Industry and Education

Big fan of xbox live, although it's a year late :)
If i manage to get broadband in the future i'd definitely be signing up.
CYer, Blitz

id love to get this...but first i need an xbox and broadband[:p]

I've been waiting for this for a long time. I'll definitly get it, hopefully before the end of the year.

Optus have already started pimping it: http://optusnet.com.au/games (Playstation 2 Network as well)

Does anyone know if you get unlimited bandwidth for playing games after subscribing to Xbox Live?
I just had a thought - imagine Xbox Live, with Mame + kaillera client.. not likely to happen, but that would be awesome. [:)]

hey, im from the states. i got live. just thought id let ya'll know, its not as huge as they say it is. well, for me it wasn't. first two weeks thats all i did was play it. well, mebe first 3 months. but then i just got kinda bored. not enough games and content like they promised, and after a while, you get tired of peoples attitudes. its really rare to find good games to play in.

couple of suggestions for those that do get it. find gamers who are cool, add them to your friends, and try to play with them, mebe forming clans and such, then play other clans. public gameing is just a waste of time on live, as people want to be lame asses and shout in the mic or be obscene or just dumb.

aside from that, im waiting for citizen/idenity zero to come out.

oh yea, one last thing. p2p networking for the gaming is horrid. bandwidth issues for most people on some of the games. only time it works out ok is on dedicated microsoft servers, or someone with optical or someone with a t3 line.

come to think of it, it just seems to be reliance on the games. i can play ghost recon with 10 people and no lag just fine. [ gah, 10 people sounds so small compared to pc online gameing ] but i can't play rtcw on my xbox for nothin'. just terrible lag.

Looking at going right into second year or doing both years?

I am in the first year now and I know theres some previous students around here and at least one second year programmer.

The best advice I can give you: do not use the fridge :)

Feel free to bug me with what ever questions you have.

looking at doing both years i think...just to be sure i get the hang of things from scratch

the fridge????

Remember the fridge in ghostbusters? Yeah, something like that...

The place is quite good, you get reasonably decent hardware, and all the tools you need.

I can't say much about the first year as i haven't done it, but from secondhand info the first year is where you learn most of the basic skills for games programming. The first year involves "standard" education, with assignments, homework (?) etc.
The second year doesn't involve any direct learning/class structure. Instea dthe second year is just one big game development project. Tutors are there to help you out, but they don't actually conduct classes, it's just up to you to figure out what needs to be done and do it. The most important things you learn in second year are probably not to do with programming (although it may depend on your skill level when entering the year), but more to do with team-work, dealing with people and generally how to deal with a medium scale project.
Anything more specific?
CYer, Blitz

only one more question...what is the average age of people going to AIE?

average... well, iirc their youngest has been 13, and oldest late 50's.

Just as long as your young enough at heart, and mature enough to distinguish between playing games and making them.

To be a bit more precise, the average age in both the second year classes this year is early 20's.
First year class is mainly around that age group but there are a handful of older people afaik.
But it's the same as pretty much any school, generally people in their younger years.
CYer, Blitz

ok...thats all..much appreciated

Just to give you an idea of what we did first year.

C then a character generation assignment in C
C++
Worked in small groups to write a chat client/server with a network lib
Worked in small groups to write a basic network game (my group did blackjack)
Basic DirectX stuff
Moved on to Auran Jet tutorials.
Random terrain generation assignment using Jet
Terrain assignment with character, collision, etc using Jet

For the second half of the semester we are working in teams of about 4 people writing a small game. My group is doing a 3d style lemmings game.

holy crap that sounds kool...

hopefully by the time I come there I will have been programming in C++ for about a year. do u think I will I be able to pick up all that stuff pretty easy then?

lol :) I had a whole two weeks experience with C++ when I got there. You should be fine.
I did a year and a half of programming at TAFE and that was mainly Java.

that sounds exactly like what I am doing atm...Cert 4 in IT (Programming)...

well thanks for all this...i'm looking forward to going

"The best advice I can give you: do not use the fridge :)"
Oh god, dont forget the SARS microwave just next to the fridge, stay away from that :P

Mmmm... microwave goodness! :)

the reason why i bought my lunch from home or went to the watson shops. at least i knew what food poisoning i would get from there. vera's cafe had some good food though. so to answer your question about the AIE, there are some good food venues around the place. as long as you don't mind stomach parasites :p

is there a subway near by?
that is what i survived on when doing my course (not at aie).
it was either that or food from a hospital cafe across the road.

Theres a subway near the bus stop on the ride in... so not much good if your after oozy hot meatball subs.

But the chip shop next door to the AIE actually serves beer!!!! I kid you not!

Seriously though, AIE is a great school and it got me where I am today... I just finished working on the last Unreal Tournament game for Epic and I now work for Discreet. Great school.

But yeah... stay away from the fridge if you want to live.

ooh a daz siting!

*edit* better post something substantial.

The shops up at watson (a 5 minute walk) are pretty damn good, food is nice, and not too expensive.. I can confirm they sell beer too.. Though you gotta be careful, some of the beers have been sitting there a while, and taste crap.

Best thing the AIE gives you is structure, you'll learn things quicker there than by doing it on your own. Home computers tend to have too many distractions.

Ever notice how much fun solitaire can be when you need to get work done.

solitare? porn is my weakness :D i just keep telling myself that it is for reference... at least i could do that at the AIE.

Heh, siting of Daz is rare now after his pokemon trainer upgraded him to travelling Daz.
I just finished the Korea and Taiwan max 6 launch... am in Shanghai right now sending out the message to all the homies.

To back up what the bobster said, the AIE is great because the students really get together and boost each other up the ladder. Very cool to see.

And what the hell are you talking about... its BEEER. BEEER NOT BAD. BEEER FREIND. (twacks bob with a club borrowed from a buffy episode)

Pron siting? ...at the AIE?

You could download the 'girl' series of renders from CGchannel and say they are just for refs I guess.

haha. if i want to look up crap, i'll do so in my own time. not someone elses. i will actually be joining up with this site this week though (hopefully) www.3d.sk. they have some great reference there. and no porn ;)

well AIE is sounding good from all the comments you's have given...

for those of you that have been there, what course/s did you do there?

first year. Beginners Modelling/Animation using 3D Studio Max.
second year. Advanced Modelling/Animation using Maya.

the first year was good as it tought all the fundamentals, but the second year is when you can really open up and have fun.

I did the course seven years ago when it was a single unit.

Hey! I never said beer is bad, but beer that has been left sitting for months.. Thats a different story.

*off topic*
Nice work with the Discreet job too, does that mean you now have darth vader music that follows you around? :D

Ok I'll be nice.. But still, congrats :)
*/off topic*

I did the Beginners modelling/animation using 3dsmax.
and the Dip2 in game development. The Dip2 in game dev is one you'll do in your second year I think Kane, you work with a bunch of artists to make a game.
http://www.fileplanet.com/files/120000/120496.shtml
Heres the game my class made, if you'd like a look.

frist year Beginners Modelling/Animation using 3D Studio Max. "with Aven and Bob"

2nd year, worked on game demo "hail"

and now i work of irrational game australia, for 6 months now.

One thing about the AIE "and most places you can study at" you only get out what you put in. There are about 8 or more times as many poeple which past the course at the AIE then get jobs in the game or movie industrys.

I saw the screens and video of Hail and it looks kool...

so what were u saying...not many people get jobs after graduating, or the opposite...

and whats it like at Irrational?

Not many poeple I would guess 1 in 8 (maybe wrost) get a job in game or movies industrys. But I would have to say I wouldn't be were I'm today without the AIE.

Irrational Rocks :)

I am not sure if you are talking all graduates or art graduates there Doord.

I have found that with AIE programmers not many people know about that side of the course. Heck even Irrational (thinking Jon) didnt know much about what the programmers do.

As far as I know Mortifera (spelling?) group was the first group of programmers through AIE, second group would be Hail. Most of the Mortifera people were hired up by MF (as I understood). I know of one or two Hail programmers getting (and keepings) their jobs.

Otherwise this years group is the first year to graduate programmers that went through both years.

well that sounds a bit more promising![:D]

Yeah it was a shame about the location but it went pretty well considering. A bigger screena and a darker room wouldn't have hurt.

Good to see you there, I think you were actually surrounded by Kromans over where you were sitting, :-) It ended up being a fun outing for Kromans that went. So if there's one next year, we'll be there.

Nominations for 15. should be interesting :P
Should Jurassic Park also be included in the PC titles? (since it was released on PC)
CYer, Blitz

i wasnt around last year so...
for 11,13,15- all members with those profiles are in the running?

I don't recall there being a best "sumean" anything last year. :)
CYer, Blitz

Thanks Blitz, I've added Jurassic Park to the PC list. There are a few other things I need to check out - I'm not sure if those Tantalus GBA titles have been released, and I don't think Warlords IV has been released either... anyway, if anyone knows, I do appreciate the help [:)]

Yeh, the Sumea member categories are new to the awards. I thought people would find it interesting.

Yeah, but how would you find out the best programmer, I doubt that there have been many, if any people that have programmed stuff for the community...

Playing devils advocate here - I agree with Daemin on one side....

But the other side of things....

The best artist may not be the one whos done the best work but would be the most helpful in ideas, useful crits, etc. So if that could be true for an artist maybe the programmer is someone whos helpful when people run into problems, etc...

I really think Souri's poll is more of a thank-you to people who have helped shape the community - I don't think he's trying to create a rift where people say "But I am better then you are".

is it open to all members with those profile types or do we have to nominate members?

But, I AM better than ALL of you.
CYer, Blitz

So you believe :-P

we might as well just give the awards to blitz [:p] hes got us all there.

I think anyone who interprets the awards as a "I'm better than you" competition is really missing the point of it all, and perhaps taking the awards a bit too seriously. It's more like a pat on the back more than anything.

yeah. gathered that from the start. i was just having a joke in reply to blitz comment.

I was being serious! :)
CYer, Blitz

when will the webform for this section be up souri ? [:)] man so many games that are good are in the running... i don't know which one to choose.......

wow..out of all these games I've played only one; AFL live 2004
The solution: I NEED TO PLAY MORE GAMES!!!!!!

I just put up the vote form for this. You people better start voting! *shakes fist*

ummm, how does one access this vote form? i can't see a link anywhere on the site

its on the front page, but heres a link too
[url]http://www.sumea.com.au/sawards2003.asp[/url]

oh yes, there it is. didn't notice it

That reminds me, Bridge It, made (at least in part?) by Auran was released a few weeks ago. Sorry for the late one :(
Now maybe i should get around to playing some of these games :)
CYer, Blitz

Grrr... what's it with people selecting only 2 or 3 of the 8 categories!! *shakes fist even harder*.. incomplete submissions won't get counted. Vote on all 8 categories!

Probably because people haven't (for instance) played any of those gba games etc. so they don't want to vote for them?
CYer, Blitz

Sen Saint... that the anime-ish 3rd person hack and slash type of thang?

If it is, we got sent it in a job app from one of the guys that worked on it... pretty sure it was it.

i worked on veneficium as did kalin

and those screenshots were not from any of the games this year, in fact some of the locals here may recognise their work among them, such as malus and pants

That would be an affirmative.
The Shot that belongs to Malus is the skeletal creature (I think that?s the one in the mag, had a two second look in the newsagents)
Mine is the Velociraptor with the palm and the mountains in the background and there was another shot from a friend called Hydro, the space ship one.
None of these are from games, though Malus? creature did appear in his teams game.

Pantmonger

Arghhhh don't let that out, its 2 yrs old!!! MINES CRAP!! [:)]
Why they are showing old work is beyond me.

quote:Originally posted by Malus


Why they are showing old work is beyond me.

Because otherwise they would have to ask us first :P

Michael

what im wondering is why they used your art at all? we sent them screenshots when they asked for them...
ah well

If you are considering a programming course- most definitely not worth it. If you're even remotely hoping to get a job out of the course you're kidding yourself. Out of the entire course last year, only one person was actually employed as a result of the course or the "industry" night (AKA- DIY Invite-Your-Own-Contacts Night). The artsy-fartsy people seemed to have faired proportionately better though in all honesty everyone I spoke to in the graphics-oriented course were already extremely talented and technically competent before they even started at Qantm so they were headed places anyway. I don't know how many artists actually got employed in game dev though. Most likely 3 or 4 at the most.

If you really want to do a game development oriented course, I'd suggest doing the one offered through Griffith. To the best of my knowledge it is taught by Dale Freya who was involved for a short amount of time in our course at Qantm. While his lessons didn't really fit into the Qantm course structure, it was clear he was a well-organised instructor who actually cared about the content he was delivering and given the reputation for better management of proper universities as opposed to private institutions like Qantm, I'd say that would be a REALLY good course to get into. His personal web site provided in his own time at his own expense for his students was always up to date and full of relevant content, while Qantm's "student portal" stopped being updated 2 months into the course, then they proposed a new one later in the year but it proved just as useless. I can't comment on the odds of getting a job out of the Griffith course being much better than at Qantm but I can say they definitely wouldn't be any worse, and you would definitely learn a lot more there.

Qantm's biggest (but certainly not their only) shortcoming is piss-poor management. Their biggest strength is their marketing department, but only so far as marketing itself to potential students and not when it comes to marketing it's students to potential employers where it suddenly becomes non-existant and students are left to do all the work. I'd suggest speaking to students currently studying but most of them will still be fairly optimistic. They still have the carrot of an "industry" night dangling before their noses and the belief that if they work hard enough, being at Qantm will open the doors to job opportunities. If you want to complete a course specifically for the job at the end, game development is the wrong avenue to be looking at first up. Places like Spherion (http://www.spherion.com.au) have a placement rate of well over 90% of it's graduates into IT positions, and while a lot of them are just help desk and tech support roles, just as many positions are programming related and they have enough industry contacts OF THEIR OWN (ie- not student-provided) to be able to offer a lot of otherwise unavailable traineeships to students. It's not game development but let's face it- the game dev industry demands pretty much cream-of-the-crop programmers, and if you have no commercial experience in programming at all you're going to have a hard time proving yourself. With this kind of option you are virtually guaranteed a job which complements your grades, you are getting paid programming experience, you can still apply your new skills to game development and learn new ones through the countless internet resources available, and ultimately if you still want to get into game development you'll have developed enough skills to be able to walk into a studio like Krome confident in your proven abilities instead of relying on a short course with a reputation for not delivering to impress the interviewers.

That won't really sound as appealing as the image Qantm presents. In an ideal world, yes you would walk out of the course with a solid understanding of all aspects of game development and would be able to walk into a job with one of the many studios who open their arms to Qantm's graduates. It's not like that though. I am somewhat more disgruntled than most students because I feel I was screwed over significantly more than other students for various reasons so before taking my word as gospel, speak to some other past students. This year's students will probably give a positive appraisal as past years' students would have (myself included) during the course itself, but once it's all over and they're serving burgers for a living (myself not included, just for the record) then see how they think.

OK while your post didn't mention it, I noticed the header specifies the Graphic Design diploma as opposed to the Software Development one. Same basic concepts apply though, especially regarding job prospects and the "industry" night. Alternatives such as the Computer Graphics College (http://www.cgc.com.au) are a much better alternative to Qantm, with MUCH better odds of scoring a job through them and, by all accounts of past students, a well-organised course with no real complaints.

Just don't let yourself be bitten on the arse by Qantm like so many others. Consider all options, and don't be a sucker to savvy marketing. Either way, good luck.

I'm not looking for a programming game job....

I just want to do illustrating or something. visual stuff...

Well thanks for your advice anyway.... it sounds like a rip off course that goes nowhere.

For a programmer, yes it is. For an artist, don't completely dismiss it on count of my opinion because I didn't personally do the art stream. Be sure to ask around first... see how other people who completed that course feel. Maybe it might offer you something worthwhile. Just don't base your decision on what Qantm tells you, and DEFINITELY don't go into it with the expectation that Qantm will help you get a job.

well to me qantm is probably the closes place for anything art related.
I've looked at all the tafes (in brisbane) as well and they are certainly cheaper than qantm by miles... let's say 1:15. I just want to do something to get into arts in university.

I don't know anyone who has been to qantm and did graphic designs...well not that I've noticed.

I just don't want to relocate at the moment.

It is my understanding that Qantm would be good for anything art related, they seem to have been doing it for a while.

And Qantm probably might not get you a job directly, but that's not to say that going there doesn't help. ;)

Any course you only get out what you put in, and in an industry as competitive as game dev, you can't expect to walk out of a course and into a job just because you have a piece of paper saying you completed a course. When you have so few graduates it tends to be mroe up to individuals rather than institutions that will affect the employment rate of graduates.
CYer, Blitz

I don't want a job directly after though.
Ijust want to do fine arts after doing graphic design to get some credits to get there.
But is it possible to use that as credit to get into say QUT or GU... they don't say if they will allow it.

Why not QIBT? It's part of GU. Do their Diploma in Design and I believe it will get you into 2nd year design QCA. I'm not too sure. Check their website. I've read about it a long time ago and not sure if I remember it correctly.

Hey, I managed to get the website.
http://www.qibt.qld.edu.au/dds.asp
but you need a good GPA to be able to get into 2nd year Bachelor of Design at Griffith.

QUT has a Bachelor of Creative Industries which you can major in heaps of different things like Art and Communication Design (multimedia). [url]http://creativeindustries.qut.edu.au/studyopt/creativeindu/index.jsp[/u…]
Good Luck with whatever you choose!

I would love to get into QUT...except my OP is too low.

If you get into ANY uni and do it for a year its really easy to upgrade. My OP wasn't up to scratch for what I wanted to get into after year 12 (well I don't know what my OP was but my UAI was 82). So I did Arts at UQ for a year and ended up with a GPA of 5.25 (credit) for that year, and that gave me a rank equivalent to an OP 2, so now I'm doing IT/Comm Design at QUT.
So yeah, my advice is if you want to go to uni, just try to get in ANYWHERE, after that its a lot easier to do what you want! Good Luck!

quote:Originally posted by Leviron


Seriously, if I complete this what kind of job would I realistically get?

Realistically? You won't get a job from it - it's just another bullet on your resume. It's a course, not certification that you've got the skills and talents that an employer seeks. However, you -will- know the next batch of peers to be entering the industry, you -will- have that extra bullet on your resume, and you -will- have the opportunity and resources to work on those all important skills; same as any other course in this category.

If you have what an employer is seeking, then you'll get a junior graduate position - some companies have higher base salaries for graduate than for green juniors.

I believe that it's not the course itself, but what your willing to do with it (meet people, talk to your peers, make contacts, learn industry info, spend time developing your own skills, etc etc)...

but of course, it's all just my opinion [;)]

Listen to joel! He'll (only very) occasionaly come up with smart things like thid ;) *humps joels leg*

I've just told qtac that I want it as my first preference. By all means I'm not expecting to get a job right away and get my $14,985+ back right after...I'll probably pour another 20 grand down somewhere else 8 months after qantm. I am only trying to see if this is a worthwhile bullet point. Its not like I'll struggle with this course... I'm sure I can handle it because its not accounting.

@
| <-- lollypop...
| a'la Warner Bros. "Sucker" call

I see you are quite against it.

So anyone interested in drawing skills like:
[img]http://www.uchiha.net/leviron/web/liv_small.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.uchiha.net/leviron/web/artwork.jpg[/img]

Nice work Leviron, every one you do is better than the previous one.

OMG that is some nice realistic sketching !!!!! you are very talented !!. I love the first one... shes HOT [:o]

I am writing to this thread to provide a counter point to ferret's view's about QANTM. An active thread currently underway will allow people to view both side's of this story and can be found [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=430&whichpage=1"]here [sumea.com.au][/url]. In particular, the counter points are provided from [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=430&whichpage=3"]page 3 [sumea.com.au][/url]. I am happy to discuss any issues anyone may have on sumea, or in person. I can be contacted through QANTM by telephone, or by email at dbostock@qantm.com.au .

Darren Bostock

Quite frankly this thread is about Graphics Design. I went to the qantum forum... I still know jack nothing about it...other than a very brief course outline and the cost of the course which is $14,985 AUD.

Say if someone does the course and gets the degree.... where do they go? More uni or work?
Will this course let graduates go into second year fine arts at university?

Well Brisbane doesn't really offer a lot of college art options... the only other Major art college is at SBIT Morningside campus and I don't really want to go there.

quote:Originally posted by Leviron
Quite frankly this thread is about Graphics Design. I went to the qantum forum... I still know jack nothing about it...other than a very brief course outline and the cost of the course which is $14,985 AUD.

I know this thread is about Graphics design. Ferret chose to take it of topic and discuss the programming course and I am providing a counter point to anyone searching through these forums. My apologies if that offends you.

Were you Kaiser on the forum? I saw that thread and unfortunately it looks like there are no active Graphic Design students using the forum or answering your post. I do know that there are not a large number of GD students at QANTM so my guess if they have not seen your post. I will look at sending a group post to them tomorrow and ask they would mind providing some feedback to either this thread or the one on the QANTM forums.

quote:Originally posted by Leviron
Say if someone does the course and gets the degree.... where do they go? More uni or work?
Will this course let graduates go into second year fine arts at university?

Well Brisbane doesn't really offer a lot of college art options... the only other Major art college is at SBIT Morningside campus and I don't really want to go there.

I do not have the answers to those questions but will pass them onto the relevant people to find out.

Darren Bostock

quote:Originally posted by Leviron
Say if someone does the course and gets the degree.... where do they go? More uni or work?
Will this course let graduates go into second year fine arts at university?

Well Brisbane doesn't really offer a lot of college art options... the only other Major art college is at SBIT Morningside campus and I don't really want to go there.

Leviron,

I passed your questions onto Greg Chandler who is one of the instructors for the Graphic Design courses here at QANTM. His email is gchandler@qantm.com.au . He provided the following response.

quote:
Hi Darren,
The strength of Qantm's course is it covers print and screen design from both a creative and technical perspective.(more arrows in the quiver) The qualification (diploma) is enough to get you a job. All graphic design students need to be aware that the competition for jobs is very high and a strong portfolio is often the edge needed to land a job, not necessarily the qual, I guess this is similar to the games industry Not sure about accreditation with uni, I would assume it would get you into 2nd year or there abouts. Obviously a degree would read better on a CV, but won't necessarily make you a better designer

If I can provide any other assistence, don't hesitate to contact myself or Greg. I told Greg to expect contact from you regarding the course.

Darren Bostock

i might go - if so. im interested :)

Im up for dat cheryl.... [:)] make sure J.I comes too [:)] c u guys / gals there [:)] i say we all wear sumea T-shirts [:)] hehe Souri u coming to melb too ?

I'll only be coming if I miraculously win the sumea challenge - only way I can afford it I'm afraid :(

yeah a lot of mad artists are after that prize too [:)] it will be very very tight since we got heaps of kick arse entrants this round......

I am interested, but can't come to the thursday one as I'll probably just be getting into Melbourne on that day. Although the one after the sony party I'll definetly be at!

what are the prices?

I'm in the same boat as joel it seems.

*pushes joel out of boat*

Hmm.. I'm interested, since I live in Melbourne anyway. I went to last year's AGDC with a friend. Tho after the brainwashing by the Xbox lecture, we came out rather dizzy.. lol. R u guys doin' the full 3 day thingy?? Cos that's fairly costly.
Anyway, here's the link to the costs if anyone's interested.
http://www.agdc.com.au/register/rego_entitlement.php

$800 if you get in early.

Holy f*cking crap.

rule me out.

ill go to the gold coast indy :)..thatll only cost me 100$. [8D]

I figure that some of the people in and around Melbourne may want to drop by for the gatherings even if they can't afford to go to the AGDC itself :)

If I have the money at the time Ill definitely be there(Doubtfull)although I may show up to the venue and try to find a free back entrance. I wouldnt mind meeting a few of the people around here, should be interesting.

Just get a $30 (or whatever) expo pass. No one was scrutinizing peoples passes last year so you could probably get into talks and stuff, and if not, you can still talk to people in the expo bit.
CYer, Blitz

Thats probably a better idea :)

now they know your plans....no chance :)

Why is it that i cannot seem to log onto agdc ? My web browser freuses to recognise the domain ?

[?][?]

It's working now, www.agdc.com.au
It may have been down temporarily, microforte/aie's servers probably don't have the best uptimes in the world :)
CYer, Blitz

I live in Melbourne. So I'm interested.

i am going to be there, regarless of possibly having the best collection of game company rejection letter in exsistance :) was hoping to find out who won the sumea challenge first though, oh well~

Ok guys :) We are getting close to AGDC time!

I would guess that if you are going you have booked by now - or at least knw you will be booking soon. So lets start getting some ideas of whos going, when people are avaiable, and what people are interested in.

I thought a 5:30 to 6:30pm meet time on the Thursday night at the Convention center would be good just to grab everyone and go out for a quick "hello dinner".

The big fun will be Saturday night after the Sony party. I thought Bar Code (is that the name?) of the games bar in Crown could be good fun for most everyone.

Just a note - if you plan to go out to Crown on Sat night I would suggest wearing at least smart casual.

Hi Cheryl,

I can't really call myself a "Sumean" having only posted 3 times and I'm also not going to the AGDC, but I'm in Melbourne and doing some game development work in my free time. I'd be interested in going to the dinner if that's ok?

I assume by Thursday you mean the 20th?

Damon

There's currently 50 visitors who've voted that they're going to the AGDC this year... so where are you all? [:)] Any other regulars going to meet up? I would definately be in on this if I were going to be at the AGDC!

Hey Damo,

I think it would be great to get the locals to come along even if they arent showing up to AGDC. I know CombatWombat wont be going to AGDC but will come for the Thursday night dinner.

Also, I am expecting Ninja to come! *pokes Ninja*

CW suggested http://www.bluetrain.com.au They are at Southbank and their prices dont look too bad. I ate there once ages ago and it was quite a nice meal.

BTW - for those who are coming and want to swap mobile numbers etc feel free to PM me or email jacana_s@yahoo.com.au

going to AGDC and stuff, i'll come to these dinner thingies as well, sounds like fun :)
I think u already got my number Cheryl.

Not going to AGDC but count me in for the Thursday thang... [:P]

A good place for dinner is http://www.bluetrain.com.au - although it does have the drawback that they don't take bookings. Nice and close to the exhibition centre too.

Cheers,

Mark/CombatWombat

quote:Originally posted by tachyon

going to AGDC and stuff, i'll come to these dinner thingies as well, sounds like fun :)
I think u already got my number Cheryl.

Yup Yup :) Sure do! Also would be good if we can get Matthew and Adam to come along!

Btw - did you ever get the topic list email? No reply from you on that!

hey cheryl count me in that dinner too [:D] looking forward to meeting you all [:)]

A stranger is knocking on the portals of Sumea.

"I humbly ask for an invitation to your meeting" he utters, brushing the dust of a long journey off his coat. Maybe his accent is a little strange, but he looks like an honest gamer...

/RPG off

I would be very happy if I may join you at your gathering. I am not really a sumean, apart from reading this forum since april this year [;)] I am a gameaudio guy from Berlin, and I will be visiting Melbourne for the AGDC.

Hoping to see you all soon
Sylvius

quote:Originally posted by CombatWombat

A good place for dinner is http://www.bluetrain.com.au -

yeh.. provided they at least eventually get to serving you your meal - few bad experiences there but overall its pretty neat.. the owners also have automatic at crown.. which is the same thing, different building.. same menu - heh.

i'd definately be up for a get to know everyone..

Anyone want to post a map with the conference and the dinner location so people know exactly where to go?

I guess I have it all covered then.. [;)]

Does the material have to be 100% original? ( will a nice looking Batman model be acceptable? )

Just a note to say that I haven't forgotten about this. I've just sent off a tonne of emails to a lot of local developers, so hopefully I can compile a really nice guide for aspiring local game artists!

. If applying for a game development studio, is high poly work acceptable to submit? or just low poly?
. Most studios say VHS tapes. No CDs. Is a video DVD acceptable? ie. a properly authored DVD that can be played on a set top box.

Other than that, I think you have everything covered :)

it's very rare to find an australian company that does VHS - only Europe and some backwards studios in the US still request vhs

Blizzard say to only submit VHS for demo reels. That is their cinematic department though. I would like to know if this is a comfort reason (chill out on a big couch watching someones reel), or a jogging issue (instant ff/rew).

Cant wait to see the results, I was thinking of this a few weeks ago, and was going to to do it myself.Doing it this way will likely get more responses then if one person was just doing it for themselves. Its a great idea and will help out so much its not funny. With this information you can take out a lot of the guessing involved. I would love to see what the indusrty thinks of concepts artists/3d animators having higher education behind them ie...

Do they only employ people with a University Degree, or can someone with a diploma, or self taught with a great portfolio have an equal chance as the person with a University degree?

Whats there prefered software, Ie, Photoshop or Corel, Maya, Max, or Lightwave etc...

I'm pretty sure that if you hand over an absolutely amasing reel that makes them sit back with their mouth open and say absolutely nothing. You will have a job. They won't not give you a job just because you don't have a printed little piece of paper. Anyone can study, but not everyone can create absolutely brilliant work. Don't worry if you don't have any certs behind you. Just work on your art :)

I have some answers back already, and there's some real eye opener stuff. I'm sure once the article is up, it'll be *essential* reading for new artists who want to work in the local industry, especially art students from places like the AIE and Qantm. I wouldn't be surprised if they overlook and improve their course in some way from the insights revealed from the article. They'd be silly not to.

What software local developers prefer would have been a good question to include, but as you might have gathered, I've sent the questions out already.

I think it'd be very beneficial if we have a similar article for programmers sometime down the track.

Too true. Personally i think AIE could improve their coding side of things in a number of areas, hopefully they will improve next year! These courses are still very new (1-3 years old) so it's only natural that they still need to evolve in a number of areas. I'm sure it will still be a few years before industry looks at AIE and QANTM as THE place to pinch new coders from :)
CYer, Blitz

You went into second year Blitz! What coding side? They don't teach you anything in second year ;)

Thats part of the problem. At this stage they don't seem to teach enough in the first year of the course to just leave the students to their own devices in second year. The experience/knowledge of software design and management is just not there.
CYer, Blitz

A few guys I work with were 'pinched' from qantm after a one year coding course, if they were skilled enough in 1 year imagine how good they'll be in 5. Its not so much the time its what you acheive in that time, I guess some people are just more attuned to code than others.

Hi this sounds really interesting! :)
Has this gone up in the Articles section?
I had a look but couldn't find anything...

It's not up yet, I'm still waiting on answers from a few people. The creative director of Auran is overseas but I should be getting something from them soon, and it's pretty hard getting any responses from Rat Bag and Micro Forte (going through their press email address). I should be getting responses from Blue Tongue and Atari Melbourne House, and the rest I will have to follow up. I have answers from Irrational Games, Torus, Sidhe etc which have been incredible to read..

Now you're just torturing me. How about providing a snippet or excerpt of the interviews?

Yes!! I'm salivating here Souri. PWEEEEEEEEEASE! @:-D

It should be good to see the varied views of games industry professionals posted soon. I think getting into the industry has to be one of the most interesting and sometimes most difficult thing to do. I know when I look at portfolios that come across my path, i see alot of talent and skilled prospective employees, normally the portfolios concentrate on the strengths of an individual, this can make it difficult to judge one person from another. I always like to look at the lesser skills of an individual to base a decision, this give me insight into what motivates a person, and can make the difference. With the size of alot of companys theres a great need for transportable skill sets, the need to know modelling, texturing and some code can be really important, and enables for you can get a multi role postiton, or more to the point to interact with everyone in a company. Interpersonal skills is obviously the largest contributing factor to scoring a job at an interview level, and if you make it that far, do make an effort to iterate your work ethic, and abilities to relate and foster good working relationships, this kinda of attitude will make the difference when it comes to selectiing someone from a short list.
for all you artists out there, I feel that there is a need for more skilled photoshop / texture artists.. it is the most lacking thing I see when looking at peoples work, who often concentrate purely on modelling... this isnt enough! at the end of the day its the work of the texture artist that can make a crap model a bloody excellent one. And remember don't give up trying, dedication to landing a job is the only way to get one, and be confident! anyhow my rant ends here.
cheers

insightfull, what company do you come from?

quote:Originally posted by Souri

It's not up yet, I'm still waiting on answers from a few people. The creative director of Auran is overseas but I should be getting something from them soon, and it's pretty hard getting any responses from Rat Bag and Micro Forte (going through their press email address). I should be getting responses from Blue Tongue and Atari Melbourne House, and the rest I will have to follow up. I have answers from Irrational Games, Torus, Sidhe etc which have been incredible to read..

The Micro Forte crew always seemed to answer my emails and one of the guys who works there was kind enough to write me an article on how to get into the games industry [:)]. I cant remember exactly who but i would probably need permission from him to distribute it. I found it helpful, im not sure what others will think, but i'll try too get permission to give it too Souri then he can upload it too Sumea [;)].

Just an update with how this is going, I'm just waiting for about 4 more responses. I have answers from about 6 creative directors already - more than enough to put up really, but I think the article will be more rounded with the final 4 (some who were away on holidays and are probably getting back around about now)..

quote:Originally posted by Souri

Just an update with how this is going, I'm just waiting for about 4 more responses. I have answers from about 6 creative directors already - more than enough to put up really, but I think the article will be more rounded with the final 4 (some who were away on holidays and are probably getting back around about now)..

/me giggles like a schoolgirl [;)].

Hi.. I thought I might post some notes I wrote on getting employment in the games industry. I compiled this essay for a talk I gave a bunch of students from Hong Kong City University, it was well received so I thought someone out there would like read it also.

http://kubrick.cdes.qut.edu.au/~n4675215/misc/employgames.rtf

Its an interesting read and covers a little history and the creative industrys.. so enjoy!

quote:Originally posted by Souri
I think it'd be very beneficial if we have a similar article for programmers sometime down the track.

how about now? souri, keep them emails of local developers, or send the list to me, and ill start a new thread...

The email addresses I have are for the creative directors, and it's probably not a good idea if I pass their email addresses around. Get that programmer question thread happening and I'll see on sending the questions.

An update on the artist portfolio questions, at this point I have replies from Irrational Games, Torus Games, Sidhe Interactive, Halfbrick Studios, Discreet, THQ Studio Australia, and Micro Forte. Plus I have some old forum posts that I'll put in the article from Brad Wlech at Pandemic, and Steve Wang from Micro Forte. Blue Tongue's creative director is on holidays, but I know the questions have been passed on to the creative directors over at Atari Melbourne House, Krome Studios, and Auran, so I'm hoping to get the answers from them soon!

I hope to get mine reply in any day now.

Thanks Steve! I know all you Creative Directors are busy people who aren't sitting around waiting for things to do, so I'm sure everyone appreciates your time in doing this for us!

lol talk about suspence, youve got me hyped up here!!

dam this thread is in my faves because i want to read this list as soon as possible.

I just want too know what they DONT want too see in a portfolio.

ooo oooo, sounds cool. do u know if its too late to order tickets?

plenty of tickets left...Hope to see you there.

Dont suppose you can put it off till Sunday just for me? *grin*
I am actually heading down to Melb this coming weekend. Seems I miss it by a few days :(

Yes that would be good...its a bit busy at the moment, I could use a few more days

I'll be there, I take it I dont need to pre-book tickets.
I hope to see others from this site attending.

just got back from it today, went to all three sessions (lots of plugs about AIE but hey, they sponsored it so what do u expect). First two sessions were good, especially the Atari Transformers Case Study, I thought Mark was a really good speaker (i would have though he would be better at the game he's making though lol). I thought the thrid session about games careers was a bit boring (my gf went with me and fell asleep...). Was mainly a bunch of people talking about their careers which were slightly outside of the games industry. Overall, i thought the event was okay (worth missing out a day of uni for anyway).

sorry, i'm complete shite at describing things i've been to, which anyone that knows me can vouch for...

yeah i was so bored in that games career section too... nearly fell asleep.... [:(] i missed out on both the transformers case which was a bummer [:(]

hehe David Giles u have quite an interesting / amazing background [:)]

oh wells AGDC it is [:)].....

I got in free to the first one because I showed up late :) But I liked all 3 talks, Transformers looked pretty good, a lot better than what I thought the ps2 could pull off. I found the guy talking about architecture in the third session to be rather interesting. and that little display he showed off using torque was cool. Plus I asked the guy who did the transformers presentation if he could get me into the AGDC for free but he said no :(

yeh the third one was crap as.. i feel sorry for everyone who came just to the last session - as it sounded to be one of the most interesting ones - i was expecting them to talk about different avenues you can take (like different courses), the things you should be doing outside of uni in your own time to prepare for a job, and stuff like talking about a folio and stuff like that.

instead it was all 'well, uhh, yeh - i made cement blocks for a few years' - no offence to the dude.. they were pretty cool cement blocks ;)

After seeing all the AIE stuff around, I really thought that the third one would be an one hour AIE plug (much like the game careers session at agdc last year).

thats what we were waiting for too..

So from the other side of things - How do you feel this went David? Well enough to run it again next year? Already have ideas for things you want to change?

They have info for the Melbourne campus in the new AIE handbook.

The new campus in Melbourne is being run by Atari as far as I know. They also will not be taking in first year programmers until 2005.

The Melbourne campus will only focus on the Game Dev stream for artists and programmers where as the Canberra campus does Advanced Maya/Max stuff.

LOL now they do a games development course...... about time i waited for this for years.!!! ITs good to see that they are starting to speed up finally !!! I knew mad academy did it but we want to see more schools opening up.... it will be a good opportunity for young talented artists to get into game development.

$150,000 is pretty weak when you consider how much money this could bring to australian shores if we beef up our talent pool.

Interesting point:

quote:The workload of 20 hours a week leaves students enough time for freelance projects and other paid work while they study, Giles explained.

I'm not sure of the subjects/teaching at AIE, but does this mean a reduced cirriculum?

I don't think so, it just means that they can have a near full time job at the same time for living expenses etc.

Consider that most uni degrees (at least the comp sci ones) only have about 15-20 contact hours a week. I dunno how many hours the average tafe course requires...
CYer, Blitz

tafe courses are about 20hours im pretty sure.

the course i did was 4 days a week 9 hours a day (36hours) class time. for 48weeks from memory. little help that was though :) lol

Well at uni now I have only 10 hours of actual contact with lecturers at all, but I spent a large amount of time doing assignments and meeting with other members of my project group etc. So yeah, it would end up being about 35-40 hours a week in all.

And yeah, just to mention that there's a snippet on the AIE in Melbourne on Gamasutra.

quote:Originally posted by Maitrek

$150,000 is pretty weak when you consider how much money this could bring to australian shores if we beef up our talent pool.

I agree. You can see the export awards that local game developers are getting in the arts & media categories. Micro Forte, Krome, Sidhe Interactive, Rat Bag, and probably more. Governments all around the world are certainly sitting up and taking notice that game development is a real money spinner for the economy. The French government is putting in [url="http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003Jul/gee20030723020954.htm"]US$4.5 million for game development start ups[/url] over there, for example..

Oh, and the AIE students will be learning in the same building as the Melbourne House people. How cool is that? [:)]

Souri - at the AIE we were in the same building as MF canberra.. I think we were given a total of one tour of the studio :)

I think they should be investing more into startups.. Start creating more jobs for the people that graduate.. Theres going to be roughly 30 graduates from the Diploma 2 at the AIE this year.. I don't know where they're all going to find jobs..

Hell, as far as I know, only 2 - 3 of last years AIE graduates that actually got employment (no programmers got game jobs), and thats not for lack of trying on the others behalf (I know :P look at me)..

Actually from your class last year Hamish got a job. IIRC he was working for Bullant for a while.

But I do agree with the number of students being greater then the number of jobs available. Also this years students have more competition with places like LaTrobe running courses as well... *sigh*

But then again one thing our tutor points out to us. We may not be able to get a job in the industry right away. But as "game dev progrmmers" most companies look at us as being very good programmers. So there is at least a good chance of getting a job at all. Where as he sees artists quite a bit more limited in where they can go after school.

Application development.... yea!

IMO investing money into game dev startups isn't that great an idea. In certain special cases it would be good, but i think it's starting to get to the point where the average start-up cannot successfully compete in game development, with the exception of handhelds. The french goverment is probably planning to fund a multitude of startups with that cash, but they would probably be best usign it to fund 2 or 3 to start with a huge head of steam, so they can start with a team of 20+ developers for their first title. Of course this may be what they're planning to do! Especially if they plan to cover 40% of game dev costs...thats about $600,000+ there.
CYer, Blitz

Just to clear up a bit of a misunderstanding the AIE Melbourne campus is not being run by Atari. Obviously we (I) have strong links with them but a great deal of our course content will be more useful for other developers in Vic.

Thanks for clearing that up David :)

Since your around maybe you can answer this, too.

The AIE handbook shows no programmers till 2005. Is that only first year programmers or is that also second year?
And if so does that mean you wont graduate your first full game dev group through the program until 2007?

The fist stage is currently only for people wanting to skill up in 3D. The programmer intake for 2004 is only for the 2nd and more advanced stage of the diploma. We will be wanting programmers with a bit of C and C++ under their belts. The course is designed to make them very industry ready and so we will teach game industry specific programming not a course in how to code. It will be an intensive year but I want people to finish the course with skills that are eminently useful in the majority of game dev studios. This mainly driven from spending 9 years saying no to people that wanted to work....

So *just making sure I understand here* you will produce a 2nd year class at the end of 2004?

Then the next question is: In what ways does the course differ from (or does it?) from what AIE Canberra is already running, in terms of the Game Dev stream.

Also, how will the tutor situation work down there? As we have tutors in Canberra that come from MF and up in Bris the Qantm students have tutors from Auran. Are students going to have access to "industry established" tutors?

Yes we will produce a 2nd year class at the end of 2004.

The main difference between the Canberra course and the Melbourne one is that at the stage 2 level we will have direct intake at this advanced level which means we will not spend the whole year working on a game. Instead the start of the year is dedicated to folio building and learning about tools and techniques of the trade. Later on in the year the art and programming streams combine to work on a game level.
I will also be teaching a game design and theory course (game deconstruction) that will also be picked up in Canberra...(I've got to finish writing that) One of the main issues we have found over the years is that the best coders and artists know why a game works not just that it is cool. We will be teaching that to the second stage students

Yes our staff will be ex industry vets. I am speaking to quite a number at the moment who are interested in teaching what they know.

quote:Originally posted by Sorceror Bob

Souri - at the AIE we were in the same building as MF canberra.. I think we were given a total of one tour of the studio :)

I think they should be investing more into startups.. Start creating more jobs for the people that graduate.. Theres going to be roughly 30 graduates from the Diploma 2 at the AIE this year.. I don't know where they're all going to find jobs..

Hell, as far as I know, only 2 - 3 of last years AIE graduates that actually got employment (no programmers got game jobs), and thats not for lack of trying on the others behalf (I know :P look at me)..

Um, I'm working @ Blue Tongue and another porgrammer is doing a PhD.

Hehe, PhD is a job they pay your for with peanuts!
Btw, what gives you the idea that investing in startups will neccessarily create more jobs than investing in established business's? It might create some jobs in the short-term, but the reality is that most startups go belly up rather quickly, so what use is a job (to the industry) that only lasts 6 months?
CYer, Blitz

Just wanted to mention...

I saw an article in todays "The Age" in Melbourne on the AIE Melbourne campus. Kinda brief - it covered most of what David has already talked about here (in less detail really) and had a nice piece of artwork in the article by one of the 2nd year artists (second half of the week group).

"nice piece of artwork in the article by one of the 2nd year artists "
is that the guy who drew the maddest dwarf, propperly inked and everything? Im first half of the week so I dont usually venture to the "other" side :P

Naw... it was the fighter chick thats being used in the front inside cover of the new handbook.

My girlfriend is interested in taking a part time course in the melbourne campus, and was wondering whether the
Cert II in Basic 3D Electronic Animation is offered in melbourne next year? There's not much info on the website about its availblility in the melbourne campus.

I've sent an email off to David Giles, so hopefully he can answer your question soon!

As far as I know with the Melbourne campus they are totally focused on the Game Dev stream. I would assume this means they will not be running short course or anything thats outside of that stream (programming or art).

But I am sure David could provide better info :)

Currently Melbourne is only offering stage 1 (1yr) 3d art and and 2nd Stage (1yr) art and programming. Hope this helps

heaps helpful. thanks for the info

hehehheh, how about a student auction as well

'fresh meat, freash meat'

I'm surprised no one has jumped in here with tonnes of suggestions yet. There's plenty of issues that can be raised, but I think the most important one (which was recently raised in that AIE Melbourne thread) is where to go, once the course is over. What are your options, and what to do if you can't find work.

It's interesting that everyone on the panel is from a different institution. You could probably talk about what kind of things you learn in your curriculum, and the best things you've gotten out of your courses.. although because you're all from different fields, I'm not sure how much of a discussion you can get going.

I'm glad Ross Symons is moderating, because I'm sure he can contribute lots on what developers look for, what they expect of graduates, and other important industry information.

Thanks Souri :) That thread has brought up some good points as well - many ideas for topics to discuss.

I am glad to have Ross moderating as well. Next week I am down in Vic for a visit and will be having lunch with Ross, Matthew, and Chen-po. I thought this would be a great time to discuss some ideas, work out topics (or at least a short list), and makes sure we are not walking into the panel as strangers.

One of the topics that I thought worth discussing in a bit of depth is communication. Either in a student to student or student to industry. There are quite a few good places, such as Sumea, to go to for starters. Mentor programs at the schools between current and future students, and just how to break the barrier when approaching companies/indivudials from the industry.

Booth babes!

ummm....and....hmmm.....

I'd *like* to see the expo become a bigger deal, with developers showing off their current projects, rather than just the hardware/tools manufacturers. I doubt thats gonna happen soon though.
As far as seminars, i personally am most interested in the business ones and the console specific ones. These, to me, are much harder to get information on outside of these conferences (particularly if you don't have access to devkits/info). So these talks generally hold valuable information for me. The talks on peoples experiences are also good. If you can learn from someone elses mistakes, it can keep you from making the same mistakes yourself :)
I don't like talks that try to cover to broad a topic. It's a waste of time, you don't really get anything valuable out of these talks.
I think it would be difficult to have a "hands on" approach, particularly some of the more popular talks last year were packing the rooms out, and those rooms seated about 80+ people.
I attend the AGDC to have a good time, that involves learning new things and meeting people. It's really a bit of both to me, but i definately try and get the most out of the talks while i'm there.
Did i mention booth babes?
CYer, Blitz

Yeah definitely booth babes ;)

I think everyone would like to see the expo become a bigger deal.

I agree, the business development seminars are great and as you said "learning from someone elses mistakes" is some of the best advise you'll ever get.

Games

You'd probably want more publishers coming down under I'd think to make it worth-while to show off games in development at the expo. I mean the Unsigned Games Booth thing is a good start because it allows people to show games in progress that normally wouldn't have the money to do that.

But yeah, you'd need more big publishers coming along for there to be games in booths at the expo. (And then we'll start getting booth babes) :-)

I'll go with everyone else on the booth babes, definitely a must.

But in all seriousness - I think some of the talks are far too much of a "preaching to the converted" affair. It's hard because we (the oz industry) don't get alot of exposure in the media and alot of people take the oppurtunity of the AGDC to simply talk about their business/educational institution and promote the institution - as opposed to sharing real information and educating attendees.

As far as I see it, the expo part is where you should promote business (and there weren't many people taking advantage of that), and the talks should be focussed on more educational/research based material etc. Ie - sharing experience/wisdom, things like how ppl trip up in the industry, what are "mistakes" and what are "bad decisions" and how we need to cope with these things on all levels (marketing, development, publishing etc etc).

Last year the best talks were the ones for those interested in the business of running games - as far as marketing/development talks went it was pretty 'lame' (I say that tentatively, I'm just saying those talks were disappointing, although not quite outright 'crap').

Two hints for future AGDCs - workshops ala GDC would be a great idea (if there were willing participants). The lecture style format is pretty dull (panels are *slightly* better), and it never seems like there's enough time to really get anywhere with a subject, just seems like the surface of a subject is covered. Maybe have 2 or 3 part talks and make them like 45 mins each or something. I dunno, just some ideas!

I am all for some booth hunks while we are at it. Some good looking chipndale type guys!
Booth-cake for all! *drool*

If you bring in booth babes you are going to turn the AGDC into the 3 ring circus that E3 is. If you want booth babes go there. If you can't afford to go there go to www.e3boothbabes.com or what ever it is.

You are there to learn more about the industry your in!
I think you need to move past the booth babes.

quote:Originally posted by Jacana

I am all for some booth hunks while we are at it. Some good looking chipndale type guys!
Booth-cake for all! *drool*

If you bring in booth babes you are going to turn the AGDC into the 3 ring circus that E3 is. If you want booth babes go there. If you can't afford to go there go to www.e3boothbabes.com or what ever it is.

You are there to learn more about the industry your in!
I think you need to move past the booth babes.

Jacana, don't take the booth babes too seriously we're just having a laugh.
The idea of this thread is to discuss whether we can actually learn more about the industry from attending the AGDC, and if the current format is designed to give us what we really want or if it's what the organisers "think" we want.

You've got to admit, it's one helleva expensive weekend (especially for interstate travellers) and it can be difficult to justify the cost if it's not delivering the content people really want to see.

Until you DO get publishers coming in from overseas (not anytime soon) theres no point really in established developers showing off games that don't have a contract yet. I was thinking more of the games that do have a publishing contract, probably as much to advertise the company to prospective employees and peers as much as anything else.
CYer, Blitz

It's a tough question to answer, I think. You can see the AGDC is trying to cater for everyone, but it's not surprising that people aren't pleased with the depth of which their field is represented. You provide a talk that's accessible to everyone (students and industry people alike), and those in the industry will find it redundant. You provide a talk that's indepth and technical, but students and new comers will feel left out. I'm sure the AGDC has considered the problem and tried to balance out as much as they could, but it's hard to please everyone I guess.

I've wondered what I would personally want from a conference that would cost me $800 to go to. It's not enough to provide a few hour long tutorials relevant to me because I could buy a whole heap of excellant books and videos and still have plenty of change from that amount.

I think the career scheme they've started this year is a nice idea though. I reckon the AGDC could provide some "post mortem" talks on what went right/what went wrong with some local game titles.

Thats what i was talking about earlier. If you're paying $800, you want to be getting information/learning that you couldn't otherwise get. Thats why i think most of the technical talks are a bit of a waste, but the experience talks are great. The business ones i also enjoy because i personally find this information difficult to come by.
Btw, i think that the CD/s the AGDC is making with all of the talks on it should be available to all AGDC attendees for free (+ postage), considering paying $800 but only being able to attend about 1/5 of the talks on offer...
CYer, Blitz

Wow! this is great news... I think back to the inaugural AGDC in Sydney '99 and by chance I got talking to these two very friendly, enthusiastic young Kiwi guy's who told me about their newly formed game dev business Sidhe. At the time they'd only produced demo's and were on the lookout for a publisher so I introduced them to the owner of HES and he obviously saw potential in what these guy's had to offer. I'm very happy things have worked out for Sidhe and it proves how important attending trade shows can be from a networking perspective.

Hey man,

I'm one of those two 'young' guys :) What was your name again?

AGDC '99 seems so long ago now...

Regards

Mario

How's it going Mario, my name is Chris (you may remember I was working for Torus at the time).

BTW your game screens look very cool, I'm sure they'll be a lot of happy League fans out there once this game hits the shelves :)

All the best, and hopefully we'll catch up one day.

Cheers, Chris

I can attest to the popularity of Sidhe's Rugby League game. My referrer logs (it shows sites that link to Sumea, and whatever users click to come here, like Google searches) show so many people seaching for it on Google and other search engines.. IR Guru's AFL 2003/2004 games are pretty popular too.

sounds good, i'd be interested (programmer). i just shot you off an email :)

Just a quick update.

Things are looking good for the panel this year. There are a few details that I need to iron out but the abstract for the panel will be submitted on Friday. The panel has been pencilled in for the 11:35 am time slot on the Saturday.

After I get the abstract submitted I will post more details!

you would probably have seen me then...
i was the lead on the rts that was on show [:)]

Ahh, nice stuff there. Enjoyed the trailer @:-D

It was quite funny to see many games crashing on friday night...

/me slaps red

oi! once in the space of 2 days for a game made in 3 and a half months... i dont reckon thats too bad at all

and i remember your industry night red, so dont get too high and mighty [:p]

I was refering to the common use of Jet... ;)

I personally saw it crash 3 times!

Hey, my game didn't crash! It just kinda slowed down...

lies! all lies! [:D]

bwahahaha!

I was there on Friday night, had a look around, i was expecting alot more projects but there's was only a few....

there was one group missing
but apart from that, there were 3 on each project, so it just goes to show how small the class was [:)]

Actually, if you check the website, all the schedules, keynotes (and names), expo booths etc. are all up there. Perhaps the news should be edited to reflect this :)
CYer, Blitz

It's good that they posted the details a bit earlier this year, 3 months before the conference, whereas last year it was 2..

Good to see Zaph will be doing a talk.. Oh, and modeller extraordinaire and ex-id softwarer Paul Steed is coming down too!

Yea :) I noticed Zaph was presenting. Great to see!

Also - for the female devs out there I saw that on Sat. Sheri Graner Ray from Sony Online Entertainment is presenting Gender Inclusive Game Design - Expanding the Market. She will be worth a listen. Shes active in the Women in Dev egroup as well as a member of the IGDA's Women In Game Dev comittee.

For those who get the Game Dev magazines I noticed that Noah Falstein of The Inspiracy will be presenting on Friday. He has been doing the recent design articles. Something like 400 Design Mistakes.

have to go this year- hopefully run into some of you?? :)

Wow, that schedule is bursting full of goodness :D

Although I hate how there are so many things on at the same time :(

And Jacana, how is "Gender Inclusive Game Design" just for the female developers? You sexist!

Never said "Just for females" did I ;)
I was drawing the attention to it for a specific gender.

I will be there for sure Inglis. Maybe we need to do another Sumea meeting this year *Grin* Tho more organised then last year!

Hope you've noticed I will be giving a talk there (Friday, 11h)!!! Being a sumean (more the reading than the writing kind), I hope to get some support from you guys, specially coders.

I'm suprised there's no seminar concerning outsourcing and freelancing which I believe is a very important topic and will play a major role in the future of games development... many overseas studios are turning to art outsourcing to keep their core teams smaller and overheads down and this avenue has great potential for Australians/New Zealander's to capitalise on due to the value of our Dollar.

Just thinking about it, I'd be more than happy to talk about how to set yourself up as a self employed freelancer in the games industry, from my experience I've learnt the pitfalls and advantages and exactly what studios require when outsourcing... I'd be interested to see if there is enough interest in this area to warrant a seminar dedicated to the topic.

You should drop Pon an email. There is still a business session open on Friday and art & dev on Sunday.
Heck! Go for the gold! Try and fill the Sat night keynote *grin* I think it sounds like a great idea Red. You really should look into it.

I'm going to re-post Blitz's AGDC message here rather than reply to his post in another thread..

Blitz wrote:

Now that all the info is up, what are people interested in?
I think the prices are around the same as last year (not sure about the student prices). They don't have the saturday conference pass in there this year.

- No mention of the unsigned games booth yet, although by the looks of the expo layout the AIE got their wish of not being located right next to it this year :P (surprise..:))

- I really like the "Paid to Play" job/education fair thing, although it's gonna be a dead loss if they don't get a helluva lot more companies signed up for it!

- Keynote speakers are looking good, including, da man Seamus Blackley.

- Talks that look interesting...
: Scott Selfon, Microsoft- XBOX Developing a Practical Interactive Audio Engine
: Sheri Graner Ray, Sony Online Entertainment Gender Inclusive Game Design - Expanding the Market
: Guennadi Riguer, ATI Technologies The Dark Secrets of Shader Development
: Mario Wynands, Sidhe Interactive Building a game development studio today : Stuff you need to know! - Format workshop

And thats just on saturday!
Not to mention my AIE tutors get to rag on us in "'Learning by Doing' - Game Development at AIE" :P

And of course what would the AGDC be without the parties. Big party night at the Hi-fi bar this year, and i quote "battle each other in the giant boxing gloves". Seemingly NOT this year sponsored by MF :P

It's looking pretty good to me, other than the lack of career expo people, and a seeming lack of exhibitors at this stage.
I've typed too much.
CYer, Blitz

Apart from Paul Steed's tutorial on "Building a Digital Goddess" the conference doesn't have much too much to offer for artists. All the other Art and Development stuff is relevant to programmers. Of course, the conference is trying to cater to everyone, and I see there's a good mix of everything else in there that's interesting to attend to. Good to see a lot of the business development stuff..

Personally, I'd attend:

Paul Steed's tutorial (the guy really is good - so you modellers better rush to get a spot. Don't miss out!)

Noah Falstein, The Inspiracy The 400 Project - Using Rules of Game Design..

Steve Fawkner, Infinite Interactive 20 Things I have Learned in 20 Years of Creating Games - 20 years worth of experience... definately some valuable knowledge to be had here!

Thomas Daniel, Sony Computer Entertainment Introduction to PSP... Not much really is known about the PSP apart from the specs, so this would be a very interesting one to go to...

Kevin Burfitt, Atari Melbourne House Monkey Madness ? Using Monkeys to improve the game development process.. Zaph is on at the same time as the PSP one, but I would go to this too. I usually find monkeys to be smelly and cheeky. And always stealing ya stuff. [B)]

Mario Wynands, Sidhe Interactive Building a game development studio today : Stuff you need to know! - Format workshop...

Actually, I'd attend a lot of the Business Development stuff.

Yeh, interesting about the small amount of exhibitors.. they have another 3 months to get more I guess though..

So are we going to meet up again this year, and have like a big bash on sunday night or something, or perhaps on saturday night instead of the dinner?

quote:Originally posted by Daemin

So are we going to meet up again this year, and have like a big bash on sunday night or something, or perhaps on saturday night instead of the dinner?

The dinner is actually worth going to. Probably the best place to make contacts, I feel.

quote:Originally posted by JonathanKerr

quote:Originally posted by Daemin

So are we going to meet up again this year, and have like a big bash on sunday night or something, or perhaps on saturday night instead of the dinner?

The dinner is actually worth going to. Probably the best place to make contacts, I feel.

As long as your boss isn't in close vicinity ;)

Unfortunately the $140 price tag can be a bit rich for some people :)
CYer, Blitz

Exactly, that's why I say we should arrange something dinner/party/meeting like for all the people that don't go to the dinner.

:-)

I can do the arranging again ;)

How can we if we all live in Australia [;)]

quote:Originally posted by Red 5

How can we if we all live in Australia [;)]

Watch it, sonny boy!

I think a lot of the 3d artists and creative types tend to get snapped up by WETA workshop and WETA digital in NZ.

didn't u post this monts bak? that article mus b gettin old aye?

If you're going to mock a journalist, at least use some decent spelling. [;)].. It would be interesting to read that article when you've completed it, Jade. Make sure you let us know when it's up!

I think it might have been in reference to my post.
That was a totally different person looking for feedback from females for the World Cyber Games.

I dunno about any courses specifically for anime style drawing. There are probably courses around that focus on cartoons in general...you would need to develop the anime style yourself.
I would suggest if you want to get a job drawing anime, you should probably learn japanese and be very very good.
Also, afaik most drawing work for anime is pure sweatshop work. It may take a long long time before you get to do anything glamorous like story/character design etc.
...but what would i know :)
CYer, Blitz

learn japanese, (or korean) most animation houses (traditional) will pay you in rice to work there if you dispay ablity....

Thanks Guys for your reply, I think i would have to learn the language and then what chance do i have[^] It would be a nice job though, although it probably would be hard, stressful work, long hours.

Thanks for your replies anyway.[8D]
do you know how to put the pic next to your name??
seeya lata.
seems like alot of u are from up Brisbane, im from East Vic lol big climat difference.

Being Bi-lingual would be a distinct advantage. People who speak both an Asian language and English are highly sought after.

My advice is get a sound education in art in traditional media followed by an animation specific course and then develop the anime style from there. Simply drawing manga won't always cut it and you limit yourself as a potential employee.

Thanks mate for your help.
good sound advice from all.[:)]

Guys! i really need your help! i'm from Brisbane and i'm only good at drawing anime and i really want to get a job with drawing it, but there aren't many courses in australia, any advice?

Cheers

Hey Tahliabowden. I know it's probably your dream to only work in one distinct style of cartooning, (anime), but you will find over the course of a career you will most likely need, (and eventually want), to be able to branch out into other styles of illustration as well. Obviously anime is very appealing to young artists as it is quite an easy style to mimic, but having a thorough and well rounded drawing ability will enable you to not only diversify if needed but also to develop a slightly original take on an anime style of your own. There are great tafe courses in Brisbane that focus on animation in general, but often have a large proportion of anime fans as students. There is also the College of Art at South Bank for more advanced character animation training.

anime sucks. Deal with it.

I love drawing. but anime is my favourite style. i find it'd be better for you to branch out, im still in school so im working on stylesnow. the more knowledge u gain the more u will have a better chance. does anyone know whatjobs i can use my drawing skills??

everything is better as anime, thats what i think. When I see cartoons that arent anime, I'm like what the hell is this stuff?

I'm doing plain IT majoring in Software Dev at QUT, in my second year. and I'm going to apply for it, pure programming just isn't for me. If you want to do game programming, I'd suggest just doing a straight IT degree, but if you are after a mixture of multimedia and programming like me, you should enjoy it!

I've been told that there is a ground swelling in the interest of game development at Universities/colleges in Perth by someone in the field of 3D, but that was over 6 months ago.. Anyone with a clue, please fill us in [:)]

i got word of a course in perth.
but im not too sure on where they got there facts from..
or on how useful the course will be.
read for yourself..
http://www.it.murdoch.edu.au/teaching/gamestech.html

Thanks for that link.. I've placed it in the Sumea big list of [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=652"]places to learn game stuff at[/url].

Thankyou Lava_Monkey. I have check out the site and it is running. The first year is mainly programming and the second and third year is more into game development, but hey who is complaining it is a start for perth. Hopefully other UNI's,Tafe's follow in there footsteps and realize perth counts to and there are people interested here too:)