Much ado about nothing! [:)]

Forum
Artists

David Coen posted this picture of a model he claims took him 8 hours?
[img]http://freehost04.websamba.com/davidcoen/3d/3d_76.jpg">

Which is interesting because I built that avatar model for Earth and Beyond. It's not the best model in the world, but it's mine.
[img]http://www.jamesmestemaker.com/enb/08avatar.jpg">
The guy didn't even bother painting over the entire texture.
[img]http://www.jamesmestemaker.com/enb/skin03.jpg">
He's posting other models he claims are his, you might want to check.

David Coen?, EA/ Westwood might be interested in what Mystical Entertainment is doing with their property...is it worth it to you?

[URL=http://www.jamesmestemaker.com]-SlamminBeers[/URL]

Submitted by souri on Thu, 26/09/02 - 1:48 AMPermalink

Hi,
I won't be removing David Coen's picture from the site right away as you've requested until he has the time to respond.
Having a look at the two models, I can see that his texturing is not a carbon copy as yours. It might be possible that you two used the same reference material, perhaps? The proportions are simliar, but I guess if you follow the same reference material, then it'll turn out like that. Although they look very different to each other below the waist. Of course a mesh screenshot of both models will show whats going on. In anyway case, relax and wait for him to respond first.

Submitted by SlamminBeers on Thu, 26/09/02 - 9:30 AMPermalink

Well, cooler heads prevail this morning.
Here's the deal... From what I can tell, Mystical Entertainment's manager is stealing concept drawings from the web.
from Adrian Shuter, project leader of mystical development (regarding the concept skectch)
_quote_
As for the bad man concept, that was leftover from a mod project which I wanted to incorporate into our game. It came from a concept artist no
longer with us, and I wouldn't believe it's not ours. However if another company is saying it's too close to something they've done, that's good
enough for me to want to re-do it anyway.
_end quote_

Here's where the concept came from...[URL=http://test.earthandbeyond.ea.com/community/glimpse/glimpse8_13.jsp]htt…]
..and here's Gary Freemans/ Westwoods sketch taken from the above article.

David was nice enough to send me a screen of his working files...

He did build the model but the concept is stollen. My apologies to David a.k.a. FragCow.

Submitted by davidcoen on Tue, 01/10/02 - 9:25 AMPermalink

the project leader for Msytic did not steal any concept, an unethical concept artist gave it to him with a touched up head.

additionally i DID model and texture it in eight hours, and did not use anyones artistic resources in the model and texture's creation.

I find the name of this thread slandurus, and am currious what is required to have it removed. Neither was I told of this threads exsistance, and while after abusing me in several forums publicly i have recieved James Mestemaker's private appology, i think i need to make it a bit clearer or simply have this thread removed.

I NEVER CLAIMED ANYONE ELSES WORK AS MY OWN. In the original picture i claimed that the concept was from msytic, which was in error and is now corrected.

David Coen

Submitted by davidcoen on Tue, 01/10/02 - 9:38 AMPermalink

hold on, you REGISTED in this forum just to incorrectly accuse me of something before giving me a chance to reply to your abusive email?

oh, thanks a lot buddy.

Submitted by souri on Tue, 01/10/02 - 9:41 AMPermalink

I've changed the topic..

Submitted by davidcoen on Tue, 01/10/02 - 9:43 AMPermalink

thanks, i will now get back to doing concept drawing for msytic (before i make any more models for them....)

Submitted by SlamminBeers on Tue, 01/10/02 - 11:54 AMPermalink

Once again, I am apologize to David for my earlier remarks. From what I can tell he did not intentionally steal anything. The Model and texture are his own and done quite well, I might ad.
The problem is the concept art of which I have spoken to Mystical and explained the problem. They have been very helpful in solving this problem and I feel it won't happen again. One thing I DO NOT agree with is passing the buck on who's fault it is. Regardless of how the concept was acquired, the management is responsible for making sure it is not ripped off. It is not a reflection of some 'unknown seedy concept guy', it is a reflection on the company as a whole. I feel that Mystical understands this now and has taken the proper steps to remedy the problems.
I am sorry for any additional problems that this may have caused the company or individuals involved with them but companies DO have a right to protect what is legally theirs.
Personally, I will correct things in more of a private manner from now on.
Feel free to delete this thread.

Forum
Artists

David Coen posted this picture of a model he claims took him 8 hours?
[img]http://freehost04.websamba.com/davidcoen/3d/3d_76.jpg">

Which is interesting because I built that avatar model for Earth and Beyond. It's not the best model in the world, but it's mine.
[img]http://www.jamesmestemaker.com/enb/08avatar.jpg">
The guy didn't even bother painting over the entire texture.
[img]http://www.jamesmestemaker.com/enb/skin03.jpg">
He's posting other models he claims are his, you might want to check.

David Coen?, EA/ Westwood might be interested in what Mystical Entertainment is doing with their property...is it worth it to you?

[URL=http://www.jamesmestemaker.com]-SlamminBeers[/URL]

Submitted by souri on Thu, 26/09/02 - 1:48 AMPermalink

Hi,
I won't be removing David Coen's picture from the site right away as you've requested until he has the time to respond.
Having a look at the two models, I can see that his texturing is not a carbon copy as yours. It might be possible that you two used the same reference material, perhaps? The proportions are simliar, but I guess if you follow the same reference material, then it'll turn out like that. Although they look very different to each other below the waist. Of course a mesh screenshot of both models will show whats going on. In anyway case, relax and wait for him to respond first.

Submitted by SlamminBeers on Thu, 26/09/02 - 9:30 AMPermalink

Well, cooler heads prevail this morning.
Here's the deal... From what I can tell, Mystical Entertainment's manager is stealing concept drawings from the web.
from Adrian Shuter, project leader of mystical development (regarding the concept skectch)
_quote_
As for the bad man concept, that was leftover from a mod project which I wanted to incorporate into our game. It came from a concept artist no
longer with us, and I wouldn't believe it's not ours. However if another company is saying it's too close to something they've done, that's good
enough for me to want to re-do it anyway.
_end quote_

Here's where the concept came from...[URL=http://test.earthandbeyond.ea.com/community/glimpse/glimpse8_13.jsp]htt…]
..and here's Gary Freemans/ Westwoods sketch taken from the above article.

David was nice enough to send me a screen of his working files...

He did build the model but the concept is stollen. My apologies to David a.k.a. FragCow.

Submitted by davidcoen on Tue, 01/10/02 - 9:25 AMPermalink

the project leader for Msytic did not steal any concept, an unethical concept artist gave it to him with a touched up head.

additionally i DID model and texture it in eight hours, and did not use anyones artistic resources in the model and texture's creation.

I find the name of this thread slandurus, and am currious what is required to have it removed. Neither was I told of this threads exsistance, and while after abusing me in several forums publicly i have recieved James Mestemaker's private appology, i think i need to make it a bit clearer or simply have this thread removed.

I NEVER CLAIMED ANYONE ELSES WORK AS MY OWN. In the original picture i claimed that the concept was from msytic, which was in error and is now corrected.

David Coen

Submitted by davidcoen on Tue, 01/10/02 - 9:38 AMPermalink

hold on, you REGISTED in this forum just to incorrectly accuse me of something before giving me a chance to reply to your abusive email?

oh, thanks a lot buddy.

Submitted by souri on Tue, 01/10/02 - 9:41 AMPermalink

I've changed the topic..

Submitted by davidcoen on Tue, 01/10/02 - 9:43 AMPermalink

thanks, i will now get back to doing concept drawing for msytic (before i make any more models for them....)

Submitted by SlamminBeers on Tue, 01/10/02 - 11:54 AMPermalink

Once again, I am apologize to David for my earlier remarks. From what I can tell he did not intentionally steal anything. The Model and texture are his own and done quite well, I might ad.
The problem is the concept art of which I have spoken to Mystical and explained the problem. They have been very helpful in solving this problem and I feel it won't happen again. One thing I DO NOT agree with is passing the buck on who's fault it is. Regardless of how the concept was acquired, the management is responsible for making sure it is not ripped off. It is not a reflection of some 'unknown seedy concept guy', it is a reflection on the company as a whole. I feel that Mystical understands this now and has taken the proper steps to remedy the problems.
I am sorry for any additional problems that this may have caused the company or individuals involved with them but companies DO have a right to protect what is legally theirs.
Personally, I will correct things in more of a private manner from now on.
Feel free to delete this thread.