Quake 3 Modification Development Team Wanted

Ahh well, I guess that's a no.

And I guess that it must be still a no, its been a while, heh.

I think the reason you are having problems getting interested parties are:

You are requesting a substantial amount of time from those that you want to join 4-6 hours per day is almost a full time job, not many out there are able to or willing to commit to that number of hours, without pay.

You are requesting a large cross section of people ?We need Coders, Artists, Modellers, Skinners, Mappers ? this gives the impression that your current team is virtually non existent, this turns people away, they think they might as well start their own team if they are going to start from scratch anyway.

Lastly, you have given no information about your intended product, what is it about, what kind game / setting / style / mood. People need to be interested to be motivated especially when working for nothing.

If you address these issues, I think you will find that you have more luck getting people

Pantmonger

I work about 8 hours a day on game projects period. If I did not devote myself with such dedication, it would be useless... and I would expect anyone who wants to make it in the game development industry to work just as hard, either on a personal portfolio project, or with a team on a larger maybe commercial project.

And I do not assume to pretend that we already have a team, stating that we already had coders or modellers, and asked for a select few would be a farce, if people want to work, I would assume they would want to work, wether it be payed or unpayed, I usually contribute my efforts to whoever needs it at any particular time.

We do have a team, but it does not include content developers.
The story creators, a coder, a musician, and the PR have already been chosen generally, and if we give out too much information about the intended project, someone will make it elsewhere.

I've been in a situation before where a similar problem occured and it was not minor, somewhere in the world, an unnamed party are obtaining over US $150 per product for something that I created.

Also... I am not really a great part of this team as such, I am just devoting some time to getting an idea off the ground for a friend who is inexperienced in the game development area, but he has an idea which I believe will push the gaming envelope.

hey mister, is this the same guy that i spoke with a while back about AmpII? ...never heard any replies.

We've made a lot of progress so far. Not interested in that project anymore? A basic license is free now. We mainly need a character modeler, code sound and maps are underway.

(w.i.p shots)
[url]http://starwars.web.easynet.be/dungeonrumble/files/screenshots/ctf1_05…]
[url]http://starwars.web.easynet.be/dungeonrumble/files/screenshots/ctf1_06…]

And it costs $2000 to buy a publishing license, not the many hundreds of thousands for Q3.

I don't remember?

We are sorry we cant provide as much information to you guys as we would like to, solely because we believe the aspects of our game have never been seen before in a FPS (single player and multiplayer mode especially).

We hope that after work is underway, and after a certain production phase has been met, we will be setting up a website to promote this exciting new game.

Our game will be highly action packed, and we are pushing the boundaries of player-map-strategic interaction.
Not only will you be awe inspired by the intense action, and gameplay we hope to create, but our concepts for multiplayer provide a significant leap in solo/team co-operation skills in relation to fighting the bad guys, and interacting with map surroundings to further add strategy to gameplay and outwitting the other team/badguys.

At the moment we are looking for Storywriters, 2D artists, and coders.

An engine is still being decided, as we are not sure if current engines can provide what we need.

If you are interested, please email us with sum reference material of work you have done, or a quick summary.

We'll keep you guys updated.

Thanks
Mortal (Dan)
[8)]

Hrm, unfortunately that sounds like every other mod development team's goal and design out there really... :-(

Would you like to enlighten us with sum examples?

Also.. if you had read my post, you'd notice I haven't explained how we are aiming to implement this within the game.

Similar ideas may be questionable, but it means nothing until it is actually done.

I agree with Daemin on this.
Every time I see a mod team make a recruitment post, they seem to give a broad generalisation as to what their project will do, but without providing specific examples regarding what will make it stand out.

quote:Originally posted by Mortal


Our game will be highly action packed, and we are pushing the boundaries of player-map-strategic interaction.
Not only will you be awe inspired by the intense action, and gameplay we hope to create, but our concepts for multiplayer provide a significant leap in solo/team co-operation skills in relation to fighting the bad guys, and interacting with map surroundings to further add strategy to gameplay and outwitting the other team/badguys.

That there doesn't say anything about your project.. You're just using a bunch of big words, spaced out with the occasional catch-phrase.

Really the whole thing comes off as a rather flashy advertisement - that really doesn't explain what you are selling. Pitch that to any publisher, and they'll give you a 'ok, what else do you have'.

I recommend putting a website up, outline what your plans are, and why your mod is going to be special. Provide a few examples as to why your game will be different, and more kickass than anything else that has been done. Post it onto news pages - here for example, polycount is also a good one, and people will be less likely to flog your ideas.

Just on the topic of people flogging idea - its important to realise that most groundbreaking game ideas succeed because of the execution. Example: You play a plumber who jumps over barrels. Wha? What the hell is that? That gives nothing away, but it sure is a starting point. Another example is the eyetoy - you interact with the games by waving your arms about. Sure someone could steal this idea and try to beat you to the punch, but it's all in the execution.

Michael / Dan - You probably don't need to set up a website or try to whip up some hype for your mod, but you DO need to treat the people you are asking for help (and yes, that is what you are doing) with the respect they deserve.

cheers

Where is the disrespect?

Exactly Smeg!...

The other thing is that if you think that your idea is brilliant and unique, then the sad truth is that it probably isn't, and numerous people around the world have had it also.

For example: I was in Sydney sometime in pre-2000, and together with two friends we came up with the idea of a taxi driving game where you are pretty much ffree to do anything to get your passengers from A-B... Then a few years later lo and behold crazy taxi comes out. Now I'm pretty sure I didn't really tell anyone about it, and neither did my friends. So unless there's some creepy mind reading instrument that read that idea from my head (then if such a thing existed there'd be no defence anyway!) it is safe to say that many people around the world come up with the same or similar ideas!

quote:Originally posted by Mister

Where is the disrespect?

I didn't say you were disrespecting anyone.

What i mean is that you should give people something to spark their interest. If they are to commit to your project - buy into your vision - you should share at least some of that vision with them. It's all give and take.

There are no hard and fast rules about this sort of thing, no right and wrong way. Recruit however you see fit. It all comes down to how you handle yourself, how you try to woo the talented individuals who are reading you request.

----

Crazy taxi. Perfect example. That idea must have popped up in 10 or 20 development houses over the last 20 years. Why is there only one crazy taxi? Because it is all in the execution.
How do you make it fun?
How do you make it challenging?
How do you keep drawing the player back for more?
The idea is good, but it usually isn't enough (not unless you have an excellent game designer in your pocket..).

cheers

The disrespect is in your lack of information. You are disrespecting peoples *intelligence* if you expect them to get on board a project that a) They know nothing about, and b) They won't be paid for.
And as has been stated, your "hype" for the game abuses peoples sensibilities. "This game is great!" "What game" "I can't tell you but it's great!" is just going to turn people off.
CYer, Blitz
PS. If some other company is making $150 a pop from something you created, why didn't you sue them, or lay criminal charges for theft?
Or perhaps you never actually DID create it??

I think you all seem to have the wrong idea about what is going on around here, basically what you are all saying is, if you were payed to do the work, you would do it without needing to know the intricate details of the game.

But because its a development team that is starting up, you need to know everything? If you confronted an employer with that attitude, wether they were paying you or not, the fact of the business being in a 100% working state, or you volunteering to help the business attain a 100% working state would not be any issue to be discussed, you would still have a Non Disclosure Agreement, you would still be working to a strict deadline.

The hype is meant for the gamers, the end user, the idiot who pays AUD $100 for our game, not our disgruntled employees who feel they need to know what they are working on, the whole Object Oriented structure of C++ maintains that you can give someone a job that fulfils a specific part of your objectives without actually telling them what the hell its ultimate purpose is.

Our team is ultimately asking for employees, not a bunch of whining mod makers, who have their own dreams of what 'their' game will entail, its a team effort, not a bunch of idiots B-Grading their way to stardom. Flaming people with insolent remarks about what they are trying to accomplish just makes you look foolish, especially when you don't know exactly who you're talking to, I could be anyone. and Dan could be anyone.

The motivation to create a game comes from the individual, like I have expressed before, I work on game development as much as my body will physically allow, and I would expect anyone with this idiology to come work with us, if you have a fulltime job and game design is your hobby, then we're not after you, we're looking for dedicated people. The ones that wake up each morning, have a hundred coffees sit at the computer, and work, work, work, Every day. The best games ever made were not made by people just whacking down some part time work for a game they were hyped up about they were asked to work, they worked, and they made a game that sold.

Yay lets all work 12 hours a day, for free, creating assets without knowing what they'll be used for!!

I'm sorry.. But it's hard to be passionate about creating art without knowing what its for.
I've been wanting to join a good mod for a long time, but have found that 95% of the ideas floating are uninspired and dull, I'm pretty sure anyone with any mod experience will agree with me on this.. Which is why I think you're going to have a fun time recruiting slaves.

But hey, it's pretty clear you aren't willing to listen to any point of view other than your own, so good luck with your mod.

If you're an artist, i'd expect you'd work 12 hours a day creating assets for yourself anyway? So why not create them for a purpose? Guitarists don't practise for half an hour and expect to be decent, they put in at least 4 to 6 hours each day wether they have a job or not, anything less and you're a hobbyist, and like I said, we're not looking for hobbyists.

I listen to everyone, but when people don't listen to me, or read what I say correctly, its just useless. You keep saying Mod. Where'd you get that idea? Creating content for an engine like q3a for in house testing, which will be in the future transfered to an in house engine is not a mod. If anyone wants more information all they had to do was ask, but the extent of the information given will be minimal until a NDA is prepared. Simple. I do not know why half of you cannot understand such a simple common understanding, I guess none of you have actually work seriously in the game industry before, so I am wasting my time here.

I'm sorry but this is the way the game development industry works, When I posted here originally I presumed that everyone here knew that.

Over the past few years I have had the opportunity to work for many mod teams, Stage 5 Software in the UK, Antissa Studios in Melbourne, and during this time I have gained my knowledge from working and communicating directly with some of the Quake III Arena development team, an ex Project Manager from Microforte and the Physics programmer from Krome, and I doubt any one of these people would have the audacity to flame a future employer because he didn't give enough information about the projects that the team were working on. That is just crazy.

The last Job I worked on, was a volunteer project, it was posted here... The $100k US Challenge, I don't have the time to work anymore, because my fiance is pregnant, so now i'm just helping a friend start up his project and giving advice, etc. But you people are making it rediculous. If the manager from Microforte had posted the identical post that I did, this thread would have 150 replies.

Mister - Your comment about working long hours for the fun of it is fair enough. Yes, there are plenty of people out there who are willing to do it for their own hoby or even for a purpose, but telling people that they will never get a job because of it is rather unfair. If people don't want to invest that amount of time, then why are you worried? Would you want them working for you anyway? You have said that this is not a mod and is an actual project that you are looking at getting off the ground. It is fair to assume that people would want to be paid for something that is meant to be a little more professional.

The pay/time issue, doesn't bother me, what does is the lack of details. I don't really want to hear all the intricate details, but it would be nice to hear a few more details. The main thing is that you are very general about the people you wish to apply for the job.

You (and Dan) state that you are after 2D artists. What kind of 2D artists? Are you after conceptual artists? Are you past concepting and require texture artists? Do you even need GUI artists, who have more experience with design than art? IF you are after concept artists, then what do you need them to be able to illustrate? Characters? Mechanical designs (Vehicles, Weapons, etc.)? Sets and props? Are you after everything?

What Style, Timeline and feeling are you after? I though that you would have placed that in there to save yourselves. Are you after gritty, techno-industrial characters? or more realistic military based? This would help you out so that you wouldn't have to look at 40 portfolios with cute cartoon characters, when you are after something slightly more realistic.

Yes it would be great to have artists that can do all of those things, but there are very few of those. Hands up if you want to have the skills of Feng Zhu? I literally have both of mine up in the air. Artists like that are not only very difficult to come across in real life, but they are even more difficult to find free. Most Artists that have that level of skill would have a nice job, and even their own line of tutorial DVDs :)

You seemed to get very upset when this was assumed to just be a mod. Perhaps you should re-read your original posts. They are written just like a mod. Mainly because you are very loose with the help you are after. If you were a little more professional with this project, you would have better placement positions written up. Perhaps you should have a look at the Employment section here at Sumea to see how they are written up. The title of this thread also helps the confusion that this is just a mod "Quake 3 Modification Development Team Wanted"

You also made a personal attack on all the people who have posted here by saying that they don't have an idea how the Games Industry works. To the best of my knowledge, over half the people who have posted currently have jobs. If you have worked in the Gaming industry as much as you have said, then you would have a better idea of how a company should be run.

The last one. About Microforte offering jobs without pay. I can sure as hell assure you that you couldn't be more wrong about that. When I finished my course with Maya, John De Margheriti approached the class with a project. It was three years, full-time, without pay. You could have heard a pin drop.

Sorry for the long post.

EDIT: I should add that, no. I don't work in the Gaming Industry, nor have I. You can ignore this post as much as you would like because of that.

I find that your attitude is incredibly conceited, you are preaching to us about how the industry works

quote:I'm sorry but this is the way the game development industry works

And making claims like

quote:I guess none of you have actually work seriously in the game industry before, so I am wasting my time here

does not improve your standing.

A fair few of the people who post on this forum are in the industry, myself included. I know what is expected of me in a paid environment and that is the fundamental difference here. In a paid environment you work to someone else?s vision, that is one of the reasons why you are paid. But you want people to do this for you, for nothing. Why would people want to dedicate time to your product rather then their own? with no information about the product, and with your obvious attitude problems when it come to critique.

My first post in this thread outlined the problems you would have getting people, due to the lack of information you posted. You chose to dismiss the advice I offered you then prophecy like the problems arose. I think your chances of receiving further help from most on this forum are now incredibly low. I suggest that if you are serious about getting together a team for making a game you do some serious work on your interpersonal skills lest all your ?employees? vacate in short order.

Oh and one last thing

quote:You keep saying Mod. Where'd you get that idea?

Um thread title ?Quake 3 Modification Development Team Wanted?

Pantmonger

Firstly; chill.

"You keep saying Mod. Where'd you get that idea?"

This thread under "Mod / Game collaborations, and game technology" and the topic is "Quake 3 Modification Development Team Wanted". I'd say this is a fair assumption. If this in NOT a mod, explain or reiterate exactly what this project is. After all, you do not want people commiting and realising they have bit off more than they can chew.

"if you were payed to do the work, you would do it without needing to know the intricate details of the game. But because its a development team that is starting up, you need to know everything?"

People only want to know something. And yes, plenty of people work on games without knowing the full extent of the project. I'm not saying people work on games without knowing squat, but there are certainly companies who are incredibly strict on their Need-to-know policies.

"The hype is meant for the gamers"

I agree entirely. When it comes to recruiting, leave out the hype.
And as for you comment regarding the end user who forks out $100 for the product, i suggest you edit that post. Comments like that only reflect poorly on you.

"I'm sorry but this is the way the game development industry works, When I posted here originally I presumed that everyone here knew that."

To an extent, this is true. If you go for a job interview with a developer, you will probably learn nothing of the project they are working on. This is not the case with most MOD teams however; they usually try to enlist likeminded individuals to create something they will all enjoy ("hey, lets make counter-strike, BUT MEDIEVAL!"). The mod's i've been involved with were either right up my alley, or sounded fascinating.

Michael. You can either take peoples' advice or ignore it. In the end it's your choice. You also have the choice to reply to constructive criticism with rants. If you would like us (Bob, blitz, daemin and myself) to back down and let you promote you Mod however you see fit, we will (right guys?). But don't be surprised if you get similar responses from others.

Peace.

By the way, when you have people working for you, for no pay, out of the goodness of their heart (well, it can't be because they like the project if they don't know anything about it!), then you should be over the moon that they would be willing to help. Your attitude is more that, for some reason, you have some god given right that people should work for you for nothing, and if they're unwilling, then they aren't worthwhile human beings.
CYer, Blitz
PS. I hope you're not the PR guy, because we're the public, and relations so far are very bad :)

Why dont you at least give us a BASIC rundown of the story/setting/themes etc, you can do that without giving away any gameplay details. I understand you dont want to have people flogging your idea's, but a vague description isnt going to entice anyone, at least try to sell your self a bit.