Ownership of student IP in Aussie games c

Institutions with publicly available agreements. More will follow.

Changes:
August 2:
Fixed some pasting from unicode to ascii issues.
Added AFTRS and UTS
August 3
Added Deakin and Swinburne Universities
Made the Murdoch quote longer.
August 4
Added Flinders and Adelaide unis from posts below
Added the University of Melbourne

Queensland University of Technology http://www.qut.edu.au/admin/mopp/D/D_08_01.html
quote:
8.1.4 c i QUT has no automatic right to intellectual property created by students during the course of their study at QUT. However, where student creators assign intellectual property rights to QUT, this policy will apply to them no less favourably than it applies to QUT staff. QUT may seek to have a student assign intellectual property to QUT where:
*there is a substantial use of QUT resources beyond which is normally provided for their course of study or research
*the intellectual property is created by a team involving at least one QUT staff member of which the student is part.

James Cook University http://www.jcu.edu.au/office/Policy/ippol.htm
quote:
4.5 The University makes no claim to automatic ownership of Intellectual Property created by students in the course of their studies at the University.

RMIT University http://mams.rmit.edu.au/l11qeacwcb081.pdf
quote:
Subject to any employment relationship between the University and a student or
any provision in this policy, any R&D intellectual property created solely by a
student is owned by that student.
Where a student contributes to the development of R&D intellectual property
through research or other activities involving other students or members of staff
or uses existing University intellectual property (background intellectual
property), the moral rights of authorship of all those contributing to the creation
of the intellectual property will be recognised in accordance with University
policy.
Where a student is involved in a project or specific commission in respect of
which the University or any party to an agreement with the University has
provided funds, equipment, facilities or supervision, the University may require
the student to be a party to an intellectual property and/or confidentiality
agreement before commencement.

Victoria University http://wcf.vu.edu.au/LegalPolicy/PDF/POR040809000.PDF
quote:
6.3 The University makes no claim to ownership of intellectual property created by students,
except where the creation of that intellectual property involves;
or may involve substantial use of institutional resources beyond those which are
normally provided to students;
the use of pre-existing IP owned by the University or other party that forms the basis of
the student's research project;
the student receiving specific input from University staff in relation to the intellectual
property;
a project supported by funding provided by the University with the objective of
developing IP of commercial value;
a project supported by funding provided by an external sponsor with the objective of
developing IP of commercial value.

La Trobe University http://www.latrobe.edu.au/rgso/information/cont_ip_policy_oct03.pdf
quote:
The University will not assert rights in a students invention unless:
(a) a member of staff of the University (such as the students academic
supervisor) is a co-inventor; or
(b) a third party has been granted rights to exploit or otherwise use the
invention; or
(c) the University and the student have agreed in writing.

Murdoch University http://www.murdoch.edu.au/admin/legsln/statutes/statute18.html
quote:
3.1 Subject to the further provisions of this Stature, the University is the owner of all intellectual property to which this Statute applies.
3.2 This Statute applies to:
(i) Intellectual property created by a staff member in the course of her or his employment by the University;
(ii) Intellectual property created by a student in the course of her or his studies, scholarship or research with or at the University
(iii) Intellectual property, the creation of which has been substantially contributed to by the University (or by any third person either on behalf of the University or by virtue of an agreement with the University) by the provision of resources, facilities, apparatus, supervision, salary or other funding.
3.3 (a) Notwithstanding anything contained in subsections 3.1 and 3.2, a staff member is the owner (and the University hereby formally waives any claim it would otherwise have to ownership) of the copyright in her or his conventional scholarly output. Likewise a student is the owner of the copyright in all original work produced by her or him in the course of or for the purposes of her or his studies, scholarship or research with or at the University.
(b) A staff member and a student may deal with and exploit such material freely without any requirement of explicit approval by the University.
3.4 If requested to do so by a staff member or a student the University must, without delay and at no cost to that person, execute a formal written assignment in favour of that person of such copyright as it may enjoy in respect of any written work to which subsection 3.3 applies.

University of Tasmania http://www.utas.edu.au/universitycouncil/legislation/pol_intellprop.pdf
quote:
3.1.2 Generally the University will not assert ownership of Intellectual Property rights developed
by students, however in consideration of benefits granted to students pursuant to clause
3.1.5, the University may seek to claim ownership of Intellectual Property rights developed
by students in the following circumstances:
a) when Intellectual Property (except copyright in a thesis) arises from a student's project
AND Background Intellectual Property is made available by the University for the
purposes of the project; and
b) when Intellectual Property (except copyright in a thesis) arises from a project which has in
whole, or in part, been funded by an external party, or where an external party has some
other interest in a project.
The University or the external party may require an assignment of a student's Intellectual
Property rights to the University.

AFTRS http://www.aftrs.edu.au/index.cfm?objectid=8FB1243B-D0B7-4CD6-F9AA21065…
quote:
XVI. COPYRIGHT OF STUDENT WORK
XVI.I
The copyright of all audio and/or visual products including films, television and radio programs and computer software programs made under the supervision of AFTRS staff and/or financed by AFTRS is vested in AFTRS.
XVI.II
The copyright of all original written materials (ie all those other than described in XV.I above) including scripts and unproduced musical scores remains vested in the author, with the exception that AFTRS may require a student to grant to AFTRS a non-exclusive licence to make one audio or audiovisual program utilising any such materials written under the supervision of AFTRS staff and/or financed by AFTRS.
XVI.III
The copyright credits for any film, television and radio program produced at AFTRS should read ? Australian Film Television and Radio School (year) in full.
XVI.IV
Students may not remove from AFTRS any films or videos (prints or negatives) or radio programs without all necessary authorisations.
XVI.V
On termination of the course of study the student will hand over to AFTRS all original materials and copyright work referred to in XV.I above. After the termination of the course of study, the student shall not make use of any such materials or copyright works without the prior consent of AFTRS.

University of Technology Sydney http://www.gsu.uts.edu.au/policies/intellectualprop.html
quote:
2.5 Intellectual Property created by Students
Students, not being employees of the University, own the Intellectual Property that they generate. In particular, Students own the copyright in their theses. The Rules of the University require, as a condition of candidature, that the University reserves the right, and under this Policy asserts that right, to retain the original or copy of any drawings, models, designs, plans and specifications, essays, theses or other work executed by a student as part of their course, or submitted for any award or competition conducted by the University. Such retention is not to affect any copyright or other intellectual property right that may exist in such student work (refer Rule 2.9 of the Rules of the University). In cases where the University exercises, or wishes to exercise, its right under Rule 2.9.2 (ii) or (vii) the students shall grant the University a non-exclusive, royalty free, perpetual, irrevocable, world wide licence (including the right to sub-license) to make available for consultation, loan, or copying, at the discretion of the University Librarian subject to the Rules, any copy of a thesis deposited with the University Library in accordance with Rules 3.4.13, 3.5.13, or 3.6.5, subject to any pre- existing lawful confidentiality agreement.
Where a Student's supervisor makes a contribution to Intellectual Property the Intellectual Property will be owned jointly by the Student (who is not an employee), and the University (as the supervisor's employer).
Where a Student participates in a research team whose members include Staff Members, the Intellectual Property arising from or created or developed by the research team will be owned jointly by the Student (who is not an employee), and the University (as the University Staff Members' employer).

Deakin University http://theguide.deakin.edu.au/TheDeakinGuide.nsf/30f8b1212212f1bfca256e…
quote:
4.1.....Subject to section 7 when a member of the staff, or a student, of the University has made an invention in the course of University duties or studies, that invention shall be the property of the University.

4.2.....The University may by resolution of the Council appoint any person as its agent or nominee for the purpose of developing and exploiting any such invention, and may assign any or all of its rights therein to that nominee.

Swinburne University of Technology http://ppd.swin.edu.au/edupro/default.htm
quote:
Except where an agreement to the contrary has been negotiated between the University and an Originator, other than as expressly provided herein, the University owns Intellectual Property created by:
...
Students where generation of the property has involved use of the University?s resources and/or services beyond that which is ordinarily provided to Students enrolled for the particular course or program;

Melbourne University http://www.unimelb.edu.au/admindiv/IPPolicy/
quote:
Note that in general, students own intellecutal property they create in the course of their studies.

Flinders University http://www.flinders.edu.au/ppmanual/policySecretariat/ip.htm
quote:
8
Students

8.1
The University acknowledges that in law, ownership of intellectual property developed by a student in the course of his or her studies at the University vests in the originator on creation. The University therefore makes no claim to ownership of intellectual property developed by a student except where a student has developed the intellectual property directly in the course of working as a staff member of the University, in which case the provisions of this Policy relating to staff will apply.

8.2
The University may require students who will be undertaking research work with, or under the supervision of, staff in an investigative or creative activity to enter into an agreement, prior to commencement of that activity, to assign intellectual property rights to the University upon request.

8.3
The University will institute procedures to explain the content and effect of any such agreement, and will advise students to obtain independent advice before signing an agreement.

8.4
The University will require students to assign intellectual property rights only in situations where there is a significant contribution to the development of that intellectual property by a staff member or where the University has pre-existing ownership of related intellectual property.

8.5
A student who has assigned intellectual property rights to the University will be treated thereafter, with respect to this policy, as if he or she were a member of staff.

8.6
Nothing in this policy shall restrict the rights of students to hold copyright in their theses and other forms of assessment exercises and to submit these for examination. The University may require examiners to keep confidential the contents of a thesis where necessary to enhance or preserve the value of intellectual property contained therein.

Adelaide University http://www.adelaide.edu.au/ari/researchers/ipmanage.html
quote:
5. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY PRODUCED BY STUDENTS

5.1 If no employment relationship (see paragraph 4) exists between the University and a student, the student owns his/her intellectual property.

5.2 Students have, without exception, the unrestricted right to have their theses and/or work examined and to submit, subject to paragraphs 5.4 and 5.5, all or any part of their theses and/or work for publication. The University will also implement procedures which will ensure the integrity of students' copyright.

5.3 In the event that the intellectual property of a student's work is considered commercially viable, the University will encourage the student to develop and protect this property by offering the services of Luminis Pty Ltd in assessing, protecting and prosecuting the commercial application of the intellectual property. The student will be entitled to a share in the profits deriving from such development on the same basis as University staff (see paragraph 8) provided a licence to develop the commercial potential of the intellectual property is conferred upon the University.

5.4 In the case of team research, or research conducted for or in conjunction with outside bodies, the University may require the student to sign a confidentiality agreement whereby the student undertakes to maintain, in the strictest confidence, all relevant information pertaining to the project. This undertaking is qualified by the recognition by all parties to this confidentiality agreement that it may be necessary for the student to discuss aspects of the project with the student's supervisor and with other staff and students involved in the project. The student will at all times be entitled to submit reports of work-in-progress to his/her supervisor or departmental postgraduate co-ordinator.

5.5 In exceptional cases, and with the full concurrence of the student, the University may agree to public access to a thesis being restricted for a limited period (not exceeding five years) to enable the student, the University (and outside funding bodies if applicable) to benefit commercially from the results of the research project.

5.6 Students who propose commercially to develop their intellectual property outside the University are encouraged to inform the University of their intentions, and to obtain a statement from the University that is does not claim an interest in the property, before they seek outside development.

Monash University http://www.monash.edu.au/pubs/calendar/statutes/statutes11.html
quote:
2. Ownership of intellectual property
2.1 Subject to section 2.4, the university owns intellectual property, other than intellectual property created by a student

That's all the institutions listed on sumea and here http://www.gdaa.com.au/teachers-forum/courses.html

Does anyone know of anymore? I'm sure there are more. Please post below if you do.

Institutions without publicly available policies or with policies that I couldn't find on their website. Please email me (via my sumea profile) with corrections. More are likely to follow.

Southbank Institute

QANTM

Crash Education

The Academy of Interactive Entertainment (both Canberra and Melbourne)

Holmesglen Institute of TAFE

Melbourne International College

Flinders Uni doesn't have any game-specific courses, not that it would stop anyone from game "research" in honours/masters/PhD. So here it is:

http://www.flinders.edu.au/ppmanual/policySecretariat/ip.htm

quote:8
Students

8.1
The University acknowledges that in law, ownership of intellectual property developed by a student in the course of his or her studies at the University vests in the originator on creation. The University therefore makes no claim to ownership of intellectual property developed by a student except where a student has developed the intellectual property directly in the course of working as a staff member of the University, in which case the provisions of this Policy relating to staff will apply.

8.2
The University may require students who will be undertaking research work with, or under the supervision of, staff in an investigative or creative activity to enter into an agreement, prior to commencement of that activity, to assign intellectual property rights to the University upon request.

8.3
The University will institute procedures to explain the content and effect of any such agreement, and will advise students to obtain independent advice before signing an agreement.

8.4
The University will require students to assign intellectual property rights only in situations where there is a significant contribution to the development of that intellectual property by a staff member or where the University has pre-existing ownership of related intellectual property.

8.5
A student who has assigned intellectual property rights to the University will be treated thereafter, with respect to this policy, as if he or she were a member of staff.

8.6
Nothing in this policy shall restrict the rights of students to hold copyright in their theses and other forms of assessment exercises and to submit these for examination. The University may require examiners to keep confidential the contents of a thesis where necessary to enhance or preserve the value of intellectual property contained therein.

Am I getting ripped off here?

So Murdoch owns all rights to my IP. I think it is ridiculous, plus the fact that it is the only UNI on that list that does it (if I read it correctly). So if I make a really awesome game for this semesters project they own all rights to it? Does that mean they can market and sell it? (Not that I am boasting in being able to make a game worth selling)

And does that mean that because the UNI owns the IP rights, I cannot sell my own game?
I am actually quite shocked!

Well I'm not going to be drawn on whether or not you're getting ripped, I work and study @ La Trobe [:)] and I'm not a lawyer.

Deakin claims ownership too, and there are still quite a few more I have to add to the list.

I'm just about to add a longer quote from Murdoch- it seems to contradict the above. To really understand these things you need a contract/IP lawyer, which is why I suggested that perhaps the IGDA could help in the thread that caused this one. A really good contract lawyer costs around $250 per hour.

I suggest your first point of call is your SRC. Then if you are still unhappy the NUS. And at least Murdoch make this info available and you have an SRC to represent you...

Incidently how I find these documents is by entering "intellectual property ownership" in the search box on the institution's website.

quote:Originally posted by Acer

So Murdoch owns all rights to my IP. And does that mean that because the UNI owns the IP rights, I cannot sell my own game?
I am actually quite shocked!

Yes, if Murdoch does own your IP then that is what it would mean.

However my reading of the quote says they don't.

quote:
...a student is the owner of the copyright in all original work produced by her or him in the course of or for the purposes of her or his studies, scholarship or research with or at the University...

For other places who DO claim IP though - I'm not sure if VSU has hit yet, but this would be a good thing to take to your student union. Get your money's worth. Kick up a fuss. Ask the question whether you can ever use anything done at uni as a portfolio to get a job and see the entire arts faculty runnning terrified.

(edited after rereading, looks like Murdoch doesn't claim IP)

And here's one for Adelaide University, found exactly as lorien did the others.

http://www.adelaide.edu.au/ari/researchers/ipmanage.html

quote:
5. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY PRODUCED BY STUDENTS

5.1 If no employment relationship (see paragraph 4) exists between the University and a student, the student owns his/her intellectual property.

5.2 Students have, without exception, the unrestricted right to have their theses and/or work examined and to submit, subject to paragraphs 5.4 and 5.5, all or any part of their theses and/or work for publication. The University will also implement procedures which will ensure the integrity of students' copyright.

5.3 In the event that the intellectual property of a student's work is considered commercially viable, the University will encourage the student to develop and protect this property by offering the services of Luminis Pty Ltd in assessing, protecting and prosecuting the commercial application of the intellectual property. The student will be entitled to a share in the profits deriving from such development on the same basis as University staff (see paragraph 8) provided a licence to develop the commercial potential of the intellectual property is conferred upon the University.

5.4 In the case of team research, or research conducted for or in conjunction with outside bodies, the University may require the student to sign a confidentiality agreement whereby the student undertakes to maintain, in the strictest confidence, all relevant information pertaining to the project. This undertaking is qualified by the recognition by all parties to this confidentiality agreement that it may be necessary for the student to discuss aspects of the project with the student's supervisor and with other staff and students involved in the project. The student will at all times be entitled to submit reports of work-in-progress to his/her supervisor or departmental postgraduate co-ordinator.

5.5 In exceptional cases, and with the full concurrence of the student, the University may agree to public access to a thesis being restricted for a limited period (not exceeding five years) to enable the student, the University (and outside funding bodies if applicable) to benefit commercially from the results of the research project.

5.6 Students who propose commercially to develop their intellectual property outside the University are encouraged to inform the University of their intentions, and to obtain a statement from the University that is does not claim an interest in the property, before they seek outside development.

I believe Media Design School in Auckland (www.mediadesign.school.nz) have a fairly straightforward IP policy where the students own everything (though I expect there is perhaps some requirement to allow MDS to be able to showcase student work).

Indeed, they actively encourage students to try to commercialise their work as far as I know.

Any students or officials from MDS, feel free to correct me on any of the above :)

Thanks mcdrewski. That's my point about Murdoch- it also says "the University is the owner of all intellectual property to which this Statute applies", which was the part I spotted first.

And yes, RIGHT NOW is the time to make a huge fuss about this stuff, VSU is specifically designed to remove/lessen students abilities to get things changed.

Another thing to ask is if you are able to continue work done as an undergrad at another uni as a postgrad.

AFTRS seem to be pushing it with their agreement too- imho a bit dissapointing after the fuss they made about themselves @ freeplay.

Please post any that I miss, I'll integrate them into the main list.

This is exactly the sort of issue that SRCs and the NUS love to get into big fights with institutions over. Don't hesitate to take it to them- it's exactly what they are there for.

I think everyone should be asking any institution that doesn't make this information clearly available on their website lots of very difficult questions... Make a real pest of yourself (like I have). A wonderfull place to ask these questions is in public, when a head of school or the like appears on a panel [:D]

quote:Originally posted by Mario
(though I expect there is perhaps some requirement to allow MDS to be able to showcase student work).

That is also something to watch out for. It seems fair enough at first, but what happens if you are unhappy with an institution and they claimed the right to use your work to promote themselves? I think an institution should have to ask permission, and this shouldn't be an automatic condition of study. Group work of course makes this complicated.

Also make sure that if you have such a clause it only makes claim to the work you did as part of your studies at that institution.

Still another point about institutions that claim ownership: do they only claim work that you do using their equipment in classtime, or do they try to claim work you did at home, using your own equipment, in your own time too?

This is turning out to be a wealth of important knowledge - good job on getting it all down so far guys.

I wonder who owns the software licenses the students use, and if they are professional or academic.

Scott.

quote:Originally posted by Mario

I believe Media Design School in Auckland (www.mediadesign.school.nz) have a fairly straightforward IP policy where the students own everything (though I expect there is perhaps some requirement to allow MDS to be able to showcase student work).

Here is the official word I got from MDS

"Students at Media Design School retain ownership of any intellectual property they independently create while studying at Media Design School, except where one or more staff members make a contribution to the creation of intellectual property in connection with a research project, or where there are written agreements in place, prior to the development of the IP with the school or a third party.

The school retains the rights to utilize all student work produced by students for exhibition and communication purposes."

QANTM's software is only on student licences, and you are not permitted to use them for work outside of qantm. Also students retain the IP of any work they produce at qantm, or so they told us when i started there. It would be listed in the student handbok if this is stil the case (i think you can get this off the qantm website).

Sorry LiveWire, after skimming I don't see any details of IP ownership mentioned in either the student handbook or student policies document available at http://www.qantm.com/handbook_policies.php . I would like to have made a mistake, so please double check.

Please, if you are going to make statements about an institutions policies include a URL so everyone can check. Also note that directly quoting a document without a full reference is plagiarism (a form of academic misconduct).

quote:Originally posted by rezn0r

I wonder who owns the software licenses the students use, and if they are professional or academic.

Scott.

Pretty much all institutions use academic software, which could cause big problems if a student wants to commercialise work (or for that matter if an institution wants to). I avoid this issue in my research by refusing to use anything that isn't open source.

lorien: sorry, i din't actually check the student hand book, i was just quoting what i remember being told when i began my diploma in 2003. ofcourse qantm is under new ownership now too, so things may have changed. i'll have a look anyway next time i get the chance and see what i can find.

I made a direct enquiry to AIE about their policy and recieved this reply. I have edited it merely to take the contact details out of the email so the poor guy who sent me the response isn't spammed out of existence for helping! [:D]

My Email
quote:
Hi there,

There's been some recent discussion about Intellectual Property terms for various game courses in Australia on sumea.com.au, and I was writing to enquire as to what AIE's terms are.

Most large universities make their terms and conditions publically available, but I haven't been able to find yours on your website, can you direct me to them or send a copy through?

Thanks!

AIE's Response
quote:
Hi Drew,

Thanks for your enquiry!

The present I.P. agreement between A.I.E and students only requires that the AIE have access to the student's work for promotional and marketing purposes and, as far as possible, we credit the authors. Otherwise students retain the I.P. of individual assets they create.

For games students, in particular in the past, the AIE I.P. agreement has reflected the close working relationship between the students and local development studios.

Currently if a games student works with a third party outside of AIE that may involve developing unique I.P., then an agreement between that third party and the student will cover all I.P issues.

For the past few years, I.P. on team projects created on educational licenses in game development stays with AIE, though it is our policy to give the I.P. to students on the teams who want to try and turn these projects into commercial games. In all instances, where individual assets can be identified as belonging to a student, then he/she retains the I.P. of that individual asset.

AIE has not and does not create any commercial value from this student work.

It probably is a good idea to publish this policy. At the moment all applicants are made aware of AIE policies regarding I.P. through our Student Handbook prior to enrollment. We have been thinking of publishing our whole student handbook containing all our policies and procedures, but we'll have to discuss that here further. It's likely to happen shortly when we put up more material for next semester's intake.

I hope this information helps you out and if you need anything further please let me know. Thanks for the link to sumea.com.au, will have to have a look at the thread!

Kind regards,

Matt

Student Liaison

(edited to add my original email)

One can't help but wonder about the IP arragements of a course such as this quoted from page 10 of the brochure titled

The Academy of Interactive Entertainment
3D Computer Graphics and Computer Game Development
2004
Education and Training

quote:
Advanced Diploma of Multimedia
Program: Multimedia
Program Code: CUF60501
Pre Requisits: Diploma
Location: Canberra
Course Duration: 6 months
Course Times: 40 hours per week
Application: AIE
Modules Covered:
Overview and industry awareness
Learning the Game-Engine art tools
Initial Design
Art Revision
Art Polish
Portfolio work and presentation

The aim of the Advanced Diploma of Multimedia is to learn as part of a professional development team. Students will be mentored by experienced industry artists and programmers, as well as Academy teachers within an industry setting. Students will be learning, applying and adapting emerging technologies to create multimedia products that are of a commercially viable industry standard.

By being part of the game development team, students will fill an integral role in the development cycle and will be involved with all the processes required to make a demonstrable game. This will involve applying knowledge gained through; tutorials, lectures, meetings, feedback sessions and informal discussions to demonstrate appropriate industry awareness about standards, skills, proceedures and poliecies.

Students applying for this course will required to apply through the AIE, they will be required to submit a portfolio and attend an interview with the game development company and the AIE.

Did you directly ask them for a copy of their policy and have them reply with that mcdrewski? (don't answer if you don't want to of course) Why I got a bit annoyed in the previous thread was because I'd asked a direct question of a head of school at freeplay and been given an indirect answer.

I've edited my post above to add my original email.

My experience is that most people when asked for specifics (especially legals) in public will give an indirect answer because they don't want to give the wrong information.

But you didn't ask for specifics, you asked for a document and were refused. From the AIE's post quote:It's likely to happen shortly when we put up more material for next semester's intake. .

How many years does it take to get simple information that almost every other institution provides, freely up and available on the AIE's website?

IP issues were brought to their attention rather loudly at freeplay last year- there were AIE staff in the audience.

Hmm, should have checked the website a bit harder (actually I didn't expect to find this diploma online at all), but the Advanced Diploma in Multimedia course has been updated a little:

from http://aie.act.edu.au/courses/course_advanced_dip.php quote:Assessment will be carried out on the job

and from http://aie.act.edu.au/courses/join_advanced_dip.php ("HOW TO JOIN US Advanced Diploma of Multimedia") quote:This course is set within a working production company.

without any mention of any strings attached at all except
quote:Enrolment
Once the interviews/tests have been completed, all applicants will be advised in writing as to the success of their applications. Those applicants who are successful will be asked to fill in the appropriate enrolment form.

We are glad to help you at any stage - just get in touch.

I did the Diploma of Computer Game Development btw (http://aie.act.edu.au/courses/course_dip_game_dev.php) which also says nothing at all about the being documents other than the enrollment form to fill out http://aie.act.edu.au/courses/join_dip_game_dev.php

My point here is to illustrate the "close working relationship between the students and local development studios" [AIE above]

Although a course located only in Canberra does narrow it down a bit doesn't it?

lorien; who's software were you using while at the AIE? Who's computers were you using?

I've spoken with people who have done/are in the games course, they told me that they were informed about the whole IP issue when they started the course, so if that's the case, then I can't see the problem. Sure, they don't mention it on their site, but if they tell you before you start going and making your own IP with their licences, I can't see what's wrong with that.

What is the IP in question by the way?

Firstly who are you? I'm posting under my full name and place of study/work, and I know who most of the other sumeans who've posted here are. Are you AIE management/staff? I see you're in Canberra from your profile, but there is next to no information about you there, nor in your profile on http://s7.invisionfree.com/evolution and this is your first sumea post. Pardon me, but I'm a little suspicious.

I'm glad they were informed. I've never said the AIE aren't informing people now (I have no idea). I am saying that they didn't inform us adequately. They said "don't worry about the scary language, it's just for the protection of the companies involved", and "You have to sign this before you can start" when we were already in the classroom. I'm not going to say anymore on that because I'm under an NDA. Note the plural "companies" though.

And yes, the NDA in question is in the student handbook that no-one outside ever sees. With an agreement like the one I signed imho that is nothing like "being informed". Perhaps the people you asked aren't fully aware?

Probably around 90-95% of the programming side of Hail happened using our own software (don't know about the others, but I bought the academic version of msvc and registered it), on our own computers, in out own homes. Do you still not see anything wrong? What are fees paid for btw? (and if you are going to reply "teachers" then I suggest asking the AIE about programming teachers on the Hail project).

Also the computers and software in question don't belong to "local game development studios" (or do they?)

You seem to be trying to push this thread to be about a specific case. This isn't going to happen I'm afraid, because I don't care about the specific case, nor do I care about the sound engine I developed. I started from scratch long ago, partly because of ownership issues and partly for tech reasons. If I really cared about the specific piece of work you wouldn't find a big thread here about it. I've used my specific case as an example, and it's one I'm allowed to talk about to some extent because it involves me. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Incidently are there any other institutions that require students to sign an NDA?