The Australian games industry lacks the programmers it needs, according to Evelyn Richardson, CEO of the Games Developer Association of Australia.
Ben Palmer, Executive Producer at IR Gurus, agrees, telling radio station 3RRR that:
"Programmers are the one we are desperately short of, there is a global drought of Programmers. We are hiring from all over the globe, but so is everybody else."
Yeah, a lot of different articles are coming up about this aren't they.
A few problems:
1.) When the industry proclaims 'there's a drought' what it is really referring to is it's member companies lack of desire to hire people without 100(percent) of the skills they are looking for. This would be fair enough, if they were willing to pay for the privilege of having a skilled individual working for them. Unfortunately, many games companies are not.
2.) If a company is looking to hire people without a 100(percent) match to it's desired skill set, typically it also looks to cut remuneration drastically as a result.
3.) There's a distinct lack of companies willing to mentor within this industry. This feeds back into point 2 also. If you are unwilling to accept a certain lack of skills in a nascent industry, then perhaps you should rethink your strategy?
In the end, these are the choices you, as a company within this growing field, has to make.
1.) Widen your vision to include people that do NOT have 100(percent) of the skills you are looking for.
2.) Improve your quality of life - if you can't offer high levels of remuneration, then you have to bring something else to the table. Unfortunately, many companies treat games development like a factory worker environment.
3.) Consider a mentor program for new hires, and possibly, working with colleges that are offering courses in this field.
4.) Start supporting the industry you exist by giving something back to it.
If you are unwilling to offer competitive remuneration rates, equivalent QoL to standard ICT, mentoring and rational, well thought out development schedules, then do not be surprised when someone does not wish to work in this field.
Totally agree with u Anonymous. I'm glad I got extremely lucky and someone found me who was willing to mentor otherwise I'd be still kicking around wondering what I was going to do with myself!
Many companies are willing to take on juniors, one of the companies i used to work for loved students from AIE melbourne. Used to have them do work experience and picked off most of the guys who came as full time employees.
As a programmer with no industry experience, and not being a graduate from QANTM or AIE, I was actually kinda surprised how easily I got interviews and a job (in Melbourne). Maybe I got lucky though. I don't know what it's like elsewhere in Australia, but I get the impression that there are quite a few opportunities for junior programmers out there.
For experienced programmers, it looks even easier (because of the shortage). I agree that better QoL and remuneration are needed if we want to start snatching veteran programmers from other industries. Our industry's (well-deserved) reputation is a large hurdle in its growth.
Maybe I'm just an optimist though :-D
I agree with the article, but also with AC #2. At Firemint / ndWare we have had a serious drive to find more people (and its still going). Its *not* easy.
As unfortunate as it is, experienced people are always preferable. You just cannot afford to lose 50(percent) productivity from an experienced employee for several months as they bring an inexperienced coder up to speed.
However - apart from "experienced" people, we are also looking for "promising people". We just hired someone brand new from Brisbane - who has never worked before (ever), and doesn't have any form of uni degree. He does however, have experience making games in his spare time and was able to demonstrate his own self-taught programming skills.
(he gets a 3 month probation - and a chance to prove himself).
So it doesn't matter *that* much if you don't have industry experience - if you can demonstrate that you are capable enough to work on your own, and can make a game (even a simple one) - you should be able to score a position somewhere.
(we are also looking at bringing someone from France over - and have sponsered at least two people from OS so far that I know of).
@ #3 - Congrats, you're an exception to the rule!
@ #6 - Yes, I know industry members import talent from overseas, but you said it yourself, you are not willing to lose 50(percent) productivity in order to train someone (which I feel is a far too excessive quote). Having worked in the education sector, I can tell you that local companies, while willing to except interns, are not very flexible or involved in the actual training and development. At least, not hands on. Most reviewed course content from a very high level, but rarely made an appearance. You know what impression this gives? Of an industry that is only interested in what can be harvested in terms of human reasources, it eliminates the human quotient from the equation (this is a long term QoL issue). Best you could do is show these promising students that you actually care - unfortunately, it is typically an accurate representation as - most of the time - companies really do not care, nor have the time if they did to invest in such tasks.
The overall attitude of the industry is a destructive one. We have come to accept that tight deadines, crunch time, poorly managed projects etc are all the norm, and now people make excuses for it. This doesn't work when one looks from the outside. Why? Look around you, there are -many many- technological wonders engineered in -half- the time it takes *some* companies to produce one game, and many companies drive people almost to breaking point in order to do it. Indeed, the industry suffers from a relatively high burnout rate (average of 5 years apparantly, google it) and in many cases survives on a steady stream of young, naive talent willing to work their asses off in order to 'make it'. Some of these people end up getting taken advantage of by unscrupulous companies, getting paid well below average standard ICT junior rates in order to do so.
Really, what I am trying to say here (in an admittedly long winded fashion - apologies) is that if staff recruitment is such a problem for the industry, then that is because you are not competing. Older, more experienced people have other commitments. Families, loans, mortages and typically other interests as well - yes, even nerds develop other interests once then get older. More mature people need more incentive to work in the games industry, so you have to start projecting an aura of maturity in both your ability to plan schedules, the content that is produced (no Dorothy, Postal is not a mature title ;)) and the remuneration that is offered (not just in terms of money, but in lifestyle as well).
If you are asking someone that is 37 years old, who has a family and mortgage, to commit to your company 10 hour days for months on end, it simply isn't going to fly in many cases. There's much better things to be doing, like working for a company that provides 7.25 hour days, 45 minutes for lunch, a relaxed environment to work in, and very very attractive monetary compensation.
We need to clean up our act, otherwise we're in danger of becomming like the music industry, and nobody wants that.
Sorry to sound like such a pessimist, but these things really are a choice and I feel that much of the time we chose to make lives harder than it needs to be. :)
There are good programmers out there that the industry passes on and for what reasons who knows... It's up to the bosses to make those decisions. But they are out there, and they don't want to hire them. There's always an excuse. And while the bosses makes excuses those good programmers find more lucrative projects to work on anyway.
Why does the GDAA come up with this nonsense?
This industry makes more problems for itself than it realizes.
BTW I speak for the experienced programmer, who would love to be in the industry, but it's simply far better for me to make the money I do and have a better lifestyle where I have both time and money to buy and play games.
I totally agree with you AC #7 - I'm glad someone came out and said it.
I have had experiences with companies that are very willing to take on new people. The guy from ndWare/Firemint you have to understand are a very small company trying to establish their feet, the company I used to work for though were quite willing to take on students, have them sit down work on projects etc and often they benefitted from having these guys on board, since they would later become senior programmers in the company. That said they are a larger company and had the capacity to devote a little bit of time to these guys but surprisingly most of the guys who came through the AIE etc had a fair bit of up and go about them anyway.
A lot of this depends on what the goals of the company are. Some companies (like Krome, IR Gurus, and several others) are trying their hardest to expand as quickly as possible. For these companies, it makes sense to take on more untried juniors, that require more supervision and training. This is a good thing for everyone.
But for a company like Firemint, that is *intentionally* small and focused (we have about 22 employees now - up from about 12, 12 months ago) we simply can't do it. New programmers at our company are thrown right into the deep-end - working on multiple projects with relatively tight deadlines from day#1.
Much of this is due to the nature of mobile vrs console development - console titles may have an average project length of 18 months (example) vrs mobile titles for us (5-6 months).
(and a note to #11 - "very small company trying to establish their feet" - is completely wrong. We are one of the largest - if not the largest - mobile developer in Australia, in terms of projects, revenue, turnover and more. We are also working on a top-secret title that will make industry headlines when it is unveiled - (when the publisher decides to unveil it) - sometime next year).
Shams - I'm glad you push your own barrow. But you don't read what others write. You may have hired some 'do it at home' dude for coding, but I guarantee you also have him on an absolutely tiny salary, and still expect him to turn in the crunch hours free of charge. Thats what many are saying here about QoL and making the industry act responsibly so that there is suitable demand for experienced workers to want to get into gamedev.
As it is now, I don't think there are many experienced developers who can truly say working for a game company in Aus is good 'value'. By that, I mean like what was said before - equivalent wages for the hours worked and effort expended.
I know as a db coder I can earn nearly double the salary of an experienced game coder, and work normal 7.25 hrs.. with lunch.. and weekends. Thats the reality, and what #2, #7 and others have been trying to point out. There is pretty much ZERO incentive to work for a games company, with the exception to see your name in the credits (although most exp coders are over that by the end of their first project).
Take particular note of what #7 had to say - this person is pointing out that it doesn't have to be this way if the companies involved in the industry are more responsible.
I think too, gone are the days of royalties that often were shared to the employees, and even company options given to the employees as a commensurate measure for their hard work. Mind you I'm talking over a decade ago now :)
Its a pity.. but I don't see the situation changing much. While there are plenty of decent options for experienced coders.
I am a software engineer who gets 7.5 hr days, flexible working hours, training, and good money to develop web apps. I'd love to get into games dev and spend a fair bit of my time playing around with it as a hobby. The fact is that most jnr game positions pay less than what helpdesk staff with no university degree get where I work. The games industry needs to offer better conditions if it is going to attract and retain people. I have heard many stories of programmers spending less than 5 yrs in the industry and bailing for higher paid jobs with acceptable hours when they decide to start a family etc. If companies can't afford to pay staff and obtain enough resources so that the average week is less than 45hrs then they are trying to complete projects with inadequate resources. The fact that people want to get into game dev because games are their passion is exploited by companies at the expense of developers. The game industry needs to sit down and think for a bit - a multi-billion dollar industry that requires highly skilled staff (game dev is certainly more complex than web apps) but can't pay for or support staff....somethings up there.
This also isn't just happening in Programming, its happening to all the departments, Art, Design and even Quality Assurance.
I second that
Production anyone???
LOL, I think this thread had become a meeting for disgruntled game developers. ;)
Well said#13, #14, you saved me having to replying - wanted to, just couldn't be stuffed. As I said, game devs will give people are chance... on a pittance.
I find it ironic that the code or art monkey on the bottom rungs are the ones doing the hard yards, yet production is so chronically mismanaged it isn't funny. Unrealistic promises set to terrible deadlines. *shakes head*
I found that really depends on the company #18, worked for 3 games companies, one with very incompetent magement, the rest were okay with the current company the best. I tend to do a 9-5.30 job with little overtime. This is with Krome btw. With a 5.30-6.30 quake time of course :)
Its a pity there isn't a huge demand for programmers in Adelaide. A quick browse for programming positions in Adelaide always shows this.
It's a pity that so many game companies abuse their talent - but not all companies do that.
I'm a 38 year old programmer, with a wife and kids and I'm comfortably supporting my family and working 8 hour days in the game industry. Sure I could earn more in the real world, but I've been there and I much prefer the creative and challenging aspects of game dev. If you are working stupid hours with unpaid overtime, leave. Get a job at a game house which values their talent.
And yes, there is a shortage of experienced local talent. We've been having problems employing people and are having to resort to OS talent.
Thats good advice Zax and I always respect your opinion, I just wish it were always that easy.... but as you know from your experience at Ratbag that it is not always a possibility to just pack up and leave. The only reason the fourty odd Ratbag employees are not still working those stupid hours is because the company imploded and fell on its arse.
I am sure every studio has crunch. Thats not just in the games industry, all its older and younger sibling industries suffer the same problems. If you need something done by some arbitrary date, and its slipping, simple - must put more time in, I can guarantee your studio will crunch again. There is really no other option.
Good management will mean this happens less and less, but in such an imperfect industry (and lets face it, its not a production line.) We can not avoid it at the least every now and then.
Maybe the company falling on its arse was just a indication that everyone was getting overworked and tired from the bad management. Also from my own experience Ratbag didn't have the proper tools in place to speed up the development.
First up, it was 80 people at Ratbag when it folded. And yeah, you often can't just pack up and leave - the main reason I stayed at Ratbag for so long was that I had a family with family in Adelaide. You can't just push them around 'cos you're a little peeved with management.
All I can say is that I can see some good changes happening in the local industry with regards to management and QoL. Its not all doom and gloom.
you finding pandemic a step up for you Zax compared to Ratbag?
Definitely. Ratbag did have some good going for it, but was hamstrung (IMHO) by bad production/management (and morale in the last 9 months). Pandemic has the right idea when it comes to running a business that is a game devco. The talent here is also second to none - a lot have come from OS and have brought a lot of experience with them and the local talent here is well above average too. The interview process at Pandemic is the toughest I've been through and it ensures that only the cream get through (and me of course).
I loved Ratbag, but I'm glad I got forced from the nest to see how things should be done.
Sounds like Ratbag imploding was a good thing then. And not the loss that many thought it was, to the local industry ;).
Sort of. Ratbag was a really fun place to work. Most of my memories of the place are after work experiences :)
Does anyone know what Greg Siegele is doing now?
The Australian games industry does project an image that is not entirely professional.
I had the 'pleasure' of attending an interview at what will remain an unnamed Brisbane gamedev. I arrived on time for the interview, and was left waiting ~30 minutes for those who were to interview me would arrive. I can tell you, by then I was pretty much already over the idea of working for this company, but decided to continue regardless, rather than just walk out. And hey, they were probably doing something really really important right?
Wrong. After the 30 minutes had passed, my would-be interviewers returned brandishing Subway! This certainly takes precedence over being punctual for a job interview, for sure.
End of the story is that I was not offered the job, for whatever reason, and I'm sure it had something to do with my attitude. I fully acknowledge that I had trouble being as enthusiastic and as focussed as I would have liked at that point, due to the preceeding lack of professionalism. One might say that is not a terribly good excuse, but I had already been offered a very attractive non-games industry job elsewhere.
Unfortunately, it's not only this company that is this unprofessional.
I'm sure you can find unprofessional studios overseas as well.. it's relative there are some very professionally run studios here in australia and there some some wopping unprofessional ones as well..
Yes, we are all well aware that there are professional and unprofessional games development houses in Australia, that is obvious. The point people are trying to make is that is that the professional ones tend to be outnumbered, and the professional houses still pay poorly and expect long hours.
Not that poorly, and my experience most game houses are 9-5.30, the whole oh deer me work extraordinary long hours in a professional hour is starting to disappear.
Wage wise, you can expect 50-60k for a programmer, lead probably more,
May I ask what company you work for? I know people from three different games companies, I myself have worked in the games industry and NONE of these people achieved 50k+ for 'programmer' positions. Junior Programmer positions were 30->35k. I am told there is one company in Brisbane that pays juniors around the national IT junior rate, that is around 38-41k (Pandemic, I believe, also one of the hardest to get into).
Look, it's quite simple.. the local industry does not provide incentives for experienced developers, it doesn't provide comprehensive training and development programmes (mentoring etc) and misses a lot of the perks that standard ICT has. Combined with long hours (that the MAJORITY of people in games development work, perhaps you and the company you work for are the exception #33), poor project management and low remuneration incentives and general lack of professionalism makes for a skills shortage.
Your ONE exception does not mean that these problems exist. Indeed, they do exist, that is why they are being reported in the first place.
Sheesh, how hard is it?
IR Gurus paid at award wages for juniors, so like you said 38-41k. Pandemic as well..
In terms of higher end wages, I've worked for 3 games companies all willing to pay 50k+ for middle end programmers, juniors tend to find they get screwed at first but they go up quickly.
Krome pay well, Pandemic pay well, THQ yeah screw their juniors but pay well for midlevel programmers, IR Gurus pay award IT wages.
Ok, then we have covered a total of three companies that 'pay well' (somewhat relative statement, but we'll work from there). How many games companies are there in Australia?
A list of Australian devs can be found on Sumea
Wouldn't mind seeing a survey of current pay rates based on position held in the local industry (yeah, I know one of the American and Euro industries exists at Gamasutra)
You can pretty much count all the victorian ones paying IT Award wages, it was passed as law in 2005 that the federal IT Award was common law and they are forced to pay a minimum wage to their staff of 41k, and higher for more years of experience.
I ended up going overseas.. it would take forever for me to get a decent pay in australia... I'm now earning more than three times what I got at a large aussie dev house. I know quite a few aussies who have gone overseas saying that they reached the limit of what they could get in australia. I think this trend will continue..
I think you guys in australia have to live with ordinary pay if your going to have the aussie lifestyle in the sun.. otherwise move to the states or canada.. uk and start earning real money. What annoys me is the arrogance of some australian studios that think they can only hire the top people while paying them a below par wage. If you want the cream of the crop.. then you should pay for it! they also pay below par for overseas talent.. the only people I know who are going to australia from overseas are those that have already earnt the big bucks and want a nice lifestyle and good weather.
Have to admit I was tempted to go overseas myself until I joined a another local studio and got a more reasonable pay.
At that time I (at the beginning of the year) I was pretty jaded by my experiences with the particular studio I was working for, the studio I work for now has shown me its possible to have decent working conditions with perks in the games industry and its not something exclusive to overseas. I was pleasantly surprised.
jojo, what do you term as ordinary pay? How much is real money?
If you're a top programmer you can earn a lot more in games than in the general ICT. I'm a programmer and I know I can't step into a $60k job in games. ICT is a lot easier if you're willing to work on boring crap. The game industry relies on exceptional people and they get the big bucks. There are big bucks to be made in games, the reality is however that only the top guys get the dollars. ICT is full of mediocre people. They can get away with it, games can't.
You can of course become a top guy, just needs some hard work and persistence. It's even harder to get a job overseas, there's a lot more competition in the UK and the US. My friend started out at the bottom in a Melbourne based company and is now doing very well. He also says he loves the work which unfortunately I can't say about what I do. It's a myth that ICT isn't about long hours and sacrifice. From what my friend says, I'm actually working longer hours than he is. He's practically a 9 to 5're.
Yeah jumping from a regular programming job to a games programming position you'll probably be starting as a junor or mid-level programmer. I did that 2 years ago now.
real money is in the six figure range.. this is normal overseas.. I find it hard to believe that many programmers are earning the six figure salary in aus. Also.. I find working for a big company overseas that they give very healthy stock options and benefits in comparison to australia. I won't talk about my self.. but my friend worked for sony and his game did quite well.. for a year he received 18k every two months in royalties. I personally know some fellow employees who have been with the company i work at for about 8 years and were given shares during that time for performing well.. they all have houses paid for by selling these shares..
Then times must be a-changing. I know of a number of programmers getting 6 figure salaries and many more that are close to 6 figures. The local industry is starting to realise that they do have to pay good money for top talent, and so they are doing it. The lack of local expereince (thanks to all the people getting work overseas) means that if you are local and have experience you'll be treated well. I'm also happy to be working at a company that offers good stock options and royalties (that actually do get paid out).
I'll be the first to admit that the Aus game industry was in the dark ages up until recently, but I'm seeing positive changes at a number of devcos.
None of this means you can't still earn more in general ICT. Lack of professionalism is still rife, the industry still produces largely b*nal and repetitive content which does nothing to enhance it's prestige, making it a socially unattractive industry to work in (your nerd buddies don't count).
There's more, but suffice to say: the games industry needs to take a holistic approach to recruitment and make up for it's poor reputation.
I can't believe it actually tried to filter 'b*a*nal'.. *shrug*
@Gossip King.
The games industry relies on exceptional people? Are you kidding me? I will grant you, some of us have the wonderful ability to program and/or create artwork that is honed over years of practice, but don't kid yourself, many of the people I meet and work with have and do have personalities of a slab of butter. Arrogant and overcompensating for a lack of success in the rest of their lives.
If you think games technology is anywhere -near- to the types of rigorous engineering people go through to develop medical equipment, aeronautical software, or even complicated B2B apps you're delluded. What percentage of games are released incomplete and/or buggy?
Get over yourself.
#46, of course you can earn more money elsewhere. If you want money, work in realestate or become a plumber.
Way to miss the point Zax.
The Australian games industry is still learning how to walk. Most local studios are very young and have been, for the most part, struggling to survive. Many of the companies that get past their first few titles are those that have had good business management rather than good game direction. This leads to b*nal repetitive games. But at least you have a job in a field you like and a chance to work on something that may be interesting in the future. Or you at least get some experience so that you can hop to a studio that is more professional and financially rewarding.
Sure, all the local studios could suddenly change tack and begin working on creative, innovative ground breaking titles. They probably won't get funding (publishers suck as far as vision goes) and even if they do, the market sucks and its unlikely to sell large amounts. If you want to keep your business going you need to keep the money coming in, which for most studios, means working on mundane games. At least until you have enough money or balls to try something new (and then you fold).
As the local industry matures and gains in security we'll see more interesting titles being released. Pandemic is a good example of this - it has money behind it and so can afford to produce games based on its own IP. Very few companies world wide have that freedom. Other companies use their earnings to grow the company so that they can produce more games so they can grow more and eventually cover the earth until the day comes when they challenge EA in a clash of titans that will shake the very foundations of the earth. But I digress.
As far as being a socially unattractive industry - to whom?
If I'm still missing the point, you'll need to explain things in simpler terms. I'm just a poor, socially unattractive games programmer :)
It's good to see that australia is improving in terms of salaries.. It will never fully match overseas though. I think programmers in australia will need to be paid well to keep them.. on the art side.. i wonder how many artists in Aus are on more than 100k?
Any one heard of teh cost of living.
The reason you get paid more in say San Francisco is you cant afford to liev there if you dont. My god people learn what relative means