maya. I think it requires an elite PC as wel.

It's definitely different to Max, but a little closer to Maya in some respects, and will seem confusing at first as will any new 3D app. Just follow through as many varied and basic tutorials as you can find and it'll begin to click fairly quickly, once it does there'll be no turning back ;) ...smart move from Softimage.

You don't need a highend PC to run XSI, not like Softimage3D which requires a hefty machine.

so there are XSI users on sumea :)

cnet secure downlaod is very fast, and not busy, i'm gettin 766 kb/s on cable of course.

I hope that this is an indication that Half Life 2 will be out "real soon now"! Gamespy has an article on one of the sessions at the Game Developers Conference 2004 about editing characters in Half Life 2 (mouth movements etc). [url="http://archive.gamespy.com/gdc2004/hl2chars/"]Looks very interesting[/url]!

Under the display tab / display properties there is a check box that is ticked by default ?edges only? remove the tick and your done.

Pantmonger

sweeet, thanx pants

dont know about your second question but Xvid is a good codec for high quaility and minimal file size, its about the middle of codecs though so you can get ones which will churn out a lower file size but Xvid will give you better quality then those, so as i said, it sits in the middle

if file size is really a problem, id personally just go with DivX (divx comes out lower then Xvid dosent it?)

Bink free and nice.

Pantmonger

just to clarify pants' comment

http://www.radgametools.com/

Bink really does kick ass.

DivX - Originally a rip of the stollen Microsoft MPEG-4 codec (versions 1-3). Version for was re-written from scratch and sucked hard. Version 5.00 wasn't that great. Version 5.01 and up are better. Nice quality. Very fast to encode. Really easy to encode. Really good file sizes.

XviD - A project that ex DivX guys went to work on as DivX is starting to become a pay project. XviD has much better quality than DivX. Slightly slower than DivX to encode. A bit of a prick to encode as the options are fairly in-depth and not to 'artist' friendly :) Still has problems with certain parts of the movie having area pixelisation. Due to the increase in quality, the file sizes are much larger, but not too much larger (than DivX). It is still in it's version 1 betas, so it isn't really completed yet. Notice how XviD is the reverse spelling of DivX.

MPEG-1 - The original form of Mpeg. Plays on any computer. Can give nice quality movies with higher bit rates. Easy to use. Pretty quick to encode. File sizes are the main problem with Mpegs. They are fairly large. Mpeg-1's (and 2's) have a problem where the quality of the encoder depends on the quality of the final product. Most free Mpeg encoders aren't that great. VCDs are just Mpeg-1's with it's bitrate locked. At VCD quality. it is 10mb a minute.

MPEG-2 - The better version of Mpeg-1. This is the format that is used for SVCDs (locked again) and DVD (lots of options available). Awesome quality at higher bit rates. A lot of encoding options and freedom. Very large file sizes (almost worth the quality though). Very few free Mpeg-2 encoders available (and all of them aren't that great). Needs to have an Mpeg-2 decoding program on your computer. This means a software based DVD player (PowerDVD, WinDVD, Xing). I sitll really love Mpeg-2, but if you want to distribute the movie via the net, the file size will become a big issue.

All Mpeg-4 codecs (DivX, XviD, etc) all have their own encoders, so you can use any app to encode them. Mpeg-1 and 2 are dependant on app you use to encode. The best is TMPEGenc Plus 2.5 (http://www.pegasys-inc.com/en/index.html). It is cheap, easy to use and kicks arse. There is a free version available, but you can only use it for 14 days.

Also, all of those encoders need a seperate audio encoder. VBR MP3s are very nice to use (and small), but 5.1 ACC becoming very popular.

Bink was a really good codec a few years back, but it is starting to show it's age. Fantastic as it's codecs are included in the file (it will play on any computer). Can't skip through files and the viewer can't change if the movie is full screen or windowed. It is still a good codec though as it is free :)

If you are really serious and interested, then I recomend going here.
http://www.doom9.org/

Just a few questions:
1. How long will your showreel go for?
2. How are you going to transport it? E.g DVD, SVCD, etc.

Reason for this will depend on what codec is more suitable with what you are hoping to achieve. For long film (e.g 30 mins), I'd suggest Mpeg-2 as you will have high quality video and you'll be able to play it on most stand-alone DVD players. For approx. 5 mins, I'd suggest either Xvid or DivX, I'd prefer DivX, but everyone has their opinion on quality. DivX definitely good for video that isn't fast moving.

Hope that helps. [8D]

Hazard, I gather from your post that you already have some rendered out clips and are wondering whether to just slap these into Premiere or whether you should render them all out again as .tga sequences or something? Provided the already rendered clips are of a reasonable size and quality then it would probably be of little benefit to do the latter, but yes, there will be some drop in quality.

On the codec front, when I recently compiled my first showreel I ended up rendering a 2min half PAL clip out of Premiere as a .wmv that ended up being about 4.5 MB in size, which I was very happy with, so I would recommend that, but be aware that the person recieving the file must have Media Player installed, but it's a safe bet they do. Give it a go, see how you like it, I'm yet to have any complaints of 'can't play your showreel'.

And for those that are interested (shameless plug time!)here's a link to it, you can check the quality yourself.

http://www.Antissa.com/Rhys/RW_showreel2004.wmv

Hey WoldMan ive got a couple points to raise regarding your showreel:

how come none of your models are textured, ie i mean painted with uvw's not just slapped on a max generated bump & or diffuse colour with spec highlights?

your title fade in / outs are really nice - but dont seem to work all that good with simple 360 rotations of models.

The very last walk cycle in your reel is REALLY good and stands out so much more than anything else in the reel - but it only goes on for like just over 1 second, i reckon you should have kept that one going for a bit longer.

Thanks everyone for your oppinions on this BTW - ive got something thats hit my level of standards, im probably going to bink it too ;) but my showreel currently sits at 98 meg ( cd version ) and 6.4 meg ( net version ) ... ill be posting links as soon as i unveil my secret.....

Hazard, I know what you mean about the models, texturing is something that doesn't come naturally to me and because of the projects they were intended for(short animations, not games, I was trained in an animation course so Unwrapping was only touched on lightly) I just went with what looked the best for the time allowed. I am, however, working on my texturing skills all the time, and they are improving (the head model is fully unwrapped and textured). Also I'll be removing the grey man model soon and probably replace him with 'sheepman' or something else I'm working on.

What do you suggest would work well with 360 rotations? I'm not sure in what way you mean that they don't work well.

As for that final walk cycle, there's a reason it's at the end because that's the 'rigging' category, I didn't actually do the walk cycle myself. I think I'm going to have to alter my reel because other people have had similar comments to yours without realising that I'm just illustrating my rigging skills :/

Thanks a lot for taking the time to download it and give me some genuinely constructive crits Hazard, much appreciated. Let us know when we can get a squiz at yours and I'll return the favour.

Hey W : ( note the name abreviationg getting smaller and smaller ;) )

This is my oppinion only, but firstly what is your demo reel trying to portray you as ??
I get an allrounder kind of feeling from yours, kinds says " i can model, rig, and make short animations " if your going for that - then by all means fill in the gaps and get your best of everything in there - but if you want to be an animator - then show some of that in your reel, less selction - more quality / and by that i mean 1 or 2 pieces - that focus on facial animation really closely or something like that. Same goes for any other area your trying to break into.

For me my demo is going to be soley based on modelling / texturing from a concept. - as thats what i enjoy most doing. and even though id like to animate and concept as well - they definetly arent my strengths - they may appear in my reel somwhere but i definately wont portray them as a feature.

also my oppinion, a demo reel should contain no work but your own ( soundtracks etc aside ). I think if you got cut down to be in the last 3 - 5 potential employers and they asked you the question that i just did regards that last walk cycle - and you replied " oh i actually didnt do that someone else did, but i rigged it " i think youd just have blown your chances...( of course depending on the nature of work you applied for ) if that means youll have a rather bare show reel, then it looks like youve got some work ahead of you ;)

and lastly regards the segment headings thing - i just meant when i saw your headings - instantly i thought, " nice...clear consise nothing too fancy just straight to the point " followed closely by " ohhh..... 360 rotations,... TOO straight to the point [;)] " all im saying is show some different shots of your models or flash the wireframe over the top of the rotation for a few frames, and for most of them id slow down the rotation a fraction. just something that varies from the norm of 360 rotations. I hope that helps some man, once again, this is my oppinion only, and yeah - youl get a chance to crit my showreel soon enough :D

I thought it was pretty cool, but are all show reels that short. It only went for like 2 mins. No offense. I'm just curious. The music was pretty painful though. I'm sure they won't be paying attention to that anyway.

all show reels -better- be that short. I'm not going to sit and watch a pile of reels that go for any more than that.

edit: Just one more note - for the love of all that is holy, make sure if you're doing a cd reel that it can be played from the cd.

Seems like the majority feel that the ideal reel to sit and watch is a cd which contains 2 files in the root directory - name_reel.avi and name_cv.doc. Bung in the cd, look at the reel (and NO DAMN COPYING because they're too big to stream from cd), and check out the resume'.

yup as far as i know - 2 minutes is pretty damn long for a showreel.

Remembering that its a showcase of your BEST work - whats your take on how many pieces should be in a video showreel ji ? for mine im having 4 or 5 models - showing Mesh/wire shots, textured shots. but with the cd version of my reel im including an html portoflio that has still shots of the models, uvw flats, concept images, and wires for all the models - all up im thinking around the 60 - 80 seconds mark for the video - and if anyone wants to see more - they can flip through the html portfolio.

I'd just like to point out if you use a codec like divx or whatever.. chances are that whoever views your demo will have to install the codec.. this could be really annoying and might even blow your chances of getting it viewed in the first place... use mpg for good universal support. Also I really recommend using Soronsen 3 codec within Quicktime.
Yes quicktime! I feel that it beats divx handsdown as far as quality is concerned.... plus quicktime lets your portfolio get viewed on both PC's and Mac's.. there's not many machines out there that dosent have quicktime player installed

Thanks again Hazard, following your suggestions I'm going to ditch the grey male model, probably the car (diverts too much from what I'm trying to sell myself as), the whole 'rigging' section (neither of the anims are mine) and some of the other average pieces. However, I assure you that everything else on the reel is mine :) This should bring the time down to around 1min 30.

no worries wiz... i wouldnt mind seeing it once your done, im almost finished mine - just a few more edits etc and its all done :) ill post a link when it is.

dont give up.

I knew youd say that...N e ideas on what brushes, tools etc i should start to use 1st? know n e tutorials?

Well, what program are you painting with? I know that a lot of people will say that what app you use doesn't make a lot of difference, it is the user... but there is another side to it as well. The user may find a different app to be more accessable or easier to use. A lot of people love using PS for painting, but I could never get to grips with it. I love Painter for painting. If your Wacom came with Painter Classic, then load it up and give it a go. You may like it you may not :)

I don't know how many tutes you will find on using a Wacom... "Now hold the Wacom pen exactly like a real pen" :p

Just fiddle around and get used to the feel of it. Don't try painting the most amasing masterpiece this world has had the privelige to witness. Just fiddle around whacking colours on a canvas. Go from their. Get used to how the pressure stylus works (and the others if you have an Intuos).

If it is any consilation, I still can't draw for shit using one :)

lol, yeh ive been using painter classic...I probably suk b'cos i suk with paint in the REAL world. The best pic ive done is this fire:

[img]http://home.graffiti.net/hobonation:graffiti.net/FIRE_.JPG[/img]

But i hate drawing realistic things. baaah i guess ill just keep stuffing around, maybe ill fluke it..[:D]

hey hobo i got a tablet a while back and boy did i suck with it aswell. I couldnt sketch or anything the stuff that i profuced looked worse then the back wall of a kindergarten class room. Ive gone to sketching and scanning then colouring by mouse. Tablets probably arent for everyone but keep at it untill you know whether or not its you.

well ive only been "TABLET'ing" for about 2 weeks now - my Fiance's tablet broke ( Genius 1212HR III ) a nice big tablet - and when it did break - now i refuse to go back to painting with a mouse - although i have done in the past.

Now ive got a wacom graphire 3 and it rocks - tis a wee bit hard to get used to - but if your using it solid for a couple of days - youll really get the hang of it... i rarely use my mouse anymore. even use my tablet in max....

yeh, thanks. I know i can draw well with a mouse, so maybe they arent for me. I thought it would be the same as drawing in a sketch book or on papaer but i was unpleasantly suprised. O well, its still a valuable piece of equiptment, atleast now i fit in on sumea!

heh heh ditto to that hobo, but ive seen you produce some neat stuff and that was obviously done without a tablet

[:D]

ok man, when I first got my tablet I really sucked for AGES, I mean months, it was quite embarrasing, but like HazarD, my tablet broke just recently and I couldn't live without it! I ran out and got a new one straight away! of course, I had $17 for the next week, bread and carrots people!
Um, yeah so just keep using it, and trust me, eventually you it wont even be a concious thing using your tablet!

Heh, I've had mine for a few years and I cant still cant sketch very well with it.
If you find it to smooth to draw on put a piece of paper over it (or under) and that it will give it a bit more grip feel to it. For painting though, I find its the best.
Keep at it though, eventually you will get used to it and laugh at the day that you preferred using a mouse :)

hmmm, gotta get me a tablet...and a computer to attached it to! Does anyone actually do sketching/drawing with their tablet here, or is it used as a painting tool primarly?

The only time I have used a tablet was for photo collage work in Photoshop. I found the job took the same time but I had MUCH more accuracy masking complex shapes, and no 'dead wrist' at the end of the day.

I sometimes sketch with it, but I think much better on paper, I use it to finish my stuff, becuase undo comes in supa-handy, but on a sketch you dont worry about mistakes... Also I dont think a tablet give you the freedom of movement you get in real life, well a little tablet, I have no exp with those huge tablets, does anyone? If so enlighten us! (at the risk of jealous backlash) [:D]

mines the good ol' 4x5 Wacom graphire 3

when you draw really quick lines,.. do you get rough edges ? almost like a line drawn with 5 or 6 points linked by straight lines ? instead of a smooth surved line ??

I get this with my new Grapire 3 ????? of course only when i draw lines super fast,.. but sometimes you gotta,... for like hair,.. or something.. i hope i didnt buy a dud ;)

yeah, mines a 4x5 graphire 3, I don't get so much rough edges as that it almost jags or catches doing fine detail, I think thats just something you got to work around with a small tablet. With that said, I had a really cheap Acecad green thing that was the same size but had more levels, it could handle small stuff but on a regular basis, it would just draw when the pen was in the recognized distant, not when you actually touched the tablet! That was really anoying! So I'll take the slight jagging action over just drawing willy-nilly over what you are doing! Ples the Graphire 3 looks sweet! haha

lol, yeh...i cant use mine,but it looks cool on my desk!

And isn't that what really counts people? [:D] But like I said before well, basically what everyone said, pratice. Perhaps after the Modelling comp is finished we could look into some skill building thing in Quick Activities...

yeah mines a 6 x 8 - it goes good,.. but the old genius tab was a 12 x 12, and so far save the pressure sensativity - ive found it to be better in every way... + the genius tablet was only 150 bux 2 years ago....

damn the wacom is so Sexah tho!! the genius was a bloody eyesore - great big hunk of non-aerodynamic plastic, i mean,.. its gotta fly right when you throw it across the room in frustration,.. theres nothing worse than being pissed, throwing your tablet, and having it put your throwing arm to shame by hopelessly landing 2 feet from your arm due to lack of aerodynamic capabilities.... ... ahhh... yeah.

HAHA, oh man, there is nothing as frustating as a finicky tablet!! I found with my old one doing the rocking-back-and-forth-growling-while-shaking-the-computer-desk alot!!

GOD DAMN IT
Well, I've just drawn my first graphics tablet picture. Ive coloured it well and Im very happy with it. I quickly erase some of the original lines then hit save, and, waddyaknow.. "This program has experienced an error" send error report? then: "WE APPOLOGISE FOR THE INCONVINIENCE"
Poof* and its gone.

[:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!]

I think ill join a cult[xx(]

I had been working on it for hours, and didnt want to save it as it mixes the layers together...But when i did it couldnt handle me having an artwork i actually liked.

My throat now hurts from ten minutes of screaming.

heres the original sketch and all i managed to save...Its the top of his head zoomed up and half coloured.

[img]http://home.graffiti.net/hobonation:graffiti.net/raven.JPG[/img][img]ht…]

LMFAO that dude looks so funny!!!!!!!!! honestly you should make him a cartoon character - i can just seem him as the funiest bird type dude - doing really stupid things,.. like the white ninja comics ;)

Pity about the photoshop drama - if youve got a cracked version,.. then.. yeah.... .. dont let it put you off tho - you could start a cult following with that character there!!

On the bright side the bird has a perfect expression for that exact scenario![:p] Sorry, I know how shiet losing a heap of work can be. Seriously tho he has some attitude goin on and cartoon characters really need... well.. character! Sweet

hehe, yeh..he's the dark lord of Ravens. I've started drawing heaps of characters, like da ravens arch nemasis, the polar bear. N e ways I'm over it now...I'll start drawing him again.

O and I used Painter Classic, I really should install paintshop, I do have it somewhere.(a LEGAL version ill just add)

bummer about the error Jake...

that bird is seriously sick looking tho!

can't wait to see the polar bear guy![:D]

Hey hobo do u know flash. I would love to see your characters in a flash animation.

Yep I do flash animation. My Flash Characters are alot different to my freehand drawn characters though...

Weel, heres a quick pic i drew of the raven...
[img]http://home.graffiti.net/hobonation:graffiti.net/darklord.JPG[/img]

As u might well notice, my lines look very pixelated/ square......does any 1 know how to make them smoother/ round?[?]

if you are using to PS to inlarge the pic, make sure that you have the "Bicubic Sampling" option enables in the "Resize Image" Window. It is set to none at the moment (from the pixel town I bet ;) ).

If you are just using the "Free Transform" tool, then make sure that you have "Bicubic Sampling" enabled in your prefs. Sorry, I can't remember what pref tab it is under.

He looks really cool, but you may want to work at a slightly larger res, at it looks a little blurry :)

that she looks like a man a bit and her hands kinda... not holding the gun that good :P

and i think ur character has slit his wrists or something

heres one for you, its a bit stuffed and its from vice city (incase you cant tell). Its a really subtle glitch so ill let you figure out if you can see whats wrong :P

[img]http://www.vooks.net/moonunit/flyinghighglitch2.jpg[/img]

and heres something thats not actually glitchy, just creepy. i think someone sorta textured him a bit weird (its a JK2 shot)
http://www.vooks.net/moonunit/JK2evil%20trooper.jpg

(its kinda large so ill leave it as a clicky

She's in a miniskirt? :)

yeah it is very subtle i still can't find it :)

For your picture souri, the girl in fronts shoulder are way to big, and the biceps are very blocky.

Sorry to spoil the fun but it's the white pixel on the wall! It's HIDEOUS! Just to the upper left of the girls head in the foreground...

hehehe but just to clarify, had to ask souri myself last night, but he wasn't meaning that there's one thing horribly wrong, just that it's very dodge all around.

oh that and your M-16 looks like its got two tim tams strapped to it just behind the handle :P (im guessing thats a M-16)

Don't M-16 come standard with timtams? AAArrg, I was going to comment on the screen shot but allI can do is stare at the white dot!

whats right with this picture???

to Inglis: the white dot! what's wrong with the white dot?!

i mean whats not wrong with this picture. its hideous.
the white dot is just the start of it.

oh i also just noticed, your bg chick is holding the shotgun like it was a AK or something, like there was a clip chamber to grip on :P her non trigger hand isnt even grasping anything :P

(well it looks like a shotgun, maybe theyve added to it :P )

Well if i was going to fight people with a gun i would want tim tams to, wut if you got a bit peckish, especially a carbon fibre or metal one. you wouldn't need to eat for days.

Textures look poor, even most of you guys and gals on this forum could do better, hair on her arms maby? I also think they tryed to texture it with a light source happening. Also, is he standing in the water for GTA 3 Vice City?

Ha! Moon Unit looks like the front tyer on the sports car is missing!

Looks like a problem with world sectors in Renderware (GTA3) the water must be in a different sector and as a consequence has occuluded everything else (static world) except the animated hierachys (vehicles) good old renderware!

actually for the Vice city shot ill tell you the story. I got my wanted up (as you can see) and i have a trainer for some fun (like spawning sports cars for high speed chases, this is PC ver) so i used the "jetpack" (it moves you around on the x,y,z axis) and i was above the stadium when a cop car drove past... in mid air. Ive got no idea why but there was a invisible flooring like 200 metres above the stadium roof the surface area of the stadium roof, if you went beyond that you hit an invisble wall. Absolutely bizzare :P

Pressure! argh! Stop looking at me!

And on a more serious and less insane note...
I use Max 4.x at home and 5.x at work; max 4 has a free downloadable plugin called unrapper which is a direct port of max 5.x's UV tools with some added functionality and logic. I really prefer to use this over any other unwrapping method and tool for speed and ease of use. My workflow generally goes like this when unwrapping:

unrapper modifier/max5 unwrap modifier > edit uv's > select by faces an area (eg arm, or head) > mapping/flatten mapping > figure out where my seams will be > seperate and stitch pieces togethor, welding neighbouring verts togethor while still minimising distortion > repeat

Sounds like a lot, but really is a very stream lined process - unwrapping a segment like a leg, or face or arm in under 5 mins with well placed seam lines and minimised distortion. After you're all done, chucking on a checker texture in the viewport and tweaking and then sorting the sheet ready for export, a normal 1500 poly character is unwrapped in around half an hour to an hour.

I get an error message for that plugin and i'm using 4.2. I think i'd just like to use the basic tools that already come with max although I do have Texporter, can anyone tell me of tutorials or something.

okay, well anything below max 5.x is extremely cumbersome and beyond what I'm prepared to type out here sorry [:)]

sooooooo... tutorials! your best bet would be the polycount tutorials thread - http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~polycount/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000644.html?00063
Find all the relevant stuff and go at it. There's probably a fair figure of over a hundred different techniques and methods people unwrap, so I'd suggest trying out as many as you can to find the thing that's right for you.

Hey Styles have you got a link to that unwrapper plugin for MAX4?

not on hand - I tried googling, and got this link:
http://old.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?/planetquake/polycount/Tools/discre…

but you need to login with gamespy login and I haven't checked if it's live. Google for "unrapper" (no 'w')

note: you'll need max 4.2 (with the update)

if i modeled it in edit poly can i map and unwrap as a edit poly or do i have to convert it to a mesh.

Try lithunwrap, and or Ultimate Unwrap, I use them, good programs.

bullet: edit poly and edit mesh are only a front end to the mesh - so all they do is give you different ways to view the data and edit it with different tools. So you can swap and switch between edit mesh and edit poly as you so choose. If you collapse down and it turns to edit mesh, and you want poly, simply right click on the stack and hit collapse to edit poly.

Does anyone know what the material ID method is. I've heard of it but don't know what it is. The UVW mapping is very hard. I always end up getting a mess

Hey Bullet, I think before you continue on with your persistent questioning that you should go through the Max tutorials, they're an excellent starting point for all aspects of Max and cover most of what you've been asking about. Just go up to the help menu and click on tutorials, or even better, if you've got GMax go through those tutorials, they're aimed specifically at the gaming workflow.

I'm not having a go at you for asking questions, I just think you'd be better off doing the tutorials first, then come to Sumea for any other questions.

Well i did look at them, and didn't find them very helpful, that's Y i asked.

neither did i, especially for actually unwrapping and producing a decent texture sheet to paint on - i dont think it even touches on this subject at all, and im using max 6.0 with the additional tutorials...

[:(]

JI: do you guys (industry) use alot of the automatic flatten mapping in max ??

ive never really delved into it... but that 1/2 hour to an hour to unwrap a 1500 poly character sounds bloody brill to me [:)]

well, we get the job done to the best quality in the time we have - I can only talk for myself, but personally I use the flatten as a base to start from - it breaks everything apart into small chunks and lays everything out in no logical order or sorting but without distortion, and ready for you to stitch back togethor manually and judge seams vs. distortion balance quickly and intuitively.

Just remember - just because it automates that doesn't mean it's an automatic process. There is no easy fix, it's just a way to get a cleaner base to start from.

Is it ok to use two planar maps, one for the front and one for the back, then unwrap it. I mean like part by part, you know planar map for the front of the arm then another for the back of the arm, a planar map for the front of the torso then another for the back of the torso....... so on
Or will this cause distortion. I have read the max help file but i didn't find the tutorials useful at all.

Also how come when i unwrap it then collapse the stack, what i unwrapped before disappears. Everything i unwrapped before can't be seen. Even if i apply another UWVunwrap. It's hard to know where to place things for the texporter if i can't see everything in the edit window.

once youve done your first unwrap - lets say its an arm - and youve arranged all the UV's in the edit uv window, once your happy with it i usually select all the verts and move them out of the bitmap square ( marked in the uv edit window ) of to the side somewhere.

Then i collapse the stack - apply a UnwrapUVW modifier and usually see a massive mess + my nicely flattened out bit off to the side where i left it.

i found this to be the biggest hurdle for me learning to model - something im still trying to come to grips with - if you want a more in depth hand bullet21, ill write you a step by step - as to what i do when im unwrapping a character... let me know.

oh please do, i can't find any good tutes out there. I'll be forever grateful. Just one thing though i am using 4.2. [:)]

cos you see it's not just the unwrapping i'm havin trouble with it's the whole mapping concept.

Bullet, when I mentioned the tutorials I was specifically responding to your query about material ID's and multi/sub materials. There is definitely a tutorial for that. As for unwrapping there should be one also, they use a biplane for the example.

WizenedOldMan - that tutorial on unwrapping that bi-plane really sux - it gives you a insite in unwrapping something i agree with that - but for a beginner trying to use those methods on a character - like i was a wee while back, i found them almost obsolete.

One thing i found with discreet - is thats one thing they dont have, i mean they shouw you how to build & rig a character - why not continue that on and show you how to unwrap him as well - i think that would benefit people a shitload more than showong someone how to build a character - rig a spider then unwrap a plane, then show you how to animate a walk cycle in biped for a horse... ill have my rant and rave, cos i know just how frustrated i was when i was first trying to find shit to help me out - turns out i had to badger a guy i knew to show me how he unwrapped characters before i cud even begin to understand how the whole unwrap stuff worked....

Bullet21 - I recall you saying that you worked with max 4.2 - unfortunately i dont have max4.2, and i dont know how different it is from max 6.0 ive only ever played with the dos max up to version 3.0 then from version 5 and now im using max 6.0. i do know its got a few advancements in the unwrap / edit uvw department as well... so what i could do is next character i do - ill write it down and post it to you - not sure about how much it will actually help you tho [:?]

thanx mate, a true help

and yeah i agree with that discreet thing, i guess it would be helpful if they told you how to model, texture, rig and animate the same character that way you would also have some inspiration to do your next big project by yourself. But everything is done differantly. That's what confused me as well. You can't understand about unwrapping a charcter when they are showing you how to unwrap a plane. I think they are very diferant things.

if in max, it refers to your 'stack' of modifyers, you might havs started off with a 'mesh', and added a 'uv map' and then a 'uv edit' (haven't looked at max in a while).

you can right click (i think) and get a collapse option, or it is one of the buttons on that panne of the tools. by collapsing they may want you to just convert it back into an editable mesh...

save before play with this, of course...

DSC

is it collapse to or collapse all.

collapse all will collapse the entire stack bringing it back to editable mesh, collapse will just collapse the modifier you have selected.

Sooner or later you have to collapse the stack, but when you chose to is a matter of personal taste, and file size. I for example collapse my stack after I map each bit, then move on to the next bit. Some people I know make a huge stack and only collapse it when they have finished the uvws for the entire model.

Pantmonger

I modled it as edit poly but do i have to convert it to edit mesh.

Does anyone know good tutorials.

I love doing caricatures, its one on my short list of skills.

A good way of dealing with this is planning ahead. You know that you want to have an animation. You know that she will have facial expressions.

So...

Duplicate the whole body and work on facial expressions.

You can work on character animation on a simple mesh. You can even do this in a completely different scene file to the finished file. As long as the skeleton has the same naming system, you can just save the skeleton animation and load it up into the finished version. It wont effect your working speed in any way :)

Something that you may want to have a think about is not using true SubD for blendshapes. It runs very slowly. I found that if you extract the proxy mesh as a standard polygon mesh, it works much quicker. You work with low poly objects and then at the last moment you just throw a smooth on top. Although it requires a bit more work and a bit more practice, the speed increase is definitely worth it.

I have read of another way of dealing with selective blendshapes. You can have a whole body, and then just duplicate the head. You just work on blendshapes and then use Sets as the blendshape targets. Some friends and I tried it in our class, but we only got it to work once. I may have a better look into it soon, as if it works properly, it would be sweet :D

Thanks, Aven! I planned to have a low-res version for the body animation and then turn on the hi-res for the facial stuff. I'll give it a try using polygons, although I haven't noticed a huge speed difference with the sub-d. Take care!

-Trav

Which ever one you can use best.

I agree, it also depends on what your using it for.

It isnt the software so much as the skill of the user

So what is used most in the australian industry, and why?

For 3D apps, based off the end of last years stat rounds in the "entertainment industry" (broadcast, movie, games), 3dsmax 4 and 5 are the two highest used applications, a little out in front of Maya, which is then followed by lightwave which is quite a far way off.

For just games, the stats weren't that comprehensive, but max was streaks ahead of everything else, being more than triple the amount used of the nearest package which was maya. Looking forward to seeing what the new stats are this year if they get done again for 2004

I think it has always been this way. Max is used an exceptional amount in games because it's polygon modelling toolset is almost unbeatable. It is also quite easy to use. In the film industry I think Maya is the dominating software because it's NURB modeller is unbeatable. Some aussie companies use lightwave, i think tantalus does. But there are a few companies switching to maya now as well.

maya is dominating in films because of its ability to be modified to meet studios pipelines.
its a complete package.

Although Maya does have one of the best implementations of NURBS, not that many people use it anymore. Very few people still use true SubD now. Most people prefer polygon modelling whether it is for low poly or high poly work. So Maya isn't becoming more popular for that. As Inglis said, Maya was based around Film Studio's workflows. This is one reason why many game studios don't use it. A game studio will have a few dozen artists (at most) working for them. A film company has a few hundred. They need different workflow solutions based on that.

A lot of larger games companies are hesitent to change as well, as they have a large amount of money invested in their software and training. If companies just decided to switch like that, they would have to buy all new software and liscences, and either get in new staff or train all their older staff. That takes a lot of time and money, that a lot of companies can't afford.

I will be interested to see figures for this years sales as well. Especially considering that Maya Complete costs less than 3DS Max. I didn't actually realise that Max was still that expensive though.
http://estore.discreet.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry?CID=0&SID=37482&SP=10007… I'm guessing that the prices are US, seeing as it is the US store.
http://store.aliaswavefront.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry16?SP=10024&PN=29&xi…

this is a question I was trying to ask a lot myself before I got a job, and all to no avail except some very general "it depends"; which honestly, it really does. It's a very hard question to answer with so many things affecting it. In an effort to get this answered satisfactorily, can I ask you to re-pose your question with a specific example. Eg, "how long is the expected turn around on a x poly, y texture size, z platform character". From that we can give you a little bit better answer, but unfortunately there's still a myriad of different affecting things which change peoples time constraint expectations.

Hope that all makes sense, and I hope you can get this answered satisfactorily

Okay Thanks JI - youve prompted me to change the question a bit [:)]

Hop on over to the exhibition page, check out the model i done there, what would the turn around time for him be ? 3000 tri, 1024x1024 texture sheet ?

So far i think i would have spent about 25 honest hours on him - and i havent even started painting yet - im just a bit paranoid cos i keep hearing / seeing times that seem inhumanly possibly to me.

then again, my infinite newbie wisdom tells me they probably knock a few hours off here and there to cherry it up a bit. [;)]

ok, well straight off the bat, in a perfect world disregarding all other factors, a margin for those specs would be somewhere around 1 to 2 days modelling, half a day to a full day unwrapping, and 1 to 2 days texturing.

*edit: just a note, standard day = 8 hours... give or take lunch/breaks/play tests/etc

but, like I say, that's in a perfect world. Is it a key character? Spend a day more on polishing. Is it to go into the next build to show to the publisher coming up very shortly? knock off a full day or two. In the end you're getting payed to do what you're told to. If that means a finished character in 2 days turn around, you're going to have it done by then. It may mean a few cheap hacks, and some liberties taken, but you're being paid to be creative on demand, and supply when needed. Most of the time it's iterative production, so you're going to do extra passes to redo stuff and improve upon it.

Depends on the complexity and design of the concept, is it a realistic 12 limbed insect queen with photoreal textures and a normal map or is it a cel shaded ball with eyes?

For arguments sake lets say its some sort of bipedal FPS type model with semi realistic textures.
I'd spend between 2-4 days on that breakdown you gave:

1-1.5 day modelling
1/2-1 day uvmapping/rigging (depending on complexity of the rig)
1-2 days on texture (again depending on complexity)

then of course all the fixes/polishes that happen along the project cycle would obviously increase that timeframe just like JI said.

Generally you should aim for a decent speed that doesn't come at a price of quality and your leads should know this and be setting realistic timeframes, if not then to some degree its on there heads if its a bad model.

I beleive its better to take the time out first and get the model as spot on as possible, that way it lessens the amount of time it gets retouched by the artists.

I don't know what your level of ability is but in my opinion its better to get the quality of your work up to scratch before worring about speed, that will come with experience.

I find it strangely reassuring our numbers are near exactly the same Malus, good stuff [:)]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet thanks Dean / Joel, makes me feel a whole lot better [:D]

JI: Phew, I'm not to slow then lol, thank the great pixel monkey in the sky.[:P]
Hazard: No prob's.

Not sure if this would work but have you tried cryteks polybump viewer?

yah, third party apps like that are really the only way to preview without chucking in an engine at the moment, and that's still just a screen grab - ideally, I'd like a way to render the character(s) animations from within max.

there was a little talk around the place to getting mental ray in max 6 to do it. Maybe something you can look into.

yay, after getting dug into it, I've discovered a work around. The demo of the Kaldera plugin from mankua, is incredibly crippled - but since their main feature is generating the normals, I had a gut feeling they may not be too concerned about the normal shader aspect of it (being such a minor element of the product). And, lo and behold, ignoring the generation features, it's possible to use the demo for presentation renders. I've been successfully rendering animated lit normal mapped models using the demo under max5.

Good news for max users [:)]

Customize your colours to your hearts content! Customize>User Interface> Colors tab -- should be under the geometry or edit elements.

edit: and if you're meaning change the colour of an unselected object, hit its colour properties (right hand side tabs under "Name and colour" there's a little box with the colour selection), change that to black, then apply a material to the object and change its surface colour in there to what you want.