Krome Receives $1.7 million for Game Engine Development

P.S. Krome are hiring. If you think you can make the place better, come and join us

Contrary to mofo's claim, *many* companies don't take government handouts, and of those that do most get far smaller amounts.

Of course Krome doesn't have to resort to mass sackings, they can employ people using tax payers money! Guess what - anyone avoid mass sackings when someone else is being the salaries...

As for the point about decisions being made in Brisbane as opposed to Britain, the US or Japan - that's just nationalistic crap. Its the quality of decisions, not the geographical location of the people who make them that should matter.

And yeah, I bet Krome are hiring, sapping the industry of limited talent, making it even harder for those companies doing it on their own and pissing away tax dollars in the process.

"If youhave a particular gripe with this company, why not share it in the forums?" = I'm so intolerant of ideas different to mine that I believe the only reason someone could disagree with me is if they have some other motivation.

"Pwned" = I can't contribute to a discussion on the financial arrangements that drive our industry but I better say something or I'll look lame (doesn't matter, you do either way).

"I cant see any logic in it" = I don't realise that 4-1=3. It ain't rocket science dude, there's only a certain amount of talent and companies have to fight over it,.

You say my arguements are unsubstantiated but in fact they're in line with contemporary economic theory. You might not agree, but that's not the same as saying that I'm pulling these arguements out of my arse.

For the record I've had no dealings with Krome whatsoever. My views here are entirely a result of the fact that they're getting government handouts. I'm totally against the concept in the games industry and the economy in general because I think it produces the opposite of the intended result. I thought I've been pretty clear.

It also fuels inflation. Most of us are too young to remember inflation, but its important to mention because the consequences of these types of policies only became evident when economists started to look into the causes of high inflation during the 70s. Indeed the fact that most governments gave up on the Dependency Theory is one of the reasons inflation is (for the most part) a thing of the past.

Whether its the government deciding who gets the money or a company deciding, the decision is still made by a person with a particular process and/or motivation with a particular outcome in mind.

The market system can be extremely corrupt and there are no rules or guidelines and exploitation is obviously in-built. Winning money for game related technology development is no easy task. Without seeing the details of this particular engine application its hard to say why they won this money, a straight next-gen engine (as every other company in Australia is in the process of developing) would not qualify under their own guidelines so there must be something more to this. Of course if you feel strongly enough about it you can do something about it. I doubt they have received all the funds yet. A well-structured argument made to the right government individual and fully backed up with facts would stop the process dead in its tracks. It may even result in a full enquiry, which wouldn't be a bad thing.

In terms of who actually deserves the cash to develop a next-gen engine then your company would probably be the most likely candidate in Australia, not Krome. Personally I think it's quite tragic. I don't think Krome is particularly strong technically and definitely shouldn't be trying to develop next-generation technology, but that assessment is only based on results so far and doesn't take into account future capabilities. This should be left up to companies and individuals with much stronger technology and a real technology focus (e.g. middleware companies), it's a highly specialised task requiring highly specialized management, processes and engineers.

So in short, there is much you can do about this if you want, and potentially there is much to be gained by doing so. Imagine if the Serenity engine was given this sort of injection of funds ... this can still happen and would definitely benefit all of Australian development (or rather a larger sector of the Australian games industry). A quick phone call to a couple of high-profile studios would provide you with the support required to make this happen.

As for what to do about all this, I think that making a few phone calls is an excellent idea, not sure if I'm willing to go as far as researching particulars to make an arguement to people in government that I don't have access to though. Afterall, I'm rather preoccupied developing next gen technology! Anyway, thanks for all the advice, we should move it to private next time though.

you pb and piv seem to be missing the big picture here, the main reason the government is giving money to the australian games industry.

the size of development teams, and development costs for next generation titles is going to be much much larger than current generation. for australia to immediately compete with larger, more heavily backed overseas developers/publishers, they need help from wherever they can get it.

like you said, the talent pool in australia isn't that large, therefore a compnay like krome just can't go out on the streets and find another 30 or 40 people to fill a team just like that. for an australian company to make a next gen title worthy of international consumption, they need to find alternative means to be able to do this, which includes getting governemnt assistance.

the games industry is one of the largest growing industries in the world, and already makes more money than the film industry. i don't blame the government for trying to invest in this industry, as long term, large scale australian succes can only do good things for the economy, as well as australian jobs etc.

You're confusing a good motivation and a bad solution.

we (the australian games industry) don't need money to make technology magically appear, we have the people who can do that, they just need help in the areas anonymous coward above has stated

It almost never works, it just rewards government access over technology and ends up putting the most talented people to work for companies that aren't in the best position to use that talent.

bk - if I didn't have confidence in the ability of the people in the industry then I wouldn't be saying that they can stand up on their own without government handouts, so it seems like you've got it backwards..

Including:
- pharmaceuticals
- biotechnology
- electronics
- acquaculture

I'm not saying that there aren't grants that are awarded for the wrong reasons (and am not intimating that it was for the wrong reasons given to Krome either), but to say that 'government grants are bad' is an exceptionally narrow minded view on the subject.

Sure it doesn't work some times, but the money is spent to promote growth, not to make a killing for every cent invested, and companies and ideas can grow through trial, not just success.

I agree with pb on many of his arguments. If Krome are doing so well why are they in need of government grant funding for their development efforts? Krome I believe are not the only studio to have used funding from Ausindustries, I believe and Auran and Micro Forte have as well - perhaps others that have not advertised the fact.

Anyway as I said, if Krome are doing so well then why are they not funding their projects with the profits of their hard labour?

I am not against companies using such funding to seed their studio, as the funding for startups has to come from somewhere. I am against established and apparently successful studio draining and monopolizing that funding for themselves. After all, if you were the granting body, and you got an application from Krome to develop a "next-gen" engine, over a grant from a startup that has no track-record, very little in the way of funding, but an innovative project that they need funding for, which do you think will get the funding?

I also agree on the argument that Krome shouldn't be developing a next-gen engine anyway, especially as they could license an engine instead - as stated, they are not exactly known for their "cutting-edge" technology. Anyway, it is not the tech that makes the game successful, but rather how you use it.

If this practice persists, the funding will simply dry up in my opinion, in that these funding bodies will only allow themselves to be burnt by developers a limited number of times. Sooner or later they will become savvy to the industry, and will not naively give out funding based on the appearance of success.

All it takes is one well placed shot or the lack of long-term sight to see, the ignorance of not heeding the warning signs of the cloud on the horizon, and the whole fa?ade will come crashing down rapidly, as the foundations have been eaten away by years of self-indulgent decay.

Then where will the local industry be, other than in the toilet?

Other than tear down everthing every developer in Australia has ever done.

Maybe you could do the whole country a favour and get off your fat arse and actually do something for a change.

When I have achieved something great for this industry, I'll let my actions speak for themselves, instead of hyping it up to paint a pretty picture. You never know, I might just do that something as well, and I may have achieved far more already than you realise - I don't feel the need to talk about all the things I do.

Oh, I haven't torn down every developer in the local industry. Actually I haven't torn any developer down, just used them as an example to back up a point or two along the way - my emotions aren't as tied into my comments as much as you think :).

My, my, you really know how to get someone all excited don't you sugar-lips. For your information, my arse is not fat and I have been quite busy in fact. Here's a piece of advice: don't shoot the messenger, as the message will be delivered regardless, and the messenger is not the source of your problems - you most likely are ;).

When I was running Nocturnal fulltime, even a fraction of this grant would have made a significant difference to the company. But for a large company like Krome? Im sure it will 'help out' paying the bills, but other than that it will have minimal effect.

And what is the idea behind funding a next-gen engine? Im sure *every* developer in the country would happily take this sort of funding to help develop a next-gen engine. Why doesn't every developer then get the same grant? What sets Krome apart?

It has been my experience, that (in general) only the big companies can apply for, and secure large grants - because only large companies have the time, personal and resources to actually put together decent applications for grants. And as I remember someone at MF telling me a few years back, that once you get one grant it becomes a LOT easier to secure more (the government feels more secure throwing money your way). I know that I looked at doing several applications for grants at Nocturnal (for much smaller amounts of money), yet the amount of paperwork involved was *literally* immense - so I gave up.
(the irony of course, is that larger companies need the grants less..)

Not to mention the politics involved. If Krome were financially challenged short-term, it would definitely be in the Queensland/Brisbane government interest to help them out - it would be a real blow to the state if Krome went down (and a real boost to Victoria if they did).

Anyway, my 5c.

Big company making money, gets huge grant. Why?
Small company struggling gets little/no money. Why?

It was said earlier but feeding big companies money doesnt boost the local indsutry. You need investment all over the industry to do that. From education, to startups, to R&D centres to middle and large companies. But it has to be effective in all areas, there is no point plugging the dyke in one spot only to have ten holes appear elswhere...

Big companies in Aus, in all industries have always been given this sort of 'special' treatment though. From car makers to electronics firms and resource sectors.. Another example that big game companies benefit: In Qld, if you have more than 80 employees you get a payrol tax discount (50(percent)!!!). There are also services discounts, rates subsidies and so on.. but not for the little companies, only for the big ones.

What this in effect does, is make bigger companies less efficient, and less able to compete against rapidly changing trends. Overall.. its a bad idea.. and will dilute the ability for the local industry to be able to fend for itself against the OS competitors.. I welcome the incentives the gov is showing, but its a typical "mates" handout.. rather than an industry booster.

The closest useful thing I ever read about was the Digital Media Fund's start up program (the name escapes me), but from the comments I've read, it sounded like it was the same old people begging for handouts. Even then, it was confined to Victoria, so it was useless for the rest of the games industry.

Presumably, the engine is going to cost $3.4 million to develop. I don't know if Krome factored a game into those costs, but I would've thought that quite exorbitant. For that amount, I would hope they're making something that blows Unreal right out of the water, or it's not going to be worth the effort.

Still, I did find most of the 'fine-print' disturbing for most of the grants I looked into. In short, most of them are actually interest-free loans. You still have to pay the money back in the future. And some of them actually handed partial IP rights over to the government, i.e. they effectively get a profit share of current/future apps/games.

In the end, I concluded that approaching a bank and taking out a decent overdraft was actually better (in long terms) than a grant - just more risky.

I'll be absolutely astounded if Krome manage to create a world-class, competitive next-gen engine. I can only imagine the time and money that has gone into Unreal Engine (or even Renderware), and unless Krome has a significant starting point its going to take them a couple of years just to get something decent running for the PS3. Just the code to create *efficient* (packet optimised, assembler driven, etc..) rendering pipelines on the PS3 will be difficult enough once you throw in some special effects.

From the ground up our engine has been developed for consoles. Any game developer will tell you that there's a big difference between developing a PC game and a console game, likewise for the engine that drives them. Our engine has been developed from the ground up to be a cross-platform engine. As opposed to some engines which have been developed for PC and then ported to other platform(s).

I think it makes more sense for startups to go with tried and tested middle-ware solutions personally, not well established companies that have been developing their own tech for several years. It's up to the individual company to weigh all the pros and cons and make a decision on which path to take. It's a critical decision, one which can determine the outcome of a project, indeed, a company's success or failure.

I can't comment on the government grant system. I have no idea how it works. I do agree with many points that have been raised in this thread though, and can understand why people question Krome's need over others - I can't comment either way. I don't know how the system works; I'm just a programmer, not an accountant.

Personally I'd love to see all local developers benefiting from governement assistance, be it tax incentives, grants, or whatever. However, I don't think small companies should receive grants just because they're small and need funding to survive. It's just not sound business sense unless it's a VC that's willing to take a risk and piss money away.

I think small companies must have a solid business plan, and prove that they have the means to not only survive with the aid of funding, but also that they can deliver on the promised goods within the promised time frame. The same kind of thing publishers expect before handing over bag fulls of cash each milestone. If the infrastructure isn't setup for the local industry to pursue such grants when they can prove that they are worthy, then something is definitely wrong..

Now if we're going to apply this logic, why doesn't Tantalus get the grant? Their technology is much better, they have much more experience.

I'm not sure where you get this idea that Krome's engine "stacks up quite well" (well, except by comparing it to PS2 Unreal) but even some of Krome's own engine team don't think its very good.

The fact of the matter is that the answer to the question "What sets Krome apart?" is simple: government access.

After all, $1mill to the government = nothing, and if even one of those startups becomes successful the money will be returned. Part of the problem I see in Australia, is because most of the money comes from OS - any good tech or ideas that are funded, end up OS. If grants like this were available (with the stipulation that the tech has to remain in Australia), I think the industry would be much better off than sending much larger, one-off grants to one developer (in a really competitive environment). The reality is, that every $ sent to Krome disadvantages every other medium sized developer.

I also found this disapointing when I started Nocturnal:
- I was not eligable for any form of dole, or unemployment benefit as I was working for myself
- I was not eligable for the Newstart (or whatever it is called) funding that can be paid to startup companies ('as Nocturnal had already been running for 6-12 months). This is roughly equiv. to the dole, and can be paid out to someone starting a company for the first 12 months.

If I was sitting on my butt watching TV all day, the government would happily fund it - but not when you are actually working hard for yourself.

"and unless Krome has a significant starting point its going to take them a couple of years just to get something decent running for the PS3."

I expressed my personal views on the kind of requirements I'd imagine would be needed to receive government funding, of which I'd also imagine Tantalus would meet. I didn't attempt to explain why Krome received a grant. As I said, I don't know how the system works.

Unless you are a lawyer and have read the final docs that need to be signed to get such funding, I wouldn't jump to conclusions about such sources. Yes, you probably will have to pay the interest-free development loans / grants back, but, usually only if you have actually made a profit - otherwise they are not going to bleed you dry if it did not make any money. Yes, they will probably have a percentage stake in the project or studio - depending on what funding you source and what the deal is that you manage to strike - but once you pay that funding back they will probably only ask for a mention in the credits. Also, that percentage may not actually be for the whole project but rather for a stage of a project - like 10(percent) of the initial pre-production phase rather than 10(percent) of the whole project.

Government sources of funding are usually there to promote growth, sustainable growth, not to really generate a profit from investing - as I understand it, though whether they actually promote growth or just invest into funding blackholes, is something that could be argued. Most of it just comes down to an*l government red-tape - bureaucracy. So they have you document everything, even if it doesn't even matter to them - they just love the paper work, and in this way they can be just like any other source of funding, even publishers with their inflexible accountant like milestones and delivery expectations.

But hey, don't take my word or anyone else's, do your own research on it ;).

Personally, though I see there being a lack of funding specifically for the industry, I don't think that is the real problem, the problem is perception by experienced developers - meaning individuals - that are needed by startups to be successful. Especially programmers, as they seem to be very risk averse, even though the risk they perceive is not as great as they believe, and the security that they perceive in being a part of larger / more established studios, is not all that it is cracked up to be.

For instance, a lot of these larger studios have been hiring like crazy and absorbing talent, kind of like a bear gains and stores fat for the winter in order to survive the the harsh winter. They've put on all sorts of projects: current-gen, next-gen, handheld, mobile, etc. Most of these projects are merely thrown together and poorly planned titles that only have the outcome of attracting publisher funding for more fee-for-service work. The possibility of all these projects securing funding is not that great, and the possibility that the funding secured can be stretched over all their employees is also slim - unless perhaps a publisher acquires them as a first-party developer.

So what happens? Well they manage to survive like the bear does, but, like the bear they have burned up a lot of excess fat (talent), though which may be rich and useful to the bear (studio), gets discarded anyway. Unfortunately like the bear, they just don't know how to do anything else as they just don't have the know-how.

So the studios will probably shrink - not exactly "job-security" if you ask me :/

Experienced individuals might actually find they have more job security with leaner and smaller studios - even startups - that have a more focused approach to development - like 1 to few titles or just focusing on next-gen or mobile development for example - and also have a more methodically throughout, planned and documented out approach to development, with the aim of creating original IP.

These guys have clear goals and aims in what they want to achieve and how they want to achieve it, and are driven to succeed. Unlike the majority that are just putting together as many projects as possible, most probably poorly planned, in the hopes that one will get funding in the way of fee-for-service work, and the studio will survive in some form - with the founders not having to miss a pay-check as talent gets laid-off.

One last thing, I recall reading a piece of business strategy that has stuck with me over the years, and that is that you should: ruthlessly reinforce success and starve failure - and I am going to assume they meant real success not the illusion of it.

Which ties into the following comment that was made: "However, I don't think small companies should receive grants just because they're small and need funding to survive." Well, I could reason the same for large companies, as propping them up is a waste of funding as well. They will never create more wealth than they have absorbed, and funding them will not progress the local industry but rather stunt its growth or even stagnate it.

I think Shams is right, if that funding was given to startups with original ideas and approaches, that would probably grow the industry more and create far more stability, unlike the unstable growth we now have with bloated studios giving the impression of growth and stability.

But then again, I could be wrong and just talking out of my arse like so many others do in this industry :).

Don't even bother if no one on your team doesn't even have any development experience, especially substantial development experience like lead on a major AAA title that has been released - not just a junior janitor credit on a mod or something ;).

You'll just be wasting your time not to mention alienating potential sources of funding for the industry :P

You said it!

You're obviously a highly articulate and witty individual that has a deep insight into this industry. Judging by the complete lack of argument in your comment. With your keen writing skills, you must be awfully good at writing job applications. Good for you. Someone with your clear mental aptitude and sharp perceptions will probably need them in the years to come.

NoSpam, instead of SPAMMING the comment threads with your useless remarks, how about you actually right a constructive comment or just don't bother at all?

How about you actually show some insight and ability in writing an effective remark / comment / argument to someone else's? Like by stating why you feel a certain way, making sure to give examples / explanations to these in the way of support.

You said it!

Perhaps if Krome's attrition rates were not so alarmingly high (presumably their HR practices are as lacklustre as their production pipeline) they would present a more favorable recipient of this grant. as it is, they will most likely squander it on trips to romania to take photograpsh of rocks.

i agree that the Serenity engine presents itself as a far more logical benefactor of this grant, and i have no doubt there are dozens of startups of which i am unaware that would put the funds to infinitely more effective uses, as they would understand the role of the underdog, not simply slap it on top of the pile as they pack their bags for L.A.

After all, if the tech was so great, why establish a studio down in Adelaide for the ex-Ratbags that can't move interstate for whatever reason? I'm assuming it was for technology reasons, after all put a screenshot of Ty for the PS2 up against Slipstream or Scavenger for the PS2 and it is clear which one is technologically superior to which - after all the graphical demands of a toon-like game from an engine aren't as great as say Scavenger's are.

Hell, put up a screenshot of Ty up against that title that the defunct Evolution Games developed for THQ and it is clear which one at least looks better as a screenshot on the surface. Ty's engine is not even that great a current-gen engine for the PS2, I doubt it makes a good starting point for a next-gen one for even the PS3 - more like you'd start from scratch for the most part.

Though, I am not an experience engine and PS2 programmer or even a programmer, but, I believe PB is.

After all, if the tech was so great, why establish a studio down in Adelaide for the ex-Ratbags that can't move interstate for whatever reason? I'm assuming it was for technology reasons, after all put a screenshot of Ty for the PS2 up against Slipstream or Scavenger for the PS2 and it is clear which one is technologically superior to which - after all the graphical demands of a toon-like game from an engine aren't as great as say Scavenger's are.

Hell, put up a screenshot of Ty up against that title that the defunct Evolution Games developed for THQ and it is clear which one at least looks better as a screenshot on the surface. Ty's engine is not even that great a current-gen engine for the PS2, I doubt it makes a good starting point for a next-gen one for even the PS3 - more like you'd start from scratch for the most part.

Though, I am not an experience engine and PS2 programmer or even a programmer, but, I believe PB is.

That is my opinion and it is LAW!
Bow down and worship me before I destroy you all

Let's shed a tear for them, as I am sure they will experience quite a lengthy period waiting in line for the dole instead of walking almost immediately into another development gig.

It might be a nice humbling experience for them to do so in fact, they might even come to wonder why it is that certain developers get development welfare over others - all because they have been around the longest, yet, have nothing to really show for it. They may even wonder why there isn't more support for startups. Speaking of startups, what happened to the Adelaide one that I read about on Sumea, is this still going forward or did that come to an end when Krome headed into town. If so, I wonder what they might have achieved if they were given time to give it a good go - if you guys are still at it BTW, hope you guys have a good 2006 :).

And don't paint Krome to be saviours, if it wasn't them, then some other studio would have given them jobs - as at the moment talent seems to be in demand. Perhaps smaller studios may have secured their own funding and have been in need of talent, that Krome has now gobbled up. The point is quite simply that they would have found work. Period. So would have Krome's employees if it went under, if they were good enough.

That defunct company you mention is I believe now THQ up in Brisbane. And I would think that Pandemics work is a notch or two above Krome's ;) Especially the much hyped Ty that is apparently the "holy-grail" of game development in Australia. I wonder how well it stacks up to Destroy All Humans? Not that I would say that they are a 100(percent) Australian studio, and I also wonder how much of the title's success is due to overseas talent / know-how filtering to them - much like I wonder with every studio that is part of a larger international whole, beyond the publisher sweat-shops.

If Krome didn't get that funding, then that funding could have gone elsewhere as well as the talent. And I also have to ask myself, why if they are so successful did they need $1.7m from Ausindustry in the first place? I also have to ask where the funding they used to match it came from exactly, their own bank accounts or perhaps a pledge from a publisher? I wonder how long they could of kept the 150 people employed for if they had not gotten that funding. Though I don't suppose I will ever get a clear answer from Krome.

And don't give me any BS about those poor employees and how we wouldn't be better off without Krome. Those employees would have gotten jobs elsewhere, perhaps have started their own studio or at least joined smaller studios / startups that were making headway and of need of talent - and we would have more studios, perhaps one that is not reliant on developer welfare. Anyway, what is the point of a studio, a business, if is constantly reliant on outside sources of funding to keep it going - whether they be government sources or publisher funding for more fee-for-service work. That is not sustainability nor real growth, just a cheap labour farm for a publisher and a funding blackhole for the government - tax payer's money used to keep people employed doing their hobby... you have got to be kidding me, right? Though, perhaps that is an extreme case that does not apply to Krome but other studio in Australia, but then again.

FYI: I for one never said I was an industry leader, and at least unlike some, I haven't proclaimed myself to be one. Leadership is a quality that many simply have via a title, via a position, yet only few have via character. Whether I have it or not beats the hell out of me, I'm just someone who does not like having to eat other people's shit and say: "Yes please, can I have some more?" I have a brain and like using it so as to think for myself instead of letting the industry hype (PR / Marketing) machine do that for me. If you want to believe everything you are told and read, that is your problem, not mine. My problem is seeing an industry with serious hurdles for the future, yet does not want to face them and address them, as it may mean a few studio have to close their doors so that funding and talent can go to other studios with a more progressive outlook.

I have met some of the Adelaide guys, and a couple of them have relocated to Brisbane. They are good people, much like most people in this industry, and aren't deserving of your disrespect and criticism. If you're so good, I honestly can't wait to see what games you help bring to fruition. Not because I want to see you fail and say I told you so, on the contrary, I want to see you succeed because I think it's awesome to see great games being made in Aus, no matter who made them.

The Ty games were made for a younger demographic. Lots of kids love the game, we get fan mail with hand drawn characters from the Ty series - better drawings than I could hope to do. This fan mail comes in from all around the world, which I think is quite humbling and makes the teams involved proud. The kids usually get a thank you note and merch in return for their hard work :)

So while Ty might not be the holy grail of the graphical world to you (we've never proclaimed it to be), it does feature a lot of tech beyond just rendered polygons that make for an enjoyable game experience (and more enjoyable development experience!). Lots of little things that most people don't think about or consciencously notice when playing a game.

pb: We're developing a next-gen engine, it's in very good hands, hands that probably want to throttle me for opening my mouth on these forums in the first place :)

To everyone else: the amount of speculation and rumour mongering based on chinese whispers and circle jerks isn't healthy for the local industry. It's not a great way to foster a friendly community either, but then that's not the intention here is it? :/

Let the Spanish Inquisition continue!

kazi out.

CF over and out ;)

Boo hoo.

Ratbag also soaked up all the local talent too, so it made other companies harder to startup there, hence when Ratbag folded, there simply was no other gaming work - what Cynical fan said is true. Regardless of their situation a programmer or artist could move interstate for game work, its a pity it happened, but hardly unusual (under the circumstances esp) and if you want to stay in the games industry its a reality in Adelaide, that you will have to move elsewher - thats not a personal attach, thats simply facts. However, kazi you insinuate other meanings from the context, often an example of the hyperbole.. or diversion of truth that many people seem to love to purport.

This, sadly, is how the game industry here works. There are alot of accolades for all sorts of things, which is good, but sadly these accolades are often overblown and they are to the detriment of our industry - why? Because we keep going backwards not forwards. Long term studios closing is NOT a good sign, and investment being funnelled to a 'successful' company must surely be questioned in itself? If Krome is in need, then say so, say the money is to help out a struggling company. Aussies LOVE battlers..and I guarantee noone would even blink if Krome was doing it hard.. but if you are doing so very well, what is going on? Whats in it for the tax payer who is funding the engine of a largely, supposedly, successful coimpany?

I have had the privelidge of working on a few bits and pieces.. and kazi is right, there is alot you dont see that makes up an engine and can be just as critical in making it a 'great' engine. However, this is where my reference to hyperbole comes in. There is simply no way in hell you can compare Kromes engine to something like Unreal, or Renderware, or CryTech for instance. To even compare your engine to Unreal's, is completely being asinine. I do hope eventually your engine can be compared, but the idea of comparison is just a marketing ploy, and completely unrealistic in comparitive terms.

Some things still beg to be questioned though - how does Krome justify our taxpayer dollars? What is the national/state benefit of that funding? Is it purely more jobs? If so, is it a sustained level of more jobs, or just an interim thing as we have seen Ratbag go through for instance. What about other companies, what sort of dispersion of funds is occuring elsewhere? Is Krome the only lucky recipient of such large amounts? If so, why? Cynical also points out that single large funding grants wont necessarily boost the industry, merely prop up a company that shouldnt needing propping up according to their own hype? They are doing well arent they? These are the questions many here are asking..

btw.. people making personal attacks is often a sign of wanting to ignore the issues, and not tackle the real problems.

And no I didn't get knocked back for a job as I have never applied with them, nor will I most likely do so either, Queensland's climate is just too hot and humid for my likely - sorry to deflate your fragile ego on that one ;).

Dont we all have short term memorys. Why are you calling Krome a big company. They were a start up juts like everybody else. 5 people 5 years ago. Or do you think they just started with 150 people yesterday.

I dont know weather they got funding or not to start up. But they have gotten to were they are today not by handouts but working and not whinging like people here, just like all the other developers in Autralia, Torus, Tantalus etc. at least they are giving it a go, instead of just whining like school girls. I hope if you people have real jobs that you spend as much energy creatively as you put in whinging here.

Hey CF if you have all the answers. Why dont you start up a studio, it must be pretty easy you wont make any mistakes. Looking forward to your first AAA next gen game. Easy find a team, build some technology, put in your own money, hell we wouldnt want a publisher polluting your genuis, dont forgot to add a little bit for marketing, maybe another 4 or 5 million
Whens the ship date I ll pre order a copy. We all can't wait

To ask why my tax dollars are going where is surely a fair thing? Or rather than democracy would you like it hidden away and under the table? Being able to ask about what is happening in relation to the local gaming industry should be an important part to play for everyone - hence the excellent involvement of many posters here.

I wonder which is whinging? Asking valid qyestions about dollars I have earnt, and where they end up, or complaining about posts asking these sorts of questions?

Also Anon - you may wish to do a little bit of research, any monkey with 3 neural pathways can find out what CF is doing.. has done.. and is going to do. Id also suggest re-reading what CF has written, he doesnt have all the answers, nor pretends to, but simply wants people to question things and make some _informed_ decisions. As I wish people would do too.

What, like actually paying their employees?

"there are some very interesting business practices going on there"
I spy with my little eye, interesting business practices starting with ..

All management refuses to wear underpants to meetings?

Employees are selected based on the size of thier knees ?

Salaries are only paid on the first Friday of the month, but if the month starts on a Monday, then its the second Friday, unless the month has less than 31 days in which case its Tuesday ?

On each working day at least one member of staff is required to dance naked on thier table thrusting their pelvis to the tune of "I like Krome Krome, we like Krome Krome"