Game Design

Wow, that was a long post - good effort.

Firstly, may I suggest that story is not so distant from gameplay as you might think. In fact, story has a great influence over gameplay - it has the power to motivate the player, and shape their decisions, so as a designer you should be aware of this and exploit it.

Some small gripes with your interface - I would suggest that the Square button also pauses the game and brings up a targeting reticle, as the player will probably not always be facing the right direction. This is more consistent with the rest of your control scheme. Also, you may want to ask WHY your character has to run out of ammo....

Also, and this is a personal preference, your Stance button is taking control away from the player in terms of shooting accuracy. A good game should try to avoid "dice-rolling" as much as possible, as it is difficult for the player to perceive the result of his/her actions.

Lastly, it would be good to see some descriptions of levels and actual game segments, so it would be easier to understand how your systems interact (as it stands, the actual challenges the player will face are a little undefined.)

OK, that's enough from me for now... hope I've given you a little bit to think about. Keep up the good work - you're certainly on the right track with your design work.

It's amazing to see someone put so much effort into their reel. Really quite uplifting to see someone with so much dedication.

If you ever want some assistance or advice with level & game designing using unreal, feel free to give me a bell.

quote:Originally posted by azmodai

It's amazing to see someone put so much effort into their reel. Really quite uplifting to see someone with so much dedication.

If you ever want some assistance or advice with level & game designing using unreal, feel free to give me a bell.

Thank you very much mate. The kind words are always well received. I came to the conclusion some time ago that if I really wanted in the game industry. I would have to show how dedicated and head strong I was to get into it. Thus they I?ve been so passionate about this folio.

Your support is also well received. If I ever get stuck on anything I?ll give you a buzz.

good to see you focusing more on design (both gameplay flow and level design) - last weeks instalment I was wondering if you where deviating too much into asset creation and losing focus on your desing goal, so it's good to see you're sticking to your objective. [:)]

keep going, great to see your thoughts evolving!

I'm liking what I'm seeing.
Keep up the great job Caroo, I'll be interested how it turns out :)

That's one long ScriptedTrigger setup! Have you considered breaking it up into several shorter ones? Not that it really matters, and you've already got it setup and working. I hated the damn things tho [:p]

Project is looking good [:)]

Not much to say that would be too relevant since I'm not a designer, but I will say that I respect the ambition and drive you're putting into this project - well done.

Good stuff man, put yourself out there, this is the kinda thing that eventually will get you noticed, and really I'm quite suprised companies havent been asking you to apply already. They spend far too much time looking for the good ol 3/4 years of 'exp' that they overlook and miss examples of tenacity such as this that would play just as much as an asset.

I havent gone through it all yet but I'll read and post my opinions later tonight. Though through the personal conversations you and I have had I for one am sure you'll land a job someplace soon Caroo, sooner or later a company will look past the stats and see the potential.

Looking good! Any timeframe for when you expect this level to be completed?

I was recently offered a level design position (my work has been mostly UT2004 based) so I'll have a think about it and post my thoughts/tips later. A junior level design position would seem like the most appropriate place to start out.

PS: If you need any help with the Unreal Engine/Editor let me know and I'll be glad to help :)

J.I.Styles & Jackydablunt:

Thanks for the support guys. My mind-set on this project is that while I?d love one of the studios to take notice of me now and see the passion. I'm betting heavily that it wont happen. I have sparked interest in one company before but I believe there still a little iffy on me. I don't blame them really. A designer with no credentials is a very dangerous thing to a companies production, he could fit in well..or....

Nexx:

The name of the project is called "before20" meaning I have to my birthday to finish this level and all the documentation/assets. That gives me as of now around 5 months to get this level looking impressive and something that will cause curiosity in the studios. Keep in mind though there?s far more to do then just building assets in Maya and exporting them to unreal ed, There?s texturing, scripting, designing and layouts, training, concept art and hopefully if time is kind I?ll make a intro and outro movie to the level as well.

While I?d prefer a junior game design title I?m trying to cover both bases by also adding in a lot of level design into this project as you can see. Leaving me open to apply for two positions instead of just the one.

Cheers guys. And good luck and all your endeavours as well.

Caroo, one thing I'll point out is you need more of a synopsis on the actual level, I'm not really too sure of the overall goal of the design itself. You've got the wireframe there of the level, but I'm not actually too sure of what I'm looking at. I know you bear some 2D concept skill so use it, hammer up some schematics of the level with descriptions of what you hope to achieve in specific parts, storyboard a few sequences as well, and the Player's progression through it. A Designer has the Design in their head, they write a document purely for the benefit of others (also to keep track of stuff though meh), so you have to explain the experience of what you're hoping to achieve and get all those involved thinking on the same lines. The more that people know of the goal, the more they can help you achieve it, and in this case, the more you can show your skill in achieving it yourself.

One thing I've brought up with a few guys at certain Industry and portfolio review nights I've been to, is you have to always assume the reader is non industry, doesn?t play games, and has only a minute to spare in which to read the document. You have to get as much info into the first page (paragraph even) as you can, and leave the detail to last. One thing I've found and really its no surprise, is that people just don't want to read documents and would prefer to simply just get a jist and wing it, so you have to try and keep it as brief as you can but as comprehensive as you can as well. It's no easy ask but you can get a feel for it eventually, certain details just simply don't need to be given right away, and can be saved for an appendix or something later.

This also allows you to maintain the dynamic nature of the Design. Some of the best ideas you'll come up with will be while laying in bed at night halfway through the production, or you'll get from the guy who delivers the watercooler bottles to the company, so although its dangerous to throw spanners around the place while everything's on a roll, its also dangerous to design too much detail too early and kill the chance of a possible improvement in the future. Its good to keep a basic overall synopsis document to always refer back to and that'll be the bible, the thing that will guide everyone and yourself, it covers all aspects of the project but keeps it all brief and easy to read. The detail of each section however you hold for separate appendix' that you can get into and change at a later date (after much discussion and compromise), and hopefully wont screw up other parts of the project. This being said however, sometimes you can get away with just one big F?Off doc, but always keep the detail to the back.

One last thing and this is a big one, is Spelling and Grammar. The primary purpose for your documents is for them to be read by a large number of parties, more than likely from all parts of the world, so legibility is paramount. Posting on forums yeah its cool (I can see a number of mistakes I?ve made in this post so far myself, whatever) but with any serious documentation you have to take into a word processor and read and reread multiple times, you have to be really strict with yourself. Just force yourself into a habit of rereading absolutely everything you do, even quick stuff. If you're even slightly not sure of a word then copy paste it into MS Word or something with a spell check (google even). Also make Dictionary.com your favourite site, by regularly using the thesaurus you can compact a lot of info into a few words, its also a great tool for coming up with exotic names.

And most importantly you gotta be humble and ever self critical, you can be proud of your achievements, even boast sometimes, but the moment you stop looking to improve, is the moment you stop improving. (this quality I think you've already got, I'm just noting its importance). Once you're in the industry always remember, Artists know Art better than you, Coders know Code better than you. Even if you've dabbled somewhat in this or that, the other guys in the company work in that specific fulltime and their knowledge is critically important. Never just lock yourself in a room, design something, and pass it on, always ask the Art, Tech, and Marketing Leads for advice and feedback on everything, right from day one.

I remember again when you first jumped onto sumea touting your devotion, and really you havent ceased to amaze me. It wont be long before your snaffled up if you maintain this drive.

Im in total agreeance with jackydablunts last post, youll remember much earlier on my comments to you about spelling and grammer [;)] and in paticular the last paragraph in his post.

Thats pure gold advice.

Good one Caroo!

With determination like that you?re bound to find the job you?re looking for, it's only a matter of time.

Make sure you post your level once it's done, so we can "test" it[;)]

I read somewhere that the new unreal 2007 engine renders 500,000 to 1,500,000 triangles [polys]

That might be a starting point as unreal have always been a reliable measure of technology at the current time.

Regardless of totaly poly limits, always cut it where you can man, for a 3rd person RTS, depending on how close you get to the character and how much action you want, I seriously believe you should always try cap a character off at only a few thousand polys. Artists will disagree with me here but gameplay always overules art, framerate comes first no compromise.

Its all about texture really, and how big they're going to be on screen, if the character will not take up any more than so many pixels on the screen then theres not too much use in hammering up the texture beyond that point. The more experienced members on here would give better advice but I reckon with 36 characters just make a low cap early, maybe 5000 a character, less even, yes it is next gen and you can do more but the original soul calibur characters were that, and were close too, they took up the majority of the screen and still looked fantastic. It'll allow you to get more out of the gameplay as well, more detailed and interactive environments, vehicles, better weapons and effects, and whatever.

For a straight up action, the Player will watch their character directly for a while yeah, but they'll be watching the environments and action the most, you have to make that the most impressive. Don't let the artists run away with more polys here and more polys there because later you will find yourself having to cut things or change the original plan and the game will be crap, the Game as a whole is the piece not their individual character, and if the framerate is slow then even the most beautiful character will look crap... and seriously, if a game artist cannot make a character look good with 5000 polys? Then where do they get off calling themselves a game artist, 5000 is heaps.

Of course you also have to consider if the characters will be used in cut scenes and with facial animation and all that as well, obviously that buxes up the limits a bit...

Just to add, once you have initial builds underway, monitor your framerates, if you've got a few frames to spare then kick ass, add some polys.

Thank you for your replies, very informative thus far. [^]

It's never (AFAIK) been decided in court. Apple sued Microsoft over Windows "look and feel" being taken off the Mac, and I believe that the case was resolved instead by a licensing agreement rather than a landmark court decision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_v._Microsoft

Yeah AFAIK I have never heard anything like that either. But that wasnt the point of this post.

What I'm asking is how far can a designer go with copying elements of other games before he should be ashamed of himself for having no original ideas?

Its a tricky question I know, whenever I think of games design-wise alot of the time my mind wanders to what other similar games have done and sometimes I use that as a base of how some gameplay element could work. I do however have this voice waaay back in my head continuously pushing me to do things as different and as original as possible.

And theres the flipside of copying gameplay. I would have alot of respect for a designer that, for example, copies the GTA formula but actually makes it even more kickass than GTA itself. But usually the case is that its just a rip-off, and a bad one.

Other games that fit that category that just came to mind. Juiced, a Need for Speed wannabe, blatant rip-off and a bad one. Also there are a couple of racing/combat games coming out or already out, cant remember their names, but they are nearly identical to the Burnout series and as far as I can tell they kinda suck .[;)]

Nothing is truly "original" really. And if it is truly original in visuals and gameplay the only thing I can think of is one of those obscure Russian games where nothing is explained. Even a game shadow of the colossus isn?t original to a whole. Melbourne houses transformers had you battling a giant before colossus came out.

Copying concepts isn?t a sin. Copying an entire idea or formula however is. But how close do you define all this? Easy!

Generic WW2 game. Pretty standard FPS in which shooting and throwing grenades to kill an enemy is the only thing you do. Lets say that?s made by EA games.

Another Generic WW2 game. Exactly the same visual style and game play BUT instead of being alone your surrounded by many of your allied troops.

Not a big change really. But it's more then enough not to come up as copying in legal rights.

"NEW" ideas for games come up in three ways:
1) We ether add one or two new elements to a genre of game "Like drivable vehicles in first person shooters"
2) We cross hybrid genre types like RTS and FPS in the same game and hope to god it works [and more times then less it doesn?t.]
3) We look to old ideas to make new games. Today?s survival horrors can be traced back to pac-mans game play. Avoid unkillable enemies to progress by getting power ups and casually having enough power to destroy the enemy. Even though they always come back.

There are unlimited ways to make "new" ideas. I myself shell out a game and story idea most of the time through listening to different kinds of music. Everything is a reference.

So really don't get shits at the designer when he rips of 'metal of honour' and calls it 'Call of duty.' Super cool ideas that ARE FESABLE is hard to come by. And for the safety of his fellow workers and their paychecks he sometimes submits to unoriginality. True originality hardly ever grabs corporate attention because by the term "new and fresh" they really mean. "Cool and fun. but with security."

Funnily enough, even some good games decided to "copy" good elements of other games.

One example is where you can use the PDA in Doom 3 - the interface reminds me of the system used in the Blade Runner game. Also Halo did use vehicles before Half Life 2 did :)

If you could say that Id Software "invented" the FPS genre, then how many games also use this genre now?

I agree with Caroo in that if it adds to the formula and makes it better, then it's not a bad thing. Games are getting a lot harder to make, so companies probably like to use a successful formula to make money. It's a bit like what the music industry is doing churning out remakes from the 60s, 70s, 80s and packaging them in dance music :) But change does happen slowly and hopefully a new form of game genre will develop.

All throughout game history, there've been games that have innovated or became so popular that a barrage of clones and copies followed. Space Invaders, Mario Bros, Tetris, Street Fighter 2, and Doom to name just a few oldies that spawned countless clones. A lot of those clones usually add their bit to the formula and pushed the genre further, so in that way I'm pretty fine with the process. But there have been times where game developers have copied a game so blatantly that action has taken place against the copier. One of those was when Nintendo took Rainbow Arts to court for their [url="http://images.google.com.au/images?q=great%20giana%20sisters&ie=utf-8&o…"]Great Giana Sisters[/url] game which was too close to Super Mario Bros for comfort. Anyway, that game was eventually pulled from the shelves.

My opinion is that if a game developer is making a complete copy of a game without adding any new innovative ideas or anything else substantial to the game idea or mechanics, then it's doomed and the game is destined to be outdated by the time it's launched. Considering the long development times these days, by the time you see the game you want to copy, and the time that it takes to develop it, right till when you finally release it, many years will have already passed since the original idea, and many other competitors have probably pushed that genre much further.

Good point Souri, but that doesnt stop them from trying. I know that True crime for example did not sell like GTA, not even near, but it did sell quite abit anyway. Which goes to show. And yeh, its not a complete copy but its pretty close.

And Caroo and ruzza, i'm not debating whether its should happen or not as I agree thats the only way games will evolve, bit by bit. I'm just saying at what point does a designer put his foot down and say "NO! Our main character for our GTA clone will not be named CJ! I will not allow it!" Oh and btw CJ is the characters name in GTA:San Andreas. Funnily enough the main character in the GTA rip-off Driver:Parallel lines is called TK... hmmm... yes... ok...

I'm just ranting anyway, Its just sometimes I believe we must push ourselfs to at least take a shot at something more creative and have standard formulas in order to fall back on if things dont go well - design-wise.

quote:Originally posted by skunx

I'm just saying at what point does a designer put his foot down and say "NO! Our main character for our GTA clone will not be named CJ! I will not allow it!"

That my friend is purely an opinion and will differ to every designer and it can probably translate into every industry from graphic design to furniture design.

For me: I'd put my foot down and say No to the copying of the game if I was allowed absolutely no input on what this game had. This doesn?t mean I wanna decide every facet of it. God no I?m not a power monger.

But flexibility of design and creative input is in my opinion just as important to a development team as good management. Sure some things for the sake of direction have to be planted in stone.. But if the game was a total clone and only a few art assets and story/character changes where made [which is really all the difference between doom3 and quake4]

You?d find I wouldn't be working there long. If it?s no longer a joy to design then why am I doing it?

I'm fully with skunx of course, we've had this discussion a few times, it's about integrity, if you've got a design that you yourself know deep down is copying another game, then its on your own integrity to at least try to search for an alternate delivery. Yes you may not be able to find a better solution but if you can say you at least tried, then you can call yourself a Designer, its pretty much the definition of the title I believe. Sorry Caroo but its too easy to say "Everything's a copy" yes Colossus wouldn't be 100% original but man, ain't no other game like it.

There is soooo much a developer could do with a WW2 shooter, a design i'd like to do, what I call 'Reichschild' is about the player taking the role of a Fallschirmjager, a German paratrooper in WW2, think about it, you're taking the player right out of their comfort zone, they're fighting for the nazis. Even if you keep the exact same mechanic as MOA and COD with a simple role reversal you're playing waaay outta left field, I think it would be awesome.

Unlike the Allies the German soldiers were kept fighting throughout the entire duration of the war and there would be some incredible stories. You could cut the game up with interviews with actual soldiers and it would be enthralling. You'd start off in the boot camps on the eve of Poland listening to Hitler's speeches, everything's light and proud and hopeful, and initially it'd be all go.

First few missions you're absolutely hammering, rolling over Poland, rolling over France and Belgium with thousands of infantry and tanks by your side, then a southern campaign, Greece, Africa, no stopping them, but then... they hit Russia. There could be offhanded conversations about how they shouldve waited till England was finished, or how perhaps how its getting colder and all that kinda stuff, "No, Hitler knows what he's doing". Throughout you could hint at subtleys like cattle trains rolling past with barbed wire over their windows, and though the characters may not know what they are (or they might) the Player will.

It could start swinging, the Player's unit makes their first retreat, then theres another, and another, they start finding Black propoganda dropped by the English and it messes with morale, then, Germany declares war on the US. From that point on the feeling of desparation builds and builds, more and more Russians, the English bombers start appearing overhead, theres a massive failed air assault over Crete and they cancel all future airborne attacks so the Player's unit is grounded. Then, D-Day, you're fighting for your ass trying to keep the GI's from reaching the shore but you have to run, you're now the one on the ground fighting the paratroopers, you fight them in France or the English in Holland, Hitler orders a final attack in the Ardennes and they hammer the GI's back but your final hope is dashed when all these indestructable new King Tiger tanks run out of fuel.

Final mission is completely reversed from the first, you're defending Berlin from the Russians, Hitler's dead and your fighting with old men and kids, where you once had all the ammo and equipment to choose from you've now got 1 clip and have to find more, there are shells exploding everywhere, civillians are being shot for surrendering, hundreds of thousands of Russians are entering the city, and where you once had whole armies running beside you, your alone, and your final mission is now just simply to survive and escape to the West to be captured by the Americans instead.

It could play exactly like COD, but just look at the difference a simple role reversal would make, one change, and its completely messing with the Player's mind, and we haven't even BEGUN to tweek the gameplay yet. I find a lot of people are just too content with only one feature carrying a whole game, they come up with one sales point for the box and thats it, it becomes the only thing they focus on and as for the rest they just settle for "the way the other game did it" a Designer should design, not simply copy/paste.

quote:NO! Our main character for our GTA clone will not be named CJ! I will not allow it!" Oh and btw CJ is the characters name in GTA:San Andreas. Funnily enough the main character in the GTA rip-off Driver:Parallel lines is called TK... hmmm... yes... ok...

TK?? the kid?? thats just terrible, total ripoff of alex kidd.. when will the plagiarism end... those damn driver creators, totally copied the looks of GTA3 too, except a long time earlier... you even start gta3 in a car almost identical to the car you start driver 1 in...

dont think its big deal myself, original games are so few and far between, very rare things, and original games dont come out often enough to just play original games, same with movies, if Driver 4 or True Crime give some GTA obsessives sick of aimlessly driving around san andreas after the games ended some pleasure even if not as much as the GTA games, then its jobs done...

cant just play the great games, can remember being so sick of total annhilation that i would play dark reign for hours, dark reign was a useless game in comparison, with no features TA didnt do better, but it had a heapa missions and Id played TA to death...

people seem happy to accept the next FPS as original "oh look, theres no crates/barrels" or some crap, but in unaccepted genres like 3rd person crime simulators, everything seems to be plagiarism.

guess just gotta wait a few years, the doom-clone tag has dissapeared although the difference still between modern FPS and doom is pretty minimal except the graphics and AI/physics.. Galaga-clone tag well gone, so hopefully as GTA series ages the GTA-clone tag will die off cos its stupid...

necrobator i'm not sure who inspired who, if you remember driver and grand theft auto came out around the same time back in the day, only difference was that gta (then) was a 2D top-down game and driver's gameplay was primarily focused on driving and not a mix of driving and walking/running (although it did have some very limited on-foot sections).

And they were both sweet back in the day, but you could still see driver lacked the certain charm GTA games had (well thats personal preference). I'm sure the gta creators had a look at how driver did things when they were developing GTA3 but that resulted in a unique and interesting game, they re-created the world they had imagined. On the other hand the driver franchice has been declining ever since and even the driving part of it is not cool anymore. They have tried to emulate GTA more and more (via having more access on foot).

The point is, they are both games doing the same thing and having a very similar story (main character gets out of jail and wants revenge or similar) its just that it seems driver and other such games are content with simpy copying the formula over and over. Its not a bad thing but its not a good thing either. I mean the whole idea of a large sandbox environment can be put to use for something other than a crime-related game.

And yes there are many original games, it just depends what you think original is. A game doesnt have to define a genre to be original. Even the smallest details can make a game original compared to one that doesnt have those details.

And even though they were both ok for their time, the original GTA was way better than the original Driver. Why? Cause in GTA a mission had you parking a van full of explosives under the police headquarters whereas driver didn't.[xx(]

Driver had sweet vehicle damage for its time though.

GTA, driver and true crime are not rip offs all three have a different set story environment. In one your a gangster criminal in the other your a for hire driver and the other a cop. I dont see these as copies. I believe that even though the game play might be similar the games are mostly different to each other and unique in their own way. There are limits to what a game engine can be meaning a person can only do limited things like drive a a car and shoot someone, so its up to the designers to use these bases to set a game-story environment and compete with other designers to show who is more creative and which tittles and sequels sell better. A rip off is when you can cleary see that writters have not used original ideas and details but have modified them to make it look different without honestly paying for it or asking permission. This is where I believe legal action should be taken.

Yeah I mostly agree with that, apart from taking legal action, i doubt thats needed. I'm just imagining designers themselves being to ashamed to design a total rip-off thus forcing them to be at least somewhat creative, which in the end is a good thing.

I was just ranting on how it seems that lately designers are getting dangerously close to being content with copying stuff and not coming up with stuff for themselves. I can relate to them though, I can see how friggin difficult it is to come up with something somewhat original and entertaining at the same time. Some times it just doesnt work and knowing what others have done is a good backup.

I guess what I was most annoyed by was when i watch these developer interviews on gamespot where usually the lead designer is talking about their game. It annoys me cause they seem to come off as total smartasses talking up their game that is a clone of another game but never mentioning that they took their inspiration from that said other game. They sort of seem like "yeah and like i'm the designer, and like me and the boys came up with this awesome game its really kickass...etc etc". I know its part of their job to bullshit here and there especially about their baby project but it still bugs me when i see it.

I would like to believe that if i'm ever in such a position, talking about the game i'm making, I will have the balls to say "hey well my game is cool, its inspired by this or that game but we have tried to evolve this and that and take the best elements of this or that to make a better game". I have alot of respect for designers that pay tribute to the games that inspired them to do things one way or the other. Maybe i'm not making much sense at all.

skunk - it makes sense what you say. If you see musicians being interviewed, they usually say they have been influenced by different types of music, bands and individuals. Usually if a musician decided to sample a piece of older music (like some dance tracks are doing), they would need to follow copyright law. I suppose games seem to have a more blurry line when it comes to copyright, otherwise there wouldn't be as many FPS (or other genre) clones :)

I think most consumers won't buy the game it was a bad clone of another or just was copied with a few bits and pieces changed, so it's probably in the game designer's best interest to put in some originality. Many people like the originality of games and good gameplay. Also people will buy sequels if they are good (eg: I liked Max Payne and the sequel game as both games pushed the envelope).

is there a web site where games are rated? (by the players?)when I buy games I always tend to decide by looking at whats written on the box or magazines. Also just would like to mention that I really hate when sequels are released and are cheap and pathetic due to an attempt to make money off the impressions of the original.[:(!]i was pissed off when doom 2 only gave me an extra cheap s@#T shot gun all the money them guys have doom 3 was cool, i liked the torch

Well I disagree, i though Doom 2 was better than Doom 1 and that the torch in Doom 3 was frustrating, at least until you get used to changing back and forth.

................................ ok, I just got pwned myself :)

Umm Binh, it's generally a bad idea to go posting homework on sumea [;)] There are going to be a lot of people doing something similar atm.

Asking here seems like a good idea, you could get some really good advice, but it creates a minefield of plagiarism problems.

Sorry, but I have to ask you to remove it. I wish I didn't have to ask.

One comment now is you need a lot more detail.

quote:Originally posted by lorien

One comment now is you need a lot more detail.

Hey Lorien,

It's cool. I've removed it.

I am a bit confused though. Could you elaborate a bit about the issues that may arise from posting a pitch document?

hehehe.

Lorien, are you suggesting that Binh doesn't have the IP rights to display (his?) work as he sees fit?

"You've changed man"

HaHa [:D] Not at all mcdrewski. The reason is people all over Aus are going to be doing similar things right now. While I personally think it would be great to post homework directly (this was something I set Binh to think about on Friday) and receive diverse feedback and hence do a better job, there are strict rules about plagiarism, and students are normally very wary of showing each other their assessable work- often money changing hands is a requirement [;)]

If chosen by Binh's classmates this spec and the game it's about will be assessable.

nice (i just looked at the layout and hit the buttons, i didnt read any of the story info), this sort of design is done quite a bit, and there are some good examples on gamasutra as i recall. nothing interactive like this though, which is pretty cool. a good way to turn on only the essential information.

Nice work. One thing I couldn't work out was which bits are cutscene and which are player action. The writing surely suggests that bits of it are cutscenes, but nothing in the layout highlights those. For example, waking up in the cell, the elevator ride, etc.

...as the resident QA monkey here though, I can't help but point out some bugs - no offense meant, it's just habit now.

1) "your not pushing fast enough" on spash screen should be "you're not pushing..."
2) when "item placement mode" is selected many mouseover hotspots no longer work (clicking shows the 'construct mech keycard'
3) player path appears over "point X." text when displayed.
4) third class of enemy does not display
5) various other typos and odd sentences/punctuation.

quote:Originally posted by mcdrewski

Nice work. One thing I couldn't work out was which bits are cutscene and which are player action. The writing surely suggests that bits of it are cutscenes, but nothing in the layout highlights those. For example, waking up in the cell, the elevator ride, etc.

...as the resident QA monkey here though, I can't help but point out some bugs - no offense meant, it's just habit now.

1) "your not pushing fast enough" on spash screen should be "you're not pushing..."
2) when "item placement mode" is selected many mouseover hotspots no longer work (clicking shows the 'construct mech keycard'
3) player path appears over "point X." text when displayed.
4) third class of enemy does not display
5) various other typos and odd sentences/punctuation.

I stress the terms "Basic Skills" and "Prototype" XD

Some points you stated are due to imcompletion. And some are due to a lack of knowleadge in flash.

no probs - and no offense meant - I tried doing flash dev once and it almost killed me! [:)] I'm impressed.

How would you go about designing levels with multiple floors?  Just use two separate maps I'm assuming and have some button to go to next?  Of course you'd also mark points of access to other parts of the level.  Just wondering anyway =)

I think it's a great how you've done this.  Where did you get your ideas from for this project?  I'm a level design noob but I'd like to know more if anyone can direct me to any good articles/books.

Cheers,

Anthony

if you want advice for mobile related stuff my best advice is to look up Wicked witch studios. give those guys an e-mail and the'll more then likly get back to you. nice guys^^. They do mobile phone games.

Hey,
welcome to the fun of mobile development! So you are doing the graphics, no programming? Is it 2d or 3d? Symbian or J2ME? I have done development in J2ME and Symbian, but I'm more of a programmer than an artist, but feel free to ask me any questions.

In reposense to your questions, yes you can design for the whole screen, it just needs to be set to full screen in the code. I'm not too sure about the colour palette, but you will probably be able to find an answer on [url="http://www.forum.nokia.com/main.html"]Forum Nokia[/url] which is an excellent resource!

Oh I just noticed that you're in Canada... So do you also have the option of developing for Brew?

good point indeed, I can't help but think it's related to two main drivers.

1) games getting bigger and deeper. In the past the challenge was to "finish" the game without dying too many times. As soon as games started getting too big to play in a sitting, saving your progress was needed and "dying" became less useful.

2) The move out of arcades and onto systems that we consider "ours" with "our" save games means there's no pressure to finish in a sitting now.

Of course, we now have UT2k4/Q3A style tournament play flying the flag for the life counter, but I'd love to see what these guys: http://www.experimentalgameplay.com/ might do with a "finite lives" theme...

Multiple lives are a remnant of arcade games in the past like Mcdrewski said, but damnit, they made games a lot more challenging. Games these days hold your hand all the way through to the end, and as a result aren't as satisfying to complete as old games. If you fall off a platform in a recent platformer game, there's usually a quick route back to where you dropped off. You fall off somewhere in a platform game back in the 80's, you lose a life (and a third of your chance to continue) and get booted to the beginning of the level.

Sure, getting booted to the beginning was frustrating, but I honestly believe gamers these days are darn wusses (myself included) who need save points every 2 minutes, and we've been gradually conditioned to this point over the years [:D]. Sooner or later, games are going to be have god mode as standard and your challenge is to rush to the end of the level in the fastest time you can. [;)]

And I used to get to stage 99 in 1942 or finish Rygar on one credit.

I do agree, but it depends completely on the game. I had a look at the Serious Sam 2 demo and it uses "lives". The game itself might be a dud, but I think it's Lives system works well for the style of game - just walk around and blow up everything in sight. I don't think you can save your game, but you can continue if you run out of lives, you just don't get any more points.

For something like Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, introducing a lives thing would destroy the experience. The thing that _really_ shit me with PoP: Warrior Within was that everytime you finished a "level" (even though it was supposed to give the impression of being free-roaming), a special screen would come up saying "You've got a new sands-of-time power available to you for no apparant reason". It completely ruined the experience being reminded all the time that you're just playing a game. Almost the complete opposite of Sands of Time where you could totally immerse yourself in the experience, without interruption, from beginning to end.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a Lives system in a game as long as it makes sense, i.e. it's an active part of the gameplay and not just tacked on in a half-assed attempt to increase longevity. Hmmm....that could be a difficult balancing act.

Mate,

Thats some great work you have done there, a fantastic concept. Have you had much feedback about it?

quote:Originally posted by Majeeva

Mate,

Thats some great work you have done there, a fantastic concept. Have you had much feedback about it?

You ARE the feedback XD... i think its ether it's shear size or bad spelling thats killed many people from reading it XD

that or no one looks at this section...

Hi mate... good start! There's a lot of info in there, I haven't read it all because like your potential employer's will be doing, I'm at work during the time of reading this. There's not a lot of time to get through it all. My suggestion would be to keep going on the doc's, but throw together a much smaller pitch document with around 2 - 3 pages max. Sell your idea, if you're responsible for the illustrations in doc #5, doc #7 and doc #8, include some of these - they're a huge plus in helping to visualise your ideas.

Throw a rough logo together, build up a nice visual style for the game and print in full colour. Send this along with your DVD you have planned (mentioned in your other thread). Blow the socks off them in the first three pages and they'll take the time to take a deeper look into your documents.

I'd also recommend working heavily on some mechanic documents. For example, you have your HUD Interface under the Mission Gameplay Outline document. In an industry situation, this would be a completely seperate document and detailed quite extensively. Perhaps work on detailing some of these kinds of documents, it'd be a good way to show your understanding game mechanics. These documents are meant to get across everything the designer is after, the illustrations you have are fine, but they dont tell programmers what should happen when you fire your weapon... does your ammo count decrease by 'rolling' down to the next number? does it instantly disappear? what happens when your fuel gets low? does it blink red? how does the minimap work, does it rotate with you, or is it just your icon that rotates around? etc...

Hope this helps! It's clear you have the dedication & passion to enter the industry. Entering as game designer straight of the bat is rather difficult, especially in Australia, just keep showing your passion and a kind CEO will make a position for you if there's nothing available :)

^^thanks mate. the feedback is MUCH needed.

gonna start work on two unreal ed levels next year for 6 months. hopefully that will help to in showing level design/completion.

You could document a level prior to building it. Planning out is a big part of the industry, to show you can do this and then follow through with a level would be a big help. Are you going to plan to do a single player level in UE or multiplayer? You dont necessarily have to have AI in order to build a single player level, just build to show your intentions, back it up with a walkthrough etc...

The system cannot find the path specified.

http://www.lostgarden.com/2005/06/nintendogs-case-of-non-game-that.html

I've got a video of an E3 presentation that features nintendogs lying around on my hdd somewhere waiting to be watched. I guess I will tonight or something.

sounds very interesting. i dismissed nintendogs previously becuase it came accros as a small game that you'd play for a few weeks then lose interest in. but judging by the popularity of it thus far it might be work checking out. the article also makes it sound much larger and longer lasting than i previously thought. not that i'm against small games or anything, it's just that at $70 a game i like something that's going to keep me interested for a decent length of time.

One of the things they got right with it - since when have you seen 1 game be in the top 10 at 3 different spots :-P

and maintain those places (or there abouts, moving up and down slightly) for several months

Sorry if I missed something, or if this seems a little rude but that's not the intention.

I think that Seraphon is just a small business, a home business? To see you have come asking for ideas, any comments etc. People cannot comment or offer ideas if they are given no information to work with. Maybe a small description of your game and some features would of helped, not just, "We have a tabletop game, give us ideas". Do you see what I am getting at?

I am no advertisement manager. But if that is how a 'business' would go about asking for something as simple as suggestions, I would hate to see their advertisement on the market. "There is a new game available *end of ad*" I suppose...

maybe a bit more information will help eg: about the company, are you an indie company, a MOD team, are you funded by your-selves or by a publisher, about the game, the features etc...

does Seraphon have a website? do you have a website for the game

the more information you are able to give us the more we are able to help you out

Okay, sorry guys, twas late when i put this up, okay, Seraphon Castings is a new miniature company producing (at the moment) solely 28mm sci-fi miniatures. We're about to go into full production of our first product, DEATHMATCH The Wargame, the basic premise is a recreation of the deathmatch feature of a 1st person shooter game, but with dice and miniatures. We've been hitting all manner of forums with basic information about in the attempts to drum up interest, a website will be up soon and that will contain all the information.

The game's plot (in so far as it needs one) is that in the year 2136 gang violence had become so dangerous that in an effort to remove the danger it was turned into a sport. Arenas were built and rules drawn up. It became an overnight success with all major companies looking for a way to make money on the game. Teams from all over the world compete with each other for big money prizes and fame.

I hope this helps, basically what we'ld like is for you to tell us what features you most like in 1st person shooter games so we can incorporate them in to create a game that feels and plays like the 1st person greats

Cool thanx for that S1nd3x that helps a lot, here are my ideas

For Deathmatch Quake / UT Type Games

1. Heaps of Gore and Gibs
2. Melee Combat
3. Rocket Jumping
4. Very Cool looking Weapons
5. CTF
6. Cool Secondary Fire
7. Double Jumping and Dodging
8. Destructible Enviroments
9. Vehicles (in most recent games)
10. Squads / Commanders

some ideas for now

common gameplay elements:
re-spawning
head shots
pick-ups (shields/armour, weapons, ammo, damage multipliers)

common level elements:
jump pads
teleporters
crates

Boobies!! big ol'uns

Other than that, I'm more of a tctical kind of guy so team based goals like in MOH AA the Normandy level where Jerri has to stop Uncle Sam from blowing up the costal batteries and stuff like that, and yeah, vehicles, Call of Duty Style.

And when you're talking sci fi, you can never shy away from the exoskeleton, the xenomorphs from Aliens, Bugs from Starship Troopers, and Tyranids from 40k. cold, mindless, and in the best cases no eyes (because the eyes contain the soul)

quote:Originally posted by Jackydablunt

Cold, mindless, and in the best cases no eyes (because the eyes contain the soul)

Whoa dude thats deep

Fantastic guys, helps alot, keep it coming

straight from the mind of Giger himself, Riddly Scott asked him why he designed the Alien with no eyes and he replied "because the eyes contain the soul" he also said he takes opium to escape the images in his mind as well so yeah, you dont get too much deeper than Giger, thats one messed up sweede.

i wonder why he'ld use opium, it being a halucinogen surely it would just make the visions in his head more real

Giger was born in Switzerland, btw. [:D]

Giger is a man unbound by "border" :)

Your image dosent work, i beleive deviantart dosent allow direct links to images posted on the site so youll need to find another place to host it or take the easier option which is to upload it when you make your post on these forums

Ok now I'm not an average GD, other's on other companies have very different backgrounds and experience from me and will probebly have better advice. But anyway you've got this idea (e.g a kickin, innovative tactical MMOFPS), and you want to pitch it to show your ideas, cool, it is very good to have one primary project that you manage to put a hell of a lot of detail into. However, what if the company your applying for doesn't want to do an FPS, and in the most likely case have already selected a game they wanna do.

I think a good thing to do is to package that idea for the FPS and put in as much detail as you can with it, but, also make up designs for multiple other types of games as well to show your scope. I personally have ideas and designs for multiple FPS', tactical team based startegies, 3D person combat actions and shooters, RTS', Survival style Sim games, SciFi's, Fantasies, Horror's, licences, whatever. I even developed a design for possible the greatest sex simulation ever, the point is, you have to show you're adaptable.

One thing I find people doing a fair bit as well (myself included) is that they marry themselves to a theme far too much. To me, Gameplay is first, Story is second. I always try to treat the story and the gameplay seperately, trying to make either as strong as the other. Ideally you should be able to stip the story from the game and replace it with another, because it's the Gameplay which is the focus. People write these great stories and they think they have a game, but its actually more just like the Final fantasy games which to me seem basically just interactive movies, take out the story and it's a bloody boring game.

So basically what I think, is show your adaptability, but also stick with your major concept and show that you can think in detail in as many aspects of the production you can. it's also not about the theme, you need to emphasize the means to an end rather than the means itself.

And in final, don't expect to get your concept made, if you're good you'll get a job, but it may not mean your game will get made. I've been in it for almost two years, I haven't had the chance yet to design a concept of my own, even with the next project it looks like it wont be mine. So basically I could be working this industy for five to ten years before I even get a chance to do my own idea. What I CAN do however, is inject as much of my input into that concept as possible, and make it as good as you can, because thats what you can do when you're adaptable.

Ok now I'm not an average GD, other's on other companies have very different backgrounds and experience from me and will probebly have better advice. But anyway you've got this idea (e.g a kickin, innovative tactical MMOFPS), and you want to pitch it to show your ideas, cool, it is very good to have one primary project that you manage to put a hell of a lot of detail into. However, what if the company your applying for doesn't want to do an FPS, and in the most likely case have already selected a game they wanna do.

<< well the idea is.. that is idea im making isn't going to be published. thats never the intension of the foilo, the intension is to show that i have the determanation and imagination to design. The game idea itself is acully an evolution of the old style that the X-COM games played, its a mix of FPS - RPG and BASE BUILDING AND MANAGEMENT, however im also going into deaph about things like the 7 main character you can play as. the history behind the story and other features. I have one advantage in that im a modaratly ok (not good.. ok) concept artist and i can illastrate and annotate what i'm trying to explan.

(and mate XD leave the sex games to the japanese. they do it so badly it's funny)

while im a lover of a curtain genre of game (i think everyone is) i beleave my imagination is adaptable for all genres... however thanks for pointing this out i'll have to inclue some additional work of the other consepts swearling in my head. (like a RPG of australian settlement using kangaroos and dingo people <.< MWHAHAHAHAHA!!!)

thanks for your imput. and i beleave that you'd be a great help to me in making my folio. Wanna give it a shot?>>

Have you played Silent Storm? that was my personal fave of 2004, it's basically what X-Com would've been if made today, just the depth of the gameplay was phenominal, and was almost fully destructable terrains! Brilliant, seriously look for it if you havent already, Auran are actually distributing it so it shouldnt be too hard to find.

The japanese make freaked out games huh, there was this one that we were playing here at work called Sexy Beach, the whole point was to rub lotion on this chick in a choice of positions (I made it to 2nd stage!). The thing I've designed is not as blatant as that, it's a community thing catering for men and women, straight or gay, not just a bunch of giggling Manga girls with 30yr old bodies and 8yr old faces.

I think you've definitely on the right track (as much of a track a GD position offers). Don't worry about the quality of your art, as long as you can simply show what you want to do, remember the majority of of GD's are coders and trust me, THEY CANT DRAW. Anyway I can't offer too much as I myself am not that experienced but yeah I'm willing to give what help I can, just Email me through this thing if you like.

Just make sure to go into a lot of detail on everything, thats what design is afterall, if you don't then you get people doing thing completely different from what you invisioned and it doesn't fit, and because they've already built it, you find that you're the one getting the extra work trying to tie it in. The initial concept design is a small percentage of the project. Stuff like:

"The Player will then be lead on to the Locker Room where there will be two doors.

1.If the Player selects the first door, they will be taken to the Field Entrance Area (Refer to Field Entrance Area section of this document)

2.If the Player selects the second door yadda yadda yadda"

Even that's not detailed enough for what is needed but you get the idea. also a good technique is to try summarise as much as you can as early as you can then refer to detail later, you always have to presume the reader has no time to read.

I remember a very discouraging message I read yesterday in a document on QA Advice.. it basically said there is no such position as GD, you need to either start a company or be with it from the beginning. I find this to be false, if you are determined and talented enough you can go anywhere. Good luck mate, I have always thought about aiming towards Game Design because I have a love for making extremely if not too in depth stories, and advanced gameplay.

My only problem would be that I would always try and push for non-linear gameplay :D

Ahh non linear gameplay, the holly grail of game dev, (except maybe a cross platform non linear mmo with simple yet involving gameplay for both single and multi players, offering an engaging world and theme suitable for both male and female audiences, in short, anything from EA)

The problem I see with non linear is lack of context, take the sims for example, personally I think it's one of the most well made and polished games out there to date, problem is, you play it for like 200 years and at the end of it you're just "... Well... That's me... I might as well just die now I spose" I think people will always need some form of guideline to things, some kind of context like an embracing world or at least some form of story, thats why movies, tv, and books will never die.

Then again theres Big Brother, and that's pretty much a sims that you dont even play! ... in fact, it's like sitting behind and WATCHING someone playing the sims... the conversations are just as riveting as well.

i like the open ended games but with a good story line, one good example were the Gothic series, the world was huge and you were able to go where ever you want (most places) but there was a linear story line which worked for it really well.

I also like the linear games where you have more than one route, or way to get something for example fallout, the world was pretty much open from when you started and there was numerous ways to achieve an objective.

most games like this work really well and has a great following of fans and players.

at the moment in writing up a Game Design Document for a story and concept I've had in mind for a while now based around both of the examples above

When you design do you work within budgets? Like money budgets, time budgets? What if a company only had 2 million and 18 months? You can't make some crazy 500hour MMOrpg or whatever with every bell and whistle under then sun.

If I was hiring a GD, I'd look at all the games you have ever played. I'd also like to see your top 3 favourites and what parts of those games you found worked the best and made them great. Then 3 of the worst games you played and what suffered in their design. (this can go from board games to computer games from any time era)
It wouldnt have to be an essay.

If I was hiring a GD, I'd also look at the number of books you have read. More books and knowledge = more places where ideas can come from = better game design.

You should write a game design document [;)]

I agree with you to an extent, books aren't the only medium for inspiration though, I'm not a major reader myself, quite selectively in fact, most of my ideas actually spring from movies, games and tv (good tv), and thats including the novels I'm writing myself.

Getting feedback on the applicant's impression of certain games is a good one, and you see that quite often in the criteria of certain companies when they're hiring.

I think one of the best criteria is actual knowledge of the production process (industry exp basically) sooooo many people have ideas for great games and all that, it's dead easy to come up with a good idea for a game I come up with one literally every week. What the problem is, is most people's lack of ability towards tailoring that concept to fit their team, like what you said above with the budgets and that.

Also it's a lack of alternate perspective from the pov of the team members, the Designers who have backgrounds in code dont seem to get the importance of aesthetics and timing and mood, on the flipside, thoes with backgrounds in art tend to just go all out and think little of actual feasability. If you can find a middle ground then that's a major factor.

Another major is humility, remaining receptive to the opinions and input of others, and thats a hard one, you have to remember, coders know code better than you probebly ever will, artists know visuals and the programs better than you probebly ever will, so therefore by utilising their input all its doing is making your work stronger.

Well I get my inspiration from.. Well.. Everything really. Books, Television, LOTS of cartoons BOTH western and anime (Heman rules!!) , a few Mangas, news and events and most importantly other games. I try to mix the serious content with more lighthearted stuff to. I watched a cartoon movie called ?the cat returns? a very good lighthearted story. I do recommend it.

Currently I?m playing ?Beyond good and evil? which?while its got its flaws is turning out pretty good in both game play and storyline. On the other flip coin I?m playing ?Harvest moon? on the game boy advance.. In which you farm and believe me, don?t knock it till you tried it. It?s bloody addictive.

As for a bad game.. Play ?the seed? on the PS2? I swear.. You?ll scream and snap the disc in two.

As for my game design documents. I?ve written about 25 pages so far. Just outlining the HQ and its facilities and the character outlines. I?m finding it easer then I first thought.

The entire design doc should be ready in two months. Then I?ll annotate the most important stuff to audio to begin making the presentation.

From the lan that I attended last weekend I was shown a nice prototyping toolset called BlitzBasic, basically a really easy to use fast prototyping tool - language, compiler, IDE, etc, all the nice things that you'd want, including demos with source code, 3d models (I Think). I would say that this might be a very good tool to use, it currently costs about $100 US for the package, but there is an email at the bottom to contact if you're interested in using it for educational purposes.

Personally I would try and stay away from the full blown 3d engines containted in current games, as they require a hefty knowledge of C++, and most of them (information gathered from various sources that have used these engines) are very messy/hard to work with. Even if you are teaching C++ I might suggest looking into something like the torque engine by Garage Games, though that will cost a bit none-the-less. But then another question comes into my head, why teach C++ as a first language? Java, Python, Basic would all be more suitable I would imagine.

(P.S. Sorry for being soo rambly, I've just come back from working a graveyard shift.)

If only there were more teachers like you.. last IPT lesson I had at school the teacher told us to open VB and explained that we were going to make a racing game. The game consisted of two pictures racing across the screen using an inbuilt clock to judge who would win. Anyway it was completely unorganised and I fixed many things wrong with it (I don't bother with VB so I don't get how I fixed it, logical thinking I guess.)

But yeah C++ should be brought into the classroom. I know my school doesn't teach it. Good luck with the proposal hope it goes through, you may even start a new umm, forget the name, well anyway I have a memory block but I am sure you know what I am talking about, compulsory topic in the subject.

I am personally against trying to teach C++ in High School, or even at University.

First of all C++ is a very advanced langauge in the scheme of langauges, I would pick something easier such as Visual Basic, Blitz Basic, Java, Ruby, or some other scripting language first. In those languages you can get immediate visual results of what you've programmed which makes it easier on the student learning where they can get positive feedback without the teacher being there with them. Scripting langauges are also better as they can be sandboxed more easily so that the student can be prevented from destroying the system.

Secondly, teaching C++ can, and probably will, be boring as hell to those people that are not technically inclined and not into programming games. Those people would just be bored stiff with this programming concept and would likely not choose it as a future career. For the other people then they would come out of the course with a mistaken impression that they can program in C++, which would most likely not be the case. C++ is a complex beast, the different compiler implementations, the different runtime environments, the different irregularities and complexities of the langauge mean that you'd have to learn and keep using it for several years in order to at least become proficient at it.

I know this might sound a bit harsh, but it's the truth. I though I knew a lot about the language when I was in High School, but I was as clueless as they would come. It's only after completing University and learning about a whole sleuth of other languages and using C++ during that time that I have realised how complex a language it is. I now would rate myself about a 8.5-9.0 / 10.0 in programming it, but every now and again I read an article from someone and am in awe of how much more detail they know, and it reminds me that I have long to go before I can be a master at it.

My apologies for people who consider this too much of a rant.

^ Good point - I dived in the deep end and started learning C++ as a first language. It took me a good year just to force myself through the first book I bought, and even though I understand the main concepts (inheritence, polymorphism, etc.), I'm still pretty awful at it (often looking up exact syntax, peculiarities... ugh). As much as it pained me doing I.T. last year (11), being forced to build trivial VB examples (that racing 'game' rings a terrifying bell), learning C++ in high school is probably the other extremity.

If you want more focus on artwork and storytelling, you could always have them use a game maker of some sort. Maybe they're taboo here [;)], but my first experience with game development was via Klik 'n' Play in Grade 6; I learnt basic concepts, such as variables and flow control, whilst using RPGMaker. They're not as flexible as coding, but eh.

BTW, I'm new. Do you guys have an intros thread, or shall I just continue butting into threads? [:D]

Many developers have, in the past, tried to make a break by going into the handheld market, due to it's lesser requirements for content etc. and therefore lower cost. I see no reason why this shouldn't continue on the next generation, although perhaps in more moderation as now the handhelds will require more content generally. These days, mobile phone games are probably a better option with regards to low-cost/low-man-power games, since emulators for specific phones/series are quite good quality and often provided for free, and theres not much requirement for a special "devkit" version of phones to test on. The biggest non-person cost is requiring one of each phone you want to release the game on for testing, which can cost you anywhere between $300-5000+.
As for ps2 quality on psp systems, this is going to be very difficult to achieve while still maintaining a battery life above 2 hours from what i've heard. Also apparently the psp cannot render tri's as fast, a few developers have mentioned that they've had to drop the tri count of their models a bit when porting ps2 games to psp.
Anyway, i'm certainly looking forward to the DS. Fingers crossed that cracking it doesn't prove to difficult.
CYer, Blitz

Given the budgets and big named companies that are listed as PSP developers I think that smaller companies will have quite a hard time breaking into that market. There is also the fact that to get access to PSP dev kits you need to submit a game proposal to Sony and have it approved. This would be similar to the DS.

Mobile phone games can be better to get into as a small company but unless you are willing to fund the full cost of the game upfront you will be hard pressed to find a contract to do much with development on that (unless you sub-contract). When you do get contracts the pay may not be much more then keeping the group of people fed and housed for the development time and a very short time after that.

I still think that the Gameboy is a really good ground for a new group of people. The hardest part would be having at least one team member who is good at optimization. You can even get local engine software through Nocturnal for the Gameboy.

Steve Wang from Micro Forte has written a nice bit for those interested in game design - you can read it at the end of the [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/sarticle.asp?art_ID=16"]Industry Portfolio Answers for Aspiring 3D Game Artists[/url] article here... it should at least answer the first question you had.

thankyou for that.

Another suggestion:

Look back through all the previous job postings related to Q/A and Design to see what skills and education they are looking for.

If you are able to, contact some of the local companies and see if anyone there would be willing to answer any questions you may have.

Also, if I remember right there are a few schools offering design courses. May be worth looking at those to get an idea of what they teach.

Jacana's suggestion of looking up the job posts/requirements on here is an excellant one. That's the main reason I try to keep all the posts online, even when I've been asked to remove them when they're old.

The recent job ad for [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2458"]a senior game designer[/url] is very informative...

I dunno exactly what you are talking about, but you could try the igda (maybe www.igda.org ) or www.gamedev.net sometimes has useful resources. Other than that, gamasutra !

Happy hunting!

well I found it, if anyone is interested.

http://www.sloperama.com/advice/idea.htm

thanks for that

Whats your favourite weapons/weapon type?

I've always been a fan of up close and personal weapons like shotguns or the flak cannon. I'm also a bit of a railgun fan though I don't have the patience for sniping.

What do you think is a good number of weapons to have?

Enough weapons with varying pros and cons to allow different play styles to develop. I think having a smaller number of interesting and well balanced weapons is more important than a great variety.

What would you consider to be an essential weapon?

No weapon in particular, it depends on the play style you want your players to use. For fast flowing skill games you'll want fast short range weapons that allow you to move freely such as the shotgun. For slower more strategic games you'll want your snipers, scopes, restricted movements while shooting etc.

What do you think of weapons with alternate fire?

If the alternate fire provides for interesting and different strategies then I approve.

What weapons should there be less of, or that are are over used?

Rocket launchers. Sure Quake DM is a particularly fun rocket fest but not every game needs to be like that. Weapons should be chosen to provide interesting tactical choices in the game environment rather than for their cool potential.

Realistic or unrealistic weapons?

Whatever suits the style of game. Realism is a useful tool for immersion however I don't beleive it should ever come before gameplay in a multiplay death match.

Hope this helps, what is it for?
:)

Im no game designer and im certainly no game maker pro, but i am a seasoned FPS player so i hope my opinion helps :D

Whats your favourite weapons/weapon type?

Actually mr RL (rocket launcher). Not the shoulder mounted WW2 shooter panzer thing, the quake/UT fast firing version. Simply because i find it fun to attempt to judge distance and player movement to get the rocket to hit home.

What do you think is a good number of weapons to have?

its true if you have too many it can ruin the game (its harder to get familiar with for one), then again so can too little(gets old quick and too predictable). So id draw the line at 6-10.

What would you consider to be an essential weapon?

I suppose atleast one sub machine gun and one weapon which you could easily identify as the "heavy" weaponry (rockets, grenades, mounted guns)

what do you think of weapons with alternate fire?

Alternative fire is neat, it can be put to interesting uses (take UTs shock rifle, alt fire fires a shock ball, nail the flying ball with a primary fire lazer and its a shock combo explosion thing!! yay) but when it goes wrong is when a game has alternative on every weapon regardless of wether or not its any good. Simply because they implemented alt fire they make up one for every weapon (in sum if its no good, it dosent need to be there!)

What weapons should there be less of, or that are are over used?

Maybe its not so much that there should be less shotguns, rocket launchers and sub machine guns as much as if they are going to be there, make sure theres some additions of things that people havent seen before. or just plainly other weapons that are varied enough so your arsenal dosent look to much of the same.

Realistic or unrealistic weapons?

Depends on the setting really, i mean you couldnt put a lazer gun in call of duty and a bolt action rifle would like odd in Unreal. However what you can do is take for example your bolt action rifle and make a futuristic equivilent (in terms of fire power, reload time etc) for your futuristic game or vice versa (ie some sort of single shot lazer cannon etc) if you want to.

Thanks guys.
Barry: I'm just writing up a little design doc for a basic deathmatch game for me to work on. I'm mainly doing it for the design reasons though.

I'd love to see a deathmatch mode that had some cute and/or interesting devices that one could use, something that wasn't direct damage, but could be used to gain an advantage over the opponent.

I've played more of the 3 releases of UT than any other game (possibly even combined, which is very scary :) and two weapons stand out as quite inspired design to me:

* the shock rifle (my fave) with the ability (as Moonunit mentions) to combo the alternate-fire plasma ball to do high damage around the ball - a number of interesting tactics can be used with the shock - alt-fire as a decoy as though one is about to combo, but then use primary fire to target the opponent directly - or moving combos, where one deploys an alt-fire, move and burst it with the primary fire. (hope that makes sense to people reading this who haven't played UT)

* shield gun (aka impact hammer in the original UT) - can be used as a melee weapon, to protect yourself from incoming projectiles, to take shield from falling damage, and can be charged up to use to attain greater heights with jumps. Some of the best players use this in quite remarkable ways - getting to places one really would not have imagined possible. With the impact hammer, it was even possible to disarm rockets or redeemers (mini nukes) if you timed it right.

These are IMHO the two best examples of alt-fire. Giving the player more gameplay elements to use is a great thing!

I remember my old UT clan had a trick for the map FACE. One of our offence would run in and grab the enemy flag. He would either have the redeemer, or grab the opposing teams redeemer just before grabbing the flag. Then he would teleport to the top of the tower, jump of the front, and about halfway down to the next level, fir the redeemer point blank at the tower. Most of the time, this would result in the enemy's flag being blown all the way across the map and right into our own base for a quick and easy score :)

Another cool thing in UT was if you were 1v1'ing an opponent and he was trying to hit you with shock rifle combo, just continuously do primary fire at his gun barrel, he hits alt-fire, you hit his ball, and he gets a huge plasma explosion right in the face which usually was insta kill.

Generally, i think the weapons you have, and wether they work well can really depend on the level design. Rockets aren't so useful if you're always firing at each other point blank etc. So i think your level design is as important as your variety of weapons...
CYer, Blitz

Doom 3's RL is probably a good example of the wrong weapon in the wrong levels. A large blast radius that throws you are used in thight cramped corridoors with no space to move?

Whats your favourite weapons/weapon type?
Sniper Rifles are a favourite, as are machine guns. Shotguns i've found are useful in Single player games, but not often in deathmatch, i've also never gotten on with rocket launchers.

What do you think is a good number of weapons to have?
Well, there are 10 number keys on a keyboard so i think this works best, any more and it gets complex, remember Blood II?

What would you consider to be an essential weapon?
Shotguns, Machine Guns and Rockets Launchers, after that you can throw in whatever, you'll find that most FPS's have these 3 elements

What do you think of weapons with alternate fire?
I like them, especially guns like UT's pulse rifle, and Half Life's Sub Machine Gun

What weapons should there be less of, or that are are over used?
I don't think any gun can be over done, as long as the format isn't used multiple times in the same game.
Unless ,of course, you're making bigger versions

Realistic or unrealistic weapons?
Well unrealistic weapons are fine, but it's nice to have a bit description atatched with some silly made up science to explain why they work

Whats your favourite weapons/weapon type?
I like most weapons the shotgun is great for close range damage and aerial combat (you would be surprised how much this happens). Rifles from fully auto to snipers are great for distance. But my favourite has to be the Rocket launcher because in the end it?s just the most fun to use. Have you ever played pong with an enemy solider in TFC? Now that was fun.

What do you think is a good number of weapons to have?
It depends does the player have access to all of them like Quake or does he only have access to a few like Counter strike. If it?s A then I would say around 8 -10 and a few grenades. If it?s B then go mad. If the player has gain access to them in some other way then just picking them up I.E purchasing them or maybe even unlocking them with kills etc they should have access to a whole heap but be limited to how many they can use at once like counter strike.

What would you consider to be an essential weapon?
The close ranged weapon, or a long ranged weapon that never runs out of ammo. In times of ammo droughts it?s the weapon we all fall back on.

What do you think of weapons with alternate fire?
The more things you can do with a single weapon the better chance you have that the player is going to like that weapon. I always liked alternate fire. Means I have to change guns less.

What weapons should there be less of, or that are over used?
That really depends on the game and where its set In my opinion there are never to many guns if you make each gun different allowing each person the ability to fight in different ways. Mind you every one has a bane. Mine are grenades and sniper rifles. They get me every time so would I like less of them not really that would be no fun.

Realistic or unrealistic weapons?
Again that depends on the game. If I?m playing BF1942 I want realistic. If I am Playing Quake3 I want unrealistic. I like both games but for different reasons. For instance I wouldn?t want to see the rocket launcher from Quake in BF. Nor would I want to see the sniper rifle in quake 3. Both games have a different tempo or beat. Quake 3 with its unrealistic weapon selection has a very fast Tempo while BF with its WWII arsenal is a bit mellower but never the less exciting to play.

Any advice would be appreciated...

That depends on you really. Good chance either way.

For instance at Epic you have Cliff Bleszinski (lead designer) who is an ideas man, but has no clue when it comes to programming, and then you have Steve Polge (project leader) who makes the most of the design decisions, and is godlike a programmer.

Programmers are usually better at knowing what can be done at a minimal risk, while designers understand what makes a game fun.

I would not even bother writing ideas down until you have had a year or two experience in the industry. I'm sure that experience will radically change your perception of game design.

There are some places locally where you can get your foot in the door to becoming a game designer by putting in the hours as a game tester/QA person. However, there are places where QA jobs will only be just that.

There are a few posts somewhere in the jobs discussion area about game design jobs (I'll leave that for you or someone else to search and post about here because I'm on here for a limited time while my internet connection at home isn't working)..

Thanks for both of your replies.

:)

I studied cert 3 in animation at tafe, got a scholarship to qantm in 2001, did some amature concept art for certain friend's projects here and there. Then one day I sent a pic I did to a friend at Fuzzyeyes just to show him, didnt realise he was working. Next thing he's saying the art lead wants me to come in that thursday, I went in, started as a concept artist the following monday. Bout 6 months later I was made Game Designer and have been now for over a year.

I have no code experience, I refer to the Fuzz Tech Director and other coders to solidify my ideas. Code and Scripting knowledge very much helps, I'm looking to learn as much as I can on scripting as I can, but the most important thing I find is logical thinking and empathy. You can jump in with ideas easy, it's so very easy to come up with a concept and ideas that will sell, but wether you can get them into the project with the team and the time you have is another matter.

My major strength at Fuzz is the fact that I can work and talk with both coders and artists, understand their perspectives and relate them to each other, I do a lot of leg work. I'm still very much inexperienced and it shows sometimes, I also desperately need help, I'm also the only GD the company has, but the fact that I can ustilise the creativity and skills of all of the team members greatly helps the project.

So basically what Im saying is I think there are ways in regardless of your history or skills. The larger companies tend to catagorize people a little more and have like set templates for employment but I think that limits them greatly. It depends on how set you are on getting into a particuar place I guess, you'll have to see what they ask for.

As for the structure of the docs, go on like gamedev and gamasutra and DL some of the document templates. The prob with these is that they're generalized and you'll have to do some thinking to bend them towards your specific game type.

yeah 1st step is to get your foot in the door most cases its for a QA job that way you can gain the industry experience most companies want. Volunteer if you have too, i've just recently volunteered for fuzzy eyes to do some QA work on thier latest game, I loved it and had so much fun, it was so good to get a taste of what i want to be doin. But the greatest asset was that I was able to gain some expeirence for it. I want to get into Game Design as well, so i've been drawing some design briefs and documents and tried my hand in some concept art. so try and look for QA jobs and make your portfolio show that you are really keen and eager.

BTW Jackydablunt you wouldnt happen to be daniel? I was one of the testers who stayed for a week.

Heeyy Hoyo Antz, yeah that's me, thanks for the testing and stuff you guys did it was great, I'm just sorry the whole thing wasn't organised as well as it could've been, and the builds at the time weren't as stable as we hoped, we're just not as experienced as a company yrt. I'm glad you enjoyed it though and I'm glad it helped you devise a path. What we got from you guys helped out a lot, and round two will be comming soon. Thanks again.

[url="http://www.erasmatazz.com/library/Game%20Design/The_Education_of_a_Game…"]Chris Crawford's advice[/url] (his site also has a lot of older theory and articles (1982 [url="http://www.erasmatazz.com/Library.html"]AoCGD[/url] anyone?).

[url="http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php3?date=2005-04-04"]Geoff Zatkin[/url] - "in my 8+ years as a professional game designer, not once has any boss of mine ever asked me for an idea for a new game. Not once." :)

Heya Daniel, dw about the unorganisation, it was still fun and learnt alot about QA, you guys are doin a great job with HDHG, cant wait for round 2 and to crash the game again lol. Got an email from amanda today asking for a resume, so i'll see how it goes. thanx again daniel

great articles mcdrewski esp Chris Crawfords advice.