General Chat

welcome to the site :D

Welcome Caldwell [:)]

Welcome, hope you stay and enjoy.

Welcome Caldwell. I look forward to seeing some of your work [:)]

Hey, welcome aboard. It's about time you made it here. [;)]

Yeh, this place has a fair share of current and graduated AIE, Qantm, other media students, along with local game devs and game dev industry hopefuls..

Yeah I saw that on slashdot this morning. I expect Bethesda will do an excellent job of it.

Just had to post this

[url]http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-07-02&res=l[/url]

Oh no, they'll ruin it, all the top humour and dirt and grit will be gone, replaced with boring, drudgery 'quests'.

Morrowind was / is one of the best rpg's ever.

'Nuff said.

Word.
Morrowind kicks major ass

Morrowind was fun but it was buggy as hell.
"Oh no Im stuck in a flag.... again."

if i spend as much time playing fallout 3 as i did playing morrowind, then i will be a very happy vault dweller [;)]

Pants: Nothing a 'fixme' console command couldnt fix [;)] but have to agree, once I figured out how to switch to wireframe and view the world in its wirey goodness, it was apparent that so many thing were overlooked.

Cliff racers flying around on the inside of the terrain mesh objects WTF !?? Rats trapped inside walls the list goes on and on.

Can't agree with any of you sorry, I played Morrowind, lied to myself that I was enjoying spending endless hours walking around dull and lifeless landscapes killing REALLY annoying pterodactyls, and for what? So I can get my character up another level? Big whoop, the story was a shambles, the fighting way too simple, and when I finished I just didn't care at all. I can't recall one interesting character in that game, one interesting battle, or one interesting anything.

I fear the same will happen to Fallout 3.

It appears Gabe and Tycho have caught wind of this:
[url]http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-07-14[/url]

When I went to the AIE, I went there full time (20 hours), and I worked part time (24 hours a week). We didn't really have the option of doing part time studying, so work had to be modified to suit my schooling needs. If I would have been at Uni, I still would have just gone to work part time. I would rather put as much time into a course to get that out of the road asap. Plus it was nice to use the job as a break from school as opposed to the other way around.

If you really enjoy your job though, then you may want to cull uni hours in favour of the job.

Depends on which you find more important.

A few questions to ask yourself:

Am I in a financial position to quit work?
Do I like the work?
Will the work lead me to better places than the course?
Can I do part time study?
Does my workplace have flexible hours so I can do both?

Finally I'd ask myself, were do I want to be in the next few years and which will get me to my goals the quickest and with the most useful skills?

Not really a question others can answer unfortunately, you just have to weigh up the pros and cons of each and go with your gut in the end.

Hope that helps, probably not. [:P]
Good luck.

I have just finished a very intensive year long (no holidays) course.

I sent myself back to school to enhance my existing knowledge. I also run my own audio consultancy and have sometimes 4-5 projects per month on top of school work AND a baby since January.

It was tough to balance it all, but I did it, and glad I did!

To my credit I completed projects on time and in budget and also still maintained a %90 grade average.

So as Malus says it really depends on you and what you think you can do.

Cool... I'm glad most people thought that sticking at it was the best thing...
which is what I'm gonna do.. I guess like most people this kinda decision can make that sore tired brain of ours think!

cheers guys

I work fulltime as a graphics programmer, and study part-time at uni.

When I went back to study I thought it was going to be really hard balancing the two. It's not easy, but if you enjoy your work and you enjoy your study then its not so bad. Like groovyone, the larger workload hasn't hindered my performance at work or uni.

The only real problem balancing work and uni is timetabling. Most unis don't offer many courses outside office hours and most employers aren't willing to let you leave for several hours in the middle of the day to attend a lecture. More unis are beginning to offer courses externally/online which makes things a lot easier.

Oh yeah, forgot my main point:

If you consider professional experience more beneficial, then work full-time, and make uni your secondary priority. However, if you want to get uni over and done with (part-time study can take a while...), then concentrate on uni and reduce your hours at work.

You need to decide which is more important to your future/career.

64 MB PC100 (:() i'm very sad for you, i would say it is really time for a serioud upgrade. I can't help you with the ram thingy though mate. Please Upgrade, you'll be a whole lot happier.

Yeah, my Brother is Building his Computer.

64 MB? Ouch! I've got 512 MB and that's hardly enough, so I don't know how you could get by with only 64.

Well, good luck trying to get some one to give you free RAM :)

pc 100 is pretty damn cheap if you can find it, try a computer fair - you should be able to pick up a 256 stick or 2 for around $25 maybe less.

Be sure you get it in an Anti-static bag tho [;)]

But damn - 64 mb [:O]

I have 1Gb of Ram...and THAT'S not enough! :)

But I agree on the trade fair thing or swap meet. There's some very good deals there if you need it. And if you work them well you can work the guys down to pretty much giving it away :)

But yeah, finding some might be a trick...

Normal mapping is definately in demand at the moment, and to me - once you get down to the nitty gritty of creating the normal maps, theres nothing really all that different from building and texturing a bog standard model. It does take a wee bit longer, but as would any other additional process on-top of the usual Model + Unwrap + Diffuse etc.

Normal mapping isn't terribly difficult to work with, and now there are many different avenues one can take when creating such content (using a high and low res model, generating a texture from a model, "hand painting" details etc).

I think the problem is tied with the other thread concerning photorealistic rendering: the textures have to look more and more realistic (ignoring items such as lighting models etc, as they're not really "content").

I was thinking about this the other day, after watching numerous E3 videos, and comparing them to one another. What are some of the things that make some of the upcoming games (Doom3, HL2, Unreal3 etc) look so good? Okay, we've got much higher poly counts, so the meshes can look a lot more like they should. Lighting models are far more advanced, too. But one of the things that struck me most (and only occured when looking at the videos from lower-end companies) was the lack of repitition. A 512x512 texture thrown on a huge quad looks very poor. Sure, this effect is reduced by making the scene dark and throwing in a couple of lights, but I was really awe-struck by the "apartment" scene in the latest E3 HL2 video, which was quite devoid of the all-too-familiar texture tiling.

What am I getting at? Content creation doesn't just require quality, but it also requires quantity (in a good sense). Game worlds are getting larger and larger, but if they all look the same, they tend to lose their appeal. So not only do we need great looking textures, we need lots of them (which leads us into storage and requirements issues, but that's another problem all together). We can use techniques such as multitexturing to get around this problem somewhat (ie. throw a high-res tiled texture on a wall, then randomly place "details" over the wall to change its look etc).

Then there's the issue of creating photorealistic textures (or at least, close to). Sure, we've got a nice host of image-capturing tools these days, but when you're doing techniques like normal mapping etc, it's difficult to capture a texture that is completely devoid of lighting and shading detail.

And last, but by all means not least, is the issue of visual content apparently substituting gameplay content. It's already happening, and with a greater focus on almost-photorealistic graphics, it's all-too-easy for companies to lose sight of the gameplay.

I'm not sure what this rant was getting at, so feel free to pick as many holes in it that you want :)

Just a geeral rant in relation to this sort of stuff...

I agree in that content will be more a case of more time and resources to create things that are up to speed with the power that computers/cponsoles have. a 400 Poly with one diffuse map takes a HELL of a lot less time than a high poly model normal mapped onto a low poly model with several layers of mapping detail such as bump, transperancy, specularity etc...

If you find someone who is a pro at ALL that...then you'll be doing pretty well. Although there will always be a push for those skills in the one person.

The thing is, to do all that takes time. And time is not cheap. So production for any game is going to go through the roof, just to create content, let alone make it GOOD content AND gameplay.

Which comes to my second point. Power does not, and never will, replace good gameplay. The point in regards to repetition is a good one, a repetitive map gets very boring and unsatisfying very quickly, but I find personally the little touches really make a game. Good texturing indeed makes a good game, but all the little tie ins, and side bits that mean very little to the overall game but flesh out the game universe make a WHOLE lot of difference. Even on a subconscious level.

But then again, you need a solid game base to add the extra bits TO...so it's an increasingly tricky thing to succeed in creating good gameplay...especially ORIGINAL good gameplay.

I'm all for refining what we have created...putting the latest tech to some of the oldest games could work quite well in a lot of cases but I still think there needs to be more creativity rather than remakes with the power we have at hand. So a sort of 50-50 distribution of remakes to improve what exists (remakes, sequels) and the other half people trying to produce as original content as possible.

But back to the point, yes...the games industry IS going to be one insane business soon. But it seems there is a lot of people out there wanting to be IN that business...if the industry can afford them all is a different question :)

I have gatherred there is a growing use of contracting for smaller developers so that people are only employed when they are needed. This may be one way to go for Australian content creators with a growing Freelance content creation industry seeing as the smaller companies need to grow at their own pace in order to make a break into the 'big time'...but we will see.

If developers can hand out their work in partitions, that content MAY be more solid in it's quality as there will be more specialised skills towards that partition. eg. dedicated character animation groups etc.

I'll err...shutup now :)

that is a good point discmage>> i think you are right... there will be a lot more freelance content creation happening.......( if can be afforded ) ........ i have never been employed with a studio thus far.. but am definately coming up to scratch with my skills i feel,,, allready i toy with the idea of working from home as content creator... liasing with a senior designer from some studio perhaps and working my butt off finishing a series of trees eg for a forest scene.... and never stepping foot inside a studio.......
i think the work will have to be sourced from alot of different places to bring together high end visual content for new games..... interesting anyways.

i wonder if this high demand on art content may mean that artist could actually license their ready made content out to several companies??

does anyone know if this is allready happening?? it makes sense to me.

this sort of thing may be needed to allow companies to focus more on the playability of thier product.... and not focusing 6 years on pumping out semi-cinematic visuals for a game that has all the game play inovation of lawnbowls....

While reading this discussion two thoughts had popped into my head, the first was:

We should try and get away from using texture maps on object - by texture maps I mean for colour, since from teh start they were made to simulate the details of a 3d object by using colour. But now we have normal, bump, displacement etc maps that we can use to create details, so we don't need the colour ones now. Plus with all the lighting it might even be beneficial to remove them. So therefore objects/polygons will be singly coloured, then bumped, displaced, and lit and then they'll look good. However I don't really see this working for static geometry, only really for characters / objects.

The other thought that I had running through my head was using all procedual texturing for static objects, since these are things like walls, floor, ceiling etc, it would be better to generate the texture procedually than having to blend several textures to create a similar effect. Plus with procedual textures there shouldn't be any repetition, and as a bonus you should be able to "carve" / damage the static objects and the texture could be easily recomputed.

I mean if we implement these thoughts then the artists wouild be required for creating a "script" (with interactive graphical tools) for the level, and then only be required to build the complex textures for models - barring the colour texture. How does that sound then?

As much as procedural textures would be good on the look and randomness of things..I wouldn't expect designers to script them. I know very few...actually no, true artists wha want to code as well. So you'd be placing a design/visual thing in the hands of a coder...which is fine, as those two go hand in hand nowadays (look at the year of coding involved for the whale's interior mouth scene in Pixar)...but still, it's a thought.

But why haven't they implemented it befreo? It's not THAT intensive on CPU/GPU is it?

The other point in reducing the amount of texture work down to what it actually is...sounds good, but the methods used now and for the next gen (after perhaps might suit what you have in mind) do revolve around a mixture of texturing and such.

The thing is Normal, bump, and diffuse are all texturing skills anyway. Even if you take the need to add your own highlights to the diffuse map as such, you still need to make the bump map to make the light effect it properly...and the same with normal map, as in essence that's just an extension of a bump map (just a damn cool extension :) )

And then you have the very base colour of the texture...and that in itself takes time to look good, to add all your cloth etc.

One method that DOES come to mind however, would be a way to make the light effect materials/objects in certain ways. Much like setting radiosity amounts in 3ds MAX. But in essence you'd be making a specularity map (or equivalent) so it all really comes down to texturing anyway.

Unless, of course, I read you wrong :)

Persoanlly I don't see any other method that is CPU/GPU friendly that gives designers as much creative freedom as they have it now. For me, Unreal Engine 3.0 pretty much has it all...I personally can't see a much better way to do it. without restricting creativity.

normal maps are great but i dont think you need to go to the extreme lengths that those big companies do. sometimes normal mapping can look kinda crappy too, they always seem to have really thick blacks and over glossy highlights, such that in some scenes i just find it awful to look at.

the worst part i guess is how it is likely to blow out production times. yeah normal mapping everything might look great, but do i want it to look great in five years time or do i just want to play it now??

It doesnt take all that long to create a normal mapped character, I'm quite sure alot of people dont realise whats involved.

Creating the normal map isnt time consuming at all, its generated by one of several programs and methods with the input of a high and low poly model, and in some cases you can extract the normal map data from ONLY a diffuse texture.

To give some idea on time using zbrush2.0 + maya our high poly artist can produce a quality high poly model for normal mapping purposes in just a few days. Sure spreading that out for 100+ characters in a half-life 2 type game would add up, but the point im trying to make is its not JUST normal mapping that takes so long, theres numerous other texture layers that take just as long again.

Its a funny thing, the engines and cores behind alot of these games are always produced first, the art, quite frequently comes last, and a fuss about a game taking so long to come out is created and generally aimed at artists, producing art for the engines that are capable of handling massive amounts of data.

Multiple 2048 x 2048 textures on a single player character ? Good god! a single 2048 x 2048 texture is enough to texture 64 characters on the average ps2 game!

LiveWire - a normal map thats black and and contains over glossy highlights is a pretty poor combination of normal + specular mapping, probably the result of time vs quality.

The old 2 out of 3 - COST / QUALITY / TIME - mr money bags can only ever have 2 of those 3, Low cost , High quality, and super quick turnaround, will never happen.

Neverwinter Nights a 4 1/2 year dev time, came out tops. Blew the budget, but everyone got a fantastic game. Lionhead / Big Blue Box with fable 5 years dev time, I can only hope it does the same. Most console / pc games that arent sequels or follow-ons from previous titles that are produced in less than 18 months end up in the bargain bin upon release.

Is there anything to learn from these kinds of experiences ?

Its a tricky art to balance time available vs cash available vs quality. The game designers out there should know this, game design documents are always being changed & modified, almost right throughout the development process, a meeting is had, someone suggests a cool idea and BAM a possible month is added to the dev time to cram it in.

I say hooray for 8 year development times, maybe the $$$ people are finally realising how much time a good project takes and costs. On the flip side, i say a double-BOOOOO! for a project that requires 8 years and ends up pure crap.

/end rant

Discmage: I said that the artists would have tools to help them make the procedually scripted textures, sort of like what ATI's RenderMonkey does to some degree, but taken further... So the artists would be using sliders, buttons, values etc to compose the texture, and then be able to view many large sections of it etc.

And as a solid rule for game programmers - (I think Laura Fryer mentioned something like this) - make good tools for your artists and designers and then the games will flow. So basically it is the programmers duty to create a good canvas and brush and let the artist roam free with it.

hear hear!
or here here ........ whichever 'hear' it is

[quote="HazarD"]LiveWire - a normal map thats black and and contains over glossy highlights is a pretty poor combination of normal + specular mapping, probably the result of time vs quality[/quote]

i agree, i've seen some realy nice ones too. funnily enough those some of the ones i dont like have been in Doom 3 and the UE3 demo!

i would have thought it would blow out production by a long way, seeing as if you wanted to normal map everything you would basically have to do every model twice.

Livewire : Have to agree there, doom3 + unreal3 have nice looking textures, but i urge people to check out Chronicles of Riddick, for some SUPERB textures + lighting. Possibly the best in my oppinion, and probably for some time to come i believe. Doom3 and Unreal just dont exist yet and therefor dont count [:P]

Theres a few different ways of normal mapping, a few of the programs like nvidias Melody, offer a multi-res type scenario using various stripping techniques to produce a low res version based on your detailed high poly model, ( which I might add dont come out too badly at all ) so all you need to do is basically tweak away, rather than build a low + high poly. Still traditionally, if you want a nice clean mesh that deforms well + a nice crisp normal map - youll need an artist working on the highs [:P]

There's quite a few different methods of building normal maps out at the moment. There are the high/low poly sort, which build a normal and displacement map (e.g. SOCLAB's ORB). There are a similar sort, except they take a displacement map as well as the two models, and produce a normal map (e.g. ATI's NormalMapper). There is one which takes a (basic) 3D model, and generates a diffuse and normal map (it's intended for generating wall textures. Called WallBump).

I'm sure there are (or at least, will be) tools for aiding the "hand-painting" of normal maps (by means of editing a displacement map, etc).

Kinda straying off topic now...

Good luck with it.

Good luck Inglis! If you don't mind me asking, did you get a job with a game company in the US?

Finally. You have been talking about waiting on the visa for a while. Good luck with it and then the job :)

Good luck Inglis [:)]

You'd better buy yourself a gun for self defence :)

Buy a gun for the tilt train? lol

Actually if you mean the US then its not really that bad, in fact more violent crime per capita happen in Australia than the States.

Good luck Inglis, some of the guys/gals here have gone through that visa drama, not fun.

thanks guys,

I GOT IT!!!

I just got back from the consulate and am using my cuz's comp here in sydney.

new york here i come.

going to party hard now :)

jason: tv, not games.

congrats on getting your visa, your one step closer :)

Any chance of you still sending those cds? [:(]

yeah, and dont abandon us!

Congrats man :)

quote:Originally posted by Souri

Any chance of you still sending those cds? [:(]

yeah, sorry. i keep forgetting.
ill send them this week.

Im leaving Sunday 25th.

Ill still be on the boards. I just ordered a laptop off the Dell USA website, and got it sent to where Ill be working. So ill still be online etc over there.

Got this one:
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/featured_noteboo…

I ordered it quickly because of the deals going until tomorrow. (10% off, 512ram free, free delivery, free wireless internal network card)

looks like a great buy you got there, though ill never know how lap-top users get by with so little HD space... (ive got a total of like 200 gig-ish).

So, have you got a job yet, or are you going over there to look for one, if you havve got one what's the name of the company?

I've got the same question as Souri, can you send me those CDs (Different CDs)? Im happy to pay for the postage if you want [:)]

Otherwise, congrats! Have fun at the BBC and make sure to give us updates on what you are working on [:)].

its midnight- i fly out in the morning.
next post on here will be from NY. ciao all.

tbag - ive organised for someone to send the cds to you on monday. if not monday, tuesday. but they will get to you.
souri- you should have received those cds by now.

edit* cool. 800 posts....[:p]

*sniff* goodbye from AUS :P and good luck!

Checked last night, and nothing there.. Hopefully will be here on Monday.

Thank you for everything inglis, i hope i can get you something in return one day.

Goodbye and have fun!

well im here. im in at work. its almost 5 in the afternoon. and im going to die soon from jetlag.

here are some things ive learnt in the last 24hours...
1) NY is f**king huge. no matter how many photos you see of it, looking out a plane window and seeing manhattan, it is amazing.
2) dont trust anyone that comes up to in the street and wants to 'help you out' or 'hook you up'.
3) $1100/month US doesnt get you much space in West Village.
4) you cant understand spanish women behind bullet proof glass.
5) americans are SUV crazy. i mean CRAZY....
6) you cant sleep when you are in a plane with 60 US 11-13 year olds returning home around you.
7) they like australians, and so far have only heard 2 croc hunter jokes.

take it easy.

It's cool that you are having fun over there. Maybe you just need to wear a pair of stubbies to get dome more croc hunter jokes ;)

man it sounds like a real interesting experience, ive only ever even been overseas once.

That's why I have been holding off as well. Took longer than I thought it would have.

Thanks for the link Souri :)

I was wondering when something would surpass the 9-disc Aliens Box Set.

Looks pretty good! (Will probably cost an arm and a leg, though)

What about the LOTR box set [:O] the whole trilogy together would be 12 DVD's !

Well the LOTR Limited Extended editions come with 5 discs per movie, so that 15 DVD's, but that's nothing, if you really want to go nuts, try the Star Trek box sets: 6 disc's per season, 7 seasons each, and 3 shows (Next Gen, DS9 and Voyager) for a grand total of 126 disc's!! And at only $190 per season, you could have all the Star Trek episodes for a touch under $4000! Paramount will live long and prosper...[8]

But with the matrix box set, I just hope it comes in a cool case that doesn't fall apart like my Alien ?quadrilogy? did.[:(!]

Star Wars 4,5,6 is coming out soon on a box set DVD. woooooo

Makk: You mean the original star wars trilogy...

I have friends that deny the existance of the so called "Star Wars Episode 1 & 2"...

cool well like you Souri I've been salivating at the thought of that box set, now just come on lord of the rings uber set!! [:P]

Return of the King Extended Edition is the real LOTR box set to hang out for, late this year. There?s going to be so many cool scenes put back into the movie ? like Saruman?s death! Plus the huge amount of doco?s and behind the scenes stuff.

The LOTR super set coming out is just going to be the theatrical editions bundled together ? probably with a few extra documentaries. Not much point if you already have the extended editions.

Hey Daemin, how can anyone possibly deny the existence of Star Wars Episodes 1 and 2? They obviously exsist.

Hmmm, maybe because they're so amazingly awful.

saruman's death?

and SW ep. 2 was good in my oppinion!

Palantir/LiveWire: Hey remember its cool to bag Star Wars, leave the cool people alone.

Liking something just because you enjoyed it is so 1980's man, you need to be able to disect its social and political commentary, don't you know anything? lol [:P]

quote:saruman's death?

Yeah man, they filmed a big finale to the Gandalf/Saurman character arc (as they should have), but had to cut it for time constraints. Christopher Lee was really pissed off about being cut out of the final movie, since Saruman is like the main bad guy ? being the hand of Sauron. But most people seemed to not have noticed this massive problem with the theatrical edition [:P]. It?s still a big mystery as to how he will die, since it obviously isn?t at the end (scouring of the shire was left out) like it is in the book. I?m hoping Wormtounge will stab him [:D].

There will also be the house of healing scene, finishing Faramir and Aowyn?s character arcs, which is kinda important too.

The extended edition should have about 50 minutes of extra footage (making for a movie that runs just under 5 hours!). I can?t wait!

PS ? LOTR kicks arse over Star Wars and Matrix!!! ? It had great effects/action AND a story![:P]

Here here! LOTR ! WOoooOoo I remember reading the story when i was about 13, (oh how long ago that was) and saying " I can't wait untill they make a movie of this! "

So when I first found out about LOTR, it jerked a wee tear. It will always be my #1 Fav film(s) of all time. ROLL ON EXTENDED EDITION OF ROTK!

Yeah, Episode 2 was good.
Episode 1 had sooo much hype and expectations it was impossible to live up to. Though still, Ep1 wasnt the best.
I never knew anything about LOTR (including the hype/preview for the movie) until I saw the movie, boy did I leave the cinema a wee bit shocked!! :D

I think most movies have trouble living up to hype, that?s probably why lots of people thought the Matrix sequels sucked. That and the poor story telling, and the lame philosophy 101 stuff they packed on so thick. Plus the whole bullet-time thing is a bit pass? now. But the action and effects carried it, anyway.

You know, I think the original Star Wars trilogy is over-rated. It was pretty good in the 80?s when I was a kid, but I find them pretty boring these days. And the digital upgrade they did just made them worse. [:P]

So now that I?m bagging Star Wars, am I KeWL? [:D]

Well I hate it when they do things like this...revamped or recompiled versions of Shrek...matrix Box sets, and all the rest.

As much as I am happy that I bought all matrix things so far...as I have watched them many times and in my personal opinion actually get BETTER with each time I watch the three...it's annoying to find yet another rendition coming out that I will want...and that will no doubt cost a packet. The main thin I would be after is the Reloaded with the Enter the Matrix cuts...I could never bring myself to play the game through.. So it all depends I guess...I MAY get suckered in to buying it...see if I can flog of what I have to someone who isn't as obsessed as me :)

In regards to LOTR, I just finished watching the extended edition extras on the Fellowship...AMAZING stuff. You can't help but be blown away at the effort involved in that trilogy. personally I didn't like the book at all, dragged on forever in my mind although I liked the idea of how thorough Tolkien was in making his worl come to life. But the movies...wow.

And Star Wars...well, lets just say it LOOKED good. But I think the WHOLE thing fell down due to the script/story aimed at the wrong audience...or just plain aimed wrong...period. If the script/story was better then maybe the effects wouldn't feel so wasted against the rsult. Cos you can't say it didn't LOOK good :)

Supposedly the third one is going to be more based at where the first two should have been...the original fans, rather than new ones. HOPEFULLY this will mean it will go back to it's roots. Then again they have a LOT to make up :)

But as for an effects movie...I still enjoy watching them.

But how far off topic are we now?! :) hehe

quote:Yeah man, they filmed a big finale to the Gandalf/Saurman character arc (as they should have), but had to cut it for time constraints. Christopher Lee was really pissed off about being cut out of the final movie, since Saruman is like the main bad guy ? being the hand of Sauron. But most people seemed to not have noticed this massive problem with the theatrical edition . It?s still a big mystery as to how he will die, since it obviously isn?t at the end (scouring of the shire was left out) like it is in the book. I?m hoping Wormtounge will stab him .

yeah, that's what i meant, he dies in the shire, not there, so i was wondering if you might have made a mistake saying that. i havnt heard that he dies there.

i liked SW ep2, ep 1 was rubbish though, so i'm happy to bag that one.

I was the first to bag them so I guess that makes me the KeWlest and the L33t35+! Wh00+!11

Bah, George Lucas can't write a story to save his second chin, the character of Anakin Skywalker could have been wonderfully developed by a decent writer, say Joss Whedon, instead we have the comic book shmaltz of Lucas. His ego needs a bashing!

To me the second movie played out like nothing more than a trashy video game.

quote:Originally posted by Wizenedoldman

Bah, George Lucas can't write a story to save his second chin, the character of Anakin Skywalker could have been wonderfully developed by a decent writer, say Joss Whedon

Darth Vader - The jedi vampire with a soul!!

Okay, first I?ll apologise is advance for this long and extremely off-topic post, but I have Middle Earth running through my veins or something. Seriously, I need help!

***Also, just a SPOILER alert: This post contains info about what will definitely be in the ROTK:EE. If you want to be surprised by the extra material, don?t read! ***

quote:yeah, that's what i meant, he dies in the shire, not there, so i was wondering if you might have made a mistake saying that. i havnt heard that he dies there.

Nope, no mistake, he definitely dies there. Saruman?s death was originally going to open the movie, but they went with the Sm?agol intro, and then decided to cut Lee out altogether. [:(!]

Because Scouring of the Shire isn?t in the movie (which is where Saruman is killed in the book), they had to rethink his death. The scene at Isengard at the start of ROTK, was originally much longer. Basiclly, after the hero?s return and Treebeard say?s he?s guarding the wizard, it goes into the Gandalf/Saruman confrontation, which will somehow result in Saruman?s death. It will also include Wormtongue throwing the Palantiri at the heroes (like in the book), which Pipen then picks up, like we saw in the theatrical edition.

And another important addition is the scene where Pipen looks into the Palantiri ? they acknowledge that Aragorn also touched it, which is important for later when he looks into the Palantiri to challenge Sauron.

This will most likely involve a slight reworking of the ending of the movie, because the great eye will already know they are coming. When the heroes go to the black gate, instead of a massive army approaching, we first get the scene with the Mouth of Saroun, very important as he convinces the heroes that Frodo is dead and Sauron has the ring, therefore the final fight at the end, ?For Frodo?, isn?t to give Frodo a chance like in the theatrical edition, but to avenge his death and die with honour. Basically they now fight certain they will die ? much more true to Tolkiens ending.

//end ugly display of LOTR geekdom [^]

I've been holding out on buying any LOTR dvd's as well (trust me, it's hard!). Can't wait for the 'whole lotta crap final edition in the boxset' release so I can watch it on a Friday night and come out the following Sunday, rubbing my eyes, and thinking I am a hobbit...

i was soo disappointed when they cut that sceen. but then i figured the extended editions have always been better in my oppinion (cos i'm a bit of a LOTR geek too, though i dont dress up in stupid costumes [^]) so i cant wait for this one. and not only for that sceen and the mouth of saroun and a few others, but also for where gandalf confronts the witch king, which was seen in the trailers but cut aswell.

i take it palantir you have the extended DVDs? we you sad like me and watched every special feature, look through all the galleries and listened to every audio commentry? i did it for the first two and i know i'll do it for all 5 hours of the third..

now what was this about again? oh yeah, matrix. cool.

Didn't the guy who played Saruman actually boycott the opening cos he was so pissed at getting taken out? That's what I heard...could be quite easily wrong...

And yes...Matrix WAS the original post...maybe we should convert it. to "Good/bad movies that have come out too many times to end up in a super duper Extended compilation collectors edition to get everyone to buy it for the possibly THIRD time boxed set..."

"I release you spirit of the Matrix! be free of the bonds that hold your mind and see how deep the rabbit hole really goes...etc. etc."

LiveWire, yeah the Gandalf/Witch King confrontation will be awesome! I don?t get why they cut it, since they left in the scene where the Witch King says he will break the wizard, but then don?t follow up on the promise! But it will be a cool little battle. It will also help make sense why Gandalf has no stave after the battle for Minus Tirith ? the Witch King breaks his stave.

With each of the first 2 EE DVD?s, I got through all of the material, including the four commentaries within a couple of days. I still like to watch the docos from time to time. The ?play all? feature is great if you have a few hours to burn!

Discmage, Christopher Lee (Saruman) was seriously pissed about being left out of ROTK. As well as boycotting the opening, he was very vocal about how Peter Jackson and in particular Newline cinema screwed him. The going story is that Newline made an executive decision, forcing PJ to cut the Saruman scene out of the theatrical release, because they thought it would confuse the audience, and didn?t affect the plot. What a joke. And Lee actually found out his scene was cut, from a Newline press release ? PJ didn?t even bother telling him before hand!

And no, I don?t dress up in stupid costumes either [:D]. I only wear cool ones! Today I wore to work my full Gondorian armoured suit. I got a few weird looks, but it wasn?t as bad as when I went in my Uruk Hai costume. I don?t know why people don?t talk to me at work?

quote:The ?play all? feature is great if you have a few hours to burn!

if only i hade a few hours to burn...

quote:And no, I don?t dress up in stupid costumes either . I only wear cool ones! Today I wore to work my full Gondorian armoured suit. I got a few weird looks, but it wasn?t as bad as when I went in my Uruk Hai costume. I don?t know why people don?t talk to me at work?

lol, awsome

good luck.
hope you get everything you want from it.

yay! have fun with your course :)

I have lightwave :), i never got the hang of it, is it a short course or an actual degree.

good luck! [:D]

Good luck with it, I hope you do well.

Have fun :D

Heh ? If this isn?t a good topic for a flame war, then I don?t know what is!

////////// -------- Brisbane -------- \\\\

P.S. Spell-checkers are quick and easy to use [;)]

////////// -------- MELBOURNE -------- \\\\

Melbourne and Brisbane are the two cities with the highest concentration of game development companies in Australia.

But Melbourne is the first, check the developers page. This is just a guess as well, but i think melbourne also has a higher population than Perth, which would probably mean more people trying to get into the Games Industry. Your chances would increase but i don't know if it would be a significant margin.

EDIT: we also have customized schools pumping out more students and a lot more courses as well eg:
AIE
CGC (computer graphics college)
Monash
Swinburne
RMIT

Yeah and Melbourne is more expensive to live, but driving in Brisbane sux, but Melbourne weather sucks, (ie. cold to hot in 20 minutes), but Brisbane doesn't have as much culture, but Melbourne is AGES away from the Gold Coast hehehehe.

//////////////------------- GOLD COAST ------------\\\\\\\
If everyone moves to the Gold Coast we can make a game development version of silicon valley.

Stu

To further Stu'scomments, Skribble, you dont need to drive in Brisbane, if you do your insane, Its impossible. You dont need culture, you need a games industry job. You need nice warm weather and the best possible surroundings to help ease the stress on those, HEAVY days [;)]
Basically Brisbane and Melbourne would be neck and neck for me, the only thing that pushes me either way is I like it to be 22 degrees in winter time, not 2 degrees.

Soooo If you like being warm in winter..

//////////////------------- BRISBANE ------------\\\\\\\
If not.......

//////////////------------- MELBOURNE ------------\\\\\\\\

Bah! Driving in Brisbane is a breeze - I've been delivering pizzas here for years, and not a problem. It's certainly easier then the driving in the Gold Coast (bring on the bypass!).

And what's this about more culture in the Goldie then in Brisbane? What, tacky clubs, drugged up surfers and high-rise buildings is more cultural then a thriving live music scene, diverse personalities and 200 year old heritage buildings? I don't think so! Besides, it takes an hour to drive to the Goldie from Brisbane, but driving through Surfers' takes about an hour on it's own!!

Also, Brisbane has great weather (compared to down south), it?s a short drive to surfing beaches, mountains and various fishing locations, a brilliant nightlife and music scene, several high quality educational institutions and of course an ever growing games industry.

//////////////------------- GooooooooOOOO Brisbane! ------------\\\\\\\

Of course at the end of the day, you have to go where the work is?

Melbourne also got most livebale city in the world :p
so
//////////////------------- GooooooooOOOO MELBOURNE! ------------\\\\\\\\

Brisbane/Gold coast has more international developers (and larger developers).
Most of the developers in melbourne are reasonably small and fairly much all australian owned. Atari melbourne house being the only exception off the top of my head.
Victoria has better government support for game developers afaik, plus the AGDC and IGDC are held in melbourne :)
As far as total population of game developers goes, it might be hard to say. I think melbourne has more development houses, but they aren't as large as their QLD cousins.
CYer, Blitz

yeah guys, cant compete with the most livable city :D
but seriously as far as i can see either appears to be a good choice

but Melbourne is the best choice ;)

Sydney is a bit of an arse for games.

Palantir, I never siad more culture in the Gold Coast, I said more culture in Melbourne. I'm completly aware that the Gold Coast is pretty much devoid of any except beach, surfing, and party culture. But as a 21 year old who loves the beach, surfing, and partying it's great.

Stu

Fair call Stu. Besides, when you consider it's only an hour or so drive between the Goldie and Brissie, it doesn't really matter that much where you live up here. BTW, I think the Tweed coast is the best surfing around, as the crowds at the Gold Coast points have gotten beyond ridiculous. Super-bank or not, I just can't handle the super aggression in the surf when the whole point of surfing is just to relax and have a good time!

So what's Melbourne culture like, anyway?

And just to fuel this silly fire: Queensland is the best choice for future game developers ;)

Meh, you make your own scene ;)
Btw im a melbournite and i hit the waves at places like gunnamatta, i mean you have to drive there but its not like its impossible to surf if u wanna in melb :D

Cool. I?ve seen some pretty epic waves down there in surfing mags and stuff ? I hear the more southerly coast line gets some much larger swells from time to time. The only thing is: how much thick rubber do you need to wear!? It?d be like surfing in ice water wouldn?t it? (Not that the water temp up here is all that high ATM).

One thing I'll give Melbourne: closeness to awesome hiking/rock climbing (so I've heard).

The water temp is fine, (about 22 degrees the other day) it's the wind when you get out that's the problem, it's not strong but it's icy cold. I agree some of the spots are over-crowded especially when the waves pick up, but there's still plenty of spots to go and relax. And South Straddie is only a short paddle away.

Stu

Is Skribble moving down here for the surf or for employment :P

hey employment might be important but whats the point of moving if you cant pick up a few waves where your going :D

palantir, yeah its pretty cold most of the time, but like i would wear a wet-suit up in Qld anyway so its not like it makes a diff.

quote:bullet21 said:
Is Skribble moving down here for the surf or for employment :P

LOL - well West Aus has some pretty epic surf, so it ain?t the surf! Hey, it?s good to know a couple of other Sumeans like a wave every now and then.

This isn?t the most serious discussion around, so I didn?t think it would hurt to chat a bit about surfing. Besides, this is the chat forum after all :P

Next you know someone will start on about how Queensland will kick NSW butts this week in the state of origin! :P

//////////////------------- Canberra ------------\\\\\\\

It is a other option, I study and now work in the game industry, which I have been able to do in the few years I have been here with no real problems (I have been in Canberra for three and a half years and have been working for one and a half of them.) Also another thing to note is that the ACT government is now spending a little more money in the area of digital entertainment. So the industry is only going to get bigger from now on.

But right now the best place to be would be Brisbane or Melbourne, with most of the Australian game industry in these two cities.

o/ Sydney o/

We've got... uhm...

o/ SYDNEY YAYY!!! [8D] o/

Well, I hear Sydney's got good surf too...

when it all comes down to it, it seems that your looking at melb or brissie. So which sort of lifestyle and surroudings appeal more to you basicly decides it........

but hey, melbourne was chosen as the most livable city in the world so that makes things easy for your dosent it ;)
//////////////------------- MELBOURNE ------------\\\\\\\
wooooooo

MoonUnit: Where is the source for that claim, for it was heard on the news that Adelaide was the most libeable city in the World - or was that best to start a business in? Ahh well...

Adelaide has a high murder rate and lots of churches. Co-incedence? I think not. :P
Maybe just the water turns everyone crazy.
CYer, Blitz

Daemin: dunno, just heard it on the news a while back

http://theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/06/1075854028808.html

Here's the evidance, the age is a reliable source :)

Blitz: Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane have higher murder rates than Adelaide :-P

And as for churches, I couldn't care less...

Um..why is everyone fighting to have more people in there city to compete for jobs?! lol [:O]

Brisbane = biggest industry in terms of people employed and international diversity.
A Bachelor of Animation is only available in Brisbane my friend just told me, everything else is just diplomas etc.
Btw driving is easy as pie here, theres hardly any people on our roads! Try Europe if you find it hard, they're nuts. lol.

Melbourne = just plain cool place to live but not as big a scene as BrisVegas. Love Melbourne, if my job wasn't in Brissy I'd be there eating Souvlaki. [:)]

Canberra = Small but talented industry and access to lots of XXX stoof.

Sydney = <> Solid industry and alot of people who won't let you forget they had the olympics, yes guys we know, let it go. [:P] <>

I always find the booth babe thing so funny. It is cool to read what I thought. No guys just actually walk up and start talking to them.

""It's funny that people act this way over little stuffed toys," I say to another of the girls, Jessica, who is standing a few paces away. She smiles and nods in agreement. "I've been handing out buttons, screen-cleaners, and all kinds of things, and there have been people attacking us for free stuff. People will walk up to us and just try to grab it.""

It's good to see that people's priorities are right. Stealing little stuffed toys over hitting on booth babes :p

And for those who need reason why booth babes should be cherished....
http://catsonmars.com/otaku/cosplay/
Do you really want to see more of these people running around? Well? Do you? Thought not.

I find the whole booth babe thing quite funny as well. It's also funny how she says that for most of them that it's the first time touching a girl. The nerds are shaking when they see a girl, i just find it funny.

Meh, sex sells, we see it in the games and we see it in the movies and we see it in the conventions. Its still a bit of a laugh though i spose :P

Need more booth babes - or just girls, for the AGDC :-)

it's got to be embarrassing wearing that stuff though.

A friend of mine who has done booth babe work, was paid $475US per hour, Hell even I would wear what they are wearing for that amount. [:D]

quote:Originally posted by HazarD

A friend of mine who has done booth babe work, was paid $475US per hour, Hell even I would wear what they are wearing for that amount. [:D]

I DEMAND PHOTOGRAPHIC PROOF!!!! Mainly as I just want to see you dressed like a chick :D

holy mother of god...... wow, that really puts my part time wage into perspective

That's why they keep on continuously getting attractive around college age girls doing that work. One or two conferences and they've got at least a quarter of the year accounted for...

That and there's always been babes involves in selling products, IIRC there's scientific proof that people would buy anything from an attractive woman. Especially men.

Aven : [:O] At least if I did post photos of that nature inglis couldnt makem any worse [;)]

She ended up with about 13K US for 3 days work aparently she was pretty upset as she was only getting paid AVERAGE also. This was for a car show in the States a year back, not sure what the pay is like for e3 etc.

quote:
Originally posted by HazarD:
A friend of mine who has done booth babe work, was paid $475US per hour, Hell even I would wear what they are wearing for that amount.

quote:
Originally posted by Aven:
I DEMAND PHOTOGRAPHIC PROOF!!!! Mainly as I just want to see you dressed like a chick :D

So Aven, you'd pay Hazard $475US to dress up like a chick?:P What the? [:X]
[;)]

plaintir: That's $475US an hour.... :-)
So if he stays dressed up as a chick for days at a time in public (doesn't count in private), he could be in for quite a bill..

Man, American gamers must be complete geeks though to be shaking nerdily when they are around women...

*sigh*

I'd pay some of you $475US per hour to NOT be a booth babe [;)]

There was a presentation of [url="http://narics.net/cs.source/showcase.php"]Counterstrike: Source in South Korea[/url], and unbelievably, [url="http://narics.net/cs.source/image/showcase/P1020508.jpg"]some girls came out and did a dance[/url] during some point. The only word that comes to mind is "why" [:)]

Crap. I completely forgot about this thread. If HazarD shaves/waxes his legs, stuffs a bra and at least tries to put on some make-up. Then it maayyyyy be worth the.... nah. You're probably all correct. It would be a waste of money :p

lol i love that, when people just randomly include a bunch of dancing girls for no apparent reason. Happened at a extreme sport show once (cant remember the actual name), and they didnt even tell the compeditors, suddenly the ramps are covered in girls with their pom poms and everyone does a simultaneous "wtf?" :P

quote:Originally posted by Daemin

Need more booth babes - or just girls, for the AGDC :-)

maybe there should be some booth hunks?

that much per hour? and US$ i bet - ok, so as embaresing as it would be, i can totaly understand why they would do it.

[url]www.e3girls.com[/url]

lots of low tops and sprayed on pants - well, i like it :)

then again, i'd pay this one to leave:

[img]http://www.e3girls.com/images/E32004/351IMG_2640.JPG[/img]

She looks like she?s thinking ?$475 an hour, $475 an hour, $475 an hour? hey geek boy, my eyes are up HERE!?

quote: then again, i'd pay this one to leave:

I'd rather the $475 an hour goes to having some actual game developers on the floor pimping their games.

Well that's what the "booth babes" are there to do, I mean in car shows they tend to actually be knowledgeable in the cars that they are displaying. Though it'd be interesting to actually see "booth babes" that are interested in games and can talk about them at length, then they wouldn't really need all those skimpy outfits and all...

Obviously you haven't been to many car shows then Daemin :)

are you saying you would rather them not be in skimpy outfits?

quote:Originally posted by Maitrek

Obviously you haven't been to many car shows then Daemin :)

I was about to say the same thing! :P

As for the E3 Booth Babes... the Bloodrayne chick gets my vote ;)

Maitrek: No, not really, but on TV they always spout that the women presenting cars in car shows actually know something about them... Could be just in America then?

LiveWire: It's a complex issue, plus not every skimpy outfit looks good on every person!

(I would've posted this earlier, except it was lagged or something...)

I went to a gun show in the US. Heaps of babes in bikinis firing heavy weaponry. For me, it didn't click. Booth babes at E3 at least fit in with the theme. *shrugs*

I guess it depends what your take on 'sexy' is.

"The only thing that's stopped Sweeney from producing totally photo-realistic games has been the limitations of computer hardware. "Producing realistic simulations of environments is quite simple," he said "We just need enough brute force computing power. We're not quite there yet." "

I don't think that this is the only thing stopping people. The world over, people are trying to create photo real art that isn't real time. Although the power does come into it, it is also a very (artistically) difficult thing to achieve. People are always getting closer, but it is still a way off :)

I agree with aven as well, hardware is probably the biggest limitation but not the only one. There is a lot of artistic talent is also required, as well as perfect lighting which is probably another major issue. I think lights may have a lot to do with it all.

Just do the Doom 3 engine technique...turn off the lights and pretend it has realistic environments.

quote:Just do the Doom 3 engine technique...turn off the lights and pretend it has realistic environments.

Wait, you mean the universe ISN'T made out of poorly lit small rooms and corridors?

I'd say his prediction is pretty accurate. We can expect a lot more improvements in graphics realism but I wouldn't expect too much in the way of AI/human thought in only half a decade.

I agree with Aven also: When you're trying to create a photo-realistic scene, the realism is only as effective as its weakest point; the slightest hint of artificiality can blow the illusion.

as much sweeny has the odd debatable point id more or less take his word for it. Considering hes kinda been a part of one of the great leaps into the "photo-real" games. Well visually anyway. Like he mentioned about pre-recorded conversations, theres all these other aspects to make up a realistic enviroment which will probably be even harder then the visual aspect.

The doom 3 engine so far is made for a single game, Doom 3. Which is a survival/horror genre and thus has lots of little dark rooms with wierd lighting etc.

lol, I know. Just poking fun at id.

That said though, its no coincidence that virtually every id game to date has consisted of linear, corridor based levels. What came first? The idea to make lots of corridors or the technology to power them?

Not only do you need artists to be able to makes this photo realistic art, but someone to pay for it. Which I think is the bigger issue, and hopeful the money spend on games will start to become around the same as the money put into flim or music.

Drood: Isn't that amount of money already being pumped into some games? Unless you're talking about the huge blockbusters, well I don't think that'll happen anytime soon, games are just not a big enough market yet. Movies are usually world wide, games aren't there yet.

TheBigJ: Well you could say that the first few were because of technological limitation and the linear nature of other 2d games out at the time, like you could say that wolfenstein was just basically mario but instead of moving up/down/left/right you moved forward/back/left/right... Doom was much of the same, and Quake was that just in 3D. Quake 2 had a story somewhat but it was still linear. But then look again at Half Life, now if that wasn't linear then I don't know what is anymore.

I think the whole corridors thing comes up because its the closest analogy in 3d to the platforms in 2d... But that's just a small though I had just now.

I often talk about what it would be like (and how very cool it would be) to have really high rez detailed models in games and stuff with heaps detailed animation but when I thought about it a bit more I realised hand weighting verts for a 200,000 tri model would be painstaking indeed.

but i hope games get more improvement with content than just making a game because it is 'flashy'.

Bah, I say. The next gen cards (RX8??, GFFX6??) are going to be close enough I think. Just make game more fun dammit.

I agree, use what we have now to make the games fun and imaginative. Sure its good to have nice graphics, but its often not always best to try and create visuals that resemble the real world precisely.

I find it an odd position when people say developers should focus more on making a game fun then on graphics. It?s not like anyone thinks, ?lets make a purely graphical game but we won?t worry about anything else?! Of course developers want their games to be fun, but I think it?s a good thing to have great graphics also. And when these photo-realistic games come out, I?m sure all the people who said it won?t be that good will be lining up to play them! :P

That said, I think the area that needs the most improvement is game AI. We really could do a lot more then we are doing now.

damien: Most hollywood/american films well exceed even the most funded of games. 200 million compared to 5 million is a pretty huge difference.

Obviously 200 million isn't the norm but they still have more money pumped into them.

Devils advocate for a second: Film's generally have alot more people working on them and a shorter time frame for completion, oh and those pissy actor types who demand ridiculous salaries. [:P]

Auxinamoon: You don't hand wieght something that large. [:P] You generally have a proxy model driving the animations of the larger one.

in my opinion as good as photo-realistic graphics look, the more photo-realistic they are, the more apparent the faults in the realism are.

still look great but!

Well there was that one article that stated if a human face is very lifelike then people will concentrate on the 5% or so that's different or wrong and not believe it, while if the model of a human is not as realistic then they'll focus on the 85% of things that are correct. I forget the article link though...

I guess my point is that if we strive to make things too realistic then the people will focus on the differences and irregularities. Sort of like in "The Matrix" perhaps.

I remember one time watching TV and they had a bunch of Game Developers on an Australian panel discussion show, and one of them (I think from Ratbag) said that he was looking forward to vastly different interactive environments. Sort of like comparing the end worlds of Half Life to the mundane earth environments.

So perhaps it is better to make totally far out worlds with the graphics power that we have, rather than focus on reality too much.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102086/

Its a purely subjective notion; Some people may feel this way, others won't. It may be difficult for people like us to experience this effect as we've all been playing games for ages and we've been slowly introduced to near-photorealistic characters. I suppose for someone who has previously only watched tv and movies, then moving into games at this time would seem a little strange.

I'm not a big fan of mmorpg's, i don't know why, probably cos i have never played one. But it just doesn't appeal to me, i would rather shoot some in a normally online FPS then walk around socialising in an MMORPG. Also isn't there a subscription fee or something which would also deter people.

MMORPG's arent only about socialising Bullet21, its more a case of finding yourself some veterans and running off in a team completing quests, killing huge beasts with scrawny weapons [:D]

Its basically fable type gameplay, except with mates.

quote:But it just doesn't appeal to me, i would rather shoot some in a normally online FPS then walk around socialising in an MMORPG

That's okay, just so long as you don't play a MMORPG and pretend its an FPS. People who do that should be hunted for sport. If you've played on EverQuest's Rallos Zek server (Pure PvP), you know what I'm talking about.

i didnt know warhammer got the flick, i mean im not the biggest fan of MMORPGs either, but i am a warhammer fan.

Yeah, I was pretty dissapointed about Warhammer Online getting cancelled - it was looking really good.

quote:Originally posted by bullet21

But it just doesn't appeal to me, i would rather shoot some in a normally online FPS then walk around socialising in an MMORPG.

Yeah that socialising is a real drag, don't you wish people would just leave you alone. [:P]

Hehe ? yeah, who would want to interact with real people online when you can just play all by yourself offline! [:P]

BTW, I strongly suggest checking out Guild Wars when it comes out ? great online team play (or PvP) but no ongoing fee. Just buy the game, and play it whenever you want without constant credit card bleeding!

*Curses expensive Everquest subscription*

quote:Originally posted by Souri

It seems like publishers are jumping off the MMORPG bandwagon like there's no tomorrow.

It was only a matter of time, the thing with MMO's is that you have to pay a month fee for any of the good ones so that the game severs can be updated and be maintained (also new content and have evens happen.) Because of this fee there are very few people play more then one MMO and there are only so many people which play them. I think publishers know this and are not going through with less then perfect MMO's.

But with that said, I think that in a few more years MMO's will be the most played type of game, no AI is as fun as playing a human character.

Gordon Walton (Ultima Online, The Sims Online) did a talk at the GDC 2003 titled "[url="http://archive.gamespy.com/gdc2003/top10mmog"]Ten Reasons You Don't Want to Run a Massively Multiplayer Online Game[/url]" which gives some of the reasons why it's hard to even launch a MMORPG title, let alone keep it going.

I do like the idea of MMORPGS (although I've only experienced a web based java MMORPG called [url="http://www.runescape.com"]Runescape[/url]), but I think they really do cater only for a hardcore group of gamers. The kind that will pay $40 a month AND devote a lot of their time to level up. MMORPGs encourage levelling up as a path to new experiences, so the casual gamer won't get the most out of what they shell out for.

From a stat that I read a while ago, it showed that the MMORPG audience isn't growing substantially - each new MMORPG doesn't capture new gamers but takes away the players from other MMORPGs. So instead of companies throwing more MMORGs to the market, I reckon there should be some middle ground to cater casual gamers. Take away the monthly charge - make it $40 a year. Of course, this means a huge cut in revenue, so production costs will be lower than your usual big MMORG title.. Cater the casual gamer - from the idea of Animal Crossing, make the game where you reach a point after an hour or so of play a day where you just have nothing left to do that will level you up. Or make missions that can be accomplished within weeks. Levelling up shouldn't be the main focus of the game if it's aimed for the casual gamer..

Guild Wars is fairly similar to what you are describing there Souri. It is just a series short missions that can be done within an hour. It feels like a really arcadey RPG. More like Diablo than D&D :)

As you said though, leveling up is aimed more at the hardcore gamer.... Damn straight :) That's the best part of an RPG. Having a character that actually grows. My friend has PS2 game (can't remember the name and it isn't online), that has a level cap of 999,999. Standard leveling up deal as well. One level at a time :)

New(ish) game called Disgaea for ps2 with characters that can progress into the 1000's of levels, but not only that you can change professions start again and re level them to above the previous profession level and gain all the skills from both.

Off topic I know, but being a compulsive RPG'er that was enough to sell me the game [:D]

Apparently the whole focus with The Sims online was to try and generate new mmog players, since it?s focus is apparently quite different from the usual online game. I believe it?s doing really well, as it?s one of the only online games to have mass appeal to female gamers as well as the blokes. It?s also a game that doesn?t require extreme dedication to have fun.

Hey HazarD, did you check out the E3 live test of Guild Wars? If you did, I?m just wondering what you thought of it. I wonder what it?s appeal will be to the serious RPG lover, since it?s much more arcadey then most mmorpg?s. I think it could do very well due to the mission-based play, enabling the casual gamer to have fun, but still catering to the power players with the typical rpg bits (like leveling, item collection, guilds, crafts, and all of that kind of thing). Though I doubt it will be very attractive to fans of true role-playing.

Personally what I?d really love to see is an mmorpg that somehow enforces, or at least encourages true role-playing. It?s so annoying when you want to role play with the party your in, and someone says something like ?We will rain death to the foul beasts that dwell over yonder!? to which someone else replies ?Yeah dudes, lets go kick their homie arses :P?. It?s so hard to find role-players these days!! ?Actually for some reason I?m thinking that Middle Earth online might attract true RPGers. Time will tell, if it doesn?t get cancelled also.

quote:Originally posted by Souri

MMORPGs encourage levelling up as a path to new experiences, so the casual gamer won't get the most out of what they shell out for.

I'm not sure if you have been following World of Warcaft, but this was there beef with MMO's and they have gone to a huge effort to fix this and some of there ideas are very good. And because of this I think I may play WoW but it comes down to the cost per month if I will pay for a more then a few months.

love?? level [:I]

Welcome to Sumea.

I think you just need a little more study, the levels you have posted are a little on the uninteresting side, reminds me of some of the levels I made when I was starting out.

There are people here which can help you out and many level design places on the internet.

Also you have only posted pic of the levels, from what I have worked out from my work in the industry is that how a level looks isn't a job for a level designer there job is to make the level fun to play. And I think because of the amount of art in game nowadays developers are starting to have the level designer make the level (block it out) and have artist add detail and make the level look good, this way the level designers and spend all there time making the level fun, which in turn makes are better game.

You are quite right in what you say ? using the uted 3 and unreal tournament 2004
I have learned the game play and try make the surroundings have a point , not just some thing to be arty or be a space filler .

As well as I design and make my levels by my self.. I do not have the pleasure of my work been refined to a desired point?I can only get so far by my self
I tend to design out of my head then run around feeling map then continue mapping
Due to my high level of experience with the eds bsp brush operations im able to make very complex brushes and shape worlds more easier..3ds max helps in many aspects
:P

if put in a healthy team environment my multy skills could reach potential?..

Feel free to to test my skills out , I know what im doing and you be surprised at what I can pull of in uted3 ..having got my red set in ut2003?s ed
any way thanks for your input

haha oops no edit
[img]http://ilikelinux.geek.nz/~rivit/BP1.jpg[/img]

is just shell but is 100% playable ,even as far as dodging of walk way
into doorway on ledge of door way passage hmm..
is were im at now :P

some more pic?s that are not up really ...the cylindrical room is all 1 bsp brush except walkways ,walkway platform, door jams and cut in roof ..so very complex brush work..
[img]http://ilikelinux.geek.nz/~rivit/Shot00004.jpg[/img]
ill be working on this more and hopefully have a level finish soon
that is arty as well as reeks of game play :)

Sorry to take up so many slots but I intend to get some were as I have the potential to be a grate map per [;)][:)]

I just read above post and it may lead to confusion? so
Room and 4 passage ways are 1 brush just... to clarify what I seed in above post

That first pic of the level in your first post reminds of a Doom III screenshot i've seen...

Nice work though, considered joining a mod team?

Yes I have thought about it but in reality I have turned down a few offers as people do not know what they are doing and I have a high expectation of any team im on ..but even I higher expectation of my self and my work

I have my own mod in mind that screen is from the start of level 1
Im just sharpening up my gun modeling skills as im preparing to make a few weapons
So I can carry on mapping?.
I hope in time people will join ad work for free until at the end when it comes time to approach some 1 for a mod license ?

But why im here is a need a job and don?t look forward to getting a dish washing job when I could be doing what im good at .
[:D]

yeah ive read a fair bit about the star wars one, sounds promising. The screenshots that ive seen actually remind me of metroid prime which is a good thing to be sure.

Have you seen the trailer for both the games, if not go frank zappa commands you.

i havent watched the brothers in arms one, but i did watch the star wars one. Its a damn fine lookin game :D . I hope that the squad system isnt to simple so that you cant do some things you might like to. I was playing freedom fighters just yesterday (made by the same people who made the hitman series) and that has the most basic squad system and its only downfall is that sometimes when you assign a single person to a single role, itll pull someone out of a role youve allready assigned to them (when you wanted someone idle to do it... if that makes sense).

oh and bullet, its hard to take anything you say seriously with that avatar ;)

Even harder when you see this picture, Moonunit!

http://www2.warnerbros.com/madmagazine/files/onthestands/ots_439/images…

quote:Another one that i've been waiting for, for a while now is full spectrum warrior

...and my god is it ever good. *sleepy eyed at work*

SB and moony, please don't tease my idol :(, i suggest you all go and watch the brothers in arms trailer. And freedom fighters was kick arse, i luved the control system, it never failed ME. Plus the musci owned

yeah freedom did rule bullet (and the music was composed by jesper kyd, the mans a legend) i was just saying that with such a basic controll system there was only really one flaw. Which is good for games that dont want to have a expansive squad micro-management system.
and we will poke fun at the little doggie all we like :D (ahhh just jokin, each to their own i suppose.... even if your wrong ;) )

Each to there own thats why you play UT ;P

*Put's on flame retardent jacket*

Edit: irrelevant, but i download the making of Sudeki from Gametrailers.com it's cool get it guys.

I've heard of a magazine for games, called game developer magazine, but i can't seem to find it anywhere.

The only magazine i buy is Atomic, it has game reviews, usually has articles about art for games and stuff like bump mapping and cel shading. But i dont think it has web developement. I reckon you should buy it thoug, it's only 6.95 and is always a good read.

Game Dev Magazine when you can find it sells for about $20 an issue.

The easiest way to get the magazine is sign up as a student member of the IGDA. That gets you access to the magazine as well. The cost for membership is around $35 Aust a year.

There's "develop" which is a UK publication, check out [url]www.developmag.com[/url]

theres also another UK mag called "game maker" which is actually more based around mod teams and custom content then proffesional developers. Plus it comes with DVDs full of tools and stuff apparently.

For Game Maker Magazine, that Web Site is http://www.pcplus.co.uk/news/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=18460&s…

and for the 3D World Magazine, the Web Site is http://www.3dworldmag.com/subscribe/

but like I said before, why don't we make a Magazine?

ne 1 seen where 1 could get their hands on the Game Maker Magazine in brisbane?

Please use proper words, it hurts my eyes to look at that.

quote:Originally posted by Souri

Can anyone suggest to me what the *best* free forum out there is for a php/mysql based site?

Many of my friends as well as many decent websites, use this bad boy.

[url]http://www.pnphpbb.com/[/url] I set it up for my bro and it seems to be pretty easy/sweet to use.

I like this one: http://www.phpbb.com/

I have been using it for various forums (admin) for over two years now and it is quite easy to use. As far as I know setup is also very easy.

Thanks for the recommendations. I've set both of them up and they seem pretty cool. I also installed phpnuke (well, phpbb came with phpnuke), and postnuke as well (which fits with pnphpbb). These packages are really easy to install and have plenty of themes, but darnit, they got no personality! I've looked through a lot of phpnuke/postnuke sites and they all feel the same [:)] It's gonna need some heavy modification..

yeah a guy i know whos a web designer is rather anti phpnuke (in the same way a nintendo zealot is anti M$). Its a fair point though, its nice to have something that you actually created.

http://phorum.org/

Real sites don't use phpnuke ;)

I can understand why people are against phpnuke/phpbb websites, but it's pretty tempting to use it and modify it into something that isn't so generic looking. With some time and effort, I could make it into something much different, I reckon [:)]

*shakes the collective coders fist at souri* cheat!!! (jk ;) )

Hello.

Can't help you out with what is in Perth as I have never even been there :)

Good luck with your course, and I hope you enjoy it.

Hi Skribble.
Check out the developers page to see where all the Australian developers are based. [url]http://www.sumea.com.au/sdevelopers.asp[/url]
Are you doing your course through tafe? Sounds fun, I hope you enjoy it and learn heaps. Learning to model and animate in Lightwave should be a blast [:)]

Welocome to sumea Skribble, if you have any questions just post them here, there are plenty of peoples to help. Enjoy your course, and a good choice in deciding to join this industry, tonnes of fun.

g'day skribble, hope you enjoy your stay and dont forget to wipe your feet :)

Hey Scribble, Welcome [:D] As Palantir said, check out the developers page, to find some support in Perth.

And feel free to bombard us with questions, if you want to be a game designer / level designer you have your own section here on the sumea forums to post questions, as do the artists and programmers.

Enjoy [:)]

quote:Originally posted by MoonUnit

g'day skribble, hope you enjoy your stay and dont forget to wipe your feet :)

Thats right, wipe your feet all over MoonUnits face. We've all done it [:o)].

Welcome aboard anyway, have fun and ask anything.

Nice to see new people coming, hope you like the place.

Welcome to Sumea!

and thats about it... [:D]

hey thanx for the welcome pplz,

*wipes feet*

yes i wear these sca... wipe marks with pride :D

Welcome to the site. Here's a dancing banana to celebrate the occasion.

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/simagesmisc/nana.gif[/img]

Damn that thing is evil Souri... your going to scare him away [;)].

Bananaphobia.

oohh, i wanted a dancing apple :(

I wanted a strip tease banana that peels itself [:D]

Bananatease

Edit - you don't want to know...

lol your little forum thread title made me jump a bit to

Lol yeah read the article on gamesindustry.biz a couple nights back, same reaction

To cut a long story short for those who don't know, I got the name Sumea from an old Amiga demo from over 10 years ago. I registered and started developing the site in 2000. Sumea.com at that time was taken by these 3d java applet developers who had 2 demos on show. My impression of the site then was that it was some hobby site to show that Java could do 3d. I mean, I remember visiting the site a year later and there weren't any updates and those 2 demos were still there. [:)] Sumea.com.au goes up for 2 years or so when Sumea.com announces they're doing some stuff with mobile phones, handheld games and whatnot.

So yeh, they did have the Sumea name first, but it didn't look like they were going to do anything with it even when this site was up for over a year or two. [:D]

I saw this one recently. Clever stuff.

"Windows Noises"
[url]http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/noises.php[/url]

That is pretty clever, that version is slightly smaller then the original though. The original can be be found here: http://www.geocities.com/clownstaples/swf/winnoise.html [:p].

www.undeadninja.com

my site, got sum flash stuff ive done, u can waste 20minutes :P

quote:Originally posted by Skribble

www.undeadninja.com

my site, got sum flash stuff ive done, u can waste 20minutes :P

Some of that stuff is stupid and doesnt make sense. None the less i like it, its unique to [:p].

Well now im off for a 4 hour shift [:(], a man can dream of getting paid to look at Flash animations and whatnot... a man can dream. [;)]

http://www.incorect.com/INCORECT/boyshit/boyshit.htm

[url="http://www.djcrikey.com/"]DJ Crikey's Mega Mixer[/url]!

[url="www.liketotallyjihad.com"]Like, totally Jihad[/url] (pretty strange this one)

lol at totally jihad, the dj crikey wasn't that great, but totally jihad was some wierd shit.

http://triadfrog.home.comcast.net/
Break dancing Transformers are always welcome :) Pity you can't save it (damn streaming flash :/)

http://homokaasu.org/rasterbator/
My friend only showed me this one today. I went to try it out, but I ran out of ink :( My friend wants to try a 50x60 inch print up of Beaker :D

That Transformers one was awesome! Wow, they must have spent a very long time putting that together!

Anyway, here's my contribution (End of the world):
[url]http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/end.php[/url]

haha, the transformers one rocked, i so want it on my hard drive.

damn that transformers is awesome :P

since i watched that very first bang one i CANT GET THE SONG OUT OF MY HEAD! *crys*

but ill add my own little jem. :)

[url]http://www.threebrain.com/weeeeee.shtml[/url]

Ok, that clearly wins for the silliest flash movie here [:)]

I recommend EVERYONE game this little flash game. The art is quite nice, and the game is pretty fun too.. it's got ninjas too, what else could you want! http://www.koreus.com/files/200406/themalibu9.html

It has no point, but it's funny.
http://starterupsteve.servepics.com/swf/badger.html

thats weebls creation, all of his stuff can be found at:

www.weebls-stuff.com

personal fave: http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/14/

http://yoga.at.infoseek.co.jp/flash/kikkomaso_e.htm

FIGHT, KIKKOMAN!

lol they made a super-hero out of the little soy sauce packets :P

[url]http://www.wagenschenke.ch/[/url]

Yodel-ay-he-oo!

It's not Flash, but I thought I'd post it.. seems like someone enjoys [url="http://www.funnyheck.com/simpsonshouse.html"]The Simpsons waaaaay too much[/url].

that... is crazy, but strangely cool

Heh. Some people really do love the simpsons way too much, my Dad told me his friend at work had a 6 pack of un-opened Duff beer and was offered $75,000 USD (They must be pretty damn rare) for them, he took the offer and still has a can or two hanging around for collectors sake. If you ask me, thats some mighty fine and mighty expensive beer.

http://www.m-dalgas.dk/flash/swf/konane.swf [Heavy language, Low Violence]

I just found this. I find it quite true and rather funny.

God i hate those people in games who wont accept the fact that you killed them, then accuse you of cheating etc...

*laughs* Ahhh... sif you'd play CS @:-D

ahh weeeeeee

heres some Flash stuff i made ages ago.. there stupid like all good flash things
http://www.blipit.com.au/adrian
http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~pigsnogl/images/abc_08.html

http://www.brokenfunction.com/content/mmvs1/index.html - Megaman vs Metroid
http://www.brokenfunction.com/content/mmvs2/index.html - Megaman vs Ghost'n Goblins

Very cool retro platformer games in flash [:D]

Here is somthing fun. The instruction is in Japanese though.

http://astroboy.jp/c/011/bang/index.html

[url="http://www.camperstrike.co.uk"]CamperStrike[/url]!!

This is pretty much the same deal as the real thing! You no longer need to have Counterstrike installed anymore! [:D]

well camperstrike was good entertainment for a couple of minutes :D

there's a lot of wierd stuff at albinoblacksheep.com. They got this one, of stairwways to heaven played backwards and it says some satanic poem it's really weird and scary

OK, these two applications are INGENIOUS.. I could spend hours at each of them [:D]

http://www.isketch.org/ - Pictionairy, online.. It is so damn fun and hilarious.
http://web.okaygo.co.uk/apps/letters/flashcom/ - Just letters. A flash application where the screen is a bunch of letters that everyone can move around. People try to make words, others steal letters, people grabbing all the letters and shoving it in the corner.. it's total chaos, but it's fun. [:)]

Perisher has the half pipe which gets the mad raves, always used for Xtreme Games. Thredbo's good all round. Hoping to get some boarding done myself these holidays. I can hope, anyway. @:-)

im a double diamond skier (hardest) but ive only ski'd in victoria aus so unless your headed here i cant really help :( if you are the best mountain is Mt Hotham for sure.

Cool thx dudes... yeah I think anywhere that has a park and a half pipe gets my winning ticket!
How long are the runs? I've skied France... and you have runs there that go for 30 or so minutes.. not sure if our homegrown slopes are as epic..
cheeers to ya!

Go snowboarding!

Im going to Thredbo with my school for two days on the 28th of July which should be fun, Thredbo is pretty cool, unfortuneatly my friend and i took the most advanced course and we were only new to the sport/game... it took us two hours to get down, around 20 minutes of that was spent looking for my board which i unclipped and later found wedged up the top of a tree (Yes, you heard me. The top of the tree, i had to climb it to get it).

Anyway, Snow is always fun unless of course something goes wrong [:p].

I get scared on blue level [:(] I've only been skiing once though, but I've never been more scared in my life. You people who ski above blue level are freaks. [:o)]

yeah I eat black runs for breakfast... hehe :) nah not really.. but the scarier the better

quote:Originally posted by Souri

I get scared on blue level [:(] I've only been skiing once though, but I've never been more scared in my life. You people who ski above blue level are freaks. [:o)]

heh heh heh *puts on freak badge*

Now that Im getting my a PS2, I'll be able to pee my pants when I play this game :) wohoo!

Just thought Id add to this (though I feel like a corporate shill) In Brisbane the Myer stock-take sale has 25% off all games PC through to GBA.

Pantmonger

The EB sale was great. Went to the Woden one in Canberra.

I bought Commandos 2 for $20. Diablo 2 for $35. I also got a copy of Grandia 2 for $7!. For those who love Japanese RPGs, give Grandia 2 a go. It was a kick arse Dreamcast game that was also ported to the PS2. Keep in mind that being a port, the sound isn't that great, the graphics are pretty low res, and you really do need a gamepad. Has a very cool story and battle system :)

They also had Warcraft 3 there for about $50. They had the GTA double pack for Xbox on sale. I'm thinking of also getting Simpsons Hit and Run for the Xbox. It wasn't that cheap, but it is still better than nothing.

I'm going to check out the Civic one today.

Also Had NeverWinter Nights Collectors edition for $70 - Comes with 120 page concept art book from bioware called " The Art of Neverwinter Nights " [:O] Also a nice big long sleeved teeshirt, with NWN logo on sleeves etc.

For those of you who havent played it - you can buy Deus Ex for $7 !!! Simply a must have for any gamer.

I picked up Prince of Persia: Sands of time for $35.. Damn fun game too.

i picked up NSYNC Hotline for 75c! bargin! and that was 50% off (says a lot about the quality of it dosnt it?)

ok, it's sad, and i never intend to open it, but I do intend to off load it to some unfortuante soul for their birthday or something... [:)]

oh, and they were advertisingthe GBA SP for $169 or something, saying it's $35 off. i'm sure it was $169 normally wasnt it? i'd get one, but i'd much rather wait 'till this makes it way t oour shores: [url]http://www.gameseek.co.uk/productdetail/GBA88hjz322psc5qrx7/[/url]

i looked at nintendo.com.au, but there is nothing about it, and i couldnt see an email address either so i cant ask them about it!!

oh yeah! Deus Ex $7!!! shame on you if you dont already have it though, its one of the greatest games ever made, get it now and redeem yourself...

I got splintercell pandora tomorrow for 50% off

What is Pandora Tomorrow like Catfood? It looks fairly interesting. The new one being made for the PC looks really sweet :)

waaaaaaaaaah i dont have any money cause i just spent it all on a video card!!!

$300 later at the Brisbane City store....

Mario Kart Double Dash is 25% off ($75)
F-Zero GX is 50% off ($50)
Tony Hawks Underground is 50% off ($50)
Warcraft 3 battle chest is 25% off ($82)
Enter The Matrix PC is 50% off ($25)
And they always have Half Life Blue Shift at their sales so I decided I should buy a copy ($20).

I'll no doubt buy more before the sale is over. If only their Gamecube section was more plentiful...

quote:Originally posted by Aven

What is Pandora Tomorrow like Catfood? It looks fairly interesting. The new one being made for the PC looks really sweet :)

I havent bothered installing it yet, I'm having a few issues with my comp that are a real pain

Finally bought myself a copy of Frozen Throne ($29). It's been a long time coming.

Also, their current catalog has 25% off Logitech products (whether or not the coupon is needed, unsure)

I went in and bought Simpsons Hit and Run today. been playing it all afternoon. Damn fun game. Mix Crazy Taxi with GTA and chuck in the Simpsons :D

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire

i picked up NSYNC Hotline for 75c! bargin! and that was 50% off (says a lot about the quality of it dosnt it?)

Did you get a stare from the salesperson at the counter? [:0] [:D]

Oh, the Transformers: Movie dvd was great. It has the Stan Bush "You've got the touch" video clip in there. Crazy 80's mullet, way too tight jeans, crappy video effects, and air guitar action! They had all sorts of transformer toys tv commercials on the disc too, and I actually remember them [:0]

Hey, this seems like a perfect thread to pose a question to you guys. What sites do you frequent to see when a game is coming out. Here in the States, I just check out www.ebgames.com but I can't find the australian link for EBgames (if they have one) so I kind of at a loss for when I get over there.

Thanks guys!

I generally check out EB Games. Aus release dates are fairly similar to the US ones now (perhaps to slow down piracy?).

Otherwise I find that www.gameswarehouse.com.au are pretty good. They have excelent delivery. I ordered a game and it was on my door step the next afternoon :)

quote:Did you get a stare from the salesperson at the counter?

ohh yeah[:D]

there was a few of us that bought them (we got six copies in total), and it turns out the guy that sold them to us knows one of the teachers at QANTM, and he told him "these gay guys came in and bought all these nsync games". them we ran into the teacher latter and told him we bought them, he he was like: "that was you!?!?" and he told us about his friend's comments. it was really funny. hope he lets his friend know we're not homosexual though, i dont want strange looks next time i got in there....

anyway, stil dunno what we're gonna do with the cds, but in the end, we got some 75c DVD cases!

*laughs* Man... you're a goose @:-D

GameCube Console
Extra Controller
Memory Card
Final Fantasy:Crystal Chronicles.
EB 2 year extended warranty.

$251 - thats a pretty fine deal.

Cant wait for Resident Evil 4. [:D]

Not as good as the deal I scored at Toys R Us the other week.

GameCube Consonle
Extra Controller
Memory Card
Super Smash Brothers
Zelda collectors disc (first 2 Zeldas, Ocarina of Time, Majoras Mask)

$198 - even better deal :P

Hey thats not bad!! [:D]
My bargaining skills could only get a new release $99.95 game down to $75 unfortunately it was too hard to beat him down any lower. [:(]

Plus i paid 29.95 for the 2 year full coverage warranty.

I want Zelda collectors disc!.... Toys R Us you say... Hmmmmmmm

quote:Originally posted by DaMunkee

Hey, this seems like a perfect thread to pose a question to you guys. What sites do you frequent to see when a game is coming out. Here in the States, I just check out www.ebgames.com but I can't find the australian link for EBgames (if they have one) so I kind of at a loss for when I get over there.

Thanks guys!

Yeh, EB games Australia doesn't have a web presence, I don't think (I remember trying to search for it a while ago). Shame really - there definately should be.

We went back to EB last week, and I grabbed myself 3 dvd's called "The Future of Videogames", which has all the highlights of E3 2003 for each of the 3 big consoles. Is it just me, but was 2003 a year full of promises that just didn't deliver? Well, apart from Eyetoy, all the big announcements are still unreleased (GT4, GTA4, MGS3, Doom3, Halo 2 and tonnes more), were cancelled or just didn't live up to the hype (True Fantasy Live, Maxtrix), or even ended up disappearing/phased out (PS2 network adaptor). The Nintendo disc was probably the worst, there simply wasn't much for show at all.

quote:Originally posted by Souri

Is it just me, but was 2003 a year full of promises that just didn't deliver? Well, apart from Eyetoy, all the big announcements are still unreleased (GT4, GTA4, MGS3, Doom3, Halo 2 and tonnes more), were cancelled or just didn't live up to the hype (True Fantasy Live, Maxtrix), or even ended up disappearing/phased out (PS2 network adaptor). The Nintendo disc was probably the worst, there simply wasn't much for show at all.
[/quote]

Well having gone to E3 that year, I know a few of those games were announced as to be coming out in 2004 or 5. Like MGS3 was announced, with no release date but the buz was > 2 years, the PS2 network adapter did come out in the US which is probably where those dvds focus on. The games that have all the hype like "Matrix" well, that's what E3 is, just a place for companies to throw way to much money at a game that they know isn't up to par, but by hyping it up, they're trying to "convince" the public to buy it. That's funny that the Nintendo Disc didn't show much at all, as for me at least, Nintendo had the best showing at last years E3. I mean, so many great games came out. I got to play Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles there, Zelda Windwalker, I got to play with the Game Boy SP. Man, I don't even remember all the goods that were at E3 for nintendo (hehe, and Mario Kart Double Dash was there) haha, I just remembered, Nintendo had the Laker Girls dancing there that year as well. I'll have to search for the picture of them :)

I do admit though, there were a few disappointments, Like you mentioned, Doom3 and Halflife 2 are going the way of Duke Nukem Forever. I mean, they need to come out already! Even Doom3 is starting to look dated! And I just feel sorry for developers like the one that's developing Vampire. They're not allowed to release thier game that's based ont he Half Life 2 engine until Half Life 2 actually comes out! Hopefully at least those two games will come out by the end of this year. Oh, and hopefully next year's E3 will have blizzard showing something other then World of Warcraft :) I'm mean, it's an excellent game, but it's been their only game shown for the past 2 years! (I don't count Starcraft Ghost as that's being developed by a third party for Blizzard).

Hehe, blah, rant off :)

The PS2 network adaptor didn't dissapear, it's out and available.[:)] I think they are pretty cheap too, like around $60, and no ongoing service fee (unlike Micro$oft Xbox). I'm hanging to try out Everquest, but first I need broadband...

to anyone living in brisbane there is a store in fortitue vally in the cathedral village called burn and its having a sale aswell. the great thing about this store is:
1. all games that are $99 in EB are $93 in burn.
2. they import a heap of overseas games there. we found chrono cross, chrono trigger, final fantasy tactics for the ps1 and the entire hack series!
there is like 2 stands full of games for the dreamcast! and resident evil zero is out for the gamecube!!
the only thing is is that u need your console modded.. :(
but im saving up! *rubs hands togther*

i would go into EB every week to by a new game..then after a while i went for a job there and they totally dissed me ever since

quote:Originally posted by palantir

The PS2 network adaptor didn't dissapear, it's out and available.[:)] I think they are pretty cheap too, like around $60, and no ongoing service fee (unlike Micro$oft Xbox). I'm hanging to try out Everquest, but first I need broadband...

Yeh, the big announcement by Sony at e3 2003 was that the adaptor was coming out and packaged with the PS2.. unfortunately, Sony ditched that idea a while later so you have to buy it seperately..

I wonder what EB does to all those games that don't get sold off in the sale. I mean, there were HUGE stacks on many tables of old games for display. I am willing to devote my services in finding a new home for those games.

I wonder if they end up throwing them out? Give ?em to me!!! :P

I got a couple of old games I missed for cheap: Thief 2 and Dues Ex both for about $5 each. I also got Chrome for $25 and Prince of Persia on PS2 for $45 (man that?s a cool game!).

Ah, Sony was going to release the network adaptor bundled with the console. That would have been cool. Has the whole console game online thing really taken off? It?s not something advertised very much (or at all). I hope when I finally get online with the PS2 there are actually people to play with out there!

just bought some $50 headphones at half price yesterday, gotta be better than my previous $9 ones