Sumea Challenge #5 -3D- Palantir - Challenger #8

Here?s my first evolution of the sidekick character. It?s supposed to be a type of archaeopteryx (dinosaur), but I think it?s come up looking more like an eagle or something? Hopefully it will all make sense when I have the three states drawn next to each other.

The idea is that when the bird eats the enchanted birdseed, it morphs into a point in it?s genetic evolution (magic, but still scientific [;)]). So it devolves from a bird back into an early archaeopteryx (the evolutionary link between the Dinosaurs and modern day birds. Archaeopteryx lived in the Jurassic period, about 150 million years ago. It had both birdlike features, and reptilian traits, representing evolution ?caught in the act?).

(Man, I?m having fun with this! [:D])

[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/archaeoptery.jpg[/img]

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Rosie devolved

?My god!? Azalea said out loud. ?I?ve mutated Rosie into a little dinosaur!?
Azalea was worried about her pet bird that was now running around her ankles like an excited child. However, when she tried to talk to the small creature, it stopped running around and looked up at her intently. She soon discovered that while the dinosaur-like creature looked wildly different to the Rosie that she knew and loved, it still had the same personality and loyalty that it had always had in it?s previous state. In fact, when Azalea picked up the small dinosaur, she found it to be the same beautiful creature that had previously been her pet bird. This feathered lizard thing WAS Rosie.

Eventually the effects of the enchanted seed wore of, and Rosie morphed back into its original state, but now Azalea was intrigued. She experimented a few times, enchanting the birdseed when her energy allowed, and each time Rosie turned into the same little feathered lizard, that she was coming to think of as Rosie devolved. The little creature proved to be very useful in dangerous situations, protecting her and even fighting for her when the forces of darkness attacked. The creature was incredibly fast, even on the ground, and could perform many small damage attacks on enemies in a very short time frame. It could still fly very fast also, and it had so much strength and power in its talons that it could lift reasonably heavy objects if Azalea asked it to.

The creature wasn?t overly aggressive though, that was, until Azalea gave it a second pill?

And here is the last evolved state of ?Rosie?.
The idea is then when it takes another magic pellet, it devolves back further into a compsognathu, the evolutionary prequel to the archaeopteryx. So basically, what palaeontologists generally believe is that compsognathu evolved into archaeopteryx, which in turn evolved into modern day birds. My game concept is simply the same scientific concept in reverse, so the bird devolves into its ancestors.

[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/compsognathu.jpg[/img]

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Rosie?s second devolution

The small feathered lizard creature swallowed the glowing red pill in a quick gulp, and before Azalea knew what was happening, the creature morphed into something else. It kept growing and growing, until it was up to her waist. It didn?t seem to have many feathers anymore, and its wings had shrunk into small, almost useless looking arms, but she could see the resemblance to the small feathered lizard. She could see the resemblance to the lizard, but not to her pet bird Rosie. All the cuteness of that beautiful bird was gone, and what stood before her was a prehistoric monster. Before her was a living, breathing Dinosaur.

Azalea took a step back, her heart racing in panic. The dangerous looking dinosaur took a step toward her; it?s mouth open into an evil looking grin, showing it?s small but razor sharp teeth. She tried desperately to think of some enchantment that might save her, though she knew it was useless, as all her energy had been used up in enchanting the two birdseed pellets. The monster took another step forwards, and then another. The creature crouched down onto its hind legs, as if preparing to leap forwards. Azalea was paralysed with fear in front of the monstrous creature, and just closed her eyes, waiting for the inevitable. And then suddenly the creature sprang forwards in a blinding burst of speed, straight past Azalea, and on to attack the dark troll that had been sneaking up behind her. The troll didn?t stand a chance against the dinosaur. Once the troll was vanquished, the reptile turned and smiled at Azalea.
?Rosie!? She exclaimed. ?Oh, it?s still you!?
Rosie?s smile broadened, revealing even more of those scary teeth. Then the creature hoped over to Azalea and affectionately rubbed it?s neck against Azalea?s leg, like a pet cat would its owner.
And so began the adventures of Azalea the mystical enchantress and her morphogenic pet bird Rosie.
[:D]

(BTW, if you managed to read all my crap ? thankyou! Any comments/opinions/suggestions or whatever would be more then welcome!)

I like the idea of devolving...

I didn't quite read all of your story, but what I did read was great...cant wait to see the models...

Just some of my concept drawings, showing the three states side by side:
[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/concept_art.jpg[/img]

I'd better get a move on with these models now... not an easy task!

Parrot to Archiopteryx to Dinonichus, that could work [:D]
interesting concept, and cool story, cant wait to see the models.

look's good but i don't understand why the third form is taking a step back from the second form (by losing the wings)maby give the last form it's wing's back or bat wings

The 3rd form is taking a step back from the 2nd because it is devolving.

The 2nd form is really meant to be a kind of half bird, half lizard (feathered dinosaur) - though I don't think it comes across very clearly in my drawings. So if the 1st progression is from bird to feathered dino, the next natural progression would be from feathered dino to full dino. Basically that?s what actually happened in nature, only the other way around. I kind of wanted to make a scientific point with my evolution (devolution actually)?

BTW, I?ve been working hard on modelling the first form, but I?m finding the wings to be way harder then I first realised they would. I?m working out how to animate the wings so that they can fold back behind the bird or flap out and fly ? rather then just leave them in a fixed position, which I really don?t want to do.

Hopefully I?ll have something to post real soon.

There's a tut on 3dcafe which tells you how to mdel a dragons wings, i don't lnow how good it is but here's a tute.
http://www.3dcafe.com/asp/tutorials/max/dragonwing/dragonwing.asp

Bullet ? thanks for that tute, it was good to see another method for making wings, but I want to use a detailed mesh for the feathers instead of a simple skin. Thanks anyway [:)]

Okay, time for an update.

I guess it?s about 70% done ? this is really just the general shape, I still plan on adding detail. There are still quite a few problems with it, but I just want to concentrate on the wings before I worry too much about the body.
It?s 480 quads so far, but with the bones it?s almost 1000 ? which is why I?m working with quads and not tris ? to try and keep the poly count down.
Heres a wireframe of the work in progress:
[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/bird_WIP_01.jpg[/img]

I?ve been having a few problems working out how to do the wings. The main problem is that they need to fold back correctly into the body, so that the game model can be in an idle state or in a flight state.

As you can see in this next pic, it took me several attempts to get to a basic shape that I?m happy with. The pictures of the wings on their own (on the left) are the final wing shape that I?m going with. I?ve made spaces between the lower feathers (though you can?t see them from these shots), so that when the bones fold back, the mesh collapses together like a real bird wing does. The textures are only guides.
[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/wing_development_WIP_02.jpg[/img]

I plan on makeing a simple animation later to demonstrate the functionality of the wings ? I just need to get it all working first!

That looks awesome man, but ive got a note regarding the polycount, you said your using quads instead of working with tri's to keep the count down,

but correct me if im wrong anyone - isnt the final count ALWAYS tri's ?

Oh really? Okay. I don't really understand all this stuff about tri's and quad's. When I do a poly count with the mesh in tri's I get a much higher result then if I do a poly count in quad's. Maybe max (which I'm using) is different to other apps?

Or do you mean that the final model for the competition must be in tri's? I'm confused now.. (What else is new [:P])

Ok, just for clarity sake and to potentially confuse others even more...
people commonly confuse the term "poly's" with the wide definition of a polygon which is a surface with n corners - so it could be 5, 10 or 15, it doesn't matter - disregarding volumetrics based objects, absolutely every surface in 3D is made of tri's aka faces aka "poly's" (3 sided polygons). Even your nurb surfaces, patches, spline surfaces, etc. They're all broken down to solid surface geometry of tri's.

So, that 4 sided polygon aka a quad is made up of 2 tri's with an invisible middle edge. Try it. Make a quad, select two opposite verts and pull them up and down and you'll see that it's still 2 tri's. In effect, you could hide every single edge on your model and have a 1 poly count.

So yes, sorry but that polygon count you're using is irrelevant, tri's are what you should be paying attention to.

sorry palantir, hopefully this wlil clear it up [;)]

The polycount given by the competetion is 3500 polys to use for all 3 evolutions, now in max when you are working in edit poly mode - when you press the 7 key you get a face count. this is the nuymber of faces your mesh has - switch it to edit mesh and hit 7 - youll get the true poly count.

the 3500 polycount we have for this competition is for hte total number of tri's NOT quads.
( shit i hope im right here, someone please confirm that im right!!! )

and just to help you out with the " not really understanding tri's or quad's " stuff, i make it really easy and only ever talk in terms of tri's. i never give polycounts in quads - as for most games the number of tris is what matters [:)]

Thanks guys for clearing that up for me (and anyone else confused by the issue). Much appreciated.

I?ve been wondering for a while now about what the deal is with all those little triangles everywhere! [:D] *hehe*
Now that I understand it, it seems pretty logical to just work with tri?s.

Anyway, the true poly count then is 1054 tri?s.

I?m thinking about trying to make the last evolution on the tightest budget (assuming I get that far), and worry mostly about the wings of the first two models. So maybe 1054 tris is okay. I could still use a few polys for adding detail.

-not sure about the bones though, I think I?ll concentrate on modelling and texturing, and later worry about animation.

Now I?m starting the 2nd form?s model, to take a break from the bird, but will also start the birds texture soon. I?ll post them as soon as I can.

(Comments, opinions, tips for newbies[;)] are welcome [:)] )

just to clarify - i dont think the polycount added by the bones are added to your overall polycount. THe polycount is for the mesh only.

[:)]

Okay, given the remaining time, I?m going to have to settle with what I?ve got for the first two models, so here?s a profile shot of the archaeopteryx (2nd form). I?ll post all the appropriate images in order once it?s all done, but this is just to show my progress with this modelling challenge.

(I took this picture out because it's now at the bottom of this page)

This guy is 1204 polys (that?s in tris [;)] ). So the first two models total 2258 polys, leaving me with 942 free polys for the last model. That really shouldn?t be that hard (especially since there are no wings on the last one), though it would be good to have a little more freedom.

edit: typo

Just quickly palantir - theres a about another 20 - 30 tris you could gain simply by target welding a few of those faces together under the neck region of that model, where there is a high concentration of faces.

Heres a tip - make a diffuse black material with no specularity and chuck that on your model - rotate around it at various angles and look at the silhouette - if you have vertices or polys that dont make ANY significant difference to the silhouette, chances are it will be safe to remove them.

Note thats only my oppinion - others may see different.

Its a shame you wont finish these off. Your doing really well.
[^]

Thanks for the tip HazarD [:)]. - After doing that (the silhouette thing) I can see I have a fair few vertices that I should be able to safely remove. I intentionally made excess polys around the neck area so it can deform okay later (after modelling challenge) when I try and animate it ? though I?ve certainly over-done it, and will try and fix the problem.

As for not finishing the challenge: I?m not out yet! I?m still trying, putting in every available bit of spare time, so I should be able to get the 3 models made and textured, I just don?t think they will be at a level that I would call 100% complete. (This reminds me of school ? racing to get an assignment done on time!).

Would anyone happen to know of a good page or tutorial or something discussing tri cutting/reducing techniques? I?ve been searching but can?t seem to find anything particularly useful. The only thing I?ve found in the max help is for welding vertices in edit poly mode, so maybe I need to use that. I don?t know. It doesn?t explain it very well. There?s gotta be something more descriptive on the net. I?ll keep looking, anyway. Cheers [:)]

Just use target welding in edit poly mode for cutting back tri's - at least thats what i use anyways ;) sometimes you just need to fiddle around with the area youve just cut - to weight the vertex distribution around again, but i dont think theres any QUICK way of getting around this.

And also a note on the tris you chopped out of his neck - if you wish to see how he deforms before and after you hack the verts out - copy your mesh before you start hacking, hack and slay the excess verts, make a simple 2 - 3 bone rig for the neck ( on both meshes ) and have a quick play, it should only take around 30 minutes to check to see if the verts youve killed are going to screw up your deformation [:D]

Hope that helps :D

*Throws in the towel* -okay, okay, stop playing that ?eye of the tiger? stuff, I give up.
There?s less then 2 hours left and I haven?t done more then the basic outline texture for the 2nd evolution, and haven?t even begun to unwrap the 3rd model, much less texture it!

Man, I?m really bumming. I knew I wouldn?t have a chance at the top three or anything, but I really thought I would at least be able to finish! Grrrgh. [V]
I can?t believe how much I still suck, even after a year of learning this modelling stuff. [:(]
Oh well, the practice was good, and practice makes perfect, right? Hmm. We?ll see about that.

Anyway, here?s what I?ve got. I only started the texture today, so obviously it was a bit rushed. The 3rd model was also rushed, which you can probably tell.

If I get over my disappointment in myself, I?ll finish these off at some point and hopefully animate them, or at least the bird.

Feel free to criticise my work.

This can be my splash page.

[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/modelling_challenge5/splash.jpg[/…]

The main characters name is Azalea, she is an enchantress, and her pet bird (sidekick character) is named Rosie.

Wireframe shots of 1st state:

[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/modelling_challenge5/1st_state_wi…]

Renders:

[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/modelling_challenge5/Parrot_rende…]

Texture:

[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/modelling_challenge5/1st_state_te…]

2nd evolution concept and model wireframes:

[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/modelling_challenge5/2nd_state_co…]

[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/modelling_challenge5/2nd_state_wi…]

And lastly the final evolution, concept and wireframes:

[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/modelling_challenge5/3rd_state_co…]

[img]http://www11.brinkster.com/palantir3d/modelling_challenge5/3rd_state_wi…]

God, I?m kind of embarrassed really, posting this stuff when everyone else has done such awesome work. It would have been nice if a couple more beginners put in entries beyond the concept stage!

I?m not trying to make excuses here for my amateur models, as it probably comes down to a degree of lethargy. While I certainly put in a lot of effort, the point is I could have put in more effort. Leaving the texturing to the last 12 hours probably wasn?t the best move either?

Still, it was a good learning experience. It also gave me a more realistic idea of how far I still have to go (to get anywhere near professional). Think I?ll be developing these skills for a few years yet. I guess next I really should focus on learning more about Photoshop and texturing.

And thanks for your comments and improvement suggestions, that?s why I?m here, after all ? to learn. [:)]

You are Challenger #8!

palantir - good job for entering man, dont worry about the embaressment factor - youve done a lot better than alot of beginners ive seen, and had the guts to actually enter and put something up there, when you know it could have been done better.

Stick at it man, and just really absorb all you can :D

Hey palantir, one quick tip regarding your models, you should select all your polys and click on auto smooth in the smoothing group rollout, this will get rid of those real sharp edges on the birds legs and chest.

Other than that you should be proud of yourself, it's always a good idea to stick with something till the end even if it didn't turn out the way you hoped it would.

quote:Originally posted by bullet21

There's a tut on 3dcafe which tells you how to mdel a dragons wings, i don't lnow how good it is but here's a tute.
http://www.3dcafe.com/asp/tutorials/max/dragonwing/dragonwing.asp

how very unsporting of you ...........to have one whole years head start on Challenge number 8 !

seriously though, i cant make comment on your art though (.. because i cant see it)

dont bomb out though dude....... keep up with the contest!! .....