Sumea Challenge #6 -3D- Makk

Good luck Makk, we're here to help you through it :)

It's good to see you giving it a go :)

Good idea dropping the concept art. We all know what a Zombie looks like, so wee don't need too mech help to know what one looks like :)

Go Makk!

Awwwww concept! concept! [:D]

Thanks guys, Im gonna need a lot of help!

Started on him already
[img]http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rowanfamily/sumea/leg1.jpg[/img]
Its his right leg.

Its at about 496 faces. There is a ton of polies under the boot that I have yet to optimize.
So.......how can I make it better!?!?!
The wrinkles at the bottom of the pants, do they look ok?
How well will he animate at the knee area?
How do I render so it shows the wireframes?
Im not looking forward trying to figure out how to model the crotch.

On a side note, if Im lucky enough to get him mapped, I will be textureing him on 8 256x256 instead of 2 512x512 textures as Im pretending he will be on a console game (PS2 and Cube).

The wrinkles could be faked with textures instead.
If you are using max6, there is an option to render wire frames in the render dialogue box. (I think its force wireframes). If its maya -looks like it, you can use the wireframe option in the hardware render menu.

I normally do a rough model to get the feel of the shape, then go back and rebuild with splines. Work out what is going to move and give these areas even and high counts of polys. You can fake curves using rounded normals and curved decals on the texture.

Looking good so far Makk.

Like xyz said. Flesh out the idea first and then add in the detail. That way if you decide to change the proportions, it will be easier :)

Its probably is a better idea to get the base model down then start adding detials.
I added the wrinkles cause I thought it would be a be good idea with the high polycount.

The force wireframe renders it in wireframes and not faces, I want to render the model with the wireframes on the faces. Im using the trail of MAX6.

Here is an update-
[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/makk/200472023356_leg2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/makk/2004720233558_legs3.jpg[/img]

polycount for both legs is 1092
The crotch area sucks. How could I fix it? He looks like he is wearing a nappie or something underneath! [:(!]

Well, this is where Im at... [:o)]

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/makk/200472674230_crappy1.jpg[/i…]
This is the base of which I will build upon. Crit me please!!!
Any advice on how to build the shoulder area?

Thought about giving up but I do want to be able to create 3d characters. Its soo hard and frustrating now but I must hang in there if I want to succeed.
I always forget to attach the pic instead of uploading to my webspace!

Dont give up whatever you do - your effort is truthfully good for your first model - without a book or anything to tell you how to build what your building ie ( calipso ) your doing a helluva job makk. [:D]

My advice to you is to keep going the way you are - and block the model out just like you have been - and then once youve got all the rough 'blocks' in place - you can start moving edges and adding cuts etc and building on the detail level.

just persist and dont let it get the better of you [:)] and remember that theres a shitload of tools there to help you define what you want to.

Thanks Haz :)
Update-
[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/makk/20047283165_crappy2.jpg[/img]

The shoulder is a mess....well, so is everything else but the shoulder is the worst.

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/makk/200472831646_shoulder.jpg[/…]

dude you should see a close up wire of my dudes gums, its 5 sides and dodgyness galore! dw about it, your doing fine :D

What modeller in their right mind would start from the bottom up? And where is your concept? I know most people would know what a zombie looks like, but you should do some concept drawings for your own reference. It would make modelling a lot easier.

His feet are a bit on the small side. You've also got a hell of a lot more polys in them than you really need. Likewise in the shoulder and hip. Try to get some better poly distribution going. It'll help when you're adding more detail later on.

Goodgod: Does it really matter where one begins the model ?

Makk: That side ortha is a good shot, what I would do for posture sake of the model is select all the verts above the detail in his knee right up to the top of his head ( include the arms ) and move em all back slightly. Keep adjusting to kill that leaning forward appearance, and rather find a nice solid balanced / weighted feel.

The optimising in the shoe and shoulder areas can wait until youve got the model blocked out.

One thing I found when i was learning to model was that when you dont fully understand what your trying to do ( ie playing with max / maya ) you get frustrated fast, and when your stuck in an area trying to do something and getting nowhere, your spirits and interest drop dramatically. So I always pushed on and got the whole model built before I started worrying about details. Just so I could see progression and potential, rather than being stuck looking at a mess of tri's in a shoulder area [:P] Keep going [:)]

I agree with hazard, where you start is all upto preference and what works best for you.

For your first makk you have a pretty good shape started already, i know alot of people that didnt get anything even remotly human like on their first attempt, so good work. Just keep workiing at it and make sure you finish it. I dont know about you but personally nothing shits me more than an unfinished model that does nothing but sit on your hdd :)

With regards to the back, you'll give him a much more dynamic pose if you accentuate the curves more make the area with his shoulder blades stick out more then give it a fairly deep elegant curve around the spine to the butt. Its amazing how much difference this makes to a model. Probably not really good for his back, but it looks nice.

haha moonunit thanks. I saw yours, its coming along well. The mouth area looks really good.
Goodgod Im using reference for anatomy but as far as design goes I know what it s going to be looking like so I didnt really bother with the concept.
I tweaked feet by making the longer Jackablade, thanks.
Haz, I did some moving of the verts so he isnt leaning forward to much, thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, when I get frustrated I move onto something else.........usaully TV!! :)
Thanks Avanlanchex. I would like to finish this model off, but Im more concerned with learning.

Here is the latest and possibly last WIP shot-
[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/makk/20048363421_finalfirst.jpg[…]
Its the probably the last shot because of this..

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/makk/20048363818_new1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/makk/20048363940_newsmooth.jpg[/…]
Started modelling this after I found some really good shots of the various character models from the Res1 Remake.
I would like to continue with this version and maybe turn him from an infected Racoon City soldier into an infected S.T.A.R.S member.
The shoulder has lots of polies in it but apart from that Im happy with it :)

heh heh damn those shoulders -_- (having trouble with them a bit myself)
both models are lookin pretty good :D

i dont know if it was intentional or not... but the feet kinda turn a bit inwards..... this is cool..
... it kinda suggests that it is infected.... or zombified allready!

cant wait to see the head!

you are doing well....... keep it up :)

GO MAKK! GOOoooooooooo! [:D]

Curve that back in more. He's looking really off balance.

looking good, a nice shape. you could probably fix the leaning problem by just pulling the polies above the thigh backward, it should balance his legs and give him a bit more comfortable resting position as it will give him slightly bent legs. other than that there isn't anything else i can notice.

Thanks guys.
Tojo I didnt mean for them too curve in soo far, it does look pretty funny.
Well I have been working on the hand-

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/makk/20048623955_hand.jpg[/img]
Gah! Not happy with it. This is my second version BTW, you dont want to see the first one!!
I'll probably go back to it but for now its time to move onto the legs.

hands are freaking hard to model, but bloody easy to reference :P (ie.. theres a really good reference on the end of your own wrist! :o )
For a first (or first mark 2 :P ) go thats pretty good :D id only really go for making the tip of the thumb less flat and rounding out the area where the thumb connects with the palm. Maybe make the palm itself less flat but really you could go on tweaking anything for aaaages, only limited by your patience and caring :P Keep it up!!!

Man. If my first hand attempst looked like that I would have been cheering :) I used to model hands completely flat and had great troubles getting them to look right, you may want (or not) try modelling the hand in a more relaxed fashion. ie: Making the thumb rop so that the palm has that natural curve to it :)

Aha! but you didnt see the first version (and no one will!!!) [;)]
I tried to get the thumb into a more relaxed position but couldnt work out how to build it that way.
I have made some adjustments to the palm as Moonunit suggested but I will upload a pic later.

Here is the beginings of his torso-

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/makk/20048915528_upper.jpg[/img]
I am modelling these in individual parts (the chest, shoulder, arm, hand and waist) then just positioning them in the tight spot. Will this effect the way it animates or anything? or does the model have to be all joined up together?
Also, I ran an STL check on a few of the areas and it came up with the following errors-
4 double faces and 20 multiple edges on the crotch part
66 multiple edges on the glove.
Anyone know how to fix these? if I try selecting one of the edges that has multipled edges and then delete, it deletes the entire face.
Is there a way to weild edges like you can with vertices?

i am not entirely sure if this is the problem..... but cant you just select the remove button under the 'edge edit' in the command panel ...???

some games ie 'morrowind' only have seperately modelled limbs anyway.......

but better to have a nicely joined flowing single mesh that bends and flexes the way you want it to...

.......from my relatively limited experience with animating .....

sorry if thats not much help :)

Tojo there doesnt seem to be a remove button under the edge sub-object mode. Oh well, I'll figure it out somehow.
Anyway an update-

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/makk/2004811101017_bodyupdate.jp…]

There is something really wrong with the legs, especially in the side view. I cant figure it out I must have been staring at it too long.
Any C&C would be great.

Pitty no one has bothered to Critt your work yet Makk.
First off I'll say get some propertions stuff happening.

I posted this in another forum. That went I start to model I like to model the head first this way I can use that as a reference to get the hight of you character and where things line up. Eg. Second head down should be where the nipples are [:)] Third is Navel etc. I'm sure you can just draw a line and use that as well just work out what works for you. For the where things line up I'm sure you can find reference for this on the net, I have it in a book.

As for shape your going for a human type look so run over to www.3D.sk for some reference. At the moment I would drop the shoulder/and or bring the neck up at the moment he looks like his shrugging.

Don't get me wrong I think your going well you just need to fix a few bits up. no way am I saying its bad. Also it was a bit messy but I realy liked the shape of the legs on "finalfirst.jpg"

As for your questions:

I find games that have seperate joins are usally RPG games like Dungeon Seige. that you can't see close up to the characters and see how dodgy it looks. usally better to keep your mesh in 1 bit... usally.

STL check has a button you can check that selects the faces or edges when it shows the problem. Double faces usally means you have one on the back of another face so rotate your object and have a look around and you should see it. As for multiple edges I would say just select the verts at the end of the edges and collapse them togeather. Or just select the whole object and give it a weld to start with.

As for your comment at the start about the concept, if your serious about this stuff I'd say get in and get those ideas on paper first. I find that with out a good reference to work from you will spend time modelling something then want to change it then change it more and you would of saved a heap of time doing a concept from the start [;)]

Anyways sorry for rambling on and anyone who bothered to read that [:p] just had some time. So hope that helped you out a bit Makk and keep it up. Pratice makes perfect [:D]

P.S. I don't care about spelling mistakes [B)]

THanks heaps man. Some really good stuff there :)
Im going to just put a very rough block there for the head, to use for reference. good idea thanks :)
The vest is pretty bulky so I dont think I will drop the shoulder too much, but I will try it and see how it looks anyway.

As far saying my model is bad, hehe, I dont mind at all. It IS a pretty bad model and really thats what Im expecting. What shits me the most is how messy the legs are.
I agree that the first version had better legs. I might try ripping them and putting em onto the new one.
I'll have to try that STL stuff out. I really hope it works.
It might be a good idea to weld some parts of the model together but after/if I finish the mapping.

Concept wise, well to be honest, I havent picked up a pencil in a few months and Im afraid of how crap it wil be. I do agree that concept work is defenitly helpful. I know exactly what it will look like so I dont really need it in that regard, but it would do good for stuff like proportions, etc. I'll see what happens.

Thanks agian for the reply USF. REally helpful :)

P.S. I dont really give a shit about spelling mistakes either as long as its readable ;)