Referance Pose

Submitted by bullet21 on
Forum
Artists

just a quick question. when you are drawing your referance to be modelled in 3D, do you draw the front view with arms out ant 95 degrees or at 45 degrees. It's jsut that i see some do it some way and other do it other ways. What are the pros and cons

Submitted by Malus on Wed, 28/07/04 - 5:34 AMPermalink

For a concept I try to get a pose that show the feeling of the character.

For a model sheet on the other hand I generally find the mid point of the limb extensions, basically the middle of its possible movement arc, this is going to be the best for modelling as it spreads the deformation over the mesh evenly.

Remember, a good modeller knows the limitations his/her model will have when it comes to animating it, stand up and act out your intended moves and see how and where your model will need to bend.

The less obvious and intrusive you make the flaws (all models have flaws, don't kid yourself [:P]) the better the model will deform for the animator using it, which is good because they will love you instead of hunting you down. lol

Submitted by MoonUnit on Wed, 28/07/04 - 7:47 AMPermalink

ive heard it argued that 45 is better because realisticly people barely hold out there arms at right angles to their torsos (but ofcourse you want some space for ease of use when modelling). Personally i find 90 easier but thats just me.

Submitted by Pantmonger on Wed, 28/07/04 - 4:52 PMPermalink

I model with the arm roughly at 45, but I draw the orthographic with them parallel to the characters torso with a little bend in the arm. I draw the ortho like this because if I drew the arms at 90 to the body they would be of little use to me in the side view. (I would need a top view to get the ?side? view of the arms)

Pantmonger

Submitted by palantir on Wed, 28/07/04 - 5:10 PMPermalink

I thought the main reason for modelling the limbs as far away from the body as possible is to make rigging the mesh for animation easier. In my limited animation experience (mostly with character studio), if you have the limbs too close to the body (even with arms at 45), the limbs can end up grabbing verts from the body when you set up the envelope.

Submitted by bullet21 on Wed, 28/07/04 - 5:58 PMPermalink

So that's 2 for 90 degrees and 1 for 45 i think malus is 45 degrees as well. It's just that Paul steed uses 45 degrees and that ben mathis guy uses 90, two of my favourite tutors :)

Submitted by codyalday on Thu, 29/07/04 - 2:33 AMPermalink

I use 45, as that is what I have only done, but it seems that 90 is easier to Model And Rig.

Ben Mathis, never heard of him, he have a Web Site?

Submitted by Malus on Thu, 29/07/04 - 3:22 AMPermalink

45 and 90 are just numbers, you can't use them for every character, my god man! [:P]

People quote that as a guide so that you will have something to go on, yes it is too get the limbs as far away from the body as possible for rigging etc but mainly its for deformation during animation.

Wierd example but you'll get the point:
What if your character always animates with its arms forward? Don't ask me why but he does, how would modelling the arms out at 40 or 90 degrees to its side help? It wouldn't, the mesh would deform horribly hen pulled forward, you need to have the characters arms in there mid poses as per animations it will have.

Submitted by bullet21 on Thu, 29/07/04 - 4:19 AMPermalink

I've been using 45, but i think i'll start using 90 degrees from now on. I think it prolly would be easier to model.

Submitted by Aven on Thu, 29/07/04 - 6:05 AMPermalink

Bullet - As many of the members have said, the arms (and legs) are posed at a chosen angle due to the deformations that will be needed. If you find it easier to model the arms while they are at a 45 degree angle, but the deformations would look better at a more bent angle, then model the arm at 90 degrees, grab all the verts and rotate them. Tweak as needed. You don't have to start modelling something one set way and then stick to it. Go for what works best :)

Posted by bullet21 on
Forum
Artists

just a quick question. when you are drawing your referance to be modelled in 3D, do you draw the front view with arms out ant 95 degrees or at 45 degrees. It's jsut that i see some do it some way and other do it other ways. What are the pros and cons

Submitted by Malus on Wed, 28/07/04 - 5:34 AMPermalink

For a concept I try to get a pose that show the feeling of the character.

For a model sheet on the other hand I generally find the mid point of the limb extensions, basically the middle of its possible movement arc, this is going to be the best for modelling as it spreads the deformation over the mesh evenly.

Remember, a good modeller knows the limitations his/her model will have when it comes to animating it, stand up and act out your intended moves and see how and where your model will need to bend.

The less obvious and intrusive you make the flaws (all models have flaws, don't kid yourself [:P]) the better the model will deform for the animator using it, which is good because they will love you instead of hunting you down. lol

Submitted by MoonUnit on Wed, 28/07/04 - 7:47 AMPermalink

ive heard it argued that 45 is better because realisticly people barely hold out there arms at right angles to their torsos (but ofcourse you want some space for ease of use when modelling). Personally i find 90 easier but thats just me.

Submitted by Pantmonger on Wed, 28/07/04 - 4:52 PMPermalink

I model with the arm roughly at 45, but I draw the orthographic with them parallel to the characters torso with a little bend in the arm. I draw the ortho like this because if I drew the arms at 90 to the body they would be of little use to me in the side view. (I would need a top view to get the ?side? view of the arms)

Pantmonger

Submitted by palantir on Wed, 28/07/04 - 5:10 PMPermalink

I thought the main reason for modelling the limbs as far away from the body as possible is to make rigging the mesh for animation easier. In my limited animation experience (mostly with character studio), if you have the limbs too close to the body (even with arms at 45), the limbs can end up grabbing verts from the body when you set up the envelope.

Submitted by bullet21 on Wed, 28/07/04 - 5:58 PMPermalink

So that's 2 for 90 degrees and 1 for 45 i think malus is 45 degrees as well. It's just that Paul steed uses 45 degrees and that ben mathis guy uses 90, two of my favourite tutors :)

Submitted by codyalday on Thu, 29/07/04 - 2:33 AMPermalink

I use 45, as that is what I have only done, but it seems that 90 is easier to Model And Rig.

Ben Mathis, never heard of him, he have a Web Site?

Submitted by Malus on Thu, 29/07/04 - 3:22 AMPermalink

45 and 90 are just numbers, you can't use them for every character, my god man! [:P]

People quote that as a guide so that you will have something to go on, yes it is too get the limbs as far away from the body as possible for rigging etc but mainly its for deformation during animation.

Wierd example but you'll get the point:
What if your character always animates with its arms forward? Don't ask me why but he does, how would modelling the arms out at 40 or 90 degrees to its side help? It wouldn't, the mesh would deform horribly hen pulled forward, you need to have the characters arms in there mid poses as per animations it will have.

Submitted by bullet21 on Thu, 29/07/04 - 4:19 AMPermalink

I've been using 45, but i think i'll start using 90 degrees from now on. I think it prolly would be easier to model.

Submitted by Aven on Thu, 29/07/04 - 6:05 AMPermalink

Bullet - As many of the members have said, the arms (and legs) are posed at a chosen angle due to the deformations that will be needed. If you find it easier to model the arms while they are at a 45 degree angle, but the deformations would look better at a more bent angle, then model the arm at 90 degrees, grab all the verts and rotate them. Tweak as needed. You don't have to start modelling something one set way and then stick to it. Go for what works best :)