http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html
Hrmmmm..... [?]
When I first came across this post last night about 3 hours after it was posted no-one had replied. One day later there are hundreds!
While I'd guess that this doesn't reflect the attitude of EA towards all of its employees, its ridiculous that even a minority should have to cope with such conditions. Given california's laws on these sorts of things, I think its incredible that any employees put up with it, especially if the project was on schedule the whole time.
hehe, see some of my earlier posts and you'll see that this has been going on for a while. In fact, one of my coworkers replyed to the slashdot posting of this article describing how life sucked on generals. Ahhh, how's it's nice to be in the defence industry now where they make you go home at 40 hours. So much for simulating submarines, now I actually write code for them :)
[url]http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=129283&threshold=1&commentsor…]
Edit - added some links to other sumea threads that I know of about the same topic, one in fact deals with another disgruntled spouce.
[url]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1857[/url]
[url]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1760[/url]
[url]http://www.sumea.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=525[/url]
The quality of life for game developers is a scary situation.
How do developers here find the working conditions (it seems that for the most part we have it better then many OS developers)? And is the situation likely to improve? Perhaps there should indeed be game developers unions?
The problem seems to come from there being so many developers desperately wanting to work for studios. In a way this connects with that geek tag thread, as maybe it?s the way game dev people are perceived that causes upper management to miss-treat them? Just because we love making games, doesn?t mean we should be treated differently. Other areas of software development also have large numbers of people trying to break in, but look how well they get treated (they work hard, but get properly compensated). And you can?t say that they don?t love what they do. So how are we (game developers) different?
? it can be a curse having a passion for something [:(]
geeze it's stuff like this that makes me want to try for an ordinary office job... Sure making games would be more interesting, but it's seriously not worth sacrificing health, family and friends for. If I was so passionate about gaming that I gave up everything else, that would be a little sad... And scary.
Sounds like the gaming industry will eat your soul...
Jason,
It's not limited to the games industry, not at all. On a recent death-march project I was on, we were regularly pulled into meetings with the weekends chopped up into eight-hour shifts, and we then had to fill all the shifts. This was in the second year of a two-year head-office declared "worldwide pay freeze", with most of the people on the project working in higher duties without higher pay. Rapidly, the "pay for on-call" we were expecting became "pay only if called in to the office - mobile must always be on". Five calls on Christmas day and two on New Years. Yay.
I was personally present where the manager went into the HR records to find a staff member's unlisted home phone number because the staff member had turned off their mobile.
Then, management decided that "time in leiu" would only be granted for saturday and sunday work. That is, those of us pulling 72hours work in four weekdays so we culd have a weekend would get nada, nothing.
One manager actually said "well, as if you're going to find a job elsewhere"? (this in the middle of the brisbane IT job-market doldrums of course).
Don't even mention the part where the estimate of a three week build and three week test was turned into a promise by the VP to the customer to "deliver in 7 days".
I finally realised that it's just part of life in IT (whether it should or not is another question), but at the very least I should be doing it in something I enjoy. Sure, the situation at EA sounds bad, but also eerily familiar.
I think the fact that these people are working with games, management thinks that for half the time they're at work they play games or something, hence to them an 80 hour work week would break down into 40 hours actual work and 40 hours game playing or something?
But yeah, now I see why you *really* quit the profession DaMunkee....
*sigh*
Sometimes I wonder where all the money in the industry goes when a large company like EA regularly screws it's employees over big time and turns massive profits. What scares me most is that answer to that question - and what kind of skewed human being would actually approve of that kind of practise simply because they stand to gain so much "wealth" (a very loose usage of the word) from it.
Go to Freeplay/IGDC and witness the massive amount of industry related cynicism, having witnessed this and done some soul searching I've been totally turned off the idea of making games via the normal retail/commercial avenues.
A company email about the current lawsuit against EA. It amazes me that they included sentences like "tightly managed cost structure", "committed to keeping EA a growing Company". If their employees were being screwed over, the last thing they'd want to hear from their managers are things about company profit and growth. The email seems more concerned about their development process rather than the problem. :/
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl, Nick
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 3:51 PM
To: STUDIO RFT @ EAHQ; Testing RFT@ EARS
Subject: FAQ on Recent Legal Action
On Friday, we were served with a class-action lawsuit claiming that Artists in our California studios are not correctly classified under California labor regulations regarding overtime pay. This suit was filed jointly by two law firms ? one in San Francisco and a second in Boston ? with one employee named as the plaintiff.
Unfortunately, under the rules of class-action lawsuits, the one short-tenured employee and lawyers now speak as a representative voice for every one of our Artists on this matter -- whether the Artists know they are included or not.
We believe EA has been fair and we will vigorously defend our position. Still, the lawsuit could drag on for many years and could have a significant long-term impact on our compensation, benefits and development process.
The two law firms may use the media to draw attention to the case. If you get any questions from the outside, please do not comment and instead refer them to Jeff Brown at x87922.
Because you all may have questions, I have attached a FAQ below which I encourage you to review. Because none of us are lawyers I urge you to use caution in what you say and write on email regarding this issue. Additionally, we will talk about this in further detail at our next All Hands.
We remain, regardless of challenges, committed to keeping EA a growing Company that will deliver successfully on our mission and objectives.
Thanks,
Nick
FAQ
What?s this lawsuit about?
This is a very sensitive issue that the entire digital entertainment industry is grappling with. Fundamentally, it is about re-defining who makes creative decisions in the development process. There?s no clear cut, final answer as each new generation of technology forces us to re-examine jobs and responsibilities.
What?s a class action lawsuit?
In essence, it?s a suit that aims to resolve legal questions for categories of employees rather than a single individual who has worked for us a very short time.
What are they suing for?
This gets into complex legal questions that our attorneys are sorting out and addressing. In most situations the attorneys fund and fuel these suits and take a large percentage of any settlements.
Why does EA oppose the suit?
We?re concerned any time one employee and a group of lawyers takes any action that could significantly change our compensation, benefits and studio development process.
If EA?s a #1 People Company, why don?t we just pay them?
EA succeeds because we combine good wages and benefits with a tightly managed cost structure. We believe that we?ve paid our people fairly and legally and EA pays for a lot of great benefits such as gyms, cafeterias, day care, game rooms as well as bonuses, benefits and stock options. On a global basis, it would be very challenging to pay for all that and then add additional compensation.
"...Great benefits such as gyms, cafeterias, day care, game rooms.... " The day care is all well and good, but the other options seem like areas to have a rest in or soak up some of that 'time away from work' - which to me sounds like these guys just arent getting any of, and even when these guys did get a chance to break away why the heck would they want to spend that time at the work gym ? ( presuming they had families / partners etc )
I guess the question that I ask myself over and over again is " Would I give my life up for an undefined period to break my back for a game? "
The only answer I can come up with at this stage is - it really depends on how well i know the 'man' in charge.
If hes a successful businessman and is good with figures - then the answer would likely be " A super-excessive wage may tempt me, but highly unlikely " This type of person is more likely to be all about the figures and the end result, *NOT* the journey, the trials tribulations and unbelievable learning experience that comes with completing a next gen title. Hence unrealistic deadlines - massive endless crunchtimes and a general " why isnt this done yet? " stance.
On the other hand if the guy was a people person - understood what projects were all about, possibly using his own money to fund the project - and showed a keen interest in looking after his team, then i'd seriously look into it.
The difference is I would bend over backward for the guy using his own money to fund something. Managers just dont care when the money isnt theirs - its human nature, and it breeds in all of us, just some exceedingly worse than others [:P]
Whats everyones thoughts on that ?
What gets me is why they were *forced* to work heaps of overtime - 60 hours - when the gmae was still on schedule, and then they still had to go through a great crunch period to get it done on time? This looks to me like a symptom of really bad management. Coincidentally those are the people that remain when half the programmers leave.
Thought this summed it up quite to the point.
[url]http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041114[/url]
[url="http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=21438&mode=thread&order=0"]EA looking into buying Digital Illusions[/url] (developers of Battlefield 1942, Vietnam etc (they've had a long history going back to the Amiga as well).
"Digital Illusions' Board of Directors unanimously recommends to the DICE shareholders that they accept the EA offer. Joining EA will accelerate DICE's transition to development for new platforms, including the next generation consoles expected in 2006-2007."
For gods sakes, don't do it Digital Illusions! EA have a history of buying up developers, running their good titles into the ground, and eventually dissolving the original team. The original Medal of Honour team, Maxis, Westwood Studios, the original Need for Speed team etc... In the end, EA get another license to develop at their sweatshop camps at LA, Quebec, and California. I remember being impressed by the pictures of the buildings/facilites that EA provided their employees (someone posted a link in the forum a while ago) but knowing what the working conditions there are like now, it sure doesn't look like the creative haven I thought it was.
BTW, there's a [url="http://games.slashdot.org/games/04/11/13/208253.shtml?tid=146&tid=187&t…"]whitepaper on the culture at EA[/url] written by a University Professor. Pretty eye opening stuff.
maybe should just stop buying ea products and tell everyone you know to do the same.
its upsetting to hear stuff like that, especially when you try to do the right thing and buy games to support the industry when it's so easy to pirate them. Then, hear that they treat their people like shit.
bastards.
Yeah, after reading all about EA, I?ve decided to try my hardest not to spend any money on an EA title (unless I really really must have it [;)]). Here we are in the 21st century and one of the biggest companies in the Western world continues to practice slave labour. Bastards.
Damn, I was really looking forward to Need for Speed Underground 2! But I?ll take my money elsewhere until they clean up their act.
Hmm, Michael Moore should do a doco on the games industry and EA.
Just got a newsletter from the IGDA containing an open letter about the quality of life issue. It's definately worth a read - [url="http://www.igda.org/qol/open_letter.php"]Quality of Life Issues are Holding Back the Game Industry[/url].
It's old news now, but the [url="http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/21/1746257&tid=187&tid=9…"]NY Times have made a report on it all[/url]. It's amazing to see every gaming/game development website discussing it all, and I wonder what the executives and managers at EA are thinking right about now...
Management in this industry, in my experience, is so terrible it's beyond a joke. There are so many producers that don't know their ass from their elbow about managing a game project. How much they get paid for doing nothing at all makes we want to cry, and they can get away with it is by making devs work insane hours. I have heard stories from some of my colleagues about producers who will just walk in for one day of the week, scream at the devs and threaten their jobs, then stay at home for the rest of the week. It's an unfortunate fact that there is nothing in place to stop this kind of practice.
quote:Originally posted by Souri
It's old news now, but the [url="http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/21/1746257&tid=187&tid=9…"]NY Times have made a report on it all[/url]. It's amazing to see every gaming/game development website discussing it all, and I wonder what the executives and managers at EA are thinking right about now...
Probably very little, besides they would be too busy counting there "hard earned" dollars.
"Leaked memo shows efforts to improve working conditions at industry's top publisher
An internal memo from EA's senior vice president of human resources Rusty Rueff to staff at the company has revealed that the firm is contemplating a change to how it classifies jobs with regard to overtime eligibility.
The memo, which was distributed to staff at the leading publisher's worldwide offices earlier this week, is the most direct response yet seen to the flood of negative reports about the company's treatment of employees which emerged last month."
http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=5789
And here is the memo...
"The last few weeks of reading blogs and the media about EA culture and work practices have not been easy. I know personally how hard it is when so much of the news seems negative. We have purposefully not responded to web logs and the media because the best way to communicate is directly with you, our team members.
As much as I don?t like what?s been said about our company and our industry, I recognize that at the heart of the matter is a core truth: the work is getting harder, the tasks are more complex and the hours needed to accomplish them have become a burden. We haven?t yet cracked the code on how to fully minimize the crunches in the development and production process. Net, there are things we just need to fix. And the solutions don?t apply to just our studios -- the people who market, sell, distribute and support the great games that our Studios create, all share a demanding workload.
Three weeks ago we issued our bi-annual Talk Back Survey and more than 80 percent of you participated ? much higher than the norm for a company our size. That tells me you care and are committed to making EA better. In the next 30 days we?ll have the survey results and we will share them openly with you by the middle of January.
Your feedback in the Talk Back Survey will help us make changes in the coming year, but we?re not waiting -- some changes are already in the works in the Studios. Here are just a few:
The Studios will be moving to a consistent application of the Renderware Platform. We bought Criterion because we believe there is no better technology platform (25% of all games in our industry are being built on RW). Having a standardized technology approach will save us from having to re-invent the wheel over and over. It will save time and effort we used to spend navigating technology issues.
Every member of the Studio will have gone through Pre-Production Training by the end of December (Tiburon will be going through their training in January when they move into their new facility). We understand the toll taken on our teams when we change directions late in the process. We are putting more teeth in our preproduction discipline to ensure that we more fully define and agree (at all levels) on what the features of the game will be before we scale up teams.
We?ve started a Development Process Improvement Project to get smarter and improve efficiency. Just as we have revamped the Pre-Production process, we are now creating a Product Development Map that will provide earlier decision-making (on SKUS and game features), improve our consistency of creative direction, and lessen the number of late in the process changes, firedrills, and crunches. We will be rolling these changes out over the next year.
We are looking at reclassifying some jobs to overtime eligible in the new Fiscal Year. We have resisted this in the past, not because we don?t want to pay overtime, but because we believe that the wage and hour laws have not kept pace with the kind of work done at technology companies, the kind of employees those companies attract and the kind of compensation packages their employees prefer. We consider our artists to be ?creative? people and our engineers to be ?skilled? professionals who relish flexibility but others use the outdated wage and hour laws to argue in favor of a workforce that is paid hourly like more traditional industries and conforming to set schedules. But we can?t wait for the legislative process to catch up so we?re forced to look at making some changes to exempt and non-exempt classifications beginning in April.
So, there are things in the works short-term, longer-term, along with those ideas that will come from you over the next few months.
Here is what I know about our progress as a Company.
First, we have the best people in this industry and arguably in the entire entertainment industry. Globally, we are now over 5000 strong and we continue to win in the market place. Year after year, our games finish at the top of the charts with the best ratings. We like to compete and we like to win.
Second, we?re doing something that no one has ever done before: No entertainment software company has ever scaled to this size. We take it for granted sometimes, but it?s important to recognize this fact. Every day is a learning day with new competitors, new consumers, new people working on bigger teams ? and all of this amid rapidly changing technology. We experiment, we learn from our mistakes, we adapt and we grow.
Most important: we recognize that this doesn?t get fixed with one email or in one month. It?s an on-going process of communication and change. And while I realize that the issue today is how we work ? I think we should all remember that there are also a lot of great benefits to working at EA that are not offered at other companies. With some smart thinking and specific actions we will fix these issues and become stronger as a company.
Thanks for taking time to read this.
Rusty"
quote:But we can?t wait for the legislative process to catch up so we?re forced to look at making some changes to exempt and non-exempt classifications beginning in April.
Or: "Yes we have been breaking the law. However we belive the Law should change to be the same as out policy on not paying staff for overtime, but as that is not going to happen and because someone is taking action against us, we will change out policy to a legal one. You big whingers. "
I always love how when caught doing something wrong, people pretend that they did it with your best interests at heart.
Pantmonger
Yeah, that's quite a scary article if you think about it. Even more so when you realise that they will never really run out of employees if they keep on re-recruiting. I wonder what people that used to work at EA have to say about this? (hint hint)...