Aspiring Artist in Melbourne: AIE, Qantm, RMIT TAFE, Business/Marketing course? HELP!

Forum
Industry and Education

Hi there! First thread and I am so glad I found tsumea. (:

FIRST THINGS:
I've skimmed through most of the Qantm/AIE and all Australian-related threads here already. [Why is there bad rap about AIE?]
I visited Melbourne Qantm [tour/interview] and AIE [tour only] yesterday too.
I know this industry is portfolio based,
you need to be REALLY good at what you do,
there's no "best" institution,
you don't need a degree,
you need to be really persistent
and many more experienced people are out there looking for jobs
and basically this industry is looking really bad; now focused on mobile games.

But here are my questions first [then background] in case anyone here can put forth their two cents:

QUESTIONS
1. Who knows/heard of/has completed/is doing:
-For Animation: Qantm Melbourne's Bachelor of Interactive Entertainment (Animation)? [2yr]
-Or Melbourne's Academy of Interactive Entertainment's [AIE] Advanced Diploma in Game Development [Game Art or Film/TV]? [2yr]
-Or Diploma/Advanced Diploma in Interactive Digital Media [IDM/Multimedia] from RMIT? Or from Victoria University, Swinburne, Holmesglen? [2yr]

Graduates/current students?

a) If so, how are their facilities and their availability for use?
b) How are the teachers & industry experiences?
c) What sorts of industry connections are there? Placements? Events?
d) Are all the basic foundations & technical skills there? [I know most advanced stuff will be self taught however] To what standard are they being taught? [ie basic, intermediate, expert, industry standard, etc]

2. I'm looking for a course that involves as much of the following while the others, I am willing to learn from other ways:

Passionate about: Illustrative, Visual Storytelling, Character design, Concept art, Concept building, Colour theory, Design principles side of things, Digital arts, advancing my Drawing, computer and technical skills [traditional and digital]. [even animation]

Will learn if needed: Website development and coding, manage a business/business course, marketing myself, networking, collaborations, 3D animation, 2D animation, creating my website, responding to briefs/projects, graphic design, getting work experience/placement/internships, technology, and everything else to ensure I'm on top of the changing industry.

3. Where do I learn business/marketing? Is there an online place I can learn it from? Anything free if possible? Point me to somewhere?

4. MY CHOICES:
**Melbourne's Academy of Interactive Entertainment's [AIE] Advanced Diploma in Game Development [Game Art or Film/TV/VFX]? [2yr] -- [bit of life drawing + game art + collaborative work + 3D art technical mainly, isn't it?]
**Qantm Melbourne's Bachelor of Interactive Entertainment (Animation) [2yr] -- [generalist course + design + mobile game design + 3d basics with maya + animation it sounds like]
**Diploma/Advanced Diploma in Interactive Digital Media [IDM/Multimedia] from RMIT? Or from Victoria University, Swinburne, Holmesglen? [2yr] -- generalist/keeping options open where you do the basics for each venue [web, coding, sound, 3d, animation, etc] but don't master anything
**A business/marketing course I'll do so I can manage finances and that
**Do self study only [as planned above]
**Do self study + do a business/marketing course

What I plan to do:

Study Andrew Loomis books and other anatomy books. Then get subscriptions at Gnomon and/or Digital Tutor. I don't know whether I can afford Animation Mentor and the others.

BACKGROUND
Since deciding on my career change to study from 2012 onwards, I went from applying to Graphic Design [GD] to IDM and now considering animation. I cannot apply to complete an actual degree at RMIT for the Bach. of animation as I am past the cut off date for the start of next year thus this is why I'm applying to do the TAFE and get my way into the degree afterwards.

I've always been self taught and my first GD interview told me that I suit Concept Design/Illustration/Animation/Digital Art. My second RMIT TAFE GD interview told me I am "ideal" for Graphic Design. My first RMIT TAFE IDM interview told me that I can do anything without a degree as long as you have connections & a brilliant portfolio. Still, I desire the networking opportunities a course could bring, getting out of home & see and collaborate with like minded people and industry placements else I would stick to studying by myself and am very tempted by TAD, Schoolism by Imaginism Studios, Gnormon Workshop DVDs but I wouldn't know where to start and I am not wealthy either.

My passions are listed in the first list of things in Question 2 above while the second list is what I understand is ideal to survive as an artist. I am not sure about Graphic Design anymore as I am not passionate with what they produce.

I've been going for interviews in Graphic design, Interactive Digital Media and did an interview yesterday for the Qantm Bach. of Interactive Entertainment (Animation). So far:
For TAFE GD: Victoria University, RMIT
For TAFE IDM: Victoria University, Swinburne, RMIT
For Animation: Qantm or AIE
For Game Art or Film/TV/VFX: AIE

This thread is another way I'm trying to investigate my options.

In short: HELP!!! I need opinions. I've got till mid December left for most of the above courses before time's up.

All this research is a bit draining but I need to be sure of my investment. I know there is no right way about it, essentially it's all in your effort/luck/networking, there isn't the "bestest" course in general, but I want some advice/suggestions considering my options.
I appreciate your time and suggestions (:

Submitted by Cameron Bonde (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/11 - 2:16 PMPermalink

That's what I like to see, someone who actually knows what they don't know :)
Anyway, not sure what the policy is on talking about courses here, so I'll avoid advertising much (it is the education forum so..). I'm one of the teachers at the VU Tafe games course. Ours might be a good fit since it covers a bit of everything over 1.5 years. It's all portfolio based. Since you're mainly interested in graphic design I'll point you to one of our teachers work (the other guys are just as good, his work is the 3d parts mostly)
http://fraktalvoid.com/

Check out the page here or give me a call if you want to chat about it
http://creativeindustries.vu.edu.au/games-development.html
Cam - 0403735668

Submitted by leonieyue on Fri, 02/12/11 - 10:00 AMPermalink

Hi there Cam and thanks for commenting,

I'm not that interested in graphic design as that covers logos, brands, briefs, editorial layouts, packaging, print which is not what I'm looking for. I will learn it if I must, but it's not my focus.

Isn't your course now titled the Advanced Diploma of Interactive Digital Media now with three different streams? I've applied to do an interview already but nothing's arranged yet from VU. There's a Web/social networking stream, TV/film stream, and games development stream.
I don't know which to go into really. So the course isn't 2 years?
To what standard are you taught web? For 3D modeling and animation? [basics, intermediate, expert?]
Are there any fundamentals to animation, drawing, storyboarding, life drawing, concept art?
How technical does it get? Is this just only 3D modeling?

Please email me instead with your answers if you must be cautious at: uuuinfinity (at) gmail (dot) com

Submitted by leonieyue on Fri, 02/12/11 - 12:01 PMPermalink

Hey everyone, I've changed my Original Post a bit but the changes are:

QUESTION 2:
2. I'm looking for a course that involves as much of the following while the others, I am willing to learn from other ways:

Passionate about: Illustrative, Visual Storytelling, Character design, Concept art, Concept building, Colour theory, Design principles side of things, Digital arts, advancing my Drawing, computer and technical skills [traditional and digital]. [even animation]

Will learn if needed: Website development and coding, manage a business/business course, marketing myself, networking, collaborations, 3D animation, 2D animation, creating my website, responding to briefs/projects, graphic design, getting work experience/placement/internships, technology, and everything else to ensure I'm on top of the changing industry.

QUESTION 4, MY CHOICES:
**Melbourne's Academy of Interactive Entertainment's [AIE] Advanced Diploma in Game Development [Game Art or Film/TV/VFX]? [2yr] -- [bit of life drawing + game art + collaborative work + 3D art technical mainly, isn't it?]
**Qantm Melbourne's Bachelor of Interactive Entertainment (Animation) [2yr] -- [generalist course + design + mobile game design + 3d basics with maya + animation it sounds like]
**Diploma/Advanced Diploma in Interactive Digital Media [IDM/Multimedia] from RMIT? Or from Victoria University, Swinburne, Holmesglen? [2yr] -- generalist/keeping options open where you do the basics for each venue [web, coding, sound, 3d, animation, etc] but don't master anything
**A business/marketing course I'll do so I can manage finances and that
**Do self study only [as planned below]
**Do self study + do a business/marketing course

So which option should I go towards?

What I plan to do in my own time regardless:

Study Andrew Loomis books and other anatomy books. Then get subscriptions at Gnomon and/or Digital Tutor. I don't know whether I can afford Animation Mentor and the others.

Submitted by HungryJackson (not verified) on Wed, 11/01/12 - 1:16 AMPermalink

I'm interested in level/environment design as well as building story and characters, and I've also decided to make 2012 the year of new career paths. In 2011, I looked at almost every course relating to video games development (programming and animation), I've also done short courses at RMIT and Victoria University Maya, 3DS Max and ZBrush all the basic stuff and intermediate character design with maya - out of all the places I've been to AIE was probably the highlight... I just decided to bite the bullet and go for both AIE and Qantm... Adv Dip in Game Development - Specialising in Art (AIE) and the Bachelor of Interactive Entertainment - Major Animation(Qantm).
I tried applying directly through the schools, but got knocked back and told I had to sign up with vtac with all the kiddies. I got accepted into both courses through vtac & interviews. I'm kinda shocked that I had to go through vtac for AIE because it is an Adv Dip. after all! If I didn't do those short courses at RMIT and Vic Uni it would have been a lot harder to make my decision... but I guess it comes down to what kind of work you want to be doing after you complete the course... If you are aiming for a job in the games industry AIE has an awesome course structure, covering everything you're looking for plus environment design, etc - when doing 2nd year of the adv dip. you'll get together with the programming students to create a game. Which would look amazing for your portfolio. Qantm's bachelor - what can i say? seems to suit your needs to a T, as well as possibly appeal to broader fields of occupation (lets say you want to get into advertising or something)... the other thing to remember is Qantm is international, so if you are looking for work abroad a Qantm certificate will not be overlooked, but AIE is only recognised Australia wide... but AIE doesn't have a BAD wrap - it has no wrap... the school hasn't been around for long enough. Qantm... eerrr I have heard a couple of whoppers but not in relation to the melbourne campus
(but im sure you know all this boring stuff - I'm spewing I didn't see this post earlier - but whatever you choose you seem to be on the right track - hopefully my ramblings help you a little. Best of luck to you!)

Submitted by leonieyue on Fri, 06/04/12 - 10:43 AMPermalink

I didn't realise you've replied until now!

I'm currently doing a Masters of Multimedia, considering a course change by the end of this semester.
I figure I may be more suited to graphic design yet I know 3D is a growing industry I'd like to explore into to see whether I'm suited towards the field.

Thanks for your time in your rambling; great to see a fellow rambler!
I'll be happy to stay connected with you though, my blog is at uuuinfinity.blogspot.com where you can find my twitter, google+ and facebook page (:

Posted by leonieyue on
Forum
Industry and Education

Hi there! First thread and I am so glad I found tsumea. (:

FIRST THINGS:
I've skimmed through most of the Qantm/AIE and all Australian-related threads here already. [Why is there bad rap about AIE?]
I visited Melbourne Qantm [tour/interview] and AIE [tour only] yesterday too.
I know this industry is portfolio based,
you need to be REALLY good at what you do,
there's no "best" institution,
you don't need a degree,
you need to be really persistent
and many more experienced people are out there looking for jobs
and basically this industry is looking really bad; now focused on mobile games.

But here are my questions first [then background] in case anyone here can put forth their two cents:

QUESTIONS
1. Who knows/heard of/has completed/is doing:
-For Animation: Qantm Melbourne's Bachelor of Interactive Entertainment (Animation)? [2yr]
-Or Melbourne's Academy of Interactive Entertainment's [AIE] Advanced Diploma in Game Development [Game Art or Film/TV]? [2yr]
-Or Diploma/Advanced Diploma in Interactive Digital Media [IDM/Multimedia] from RMIT? Or from Victoria University, Swinburne, Holmesglen? [2yr]

Graduates/current students?

a) If so, how are their facilities and their availability for use?
b) How are the teachers & industry experiences?
c) What sorts of industry connections are there? Placements? Events?
d) Are all the basic foundations & technical skills there? [I know most advanced stuff will be self taught however] To what standard are they being taught? [ie basic, intermediate, expert, industry standard, etc]

2. I'm looking for a course that involves as much of the following while the others, I am willing to learn from other ways:

Passionate about: Illustrative, Visual Storytelling, Character design, Concept art, Concept building, Colour theory, Design principles side of things, Digital arts, advancing my Drawing, computer and technical skills [traditional and digital]. [even animation]

Will learn if needed: Website development and coding, manage a business/business course, marketing myself, networking, collaborations, 3D animation, 2D animation, creating my website, responding to briefs/projects, graphic design, getting work experience/placement/internships, technology, and everything else to ensure I'm on top of the changing industry.

3. Where do I learn business/marketing? Is there an online place I can learn it from? Anything free if possible? Point me to somewhere?

4. MY CHOICES:
**Melbourne's Academy of Interactive Entertainment's [AIE] Advanced Diploma in Game Development [Game Art or Film/TV/VFX]? [2yr] -- [bit of life drawing + game art + collaborative work + 3D art technical mainly, isn't it?]
**Qantm Melbourne's Bachelor of Interactive Entertainment (Animation) [2yr] -- [generalist course + design + mobile game design + 3d basics with maya + animation it sounds like]
**Diploma/Advanced Diploma in Interactive Digital Media [IDM/Multimedia] from RMIT? Or from Victoria University, Swinburne, Holmesglen? [2yr] -- generalist/keeping options open where you do the basics for each venue [web, coding, sound, 3d, animation, etc] but don't master anything
**A business/marketing course I'll do so I can manage finances and that
**Do self study only [as planned above]
**Do self study + do a business/marketing course

What I plan to do:

Study Andrew Loomis books and other anatomy books. Then get subscriptions at Gnomon and/or Digital Tutor. I don't know whether I can afford Animation Mentor and the others.

BACKGROUND
Since deciding on my career change to study from 2012 onwards, I went from applying to Graphic Design [GD] to IDM and now considering animation. I cannot apply to complete an actual degree at RMIT for the Bach. of animation as I am past the cut off date for the start of next year thus this is why I'm applying to do the TAFE and get my way into the degree afterwards.

I've always been self taught and my first GD interview told me that I suit Concept Design/Illustration/Animation/Digital Art. My second RMIT TAFE GD interview told me I am "ideal" for Graphic Design. My first RMIT TAFE IDM interview told me that I can do anything without a degree as long as you have connections & a brilliant portfolio. Still, I desire the networking opportunities a course could bring, getting out of home & see and collaborate with like minded people and industry placements else I would stick to studying by myself and am very tempted by TAD, Schoolism by Imaginism Studios, Gnormon Workshop DVDs but I wouldn't know where to start and I am not wealthy either.

My passions are listed in the first list of things in Question 2 above while the second list is what I understand is ideal to survive as an artist. I am not sure about Graphic Design anymore as I am not passionate with what they produce.

I've been going for interviews in Graphic design, Interactive Digital Media and did an interview yesterday for the Qantm Bach. of Interactive Entertainment (Animation). So far:
For TAFE GD: Victoria University, RMIT
For TAFE IDM: Victoria University, Swinburne, RMIT
For Animation: Qantm or AIE
For Game Art or Film/TV/VFX: AIE

This thread is another way I'm trying to investigate my options.

In short: HELP!!! I need opinions. I've got till mid December left for most of the above courses before time's up.

All this research is a bit draining but I need to be sure of my investment. I know there is no right way about it, essentially it's all in your effort/luck/networking, there isn't the "bestest" course in general, but I want some advice/suggestions considering my options.
I appreciate your time and suggestions (:

Submitted by Cameron Bonde (not verified) on Thu, 01/12/11 - 2:16 PMPermalink

That's what I like to see, someone who actually knows what they don't know :)
Anyway, not sure what the policy is on talking about courses here, so I'll avoid advertising much (it is the education forum so..). I'm one of the teachers at the VU Tafe games course. Ours might be a good fit since it covers a bit of everything over 1.5 years. It's all portfolio based. Since you're mainly interested in graphic design I'll point you to one of our teachers work (the other guys are just as good, his work is the 3d parts mostly)
http://fraktalvoid.com/

Check out the page here or give me a call if you want to chat about it
http://creativeindustries.vu.edu.au/games-development.html
Cam - 0403735668

Submitted by leonieyue on Fri, 02/12/11 - 10:00 AMPermalink

Hi there Cam and thanks for commenting,

I'm not that interested in graphic design as that covers logos, brands, briefs, editorial layouts, packaging, print which is not what I'm looking for. I will learn it if I must, but it's not my focus.

Isn't your course now titled the Advanced Diploma of Interactive Digital Media now with three different streams? I've applied to do an interview already but nothing's arranged yet from VU. There's a Web/social networking stream, TV/film stream, and games development stream.
I don't know which to go into really. So the course isn't 2 years?
To what standard are you taught web? For 3D modeling and animation? [basics, intermediate, expert?]
Are there any fundamentals to animation, drawing, storyboarding, life drawing, concept art?
How technical does it get? Is this just only 3D modeling?

Please email me instead with your answers if you must be cautious at: uuuinfinity (at) gmail (dot) com

Submitted by leonieyue on Fri, 02/12/11 - 12:01 PMPermalink

Hey everyone, I've changed my Original Post a bit but the changes are:

QUESTION 2:
2. I'm looking for a course that involves as much of the following while the others, I am willing to learn from other ways:

Passionate about: Illustrative, Visual Storytelling, Character design, Concept art, Concept building, Colour theory, Design principles side of things, Digital arts, advancing my Drawing, computer and technical skills [traditional and digital]. [even animation]

Will learn if needed: Website development and coding, manage a business/business course, marketing myself, networking, collaborations, 3D animation, 2D animation, creating my website, responding to briefs/projects, graphic design, getting work experience/placement/internships, technology, and everything else to ensure I'm on top of the changing industry.

QUESTION 4, MY CHOICES:
**Melbourne's Academy of Interactive Entertainment's [AIE] Advanced Diploma in Game Development [Game Art or Film/TV/VFX]? [2yr] -- [bit of life drawing + game art + collaborative work + 3D art technical mainly, isn't it?]
**Qantm Melbourne's Bachelor of Interactive Entertainment (Animation) [2yr] -- [generalist course + design + mobile game design + 3d basics with maya + animation it sounds like]
**Diploma/Advanced Diploma in Interactive Digital Media [IDM/Multimedia] from RMIT? Or from Victoria University, Swinburne, Holmesglen? [2yr] -- generalist/keeping options open where you do the basics for each venue [web, coding, sound, 3d, animation, etc] but don't master anything
**A business/marketing course I'll do so I can manage finances and that
**Do self study only [as planned below]
**Do self study + do a business/marketing course

So which option should I go towards?

What I plan to do in my own time regardless:

Study Andrew Loomis books and other anatomy books. Then get subscriptions at Gnomon and/or Digital Tutor. I don't know whether I can afford Animation Mentor and the others.

Submitted by HungryJackson (not verified) on Wed, 11/01/12 - 1:16 AMPermalink

I'm interested in level/environment design as well as building story and characters, and I've also decided to make 2012 the year of new career paths. In 2011, I looked at almost every course relating to video games development (programming and animation), I've also done short courses at RMIT and Victoria University Maya, 3DS Max and ZBrush all the basic stuff and intermediate character design with maya - out of all the places I've been to AIE was probably the highlight... I just decided to bite the bullet and go for both AIE and Qantm... Adv Dip in Game Development - Specialising in Art (AIE) and the Bachelor of Interactive Entertainment - Major Animation(Qantm).
I tried applying directly through the schools, but got knocked back and told I had to sign up with vtac with all the kiddies. I got accepted into both courses through vtac & interviews. I'm kinda shocked that I had to go through vtac for AIE because it is an Adv Dip. after all! If I didn't do those short courses at RMIT and Vic Uni it would have been a lot harder to make my decision... but I guess it comes down to what kind of work you want to be doing after you complete the course... If you are aiming for a job in the games industry AIE has an awesome course structure, covering everything you're looking for plus environment design, etc - when doing 2nd year of the adv dip. you'll get together with the programming students to create a game. Which would look amazing for your portfolio. Qantm's bachelor - what can i say? seems to suit your needs to a T, as well as possibly appeal to broader fields of occupation (lets say you want to get into advertising or something)... the other thing to remember is Qantm is international, so if you are looking for work abroad a Qantm certificate will not be overlooked, but AIE is only recognised Australia wide... but AIE doesn't have a BAD wrap - it has no wrap... the school hasn't been around for long enough. Qantm... eerrr I have heard a couple of whoppers but not in relation to the melbourne campus
(but im sure you know all this boring stuff - I'm spewing I didn't see this post earlier - but whatever you choose you seem to be on the right track - hopefully my ramblings help you a little. Best of luck to you!)

Submitted by leonieyue on Fri, 06/04/12 - 10:43 AMPermalink

I didn't realise you've replied until now!

I'm currently doing a Masters of Multimedia, considering a course change by the end of this semester.
I figure I may be more suited to graphic design yet I know 3D is a growing industry I'd like to explore into to see whether I'm suited towards the field.

Thanks for your time in your rambling; great to see a fellow rambler!
I'll be happy to stay connected with you though, my blog is at uuuinfinity.blogspot.com where you can find my twitter, google+ and facebook page (: