Sumea Mod Ideas

A few thoughts from an online gaming addict (though I've never played Enimy Territory):

quote:- Futuristic setting

Probably the easiest and most popular setting to work with for the engine, good choice.

quote:- A class based, team orientated multiplayer game with numerous objectives per map, similar to Enemy Territory. It's similar to the assault mode in Unreal Tournament 2004, but with a lot more depth. One team attacks, the other team defends.

I think the game would be much more dynamic and exciting for both teams if it were designed as an opposing assault so both teams are required to attack and defend. Team Fortress has some maps of this style, you basically start with half the map each and must capture all the other teams territory to drive them off the map.

quote:- At least these classes (feel free to suggest more):
Soldier (different varieties of weapons), Medic, Ammunitions, Engineer, Covert...

Standard fare, not much to say. You could always lose the strict class system and let people pick and choose weapon loadouts and skills ala Tribes.

quote:- double jump capability, along with lying prone

What style of gameplay are you aiming for, fast and frantic, slow and calculated or somewhere in between? What will these abilities add to that style? I like them both but they seem to be in conflict in terms of gameplay.

quote:- Using the Unreal Tournament 2004 engine.

I've no experience with this engine but I hear it's great, good luck!

Perhaps the question that should be asked is "What will make our game different/better?". There have been plenty of class based games with assault modes before, why should people play this one instead?

edited after reading through all the blathering in the old long thread

It's only an idea, but if you want a 'hook' that's just that little bit different, why not brainstorm around I suggest using the wording in the backgound image 'Destroy Them My Robots'.

Here's the first thing from the top of my head based on that:

- classes are all actually different robots, with very different movement/abilities due to that (ie: scout/tank/repairbot etc.)
- RE-VOLT style (remember the radio controlled racing game?), we play with scale. perhaps 'my robots' are spawned by two huge humans playing it out over a tabletop/arena/whatever? would be an interesting and somewhat unique level design.

So, the last thing we need is more ideas I guess. Souri, how about we all brainstorm in this thread, then 'someone' (ie: the mods?) summarise them up into maybe four one-liner summaries, which we turn into a simple poll. sumeans vote and we all agree to make the result? I will help, programming or modelling if needed, although I'm a n00b with no real experience under my belt... :)

I'm personally more than happy to be the guy that collates all ideas in this thread into something for the 'creative lead' (I guess that's you Souri?[:p]) to review if you'd like. I'm a games n00b, but I've been writing and reviewing software docs for 6yrs professionally so I can guarantee the spelling will at least be ok. [:)] Give me a 'closing' date or deadline and I'll do it.
-d

Excellant, that would be great Mcdrewski.. It would be a great idea to post your notes at the Sumea Mod State thread, and update that post everytime something is concrete.

quote:"think the game would be much more dynamic and exciting for both teams if it were designed as an opposing assault so both teams are required to attack and defend. Team Fortress has some maps of this style, you basically start with half the map each and must capture all the other teams territory to drive them off the map."

Yeh, that's sort of what onslaught mode is in UT2k4, or capture and hold in a lot of other muliplayer FPS's (Battlefield 1942, Team Fortress etc). The thing about this mode is that it doesn't emphasise the importance of classes, since everyone can do the objective (capture and hold). When your team depends on, say an engineer, to complete certain objectives to push forward, then it really encourages team work and supporting each other or else you don't advance ahead. Anyway, that's really up to the level designer anyway if they want to build the map that way - that's fine, I'm all for different kinds of maps.

quote:Standard fare, not much to say. You could always lose the strict class system and let people pick and choose weapon loadouts and skills ala Tribes.

I think that being able to choose your preferred class is better than having to pick up the same weapon + skills each and every time after you die just to choose your class. I remember playing the demo for Tribes: Vengeance which did this, and it's something I wish I could skip doing all the time... I dunno, what does everyone else think. If one thing that Enemy Territory has shown me, your spawn point isn't a safe haven, so having your desired weapon right off the bat is much better to start off with.

quote:What style of gameplay are you aiming for, fast and frantic, slow and calculated or somewhere in between? What will these abilities add to that style? I like them both but they seem to be in conflict in terms of gameplay.

Probably somewhere inbetween. Not a hopping jumping twitch frag fest like Quake 3, but definately not Rogue Spear. You should really check out Enemy Territory. Being prone helps for a defensive kind of play, and if you have a defensive weapon, say a high powered machine gun that you can only use while prone, it helps a lot in defending areas. Double jump - well, double jump is a standard in UT2k3/4, and makes for an extra ability while in combat or getting around the map.

quote:Perhaps the question that should be asked is "What will make our game different/better?". There have been plenty of class based games with assault modes before, why should people play this one instead?

Exactly, that's what this thread is for! I just put down the basics of what I want to see (different classes (such as medic, engineer etc)), maps with assault-style objectives, futuristic theme, and I'm hoping everyone can put down some great ideas to push it further and make it extraordinary.

Maybe there should be a covert class that can cloak + paint target areas for an arial assault (like starcraft), or maybe one of the soldier classes are the only class that can drive vehicles (so the team depends on them to escort vehicles/drive vehicles to the objective), or another soldier class that can fire mortars/shoot controllable missiles, or a general class that has an overhead view of the map and provide intel for the team/drop medic paks/ammo/set traps.. I dunno, just ideas. I'm sure a lot of you can come up with new ideas that give a different kind of playing style.

I was thinking about this earlier whilst trying to come up with ideas for conocepts.
What sort of art direction do we want to have? As in what sort of futuristic setting do we want?
Will it be a dark/industrial type setting?
A post-apocaliptic setting?
A retro futuristic setting? -my fav choice
Or something else completly?

Also for an idea, what about making the mod a mix of ut/battlefield. It could have the action/pace of UT and the larger setting of a game like Battlefield 1942

I agree, the setting will let us tie down a lot of concrete decisions.

Souri, I'm sure you've got an idea at the moment. it would be great to either see the 'inspiration' art, or I guess get the following directions from the group:

'brand-new' or 'lived-in'? (ie: gleaming bright armor vs greasy and dirty fatigues)
'real-world' or 'meta-world'? (ie: earth gravity and limited ammo vs uber weaponry and infinite jump ability)

I think something relatively easy would be Makk's retro-futuristic sort of setting. Perhaps steampunk, but clean, and not scavenged from the ruins of another civilisation. (remember that as texture artists, the grittier we go, the more work we'll have to do!)

Re: Map objectives

You could have some control points which gave more advantages than just being another step closer to winning. Holding a control point might give your team advantages such as better ammunition and weapon supplies, improved energy armour or the use of a special vehicle.

You could tie this in to your classes as well, once an enemy control point is captured an Engineer might be required to activate the special bonus for your team.

Good idea Barry. Perhaps someone in something like a radar tower would allow enemies to show up on each player's HUD? Perhaps a scout (spy? computer operator?) could 'convert' a radar tower from one team to the other, making it a useful thing to defend, but not absolutely critical.

I can imagine some serious booby-trapping taking place, making a scout and an engineer (soldier? sapper?) a formidable team to take one of the radar towers, convert it to your team and then booby-trap the place against the opposition...

Logically, that implies "arena" (ie: combat occurs in battle-dome or specially constructed fields) field or urban play. it kind of rules out spaceship/fully indoor play. Ideas people! :)

I love all-of-the-above futuristic settings, really. I'm happy for the level designer to choose what kind of theme they want to suit their maps objectives/scenario. Most of the content is going to be done with the level designs, and I'll be just content to just say "build whatever you please, just make it futuristic". Just as there are many varied kinds of map designs and visuals for, say, Counterstrike etc, it shouldn't really need to be confined to one kind of specific setting. It's sort of like saying "we gotta have a common theme to our maps - make them all modern day and based in Iraq/a desert theme".. Keeping it modern day makes sense, but choosing a specific setting, like making them all desert is a bit too restrictive.

If there is a consistency that needs to be kept, it really has to be with the character designs so they have the same similar look and designs across the team.

I'm all for different kinds of map objectives, attack + defend for both teams, large battlefield maps etc.. they'll just be up to whoever is planning to build them. The map I'm working on is a rather more street level/close combat kind of map with choke points so that battles can be more focused around certain areas. The thing with large maps is that you end up fighting dots (Onslaught, Tribes, Battlefield 1942 etc), close combat weapons become useless, so vehicles are usually used to compensate for long distance combat, but variety in maps is good, so large maps, small maps, different kinds of objectives etc, it's all good.

I really want to get the ball rolling regarding character classes so we can do a call for concept art.

Soldier (different weapons in this class)
Covert Ops
Engineer
Ammunition guy
Medic
General ?

We can discuss their innovative attributes, skills, and weapons later, but do you think that should cover it? Is there another new class that could be provide a totally new way of playing the game?

btw, that radar tower idea is *awesome*. I love the idea of side-objectives that aren't necessary to complete the map but really help out your team. Good stuff!

Yeah, I like the idea of bonuses for capturing certian areas on the map :)
Maybe pilot? His strenght would be tha missile and gun attacks from aircraft would do more damage, also maybe able to call in airstrikes. Meh, cant really think of anything else at the moment.
Though maybe the ammo guy could be combined with the medic to make some sort of supplies class :/

quote:Originally posted by Souri

...Just as there are many varied kinds of map designs and visuals for, say, Counterstrike etc, it shouldn't really need to be confined to one kind of specific setting. It's sort of like saying "we gotta have a common theme to our maps - make them all modern day and based in Iraq/a desert theme".. Keeping it modern day makes sense, but choosing a specific setting, like making them all desert is a bit too restrictive.

I know what you're saying, but Counter-strike has a consistent premise/world view. ie: it's a real world with 'real' weapons and props (well, mostly).

"The future" could be William Gibson/The Matrix/Ghost in the Shell where (all action occurs in a computer controlled netherworld), or 5th element/Star Trek (it's fast forward from today, roughly, but rooted in some form of realistic universe), or (shudder) Blade/Underworld (high-tech where we feel like it with heavy doses of mythology)

I think that these decisions will really shape the game. for example, in one we have the 'Infantry/Cavalry/Engineer/Medic/Comms/Intelligence' sort of classes, and in the other we might have 'Empath/Hacker/Cyborg/Wetware Surgeon' etc.

It's all the Future :)

I like the Akira/Ghost in the Shell futuristic look. Densley populated old concrete urban jungles mixed with new huge skyrises, lotsa neon, lights and billboards, and plenty of fantastic futuristic architecture, vehicles and contraptions. I don't know what style you'd classify that as, but it's the sort of look I'm hoping to go for in my map (which is urban based). I like pretty much a lot of the concepts in the reference thread if you've checked them out. There are some really creative stuff in there that would be a seriously visually appealing masterpiece if someone took some of the inspiration and translated it into a map. If you want cyber/hack kind of attributes related to the game, I'm fine with that also. Tell me what you guys like and post some examples.

Makk, can you expand on retro-futuristic? Is that sort of like the designs in Phantom Menace? Or futuristic designs from the 60's?

Ammo guy combined with the medic as a supply class would make things pretty unbalanced because that would make him too powerful (unlimited ammo, and could heal himself). I know in Enemy Territory, they've given the medic class much less ammo to even things up. Anyway, I've got a tonne of ideas for the classes which I will type up later if anyone is interested. I've also been working on that map - it's starting to look pretty good. I want to at least have the entire floor placed first before I upload for you guys to look at.

quote:Originally posted by Souri

I like the Akira/Ghost in the Shell futuristic look. Densley populated old concrete urban jungles mixed with new huge skyrises, lotsa neon, lights and billboards, and plenty of fantastic futuristic architecture, vehicles and contraptions.[/br]

...so future, but not too far in the future, and with equipment and vehicles that are evolutions of current equipment rather than something completely unknown. I think that's quite managable, since we don't necessarily need a strong art lead to get consistency in tech (think all the myriad race details in the LotR movies), and I like the idea a lot.

quote:
Anyway, I've got a tonne of ideas for the classes which I will type up later if anyone is interested.

I'd love to see them actually Souri...

Perhaps we should have an old fashioned brainstorming irc session some night. No idea is too strange, no negative comments at all, just freeform thoughts and ideas. Then we can go through those and try to come up with a one paragraph summary of the mod.

Perhaps we should take a note from Deus Ex on objectives: have a variety of ways to complete them, not just several objectives to win the map.
eg: one of your objectives might be to take out the radar tower, but to do this you can (A) blow it up with heavy tanks etc from the outside, (B) get an Demo guy in and plat explozives at weak points, or (C) geta Covert Ops guy to hack the mainframe and shut it down.

further to this you could have 'secondary effects' that you dont have to do to complete the mission.
eg: you can attempt to hack the power grid to shut down the auto defenses for a limited amount of time, making it easyier to complete the objective.
combine a lot of these and suddenly HOW you complete the objective becomes more stategic than the "run in shooting, reach objective, repeat" or UT's Assult mode.
And if you wanted to get really strategic you could make some of the secondary effects need team work to work their best. eg: the power grid terminal might be to far away from the main objective to use on your own, so you shut it down and then your teammates on the other side of the building proceed to the objective.

another idea:

Aerial Assault Class
Jetpack trooper with medium level assault gun. used for quick strike tactics.
has no other benefits (cant hack, cant lay bombs, whatever) so that it doesn?t overpower. perhaps moves slower on foot.
cool idea (maybe):
when shot with rockets or something they blow up causing splash damage
when shot down in the air with normal weapons you spiral towards the ground, however you still have limited control over where you spiral to so you can attempt to crash and explode on enemy troops kamikaze style!

just trying to come up with a unique class beyond the stock standard GI, demo, medic, etc. i can imagine defending an outpost and seeing a whole 'squadron' of aerial troops rise up over the hill side! it could be a strategy: send in a bunch of suicide aerial troops to attempt to take out as many opponents as possible - and when they get slaughtered by the AA guns then can then attempt to dive bomb them and disorientate them enough for the ground troops to move in!

Excellant ideas in the post on different kinds of ways to complete objectives. Mcdrewski is gonna have to make a "ideas for mappers" list and put those on there, along with the radar map idea, side objectives ideas etc I had a great idea for objectives

Aerial Assault Class sounds good, but I think letting people choose to fly as a class may affect the way some maps are played where the mapper intended it to be played on foot. Perhaps we can make a jetpack vehicle object in UT2k4 that lets you fly by pressing the space bar, and lowers you via gravity like Tribes, so the mapper can choose if he/she wants players to be able to fly on their map and on which parts/the entire map. What do you think? The class would be great on large open maps, but on street level combat maps like mine, they would be a problem.

I was thinking of a mortar class, but I think that may be the same situation as above. Perhaps we could have a mortar vehicle so the mapper can choose which parts of the map where they can mortar to. Will have to use a modified version of the SPMA vehicle in UT2k4.

Some ideas on the classes - (some are standard fare on classes):

- Foot Soldier (all have a standard machine gun but with an extra primary weapon)
-- 1. Rocket Launcher type gun with powerful splash, but long reloading times and limited ammo (say 6 shots?) (great offensive weapon)
-- 2. Ground machine gun - can only be used while prone (great defensive weapon)
-- 3. Controllable missile - 6 shots? Sorta like the UT2k4 redeemer where you have a camera view of the missile and can control it. Small blast radius.
-- 4. Flamethrower (offensive/defensive weapon)
-- 5. Maybe the soldier class are the only class that can drive special vehicles to their objectives (for the maps that have that objective)? (gives this class something to do, objective wise)

- Aerial Assault Specialist
---1. see above comments

- Covert Operations (Choice of two weapons? Standard Machine gun, and Sniper rifle? So we don't need a sniper class)
--- 1. Can cloak himself for a short amount of time? (in UT2k4, there's a shader that already lets players do that if they get enough adrenaline or something. You can still spot them if you look carefully)
--- 2. Can disguise himself as an enemy by killing one? Only enemy coverts can spot him?
--- 3. Small dynamite that can destroy enemy side-objectives quickly? Gives this class something to do objective-wise and help out the team
--- 4. Can hack for side-objectives?
--- 5. Spot enemy mines
--- 6. Paint a target for a nuclear strike? Bigger radius than Supply Tech airstrike, but with only one bomb

- Supply Tech
--- 1. Can drop ammunition pacs
--- 2. Can call an airstrike - uses a special gun to call an aistrike which causes a small radius of bombing. Probably 5 bomb blasts at random within 30 seconds (you know the weapon in UT2k4 which calls for an airstrike? You have to aim, then charge for a few seconds to target a spot. Maybe limit this to 4 airstrikes a life?)

- Demolitions/Engineer
--- 1. Build turrets, barricades, build/repair objectives/vehicles
--- 2. Dynamite enemy barricades, side objectives.. Dynamite has a 20 second fuse, giving the enemy Engineer a chance to defuse.
--- 3. Plant mines that the enemy can't see (modify the spider mines in UT2k4, so they don't automatically run towards the enemy? Maybe planting mines could involve using a special gun and charging up then shooting to plant? Limit the number of mines to 20 per team?)
--- 4. Defuse dynamite and enemy mines spotted by coverts

- Medic (standard machine gun with much more limited bullets)
--- 1. Drop medic pacs
--- 2. Revive fallen teammate
--- 3. when medic is prone, he has a small healing radius, so if any player (including enemy) enters that radius, their health goes up (not sure if this is possible in UT2k4, porogrammer will have to look it up)

Extra vehicles?:

Jetpack - for flight
Mortar vehicle - for mortaring the enemy
Special vehicle - for driving in objectives
Manned Turrets - which engineers can build/repair. Players can enter them
Remote manned turrets? - like in UT2k4 assault RobotFactory..
Auto Turrets? - They're a bit cheesy, maybe limit one per engineer.

Any other classes you can come up with? To be honest, I think Team Fortress has too many classes. If someone comes up with a new class, maybe add their functionality to a class above? Or supply it through vehicles? Anyway, comments please.. Hopefully we can get the classes sorted for some concept art then modelling/texturing etc work to begin.. I have the basic setup of my map nearly done so will upload that for you to check out.

i guess if you're worried about some classes not suiting certain maps we could always disable them on thoses maps. just as you would dissable different vehicles on certain maps that dont suit them.

i like flamethrowers. it might be cool to have a specific flame thrower class. a heavy armered defence class like star craft firebats. but like you said, you might end up having too many classes. could always make them the demo/engineer class. most demo/engine classes in other games are farily weak boring in combat i my oppinion (though they're not for that specifically sooner or latter you will end up in combat).
bulking them up with heavy armour and flame throwers as their primary weapon would make them unquie. lets see:
> heavy armour
> primary weapon: flamethrower - short range wide spreading defensive weapon
> secondary weapon:
proxy mines
or rocket launcher
or auto turret
or etc.
> repare vehicles, dissarm, normal enginer stuff
> slower movement and single jump only to offset weapon power and armour
> cant drive some vehicles or use maned turrets, etc
> explodes when dies via explosive weapon (imagin a chain of these guys exploding one after another cos they stood to close togther :D)
> powerful self-distruct function aswell?

just trying to make the support style classes a little more interestin to use. i think each class should have some awsome ability/abilities so that there is no class that is heaps better than another and you want to use all of them.

hmm, how's this for covert ops:
> no armour
> quick, silent movement
> cloak ability or disguise ability (i think one eliminates the need for the other)
> heat detect view option (sees heat shadded world to spot enemies.
pros: could use to spot hidden enemies, enemies behind walls, and cloaked enemies.
cons: cant tell friend from foe, players can stand near 'hot' areas of the map to hide (would make interesting map design ideas i guess)
> primary weapon: long range sniper rifle (has to be long range cos some games have sniper rifles with stupidly sort ranges and they are less fun)
> secondary weapon: ??
> * melee weapon: powerful energy knife or something for silent one-hit covert kills
> hacking ability

*every class should have a weapon that dosnt require ammo - perhaps the medic has an unlimited ammo gun (although not very strong) to offset his otherwise very weak character a bit.

[edited to mention the 'engineer' class component! D'oh!]

I really like the idea of a smaller number of more combined classes, to allow smaller teams to really play. Your idea of the engineer/demolitions being able to carry a heavy weapon is cool too, I like it.

So, taking that to it's logical extreme, how about combining it to three simple classes.

Heavy weapons/engineer/demolitions/supply : Slow and heavily armoured with the ability to carry extra machine gun ammo, but no other 'special' weapon ammo. Maybe can carry 'smart' missiles which can home in on a painted target. Whatever the case, the heavy weapon has to be kick-arse, and the armour thick so that people choose to play this class.

Covert/hacker/medic : Fast and lightly armoured, and their rifle/machinegun includes a sniper scope (it still 'kicks' when fired, so fully auto sniping isn't practical). Can disarm mines and armed demolition packs. Can assasinate characters if striking from behind and silently. Can cloak or diguise oneself. Can call in airstrikes or 'guide' heavy weapons' "smart" missiles to a target. For 'leet headshot kiddies' who love twitch gaming and those of us that loved the 'thief' series.

Infantry : Fast and moderately armoured. Can carry a secondary heavy weapon but has limited ammo. Can drive vehicles, including a troop carrier to move the heavy weaps around. Can wear jump-packs. Can fire mortars/artillery. Mid-way between the heavy and covert, but dependent on both.

In fact, while I'm writing this I'm starting to get a slightly Warhammer 40k feel to the classes, so we should be careful to not go in that direction too far.

So, three classes would make the programming and art a lot easier, but would let some less experienced modellers build lots of weapons and props, or lots of different 'team' armour styles based on a few simple requirements. However, does that change the sort of vision you have there Souri?

If we playtest and find unevenness, we can always shift some abilities around with only three classes.

Hey, that's a damn excellant idea!! [:)] Definately will require playtesting to balance things, like you said, but those three classes should do it! I like how each class has the potential for a vital role in mission objectives, if the level designer builds it that way, and they're all important for supporting each other.

Although I think the infantry class should be Heavy weapons, Slow and heavily armoured etc (so that this class is more of an offensive/defensive class), while the engineer/demolitions/supply class should be what you got for infantry (Fast and moderately armoured, lighter weapons) to discourage them from taking an offense/defensive role (camping/defense, providing attack support etc), and make their mission objectives more important - butletting them have a flamethrower would be cool. Plus it would be better if they were not the slowest class. Whaddya think.

Oh, and that heat detect view option to spot enemy cloaked coverts is an excellant idea.

Probably would suggest a standard handgun for all players (with the suggested unlimited ammo) too, and some grenades.

Just a quick suggestion, not sure how this would fit into the whole scheme of things, but ive always thought that a mounted class would be cool in a multiplayer, they would be similar to vehicles as they would be effective against infanrty but weak against air attacks. Making medic/ammo class mounted could work because it would explain their ability to carry large amounts of aid and let them move around the battlefield more quickly. i like the way things are working out though, its coming along well

hehehe, that is original. the only problem would be the practical limitations of their movement around maps. but if they are designed to be pretty much the same height and width as the largest foot chracter that wouldnt be a problem.
i think we should have mounts, even if they are only vehicles (which would mean we could mak them any size too)

combining everything into three classes is pretty cool too. dosnt allow for mach variety in models unless we do different teams each with different models (not just texture colours).

i guess the questions needed to be asked are:
how many people are willing to work on this?
how many want to do character modeling?
when do we want to have this finished by?

i dont know if these answeres are on another post somewhere (perhaps we should make a list of people and what they are willing to work on too)

quote:while the engineer/demolitions/supply class should be what you got for infantry (Fast and moderately armoured, lighter weapons) to discourage them from taking an offense/defensive role
i thought by making them heavily armoured and slow it would make them less effective in attack, though good for defence and close-quater combat. but maybe i'm just bias cos i like the idea of playing as a StarCraft like Firebat :). hmm, that brings up an interesting idea. perhaps you choose your class then the primary and secondary weapons. so their stats are the same and only weapons are diferent. then depending on your primary weapon you could have a different character model, which would allow for a greater variety of characters while keepsing the classes confined to 3. this would mean you cant drop/pickup weapons other weapons though. but i think the game would be better if the characters attributes meant more than the weapon they were carrying (so that you wouldn't want to pick up anothers weapon cos your haracter is better suited to the one you have). erm, hard to get accross what i'm trying to say here. :? oh well, back to gamasutra...

ok, sorry about all the eassy posts i've been making, but i just had a cool idea (well, i think it is anyway) fora level:

Mission Type:
Escort

Level Layout:
A large platform sits on rails at one end of the map. The rails wind accross the map to the far end. the rails is intersected by a series of closed gates. sugest junctions where the rails track splits in two to break up some of liner-ness.

Objectives:
The platform waits at each gate until it is opened, afterwhich it automatically moves to stop at the next. the Attacking team must open each gate in turn (no two gates should be the same or have exactly same means of opening them - though if there are several ways to open a gate then no combination should be the same), while the defending team must stop them from escorting the platform to the end of the level

Victory:
platform reaches end of track (attackers win)
time runs out (defenders win)

now, this is pretty standard and boring on its own, so here's...

The Twist:
The platform has on it an huge beast (like a dragon or something) sleeping on it. if the beast/platform takes to much damage it wakes p and wreaks havolk on the surounding area (taking out anyone not under cover), before settling down and returnig to sleep again.
because the platform automatically moves from one gate to the next quickly this will be devistating to both teams, so neither should want to wake it up lest everyone suffer the consiquences!
the map should be filled with small caves, etc (some that fit only one or two people in - kinda like hinding in the cubord) to when the beast wakes up everyone has to run away! run away! monty python style and find cover.
the gates should offter only a little cover, perhaps only in some objective rooms and defender spawn points (attackers would spawn at the previous gate).
players can ride the platform as it moves to the next gate for a quick first strike tactic (stading next to something no-one wants to shoot!)

this whole thing was just an idea i had trying to come up with something that involves mutual unspoken agreement between the teams. some twisted form of co-operation in a compedative invironment. dont shoot the dragon!

(I just had a full literary masterpiece of a post written and lost it. damn.)

quote:
Although I think the infantry class should be Heavy weapons, Slow and heavily armoured etc ...snip..., while the engineer/demolitions/supply class should be what you got for infantry ...snip... to discourage them from taking an offense/defensive role ...snip..., and make their mission objectives more important - butletting them have a flamethrower would be cool. Plus it would be better if they were not the slowest class. Whaddya think.

Sounds cool. My reasoning was that the 'real worldness' of supply classes has always been a problem for me (ie: roger wilco's "you pick up the ladder and put it in your pocket. Ouch."). Making them heavy and slow (with a huge space-marine-esque backpack) solved that for me, and then led on to carrying demolitions stuff also, and then onto an actual offense/defense role. Conundrum's "mounted" idea might solve that too, though.

I agree that this might mean that they're never used for their mission objectives, though, so I'm now not so convinced about my original idea.

quote:
Oh, and that heat detect view option to spot enemy cloaked coverts is an excellant idea.

Probably would suggest a standard handgun for all players (with the suggested unlimited ammo) too, and some grenades.

100% agreed on both points. like it. I've always wanted to see flash grenades put to good use in a game too...

Finally, in response to Livewire's comment about the limited scope for models, I think we can get around that by allowing different teams/tribes/races with different styles of armour. That way if we get lots of modellers we can have a veritable cornucopia of styles of armour. We can even leave it in the sumea 'activities' section and have the mod grow as it goes along through submissions later (2500 A.D samurai inspired culture anyone? Barbarian? Nazgul/Undead?). It also means that if we get only a few people doing the work we can still finish the mod before it REALLY gets to 2500 A.D. [:P]

quote:
The platform has on it an huge beast (like a dragon or something) sleeping on it. if the beast/platform takes to much damage it wakes p and wreaks havolk on the surounding area

I love the idea - although from a programmer's point of view it's a bit of a pain to have to code beast AI for just one map! :)

But hell, I haven't had a Godzilla-esque creature wreak havok on a game I'm in since SimCity :) I like it!

Not sure I can see it just 'going back to sleep', though... might have to have it wake and struggle against the bars then sleep again every few minutes anyway, then when it gets peeved it lays seige to the entire area with a flamethrower breath or something.

...as for unspoken agreement though, calling in an airstrike from the other side of the map, or using a cloaked 'suicide' covert op on the beast would be a pretty gnarly strategy :)

quote:Not sure I can see it just 'going back to sleep', though... might have to have it wake and struggle against the bars then sleep again every few minutes anyway, then when it gets peeved it lays seige to the entire area with a flamethrower breath or something.

as i say to my team on scootarama: pfft! dosn't have to make perfect sence. it's a game, as long as it's fun!
(granted scootarama is far more cartoony, but the principle is the same :) )

Blah! Too much to read at 8am! I kinda had an idea about classes / style and wasn't sure if something like this had been discussed.

What about keeping the future setting but looking at a way to make it more unique. Just thinking of how games like FF managed to do a future "setting". I was wondering about something where instead of the medic, explosive person, etc (or what ever they are) and doing something more... tribal? Instead of a medic (or keep it a medic) maybe look at making it more of a Medicine Man or such. Just thinking of a more techno twsit on the future.... explosive person could be more of a techno mage... Dunno.

i agree that we need to make it diferent. a lot of the motivation behind my ideas for classes is to change the existing stock standard classes and make them more interesting - or completely different. havnt thought about the visuals myself yet though. i figure i'll model whatever the concept artists come up with.

here's a few random things i thought up while bored at work
> if there is a medic class, perhaps they could have a short range 'link gun' type weapon. when fired at allies it heals them, and when fired at enemies it hurts them. could give it unlimited ammo to give more appeal to this otherwise weak class. hmm, wonder if you could then make it work like a chain effect - the beam hits one player then jumps to another nearby and so on. perhaps that would be a second function with limited ammo or charge.
> if there is no medic at all (as the sniper/covert class dosnt really suit medic duties) you could have a medic vehicle that you can drive around and all allies within a certain area of it heal or something.
> also, on the giant best thing, i agree it is a bit much to it's code AI for only one mission. what you could do is have some kind of energy ball that when shot to much sends a blast up into the air and firey plasma hell rains down on the surounding area like a meteor shower, and you only survive under cover. probably easyier to code but an inanimate glowing ball is not as fun as godzilla going psyce on your troops!

also, though i said it might be cool to have multiple ways to satisfy objectives, i think this might split up the action a bit and with fewer players it would be hard to defent several objective points at once. unless the ammount of objective points is altered depending on how many peole are playing. otherwise it might be better to just have one objective point for each objective, and focus more on secondary efects (eg, shut off power, etc) so they dont need to be defended but it would be a good idea to.

i thought id just add this as its been an idea of mine for a little while but couldnt be bothered actually doing it. the inspiration comes from that online res evil game that was supposed to come out, where you and a team of survivors battled to escape the city without being infected. but once you were infected you became a zombie and got to attack your former teammates. ill use livewires layout to explain it

Mission Type:
Conversion

Level Layout:
Large open levels to suit a number of teams roaming at any given time. Also, some confrontations between big teams will need to be possible.

The players are divided into as many teams of two that are possible and any extra will have to be by themselves, ie. 16 players 8 teams, 21 players 10 teams of 2 and 1 team of 1. All the teams start away from eachother as possible similar to the setup of a multiplayer strategy game.

Objectives:
These teams then move around the map to attack other teams. Once a player is killed they join the team which killed them and so on, they spawn close to that team. This should eventuate in two large teams fighting eachother.

To ensure that the games dont last for ever, when a team is eliminated the spawn time increases ( this would need to be tested to work out the best times) and when there are only two teams anyone who dies doesnt spawn again.

Victory:
The last team standing wins, with the original players given extra points. I think some more eleborate point scoring systems could be nutted out[:p]

its a very rough concept but i think it would be fun, it would be interesting to hear other peoples opinions[:)]

i think that's a very cool idea. the only problem i can see is people letting former team mates kill them as to re-join their team, spoiling the point of the game. but if that could somehow be discouraged (or encouraged to work for the team you are currently on) i cant see any problem with it.

i had another idea for a mission type to:

Mision Type:
Counter Op

Level Layout:
two teams start in very different locations and have sperate paths to a common goal area. along the path (which may branch for variety) are a series of objectives, gates, whatever that must be overcome.

Objective:
Make your way past the objectives and reach the goal area first.

Twists:
> team paths intersect. though team A cannot complete team B's objectives or use their paths, they may come to areas where their gates are side by side (perhaps each open gate has an energy shied that only lets the appropriate team through) - thus they can fight to hinder each other's progress. there should be constant places like this where the other team's path is visible.
> some objectives effect the other team. eg: team B completes an objective further down the path than team B, however this lowers a bridge on team B's path allowing them to bypass one or two objectives and catch up a bit.
eg 2: team A must complete several objectives to bypass a gate, however one of these objectives will help team B somehow, so you leave that one until last.

Obsticles
>since the teams are not in direct competition iwth each other (at least not in the normal way) teams would have to fight bots or auto defenses where they are not crossing paths with the other team.
>sugest counter-objectives such as team A must collect 10 glowy energy balls and store them, while team B must try and destroy 10 glowy energy balls. these sort of objectives would have to be at the start (or very close to) of the level so that no team can get their too early and have no competition.
>obsticales would require team work to overcome - essential as most of the game you are in the company of your team and only half the time fighting the other directly.
>if teams are evenly matched enough though they should be neck and neck most of the time, meaining that fences that can be shot though, etc. placed between them will allow for combat along the way even though they cant enter the other path at that location.

it's late and i'm tired. i think my idea needs a little more work before it's fully realised, but you get the gist of it.

nice idea, it would make for some interesting tactics as you could either attempt to focus on hindering the other team or go for speed and avoid confrontation. it would also be fun to design and build the scenarios.

i had thought of that problem as well, i guess it relies on people trying to play in the right spirit, but thats never certain. one possibility is basing the scoring on how many times you die (change teams), encouraging players to stay alive rather than dying on purpose

So should we do a call for character concept designs for those three classes now?