Australian Launch for Wii on December 7th

...

I'll be getting one. :D

Wiill probably stiill get one :( just maybe an imported one now.

The other issuse is that many of the games are intended to be multiplayer - so you will need to buy extra controllers - at nearly $80 each :) So $399 is just the start. Id expect to end up paying 550-650 with memcard and couple of controllers.

I want to see the release list though - this is a purely games only machine, so Id like to see what will be available. Please, no Mario, Zelda or Nintendogs.. Id like to see some RE4 goodness, or some decent controller games (not just the eye toy type ones thety are bundling).

What I think we'l find though is the price will come down soon after launch, the price, when combined with the added expense of extra controllers (remote and nunchuck are seperate by the way) and then australia's inflated games prices, it all adds up to be not so mass market friendly as Nintendo we claiming.

They know all the hardcore gamers and the fanboys will lap this ting up at launch though, no mater the price, so they'll make their initial profit then drop it a few months latter once the word has got around and the casual players are interested. At least that's one likely scenario, though the DS didn't drop in price for some time, so who knows...

$250US = (approx) $330 + 10(percent) GST = (approx) $365.

I picked up an import N64 when it came out, and completely regretted it. The games ended up being more expensive, and rarer - in the end I picked up a Aust N64 as well. So it cost a lot more in the long run.

I do think the controllers are overly expensive though - it should be $50(AU) for a Wiimote + Numchunk (combined). I haven't seen a lot of games you can just play with the Wiimote.

The first price drop for the Wii is likely to be to $299, rather than $349 at least.

PS: For those interested, Toys R Us (were?) having a deal where you preorder a Wii (pay $50 now), and get a game for free. I don't expect the game to be Zelda, but it had better be something I actually want to play.

PPS: The price isn't that different from a PSP. I know which of these I would rather blow $400 bucks on...

And its funny people compare a PSP with a console - they are entirely different machines? Why the comparison? Thats like saying Im not going to get a Viedo iPod because its too expensive in comparison? Different markets.. different machines. Wii is a low cost, cheap end of the market device - just read the money spent on R&D and the hardware included, essenitally a slightly souped up GameCube. So thats why its at the cheaper end of the console range - dont get all Nintendo-ish and try and make excuses for it.. thats plain silly.

Nintendo is easily the most profitable of the three platform holders - with M$ losing heaps of cash on the Xbox & 360, and Sony being in a complete roller-coaster with their finances. Sony's figures are hard to interpret as well, as they are mixed in with their group figures (sales of TVs, etc). And unlike MS or Sony, Nintendo make the majority of their profit from software - not hardware or 3rd party license fees.

Here is an except from their press release (Monday July 24, 2006):

"Nintendo's fiscal first-quarter profit rose 10 percent on sales of the DS Lite. Net income climbed to 15.6 billion yen ($134 million) in the three months ended June 30, from 14.1 billion yen a year earlier, the Kyoto-based company said in a statement today. Nintendo increased its annual profit forecast to 83 billion yen ($711 million), from a previous estimate of 65 billion yen ($557 million). Sales surged 85(percent)."

If you have any REAL figures or facts to the contrary, I'd love to see them.

BTW - the same press release stated that 21.2million DS units (sold) worldwide, with another 17million forecast sales in this FY. That will take total worldwide sales to close on 35 million units by March '07.

The comparison to a PSP (pricewise) is very valid. They are both game machines, and both in the hunt for the Xmas gaming dollar this year.

Now it may be true, that Nintendo may end up out-selling the PSP with the DS in the long-term. But, have a long think about what it means for a company entering a new market where there has only been one company and no competitor for so long, yet, currently they are on a pretty equal footing with the current market leader.

For Sony to sell 21 million units worldwide for the PSP. Well that is really great for a first attempt in the handheld market Shams. And we haven't even begun to reach the end of the current generations life-cycles yet.

You never know, Sony just may very well sell more units and may end up overtaking the DS due to its tech having a longer life-span. And even if it doesn't. They have had a lot of success for their first foray into the handheld arena.

The PSP is in no way a failure.

Hence the launching in Japan rather than Europe - and hence the price cut to the base model PS3 announced in Japan (which makes it much more competitive vrs the Wii).

The PSP has *not* sold 21mill units worldwide - or even close. It may have shipped that many (which is what Sony care about - as that is what they are being PAID for), but of course that affects additional shipments, and when they are ordered (etc). The last stats I have seen show the PSP as coming last in hardware sales in the US (compared to the DS, PS2, 360, GBA - ignoring the "dead" consoles - the GC & Xbox), and it is currently being outsold by the PS2 in Japan (and no need to mention the DS). The DS is also strongly outselling the PSP in Europe at the moment.

Is the PSP a failure? Definitely not - nor have I said that it is. All I said (if you read my first post a week or 2 back), was that Sony need to change something over the next 12 months, or the PSP will fall too far behind the DS to catch up in the future. I have read a couple of reports now that claim that Sony have to (and will) cut the price of the PSP this Xmas. Its been about 1.5 years without a significant price cut after all. Or they may tough it out, and hope that the flood of PSP titles (and there *is* a flood coming out this Xmas - headlined by yet another GTA title) - drive sales, and profits. Then maybe a price cut next year.

Another comment on the PSP as well:
Sony's philosophy with their hardware is definitely to run it on a 5-6 year cycle. They may not even make money off it for a few years (and if they do - great). The PSP is their "first" foray into handheld gaming - but its also the most significant one. I believe many people bought a PSP when it first came out, due to the fact that it is a "handheld Playstation".

But - due to the nature of the console - its *much* harder for Sony to bring out another model, or even a sequel to the PSP (for 5 or 6 years at least). Handheld designs are more heavily driven by power consumption, battery life, weight (etc) than their console cousins - so its a lot harder to bring out a device that has gfx, say 10x better than the old version. Sure the gfx on the PSP *could* be better - but it doesn't make that much difference to the machine overall. Its already got wireless networking, high-res screen, can use a camera, GPS, memory sticks, can play music, movies, etc. So what *would* they with a sequel (or V2 of the device)? (No point to make something with PS3 gfx, that weights a tonne, and lasts 30 in battery time.)
(I'd be interested to hear some ideas...).

On the other hand, I can see some real potential for a DS v2.0 (or even a DS Deluxe) - but I'll blabber about that some other time :).

And your info is wrong. PSP is FAR outselling the DS in UK visit a few statistics sites. In fact PSP holds all the sales records for handhelds in UK/Europe at the moment - fastest selling (185,000 in its first week), highest selling games (GTA Liberty Stories), and others (monthly and quartely sales). Since its dramatic launch in September.

Your comment for Sony to bring out a new model is "much harder" is also rediculous fanboy commentry. Sony are a massive electronics manufacturer, and have been for quite a while now. To suggest they are less able to bring out new hardware or that they would have a more difficult time than Nintendo is simply wrong. Not even vaguely justafiable from any perspective. This is classic fanboy junk - stop trying to find reasons for the PSP to be bad - many people have bought it, many ppl play it. In fact many millions have bought GTA for instance, and even games like Ridge Racer and so forth have sold into the millions, the DS isnt the only handheld platform with million sellers.

Also, again your understanding of the PSP is typical of someone who doesnt own one. My PSP original battery gets in excess of 3 hours gameplay - which beleive it or not, is actually similar to my original DS battery life. So please, enough with the classic fanboy biggotry - quoting that sort of gear makes you look foolish. Next you'll say the PSP has more pixel problems than DS? I have two DS's with each having a dead red and blue pixel, and none of the two PSP's I bought. Fact is, your silly prattle is from a N fan who doesnt care for factual information, but rather listens to the typical N BS.. that gets rattled around everywhere like an old sad tune.

Shams - get over it Id suggest. Like Many Nintendo fans you are stuck in that little Nintendo alcove of life, and cant see the facts, and attempt to make up excuses for a much more expensive platform (in fact a product not even in the same feature bracket) doing so well in the handheld market. The 'shipping' thing is a classic N fan excuse, the fact remains, demand for both is pretty decent. And for a handheld costing twice the price of a competitor is outstanding.

There is no 'dwindling' in PSP sales, nor is there reduction in projects under development for it - ask the Krome lads for instance. In fact there are a large number of developers in Aus developing for PSP - hardly a sign of 'something wrong' with the PSP market. Also, there is 'no catching up' to do. You need to look at the markets from the COMPANIES point of view, rather than from that of a fanboys perspective. From a Company view, Sony has gone to having 21 million sales of PSP within just over a year and a bit (March 2006). So Sony is very happy, because now it has a solid market to sell games too, and accessories, and applications.

From Nintendo's perspective, they are looking at a market reduction. From 80 million GBA owenrs.. to currently 21 million DS owners. Nintendo have the problem, of trying to get people to upgrade to DS, and get them NOT to choose a PSP. Fact is, there is alot of crossover anyway, many people do own a PSP and DS. So for Nintnedo, their goal is to try and reach an 80 million market again, to maintain their profit margins. Every PSP sold is a potential GBA upgrader gone away from that market. In Sony terms.. every sale.. is an addition to a new market.

For financial info, READ NINTENDOS FINANCIAL DOCUMENTS. They are online, and available to all. Go to nintendio website, visit corporate information and downalod their latest financial record (June was their last one). If you compare with with last years profits and sales - you will see the downward trend (esp from the GBA sales - this is where they are hurting). The DS is yet to replace the demand they managed to get from the GBA. Simple as that. Stop being a fanboy and read the facts.

As any marketing person, and this is not an ideal position to be in. And cheaper doesnt always mean more sales, especially if they arent backed with competitive features - GC proved this. Its silly to assume that because people 'say' handheld A is selling better than handheld B, that its true - especially when it comes from fansites. And its even more stupid to compare console like the Wii to a handheld like the PSP. Its a silly fanboy comparison.

And I should point out that in the above commentry, the the press info Shams quoted was only from a quaterly perspective. You need to read annual comparisons to see the trends,, because sales vary hugely depending on the season (ie quarter).

It is also interesting to note that the Wii will see a profit per sale (where as consoles in the past have been sold at a loss, the Xbox took a huge hit, and people shudder to wonder what the PS3 is going to cost Sony per unit...), which means that an attach ratio (games per system) is irrelevant to recouping console costs. Not that they wouldn't want a high attach ratio of course, that's all profit, but it is something to consider when comparing GC sales/profits to the Wii.

.....................
"100 billion yen expected by March 2007"

The continued success of Nintendo's DS handheld, combined with a weak yen, has resulted in the company raising its net profit projections for the year to March by 18 per cent.

Nintendo now expects a net profit of 100 billion yen (EUR 667 million), up from 83 billion previously projected.
The company expects to shift 82 million DS game units along with 3.3 million GBA sales during the period.

Nintendo recently announced it expects to sell 10 million DS hardware units in Europe by the end of the year.
........................

I am personally suffering from a lack of time to play new games as well, having picked up Mario Hoops 3-3 &, Starfox Assault (and with close to 10 more DS games I would like to get by the end of the year - and that's ignoring the Wii release :P).

Shams - you are the sadly bewildered one. Because you simply follow the usual fanboy junket. Seen everywhere by N fans. You hate to see reality, and you hate to see what the market is actually doing, because then your beloved hardware seems less than it should be (which imho is bizarre as a developer). I have never once said the DS is doing horribly.. nor.. the PSP.. and have never aligned myself with either - they both have their plusses and minuses. But you are the typical one-eyed fanyboy that doesnt like looking at both sides of the fence, and if you are a developer, it will hamper your ability to make market decisions. Thats your bad luck I guess.

Again - download the fiscal reports for the companies. They are all free. All available. I'd post their adresses but I cant. They are all easy enough to get, to read though (visit the corporate sections of the company sites, then the financial reports). And they all detail what these companies are doing. Imho so few people read these, and rely on anlysts hype they dont even realise what the actual units moving are.

Also LiveWire - I think it was mentioned before, not sure. But Nintendo havent yet reported their R&D costs for the Wii - it is expected to be included in the quarter ending March 2007. This R&D cost is also expected to be pretty sizable. There is no such thing as Nintendo making profit on HW until they have paid for production of the system. That goes for all the systems. The Wii will need to sell X amount before they start making money on it, simple as that. The GC is a good example of a piece of hardware that has cost Nintnedo money. See page 18 of the last annual Nintendo financial for the Revenue & Expenditure - GC cost Nintendo money to produce (due to poor sales ie reduced demand, too many made). Of course the development of the PS3 and X360 was much larger than the Wii, so it is expected Nintendo will enter proffits sooner - but, if you account for pricing of the units, it will entirely depend on units sold whether this occurs or not. There is no crystal ball that will give the answer of this, and some costs on PS3 are shared for instance - the Cell costs are shared amoung STI members, and BD costs are also shared amoung various members (TDK, Toshiba, and others). So to determine the profits, the only way will be to look at the financials _after_ the units have gone to retailers.

In general I don't see any point to replying to your posts anymore - you ignore what was posted, have your rant, never quote real/facts/figures and are completely negative/pesamistic. But as I have a "quiet" period here at work, I'll make an exception.

Yes - Nintendo stuffed up with the GC. I have various theories about this, but as you will no doubt flame away I won't bother discussing them.

Forget the real facts? Hang on - I am the one posting the press releases - you are the one disputing them (or are you? what are you trying to say?). Your facts for the DS in the first year are completely wrong BTW - it sold much better than Nintendo was expecting. As did the software. Show me the figures if you think I am wrong - its not that hard to post them.

As for aligning yourself - I would say you have done a pretty job of stamping "HUGE SONY FANBOY" on your forehead with both hands. Try going back and actually reading what you have written for once. And I will remind you was that I did to "start this" was state how well the DS is doing in the marketplace, *especially* compared to the PSP. Now is that stuff of "FANBOY" material, or is that actually based on FACT? You still haven't quoted a single figure (from *any* territory) to disprove that.

I have found some positive stats for the PSP - Madden on the PSP easily outsold the DS (50k to 7k), although it was (predictably) still trumped by the 360 and PS2 skews (500k, 1.1mill). And in general, PSP software volume (for an *average* month) in the US is about 70(percent) of the DS software volume - not bad for a console that is convincingly being beaten in terms of monthly hardware sales (source: NPD sales figures for the US last month).

And as for the whole R&D costs thing - you are straight out WRONG. The Wii (as other consoles) has been in development for several YEARS - and the total development budget is being covered on a month-to-month basis. The figures everyone talks about is simply the MANUFACTURING cost per hardware unit. If this figure is more than the retail/shipping cost, then you lose MORE money for each unit sold (rather than making money back). And I am sure you realise all this, but feel like skewing the facts somehow.

And finally - as I have stated (at least) once already - Nintendo make the majority of their profits from SOFTWARE. And not from licensing/manufacturing fees, but from the sale of 1st party titles. This is quite different from both Sony and Microsoft. So the economics are different, and there are very different factors that affect overall company profits, etc. Go ahead - admit to everyone that Nintendo is doing quite well (3 profit ungrades in one year) and that the DS is the primary reason behind this.

(if you want to see some interesting figures, have a look at the share price movements for Sony & Nintendo since 2000)

However, I think Grover is implying that people might want to do their own investigating, and look at the sources directly for themselves, Shams.

I am hardly a Sony fany boy. I own two DS's, a PSP, GC, PS2, N64, 2x GBA's, GBC and so on.. tuns of them In fact looking at my collection, you'd probably assume I am a N fan if anything. As well as developing on most of them too.. I cant afford to be platform picky since its my work. You are welcome to label me that tho, if that helps you deal with the real numbers. The simple facts are, and this is undisputed even by Sony and Nintendo themselves, is that they are on a fairly even playing field in terms of market sales. If thats too hard too take.. then Im sorry.. I dunno. But quoting single monthly figures from a single region doesnt show the whole picture. For instance, youd know that the DS hasnt even registered in sales in the India, and Arabian handheld market - they dont hardly sell them. Whereas the PSP has sold greatly in these places, but then, to you, that obviously doesnt matter.

The R and D costs for the Wii have not been registered on their financial documents yet - this is traditionally the case with both Sony and Nintendo, to register R and D costs during the launch quarters or thereabouts (its a nice big tax break offset for them too). Sony only registered the RSX costs the first quarter this year, even though it had been going for 18 months. And they havent fully finished registering R and D costs for PS3 (again expected to be next years first quarter - end of financial year in Japan). Manufacturing costs are only _part_ of the costs of developing a console, and getting profit back from it. Its utterly insane to imagine that R&D costs somehow are not part of the companies expenditure for a product - look at the annual financials, see what they actaully put on the balance sheets themselves. Its not that hard to see. And guess what they measure expenditure against the units sales revenue.. woah.. what a novel balance sheet.

"And I will remind you was that I did to "start this" was state how well the DS is doing in the marketplace, *especially* compared to the PSP" - this is exactly the classic banter of a fanboy. I posted three times, to visit the corporate financials for both companies. Based on both their latest statements July.. PSP is at 20.02 million and DS is at 21.27 million. I merely explained that the idea that the DS is far out pacing the PSP is a fallacy, and the typical stuff of fanboys on forums. Visit the corporate sites.. read the numbers.. its all there for you. I dunno why you keep asking, and dont just read, its barely two or three clicks to get to.

"not bad for a console that is convincingly being beaten in terms of monthly hardware sales". You quote a single months stats from a single region, as average. Thats why what you are saying is completely misleading. You pick the bits you like to read, but not the bits you dont like to read.

Nintendo make money on hardware AND software. Im not sure why you think this is somehow different to Sony and MS - now you are just being silly, trying to make Nintendo sound as if they are some sort of special company that doesnt make money on HW and SW? Sony makes 10 USD per PS2 disc.. MS has a similar pressing fee. Nintnedo has a similar fee for carts. But all companies, after a period of time try to make money on their consoles as well, once they have made back their development costs, the begin to profit from their developments. This is why these companies all state profit warnings at the start of their new console cycles. MS is really the only company that has continually made loses on the console itself, mainly because they can afford to. Nintendo and Sony cant - they simply dont have the same amount of monetry backing.

Either way it doesnt matter. The numbers have been speaking for themselves, and the over driven N hype (especially on the internet) is plainly that.. hype. Wii is a pretty good example here too. In many game forums and news websites they have done polls to see what people prefer, and especially in Japan its resoundingly high amount of Wii intended buyers. However a recent suvey of the public attendees of TGS showed that "58.3 percent selected the PS3 as the next-gen system they most want, 33.8 percent picked the Wii, and 7.9 percent went with the Xbox 360." Which goes heavily against what the internet news and web media (and fanboys) pupports.

The point is, look at the actual numbers - dont just read some single month or week stat for one region, dont just beleive what some editor on a website says, visit the corporate data sites and read the info. Yes, Sony shares have taken huge hits over the last year or more, mainly due to 'a n a lysts' comments. I think once the dust settles the _actual_ sales will be alot more than most people have been touting around the internet - much like what people say about the DS.

To be honest, Im glad there is a good set of choices in handheld, because its better for the consumer, and better for the industry. And its even better that its a fifty-fifty type share, that way you get good support on both machines. People that carry on like the market is in some other form of segment ratio like thirty-seventy or worse are simply being ignorant - which is ok, if you want to live in a single platform world, thats fine by me. Just dont proppogate mis-information of another platfrom if you dont really know.

Nintendo DS Hardware
Japan - 9,240,000
America - 5,900,000
Other (Europe) - 6,130,000
Total - 21,270,000

PSP Hardware
Japan - 5,130,000
America - 7,570,000
Europe - 6,350,000
Total - 19,050,000

A breakdown of handheld (PSP and DS) software unit sales for June 2006:

Nintendo DS Software
Japan - 34,420,000
America - 25,210,000
Other (Europe) - 19,160,000
Total - 78,790,000

PSP Software
Japan - 12,000,000
America - 25,200,000
Europe - 19,200,000
Total - 56,400,000

I know that by the end of July 2006, the PSP has sold 20.02 million units worldwide - not sure about DS, which would probably be 1-2m more than for the end of June.

The DS has overtaken the PSP in sales, and this is due to the DS Lite - but not by much, and the PSP is still selling strongly. This is still just a shallow understanding of the figures, as for hardware sales, we can see that the PSP has out-sold the DS in North America and Europe. The territory that the DS is doing the best, accounting for nearly half of its hardware sales, is Japan.

Looking at the software sales, we see that it is a similar story, with the DS and PSP selling an identical amount of units in North America and Europe. The place where they are selling the most units, and more so than the PSP, is Japan.

From a developer's perspective, and a western one that is far different to the tastes of Western / Eastern Japan. I find it alarming that nearly half of all DS hardware sales have occurred in Japan.

DS: is aimed at children to young teens, mostly to their kid and family friendly content, and also to their lower price-point - which is appealing to tight-arsed parents. Their growth areas are in attracting older gamers (Brain-Age) and more female gamers (Nintendogs). I might add that the reason they are seeing more success than at the beginning, is due to the DS Lite - did changing the look of it to something less kiddy have something to do with this?

PSP: is aimed at older teens, young adults to mid-aged adults, much like the PS1 and PS2. There growth areas are pretty much the same as before, by not targeting and treating gamers as nerdy children of geek parents - why the PS1 was a success in my opinion. Their market is not put off by the higher cost of the base hardware, as they are focused on quality for them, meaning content for adults - and not just game content. They're also attracting their own fair share of female gamers and older gamers - or traditional non-gamers.

Anyway, just my subjective opinion of the two.

DS shipment forecast raised to 20 million units

Nintendo has raised its DS shipment forecast to 20 million units after net profits rose by more than 48 per cent during the first half of the financial year.

Profits for the six month period ending September 30 stood at YEN 54.35 billion (EUR 361 million) - up from YEN 36.6 billion (EUR 243 million) a year previously.

Revenues were up by almost 70 per cent to reach YEN 298.8 billion (EUR 1.98 billion, while operating profit more than tripled to YEN 67.11 billion (EUR 446 million).

Nintendo attributed the rise to increase global sales of the DS handheld; 10.9 million units were sold during first half of the year, up from 3.57 million units during the same period a year ago.

As a result, Nintendo has upped its forecast and now predicts sales of 20 million units, rather than 17 million, by the end of the financial year. The company also expects to sell more DS games, raising its projection from 7.5 million to 8.2 million units. The forecast for Wii sales remains at 6 million consoles and 17 million games by the end of the financial year.

Nintendo also earned foreign exchange gains worth YEN 24.1 billion (EUR 160 million), due to a weak yen.

There was no change to the company's end of year forecast, which predicts net profits of YEN 100 billion (EUR 665 million) and revenues of YEN 740 billion (EUR 4.9 billion).

Nintendo DS Hardware
Japan - 11,520,000
America - 7,510,000
Other - 7,790,000
Total - 26,820,000

Nintendo DS Software
Japan - 45,980,000
America - 32,760,000
Other - 24,860,000
Total - 103,600,000

...

Here are the PSP figures (Sept 06). These are production (shipped?) figures - the sell-through figures are quite different:

PSP Hardware
Japan - 5,370,000
America - 9,570,000
Europe - 8,000,000
Total - 22,940,000

PSP Software
Japan - 14,600,000
America - 30,400,000
Europe - 24,300,000
Total - 69,300,000

(sub-note: from NPD figures, the PSP has sold 150k/month in the US over the last 3 months. Yet the shipment figures jumped by more than 2million. Looks like retailers are stocking up for Xmas? Or maybe due to new stores opening, etc.)

also, in my opinion, buy whatever machine (or machines) that you will find fun. i've pre-ordered a wii, because i like nintendo games. there are a lot of sony games i like too, and likewise 360 games, and i'm happy there are 3 consoles on the market, i'm just sick of mindless bickering over which company is most successful. there is definately room for 3 players in this industry and it if gives the consumer more choice, then this drives the companies to improve quality.

i'm excited at what nintendo is doing more so than sony and microsoft as it is challenging developers to do more than just "graphics and tech". aren't people tired of generic fps and war games? where is originality today? anyway, i'm letting my opinion out too much now so i'll just finish by saying i played wii last night at nintendo hq, melbourne, and it was the freshest gaming experience since i picked up an atari joystick back in the late 80s.