I'm not sure whether I should post this here, but I guess if its unwanted then one of the mods can remove it. And if I'm out of line then I'm sorry. I'm not meaning to take over or anything, I just want to help out the community.
Anyway, I've been mentioning the same sorts of things on a lot of people's entries and it seems it might be simpler just to do it in one big go. Perhaps if anyone else has any handy tips they could add them on.
* I think the first thing that I noticed when I started perusing this competition thread is the lack of general objectivity and critique in people's replys. Don't get me wrong, if you like someones work then you should tell them but don't be afraid to suggest ways that they could improve their work. Keep it friendly-like obviously, but be objective. If theres something clearly wrong or you have an idea how they could push their concept a little further, then tell them. A lot of you are still learning and this is the best way to get better.
* That leads us to the next issue - renders. The best way to show off a model is from a number of angles, front and side at least and any others that seem necessary to understand the geometry. Something that makes an untextured model easier to read is by adding a wireframe over the top. If you're using max, theres a trick to this:
1.Snapshot your model.
2.add a push modifyer of 0.3 or so. Just enough to stop the polys from rendering badly.
3.Set it to wire in the material editor.
4.Ideally, drop the wire thickness down to about 0.3-0.5 in advanced parametres.
* Reference material next. Everyone needs references for modelling and texturing, no matter how much experience they have. This is particularly important if you're somewhat new to this whole 3d thing. The best source around as far as I've seen is [url]www.fineart.sk[/url]. You should find some pictures there that'll help you nail those trickier proportions. The sight obviously contains a bit of necessary nudity.
Thats probably the main things people need to consider at this stage. Good luck with the competition. :)
That is by far the fastest way.
One more thing I forgot to add was. If you are using edit poly with no smoothing groups and you do a max render you will have a render with all the edges. To render is so that you only have the edges you want use a smooth modifier and turn on auto smooth with a threshold on 0.
I'll get around to it eventually.
Interesting technique Doord, I hadn't heard of that one before, but the push technique has never failed for me and is used pretty much as standard over at Polycount. As with everything else, its whatever you feel is easiest. The problem with screenshots is you get big thick colored lines that are liable to obscure fine detail where your mesh is pretty dense. It also looks kinda crappy.
The reason you don't know about my technique is that I worked it out myself.
quote:Originally posted by Jackablade
The problem with screenshots is you get big thick colored lines that are liable to obscure fine detail where your mesh is pretty dense. It also looks kinda crappy.
This is the problem with using push. I have use more of a push then is needed for the hand, but this is about what would happen to the hand if the push was to work on the less dense mesh like the chest from a distance most render are from.
[IMG]http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v92/Doord/WireHelp02.jpg[/IMG]
Left image splines, right image mesh and push.
Just a note to all, if you told that something is the way it is done because most people do it that way, it may not be right. Hell everything I was told at the AIE was the hard way to do things, and as far as I know they are using my modelling tutorial to show new students how to model which was written in edit meah (not edit poly.) So always question an idea, try it and see if you can improve on it or what use it is to you.
This looks like a good idea, to have a thread for discussing tips and problems concerning the challenge. I think it could be beneficial to everyone to have people posting questions about challenge related problems (and more importantly others trying to answer their questions). [:)]
With the wireframe shots, isn?t the point just to show the poly layout? It?s not like the wireframe is for pimping the model, so what?s wrong with using the quick and easy screen grab method? Whatever works, I guess. [:)]
Well, I?d like to be the first newbie to ask a question here, but I don?t really have any yet [:P]. But it seems to me like a good idea to have a thread just for challenge related problems/questions.
Did anyone notice the brief stated that the required submissions be screenshots?
The optional render can be what ever you like but no rendering and fancy lights for the rest.
We just want to see the models in there most pure form for judging purposes.
Oh one note you will need a rendered image if you are to be using the alpha, spec or bump map obviously.
Please don't go overboard with that though, 1 or 2 nicely light shots will suffice as I'm sure Souri doesn't want all his bandwidth eaten up.
I will add that to the brief. [:)]
What is wrong with black background?? (besides if the character is black.)[?] But don't render in the dark make sure poeple can see your model.
[url]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/Doord/2004726185125_Wip02.jpg[/u…]
Its easier to see a model's sihloette on a neutral (like grey) background than on a black one.
This screnshots only for submission business sounds strange to me... Surely it'd be better to do a quick render so you get all the antialiasing and proply calculated shading rather than the generally horrible viewport display. Whatever Souri wants I guess...
Jackablade: I generally agree with no black backgrounds, lose edges etc, as for the rest, your point is exactly why we don't want a render, all the fancy GI lighting etc is a nice way off hiding the faults in a model/texture.
The screengrabs are to show the models/textures in their purest forms.
You can render it out to show off the spec,bump and/or opacity maps if you use them or if you just want an additional pimp render.
Also I'm confused, you can still get nice antialiasing with a screengrab, why is that an issue?
You evidently feel strongly about the screen grabs issue, so I shan't argue any further. Perhaps its just my ancient version of Max that looks nasty in the viewports.
Anyway, getting back to the tips, something else people might like to consider is modelling in quads (four sided polygons). It makes life a whole lot easier, particularly when you start getting up into the higher poly levels. Easier modelling, better rigging and deformation. Its a good technique to try and pick up.
Personally tris gives you more control...the quads are made up of tris anyway it's actually BETTER to see what way the tris are going as I have to continually adjust the direction so it deforms/looks better the other way. using Edit Poly has it's disadvantages, it puts the tris how IT wants to, rather than like Edit mesh that allows you more control. In MAX anyway.
That, and to get an accurate poly count when you use edit mesh/tri based. Using edit poly lulls you into thinking you are doing exceedingly well on your count, only to find you have an extra 1000 polys you didn't think you had cos you turned your poly count to what they should be...which is the tri count, not poly count.
Still, I like using Edit Poly, the OTHER benefits outway the occasional need to add an edit mesh to see the real count, and the need to make each tri by hand when it doesn't do it MY way :)
Jackablade: Not all that fazed about the screengrab thing, just wondering why it mattered?
You can render pimp renders till the cows come home, why try disputing the orthographic shots?
I've had nearly every point on the brief questioned by someone and its getting old real fast so I don't mean to offend or be abrupt, just sick of the constant picking. [:)]
Tris, quads, splines... its just a way of constructing the mesh, there is no proven golden rule when doing any of them.
It comes down to personal choice, just remember a quad is just 2 tris. [:P]
For me, personally, well I generally like quads but I don't stick soley to them if its going to be wasteful, having a few tris isn't going to kill the mesh.
Quads are more of a visual thing for me, quads are cleaner and although Doord will disagree, lol, it makes poly flow easier to read, also edit poly is much better to use than edit mesh on Max.
Yes I modelled for ages in editmesh so I know both sides so don't rip into me for that statement editmesh lovers. [:)]
One thing I do hate is Ngons, 5+ sided polys, thats just pure laziness and bad construction, join 2 vertices and you will have a tri and a quad you lazy buggers. lol.
Discmage:
- You can turn on view all edges in editpoly to keep track of them, so edit mesh isn't the only way of doing that.
- I don't look to the polycount for making a good mesh and generally doubling your count will give you a semi accurate idea anyway.
quote:Originally posted by Discmage
Personally tris gives you more control...the quads are made up of tris anyway it's actually BETTER to see what way the tris are going as I have to continually adjust the direction so it deforms/looks better the other way. using Edit Poly has it's disadvantages, it puts the tris how IT wants to, rather than like Edit mesh that allows you more control. In MAX anyway.
That, and to get an accurate poly count when you use edit mesh/tri based. Using edit poly lulls you into thinking you are doing exceedingly well on your count, only to find you have an extra 1000 polys you didn't think you had cos you turned your poly count to what they should be...which is the tri count, not poly count.
Still, I like using Edit Poly, the OTHER benefits outway the occasional need to add an edit mesh to see the real count, and the need to make each tri by hand when it doesn't do it MY way :)
- You can use "Edit Triangulation" to change your eages in edit poly.
- There is a very good Max Script which show you the real tri count when using edit poly. (If you want a copy just e-mail me.)
The only reason I look at the polycount is we have a limit at the end...
I realised after finishing my head for example, that it already had 4500 tris...more than half the total allowed for this comp...so I had to cut that down significantly before moving on.
But I agree, Edit Poly is certainly better than Edit Mesh. I remmeebr back in the ol' days when it didn't exist. How we survived I do not know :)
I don't think you're getting my meaning, Malus. [url]http://www.psilon.net/jackablade/Trolodyte%20head%2001.jpg[/url] This is what I'm talking about. It can be done quicker than loading up Photoshop to screendump. Anyway, its not like it matters. If you want screendumps then thats fine.
And you're quite right about the fact that its ok to have a few tris in the mesh if you're not going to subdivide. I had meant to mention that somewhere but got distracted by shiny things.
As for polycount in Edit Poly, if you've got max 5 or higher get Juan Martinez' awesome viewport poly count script [url]www.juantwo.com[/url] He's also got some nice scripts for mirroring verts in physique.
quote:Originally posted by Jackablade
As for polycount in Edit Poly, if you've got max 5 or higher get Juan Martinez' awesome viewport poly count script [url]www.juantwo.com[/url] He's also got some nice scripts for mirroring verts in physique.
That's the one I couldn't rememebr were I got it from.
quote:It can be done quicker than loading up Photoshop to screendump
you dont need to load up photoshop, all you need is Paint!
those spline ones look really nice, and i would certanly use them for pimping you mesh, but for quick progress shots a screen grab is just so quick.
and i'm for edit poly too (though i too started on edit mesh, luckily not for long though), and i agree with malus on the quads thing, looks heaps neater and easier to see the flow. but i like seeing trimeshes too cos if they're well constructed they look cool :)
Sorry but I have to say it, the way you render wire frame is not very good. The push modifier doesn't work very well for making wire frame renders, because it can push edges in the wrong direction making edges over lap in areas (mainly areas with large amount of geometry, like hands and faces.)
The far better way to do it is to go into sub-object mode select all the edge and then use the "Create Shape From Selection", change the "Shape Type" to "Linear." Go out of sub-object mode select the spline and make it renderable. Change the spline thickness to what ever you want. This way in your wire frame renders the wire frame is on top of your edges not push 0.3 away from the edges.
[IMG]http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v92/Doord/WireHelp.jpg[/IMG]
Also never forget to render 3/4 views in perspective.
How is that for a critique?? [;)]