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error saving TGA alpha channels in photoshop 7

Submitted by Ninja on
Forum

hi guys [xx(] i got a major problem in photoshop 7 when saving TGA files....
i cant save the alpha channel at all.... ive heard from other forums that u cannot save TGA alpha channels for some apparent reason in photoshop 7..... [?]

now what other file formats can i use to save the alpha channels that is supported by most games engines (Tiff<--not sure about this one? ,PNG or anything else?)?

and also wat is the difference between using PNG and TGA in games engines?

thank u [:D]

chris...[:)]

Submitted by Malus on Thu, 11/09/03 - 7:02 PMPermalink

I think if you have transparency where the alpha channel would be (i.e. you can see those little checker patterns) it should save fine, Ive never had a problem but that may be it?!

Submitted by Pantmonger on Thu, 11/09/03 - 8:12 PMPermalink

I dont know whats going on with your TGA files. Whan I save as TGA in photoshop a little window opens and asks if I want to save as 36 bit (ie alpha included). As for other formats, (Cut paste comming)

quote:PNG format supports RGB, indexed-color, grayscale, and Bitmap-mode images without alpha channels. PNG preserves transparency in grayscale and RGB images.

So I dont think it will do what you want it to.
If this is just for an alpha map for the comp you can just pump out a seperate grey scale map. (it what I do all the time anyway)

Pantmonger

Submitted by redwyre on Thu, 11/09/03 - 9:24 PMPermalink

"All three PNG image types--truecolor, grayscale and palette--can have alpha information, but it's most commonly used with truecolor images."

36 bit TGA is 9 bits per channel?

(PNG supports up to 48bit)

Anyway, I prefer my final assets as .PNG, but I guess it depends on what you are using them with (ie. for a DirectX engine, DXTn might be the best format).

Submitted by Ninja on Fri, 12/09/03 - 12:00 AMPermalink

Dean, Michael, & redwyre thank u heaps for the info but i still got the tga problem, i guess ill stik to PNG for now since its only for renders not in game yet.

Thankx u once again..

chris...[:)]

Submitted by urgrund on Tue, 07/10/03 - 2:21 AMPermalink

the alpha channels in TGA's for PS7 don't "exist". I read somewhere that after research, Adobe decided TGA's weren't 'meant' to have an alpha channel.

Theres a dll u have to get from PS6 to overwrite the restriction... do a google search, it's availbe as a singel file as well to overwrite the PS7 one.

is ther such thing as a 36bit tga? and why? 8r 8g 8b 8alpha... where's the other 4 come in?

Submitted by CombatWombat on Tue, 07/10/03 - 3:56 AMPermalink

/me suspects a typo accounts for the other 4 bits as TGA spec doesn't allow for 36 bit depth :)

Submitted by Malus on Tue, 07/10/03 - 7:15 PMPermalink

not meant to have an alpha?? Why would they remove a perfectly good component of the files structure, there alphas work great.

I haven't seen anything about this but its seems unlikely.

Submitted by Ninja on Wed, 08/10/03 - 12:03 AMPermalink

yeah exactly what i thought dean !!! im still confused about it but oh wells stuck with PNG's [:)]

Submitted by CombatWombat on Wed, 08/10/03 - 3:14 AMPermalink

TGA spec definately says alpha is supported, that sounds really bizzare that PS7
would drop support for it.

PNG file loading is easily supported with libPNG - this is a really nicely done
library - very easy to use, so think you'd be right with most game engines,
Ninja.

Submitted by souri on Wed, 08/10/03 - 8:11 AMPermalink

[url="http://www.lowrestv.com/lowres/tutorials/tutorial_01.asp?tut_id=t6"]Here's a good page[/url] on saving TGA's with transparencies with Photoshop 7.. I think the usual way to save transparencies was to make a new channel and define the transparent areas and non transparent areas with black and white.. the link above says you just make a layer mask, save as TGA, and make sure you do it as 32 bits/pixel.
btw, I found that link when searching google for "photoshop 7" +tga +alpha .. guess what showed up as the first result? [:)]

Ok, just did some more searching and there seems to be a problem with Photoshop 7 and TGA transparencies.. you'll have to download a patch and upgrade to 7.01, or replace the targa plugin to do it. [url="http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/2c21a.htm?code=TA"]All the details here[/url].

Submitted by Malus on Wed, 08/10/03 - 7:04 PMPermalink

i use photoshop 7 and Ive never had a problem saving tga alphas. Wierdness.

Submitted by Ninja on Thu, 09/10/03 - 12:04 AMPermalink

thankx souri & combatwombat for that info [:)] will update PS and give that a try.... [:)]

Submitted by kingofdaveness on Mon, 20/10/03 - 6:34 AMPermalink

This is a 'BUG' in photoshop 7.0. It throws away your alpha channel.
Theres two ways to fix it. One, download the patch from the adobe website. two, find an older version of photoshop and copy paste the tga format plugin over 7's. Both fix the problem.

Needless to say I am very, very annoyed by the amount of work that was lost before we found out about this 'improvement' to photoshop.

Submitted by Ninja on Mon, 20/10/03 - 6:42 PMPermalink

hehe yeah i lost a lot of work on this as well. i had to update my photoshop as well. [:)]

Oh yeah congrats at getting the job at discreet David.[:)]

ive always been a big fan of your stuff!!!.

chris.. [:)]

Posted by Ninja on
Forum

hi guys [xx(] i got a major problem in photoshop 7 when saving TGA files....
i cant save the alpha channel at all.... ive heard from other forums that u cannot save TGA alpha channels for some apparent reason in photoshop 7..... [?]

now what other file formats can i use to save the alpha channels that is supported by most games engines (Tiff<--not sure about this one? ,PNG or anything else?)?

and also wat is the difference between using PNG and TGA in games engines?

thank u [:D]

chris...[:)]


Submitted by Malus on Thu, 11/09/03 - 7:02 PMPermalink

I think if you have transparency where the alpha channel would be (i.e. you can see those little checker patterns) it should save fine, Ive never had a problem but that may be it?!

Submitted by Pantmonger on Thu, 11/09/03 - 8:12 PMPermalink

I dont know whats going on with your TGA files. Whan I save as TGA in photoshop a little window opens and asks if I want to save as 36 bit (ie alpha included). As for other formats, (Cut paste comming)

quote:PNG format supports RGB, indexed-color, grayscale, and Bitmap-mode images without alpha channels. PNG preserves transparency in grayscale and RGB images.

So I dont think it will do what you want it to.
If this is just for an alpha map for the comp you can just pump out a seperate grey scale map. (it what I do all the time anyway)

Pantmonger

Submitted by redwyre on Thu, 11/09/03 - 9:24 PMPermalink

"All three PNG image types--truecolor, grayscale and palette--can have alpha information, but it's most commonly used with truecolor images."

36 bit TGA is 9 bits per channel?

(PNG supports up to 48bit)

Anyway, I prefer my final assets as .PNG, but I guess it depends on what you are using them with (ie. for a DirectX engine, DXTn might be the best format).

Submitted by Ninja on Fri, 12/09/03 - 12:00 AMPermalink

Dean, Michael, & redwyre thank u heaps for the info but i still got the tga problem, i guess ill stik to PNG for now since its only for renders not in game yet.

Thankx u once again..

chris...[:)]

Submitted by urgrund on Tue, 07/10/03 - 2:21 AMPermalink

the alpha channels in TGA's for PS7 don't "exist". I read somewhere that after research, Adobe decided TGA's weren't 'meant' to have an alpha channel.

Theres a dll u have to get from PS6 to overwrite the restriction... do a google search, it's availbe as a singel file as well to overwrite the PS7 one.

is ther such thing as a 36bit tga? and why? 8r 8g 8b 8alpha... where's the other 4 come in?

Submitted by CombatWombat on Tue, 07/10/03 - 3:56 AMPermalink

/me suspects a typo accounts for the other 4 bits as TGA spec doesn't allow for 36 bit depth :)

Submitted by Malus on Tue, 07/10/03 - 7:15 PMPermalink

not meant to have an alpha?? Why would they remove a perfectly good component of the files structure, there alphas work great.

I haven't seen anything about this but its seems unlikely.

Submitted by Ninja on Wed, 08/10/03 - 12:03 AMPermalink

yeah exactly what i thought dean !!! im still confused about it but oh wells stuck with PNG's [:)]

Submitted by CombatWombat on Wed, 08/10/03 - 3:14 AMPermalink

TGA spec definately says alpha is supported, that sounds really bizzare that PS7
would drop support for it.

PNG file loading is easily supported with libPNG - this is a really nicely done
library - very easy to use, so think you'd be right with most game engines,
Ninja.

Submitted by souri on Wed, 08/10/03 - 8:11 AMPermalink

[url="http://www.lowrestv.com/lowres/tutorials/tutorial_01.asp?tut_id=t6"]Here's a good page[/url] on saving TGA's with transparencies with Photoshop 7.. I think the usual way to save transparencies was to make a new channel and define the transparent areas and non transparent areas with black and white.. the link above says you just make a layer mask, save as TGA, and make sure you do it as 32 bits/pixel.
btw, I found that link when searching google for "photoshop 7" +tga +alpha .. guess what showed up as the first result? [:)]

Ok, just did some more searching and there seems to be a problem with Photoshop 7 and TGA transparencies.. you'll have to download a patch and upgrade to 7.01, or replace the targa plugin to do it. [url="http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/2c21a.htm?code=TA"]All the details here[/url].

Submitted by Malus on Wed, 08/10/03 - 7:04 PMPermalink

i use photoshop 7 and Ive never had a problem saving tga alphas. Wierdness.

Submitted by Ninja on Thu, 09/10/03 - 12:04 AMPermalink

thankx souri & combatwombat for that info [:)] will update PS and give that a try.... [:)]

Submitted by kingofdaveness on Mon, 20/10/03 - 6:34 AMPermalink

This is a 'BUG' in photoshop 7.0. It throws away your alpha channel.
Theres two ways to fix it. One, download the patch from the adobe website. two, find an older version of photoshop and copy paste the tga format plugin over 7's. Both fix the problem.

Needless to say I am very, very annoyed by the amount of work that was lost before we found out about this 'improvement' to photoshop.

Submitted by Ninja on Mon, 20/10/03 - 6:42 PMPermalink

hehe yeah i lost a lot of work on this as well. i had to update my photoshop as well. [:)]

Oh yeah congrats at getting the job at discreet David.[:)]

ive always been a big fan of your stuff!!!.

chris.. [:)]