I would love to do some normal mapping work. With now many tools to speed up the process I think it has became more of an option.
What would you all like to see in the next Challenge??
If there's something to be learnt from the last challenge, it's to try to keep it easy and accessible so that everyone can take part and finish. I would love to have a challenge with normal mapping but I think we'd have to extend the 2 month challenge, and normal mapping/hi-res modelling will probably stop a fair few from entering/finishing. Anyway, let me know what everyone thinks.
I think around earlier this year I mentioned that something *big* was planned for a Sumea challenge down the track - it's currently being organised so no promises yet, but hopefully this will be the one! Btw, Hyperfocal Designs will be sponsoring [url="http://www.sumea.com.au/snews.asp?news=1022&related=Hyperfocal%20Design"]Hyperfocal Terrains for the next challenge[/url]!
If I can organise my free time a bit better I'm in for sure. [:P]
It would be good to see everyone try it.
Maybe do the following:
- a highres reference model.
- low res ingame model @ 3000 - 3500 tris Max.
- diffuse , bump, normal, alpha and spec maps @ 4 x 512 or 1 x 1024 max for textures.
(damn that seems like alot of art resources, lol).
- no photo sourced images.
- no cannabalism.
- no fanboy models, can be created to fit within an existing license just not a existing character.
As for genre/theme, I'd love to see dark gritty stuff, something that can actually show off what normal maps can do.
A couple of ideas:
Horror/Parasite: (Silent hill/resident evil) Make a partly infected humanoid, possible boss or you in the last stage transformation. Must have obvious human aspects.
Big Beasty: A gigantic unique critter, Monster Hunter stlye, think Rancor etc.
Maybe it would be cool to see a realistic character normal mapped, but then again I'm doing that right now so maybe not. I like Malus's idea. Maybe realistic humanoid character from a fantasy world, not fantasy art but a world other then this one (Sic-Fi, WarCarft, Hell or a world that is in your mind.)
If the next challenge is going to take alot of time, i doubt ill be entering [:(] Can i suggest something along the lines of what we have done in the past, with Malus's horror theme or similar just not 3 models worth this time !
I think there will be fewer entries for the normal mapping approach, and quite frankly scare alot of newbs away. Im not sure thats a good thing.
/my two cents.
I was planning on entering this one as Im slowly learning 3d. Though to be honest, the idea of doing a normal mapped horror creature is a little scary (no pun intended).
Also 1 character would be enough work.
As for themes, I like the idea of doing some sort of freaky looking creature. Other ideas would be a fighting game character that must include a weapon model.
I don't know if entering the challenges just because there is a lure of a prize is the best idea. I always thought it was meant to push your limits and try new things. Not just to get free stuff.
The other problem with mixing in Normal Mapping (apart from the inexperience problem), is that it mixes two challenges. A low poly one and a high poly. Seeing as no one actually finished the first/last high poly challenge, it may be taking it a bit too far to make a high poly and low poly model. I'm all for the idea of making the low poly character have a higher level of detail (say HL2 for arguments sake), with spec and bump maps, but it may make it a little less accessable to many members here.
The ugly monster idea sounds quite cool, as does Makk's idea for a martial artist/weapon master. There has been talk before of people not liking doing the 'tough' characters, so how about a MMORPG character? Opens it up for fighters, mages, clerics and even merchants. The only problem with that is what MMORPG?
I thought it was called the Sumea Modeller 'Challenge' thats all [:P] Ooooh... nasty. lol
Its true that the normal map idea may be a bit of a stretch for people to finish on time so scrap that idea but please make the next comp at least slightly challenging, alot of the past challenges have been pretty cruisy and aimed soley at those newer to 3D.
I'd have to say that the Demon comp I set is definately amongst one of the most unimaginative so I'm not pointing any fingers. [:)]
If Sumeans want to get better we really need to push our personal limits and not stick with what we know, right?
Just to keep the ideas rolling:
- Pirates and thier Familiars: Blackbeard and his parrot etc.
- Sideshow freaks.
- Those wonderful men and their flying machines: Build your own wright bros. 1 man powered flying machine. Pre-combustion.
- D&D: Design you as your favourite D&D character, must use your own facial features.
I could keep going all night!
I say.. Leave the choosing of the next challenge up to whoever it is that gives away the prizes.
Or, let one of the people who finished the last challenge pick something, as they have a more realistic idea of what is doable in peoples spare time.
But yeah :/ I have noticed that the choosing of the topic gets a whole lot more attention and input than the actual competition..
Anyhow, I should be up for the next one, so long as it isn't another arse pokemon challenge.
Perhaps splitting the challenges up? One for the newer ones and one for the 'pros'? I would like to do something a little more in-depth as well, but it can be unfair to those who have just installed Max :) You can of course choose if you would like to participate in the easy or the hard :)
I like the idea of making yourself into a d&d character. Especially if prestige classes are allowed. Divine Agent :D Those wonderful men and their flying machines is also a cool idea. You're getting some good ones Malus. Keep 'em coming ;)
Modern day protagonist. I think that Jacobt metioned this one a while ago. Make a main character that looks like they could exist in this day and age.
D&D gets my vote all the way, but i have to agree with Dean, if we want to get better we have to push ourselves, but avens idea of splitting up the challenges to pro / amatuer is pretty good, im definately for that idea.
Just if JI enters the Amatuer modelling comp - he has to start with a handicap of -25 points [:P]
I obviously can?t speak for anyone else, but I think it would be good to have a challenge that encourages heaps of people to enter (and complete). That would mean something simple.
The fact that the last challenge was generally considered fairly easy/simple (it was only 3 low poly characters after-all) though only 10 people entered, makes me think that the challenges might need to be fairly simple/easy at this stage in order to get more people involved.
Why are people against photo sourced textures? Being able to photo source might enable lots more people to finish. Would allowing both hand drawn and photo sourced textures offer any real problem? I don?t see how it would really give people an advantage.
IMHO, I think the next challenge should just be to create one low-poly game model.
As far as choosing the theme: I think the people giving the prize should choose from a selection of ideas that we have discussed. Personally, I really like the RPG idea! While staying in a genre (fantasy/sci-fi), it gives the artist a massive range of options and plenty of room for creativity.
Jacana's idea of doing landscape or archetecture sounds interesting too.
And splitting up the comp into difficulty levels sounds cool, but I can imagine the ?pro? comp having only 4 or so people finishing it, while about 40 people finish the ?amateur? comp. [:P]
There is also the issue of judging though, with a really broad open thing like "an rpg fantasy sci/fi character" is does give the artist a world of creativity, but the judging criteria has be well defined, otherwise its more or less an oppinion of " Is this Half Troll Paladin cooler than this Dracolich "
However i think a simple outline / task even such as jacana mentioned with architecture would be cool. Lets nominate someone to write up the guidelines! [:P] I think theres 2 people already who have said that Bullant should pick the criteria for the next challenge?
I'm for Malus / J.Kerr to continue, they've done fine jobs in the past - and would probably have more time to review the guidelines / questions / queries than a development company would IMO.
The comps so far have basically all been the same and I think Malus saw this eg. "lease make the next comp at least slightly challenging" what I mean by that is the comps didn't have anything new in them. They were all based on the same techniques etc. you just making more of them or giving a new look or poly count and texture size. I'd like to see some more things thrown in like bump maps, enviroment maps evern some animation would be good eg. facical expressions.
Pretty sure a few people said it and I think normal mapping is taking things a bit to far. I did make my HP samurai guy in a month. but that didn't have anything to do with concepting and a low poly model and a texture. Not to mention when I tried to normal map a bit of him my computer just couldn't handle it and I'm pretty sure I read Bullet has a worse computer then me [:p]
As for a kind of theme I would go with what Doord said and keep the texturing realistic eg. none of this cartoony stuff again! I think 90% of companies hate the stuff [xx(]
As for a choise of topic can you choose something broad enough to let someone be creative, eg. I liked the creature/ride challenge because it let people go Scifi or Fantasy and make it what ever they wanted and I think it showed alot more interesting designs. So yeah not the D&D thing because that realy puts you in a box.
I've got a +9 Ogre slaying knife..
I'm sure I'll say something else later.. so bye for now..
hazard: Woah hey hold your horses nelly..
After my last attempt at setting a topic I don't want to set another one, it was a nightmare just getting people to agree on what constitutes as a decent texture size. lol [:P]
I actually think that the companies being kind enough to give away the prizes should have a say in the setting of the comp itself, I was just offering up ideas because I like the sound of my own voice..er..typing..er...you know what I mean.
Just one thing though, its proven hard enough getting one comp up and running, let alone one for newbies and one for the more experienced people.
Hazard, I think you?re correct about the brief needing to be well designed, but still open to creativity. I think the brief should represent the kind of thing we would be expected to do in a real world situation (like the last one did).
UniqueSnowFlake, it?s a good point that these challenges need to challenge people, and have new things in them, but I think to fully concept, model and texture a character in 2 months is a big enough challenge for most people to do in their spare time. However, I think you have a great idea there with the animating aspect.
It would be interesting if after making the character (if a character is what we do), we had to make some kind of attack animation or something?
?Though even that could result in few people completing the challenge.
I think it?s a good idea to let the companies giving the prize decide what the final brief will be, but I think it would be cool if we came up with a few different possibilities, and get them to choose one (and make any changes they think necessary).
Also, I?m wondering what do other people think about allowing photo sourced textures?
I say keep the comp as one group...personally thats what a competition is all about..beating the best...Plus i dont think all of us just enter to win do we? i like the challenge in general no matter the out come.
As for ideas...what about a beast and its rider/tamer? eg dewback and stormtrooper...
But choose a theme they should be modelled from...
And perhaps like someone else said something higher in polys but not full on hi res.
Anyways whatever it is..itll be my first one on these boards..so what ever the outcome i look forward to it [:p]
Cheers
Adam
Melvosh - a couple of Comps back had a 'rider / steed' theme.
As for adding animation I think thats going a bit far for a "Sumea Modeller Challenge".
Pose the character sure! but adding animation to be judged on, IMO is making it a bit hairy.
But a new direction and boundaries are whats needed, im open to all kinds of ideas, as long as they have simple guidelines to judge ( see last modelling comp ) - but allow infinite creativeness [:D]
Come on Dean i know you want to write another idea for this challenge [:P] Everyone could be discussing this topic forever, and even then it wont please us all. You should just bang one up in your 'spare' time [;)] and say THATS IT! deal with it sumeans!
Re: Photosourced textures. Quite frankly I don't see a problem with it either, alot of games nowadays use photosourced textures, for characters / placeable objects. It does however show how good an artist is at attempting to replicate various materials.
What I meant by the two challenges. They both have the same theme. One has more simple requirements (ie: 1500 polys 1 x 512^2 texture) and the other has more complex requirements (ie: 3000 polys 4 x 1024^2 maps - 1 difuse, 1 sepc, 1 bump, 1 alpha and extra normal if chosen). Who and what says if you are an amature or a pro? You do. if you think you can get the complex requirements done, then go for it. If you know that you wont have enough time to do all the extra work, or you don't understand the extra maps that well, then just enter the easier one. It is in no way/shape or form meant to make people feel like they aren't good enough. It is just trying to give those who want it a challenge, and have something that is more realistically possible for many of the members here (either for experience or time). I can understand not wanting to make things too difficult on the writting of things and then to get people to agree. The last one did end up quite well though as it was stippulated early on that if you didn't like the rules, too bad. Deal with it or don't do it (end Hitler Mode :p). I just threw it out as a way to bridge the gap between people who want a challenge and those you have enough of a challenge with something more basic.
The scene is a good idea, but it has been mentioned a few times before and very few people seem interested in it. The rules can also become fairly iffy as well. Scenes usually require quite a few textures and how do you put a cap on that? 10 x textures? 5mb worth of textures (no larger than 512^2)? What format should the textures be in to reach the 5mb cap? Are you allowed to index the colour tables to save on a lot of space? I like the idea of the scene as modelling wise it is quite simple, yet it pushes texturing skills a bit more. This is good as people always say they want/need to improve their own texturing abilities, and it opens it up to more people (the more 2d minded here). The bad side is that it is a modellers comp, not a texturers comp... Can that just be changed the the Game Challenge or something?
The theme should be kept somewhat tight. The dnd idea isn't too bad with that, as it is all fantasy. You dont have to compare some dude with a sword to some chick with a 10 metre long laser riffle. It can't be any more dificult to judge then what people thought 'kiddy' meant :) Plus it leaves it open to those who don't know much about it (just make some buf guy with a sword and call him a fighter), or for those who want to take it more seriously (here is my lvl xx druid. his alignment is... his stats are... he has this type of scythe... with this armour... when he goes to the toilet he sits down to pee...). As much as I like the dnd idea, I think it is just more the idea of making ourselves into game characters :D In the end though, yeah, it should be the judges or sponsors who decide :) No harm with giving them some ideas to pool from though. Everyone presents a design doc and the best company gets it :)
Photosourced Textures? For them. I don't see it as being cheap or taking the easy way out, as a lot of work still has to be done to the photos to get them to look like a texture (claning up the photo. colour/level fixing. matching light sources). It requires a different set of skills, and shouldn't be dismissed too quickly. The only rule should be that if you want to photosource, you should have to take all the photos yourself. No magazine scans or sourcing from others sites (3d.sk).
How dare you bag my computer unique snowflake that's clearly my job. But anyway i dont think mine could handle normal maps. I'm only starting to understand what a normal map is, no way i could make one for quite some time. But this comp aint about me (:()
I like malus's idea for the D&D character with the creators face, but is it going to be photosourced or actually painted?
Aven: I actually think you have the difficulty level backwards, doing a 1500 poly model with 2 x 512's seems harder than a 3000 poly with assets galore. [:P]
Stu: The flying machine idea includes a pilot, so there would be a character. [:)]
My opinion of photosourcing is this, yes it does take alot of skill to manipulate photo reference to make textures but it doesn't really show of your texturing skills as an artist, just your photo manipulation skills.
Yes its used in the industry and I would never discount its importance but this is a challenge and as such I think everyone needs to stretch themselves.
Also for those of you trying to get into the industry I suspect employers would rather see if you can texture by hand more than use photos.
What I would love to do would be:
- DnD character
- 3500-4000 polys
- 2048x2048 diffuse with alpha for spec
- 2048x2048 normal map with alpha as alpha
2 months to do it.
The thing with photo souring is that it is very hard to get the photo to work with your character and never work perfectly, and because of that you are always are able to make a better texture by hand.
Hmm, I think that would instantly put a lot of people off of entering the comp due to inexperience with normal mapping, but it is a good idea, and perhaps it should be optional to use it.
What sort of theme hasn't been done in a comp yet?