Has anyone read the Paul steed books, "Modelling a character in 3Ds Max" and there's another one about animating. I'm thinking of getting it but can someone tell me if they are any good.
I wouldn't recommend them, personally think they're very poor, but hey, you may get something out of them.
Edit: Just wanted to add, I don't want to dismiss it altogethor, it introduces the beginner to quite a few techniques and methods, and does explain why things are happening as they do; having said that, my main problem with it is with it's target audience skill level and the material it gives; yes although it's a good starting point for the beginner, it also introduces a lot of "do it my way or no way" type of bad practices. For the skill level it's aimed at, which is modelling foundations and practices, I've seen it have a bad effect on people who get molded to it and find it very hard to break out of. I'm a firm believer of learning to crawl before you walk. Kind of feeds into the "lets do a chick with huge tits and an attitude to learn the basics" way of thinking, which is similar to the "lets animate a huge army battle scene to learn animation basics" [;)]
I'm not as good a modeller as JI over there, but I found it quite useful. I've sort of alway struggled to find my way around interfaces until I 'find my own way' of doing things, and there's lots of pictures in the 'Modelling for 3dsMax' book so it's hard to get lost. Also, I find that Paul Steed often explains 'why' things are done the way they are. To me, this is just as important as 'how'. I hate not knowing why something is the way it is.
It's a book for the beginner (I think) or at least, those who don't make lots of models all the time. I really gained a lot from it but it's written for Max3.1, I think.
Paul Steed is a very talented man who just has an ego that is just way over the top. I have never read his books, but I used to be a big fan of his 'Thinking Outside The Box' segment he used to have on Loonigames ages ago. He could make some really good characters using less than 1000 polys, but anything over that and they just started to suck badly. As Joel has mentioned, Steed has a great habbit of saying that you should do something his way just because he does it that way. Quite a few times it is because it is the best way to do things, but then there are times where there are better ways of doing it, but he just refuses to do it.
Steed is also responsible for half the amature modelling population always making big boobed/booted babes with guns.
As Joel also mentioned, you should probably learn to do more basic things before you jump into making a Steed like character. I can honestly talk from experience there. As I said, I started out be reading the old Steed articles and trying to learn that way. I really wish that I didn't do that. Although I learnt a lot, I also learnt a lot of bad habbits, that three years later I am still trying to break away from.
If you want to buy them, it is up to you. Just remember to use them as reference books. Nothing more. Don't treat it as a bible like so many others do. Find your style.
[EDIT] I should actually write in why I personally didn't like learning from Steed (figuratively speaking of course). I had been using Max for a few months (maybe six at the most), when I heard of Paul Steed and his work. Read through his site quite a few times and then tried it myself. I ended up really pissed off, as I was some young guy that had been using the app for a few months and wanted to be at the level of Paul Steed. So much, that my models just ended up looking like his... Just not as good.
The other problem with Steed is that he never used to give a shit about edge loops (correct me if his book is different). This means that his meshes are fairly messy. This style of modelling really bit me hard when I started learning high poly SubD modelling. Thankfully, I have had to drop a lot of those bad habbits to make my models the best they can be. I am still trying though :)[/EDIT]
I haven't actually read this book, but learned the techniques through other people.
Was it useful.. Yes. But I think to get the most out of the ideas outlined in the book, it's essential to have a solid understanding of character modelling before you open to page 1.
Why? Someone with a decent understanding of max and modelling techniques can remain objective to the ideas in the book, taking the good, and leaving the bad behind. Whereas a beginner will suffer from the problems outlined by Aven/Ji.
In my opinion.. Someone who wants to learn to model would be better off picking up an anatomy book, and then learn the tools on their own. It may sound harder - with no one holding your hand through the process.. But it's starting at the bottom, rather than the midpoint. I know everyone wants to model super cool-mega-awesome things, but it is better to take baby steps first.
Would I recommend them. The techniques shown in the book helped me get past a fairly big rut in my artwork. But I was modelling fairly confidently at that stage. Just wasn't improving as quickly as I could have been :) After learning the new 'tricks' my confidence shot forward.
My answer... Get a mate to buy it, then get him to show you 'some tricks' :D
quote:Originally posted by Aven
Steed is also responsible for half the amature modelling population always making big boobed/booted babes with guns.
You cant blame him for rampant hormones and lack of imagination on the part of said artists.
I hate the big boots syndrome too. It's almost gotten to the atage where the shoes and shoulders are the first things I look at in a character.
Hehe, damn Aven... I should pay you an agents fee and keep getting you to post - means I don't have to! [:D] Couldn't of said it all any better [:)]
Bullet21: I actually walked out of his private talk, and I skipped his presentation at AGDC - I don't have any problems with him; he is who he is, and I respect that. Just I hold no real interest in the things he has to talk about and does, and I really don't agree with a lot of of his opinions (and yes, he has a lot of them). He's just another guy out there. Like I said, I like certain aspects of his books and work, but dislike and disagree with others. Nothing personal against the guy [:)]
i learnt something, that dude who had played midi mazed was nuts... crazy bearded men are allways around at any convention :P
that and theres some cosmic force that seems to be protecting every computer and miscelanious hardware from getting hit in the expo room from various projectiles and sponsored objects, or did i just miss the mayhem :P
quote:Originally posted by bullet21
and it would seem that the writers of Atomic love him as well.
Have you ever met the editor (or who ever the head guys is) of Atomic?
Errrr.... I did. And Joel, too.
He (and many other males) would love Paul Steeds work. Big breasts and moon boots.
Just a note - we had a small talk at school yesterday with all the females and most of them want to get into film mainly because the games industry offends them with work just like that.
quote:Originally posted by Jacana
Just a note - we had a small talk at school yesterday with all the females and most of them want to get into film mainly because the games industry offends them with work just like that.
Hey, computer nerds are allowed to dream aren't they?... most realise they'll never get within spitting distance of their ideal woman, so why not create her the only way they know how [:p]
I have a copy, and it did amazing things for me. I sure Sorceror Bob (matt) can confirm this. I did my first year at the AIE, and over the chiasmas brake I read the book and modelled a character with the help of it, The character was about 300% better then any I have done before.
The book is now a little old, but the base information in it will always be true and wroth knowing.
I can't really put it into word what this book done for me. But the bottom line is that I learnt more from that one book then my entire time at the AIE. The AIE showed me Max, Paul Steed showed me how to model.
The animation book I would like to get, but I have not seen it.
quote:Originally posted by Makk
I have it. Didnt really like it how it teaches a basic foundation on one method, then goes onto another method for the next chapter. Would have preffered if it used the one method for the entire book.
Jack of all trades, master of none.It is well written and easy to follow though
I don't believe in what you have just said here. The best thing about the book is that there are about 40 different modelling methods. Different people think in different ways and showing all these methods give people the chace to see what work for them. Which I think is the one thing that keep people improving (well me and everyone I have talked about it) is trying new methods to do something, then using what works for them.
quote:Originally posted by Aven
Just remember to use them as reference books. Nothing more. Don't treat it as a bible like so many others do. Find your style.
This should be the rule to all modelling books and tutorials. And a point I make very clear in both my writen tutroial and the DVD one I'm doing for some weekend work.
Here are the Amazon links.
Modelling a character
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1556228155/qid=1077167764…
Animation
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1584502703/qid=1077167764…
Amazon are really good, and their packaging is top notch. I was after some books, but found that book store copies had been thumbed to death. Amazon's came in perfect condition. It is also waiting and doing one large order as it can save you quite a bit on postage.
If you are uneasy with online shopping (which is fair enough), then just write down the BSB number for each book and any book store should be able to order it in for you. If main stream book stores have difficulties getting them in, then try Uni book stores (the ones in Canberra are called 'The Co-Op Book Store', I'm not sure if other states have the same ones). Uni Book stores generally get in a better range of reference books as their customers are nearly all students :)
Just a note about Amazon -
As the Aust $ is quite good right now you may be better off looking at amazon.ca That is their Canadian site and right now the Aust $ is just a few cents off the Cdn $. The reason to note that is because the price will translate across to about the exact same.
If you would rather buy within Australia take a look at www.bookware.com.au they have shops in Canberra and Sydney (thanks redwyre for putting me on to these guys) and for local sales their prices are good and love the delivery :) A few of the books I wanted were at their Canberra store so they just used courier instead of post.
One last warning about ordering over-seas. Because of the base cost for the shipping as well as the price per an item you may be better off waiting till you order a few items at once. And beware on Amazon. Their cheapest delivery price can take up to 12 weeks to arrive. That is being shipped by boat!
Ah. Cool link Chezza. Thanks.
If you are ordering from over-seas, and you go sea mail, then you really are just being cheap :p There was a time when air mail was insanely expensive, but those days are really dying quickly. It's just a pain in the arse that news agencies still get their international mags by sea mail. Damn waiting three months for a 'new' magazine :/
I ordered, and got the book today, around 30 dollars for it, another 30 dollars for postage, shipping, and delivery, so all upm 60 dollars. Anyways, i have 3D Studio Max 2.5, but the book is for version 4 or 5, but i find it practicly the same as in the book to the version i have. Anyways, i have started a bit, first time using 3D Studio Max, so i will post my progress as i go, dont get knocked out by the poor quality, so yeah.
My bro orded it ordered it from www.amazon.com, got it with credit card, i also got the fastest delivery, so maby the shpping costs where so high.
I havent read them my self but from what I hear they are pretty good