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An Uncanny Valley Example

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Submitted by souri on
Forum

Wow, I just saw this from Joystiq.com and I thought I'd post it here so you guys can check it out. Like what was written in those articles, this video seems to be a perfect example of the "Uncanny Valley".

http://www.collisiondetection.net/mt/archives/2006/05/ps3_games_plung.h…
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/18/heavy-rain-in-the-uncanny-valley/
http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/3745 (the video in question)

The CGI they link to is apparently a trailer for an upcoming PS3 game called Heavy Rain (sequel to Fahrenheit: Indigo Prophecy). Although there's obviously some great effort in the art direction, lip synching, with motion capture animation and all that, it all comes undone because the female is just... damn freaky looking. And I don't know where I can pinpoint where it all came apart. If you seperate and assess all the parts that went into this animation (the model, the lip synching, texturing etc) seperately, they're each not really that bad. Perhaps its just missing the culmination of many, many small subtleties/imperfections of human facial features and expressions that real faces exhibit.

I think we'll be seeing more Uncanny Valley characters now that artists are given more and more polygons/textures to throw at characters. Anyone see the characters in Metal Gear Solid 4? They were awesome. Stylised is the way to go!

Submitted by Makk on Fri, 19/05/06 - 10:52 PMPermalink

Oh dear god! That is one screwed up mouth/jawline.
Please stick to standard proportions and rules THEN tweak in the little imperfections.

Submitted by J I Styles on Fri, 19/05/06 - 11:27 PMPermalink

not a bad tech demo... pity it's only 3/4 there on the animation side.

The lady's neutral expression is fine - model and texture absolutely fine (not fantasticly great, but by no means bad). But BAD BAD BAD lip synch and blend shapes... I really hope that's because they where forced to do it with bones instead of morphs, just so they have an excuse and not because the artist thought it looked good as is.

Another game this reminds me of is magna carta -- cinematics are very pretty, good models/texturing/lighting/etc... horrendous animation. Destroys the impression of all that good work by just shattering your suspense of disbelief.

As a general rule of thumb, I've always had it drilled into me that if you're going to have a project with 100% quality in all departments but one, then it's better to take a whole project 75% of the way consistently instead.

Submitted by parka on Sat, 20/05/06 - 11:50 AMPermalink

I liked it... lip synching aside. I thought THAT was bad. First thing I noticed... but yeah, I liked it. I thought she looked fine. Her mouth was a bit big, but everything worked expression wise.
So yeh, I like that.
-Parka

Submitted by PeterDavis on Wed, 07/06/06 - 2:00 AMPermalink

there are parts when the mouth blendshapes, or bones, or however they did it, look fantastic. mostly in the close up angry shots. apart from that, its teh eye acting and really good body language that sold me. But yeah, they really should have nailed that mouth animation first though.

I dont think this is an example of Uncanny Valley though....maybe you need to be outside the industry to be creeped out?

Submitted by PeterDavis on Wed, 21/06/06 - 12:48 AMPermalink

the Wii is better off being underpowered so they can focus on innovating with what theyve got, and stand out from the competition more than they already have.

Submitted by Jason on Wed, 21/06/06 - 2:34 AMPermalink

Souri that article is spot on. Photorealism really isnt that important. When you think about what is more universal, really simplicity is king.

Emoticons for example, a simple :) can apply to any person in the world, regardless of gender, race, sexuality etc. Whereas if emoticons became more detailed, they would loose their universal appeal.

Oh and this is a bit off topic, but I was taught theory like this in an art degree at a university, not a vocational tafe. Just an example of the difference between uni and tafe. A lot of people think uni is useless, but it really does broaden your theoretical understanding of the art/world and how the two are interpreted and interact. Which ultimately develops your critical thinking and decision making when creating art.

Submitted by vivin on Wed, 21/06/06 - 2:49 AMPermalink

I believe their was a post over at cgtalk.com about that animation. A person who worked on the clip said it was mostly motion capture and the person who acturally did the motion capture had a big/weird mouth like in the tech demo, Also the audio was abit off, which gave the bad lip synching. Animation aside, the models and such are really pretty good.

Submitted by kingofdaveness on Fri, 23/03/07 - 10:13 PMPermalink

Ultimately photorealism costs a lot, lot more money- money that could be spent on making the game fun. Gimme something like serious sam anyday- lots of fun, a bit dodgy in the art stakes

Submitted by souri on Thu, 21/08/08 - 3:03 PMPermalink

They showed the new trailer for Heavy Rain at GCDC 2008, and boy, what a difference a couple of years makes, eh :D I've put a pic of the uncanny valley'd female protagonist from 2006 above what she looks like now.

Posted by souri on
Forum

Wow, I just saw this from Joystiq.com and I thought I'd post it here so you guys can check it out. Like what was written in those articles, this video seems to be a perfect example of the "Uncanny Valley".

http://www.collisiondetection.net/mt/archives/2006/05/ps3_games_plung.h…
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/18/heavy-rain-in-the-uncanny-valley/
http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/3745 (the video in question)

The CGI they link to is apparently a trailer for an upcoming PS3 game called Heavy Rain (sequel to Fahrenheit: Indigo Prophecy). Although there's obviously some great effort in the art direction, lip synching, with motion capture animation and all that, it all comes undone because the female is just... damn freaky looking. And I don't know where I can pinpoint where it all came apart. If you seperate and assess all the parts that went into this animation (the model, the lip synching, texturing etc) seperately, they're each not really that bad. Perhaps its just missing the culmination of many, many small subtleties/imperfections of human facial features and expressions that real faces exhibit.

I think we'll be seeing more Uncanny Valley characters now that artists are given more and more polygons/textures to throw at characters. Anyone see the characters in Metal Gear Solid 4? They were awesome. Stylised is the way to go!


Submitted by Makk on Fri, 19/05/06 - 10:52 PMPermalink

Oh dear god! That is one screwed up mouth/jawline.
Please stick to standard proportions and rules THEN tweak in the little imperfections.

Submitted by J I Styles on Fri, 19/05/06 - 11:27 PMPermalink

not a bad tech demo... pity it's only 3/4 there on the animation side.

The lady's neutral expression is fine - model and texture absolutely fine (not fantasticly great, but by no means bad). But BAD BAD BAD lip synch and blend shapes... I really hope that's because they where forced to do it with bones instead of morphs, just so they have an excuse and not because the artist thought it looked good as is.

Another game this reminds me of is magna carta -- cinematics are very pretty, good models/texturing/lighting/etc... horrendous animation. Destroys the impression of all that good work by just shattering your suspense of disbelief.

As a general rule of thumb, I've always had it drilled into me that if you're going to have a project with 100% quality in all departments but one, then it's better to take a whole project 75% of the way consistently instead.

Submitted by parka on Sat, 20/05/06 - 11:50 AMPermalink

I liked it... lip synching aside. I thought THAT was bad. First thing I noticed... but yeah, I liked it. I thought she looked fine. Her mouth was a bit big, but everything worked expression wise.
So yeh, I like that.
-Parka

Submitted by PeterDavis on Wed, 07/06/06 - 2:00 AMPermalink

there are parts when the mouth blendshapes, or bones, or however they did it, look fantastic. mostly in the close up angry shots. apart from that, its teh eye acting and really good body language that sold me. But yeah, they really should have nailed that mouth animation first though.

I dont think this is an example of Uncanny Valley though....maybe you need to be outside the industry to be creeped out?

Submitted by PeterDavis on Wed, 21/06/06 - 12:48 AMPermalink

the Wii is better off being underpowered so they can focus on innovating with what theyve got, and stand out from the competition more than they already have.

Submitted by Jason on Wed, 21/06/06 - 2:34 AMPermalink

Souri that article is spot on. Photorealism really isnt that important. When you think about what is more universal, really simplicity is king.

Emoticons for example, a simple :) can apply to any person in the world, regardless of gender, race, sexuality etc. Whereas if emoticons became more detailed, they would loose their universal appeal.

Oh and this is a bit off topic, but I was taught theory like this in an art degree at a university, not a vocational tafe. Just an example of the difference between uni and tafe. A lot of people think uni is useless, but it really does broaden your theoretical understanding of the art/world and how the two are interpreted and interact. Which ultimately develops your critical thinking and decision making when creating art.

Submitted by vivin on Wed, 21/06/06 - 2:49 AMPermalink

I believe their was a post over at cgtalk.com about that animation. A person who worked on the clip said it was mostly motion capture and the person who acturally did the motion capture had a big/weird mouth like in the tech demo, Also the audio was abit off, which gave the bad lip synching. Animation aside, the models and such are really pretty good.

Submitted by kingofdaveness on Fri, 23/03/07 - 10:13 PMPermalink

Ultimately photorealism costs a lot, lot more money- money that could be spent on making the game fun. Gimme something like serious sam anyday- lots of fun, a bit dodgy in the art stakes

Submitted by souri on Thu, 21/08/08 - 3:03 PMPermalink

They showed the new trailer for Heavy Rain at GCDC 2008, and boy, what a difference a couple of years makes, eh :D I've put a pic of the uncanny valley'd female protagonist from 2006 above what she looks like now.