Tablet owners, is yours really that effective?

Submitted by MoonUnit on
Forum
Artists

i was given a tablet for my birthday and when i try to use it, i draw like a 2 year old on depressants. Ive been drawing by hand for yonks, and likewise with mouse, but i simply cant acheive anything near what i get with a pen and paper.

Did anyone else find this when they first started? am i approaching this the wrong way?

Submitted by Pantmonger on Wed, 03/12/03 - 7:32 PMPermalink

Some people can have problems drawing with a tablet, I know I?m one of them, I just use it for adding colour and textures all line work I still use paper for.

It can depend on tablet size, the larger the tablet the easier line art is because there is less scale distortion. Also the slick surface throws some artists, so try placing a piece of paper on the tablet o give you ?pen? some bite.

Pantmonger

Submitted by J I Styles on Wed, 03/12/03 - 8:00 PMPermalink

well, first of all realise you're getting into a completely different medium - the same learning processes in getting comfortable with this medium applies as if you where going from, say, pencil to oils.

A lot of more traditional based artists want larger tablets so they feel more comfortable since it's the difference for them with a larger canvas, between drawing with the wrist, and drawing from the shoulder. This on top of many other factors like surface friction, stylus holds, pressure ranges, scale, accuracy precision etc all have to get used to.

Take the time to get used to this new medium as you would with any other, and you'll get where you want to be in no time.

Submitted by MoonUnit on Wed, 03/12/03 - 10:43 PMPermalink

well i dont have money coming out my ears so my tablet is fairly damn small, i suppose that might have something to do with it...

just keep drawing ey

Submitted by Aven on Thu, 04/12/03 - 3:51 AMPermalink

My biggest problem with the Wacom and drawing is the friction factor. I have always drawn on heavier grade paper, and the lack of friction on a Wacom is very difficult for me to get used to. I am going to buy some comic pages though, as the paper is smoother and that means that the ink from my pen wont bleed as much. Cleaner lines :D I haven't really tried too much to use the tablet for straight drawing though. I should probably start.

Off topic, but how have you been Pant? Haven't seen you one here in a while. How is married life?

Submitted by Malus on Thu, 04/12/03 - 6:14 AMPermalink

Moonunit: I have a 10 x 10 tablet at home and a teeny weeny one at work, the larger ones allow much broader strokes from you elbow instead of from your wrist, alot easier to draw on the biggies.

I've never had a problem drawing on them freehand, generally I hold my home one on my lap as I would an art pad and sketch away.

JI: drawing from the shoulder?! How the?! [:P]

Aven: you can buy wacom pens that have ink nibs, place paper on top of your tablet and away you go!!

Submitted by J I Styles on Thu, 04/12/03 - 6:50 AMPermalink

quote:Originally posted by Malus


JI: drawing from the shoulder?! How the?! [:P]

Getting a little off topic to begin with but...

When you say "the larger ones allow much broader strokes from you elbow", it's actually coming from your shoulder - it's a ball-and-socket joint, as opposed to the elbow only being a hinge joint. eg, the shoulder enables you to bend, twist, raise, and move everything below it (this is your forwards kinematics theory in practice right here! [;)] ).

MoonUnit: My answer to your original question, "Tablet owners, is yours really that effective?", is a resounding "Hell yes!" [:)]

I've pretty much made a full transition to digital medium - nowadays, all I use traditional stuff for is doodling on the run, or to communicate an idea in a quick more comfortable way to someone sitting next to, or over you. Everything I show, all the stuff on my site, is all digital medium.

Submitted by Aven on Thu, 04/12/03 - 8:33 AMPermalink

Malus: Yeah I have seen them nibs/pens, and I remain a little dubious towards their effectiveness. I do have to get used to using smoother paper, so that should help a lot. I do still like to draw with pencils and pens as it just a 'feel' that can't be created so easily with digital media. Granted, I haven't used Painter that much either (i'm upgrading to full Painter 8 soon).

Plus, drawing with a Faber Castel Porschedesign Fountain Pen is absolute heaven :D

But to also keep on topic, yeah a tablet makes a lot of difference. More for the fact that I don't have the wrists of an 80yr old woman anymore :) bye bye RSI.

Submitted by Malus on Thu, 04/12/03 - 9:02 PMPermalink

Off Topic: sorry Aven.

JI: I see what you mean, you know I never actually noticed the movement in the shoulder, wierd 25+ years of drawing and only notice it now lol.

What I was referring to however is how you pivot when you draw, either from your elbow stationary on the ground or your wrist. I tend to draw with my elbow resting on a stable surface and pivot from that as opposed to resting my forearm on a surface and pivoting from my wrist. [:)]

Do you draw with your whole arm floating? Doesn't that get tiring? Actually curious btw, not being a smart arse. [:)]

Aven: You would have loved the pens I saw at the porsche sales centre in Lucerne Switzerland (think it was there) $30,000 titanium fountain pens with diamond grips and shit!!

Submitted by J I Styles on Thu, 04/12/03 - 9:46 PMPermalink

ok, a little off-topic reply to malus, and also a bit of a tangent - sorry! [;)]

malus: Well first, about the floating arm question, I'll answer that before I get on to how I work; think about vertical canvas painting - you're standing or sitting with your arm out-stretched floating and painting freeform - yup, that can be tiring if you're not used to it, but you'll develop a comfortable zone with that in time.

For me personally, I've actually gone against so many years of drawing and all the art teachers in the world and draw from the wrist myself - I have a small tablet both at home and work (with high accuracy dpi), which is what I really prefer. For me it's a matter of speed and comfort. I can sweep a smooth arcing line over the entirety of my canvas in just one flick of the wrist, as opposed to moving my whole arm - over time I've learnt to work like this and refine my strokes to a minimum so I'm not "scratching" over the one area constantly but get it done first time (which is one of the big reasons your art teacher will get anal about you drawing from the wrist [;)] ). This is all just personal preferance, but it's how I've found my comfortable zone, which I think is very important for an artist, so you can concentrate on just doing the art, instead of how you'll go about the process of doing it.

Submitted by Malus on Fri, 05/12/03 - 1:25 AMPermalink

I don't think there should be a strict school of how to hold you arm when you draw, wrist, elbow, shoulder its what suits you that matters.

As for vertical canvas painting, I've got me a leaning stick so as to keep away from having my arm floating. Lazy bugger. [:P]

Submitted by Aven on Fri, 05/12/03 - 1:47 AMPermalink

quote:Originally posted by Malus

Off Topic: sorry Aven.

[?] Er... Did I miss something? What are you sorry about? You didn't say anything wrong. Did you?

Here is a photo that I just took of my two fountain pens. The one at the back is my Rotring 600 Fountain pen with an Extra Fine nib. I have had it since year 11 and it only cost me 1/3 of what it was worth :D The one at the front is the Faber Castel Porsche one. It has a Fine nib (I REALLY wish Faber Castel would make a EF nib), my parents bought it for me as my 21st pressie this year. The best thing about the Faber Castel nib is that it is Gold with Rhodium plating. Silky smooth to use. A page about Rhodium: http://www.scescape.net/~woods/elements/rhodium.html

[img]http://home.netspeed.com.au/mlanham/DSCN0111.jpg[/img]

Sorry for the qual of the pic. I don't have a tripod yet, so I have to use a flash :/

As for styles of drawing. I use A3 paper so I do tend to use my elbow/shoulder a bit more. My tech drawing teacher in high school taught us to draw straight lines that way. I do use my wrist and fingers the majority of the time though. I also hold my pencils/pens really weirdly. I choke the crap out of the nib. No holding it further back like I was taught :p

My Wacom technique is very similar. Wrist for small details, arm for long strokes or movements.

I just bought a new art pad as well with smoother pages, so I should start to get a bit more used to frictionless drawing (with any luck) :)

Submitted by ironikart on Fri, 05/12/03 - 7:50 PMPermalink

I just got a tablet as an early christmas present and I can't wait to use it in texturing... no more hand cramps!

From the couple of scribbles I've done so far I think having a tablet is going to greatly increase the quality of my textures and also the speed at which I can produce them.

Go tablets!

Submitted by MoonUnit on Fri, 05/12/03 - 10:16 PMPermalink

damn you ironikart and your ability to actually use them :P

(btw itonik incase you havent figured i found the pen :P )

Submitted by souri on Sat, 06/12/03 - 12:02 AMPermalink

quote:Originally posted by MoonUnit

i was given a tablet for my birthday and when i try to use it, i draw like a 2 year old on depressants. Ive been drawing by hand for yonks, and likewise with mouse, but i simply cant acheive anything near what i get with a pen and paper.

Did anyone else find this when they first started? am i approaching this the wrong way?

It definately takes some getting used to and a lot of practise before it becomes second nature, I'm sure. I wish I had one years ago. If any of you younger high-school student types want to get into concept art/texturing, get a graphics tablet NOW! They're affordable, and you'll develope those graphics tablet wielding skills earlier...

Posted by MoonUnit on
Forum
Artists

i was given a tablet for my birthday and when i try to use it, i draw like a 2 year old on depressants. Ive been drawing by hand for yonks, and likewise with mouse, but i simply cant acheive anything near what i get with a pen and paper.

Did anyone else find this when they first started? am i approaching this the wrong way?

Submitted by Pantmonger on Wed, 03/12/03 - 7:32 PMPermalink

Some people can have problems drawing with a tablet, I know I?m one of them, I just use it for adding colour and textures all line work I still use paper for.

It can depend on tablet size, the larger the tablet the easier line art is because there is less scale distortion. Also the slick surface throws some artists, so try placing a piece of paper on the tablet o give you ?pen? some bite.

Pantmonger

Submitted by J I Styles on Wed, 03/12/03 - 8:00 PMPermalink

well, first of all realise you're getting into a completely different medium - the same learning processes in getting comfortable with this medium applies as if you where going from, say, pencil to oils.

A lot of more traditional based artists want larger tablets so they feel more comfortable since it's the difference for them with a larger canvas, between drawing with the wrist, and drawing from the shoulder. This on top of many other factors like surface friction, stylus holds, pressure ranges, scale, accuracy precision etc all have to get used to.

Take the time to get used to this new medium as you would with any other, and you'll get where you want to be in no time.

Submitted by MoonUnit on Wed, 03/12/03 - 10:43 PMPermalink

well i dont have money coming out my ears so my tablet is fairly damn small, i suppose that might have something to do with it...

just keep drawing ey

Submitted by Aven on Thu, 04/12/03 - 3:51 AMPermalink

My biggest problem with the Wacom and drawing is the friction factor. I have always drawn on heavier grade paper, and the lack of friction on a Wacom is very difficult for me to get used to. I am going to buy some comic pages though, as the paper is smoother and that means that the ink from my pen wont bleed as much. Cleaner lines :D I haven't really tried too much to use the tablet for straight drawing though. I should probably start.

Off topic, but how have you been Pant? Haven't seen you one here in a while. How is married life?

Submitted by Malus on Thu, 04/12/03 - 6:14 AMPermalink

Moonunit: I have a 10 x 10 tablet at home and a teeny weeny one at work, the larger ones allow much broader strokes from you elbow instead of from your wrist, alot easier to draw on the biggies.

I've never had a problem drawing on them freehand, generally I hold my home one on my lap as I would an art pad and sketch away.

JI: drawing from the shoulder?! How the?! [:P]

Aven: you can buy wacom pens that have ink nibs, place paper on top of your tablet and away you go!!

Submitted by J I Styles on Thu, 04/12/03 - 6:50 AMPermalink

quote:Originally posted by Malus


JI: drawing from the shoulder?! How the?! [:P]

Getting a little off topic to begin with but...

When you say "the larger ones allow much broader strokes from you elbow", it's actually coming from your shoulder - it's a ball-and-socket joint, as opposed to the elbow only being a hinge joint. eg, the shoulder enables you to bend, twist, raise, and move everything below it (this is your forwards kinematics theory in practice right here! [;)] ).

MoonUnit: My answer to your original question, "Tablet owners, is yours really that effective?", is a resounding "Hell yes!" [:)]

I've pretty much made a full transition to digital medium - nowadays, all I use traditional stuff for is doodling on the run, or to communicate an idea in a quick more comfortable way to someone sitting next to, or over you. Everything I show, all the stuff on my site, is all digital medium.

Submitted by Aven on Thu, 04/12/03 - 8:33 AMPermalink

Malus: Yeah I have seen them nibs/pens, and I remain a little dubious towards their effectiveness. I do have to get used to using smoother paper, so that should help a lot. I do still like to draw with pencils and pens as it just a 'feel' that can't be created so easily with digital media. Granted, I haven't used Painter that much either (i'm upgrading to full Painter 8 soon).

Plus, drawing with a Faber Castel Porschedesign Fountain Pen is absolute heaven :D

But to also keep on topic, yeah a tablet makes a lot of difference. More for the fact that I don't have the wrists of an 80yr old woman anymore :) bye bye RSI.

Submitted by Malus on Thu, 04/12/03 - 9:02 PMPermalink

Off Topic: sorry Aven.

JI: I see what you mean, you know I never actually noticed the movement in the shoulder, wierd 25+ years of drawing and only notice it now lol.

What I was referring to however is how you pivot when you draw, either from your elbow stationary on the ground or your wrist. I tend to draw with my elbow resting on a stable surface and pivot from that as opposed to resting my forearm on a surface and pivoting from my wrist. [:)]

Do you draw with your whole arm floating? Doesn't that get tiring? Actually curious btw, not being a smart arse. [:)]

Aven: You would have loved the pens I saw at the porsche sales centre in Lucerne Switzerland (think it was there) $30,000 titanium fountain pens with diamond grips and shit!!

Submitted by J I Styles on Thu, 04/12/03 - 9:46 PMPermalink

ok, a little off-topic reply to malus, and also a bit of a tangent - sorry! [;)]

malus: Well first, about the floating arm question, I'll answer that before I get on to how I work; think about vertical canvas painting - you're standing or sitting with your arm out-stretched floating and painting freeform - yup, that can be tiring if you're not used to it, but you'll develop a comfortable zone with that in time.

For me personally, I've actually gone against so many years of drawing and all the art teachers in the world and draw from the wrist myself - I have a small tablet both at home and work (with high accuracy dpi), which is what I really prefer. For me it's a matter of speed and comfort. I can sweep a smooth arcing line over the entirety of my canvas in just one flick of the wrist, as opposed to moving my whole arm - over time I've learnt to work like this and refine my strokes to a minimum so I'm not "scratching" over the one area constantly but get it done first time (which is one of the big reasons your art teacher will get anal about you drawing from the wrist [;)] ). This is all just personal preferance, but it's how I've found my comfortable zone, which I think is very important for an artist, so you can concentrate on just doing the art, instead of how you'll go about the process of doing it.

Submitted by Malus on Fri, 05/12/03 - 1:25 AMPermalink

I don't think there should be a strict school of how to hold you arm when you draw, wrist, elbow, shoulder its what suits you that matters.

As for vertical canvas painting, I've got me a leaning stick so as to keep away from having my arm floating. Lazy bugger. [:P]

Submitted by Aven on Fri, 05/12/03 - 1:47 AMPermalink

quote:Originally posted by Malus

Off Topic: sorry Aven.

[?] Er... Did I miss something? What are you sorry about? You didn't say anything wrong. Did you?

Here is a photo that I just took of my two fountain pens. The one at the back is my Rotring 600 Fountain pen with an Extra Fine nib. I have had it since year 11 and it only cost me 1/3 of what it was worth :D The one at the front is the Faber Castel Porsche one. It has a Fine nib (I REALLY wish Faber Castel would make a EF nib), my parents bought it for me as my 21st pressie this year. The best thing about the Faber Castel nib is that it is Gold with Rhodium plating. Silky smooth to use. A page about Rhodium: http://www.scescape.net/~woods/elements/rhodium.html

[img]http://home.netspeed.com.au/mlanham/DSCN0111.jpg[/img]

Sorry for the qual of the pic. I don't have a tripod yet, so I have to use a flash :/

As for styles of drawing. I use A3 paper so I do tend to use my elbow/shoulder a bit more. My tech drawing teacher in high school taught us to draw straight lines that way. I do use my wrist and fingers the majority of the time though. I also hold my pencils/pens really weirdly. I choke the crap out of the nib. No holding it further back like I was taught :p

My Wacom technique is very similar. Wrist for small details, arm for long strokes or movements.

I just bought a new art pad as well with smoother pages, so I should start to get a bit more used to frictionless drawing (with any luck) :)

Submitted by ironikart on Fri, 05/12/03 - 7:50 PMPermalink

I just got a tablet as an early christmas present and I can't wait to use it in texturing... no more hand cramps!

From the couple of scribbles I've done so far I think having a tablet is going to greatly increase the quality of my textures and also the speed at which I can produce them.

Go tablets!

Submitted by MoonUnit on Fri, 05/12/03 - 10:16 PMPermalink

damn you ironikart and your ability to actually use them :P

(btw itonik incase you havent figured i found the pen :P )

Submitted by souri on Sat, 06/12/03 - 12:02 AMPermalink

quote:Originally posted by MoonUnit

i was given a tablet for my birthday and when i try to use it, i draw like a 2 year old on depressants. Ive been drawing by hand for yonks, and likewise with mouse, but i simply cant acheive anything near what i get with a pen and paper.

Did anyone else find this when they first started? am i approaching this the wrong way?

It definately takes some getting used to and a lot of practise before it becomes second nature, I'm sure. I wish I had one years ago. If any of you younger high-school student types want to get into concept art/texturing, get a graphics tablet NOW! They're affordable, and you'll develope those graphics tablet wielding skills earlier...