character models

first of all some wires would be a great help. also despite your love of large pectorals i think they are slightly too overwhelming. i was wondering if you use any references for your modelling. this is really handy even if your going for a cartoon look, create the model using a reference detailing muscle systems etc. (id draw your own or get a reference similar to what you are aiming for when doing the head) then alter it too a more cartoony style, as a base in reality is what makes a cartoon great. looking forward to seeing progress though, and some wires[:)]

heh thats why i didnt want to show the torso as its only roughed out and i just created the split under the pecks so right now they look a bit... gah! the reference i use is the cartoony sketches that i draw, to retain my style (another reason i want these guys to look particulary cartoony is so you dont look at them and think counterstrike immediatly).

EDIT: update
[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/MoonUnit/20051914544_firstfull.j…]

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/MoonUnit/20051914558_firstfullwi…]

i should also explain, at the moment im making the base model which is to be made into multiple character models. So he will not feature things like a helmet, pads, pouches etc because they will be the changable features for each individual character.

something about that dosent entirely sit right with me, its cartoony but its cartoon realism. i think it lies in the hips somewhere, any help with that would be great but as allways all coments and crit appreciated. (the heads sitting a bit funny but thats cause it hasnt been properly attatched yet, dw about that)

EDIT: considering uhhhh... no ones commented, just another post edit for an update.

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/simages2/349_propchangeL.jpg[/img]

That?s looking pretty good. It?s difficult to post crits when it?s supposed to be a cartoony, stylised character and you haven?t posted any concept art for comparison ? it?s hard to know what you?re aiming for.

quote:it is supposed to be kind of cartoony in appearence because thats just my personal style
Regarding you preference for the cartoon style of modelling, I think you should be careful. Getting into the habit early of modelling unrealistic anatomy could potentially make it extremely difficult for you down the track when you want to start making more photo-realistic models in the search of employment. One crit I?ve heard the pros say several times is that folios with non-realistic characters in them are the first folios to be discarded by potential employers.

It?s fine to get involved with cartoon-like projects, but just keep in mind that you do need to concentrate on realistic anatomy at some point, preferable sooner rather then later. You don?t want to pick up bad habits.

That said, your guy here does have pretty good proportions. One thing that might be odd though; you said your using that computer model from the speed 3d thread in the project? Won?t that look a bit weird, having a photo-realistic prop with cartoon style characters? Though maybe not. Again, it?s hard to give accurate crits without concept art, but maybe mixing realistic props with unrealistic characters will look a bit odd?

-I hope that didn?t sound like a rant, I?m just trying to be helpful.[^] Regardless of what I just said, your doing a good job in general with your development as a 3D artist. [:)]

because my concept art is really only some basic lines which ive now discarded i cant really help you there, to give you a kind of the idea though ill point you in the direction of the art for the Xbox game fable ( sample: http://frontiernet.net/~doug.flowe/fable.jpg fable is by big blue box btw ). Its a similar sort of style.

Interestingly enough i read from a interview with a lead artist that he was really looking for non photo realistic renders and wonders why he dosent see more of them from potential employees (cant remember who it was but i can look it up if you like).
I was told that model i made of the computer had that faint cartoony style aswell by someone else so i assumed it fit that bill. Again to fable its not like vividly cartoony its more of a subtly. Most notable with characters large hands and things but you cant inject whole heap of cartoonyness into objects. I guess ill find out when i put them in unrealED together (hurray for personal projects, no deadlines, you can do that kind of thing :P ).

notes on getting into a habit and things are a good point, after this project perhaps i should have a go at something particulary photo realistic. thanks a lot for your comments

just to reiterate my point, im no pro (hell, ive still got two years of high school to go[:p]) but from what ive read in books and around forums, i really do believe that a very good way to develop both your traditional and 3d work is to develop a very good understanding of anatomy.

one prime example of this is comic books, the characters are very stylised, but the artists who draw them have a detailed knowledge of anatomy and thats what makes the cartoon even better, knowing what is important to the human figure and what can be changed to get the right effect. thats just my understanding so it up to you[^]

Coming along nicely Moony - something I'd like to add to the discussions about the art choices etc - and something that alot of artists spend years finding and that is a style & coolness that suits the end result.

Also worthy of note I believe anyway, is having a characater design with just the right amount of functionality, personality an originality.

So on that note - when your designing your characters I find it really helpful to think about the character, what he/she/it does ( in the project ) and how they feel, how they would react to a situation, what kind of environment are they going to be in etc - put yourself in the charcaters situation - where would you stash that hidden pistol or throwing star on your own body for a quick grab and throw/shoot.

On top of all that most people like to be original, so I think all well designed charcaters should portray that too - a real personalised touch somewhere, it maybe a necklace, or a strange hair style or wearing a dress made of belts Lulu .

As for the modelling youve done so far - Your style is pretty unique and this model is reminiscent of your entry from the model comp - those trademark pecs [:D] but i think whats lacking is an injection of coolness or flare. I think the proportions still need some work.

ATM hes just over 5 heads tall and im taking a punt that hes supposed to be human (wearing a balaclava and all) in which case to look more human male he should be up around 8 heads tall. If your looking to overemphasize features and proportions - like fable and peter molyneaux is pretty much consistant with - then your still looking for a balance in the design.
Bigger hands, bigger head, bigger feet and smaller frame etc.

Here are couple of suggestions for your character:

*Shoulders look a bit bunched as if his clavicles are raised - when someones relaxed the angle from the neck toward the shoulder is generally downward sloping.

*The distance from his hip to his knee is really short - lengthening that will give him a bit more height.

*Decrease the bowleggedness of the leg shape (unless thats going to be a feature)

Youll find often the best designs are the most simple and logical, with a hints or touches of personalisation.

Hopefully that helps some when your sitting down trying to design your characters. [:)]

thanks both of you for your responses and haz particulary for writing all that

conundrum: true, i have taken a few life drawing clases but never saw a male model. Ive still got a year in school and art clases so i will hopefully get another chance to have a good look at that.

haz: thanks first of all for all the advice for the future, on this specific model: the detail involved in the characters functionality comes later, this is the base model to be made into multiple models which will have their own pouches etc. Im looking into that like giving the sniper character twigs in his helmet, the tough guy have ripped off sleves etc.
his pecks arent that bad are they :P i tried to tone them down on this guy. Hes my first proper human male character.
over all the proportion of him is dictated by the skeleton i need to use for unreal, so thats not something i can really change. the other stuff ill have a play around with (like the shoulders). but yeah thanks so much again for all the advice

untill i can work out how the body is sposed to be wack this in the back of your viewport

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/rastus/2005114182151_2.jpg[/img]

even if u just use it as a guide then change shit later it helps

That's a fantastic guide, it comes from Andrew Loomis' "Figure Drawing for all it's worth"...

This book (PDF) taught me a lot about proportions etc. He's got another about cartooning called "Fun with a pencil".

I really recommend you check them out if you haven't already.

http://www.saveloomis.org/

yeah, loomis is great for anatomy, and that is particularly good ref for 3d. its lucky there are pdf's for him, actually getting the books is pretty expensive i looked for his "heads and hands" book and the cheapest i saw it was 200USD on amazon

thanks for the link and pic, i have some reading to do apparently!

(note: had a lengthier post, accidently hit back, cursed firefox, this is somewhat summerised)
Ive got my test model in game now, heres some pics of him running around in UT2k4:
[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/MoonUnit/2005225202134_coolness…]
[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/MoonUnit/2005225202356_frombehin…]
(note dw about the foot in floor thing, thats a UT thing)

Now im up to taking my base model and turning it into all the different characters for this machinima project. Im currently working on the russian boris and the captin sorenson (theres roughly 10 characters if your wondering. 10 main characters anyway...)
[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/MoonUnit/2005225202715_borisnsor…]

can people help me with suggestions for editable items and different ways (modeling wise, there will ofcourse be texture variation) to make the characters look different to each other. Proportions are pretty locked in because the characters need to work with the unreal skeleton. Basicaly their swat special forces type guys, so pads, pouches and so on (note ive also made a third head with a helmet to be used later and ofcourse the bald one).

UPDATERIFFIC!!!

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/simages2/349_thusfarL.jpg[/img]

A few more characters still to make... ontop of other things... blah

for some reason, that last shot of all the characters in a line up reminds me of the village people :D

don't be afraid to define those curves a bit more -- use your smoothing groups to define facial features a bit better too.

lol yes the village people with their new characters like the russian and the gasmask guy :P

mmm thanks for the suggestion i might have a play around with that. In my sumea main page journal thinger falco asked for for wires and polycount, and since chuck the texan has been the most popular out of anyone who's seen the group i thought id do him.

[img]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/attached/MoonUnit/20056305412_chuckwires…]

The original base model was triangulated to be put into game but all the extra parts that make chuck unique are new they havent been yet, something to keep in mind when looking that over (they will be ofcourse, just that will be one of the later things i do as im still working with the geometry).

i noted someone else told you to post your efforts in exhibition but it would have been better to start your own thread as apposed to posting in someones allready existing one for showing the progress of their project. It helps to keep a focus and a "thread" of discussion. Im not a moderator or anything but things are just neater that way.