On the outside it looks as though all is great, the power hitters of the Australian game industry are all working on projects and there are a few jobs laying around for those with enough ambition and skill to nab them.
However is all as good as it seems? Australian developers are forced by American publishers to design and develop their titles so that they can be squarely aimed at the American audience. An understandable move since the vast majority of people who purchase their games will in fact be American themselves.
This I feel is very bad for the health and state of the game industy in our country. How are we going to distinguish ourselves as a nation of great game developers if we are forced by those who control the purse strings to make stuff that looks and feels like all the rest of the American stuff on the market?
Developers get feed the lines, ?you will alienate the American market? or ?they won't go for it? which I rekon is a load of crap. Some aspect or another of ?Australian? culture (its always a bit distorted) is popular in the United States, take for example the crocodile hunter. Love it or Hate it and no matter how it distorts the image of the Average Aussie it is a show that has a Australian flavor and is HUGE in America. Then if you take a look at our ?motherland? (the Brits) they have always been avid fans of our soaps.
We CAN push whats left of our culture onto other nations in the form of Electronic Entertainment, cept don't do it like a crappy T.V. show. Aussie Developers are a pretty clever bunch of people we know you CAN make games with fresh and FUN gameplay, just don't be afraid to give it an Australian setting and storyline.
But how mochumbo? Our publisher laughed at us and told us that they could never sell a game with Bunyip in the title. Well i'm not sure of an immediate solution, what I do know is that a government funded firm similar to the Australian Film Finance Commision is required to help make this happen. Don't the government realise that film is a rusting artform and games are the way of the future?
Anyways nothing like a morning rant to kickstart the day.
No, I had not seen Ty (I'm more of a PC gamer). I have to say this is EXACTLY what i'm talking about, a big thumbs upto Krome for making what looks like a great game and EA for forking out the funds. I think I might have to buy a cube or a ps2 just for this one. My whole point is, no matter what kind of games you make or genre you are into you can give it an Australian flavor. Ty is an EXCELENT example of what i'm on about and I just wish that there were more games out there like it.
I'm not suggesting that every developer make a game that is super oker, just don't be afraid to give your games an Australian edge to them.
I'm just wondering WHY you feel that games need to be produced that have an "Australian" flavour?
IMO the number of games that have a specifically american flavour are quite small (usually a handful of military and sports type games).
I don't think that not having specifically australian flavoured games is bad at all for the industry. If anything it shows we are creative enough to go beyond the borders of our country and think freely...
CYer, Blitz
I'd like to think that good gaming transcends cultural barriers like basing it on a certain country's "flavour". Plus obviously Australia isn't the most dazzlingly rich in history place in the world. Most of Australia's history is largely ignored. If I were to set my game anywhere, it would definitely be in Europe, seeing as it actually has a rich culture and history and some atmosphere.
The problem is making a game based on an Aussie stereotype, or figurehead, isn't exactly creative genius. It's clearly not much more than a gimmick - and it's not going to be marketeable because of that. Ozzie gimmicks are a niche market. Alot of mass market products aren't necessarily rich in American culture either (except for the guns solve everything attitude :) ). I mean, name a product that was successful because of it's purely American-culture related material or marketing?
(actually I can't think of any, and I'm sure there's some out there, so please do!)
America's army didn't do too badly :P
The NFL games do very well from what i can tell, and the basketball games. Like i said, mainly only sports and the odd military game are very american influenced.
Even a game such as splinter cell (to take a recent example) isn't exactly highly influenced by american culture, even though the main character/organisation is american. It could have been english and would have sold just as well, and been exactly the same game except for a couple name changes and changing peoples accents.
But i agree with maitrks post above when he says "good gaming transcends cultural barriers".
CYer, Blitz
I can understand what both you are saying that "gaming transcends cultural barriers" and i'm not suggesting that we make all games based on Aussie stereotypes. Although the odd one here and there is not all bad (ty looks so funny and cool.). But I do want to be able to play as an Australian side in my favorite RTS. I do want play a hitman style game set in the Bushranger era of South Eastern Australia and I do want my role playing games to feature giant killer wombats.
Maitrek: your suggestion that Australia has a dull and boring history is offensive. Yes we may only have 200 odd years of White fella's history on this big brown nation, but we have achieved just as much as any other nation in that time frame. Not to mention the 30,000 years of aborignal history that precded europeans landing on this country! As for games with American-culture:
*mafia (i love mob films and the sorpranos is my favorite tv show. So i like this game... yet American mob culture)
*sof series (your American gun culture in a bag here)
*Grand Theft Auto Series (organised crime and gun culture again... yet a very fun game, that could be set anywhere)
There are more, that have American characters and settings (which can be ANY WHERE in ANY CULTURE, but more often they are American) take Return to Castle wolf, American soldier duking it out with ze germans? I would much prefer see a Brit in that role. (A bit of bad example as that would be messing with the great, the orignal) I personally would like to make games based on Australian culture, but if you want to set it in Europe thats also great!! Just don't go setting it in America with American characters, because there are PLENTY of American developers out there already doing just that.
Well for one Ty sucks.
I hold no loyalty to developers for any reason after RARE.
The developed the best FPS game and pioneered the idea of stealth over Quake style run and gun. Also realism, gadgets, objective based missions (in an FPS) rather than kill kill kill kill ooo exit.
After that i thought RARE were da bomb. But they only made banjo kazooie and all the others were standard or below. Most of the good dev guys from goldeneye left after to work on timesplitters series which has excellent gameplay but shoddy story.
So the point is regardless if its an aussie developer if the game isn't good then it doesn't matter
I would have to agree there aren't THAT many games that are really american flavoured although you will rarely see POV's (in story line or anything else) that aren't american. Most games bad guys won't speak english or will with an accent. etc.
It is infact ants who are the true rulers of this world!!!
I'm not going to argue with someone as patriotic as yourself too much, because that's just clearly two areas that we differ in, and I don't want to offend you again. But I have a couple of things to say none the less....and you actually brought up a point I considered, that a bush ranger game could make for some interesting gaming. Although I'd hardly be the one to push this idea, seeing as it's amoral and a violent game style, but it is a new twist on a familiar theme which can be popular with the average gaming public and publishers themselves.
I'd have to say, that the I find the title of the game Mafia kind of funny, seeing as it is actually an organised crime syndicate based in one city in Palermo, Sicilia in Italia, and in fact, the italian-american new york gangsta mob are called "the mob" and calling them the mafia is simply a misnomer. I actually think a game set in Sicily would be a way better setting for the game too, but perhaps this is an example of american marketing :)
I just don't think that taking any current game, and twisting the theme to fit into Australian culture is a positive step for the industry because it gives the impression we are a bunch of creative f***wits and until we move away from obsession with guns and warfare and to a more internationally popular flavour of games, Americans will always paste themselves as the good guys, because that actually will help sales due to the fact that they are an extremely patriotic nation that is full of pride for what they have achieved (just as you are with Australia) and there are more of them than there are of us - hence making a bigger market.
Americans are violence-based conflict obsessed! That's why that market is so good, because that's what games are about....it's such a great mixture from a marketing/publishing point of view. However if games were more diverse in their gameplay perhaps then different settings would be explored.
If you want to play the Australian side in the game and get treated as some kind of military lab rat/cannon fodder on the shores of Gallipoli, be my guest :) But the facts of the matter is, Europe/America are the most war mongering nations, whereas I'd much rather paint Australia as a nation of peace in games.
(rant)
even though we have laid down our lives in war before, making games about it is not the way to celebrate the loss of lives, and it's a pretty disgusting tribute to the atrocity of war as well.
(/rant)
Just my two cents...
I really think that multi-cultural non-divisive/secularist games are a far better idea. For instance, why are the Germans always the bad guys? How does that make them feel? Or Russia, or what about middle eastern nations? The problem with this kind of good guy vs. bad guy gaming is that it has two sides to it! *You* might want to be the good guy, and thats great, but what about the people you paint as the bad guys?
In any good guy v. bad guy conflict I draft into my game, the conflict is on ideals *alone*, and there is no naming of nations or any identity associated with either side except for what they think, and I think that this should be more prominent in developers' minds to promote more responsible games and perhaps a better picture of what makes up something bad, and something good, other than a name/identity associated with it.
Of course - in the case of historical games based on actual warfare this is a different story, here the subject matter is from a far more depersonalised viewpoint, where you'll find that most strategy gamers will choose to be either the good or bad guys, just for the challenge of winning the battle. But that doesn't mean to say that Germans/Japanese/Vietnamese will be at all happy about the concept of other nations enjoying virtually kicking their asses.
Also, seeing as history has already been written by the winners, the 'evil' guys in these games have no argument to defend themselves, and their point of view is often ignored (I'm not disagreeing that some of the nations that I have virutally wiped out weren't evil :) We all have a bit of a war-mongering side sometimes), but it is generally considered that war is a justified mass slaughter. (note : I personally disagree with society on this one and I'll end the crap about it now and I don't expect a response, hopefully this just helps people see where I'm coming from)
As for my view on pure-Australian gaming?
Like I said above, bushranger would be interesting, despite the somewhat amoral gaming, also the goldrush could make for some interesting gaming - however it's slightly harder to make a *fun* marketeable game out of seeing as you don't kill much in the gold rush.
I can't say I've ever really thought about it much. Like I said, I base conflict on ideals and situations, rather than any particular pre-crafted historic evil such as nazism, communism etc etc, and the characters in the games may or may not be from particular nations, that's really random in many senses.
And finally as for Australianised content in games, somehow I doubt that it will happen, alot of content in games is either based on historical content (and as I stated Australia hasn't had a *huge* global impact), standard tolkein fantasy (which has nothing to do with any real nations), or modern/futuristic dystopian cyberpunk americanised stuff. Fitting Australianism inside is kind of hard...perhaps Australian ideals/characters can be put into some games (not ala Ozzie Mandril (?) or whatever in Escape from Monkey Island) but it's not likely we'll see giant killer platypi in games anytime soon.
Sorry for the long posts dudes! Please flame with equal fervour :P
quote:Originally posted by Maitrek
Americans will always paste themselves as the good guys, because that actually will help sales due to the fact that they are an extremely patriotic nation that is full of pride for what they have achieved (just as you are with Australia) and there are more of them than there are of us - hence making a bigger market.Americans are violence-based conflict obsessed! That's why that market is so good, because that's what games are about....it's such a great mixture from a marketing/publishing point of view. However if games were more diverse in their gameplay perhaps then different settings would be explored.
Umm *blink* I'm an American and I am not conflict obsessed. Thats a rather general statement with nothing other then your belief to back it up.
If you follow that train of thought then many other countries would be just as big in the market. Israel or Ireland just off the top of my head.
"Yes I Code"
As found on AGDC name tag 2002
Sorry : this might seem a little bit b****y and will probably get removed.
*sigh*
Everyone time you stereotype a bunch of people, one of the people who I've just stereotyped pipes up about the fact they don't fit into the category.
Clarification (these are always needed) when I make a stereotype, in fact genereally when anyone does, it doesn't mean I have just judged you personally, I've just judged a large group of people, and made a general statement which doesn't apply to anyone in particular, nor does it apply to everyone in that group. That's a basic fact about stereotypes. There are plenty of Americans who aren't violence-conflict obsessed, but I might bring this quote of yours to life to kind of illustrate what I mean about gamers in general.
quote: Jacana : I have played Quake, Doom, Heretic, Hexen and I really liked these titles. Heck! Even Duke Nukem was not that bad - tho the porn theater and chick calenders was a real eye roller.
...
I do lan, I do frag, I do snicker when I sniper someone with a grenade launcher. Its funny.
One of my more recent shooters was Serious Sam Second Encounter (I think thats the title). It had a good co-op mode but even more impressive was the gore settings!
Peaceful conflict resolving? Nah :P
Okay, I also clearly recognise that these aren't the only games you've played - I'm just quoting, and NO, that doesn't prove you are violence conflict obsessed either...notice how I carefully crafted that quote to miss the bit about the flower mode to make you appear extra bloodthirsty? :P
Plus there is only 3.8 million people in Ireland, there are 6.1 million people in Israel, compared to 285 million people in America (including obviously Alaska and Hawaii etc). And compare the GDP per capita of the countries as you see what I mean by it being a big market.
And the fact that a fair percentage of americans *aren't* violence-based conflict obsessed is also your own personal belief wiht nothing else to back it up. There were ~ 11,000 firearms deaths last year, resulting in 38.5 deaths per 100,000. Compare that to Australia, (the most recent statistic I could find was 1999, and it's allegedly in decline) is 16.8 gun-related deaths per 100,000. At least 10% of those deaths in America are to fend off assault/criminals.
Let's start a violence game.
4 points goes to the victor of each section, 3 2 1 for the next places. We'll use Australia, Ireland, Israel and USA. All taken from www.interpol.int (these statistics may not be brilliant, but they are a start).
Robbery and violent theft per 100,000 inhabitants (1999)
Australia : 121.72
Ireland : 54.27
Israel : 29.48
USA : 144.92
Homicides per 100,000 inhabitants
Australia = 3.62
Ireland = 1.41
Israel = 2.22
USA = 5.51
Rape
Ausralia : n/a (although australia sits just above Israel for sex offences)
Ireland : 6.01
Israel : 16.00 (most likely alot of unreported)
USA : 32.05
Serious assault
Australia = 736.69
Ireland = 12.38
Israel = 491.82
USA = 323.62
Whose the winner? Any takers?
Australia gets 13 points.
Ireland gets 5 points
Israel gets 8 points
America gets 14 points.
Being Australian we generally only show bad news about America and very rarely anything good, so my perspective would lack a bit of accuracy. I personally don't think that highly of Australia either, but where I live is reasonably quiet.
Don't take this personally, I don't use stereotypes to judge people, just to judge a gemographic or a market, I judge each person on their own merits.
Snootchie bootchies!
I agree, i wouldn't consider americans any more "violence-based conflict obsessed" than any other nationality. I might say that in general, a lot of americans are very unaware of what goes on outside their country, at least more so than mose other nationalities i've met. I don't mean to offend anyone with this, but i have travelled to a few places, and a lot of americans i've met tend to be pretty ignorant about the outside world. I've actually had several people in america ask if i rode a kangaroo to school haha, and many of them believed that everyone kept koala's as pets similar to the way they keep dogs and cats :)
Anyway, i think violent games sell just as well in any other country that they are available as they do in america (per capita of game buyers of coruse).
CYer, Blitz
Okay, I say this stuff a little bit tongue in cheek, and it's not supposed to be taken that seriously...the last post? It's not even conclusive about whether Americans are violence obsessed or not, it's just got some crap statistics about violent crime...which has nothing to do with violence based media and entertainment, I'm making an analysis of the gaming market in America! Not about people or anything really that politcally important.
Why pick such a minor point from one of my posts when there are plenty of other better ones to discuss - and more on topic ones as well? Do people disagree about putting an Australian theme into a current game? What do people think about the identity of bad guys in gaming? Stay on topic people, just because I am flame-bait doesn't mean it's productive to test my asbestos suit.
Anyone have an international flavour of gaming to suggest? One that isn't based around sole american v bad guys? We are game developers, not mud slingers.
Snootchie bootchies!
Maitrek: I never really thought of myself as being patriotic, but I guess I would have to be. Which is a shame really, since being super patriotic really isn't an Australian trait. most are laid back and have little interest in the way the country runs and wonders why the hell they even bother with the second verse of the national anthem, since they sure as hell don't know it (neither do I) I just got a little irrated that you could fob 200 years off history as being a yawn, when its excatly the same history that has provided you with the way of life you are currently living.
But i'm with you 100% in just giving a standard game an Australian twist or flavor not being creative. The real challenge is creating new and innovative game play (and in your case that has no violence) but why not stamp your culture on it why you are it?
Your idea of removing the Germans, Russians as always being the bad guys is a good one, and I like it.... However again it has to be all about the gameplay. You have to be doing something new, not a rehash of the same old stuff but with a different bad guy. This is what its all about, getting out there and making something that is DIFFERENT to everything else. If you had an Australian industry (and publishers to support it) that would go out there and say no i'm not going to make a game where the Americans wipe out such and such... again. I rekon we would have a much healthier industry
I like your Australian Gold rush idea, making innovative game play that goes beyond a standard "tycoon" series of game would be the hard task though.
Hrmmm international gaming:
bit of violence in this one:
A multiplayer game thats lock stock style england, you are in small teams of 2-3 and are given a task "steal this", "kidnap such and such", etc. Now the real twist is that there are 6-7 of these stories that intertwine and you would actually be pitted against someone who has an apposing story line. You wouldn't relise that you were apart of a much bigger underlying story untill you had played 6-7 rounds and gone through all the sub plots. Basically an extension of my mod bystander http://bystander.ausgamers.com (yes its in an Australian setting, and yes I think it has innovative game play)
So perhaps a better idea would be to discuss what exactly constitutes an Australian type of game? Aside from Squatter I'm pretty much flat on my arse for ideas.
Like has been said above, violent games are going to sell well in any country, because it's a rather universally popular subject matter. How exactly is Australia going to achieve any independence from this formula if we are aiming at the same market ourselves?
This next point of mine contains some *dreaded* stereotypes.
Think movies for a second - French movies are extremely distinct from Hollywood movies in their visual style, and their use of cinematic and cinematographic techniques. Spanish movies are (on the whole) totally different again, always some tragic romance involving death. Italian movies are always tragic comedies or those tear-jerker stories that guys love to hate. Hong Kong cinema varies from dodgy soap operas to mob/crime action movies to the straight out martial arts flicks. They have a distinct style of their own again. But Hollywood, well that's hollywood, very simple style, very methodically and structurally composed cinema with big name stars etc etc.
Australian cinema's big difference from american cinema usually was that whole old-school outback image, with real thick ocker accents, and dudes on horses with rifles. Then there's Mad Max I guess, which just had the accents. But the problem is, the only one that warranted a sequel, was the hollywood-ised Mad Max. At least it has the semi-Australian theme of a bit of an outlaw/anti-hero.
So is that our flavour? The nation of outlaw/anti-heroes? Does that make good gaming? God knows...the only reason I can see for this working is that the normal and familiar gameplay actions can be associated with this kind of game but again, it's really just taking a bit of an Aussie theme, putting in some accents and then leaving the rest of the formula up to the USA design again :)
Is this a bad thing? Is the USA style of game bad/wrong? Ask the current flock of gamers at the moment and you'll get a resounding no. Ask me? And I'll say it's a little bit stale having killed millions of bad dudes since 1991 when I was knee high to a grasshopper.
still just an idea.
Snootchie bootchies!
Any off-topic issues send to maitrek@austarmetro.com.au
Err - true, Crocodile Dundee did make two sequels ... dunno why, is anyone willing to make a crocodile dundee game? Or a game based on that steve erwin dude?
Snootchie bootchies!
Any off-topic issues send to maitrek@austarmetro.com.au
I don't think Ty was crap at all. The reviews were mostly favourable, scoring from a 6 - 8 out of ten.. and most of the critiscm it's received has generally been that it was 'too safe' and not innovative in it's gameplay (same thing with Rocket Power Beach Bandits).. If that's the worst that can be said about the game, then they didn't do too bad [;)] I do remember one review where the reviewer said that she adored Steve Irwin, so loved all the accents in Ty.
I think adding Australian culture to every game released by Australian developers is a bit overkill though, and pretty restrictive in creative freedom in the end.
I consider myself a bit of a hardcore gamer and my standards on what makes a good game are extremely high. I don't own a game that has gotten under 9.9 in the majority of nintendo mags. (cause i have a 64) For me a game that score 6 is horrible by my standards. I generally won't even look at anything under 8.5. Then again it depends on who the reviewer is. Although i would play it if someone else had it or something.
But hey thats just me but there are only a few games on each console that would be worth buying it for eg Halo for X-Box, FFX for PS2 and Eternal Darkness for the Cube
It is infact ants who are the true rulers of this world!!!
I think that really, to me, the true Australian games industry is a multicultural one, where any type of game based anywhere can be done, with any kind of international flavour. Whether it's true Australiana doesn't matter, it's about making good games using whatever setting is absolutely best for the game. Imposing Canada-like or French-like restrictions on outside content and how much has to be influenced by Australianisms just doesn't make sense, and it's not true to our stance as a multicultural nation.
If an Australian "flavoured" game kicks arse, then so be it, it'll sell well in any country including America. If it takes arse, then it won't...doesn't matter what gimmicks you put in there.
I think I'd probably have to say that mochumbos "on the surface" evalutation is probably the true measure of the australian games industry. Due to the fact that there is alot of companies starting to produce games that are becoming of higher and higher quality, that the games industry is healthy.
Snootchie bootchies!
Any off-topic issues send to maitrek@austarmetro.com.au
Maitrek, your point is DEAD on!! We SHOULD embrace other cultures (their media, cusine and other talents) so we can foster our multicultral society. And it makes perfect sense to pick the best setting for a particular game.
However every day our media, (not limited to computer games) is becoming increasingly Americanised, which I feel isn't a way to promote a more multicultral nation. Look at it this way, we have thousands of imigrants coming to this nation every year, all of them are very welcome to stay (as long as they play by the rules). Yet only 2% of those thousands come from North America (thats both Canada and U.S.A)
So my question is why should the Americans get to influence our media so heavily? Shouldn't our media only change 2% towards a more American standpoint and 98% towards these other cultures/countries? I suspect the answer most likely lies within the crazy corporation that bears the name "fox" to the yanks which just happens to be owned by Murdoc and News Corp (Thats an Aussie bloke and company just in case you didn't know).
I personally want to make games with Aussie places and Aussie themes, and as a result am an advocate of Australiana. But I would just as easily settle for games (and other media) that is from a much wider range of cultures. The whole point is to make Games developed locally STAND out from the rest!
Too true, lots of game developers do seem to feel the pressure to market their product directly to the American audience, but that's really unavoidable, alot of Aussie game developers are in such a tight squeeze as it is that creative freedom is a bit unlikely.
Speaking of creative freedom lacking in Aussie developers, just look at ratbags last 395,700 racing games. Sure they aren't American marketed, but they've been brand-name associated with dirt racing games, and they'll struggle to release anything other than that.
Unless the Australian industry could stand up on it's own two feet for a change, then there'll always be a lack of creative freedom, especially in terms of marketing content. Although independent game makers have the freedom to make what they want, those who are (sortof) lucky enough to have a contract with a publisher has certain expectation placed upon them that are unavoidable.
Snootchie bootchies!
Any off-topic issues send to maitrek@austarmetro.com.au
Maitrek, that again is exactly the problem! So I point back to my original post with a loose suggestion as to how to solve the problem. That is to have the federal government step in and form either a partially or fully funded organisation similar to the Australian Film Finance Corporation.
I think I need to sit down and write a letter to my member of parliment, pointing out that the game industry is now larger then the film industry and that in order for Australia to earn more export dollars through this new medium and to help broaden our artistic and cultural diversity we need assistance from the government.
I feel the state of the industry is not so much the lack of Australian-themed games but the lack of games full stop. Compared to the U.S. and Japan, Australia lags behind in the number of companies and titles produced per year. Let's just get some content out there.
And since when did bunyips and crocodiles become so symbolic of Australian culture? Australia is a very different place than it was during those "shrimp on the barby" days. Come to think of it, I haven't seen Paul Hogan on TV in years. In my opinion, I think it's time we left that outdated stereotype behind for a more accurate, deserving image of this exciting, culturally-rich country.
quote:Originally posted by Drift
I feel the state of the industry is not so much the lack of Australian-themed games but the lack of games full stop. Compared to the U.S. and Japan, Australia lags behind in the number of companies and titles produced per year. Let's just get some content out there.
We're not doing too bad with the number of game developers over here considering how small our population is.. America - 287 million people, Japan - 127 million.. Australia is like around 20 million... We might even have more game developers per capita than those countries..
That's probably true. But how many games are actually produced each year? How many of these games are actually decent?
And if our population means we cannot match the international market in quantity then we should aim for quality...at least one good game ever few years. Look at the film industry. Comparably, there aren't many Australian films released each year but there are the occasional gems which crack the international market. By contrast, Australian games always seem outdone by their American/Japanese counterparts.
The industry is young and untested; we need to show the international studios what we can do (which is hope is something good).
I take it you've not seen Ty the Tasmanian Tiger then?