PS3 Delayed for Australasia and Europe

You can can at least console yourself (hah!) with the thought that launch titles traditionally suck.

The Wii might be set to buck the trend with its unique nature. Either way, the Wii is bound to be the fabled "first" console, rather than the "second", for many would-be PS3 owners. Assuming they too don't run into any diode shortages..

go NIntendo!

My guess is that the PS3 will retain much of the PS2 market share - if I am not mistaken, they have sold more than 100 million worldwide, that is more than twice the XBOX and GCUBE put together.

Sony needs to get smarter and change the meanings of a few phrases like MS does.

I think it is funny, that everyone (that is developers) has turned on Sony - or at least the vocal ones. Considering, it is MS that forced next-gen upon us at least a year if not two before it was due - cutting the existing life-cycles of the established consoles, short.

Though other factors aside, can you really blame Sony if they are forced to delay their next-gen platform release, especially since they were forced to move it forward in the first place? Actually, don't bother answering that, I don't feel like replying to it ;).

You make one hell of a thought-out argument. No, really ;)

If Sony had any balls, I'd love to see them release the PS3 in the US & Europe this Xmas - leaving Japan out in the cold. After all, its not like the 360 has any hold there. But that would probably piss off too many Japanese developers, and may put them into further trouble with Nintendo annihalating them in the handheld stakes.

Originally I took things at face value, and went with the hype. But after digging around, I don't see how Nintendo are killing Sony in the handheld market.

Finding info via the net is a real pain-in-the-arse, but there are bits and pieces about the place. Though I have to admit, it was someone else's leg-work and industry / market watching that pointed me in the right direction.

PSP: 17.03 million units worldwide - 2006/03/31
DS: 16 million + worldwide (DS & DS Lite) - 2006/05/25

The sources come directly from both Sony and Nintendo business data - listed on their sites.

545 PSP titles available at March this year, and only 400 odd on DS - and that does not include UMD films.

The sources for these I can't find at the moment. However, if you take a trip to your local EB store, you'll find that the PSP now has a decent display and range of titles or fairly similar size to the DS - not taking into consideration the GBA games put next to the DS ones and the UMD films put next to the PSP titles.

If you look at other sources, you'll also see that their has been a spike in GBA title sales for the DS, you'll also see that something like half of the DS sales have occurred in Japan - and they have far different gaming tastes to the "west." You'll probably also get the impression that the DS has sold more than the GBA because it has branched out of the traditional market by attracting more female gamers (like with Nintendogs) and older gamers (like with Brain Age). The PSP however has branched out by not being exclusively kiddy in nature, and not relying on Japan and the tastes of its gamers to carry it.

I'll try and post the links to the two sources above next, hopefully it won't flag the thread for "comment abuse."

This year alone, the DS has sold close to 5million units in Japan - with the PSP at just over a million. But this only tells a small part of the story - many people buy PSP's for reasons *other* than playing games (UMD movies, music, hacking, warez apps, etc).

When you actually look at the game sales for the PSP it paints a pretty bleak picture. In short - games are not selling, and the ones that do are selling in the 200,000 vicinity (with some exceptions - such as GTA & Monster Hunter in Japan).

The DS by comparision is doing amazingly well with titles that just keep selling week after week. Japan now has 3 DS titles that have sold more than 3 million units (Brain Training II, Animal Crossing & New Super Mario - which hits 3 mill this week). And another 5-10 titles over the million mark - including a couple of 3rd party titles.

If anything, I believe Sony is the one distorting the overall picture - quoting shipment values vrs sales figures, and spending significant amounts of money marketing the system (much more than Nintendo from what I know).

I don't think there is any question that the PSP has underperformed, and unless something changes in the next 12 months (major price cut, new revision, more innovative software) the PSP will gradually fade from existance.

Of course you will *never* hear any of this from Sony - they make money off every system sold, every game sold and every UMD sold.

In my opinion the problem with the PSP is this: its effectively a weaker version of the home console (PS2). Any game on the PSP is better on the PS2 (and now definitely the PS3), and because the control system is identical, its hard for games to differentiate themselves on the system. Couple this with the fact that the PSP is expensive, doesn't play DVD's (instead you have to buy a custom version of a movie you already own), is (relatively) weak on battery life, and doesn't have anywhere near the online presence that the DS has - and you can see where it is headed.

FYI: tried to post the links to the figures above, but as I thought, it got blocked - even with me fiddling with it. I'll try something else later if no one else has any luck.

I know that EA reports that PSP titles sell on average 180k units in the US. If you figure out the market share of handhelds for the rest of the world, and take into consideration that Japan is a DS territory. Then you'll see that they sell far more than just 200,000 units.

And please don't say that there aren't any great games on the PSP. There are if you bother to look for them.

BTW, I found some NPD sales figures for the US (August 2006) - I think if you look around hard enough, you can find heaps of figures. I really wish there was a site that would report the real sales figures for all three territories (even if it was 1 or 2 months old).

Hardware
NDS - 278,000
PS2 - 262,000
360 - 204,000
GBA - 156,000
PSP - 146,000
GCN - 41,000
XBX - 9,000

What I will note is that there haven't actually been any *big* DS releases in the US last month - love to see the figures the month the Lite was released (or Mario was released).

PS - Im playing FFX on the PS2 at the moment...

Top 25 Games (by Revenue)
1. PS2 NCAA Football 07 - 492,000
2. 360 NCAA Football 07 - 332,000
3. NDS New Super Mario Bros. - 300,000
4. 360 Prey - 132,000
5. XBX NCAA Football 07 - 145,000
6. 360 Chromehounds - 111,000
7. 360 Battle for Middle Earth II - 108,000
8. PS2 Guitar Hero
9. PS2 Cars - 121,000
10. PS2 Naruto: Ultimate Ninja
11. PS2 Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories - 183,000
12. GBA Cars - 115,000
13. PS2 2006 FIFA World Cup
14. 360 Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
15. 360 2006 FIFA World Cup
16. 360 Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter
17. GCN Cars - 65,000
18. NDS Brain Age - 120,000
19. PS2 NFL Head Coach
20. 360 Fight Night Round 3
21. NDS Big Brain Academy - 118,000
22. PS2 Kingdom Hearts II
23. 360 Over G Fighters
24. 360 Call of Duty 2
25. PS2 Pirates of the Caribbean: The Legend of Jack Sparrow

Hardware
NDS - 377,000
PS2 - 241,000
360 - 206,000
GBA - 163,000
PSP - 161,000
GCN - 44,000
XBX - 12,000

The problem I have with the figures above is that they are a slice of a certain period in time, not an accumulative picture, or showing the evolving picture over time. A time-slice of one market can be rather skewed. Not saying they are bad figures, just saying that it is hard to make an argument one way of the other based on them.

Then there is the question of methodology, where did they get the figures from or base their figures on? If it is just retail figures, well, what about online? Are these figures straight from the platform developers and game publishers, or, via various news sites? Etc.

I'm also not trying to say that the PSP is better than the DS, as there are just too many holes in the research for me to be 100(percent) certain of that argument. But, I do think that there is a sizable gaming base for the PSP, the PSP has a good number of quality titles released and in development. And I also think that if I were to develop for the handheld market, I would go with the PSP, as I think any game I developed would be more appreciated by PSP owners and also have less limitations placed on it over the DS - content and hardware limitations.

But that is just my opinion. Back to work :).

Like all N fans they love quoting individual data to 'prove' their points. But the financial data Nintendo and Sony post in their quarterly/yearly statements are the best guide to go on. For two main reasons:
1. They represent the actual units that Nintendo and Sony have sold to retailers. Please dont try that old silly "shipped on sold thru" argument either. Thats plain rediculous. Sony only quote what they have sold to retailers and so do Nintendo. NEITHER know which ones are still on the shelf or which ones ppl have bought. In any case NEITHER company cares, because they have been paid for them!! So please, dont quote that sorta rubbish if you dont want to look like the classic manic N fanboy.
2. These numbers are specifically bound to earnings reports for share guidance. Any abberation and these companies can get into craploads of trouble (see Take Two as a great example of this).
So use thier numbers for the most accurate answers to the question. According to Sony and Nintendo, hardware unit sales are almost even between PSP and DS (around the 21 million units as of July). But across territories they are vastly different. For example in Japan DS sells more than half its units, and PSP is around a fifth of the DS sales. But DS sells very little in UK/Europe, and PSP sells its majority there. In US DS and PSP are similar in sales (over the last year).

In terms of unit sales for software, again looking at a single month's sales is not going to give any real indicator. Unit sales of software on DS has been good, in a few franchises, but PSP has also had good sales of units - for example GTA LCS looks misleading in your post above.. with over 4 million units sold, its second to Nitendogs only in unit sales (with 7 million). So its a little untrue to be showing a single month as a generic snapshot of worldwide handheld gaming market.

Finally there is one very undeniable fact, about these two systems. The DS costs less than _half_ the price of a PSP. In ALL regions. And yet the PSP is selling as many units, and selling a great deal of software and movies as well. Regardless of what system you _like_ this is a very sucessful machine (the PSP) and its even odd to be comparing it with the DS with such a wide price gap - you'd think N fans would shy away from doing this because it makes the DS market look quite poor (in terms of capbility to compete on price/features).

All the info about the PSP and DS is readily available at Sony and Nintendos company financial sections. They also have breakdowns of unit sales to regions. So rather than read the hype, head over there and get the info yourself and see what the market is really doing. Id also suggest reading EA & THQ's financials they provide a good breakdown of software titles and units sales within genres.

Cynical fan is correct. Alot of the time many things go around the web like wildfire and people simply beleive it. It turns into a bit of a classic urban myth. And also, he is right about Japan, that market is divergent from the western audience, thats why some 50 percent of western titles dont get released there, and some 70 percent of Japanesse made titles dont get released in the western markets. Also, to continue the myth thing, like the previously mentioned "poor launch title selection" of the PS2. Anyone here guess how many they had for launch in the US? Try 29 (IGN has the release list from 2000).. yeah.. the most of any console yet. Odd isnt it. How perceptions and comments end up making truths in-fact the opposite to reality. Sounds like a George Bush presidential campaign.

Sham - I think you need to be more objective. Saying its a pretty 'bleak' picture for the PSP is quite funny. And there are some other key factors that are problematic for DS - mainly that first party titles only seem to be the decent sellers on DS, whereas on PSP, like PS2 both first party and third party titles are selling well. This is important from a business aspect, where all of devvers here in Aus work as third party developers on DS titles. This being the case, it should be of some concern that Nintendo isnt as supportive of their other developers - this has been classicly true for GC too. Maybe its just the initial few couple of years of dev cycle that show this out, but as a developer on handheld, the PSP looks alot more reassuring as a development platform for third party development, even though I work on GBA and DS titles myself.

On the PS3, I think itd be a fool to write off a 100million userbase, and assume that somehow Sony have 'lost' or are 'in trouble' with the PS3. In fact it surprises me that so many ppl have this very anti-PS3 or anti-Sony thing happening (very much along the lines of the web media for the last 12 months). The reason it surpises me, is that they havent released a console yet, but people are chastising Sony for changing the prototype.. or for not having enough games.. or for adding blu-ray because its not going to succeed?? How can _anyone_ make these judgements so far in-front of the actual unit going on sale and actual games being sold? Its quite a bizarre media beat-up. Something I have never seen before in the console business, and its a little funny, because I think come next year, people will probably be jumping at trying to get to do PS3 titles, purely due to the market penetration that have. Very odd comments from ppl within an industry.. that is really just a business after all people.. thats all :)

So rather than buy the hype ppl.. read the financials - I have often gotten into the habit of looking at all financials released for any large game publisher, and most of the time the information is invaluable, and a very vivid picture of the game industry and its market segments.

Think of it this way round - Sony must be feeling very confortable to be able to continue delays on release of their machine. Im sure if MS had doen alot better (say 10 million) then there would be alarm bells ringing at Sony.. but the reality is, is that they uptake of the X360 has been very slow (many ppl are even saying its fairly poor - especially a couple of publisher execs) .

With these things factored in, I think people need to sit back and take a look at the market from a pragmatic view, rather than the usual fanboy hyperbole view. There are some interesting things happening in this generation, and I think the market shares will be alot different to what most people are saying.

And thanks for clearing up my X360 2 million fubar, and correcting it to 5 million.

The reality is that BOTH handhelds are doing okay at the moment. And the more that do well the better for all us in the business.

Like you said, it's a business. And business ain't so hot right now. And Cynical come off it... you are going to blame MS for getting Sony to commit to an early release date?!? Sony is to blame for the problems they've caused themselves, no one else.

I reckon overall game sales have slumped because gamers were eager to get their hands on a PS3. At some point in time, perhaps very soon, they'll get sick of waiting, and go for an alternative (Wii). After all the bungles, we don't really know when-if the PS3 will show up in stores, and when-if it does, how do we know it won't be a turd?

Sony had the momentum and blew it, and I won't be surprised if the PS3 turns out to be a turd with quality control problems or what have you.

Anyway, we will all know soon enough I think.

Is it because they are offering something that is next-gen and aren't afraid to actually put in new tech to achieve it, and your pissed off at the price you'll have to pay for it? Not to mention when they delay the release so as to ensure that they have a quality product.

Or is it because as developers, you resent the challenge that developing for the PS3 may very well be to you? Perhaps one that is too much of a challenge for you, with the new technological possibilities and the tech to come to grips with, not to mention the higher level of quality that is demanded of game titles - which is a key point, as I'd say many local developers have that as a weak point.

Is this why you have all come to resent them, because of your own short-comings?

It seems to be the one I am leaning to, and explains why you love the familiarity of X360 and why you are all "eager" about the Wii - that isn't even trying to be next-gen at all. There seems to be a reoccurring argument that the Wii will be more innovative to develop for gameplay wise, yet going off of the history of local developers. I'd say putting together the words "innovative" and "gameplay" to describe most of the development efforts, would be a clear lie.

Therefore it seems like another excuse or developer pipedream to me.

Sony talked big trying to overshadow the 360 and create consumer doubt, now they're suffering some backlash for it, that's to be expected. I'm surprised you're surprised by it.

Nintendo are smart, they've let their demos do the talking, while they've kept console and launch details tight lipped.

At the end of the day, even if the launch is a turbulant one, the PS3 will be successful. That doesn't mean we can't kick Sony in the probverbial balls for failing to live up to their promises in the mean time.

" Enough's been said on both parts that you can stop pointing your finger at the local industry once again CF. We know how disenchanted you are with it, move on."

Well it was the only conclusion I could come to, or at least the main one that keeps on popping up in my mind for a lot of developers venting themselves in Sony's direction. I wouldn't say disenchanted, just a little sick and tired seeing the familiar patterns it displays.

"That's where a lot of the public anti-Sony stuff stems from. The developer anti-Sony stuff stems from their infamous developer support."

"Sony talked big trying to overshadow the 360 and create consumer doubt, now they're suffering some backlash for it, that's to be expected. I'm surprised you're surprised by it."

They are a business. They have competitors. Part of good business strategy is good information, and disinformation. Both MS and Sony - even Nintendo - use disinformation against their competitors, and to manipulate the market and industry.

I'm not surprised at all, just disappointed with the attitude of some developers, and also perhaps with their blind acceptance of hype for fact.

Anyway, enough said.

Kazi is right, they deserve the kick in the nuts because they are jerkin' us all around. Yes they are a business and that is the point. Ironically, you're blindly accepting the hype CF.

PS3 was supposed to be out already, but it's not. Snap out of it. The fumes coming off your PS2 power unit are getting to your head. The only thing that's going to save Sony's crust is if there's enough fanatics like yourself out there.

I don't own a PS2, I own an XBOX. I am not a Sony fanatic, I do not worship them. I am not disappointed by the release date being pushed back because I wasn't all hyped up for the original. When it is out, it will be out. Then I'll decide whether to buy one AC, not prior to this. If I were swayed by the "hype" as you put it. I wouldn't post a comment like this one or the ones prior to it.

Next time try actually reading the previous posts before posting, unless it was your intention to misrepresent my comments and get a rise out of me AC.

DS Lite is doing well, but so is the PSP as far as I can see (at least in overal sales)
The introduction of the black ds lite has had crazy sales.
Also the 360 is doing pretty well...not

Hardware
01 - Nintendo DS Lite - 228,939 (4,196,826)
02 - PlayStation Portable - 27,499 (3,939,299)
03 - PlayStation 2 - 22,703 (19,684,767)
04 - Game Boy Advance SP - 2,751 (5,884,378)
05 - Game Boy Micro - 1,791 (535,040)
06 - Xbox 360 - 1,250 (140,493)
07 - GameCube - 855 (4,157,561)
08 - Nintendo DS - 320 (6,577,480)
09 - Game Boy Advance - 22 (8,822,676)
10 - Xbox - 0 (475,522)
DS Total - 10,774,306
GBA Total - 15,242,094

I know he isnt a Sony fan, and if anything hes a non-console lover last time I checked :) Xbox being most loved :) So rather than have a balanced informed discussion you call him a Sony fanboy and reguritate the usual anti-Sony media junk.

How about some _real_ already published information, like the X360 and how it has had serious problems. Now that is valid, because there are numerous documented examples (even a couple of bizarre vids - like the disk scratching thing). So can you show me something about the PS3 like that, which makes it valid 'bad news'. The simple fact of the matter is until it is out, you can rant and complain as much as you like about the PS3, but its like blowing hot air - all meaningless talk.

For those that keep on with the "The PS3 should be out already".. should take a little look around the electronics, PC computer world, and look at all the examples of delayed products. On top of that, you should probably think, and use your brain and ask why Sony feel so comfortable as to delay launches. I think if there were alot more at stake, Sony would be rushing the PS3 as fast as it can. But since there isnt much competition (X360 around the 5 million) then its up to them to release it how they see fit.

How is it, as a consumer you demand Sony to do what you want rather than what the business does? How big is your ego, that you think you are more important than having a product that is complete, and well supported, or have enough available units for retail? You really think you are so important that Sony should ship when they say regardless? Fickle little people, stop being a consumer king and get over it.

When you take it that the PSP has already (almost) outsold the GameCube, then its doing pretty well. But it also shows how much arse-kicking the DS is doing - been out for about 20(?) months for 10.7mill sales. Its well on the way to outselling the PS2 (which has been out in Japan for almost 6 years - 75 months).

Its also hard to believe the 360 has done *that* badly. I can't see any chance of it picking up again.

The most interesting part of them for me is how they indicate that nearly half of the DS sales have actually occurred in Japan - as I alluded to earlier and I think Grover may have mentioned. That is a big chunk held in the often "wacky" tastes of the Japanese gamer.

Do you even live in the real world? I got good news for you. By the time your PS3 comes to Australia, the suckers in Japan and USA paying to beta test it will have worked out all the bugs you, hopefully.

But to answer your question, there are lots of problems that plague the PS3. Apparently the only problem with the Wii is the user, who is so weak from sitting in front of the computer or tv all day that he can't keep a grip on the silly controller.

You'd figure someone like that would have a proper grip from too much tossing off but apparently not.

And as for you people that are offended by me comments, piss off, it's all in good fun. Go get some sun.

Posting comments is one thing, attacking everyone and spreading bullsh1t is just pathetic - like you :).