Boy am I tired, I went to the midnight showing of the Matrix: Revolution last night, sat through the second one also.
Anyone else go to it? What did you think?
I loved it but then I'm easily pleased, anything with Monica Belluci in it is 10 stars!!
The battle scenes rocked, especially the APC mecha battles.
I thought they did a good job tweaking the CG also, no glaringly obvious areas unlike number 2, probably because they learnt there lesson with CG and slow motion [:P].
Favourite part, for just sheer cheese factor was the punch to Smiths jaw at the end, ooh thats gotta hurt.
The only bad part is theres is no number 4. [:(]
Here's a post from another forum I go to as I couldnt be bothered typing it out again.
Really good movie. Doesn't bother with the fluff of Reloaded (I liked tha fluff tho') and there won't be any bits in the DVD where you will skip (ie - like the dance scene).
***SPOILERS*** (Big ones so dont read if you dont wanna know).
The Siege of Zion was unbelievably intense - the scale was awesome and the CGI was fantastic. I mean, fantastic. Also - Mifune was an unbelievably hard bastard. His face getting cut up was brilliant. I think the Siege is probably my most favourite piece of action in a sci fi movie.
The pace of the battles was frenetic and confirmed my theory about CGI characters etc -- if the action is fast enough, the human eye can't really focus on whether it's CGI or not.
The pacing of the movie was a lot better. I found it hard to watch coz I had to pee about 20 mins in and I didnt want to miss a damn thing.
The final battle was pretty cool (although again, the trailer revealed too much) and didn't blow me away as much as I thought although the topsy turvy-ness and changing balance of the fight was well executed.
There wasn't as many brilliant revelations or surprises in this film but it was far more consistent than the previous one. I liked Neo's conviction in this film (forcing answers out of the oracle) and Keanu did a good job of acting this time around. Even though I knew that Neo ends up wearing a blindfold -- the way it happened was excellent -- very vicious.
I thought it was cool how the Wachowski's mislead us about 'a' main character being killed when it was more than just one. Excellent. I was hoping for a bit more of the anti-gravity thing. I thought it was supposed to be the Matrix fucking out where as it just ended up being an ability of the enemies they were fighting. Club Hell fight was a little underwhelming compared to other fight scenes in the trilogy and there was little explanation as to what that place actually was.
My views of the films:
Matrix - 10
Reloaded - 8
Revolutions - 9.
Ending was a little limp because when Morpheus said 'as long as the Matrix exists, the human race will never be free' and as I see it, there's still billions of humans plugged in. The machines still have their power source and the humans can still use the Matrix.
The only thing I didnt like was that there was no 'startling' revelation. I was really hoping for something huge.
Saw it this morning. I liked it....I think.
---------------*SPOILERS*----------------
The CG was great, loved the shot of the hundreds and hundreds of sentinals pouring into Zion. The fight scene at the end with Neo and Smith was brillant, espeically the water and the slow-mo into "the punch".
However, the ending was a real letdown. REason being is that, well, it kinda didnt end. They (the people) are back to sqaure one, the machine world still exists, the matrix still has people plugged (and will be rebuilt) and Neo died. Plus, it got a tad boring with all the talking during the middle of it.
STill, it was fun to wach for the CG alone, but the story kinda let me down.
Still think that 1 was the best. I'll see it again though.
you see ive take a different outlook to the whole thing, the matrix and the " real world " are in fact still just programmed worlds and the "REAL" world is the one you see in the last scene with hte architect, seraph, sati and the Oracle.
The oracle and the architect are muckin around making simulations of what may happen when the REAL world gets to that fuedal stage,.. and the simulations are,.. the Matrix,.. within these simulations exist 2 worlds,.. a supposid REAL WORLD ... and the Matrix,.. inside this simulation, the machines or AI are trying to recreate a human,.. and that is the purpose of the whole simulation - to create AI that can reproduce a human exactly as they are in the REAL world. emotions,.. and the power of choice.. all in tact.
I cant remember how many iterations the architect told neo he had been through, but i think what happened this time,.. is that they succeeded in creating from a program,.. " the one " who is the first 100% replica human being, created solely by a program ( the matrix ).
I think what the Oracle and the Architect are up to,.. is trying to build a form of artifical intelligence thats so advanced,.. it can be human.
now ill put on my headphones and continue to listen to my crazy trance....
Just saw it last night and I was absolutely amased and disappointed at the same time. The movie was absolutely EXCELENT.
The Dock Breach scene had to be one of my favorite action scenes EV-ER. Full stop. I loved how they just showed the whole thing from start to finish, instead of the usual, show one bit, pause, show story, pause, come back to cool action, pause, so on. The CG was excelent this time (perhaps they got some ex Square guys to work on it?), but I did have one small gripe with the effects. The scene where all the APUs unfold does look cool, but they could have changed the animations for all of them just a little. all the unfold animations were exactly the same speed, just offset a little and a few were mirrored. I t would have been nice if a few would have unfolded a little quicker/slower than others. Add in a bit of natural randomness.
My major bitch with it was the ending. for a six hour long film (all eps), the ending was just not there. There is a difference between letting people think about parts of an ending, and just not putting one in. I definitely think that there will be a part 4 (word is that Animatrix 2 is in the making).
I liked it a hell of a lot more than Reloaded, but I really didn't think much of Reloaded either.
I like your idea of what the Matrix really is HazarD. I would also like to hear other people's ideas.
My personal idea (after Reloaded anyway), was that the real world is actually part of the Matrix, hence why Neo could down the sentinels in real life. The real world was created as a sort of firewall to stop the humans from actually realising what the real world is. When the architect talks about there being six other 'the ones', they are people who have managaed to break through six layers of the firewall. So if every new 'the one' they are able to breach through another firewall and get closer to the actual real world. Then the question is, how deep is the Matrix's firewall? My thoughts anyway.
hey now thats a cool theory as well fits in well with " .... and ill show you how deep the rabbit hole goes... "
I think all coders wud have a good perspective on what the matrix is,.. ive heard so many different oppinions and ideas,.. i think its pretty cool how a single concept , that goes quite unexplained throughout the story, can create so many ideas,..
" TO THE WACHOWSKI BROTHERS! "
i agree...the storyline and Matrix universe itself is a lot better than the movies...but don't get me wrong, I LOVE all of the movies...but like the others have said, Revolutions wasnt all it was made out to be, even though it was great
The Animatrix has some kool stuff in it, like The Kid's story and Beyond, which I liked because they give more background into what the Matrix is...
next, to get the comics!
I was dissapointed by Revolutions..
It had good parts.. But I found myself constantly wishing that something cool would happen.. It had far too many 'cave dance' scenes.
I kinda felt that they left the whole merovingian thing unresolved.. They spent alot of time developing him as a character - and true, his main role was to develop the storyline - but I would have liked to have seen the character played out better than he was.. I'm sure there are gonna people who think otherwise, and have valid reasons :) But you can't sway me.
Revolutions didnt have any 'cave dance' scenes. Or are you refering to scenes that lack pacing and excitement? I didn't think there were many of those either. Reloaded is probably the most rollercoaster of the series -- massive highs but some extreme lows.
I too wish the Merovingian had a greater part to play in the 3rd movie (I was hoping that he'd be a previous 'One') but in the series, everyone fulfils their purpose so it's not all bad, I guess. I sort of refer to the 2nd movie as thought and the 3rd movie as action. There's very little complexity to the third movie.
As for the unfolding APU's - considering that they are mass produced, surely they'd all unfold at the same speed and have the same way of unfolding? If there were different APU's, the there would probably be some differences there. Although, perhaps with some APU's having rustier joints than others, this could be possible.
They really lost me with Reloaded. I basically felt Neo was indestructible, and therefore boring to watch (for longer than 10 mins anyway).
In Revolutions they obviously addressed this and challenged Neo on so many different levels, which is great (and obvious) from a story point of view. The CG was all good, but I was really in it for the story.
The only thing i found myself missing from Revolutions was a little more matrix gun-fu AND OR kung-fu. That whole, jack in, do a mission, get out mission structure is very exciting. But its pretty obvious the W brothers stuffed everything matrix related into Reloaded so they could focus on the battle for zion.
As Aven said, a good ending is very important. I love being left with a question that starts fist fights, or with a mind altering concept (like the matrix). The Matrix's ending was fantastic, Reloaded's was crap (the architect? Piss-off). And Revolutions' was pretty good (possibly too symbolic).
BTW. At the end, didn't the architect tell the oracle that everyone would be released / unplugged? I was sure i heard that...
All in all, I accept the matrix as a trilogy. :)
cheers
Damn cool, I don't know what all these people who say it's absolute rubbish are on about. Perhaps they want it all laid out for them like a typical dumb Hollywood movie with a happy happy, joy joy ending. Bleh... some mad CG in it, though I thought that they did go a bit wanky/overboard with some stuff... like the Smith fight at the end.
I think I'm going to have to watch it a few more times and do a fair bit more pondering though. =]
BTW: Does anyone know where in the last two movies was the part about the 'most complex filmed sequence, ever' thing that they were bragging about was?
Even if the APUs are all the same and made from prefab parts, there is a great chance with something of that scale, to have weaker joints in some areas. Although it is set far in the future, their workman ship is kinda cruddy (well compared to the machines). I remember with all my Technic Lego that if I had the exact same one as a friend that had the pnuematic systems, the timing in the movement would ALWAYS be different. And Lego is made out of prefab parts as well. As I said though, it really is just a little bitch pick, but it just really stood out too me as I watched it.
Smeg proved my point as to me thinking that the final fight scene in Revolutions could be sumed up with three letters. D-B-Z. THe made a character so damn powerful, that they then had to make an equaly powerful enemy, and how do make two beings that can destroy entire worlds fight? Not too easily.
Reloaded annoyed me as it's love story was just really weak. I love a good romantic film, but Reloaded just didn't do it. At least Revolutions canned that and kept the romance to a minimum.
I thought the pace of Revolutions was really good. They had a solid section of action, then a solid section of slower paced film. It wasn't chopping and changing all the time, so that was okay.
Yeah Smeg, the architect did say that. That is why I am dying to know what happens after Revolutions. Is the Matrix just a game that will be played for fun? Is that how they plan to tie in the Matrix Online game? I just hope that the humans are turned into the machines bitch. Especially if the Animatrix telling of the history is correct.
I am fairly firm in my belief that the 'real world' (Zion et cetera) was in fact, real. Of course, that's a belief and no amount of persuasive argument could sway that. I can't really find anything that points to that world *not* being real, I mean Neo could easily have some form of 'wireless' connection to the matrix after all, the machines are able to reprogram the human brain to accept an AI etc we are talking about way more advanced technology than we have at the moment. There's also the possiblity that Neo is in some way, a form of physical evloution that the machines must control - you 'breed' that many humans and it's only a matter of time before there are changes.
It's just a belief, I can easily see the argument for it being a machine created world too.
I thought Reloaded didn't really have an ending, at the same time, if it was an ending, it's not 'crap'. The architect posed some interesting questions.
I'm surprised they didn't do more with the Merovingian, they did say that he was alot like Neo once, but he's been around alot longer than the 'One'. I would have liked to know how he transformed from an AI sympathetic to the plight of 'choice' to a hardline predeterminist.
I think the third one lacked moments of major characters being 'hard core'/'hard'. When Morpheus bashes through the wall to tackle Agent Smith in the first Matrix movie, even though he knows he's not going to win, and he's just buying Neo time - it sends tingles down my span -> I think 'that guy is cool' - everyone was pretty soft in the last couple of movies.
Neo was especially soft in the third movie - 'I can't do it' wasn't in his vocab in the first two, but obviously he picked up some bad habits from sissy-girls.
They used too much of the minor characters for my liking...I didn't really care about that black chick with plastic tits 'doing her part' for Zion, and the little kid piloting the APU or whatever (did they have to throw in the incomplete training cliche?). I just wanted to get back to watching Neo do something useful...
At the end, the architect said he might release the people from the matrix who wanted to be released.
My thoughts are that Neo was supposed to end the 'idea of the matrix' - and that is, to give control back to the humans. The Wachowski's tried to make us sympathise with the machines, but overall, even the Oracle is there to ensure that machines keep surviving (even at the cost of humanity).
I would imagine that Neo is alive, seeing as everyone else who was infected with the Smith virus came out smelling like roses once whatever happened happened - it's easy to assume that Neo did as well.
I felt unsatisfied with the ending, because the machines are just machines - do they have 'honour' (the movie did pose the question about the possiblity of machines having connections/emotions) and as such - do they feel they need to keep their promise to Neo? In this way, Neo did nothing but perpetuate the matrix. Which to me, isn't an ending, it's just like a short story that took 6 hours to tell. No real beginning nor end, just some messages that are explained through settings, emotions and actions (with flashy special effects etc)
What ticked me off was that the message in the end was a mix up of inevitability and hope.
There was hope that somehow Neo was doing the right thing, then there was the inevitability of the breakdown of peace and the eventual triumph of the machines of the current incarnation of Zion.
id like to say my bit :)
i loved the zion fight scene. thought it was incredible.
and um i think the real world is still not real. u can break stuff like neo does in the real world. and what wireless connection ? how does that work ?
um and the world at the end where the girl makes the sunrise well i think thats another matrix on top of the one thats ment to be the "real world" cos u still cant make a sunrise in the real world.
um yeah the APU's should all move different because the move depending on how u lift your arm. and people all lift their arms at different rates.
i rekon the real world is nearly back to being all nice and beautiful. because the machines started on solar energy and with all this chaos going on in the martix they would start to fix up our ozone so they dont need humans at all any more.
and i thought that kid was cool :) hes ganna be like the next leader of zion. and is he meant to be that kid from the animatrix that jacks him self out ? cos neo says he didn?t save him or something. And in the first one don?t they say that the guy that started zion got him self out somehow ? maybe the kid is ment to start the next zion ?
does the architect really say he will unplug everyone ? i thought he said something like he wont attack the humans like he promised not to. and the oracle asks how long the truce will last ? that doesnt finish a movie. a truce never lasts and we will be back where we started.
Um and if its all an exercise to see what choice is. Well I don?t follow. Like the architect tells us about the chemicals that create love. So are they looking for someone that has a deficiency in these chemicals so they chose different options ? is that what choice is ? I dunno, im confused
i hope there is an animatrix 2. still have unanswered questions
Wireless connection?
That means he would have to have a send/receiver thing mounted on the back of his head. And all the other people would want one too?.
And it would have to be powered ?
And it would mean the matrix would know where he is at all times.
And if he can use it to send info to the matrix that tells them to make the sentinels near him explode. Well if u can do that from the matrix y doesn?t he just jack in and make the robot city explode ? or all the sentinels in the world explode ?
quote:
And it would mean the matrix would know where he is at all times.
The Matrix does know where everyone is at all times. Well not at ALL times, but given enough time, it can track anyone down. That's what the agents do.
quote:And if he can use it to send info to the matrix that tells them to make the sentinels near him explode. Well if u can do that from the matrix y doesn?t he just jack in and make the robot city explode ? or all the sentinels in the world explode ?
Did you not see Neo wipe out an entire legion of sentinels at once? he took out what looked like thousands at once -- but sooner or later, he was gonna get tired.
I think the most important Animatrix story in terms of understanding the trilogy was 'matriculated' where humans convert the machines to their cause, not be reprogramming them but by giving them a choice. They saw 'reprogramming' as no different from the brainwashing that the machines did in creating the Matrix. Bear in mind that the machines are 'AI' and as such, are sentient life forms. Wiping them out is tantamount to genocide.
BTW - the game says that Neo exists in both worlds as a part of his consciousness stayed inside the Matrix when he went to see the Architect. Hence, he ended up in both worlds.
Here's to hoping another animatrix shows up. The online game is set after the trilogy so it'll be interesting to see what happens. I reckon it'll be a group of zealous humans trying to hunt down the machines, thus starting the events of the Second Renaissance all over again...
quote:Neo was especially soft in the third movie - 'I can't do it' wasn't in his vocab in the first two, but obviously he picked up some bad habits from sissy-girls.
I disagree. Neo in the first movie was "what is real? who am I?". In the second movie he was like "I am the One, but I don't know what to do" and in the third he was like "I am the only one who can do this and I know what needs to be done." I think the character arc of Neo was well done and could probably be summed up as 'Discovery. Doubt and Self Belief.' His only doubting phase was in the second movie - he needed to have some sort of weakness -- self doubt was good choice.
i'm not too sure, but i sorta got the impression that she had to give it to the Merovingian or something so that he would help the little indian girl (Sati). Damn, now I need to see it again too...
Also i gotta say, APU's are stupid, why would you not think of putting some sort of shield or armor between you and an enemy when building a weapon? You have this big beefy APU, that offers no protection to the driver at all. Some stupid little kid could just come along and pelt a rock at the drivers head, knocking him/her unconscious, thus disabling the APU. Stupid APUs...
That is a VERY good point Tachyon, but like with every idea, style will always win out over practicality.
As for the new Oracle. The original Oracle died in real life. After she died, people started talking about a 'curse' of the Matrix. Aaliyah died (she was posibly going to play Jada Pinket Smith's Role?), Keanu's wife died in a car accident here in Australia (one reason why Reloaded was delayed for so long), and the original Orical died (sorry I don't know the actress' real name). I was actually really supprised when I saw reloaded and the Oracle was still in it. I would like to know when 2&3 were shot. That's why they made up a new story to try to explain the Oracle's new appearence.
Does anyone know of any movies where Seriph (the actor) actually fights? He was screwed twice in the Matrix, and I really want to see him fight.
I went to see all three in a row with a couple of mates, and the experience was awsome (now i'm waiting to do it for lord for the rings!) the second movie is still my favorite though. revolutions idnt end how i expected it to. i figured that the matrix would still exist in the end, as there are millions of poeple still plugged in. i figured they defeate the machines and take control of the matrix so they can gradually get people out. either that or neo would become what he was 'supposed to be' in that he would do as the other 'ones' did, willingly or not, and the whole process would start again (though i DID NOT want this to be the case, that would have been disapointing).
my biggest critisims were:
it started off very slow. VERY SLOW. after such a great 'leave you hanging' ending in number 2, you left waiting thinkning: come on, get on with the bloody story! the part with the train station and all that was no more than an excuse to go into the matrix (which there wasn't much of, unfortunatly), and there was very little point to it. excepot finding neo of course, and was pretty uneventful i felt. but they did slip in that bit with the machines and their daughter with raises a few ideas, but meh. it was still drawn out and in the way of the real story. and i still cant figure out how he got into the matrix in the first place.
everything else i liked, except the final fight with smith. well, it was great, but the huge 'force explosions' or whatever i thought were taking it a bit far. and while that face punch looked cool, and i liked it, it was a bit much don't you think?
the ending was meh. that's all i can say. nothing really ended one way or the other. so neo did a deal: i'll save the matrix for you if there is peace between the machines and humans. but i couldn't help but be left feeling that they would just as easily backstab him classic badguy style. there was verly little in the story to make me believe they would keep their word.
and how long can trinity keep talking with three great big poles stuck through her?!?!?! that was kind funny actually. you knew they werent comming back once they went to the machine city alone. well, trinity i though maybe, but after neo was blinded i knew he was a gonna for sure. is he alive at the end? i dont think so. as far as i figure it smith pretty much became like a virus, and after assimilating neo the machines used this to 'delete' him i guess. bering that neo is this allpowerful being type thing i guess that would be how they are ablet o do it, it wouldnt be very interesting if they could do it with just anybody from a film stand point anyway.
anyway, i thought it was an awsome movie all in all (and thank god the sfx dont look so fake as they did in reloaded - those mechs were so cheesy in that one) and i'll be going to see it again very soon!
quote:Originally posted by Aven
That is a VERY good point Tachyon, but like with every idea, style will always win out over practicality.As for the new Oracle. The original Oracle died in real life. After she died, people started talking about a 'curse' of the Matrix. Aaliyah died (she was posibly going to play Jada Pinket Smith's Role?), Keanu's wife died in a car accident here in Australia (one reason why Reloaded was delayed for so long), and the original Orical died (sorry I don't know the actress' real name). I was actually really supprised when I saw reloaded and the Oracle was still in it. I would like to know when 2&3 were shot. That's why they made up a new story to try to explain the Oracle's new appearence.
Does anyone know of any movies where Seriph (the actor) actually fights? He was screwed twice in the Matrix, and I really want to see him fight.
Aaliyah was going to play Zee - Link's woman. No big role. In the ETM game, the Oracle is the new actress (who was still very good, but didnt look as 'grandmotherly as the other one). In the game as well as the movie, she says that the new body she found was the price to pay after the Merovingian found out she helped the humans. Her old shell was deleted. The Mero runs the underworld where all deleted/rogue programs exist.
Getting a new actress and writing an explanation as to why she looked different was a good idea -- after seeing Revolutions, it's pretty obvious that the Oracle plays a much bigger part than the previous movies.
quote:the ending was meh. that's all i can say. nothing really ended one way or the other. so neo did a deal: i'll save the matrix for you if there is peace between the machines and humans. but i couldn't help but be left feeling that they would just as easily backstab him classic badguy style. there was verly little in the story to make me believe they would keep their word.
It was kinda 'meh' to an extent but consider this: the cycle of the Matrix is broken: having a One, keeping humans under control, when they break that control, control them again by giving them a prophecy that leads them to an inevitable decision. Now Zion is still alive and their is no need to start Zion all over again with 16 females and 7 males. Humans are free to be if they choose to be - just like Cypher in the first movie.
Anyone else out there would liked to have viewed this as one movie (minus a few scenes) but have an intermission, like in the old days?
Thanks for telling me who Aaliyah was going to play Jonathan, I never actually heard who she would be. The way they were talking about how they signed her up, and making such a big deal about it, I thought that she would have had a larger part in it.
I would like to see more movies run at longer times with intermissions. I can quite easily sit down and relax for six hours. Getting up half way through to go for a leak. I really hope that Hoyts does something like that for all the LoTR films when number 3 comes out. I would definitely be up for that :D
It probalby could have been edited to fit into the second film, more likey just a marketing thing that it became a trilogy, sounds better when you add the words "DVD set". [:P]
Saying that I'm glad they made a thrid installment and I enjoyed it immensely.
I tend not to go into movies with my reviewer goggles on, it seems like no one wants to just escape in movies nowadays. Everyones too busy picking faults, relax I say, enjoy the film for what it was, 2.5 hrs of escapism fun with lots of wire - fu that you paid 12 bucks for.
Did laugh at alot of the corniness in parts though but it all added to the comic feel of it.
Question: Why does every movie have to live up to some gargantuan epic proportion these days? It feels like every movie has to be Ben Hurr or its crap, even over the top action flicks.
I don't think that Neo doubted himself, he just couldn't find direction. When he was faced with a confrontation though, he was very head-strong and committed (in the first two movies). I always thought Neo's power comes from his mind, his belief in himself. Sure he had alot of direction in the third one - and knew what he had to do - but when it came to doing it, he (often) sissied out half way through.
And the wireless thing is just a point, it's not what I believe and I don't think it's that plausible - all I'm saying is that there are a myriad of ways of explaining Neo's ability to interact with machines without him being jacked in.
Of course, the Wachowski's were kind enough to let us use our imaginations with that one. Some people figure out interesting ways of interpreting the matrix within a matrix concept, other people figure out ways that the real struggle was real.
I would personally say that Neo has some form of physical connection to the machines. Whether you want to call it telekinitis or just some freak of evolution, he has that ability, and it is what makes him unique, and what makes him a threat to the machines (which is why they developed the matrix, to control this evolutionary process).
Yeah I went and saw it at 12:30...
Uhh - it was interesting. I really *really* liked Reloaded (although the first one is obviously the best) but I can't say I came out with much satisfaction from Revolutions.
I guess it didn't quite turn out as explicitly good as I had hoped for :)
I had this idea that Neo basically never gave up, and would always go on, but I kind of feel that he stopped believing in himself and he stopped kicking arse because of that.
I probably had too high expectations for the flick though.
And Seraph was cool - but we only got like two seconds of him kicking arse and then he stood infront of the Merovingian like a marionette with no one pulling the strings. I thought the bit at the start with the train was good...uhh...yeah.
I didn't care too much for the over-glorified war stuff though.
Now that I've seen the matrix stuff to it's conclusion, I think they could have left it at the end of the first one (or even the second one) and I wouldn't complain :)