2 entries found for prima donna.
pri?ma donna Audio pronunciation of "prima donna" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prm, prm)
n.
1. The leading woman soloist in an opera company.
2. A temperamental, conceited person.
3. An individual working in the Australian Games Industry.
This is seriously an actual definition listed on Dictionary.com no joke, check it out if you don't believe me.
I came across this and it started me thinking. "Hmm... perhaps people working in the Aus Games industry really AREN'T the awesome god like l33t beings they quite often make themselves out to be"
Heaven forbid, surely, suuuureely if you can make perfectly textured 3D low Poly rack, or code them to bounce uncontrolably with your l33t physics everytime she so much as breathes you are in fact curing cancer, come onnnn, of course! ........ but maybe not....
I found this nagging issue picking at me, picking, picking, and as much as desperately strived I couldn't for the life of me silence it. I AM l33t! I AM! women throw themselves at me! I make games for god's sake why wouldn't they, I should be aussie of the freakin year! ... but wait... I'm not... how could this possibly be.
I decided to open my eyes and step back into reality, no no! seriously, it needed to be done, and I started mingling with other games industry folks at the usual meet ups and interviews and parties and all that but while I did it I sort of 'bent my eye' a little and looked at it the way perhaps a regular or "lesser" person would. I was listening to the conversations, one l33t coder from a l33t company was talking to one from a not so l33t company, and when he found out that company heh by god did he smirk and feel uber l33t in his l33tness, and why shouldn't he, he's l33t, he knows how to string a group of letters and numbers a certain way and he does so for licence, after licence, after licence, after licence...
I searched around more, I got into conversations with l33t folk, they talked about the games they Designed, THEY.. DESIGNED.. THE GAMES THEY DESIGNED, CAUSE THEY'RE DESIGNERS, GAME DESIGNERS, NOT UNL33T GRAPHIC DESIGNERS, GAME DESIGNERS, DESIGNERS OF GAMES... GAMES!... anyway I asked them what else they did in their spare time, annnnnd well... they told me about the games they designed. But thats all well and good, what other aspects of life should somebody strive for?
Now I began seeing a certain pattern evolving, I looked at myself, surely Designing would be more than enough to pave my path into heaven, and soon my chance to prove it arose. A woman on the sidewalk began having a heartattack, most of the l33t folk shrugged it off but this was my chance to lie reassured, I shouted "DON'T WORRY, I'M A GAME DESIGNER!" and I dived off of the balcony and fell three stories to the ground, suprisingly it hurt, 'that was unexpected I thought' I limped over to the woman and placed my hand upon her chest, I assured her in a calm manner the way the "lesser" people respond to, "Don't worry..... I'm a Game Designer" a sincere flash of hope ignited within her eyes for she had learned previously of such l33tness existing, I channelled my Design power into her, "LIVE! LIVE!" ... to my disconcertion the selfish bitch died.
I admit this was a shock, I couldnt possibly be just a human who designs rather average games, I'm a Game Designer... I ran in disarray through the streets until I came across a school, I saw a Teacher, she was... teaching... actually passing knowledge onto others thus improving their lives, but I improve lives, I make games. I thrust myself upon the window "I MAKE GAMES! LOVE ME!" the teacher looked up and her face flashed "Look children! a real life dweeb!" This cant be true! I ran away and into a hospital where nurses were helping people, making a difference, they looked at me and said "Awww, a geek, they're sooo cute when they're in crunch time" but then I realised I was imagining it because regular people actually don't give a sh&t, I lost all hope, returned home to my mums, and hugged my pillow (her name's Lucy).
Since that day of awakening I have broadened myself somewhat, maybe ONLY having one aspect of my life isnt enough, maybe I should take my hand off my crotch (wash it) and use it to somehow help out. Maybe, just maybe, we could someday all just get some humility, offer some advice or support to wannabes or smaller companies, realise the fact that the games we make really aren't all that great, and even the good ones can always be improved. Maybe start to strive a little to improve ourselves, get out and be social with people industry or not, and realise that yes this could actually be a fun job that could actually warrant the respect that other vocations do, if only we made the effort.
That's just me, what do you guys reckon?
I think someone is Jealous.
1)Fearful or wary of being supplanted; apprehensive of losing affection or position.
2) a Resentful or bitter in rivalry; envious: jealous of the success of others.
2) b Inclined to suspect rivalry.
3) Having to do with or arising from feelings of envy, apprehension, or bitterness: jealous thoughts.
4) Vigilant in guarding something: We are jealous of our good name.
5) Intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity; autocratic: a jealous God.
:) Fair enough, so you guys seriously don't agree then? As much as you look into the industry you don't see any essence at all of what I'm talking about? Surely self critisism is the only way to advance, it is the fundamental of any creative work. When I was working on our previous title I was the number one critic, still am, frankly the game annoys the hell out of me, but I fully intend on being that way for the next, and the next, and the next, because as soon as you become content surely you cease to advance and your work becomes stale.
And thats what I see has happened, I go to industry parties and I see a definite completely unfounded elitism within the larger companies, and why? whats it based on? they make games, ok, great... and? seriously, sell the job to me (and to all these guys on here wanting to get into the industry)
Im not saying its a bad job, it can be quite fun actually, and I'd much rather continue to do it as opposed to many others, but why should I smirk and feel like more over people who arent in it, or over companies that make games that are buggy or I may not like, at least they're trying, why does this one skill we have, this one aspect overrule all others?
Yes it is a business and I'm not expecting the larger companies to aid others and all that, thats rediculous, but the primary thing to be drawn through competition is not to crush the opponent, it is to rise above them. Come on if you guys seriously, seriously think you are the shazzaow and cannot improve any further on what you're doing, then you might as well kill yourselves now cause it's gonna be a hell of a boring life.
And why is it that people have such a problem with me speaking negatives?
I don't think you're babbling crazy talk. I think quite a few developers really do need to get their hands off it. I call it "Hollywood Syndrome"... new (usually) developers have that period where they think they're in Hollywood... their work is all important, critically acclaimed and very clever in their eyes. It's not until they've pumped out a few titles and really damaged themselves with overtime that they usually begin to realize that they're just doing a bread-and-butter job. Work to live, don't live to work.
I frequent most of the trade shows, and the one thing that I absolutely can't stand is the "What ARE you, who do you WORK for?" opener that you'll usually get before anyone will shake your hand. I couldn't think of anything ruder than trying to network for networkings sake. I'll avoid these people like the plague. It's like a girl coming up to you in a bar and asking how much money you make and what kind of car you drive. People that "network" like this usually miss all the "rough diamonds" who then tend to avoid them completely (and who invariably end up being the most useful people).
I also tend not to trust the judgement of people who elect themselves lofty titles (though I've been guilty of this). Producers are usually the worst offenders here. I've always had a bit of a chuckle over the term "producer" (since they're the only ones on the team that don't actually produce anything). These people are project managers. If you ask a Producer to change their title to "Project Manager" and they argue that they should be called "Lead Director of Associate Production", then they're usually too undercooked in the experience stakes.
Devs could really benefit from getting their hands off it. Ego is a dirty word. Nobody wants to work with someone that has a carnivorous ego. And chances are we're not the shiniest buttons in the box. Education keeps getting better and better... kids keep getting smarter and smarter. The students you avoid at shows are likely on their way to being better than you. They'll find their way into the seat next to you at work and they'll remember you as the wank you were when you first met them. :)
Enough ranting for me. *Gets hand off it*
Scott.
quote:Originally posted by rezn0r
I also tend not to trust the judgement of people who elect themselves lofty titles (though I've been guilty of this).
LOL [:)] Likewise [:)] I did like some of the job titles in the dot com era like "software wizard" though.
Obligortary bag of salt- my title atm is
Lorien Dunn
Acting Head
Games Technology Lab
The Applied Computing Research Institute
Deparment of Computer Science and Computer Engineering
La Trobe University
Which is quite a mouthful- though I didn't give it to myself [:)]
Actually Jacky I am now curious to hear how you have been burned and come about this conclusion. Sure Eleetism exists in the games industry but it exists in every other single career path out there but I have to say I see it as an absolute minority.
I attend every IGDA meeting that goes on and see alot of developers happily helping students and hopefulls with friendly advice. I have never seen at one of these events a developer snob a student/unemployed because he felt that they were better then them.
quote: Jackydablunt... I know where you're coming from
Fight the 'man' man
quote: Education keeps getting better and better... kids keep getting smarter and smarter. The students you avoid at shows are likely on their way to being better than you. They'll find their way into the seat next to you at work and they'll remember you as the wank you were when you first met them.
That?s a good point actually, these guys are good, better than me at certain things thats for sure, with the next gen comes more demand, therefore more positions, more and more of these uber talents will enter in and eventually push the stale elitists out, Australia might start to be recognised a bit more and a whole new era of innovation and growth will spur till the next stagnancy arrives, bring it on. If someone's good at what they do and they're humble and empathetic about it, I don't mind working under them.
quote:Sure! but I'd guess most creative industries have the twin dangers of not getting any good press, or at actually believing it if you do get any.
Yeah ok there is a catch with that I agree, but I'm more talking about your own integrity, if you can fully tell yourself you tried to make your end of the project the best it could be then so what if it turned out crap and how dare people condascend.
The guys hacking on me now are right, I do have a personal vendetta in this rant, the last game I worked on wont be released in Aus so most wont play it, but I assure you by the standards of other games it was pretty crap. But when you consider most of the guys in the small team had next to no exp (including the upper echelons) I myself had to design off a crap concept, by myself without any training or exp (I was an average concept artist beforehand), in the kitchen using a bloody mac. We had no official project management, only five coders, one with games exp, and we scraped and redid it all virtually in 8 months, Design to Master build.
Our game is now being released in the US, Germany, Russia, also China and Japan, making it apparently the first Aus title to break the asian market, and although yeah sure it aint a great game (why would it be with what we had), the majority of things I wanted to do didn't make it in, I'm freaken proud of myself and the guys I work with for pulling it off. However whenever I see the smirks from the people in the larger companies when my workmates say where they are, yeah, it pisses me off, they're great guys, some of the best I'll ever know and they don't deserve that.
The same happens with the 'garage' companies, I've heard elitests hacking on guys like Gridwerx and things, where the hell do they get off, thoes guys do it in their own time, they dont get paid (I dont think) yet on tenacity alone they're getting awards for what they've done. I couldn't remain that dedicated myself and Ive got a major respect for thoes guys, I only hope they get Gridwerx running and not have to resort to working for these wankers cause it'll waste them.
quote:I attend every IGDA meeting that goes on and see alot of developers happily helping students and hopefulls with friendly advice. I have never seen at one of these events a developer snob a student/unemployed because he felt that they were better then them.
Oh the guys I'm talking about I don't see at thoes things either cause they'd never dream of wasting their time helping others. The people I'm talking about are at the private parties and the trade shows, and its really the reason I don't go to them much anymore.
Well, what an outburst of pent up frustration ? just don't take it out too much on Lucy ;)
Seriously though, I do agree with you, for all out narcissism, we don't cure cancer and our long hours can not be justified like a doctor's are, who work in hospitals and save lives ? perhaps indirectly we might make some kid's life better for a while, but saying we saved their life would be a real stretch.
I'm a little fed-up with it to be honest, especially the odd times I notice my own ? unfortunately over-inflated egos are a hazard of working in an entertainment industry, and having to deal with them is part of the job, especially the talentless crud with the impressive job-title.
I doubt it will get better with time, perhaps some of the aging dinosaurs of the industry that think they are hot-shit will eventually be forced out of the industry, and that way we won't have to suffer at their incompetence. But entertainment is entertainment, it will always have it share of unjustified egos and complete wankers, just like any other entertainment industry ? film, music, etc.
Personally, I am looking forward to the day I become a hermit living in remote bushland so that the only person and their ego I have to deal with is my own :)
Im on your team Jackydablunt 100% - what can I say. Getting a look inside the process and inner workings of many studios definately has its advantages from our point of view. And this leetism you speak of *definately* runs high - all over the world.
I encounter it on *almost* a weekly basis from other freelancers who wont take crituque and go on to act and take a stance as if they are better than kalescent studios, or developers who think theyre methods are the be all and end all of game development and that our ideas or methods have no place.
Well you know - some of those freelancers are better and some of the game developers are aces, but is there need to make it so blatantly obvious that your an asshole?
Ahhhh humans - gotta love'em and their mighty egos. [:)]
Viva la 3 people in an apartment working on the next best thing off their own backs!
Allow me to clear up the reason behind my earlier comment: your original post Jackydablunt was mostly rambling shit. that said, i do see where you are comming from, and now that this thread has had some more serious comments i'll make my oppinion heard.
I pretty much agree with rezn0r (who as far as i can tell is making the same point as Jakydablunt only more coherently and back up with examples from experience) - to some extent anyway. But while i acknowledge these egos exist, I dont think it is as bad within the local industry as you make out. I personally have met very few people who fit the descriiptions above, and i have spoken with many higher-up people in brisbane and interstate at AGDC.
The only place I admit to having encounted this sort of thing is at AGDC, where a some people just want to speak to other managers or leads or whatever, while i was left to seek out other students, though i found it a lot better last year (perhaps because i was no longer a student).
But then again, another problem is that i had little way of knowing who of these were from the Australian industry and who were international delegates, which says to me, as MDobele said, you get this world wide and in every industry.
and to perhaps contradict what i just said: maybe some people just dont like talking to random people, and i guess not being a student makes them more comfortable since they know you're not after a job. Therefore i can say with all honesty - the total number of people i have meet at agdc that really came accross as elitist was a very small number, and the majority of these were international delegates.
so, to try and tie this rather disjointed comment together: while i've encounted this a little bit, it was never as bad or nearly as widespread as some people have made it out to be above.
Maybe i've just been lucky, or maybe becuase havnt had to have any business dealings with them, but so far i've found the Australian industry to be largly welcoming. So while i've heard of people encountering these 'egos', i cant really speak from much personal experience.
And to ecko what's been said above about the IGDA:
It's great, i've been to almost every meeting since i first discovered it, and have tryed to become more involved in growing it. Everyone there is friendly and is willing to speak to anyone. And i constantly see students freely being given a months worth of education in a few minutes. It's not about networking (at least not in the strictest sense) and it's a great time to meet new people and enjoy a few drinks, reguardless of experience or position.
I appologise for the long, disjointed, and probably contradictory reply - such are the ramblings of a hungry mind, i'm going to get some dinner.[B)]
Ok well maybe I took a dramatic turn but hey I?m a dramatic guy it?s my job, and you can?t say it didn?t grab peoples attention, hopefully I?ll keep doing it. And whether you don?t like me or whatever Limewire well, I?m sure we?ll both survive and prosper with or without each other?s company.
All personal stuff aside I will repeat, IGDA excluded, I go to most of those as well (we?ve probably met before) and the guys who go to those meetings are there because they wish to improve the industry, Matt, and Truna, and Mick are all great and the industry needs much more like them. The ones I?m talking about however are not going to IGDA meetings, I?m not saying all the people who don?t are pricks or anything, I myself am admittedly winding down a little though I?ll be there Sunday most likely, but the guys I?m talking about would never even consider it because its just not worthy of their time, unless of course it promoted them.
Where I?ve seen these guys are at the private house parties and in interviews or business stuff that I?ve been in, ok they may not be a majority, but with the people agreeing with me on this post they?re obviously predominant enough? I don?t know maybe the bad just tend to stand out more above the good, either way I?m just trying to highlight the very thin line there is between industry and non industry folk, and that I think the sooner it is acknowledged and we get some humility back, the better it will be for all, sure its probably not you, its probably not the guy next to you, but its there and for the most part in the upper echelons where it is needed the least.
I never said i dont like you Jackydablunt - i have no reason to anyway. I simply said your first post was mostly talking shit - by which i mean rambling off on a weird tangent. I'm not critisizing what you said by calling it rambing shit, (infact some of it did give me a bit of a laugh, even if i didnt agree with it all), it's just that it came across that you were just having a bit of a rant, which i have no problem with, but seeing as it took the form of random ramblings, i didnt take the thread seriously until there were serious replies.
I guess we can settle any other differences on sunday [:D]
Is this the sort of leetism and 'high and mighty' attitude that we're desting here?
quote:posted by poser regarding Hazard and Cynical
Basic Facts
1. I earn $100,000+ p.a. as a programmer.
2. I have had no problems finding work for 10 years.
3. Cynical is not offering to pay me anything.
4. This post has been going on for 8 months.
5. You two are in la la land.
don't know urgrund I didn't read that thread so I don't know the context of it, I've got no problem with people being confident (though yeah that dude does sound pretty frrrreaken l33t) its the hacking on others thats gets me.
I was in an interview with a l33t company not so long ago (wont say which one), wasn't so sure I wanted the job (or if I'll stay in the industry altogether) but I went to it anyway, and the dude was bloody trying to hack on me IN THE INTERVIEW! He was smirking away making coments "I dont think I saw anyone go to your booth at AGDC meheheheh" and on other things and I just looked at him straight and said "I don't care man" and he shut up, then I went on (ranting if you will) about just what we had achieved and my opinions of the aformentioned elitism in the industry, and he just looked at the desk for the rest of the time. It remained civil and in the end we wound up just making friendly chit chat about general crap but theres little need to say I have since withdrawn my application, I am not working under someone like that. It was a pitty cause the HR chick was really quite a nice person and put up with me giving her the run around a bit (sorry).
The thing is though is that I've heard people tell me a few stories like that and its a shame because it's hard enough for inexperienced to have an interview as it is, let alone having it hosted by someone on a power trip. They need to be given confidence for christ sake, even if you aren't going to hire them, because then they broadcast themselves and that's how you find out their best characteristics.
......... meh, I'm over it, hopefully places like Gridwerx and Intrigue will get themselves up and running and wake these other guys up a bit.
Ok Livewire, I'll watch my delivery techniques if you watch yours, and we'll all live happily ever after, see you sunday.
quote:Originally posted by Jackydablunt
don't know urgrund I didn't read that thread so I don't know the context of it, I've got no problem with people being confident (though yeah that dude does sound pretty frrrreaken l33t) its the hacking on others thats gets me.
I was in an interview with a l33t company not so long ago (wont say which one), wasn't so sure I wanted the job (or if I'll stay in the industry altogether) but I went to it anyway, and the dude was bloody trying to hack on me IN THE INTERVIEW! He was smirking away making coments "I dont think I saw anyone go to your booth at AGDC meheheheh" and on other things and I just looked at him straight and said "I don't care man" and he shut up, then I went on (ranting if you will) about just what we had achieved and my opinions of the aformentioned elitism in the industry, and he just looked at the desk for the rest of the time. It remained civil and in the end we wound up just making friendly chit chat about general crap but theres little need to say I have since withdrawn my application, I am not working under someone like that. It was a pitty cause the HR chick was really quite a nice person and put up with me giving her the run around a bit (sorry).
The thing is though is that I've heard people tell me a few stories like that and its a shame because it's hard enough for inexperienced to have an interview as it is, let alone having it hosted by someone on a power trip. They need to be given confidence for christ sake, even if you aren't going to hire them, because then they broadcast themselves and that's how you find out their best characteristics.
......... meh, I'm over it, hopefully places like Gridwerx and Intrigue will get themselves up and running and wake these other guys up a bit.
Ok Livewire, I'll watch my delivery techniques if you watch yours, and we'll all live happily ever after, see you sunday.
I agree with much of your sentiment and I'm sorely tempted
to indulge in a rant, but I'd be all grumpy in the morning.
Anyway, right on.
Isnt it being elitist to complain about others being elitist?
Really wgaf - having worked in a few diff industries (Electrical/Electronics, IT, Games, Defense) in differing roles, Im not really sure why there is a problem? You always get people trying to do better and show off - "Show ponies" if you will.. but its hardly a bone of contention. Seriously, the high majority of ppl involved in the game industry are great people. I dont think wasting time worrying about a few bad eggs will solve anything, and more to the point, its a pretty large waste of effort.
Its a bit disappointing that you label the people in the industry as the 'prima donna' problem, hardly the case. Most are truly brilliant minded, hard working folks who enjoy a half decent beer.
ok yeah, point taken, and you're right as was Livewire and the others in saying that they are in fact a minority, and yes it is in all other industries as it is a human trait, however, despite all this, why NOT ackowledge it? When I had that interview it started out with him taking shots and making out their company was better (duh, thats why I was applying) and it was going nowhere, I wasn't there for his amusement so therefore I picked him up on it. After I did that the interview went fine, we were on an equal level and we just started talking everyday crap like we do on here, friendly stuff, industry stuff, it was all good it ended up being a proper interview.
So surely its healthy to bring this up and acknowledge it when we see it, its better for them, better for us, better for the industry as a whole.
Hang on a sec - this is classic christian banter. "Eye for an eye" and all that. :) (I wonder how many I offended with that.. soz) Seriously, the whole idea that if someone chastises you for something and you feel the need to retaliate, then it is not the person chastising that has the problem. It is yourself. If you truly dont care what this person says, then simply let it go. It'll do you no good (mentally) to keep it on board and mull it, and blow it up on a forum (although it is a good way to vent the frustration too). Its a very powerful thing to do, to be able to simply ignore a persons intended chide, in fact, done well it can simply make them look completely foolish. And as you are pretty happy with the work you've done, Id say you seem halfway there in any case - a bit more venting and you will be cured :)
Resolution of issues and acknowledging a problem are two different things. As has been stated, there isnt really a big problem - in general terms in this industry. Its a human condition as you point out. That being true, its just life, so you'll need to learn to develop some coping mechanisms for it (theres no solve to fix all the ego trippers :) ). If you have ever worked in a blue collar job like the car industry (I was at GMH for 12 years) you simply end up developing a wgaf mechanism to cope :) ... what ppl say ends up having little desired effect .. even leading hands :)
In fact ignoring this post.. would be a great way to stuff me up :)
No I wont ignore, you speak the truth wise one, however, I wasn't pissed because of their approach to me, I was pissed because of the approach to my friends. I've been feeling the need to find another career for a while now so what happens to me in this one isn't really an issue (ok it is, but less and less as time passes). But because of that I've kinda been looking into the industry a bit more from an outside view, as what a few people have done, and I don't know it just seems like something easily avoidable that doesnt need to be there and it'd make it easier and funner for a lot of people if it wasnt. I just don't like seeing people get away with that kinda thing is all, maybe its just noseyness or self righteousness, I dont know, doesn't matter as like most people are saying, there ain't much you can do.
I think there's elitism in all industries, not just in the game industry. Not that I think it's ok to be that way, but I think it highlights the importance to know people outside of your chosen industry and like Jacky said, be a bit more well rounded in your life.
None of my friends are in the games industry and they're all spread out over different disciplines and I think it's interesting to learn about the things they do, in fact it's a nice change from the usual games chatter.
Personally, I think Jackydablunt's approach was fantastic... Too many lemon sucking straight faces on too many forums everywhere. It's refreshing to read something with a bit of flare... maybe a little convoluted but it makes you think a bit more about what the author is saying and in the end, it provokes a response, which is what it's all about!
As for the subject... I've been in the industry a while now and my ego has remained comfortably in check thanks to the following conversation, repeated almost anywhere I go...
Them "So... what do you do"
Me "I work in video games"
Them "uh huh... so, whataya think of this fantastic cheese dip"
I wish I could know the emotional high's of being a Prima Donna, surely someone working in 'video games' is at least a little bit cool...
quote:Originally posted by Gandal
Them "So... what do you do"
Me "I work in video games"
Them "uh huh... so, whataya think of this fantastic cheese dip"
Reminds me of something a teacher said long ago:
Them "So... what do you do"
Him "I'm a composer"
Them "uh huh..., I take out the garbage on Wednesdays"
[:)]
Not me...Im TOO awesome.
In fact, I once bet a wall in a game of tennis...pretty cool, eh