Adelaide journalist slams Australian games industry

Yes, but game dev is just so darn sexy - I mean to say, making friggin games is much more rewarding than a boring desk job...

I hope you never have to write any kind of submission.

making games is rewarding n lotta fun for sure. but most ppl lookin to get into the industry look past the hard work involved in a studio. its not jus brains n a degree in software engg or art... its passion, cud mean even giving up playing games... u might wanna get used to having less than 3 hrs of sleep every single day of the week before u even think of this field

He is really not a happy journalist. Perhaps someone got knocked back for their dream job ;-).

Or has a World of Warcraft addicted kid.

or IS a world of warcraft addicted kid who got knocked back for his dream job ;-)
(at either tantalus or infinite interactive by the sound of it, since he gives them both a good ragging)

seriously though - how much has he "researched" the games industry if he thinks that infinite and tantalus are 2 of australia's biggest employers.
tantalus... maybe
but infinite is small - i love their games - probably one of the best devs in the country quality-wise - but they wouldnt even have 40 people out there im sure

One Melbourne programmer said "you put in the long hours, in part out of enthusiasm, but also because you'd look like a 'quitter' if you left work at 5pm. Fifty to sixty hour weeks are the norm and overtime is a rarity".

I've been in the industry for about 3 and a half years now, both in Australia and the UK; mostly in programming, but also in QA and now in production and I've had to do overtime on maybe 20 or so seperate occasions, and many of those times I got time in lieu for that.

If you're normally putting in fifty to sixty hour weeks and you're not one of the very senior staff or company directors then something is wrong with the way your projects are managed. If you are doing that and you're not being adequately compensated then move on, it's a competitive industry and if you're good you'll find work elsewhere; you don't deserve to be treated like that and it's important to realise that. The employees are the companies best asset and if they don't realise that then the company won't be going anywhere. You'll know you're in a good company if they're treating their employees right because they'll be the ones to retain the talent in the long term.

I don't agree that if you're a senior normally putting in 50-60 hour weeks it necessarily means something is being managed wrong. Personally, I put in the time to try to minimize the time that anybody else has to do - that's part and parcel of the job for me, doing whatever you can to reduce the overtime others have to do (whether that's planning or doing stuff yourself to help out).

As for the original article. It was a 10 second read then I think forgettable - though I guess that may be mainly because I'm sick of all the negativity.

I guess senior was the wrong way to put it. It's usually people with a vested interest in the company that put in the long hours, because they have a direct payoff for the company doing well. Is this something company owners should consider if they want longer hours and extra effort for staff?

Also maybe I was too hard on the management. Some games companies have staff that create a culture of long hours, this is how EA got off the rails though... when it started to become "expected". I remember talking to a senior artist who worked for EA and he said that at the time they were all so passionate they had no problems putting in the extra hours, but this culture developed so that when a lot of these passionate people left the new guys were left with a long-hours-culture they weren't a part of building and didn't understand. Although this was eventually exacerbated by management who were used to this and treated it as the norm.

this journalist is right in some respects though.. i know many people here are going to slam him because we all work in the industry and naturally defend it. but lets be honest schools are promoting this industry to young people like its this amazing industry that has no problems etc.. they are not informing them of the realities of game development and also the talent that is required to really make it and be secure. It's always the same, you get some graduate from school who is so eager and has these stars in their eyes only to realise after a few months that game development isn't this fantasy world they imagined.

That's a natural outcome of paid degrees. When schools have to sell courses, of course they will make them attractive. I'd be surprised if they don't upsell other industries that they provide "training" for as well, but games would be a particularly easy sale!

I think defence force recruiting is the worst offender of painting a rosy picture when trying to attract new recruits. As a parallel to this article they also have a game that helps them in this area (America's Army).

Interesting point. As perhaps one of the most challenging jobs an individual can do (we'll train you but when it comes down to it we're training you to stand in harms way) in an age where comfort and cash are in so many ways above all else, recruiting in defence necessarily needs to be "rosy". The pay is generally poor for the hours, there's often little that's warm and cosy and you can be sent anywhere at any time or, even worse, sent nowhere all the time. The great thing about defence recruiting campaigns is they have awesome hardware to play with.

Never the less, recruiting to make a game for defence force recruiting is a much more attractive offer :-). In fact, lets replace defence with a virtual defence and recruitment covers both bases. Sorted!

I recommend everyone posting here take their comments over to the original article as well.

People I keep saying it over & over again. The only people & company's that will benefit from a tax rebate Are the one's with North American accent's. If you get what I mean?

How many games do you thing sell in Australia dude? Honestly, of course a tax consession will benefit overseas investors, not just American though (as if it matters). they will invest more heavily on bigger titles and be able to pocket some of the production costs. the developer benefits and so does the publisher.

I posted this on the article too:

The point of this article seems to be to make the fledgling video games industry in Australia look like a half a**ed bunch of con men who want to take advantage of young idealistic students and get the government to pay their way.

In fact the vast majority of companies treat their employees excellently and while pay rates are low this is unfortunately the norm internationally and prospective employees joining the industry are well aware of this fact.

As to the campaign to get the same treatment as the film industry, why not? Is the argument against it just because it is perceived as a children's medium with no "cultural" value? Tax breaks are a common method of getting new industries and technologies off the ground and the games industry should get similar treatment to film and other new technologies. H*ll, international film productions get an offset of 12.5% on the total cost of production in Australia (link removed due to restriction :S).

As to the statistics quoted from The Australian Financial Review, firstly why the focus on online games? Single player and multiplayer gaming on the same console are still a far more common past times (being still a more reliable good experience). And what of the "average age" quoted? The average gamer age is somewhere in the mid to late twenties (we can afford to buy the hardware and most of us don't have kids to take our attentions). Google "average gamer age" and you will get a page full of results arguing against the figure of 19 years (perhaps this is online players?). I dislike this limp attribution of figures, which article, what "trade magazines"?.

And the sad case of Auran and Fury? Why put the dumps ("the less than shining example") on a company attempting to break Australia into the lucrative MMO market? Sure it failed, but why use this as a case to discourage the industry in Australia?

I really could go on (what of the export market? attraction of international investment?) but why when the author has obviously judged us unworthy? This really seems more like a rant than a well informed and researched article.

For the record I work for a games company, I am smack bang in the middle of the main gaming demographic (male, mid twenties).

"If the Government uses my tax dollars to give the games industry a 30-40 per cent rebate, then the Government should seek a share or a dividend from the investment. In short, I would expect the intellectual property to be partly owned by the Government."

He's an idiot. Does the Govt own part of the films it funds? No, it supports the industry, thus creating more jobs, thus creating a healthier economy in new fields. It's not very complex, but he seems to have missed it completely.

Its funny, people don't mind us spending our tax dollars on public art galleries that support creativity and culture but for some reason they cry foul when we want to support an industry that in the next decade will easily eclipse film for gross revenues, employment opportunities and has a good chance of increasing our standing as a key player in the lucretive entertainment industry.

Makes a whole bunch of sense doesn't it, give it all to film, they've been doing a bang up job so far, yeah we have had some success but most of them then leave the country and take there talent, experience and profit with them, we currently act as a fund for training employees for the Hollywood talent scouts.

not too mention a great deal of the nay sayers just happen to be people who might have to share there funding with us such as film and TV.
You guys had your chance to take on Hollywood, how about playing fair and letting us have a shot now hey.

Pretty much. The Australian film industry had the Saw series in the palm of its hand and let the Americans have it. They ran with Kenny though. And they deserve any credibility at all?

his from adelaide, what do you expect

I salute Tom Crago

and guess what?
I have a job interview with a games company tomorrow! haha

If large international publishers can use these funds in competition with local firms, then you can all but kiss the locally owned industry goodbye. Just like what has happened in Canada. Unfortunately it's very hard to setup these incentive schemes so they cannot be exploited by overseas companies.

A scheme like the 40% tax rebate will mean that local companies will be competing with large international publishers for a limited supply of talent. When the government funds dry up, the publishers move on to soak up tax dollars in another country and there's nothing left behind. That's not how we develop our local industry.

Local industry RIP. Let's hope this doesn't go through.

local industry.. who cares.. i'm sick of this talk. The FACT is that no tax scheme or whatever will help the australian games industry.. aus is on a friggin island with no financial muscle to even contemplate competing.. so forget this trying to save the local industry talk. Listen, EA's vancouver studio in burnaby alone employs more people than the ENTIRE gaming industry in Australia? get my drift.. fine have your stupid local industry .. but expect to have your 40 people companies trying to make it and then end up going Kaput after a while from lack of funding. Australia needs foreign investment whether it likes it or not. Can you imagine the benefit of say an EA and a UBIsoft setting up shop and employing over 2000 more people in aus, it would make a huge difference to the industry and would entice graduates from university to think seriously about games a career. Ya they could just leave, but look at Canada.. how many have left? none have left, EA Canada has been there since the beginning ... over 10 years ago.

You should care. There's no point making profits for overseas companies, you need to get those profits into Australia. You need to own the intellectual property that is generated and keep it in the country. You don't care because you have other interests outside of Australia. You don't have Australia's best interests in mind. You want Australia to just end up being a big pool of cheap talent for Publishers to rape. Of course you don't care. More to the point you have a lot to gain from it.

Publishers will stay while the government pays them to stay. That's not a healthy vibrant industry. That's publishers with a gun to the government's head saying keep paying us or else. When the incentives dry up, the publishers move on then what happens to your 2000 strong team. EA is still in Canada because they are paid to stay there.

so your saying that the australian games industry is healthy? hahah get real mate! so all countries like canada should look at australia as an example? now you are full of it and out of touch with reality. So you don't think that the government has paid to help krome stay afloat or even the other companies?? heh well think again.. I know for a fact that Krome and other developers like MicroForte have been given generous payouts by the government to help them keep afloat, i remember Ratbag had the same situation. Look I do care about the australian industry, i think its not growing fast enough and is going to be left behind.. okay .. insert tax scheme.. WHERE is the talent going to come from? from some AIE and Qantum program? how can local companies find 100 person teams to work on AAA games in aus?? its not going to happen because the talent and experience does not exist!!! what big companies bring is money and investment, they can afford to get the best people from all around the world to help train the local people , they also help attract university students who would usually otherwise opt for a different industry than games. I don't blame them, what sort of future is in the australian games industry at the moment.. doesn't look that great in my opinion.

You're talking complete shit.

if I am, then come back with a good argument to what i just wrote, you can't so you just say i'm talking shit! ha

"if I am, then come back with a good argument to what i just wrote, you can't so you just say i'm talking shit! ha"

You want a comeback? Sounds more like you just want an argument, not a debate my friend.

Our industry is obviously not comparable to the big wigs in the US and Europe and anyone who says it is is living in a delusion, however it's by no means dead in the water either, it is quite healthy for it's size and market position.

"... I know for a fact that Krome and other developers like MicroForte have been given generous payouts by the government to help them keep afloat..."

I think you are embellishing the amount of help the government gives local industry, I'd love for you to produce some actual (factual) sources for your information, maybe then we can take you seriously.

If you want people to stop saying you are full of shit then give forward proof, until then your just going to sound like another disgruntled industry casualty.

Both Krome and Microforte have been given grants and this has been publicised in the local papers. If I was able to find the articles again i could provide the link for you to see. Anyways I'm no disgruntled industry casualty I am just someone that is not blindfolded like you are when it comes to seeing the australian games industry for what it is and where it needs to go. People are not saying i'm full of shit, its just you buddy hahah.. but it's normal for people in the aussie games industry to get all defensive and that is what is happening here..

US and Europe will always be bigger yes, but Canada is different. It has a similar population to Aus and a similar Tax system. Also 10 years ago the australian games industry was bigger than canada's, now canada makes australia look like a small startup. Obviously they are doing something right, and australian needs to learn from that. Australia is well positioned as a possible hub to outsource talent through asia so its comparable to Canada which uses its position next to the US to it's advantage.

Sorry to make you feel less important in my life but that was actually my first post to you.

Which means at least one person did say you were full of shit (which I don't condone btw) and I only put forward that in order for that knee jerk reaction to stop you needed to provide proof, a fairly reasonable request given your posts, no?

So back to your post.
Maybe they have been given grants, I'm not disputing that, I actually have no idea, I was disputing the reasons and amount and also why it's such a terrible thing, our film, television, arts and music industries all gain access to government funding, do you suggest we strip it from them also?
The reason for these grants and amount is unknown to me and I haven't yet seen you deliver anything to suggest it was anything other than above board.

Also you said these grants were to "keep them afloat", I doubt it and I especially doubt it was stated as such in these articles.
I couldn't imagine either of those companies needs to be bailed out, Krome, the local punching bag, while not always the hero of the local industry has never been short of cash and Microforte must make a bundle from their big world licenses.

I will agree with you 100% that our local industry needs a swift kick in the jacksie if it wants to gain on the international markets or sustain what it has but it's far from the dead cesspool you seem intent on portraying.

I actually see your point about larger overseas business bringing in money and investment however most of the profit is going to go right back overseas, the biggest benefit is to sustain and improve growth and employment if they became competitive. Thats a big ask for overseas investors and if they decide to pack up and leave then the industry would really be in trouble.

I don't know too much about the Canadian games industry but it does sound like a decent test case for us to look at, if you have any info about it post it up, I for one would love to look at it.

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"...Anyways I'm no disgruntled industry casualty I am just someone that is not blindfolded like you are when it comes to seeing the Australian games industry for what it is and where it needs to go. ..."
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If you say so, you just seem to have a lot of venom, a common response fro mthose who feel hurt by the industry.
I would expect someone who actually wanted to help instigate positive change to be more diplomatic and give solutions, you just seem to be attacking and laughing, while you may be completely correct your points are going to fall on deaf ears if you continue to put them a cross is such a manner.

Of course we get defensive, I for one love my job and find the people in the industry to be worthy of respect, yes we have a long way to go but does that mean we should all be subjected to your blanket attacks?

I'm also not blindfolded to the issues, we have many issues, some pressing others dangerous to ignore and if not dealt with we may have real problems in the future, I unlike you however see hope and want to work "with" my industry to effect change.

So instead of just shitting in everyones pie how about you list some of your solutions?

How about these of my head:

- Instead of the tax rebate going to the industry developers maybe it could be held in trust for say publishing smaller local titles.

- It could be used for adversing our services OS or for infrastructure.

- Alternatively the money could go towards developers who work with the training institutes to help fix our lagging course structure, if your company sends some of its leads to do lectures and seminars you are repaid and to sweeten the deal possibly gain rewards.

- It could be used to send more delegates and staff OS for training and seminars to really get a feel for what other s are doing first hand.

- Smaller startups may be able to get tax breaks for equipment, leasing of office space, rebates on training so there staff can work and learn and improve.

There are many good uses for said rebate, giving it straight to the developer would not necessarily be my solution but saying we are dead is just naive, uncreative, immature and reactionary.

I look forward to hearing your solutions.

After a quick search on the net you can find the articles, would link them but this comment section does not allow it.

Key words in google:

Krome government grant

Microforte Allen & Buckeridge grant

Kromes 1.7 Million grant.
Considering they've doubled in size, opened 2 new companies (saving one I might add), employed a lot of new staff, many juniors, I'd say it was a good investment in our industry.

Microforte.
It seems they acquired grants for development of there technology, I believe from a government accredited body, many other industries shared in similar grants also.

Seems quite transparent, there is nothing under handed or for that matter unfair with the allocation of these grants, one could easily have been instrumentally in helping an Australian owned company go forward to noticeably help growth in the local industry and the other has enabled technology that is being bought from quite a few OS licensee's.

Can't see many negatives to my tax dollars being spent there.

Hmm, 1.7 million dollars. I don't think that would be enough to keep afloat a company of any real size for very long in this industry.
Just do the math on salaries alone for even 100 people ( much less 300+ of Krome ). What, 4 months worth, forget about console hardware licensing, software, pc's, offices, travel, taxes, insurance ...,

Drop in the bucket really - more a political contribution to reduce unemployment.

"So you don't think that the government has paid to help krome stay afloat or even the other companies?? heh well think again.. I know for a fact that Krome and other developers like MicroForte have been given generous payouts by the government to help them keep afloat,"

getting a handout because you're failing and getting and R&D grant (which is available to ANY local company doing R&D) are two different things. In Krome's case whatever the gov put in, Krome had to match dollar for dollar.

also the local industry is strong in canada, saying that canada said goodbye to a local industry is just stupid. you look at vancouver and montreal and both places have a very strong base of companies, both small and big.

the games industry in australia is all hot air and full of shit

You must fit right in.

You'll make more money in the Financial industry or even many other industries as a programmer or business analyst, tester or manager. I therefore recommend that course of action unless you want to start your own company where you will truly be able to do what you want. Having said that anyone interested in starting a 4 or 5 person company focused initially on doing AI for games.

Tell him he's dreaming,
or just plain dumb :)