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Your opinion on nextgen technology?

Submitted by WiffleCube on
Forum

With the greater realism afforded by new graphics cards
there is more opportunity for creativity but at the same
time greater quality work expected, possibly on similar
hours and pay. Will you be expected to dig a bigger hole
with the same size shovel?

Your thoughts please.

Submitted by Malus on Tue, 30/11/04 - 1:29 AMPermalink

yes. [:P]

Too be honset no one really knows what its going to be like just yet, we'll have to wait til a few games get released I'd say.

Submitted by cutty on Tue, 30/11/04 - 1:40 AMPermalink

I'd say we've seen some pretty good examples already ..eg. Doom 3 and Unreal 2.
They were amazing graphically/production values wise, but in terms of actual gameplay and the overall experience games 4-5 years older still have em beat (and by quite a margin IMO). Seems like so much was invested in the look and graphics that the gameplay side was underdone.
I do think sooner or later a company will nail all aspects of art/design/gameplay with a next gen engine though (i've yet to play HL2 incidentally, though the first was too linear for my tastes to be best game evar material and i suspect i'll feel that way about the sequel too).
I do think we're doomed to suffer quite a few more beautiful turds in the future.

Submitted by souri on Fri, 10/12/04 - 3:17 PMPermalink

quote:[i]Will you be expected to dig a bigger hole
with the same size shovel?

I disagree, only because I think the analogy is a bit incorrect. I would say a bigger hole will be dug, but with a more advanced and larger shovel. I think there is definately more work involved for next gen, but not a multitude greater than it already takes.

I think polygon editing/sub division tools are becoming more sophisticated to encourage faster ways of getting the general shape of those high polygon models done, and tools like Zbrush cap things off by allowing you to paint on the high details with ease. I think the real challenge for artists, however, is with texturing.

All the new tech is gearing towards normal mapping and other texture layers like specular etc so there's no need for artists to paint a textured flat like usual. All this is pointing towards computer generated textures, so the challenge is to get things looking less procedural or computer generated. I mean, for artists to be given a large texture sheet (say over 1024 x 1024) and to add detail (like bumpmapping) to it, it's quite tempting do it quickly with filters... just don't make it so painfully obvious that you did. Subtlety is the key. [;)]

I'd hate next gen artwork to be paralleling the early days of computer CG. You know, quick fix procedural textures that don't look natural/right, bump maps for the sake of bump maps, shiny chrome, all the bells and whistles of CG tech on every damn object. Or for a better example, look at any episode of [url="http://www.optimusprimal.hpg.ig.com.br/ratrap_dinobot.jpg"]Transformers: Beast Wars[/url]. [:D]

Submitted by Malus on Mon, 13/12/04 - 12:50 PMPermalink

Actually Souri its probably going to be more like:

"We need a bigger hole, drop that shovel, use this new electric shovel, oh and btw you don't get any extra time to learn how to use it, oh and yes the hole needs to be done quicker than before, what are you complaining about? The shovel is electric?!" [:P]

Texturing isn't really that hard for next gen but there is alot of bad stuff out there already, check EQ2, way too much bad normal mapping! and Flat shaded diffuse maps!! Argh they look like poser models!!

I actually think modelling is the hardest thing for those attempting next gen, no more lame excuses like "oh its the low polycounts", that stuff is always used to hide a shoddy understanding of anatomy and the deformation needs for animation, oh and it'll finally put to rest the wierd belief that polyflow isn't important, try modelling a 10K character correctly and efficiently without it. [:)]

I'm looking forward to this next cycle of games, the timeframe, cashflow and level of committment for a company to make a next gen title 'should' stop a 'few' dodgy games being made at least.

Forum

With the greater realism afforded by new graphics cards
there is more opportunity for creativity but at the same
time greater quality work expected, possibly on similar
hours and pay. Will you be expected to dig a bigger hole
with the same size shovel?

Your thoughts please.


Submitted by Malus on Tue, 30/11/04 - 1:29 AMPermalink

yes. [:P]

Too be honset no one really knows what its going to be like just yet, we'll have to wait til a few games get released I'd say.

Submitted by cutty on Tue, 30/11/04 - 1:40 AMPermalink

I'd say we've seen some pretty good examples already ..eg. Doom 3 and Unreal 2.
They were amazing graphically/production values wise, but in terms of actual gameplay and the overall experience games 4-5 years older still have em beat (and by quite a margin IMO). Seems like so much was invested in the look and graphics that the gameplay side was underdone.
I do think sooner or later a company will nail all aspects of art/design/gameplay with a next gen engine though (i've yet to play HL2 incidentally, though the first was too linear for my tastes to be best game evar material and i suspect i'll feel that way about the sequel too).
I do think we're doomed to suffer quite a few more beautiful turds in the future.

Submitted by souri on Fri, 10/12/04 - 3:17 PMPermalink

quote:[i]Will you be expected to dig a bigger hole
with the same size shovel?

I disagree, only because I think the analogy is a bit incorrect. I would say a bigger hole will be dug, but with a more advanced and larger shovel. I think there is definately more work involved for next gen, but not a multitude greater than it already takes.

I think polygon editing/sub division tools are becoming more sophisticated to encourage faster ways of getting the general shape of those high polygon models done, and tools like Zbrush cap things off by allowing you to paint on the high details with ease. I think the real challenge for artists, however, is with texturing.

All the new tech is gearing towards normal mapping and other texture layers like specular etc so there's no need for artists to paint a textured flat like usual. All this is pointing towards computer generated textures, so the challenge is to get things looking less procedural or computer generated. I mean, for artists to be given a large texture sheet (say over 1024 x 1024) and to add detail (like bumpmapping) to it, it's quite tempting do it quickly with filters... just don't make it so painfully obvious that you did. Subtlety is the key. [;)]

I'd hate next gen artwork to be paralleling the early days of computer CG. You know, quick fix procedural textures that don't look natural/right, bump maps for the sake of bump maps, shiny chrome, all the bells and whistles of CG tech on every damn object. Or for a better example, look at any episode of [url="http://www.optimusprimal.hpg.ig.com.br/ratrap_dinobot.jpg"]Transformers: Beast Wars[/url]. [:D]

Submitted by Malus on Mon, 13/12/04 - 12:50 PMPermalink

Actually Souri its probably going to be more like:

"We need a bigger hole, drop that shovel, use this new electric shovel, oh and btw you don't get any extra time to learn how to use it, oh and yes the hole needs to be done quicker than before, what are you complaining about? The shovel is electric?!" [:P]

Texturing isn't really that hard for next gen but there is alot of bad stuff out there already, check EQ2, way too much bad normal mapping! and Flat shaded diffuse maps!! Argh they look like poser models!!

I actually think modelling is the hardest thing for those attempting next gen, no more lame excuses like "oh its the low polycounts", that stuff is always used to hide a shoddy understanding of anatomy and the deformation needs for animation, oh and it'll finally put to rest the wierd belief that polyflow isn't important, try modelling a 10K character correctly and efficiently without it. [:)]

I'm looking forward to this next cycle of games, the timeframe, cashflow and level of committment for a company to make a next gen title 'should' stop a 'few' dodgy games being made at least.