AGDC 2005 Entry price changes

Isn't it a wonderful state of affairs, when, in they eyes of one of the games industry's own award-winning graduates, much of the games industry is assumed guilty until proved innocent? What could have led this graduate to such an opinion?

How much, since they were both created, has the AIE paid the GDAA?

While we are talking about the rules of the GDAA what do people think about these ones?

quote:
10. Disciplining of members
(1) Where the committee is of the opinion that a member -
(a) has persistently refused or neglected to comply with a provision of these rules; or
(b) has persistently and wilfully acted in a manner prejudicial to the interests of the Association, the committee may, by resolution -
(c) expel the member from the Association; or
(d) suspend the member from such rights and privileges of membership of the Association as the committee may determine for a specified period.
(2) A resolution of the committee under subrule (1) is of no effect unless the committee, at a meeting held not earlier than 14 days and not later than 28 days after service on the member of a notice under subrule (3), confirms the resolution in accordance with this rule.
(3) Where the committee passes a resolution under subrule (1), the secretary shall, as soon as practicable, cause a notice in writing to be served on the member -
(a) setting out the resolution of the committee and the grounds on which it is based;
(b) stating that the member may address the committee at a meeting to be held not earlier than 14 days and not later than 28 days after service of the notice;
(c) stating the date, place and time of that meeting; and
(d) informing the member that the member may do either or both of the following:
(i) attend and speak at that meeting;
(ii) submit to the committee at or prior to the date of that meeting written representations relating to the resolution.
(4) Subject to section 50 of the Act, at a meeting of the committee mentioned in subrule (2), the committee shall -
(a) give to the member mentioned in subrule (1) an opportunity to make oral representations;
(b) give due consideration to any written representations submitted to the committee by that member at or prior to the meeting; and
(c) by resolution determine whether to confirm or to revoke the resolution of the committee made under subrule (1).
(5) Where the committee confirms a resolution under subrule (4), the secretary shall, within 7 days after that confirmation, by notice in writing inform the member of that confirmation and of the member's right of appeal under rule 11.
(6) A resolution confirmed by the committee under subrule (4) does not take effect-
(a) until the expiration of the period within which the member is entitled to appeal against the resolution where the member does not exercise the right of appeal within that period; or
(b) where within that period the member exercises the right of appeal, unless and until the Association confirms the resolution in accordance with subrule 11 (4).
11. Right of appeal of disciplined member
(1) A member may appeal to the Association in general meeting against a resolution of the committee which is confirmed under subrule 10 (4), within 7 days after notice of the resolution is served on the member, by lodging with the secretary a notice to that effect.
(2) Upon receipt of a notice under subrule (1), the secretary shall notify the committee which shall convene a general meeting of the Association to be held within 21 days after the date on which the secretary received the notice or as soon as possible after that date.
(3) Subject to section 50 of the Act, at a general meeting of the Association convened under subrule (2)-
(a) no business other than the question of the appeal shall be transacted;
(b) the committee and the member shall be given the opportunity to make representations in relation to the appeal orally or in writing, or both; and
(c) the members present shall vote by secret ballot on the question of whether the resolution made under subrule 10 (4) should be confirmed or revoked.
(4) If the meeting passes a special resolution in favour of the confirmation of the resolution made under subrule 10 (4), that resolution is confirmed.

quote:Isn't it a wonderful state of affairs, when, in they eyes of one of the games industry's own award-winning graduates, much of the games industry is assumed guilty until proved innocent? What could have led this graduate to such an opinion?

i'm not entirly sure what you mean by this, what do you mean by "much of the games industry is assumed guilty until proved innocent"?

quote:Originally posted by lorien

Isn't it a wonderful state of affairs, when, in they eyes of one of the games industry's own award-winning graduates, much of the games industry is assumed guilty until proved innocent? What could have led this graduate to such an opinion?

How much, since they were both created, has the AIE paid the GDAA?

While we are talking about the rules of the GDAA what do people think about these ones?

quote:
10. Disciplining of members
(1) Where the committee is of the opinion that a member -
(a) has persistently refused or neglected to comply with a provision of these rules; or
(b) has persistently and wilfully acted in a manner prejudicial to the interests of the Association, the committee may, by resolution -
(c) expel the member from the Association; or
(d) suspend the member from such rights and privileges of membership of the Association as the committee may determine for a specified period.
(2) A resolution of the committee under subrule (1) is of no effect unless the committee, at a meeting held not earlier than 14 days and not later than 28 days after service on the member of a notice under subrule (3), confirms the resolution in accordance with this rule.
(3) Where the committee passes a resolution under subrule (1), the secretary shall, as soon as practicable, cause a notice in writing to be served on the member -
(a) setting out the resolution of the committee and the grounds on which it is based;
(b) stating that the member may address the committee at a meeting to be held not earlier than 14 days and not later than 28 days after service of the notice;
(c) stating the date, place and time of that meeting; and
(d) informing the member that the member may do either or both of the following:
(i) attend and speak at that meeting;
(ii) submit to the committee at or prior to the date of that meeting written representations relating to the resolution.
(4) Subject to section 50 of the Act, at a meeting of the committee mentioned in subrule (2), the committee shall -
(a) give to the member mentioned in subrule (1) an opportunity to make oral representations;
(b) give due consideration to any written representations submitted to the committee by that member at or prior to the meeting; and
(c) by resolution determine whether to confirm or to revoke the resolution of the committee made under subrule (1).
(5) Where the committee confirms a resolution under subrule (4), the secretary shall, within 7 days after that confirmation, by notice in writing inform the member of that confirmation and of the member's right of appeal under rule 11.
(6) A resolution confirmed by the committee under subrule (4) does not take effect-
(a) until the expiration of the period within which the member is entitled to appeal against the resolution where the member does not exercise the right of appeal within that period; or
(b) where within that period the member exercises the right of appeal, unless and until the Association confirms the resolution in accordance with subrule 11 (4).
11. Right of appeal of disciplined member
(1) A member may appeal to the Association in general meeting against a resolution of the committee which is confirmed under subrule 10 (4), within 7 days after notice of the resolution is served on the member, by lodging with the secretary a notice to that effect.
(2) Upon receipt of a notice under subrule (1), the secretary shall notify the committee which shall convene a general meeting of the Association to be held within 21 days after the date on which the secretary received the notice or as soon as possible after that date.
(3) Subject to section 50 of the Act, at a general meeting of the Association convened under subrule (2)-
(a) no business other than the question of the appeal shall be transacted;
(b) the committee and the member shall be given the opportunity to make representations in relation to the appeal orally or in writing, or both; and
(c) the members present shall vote by secret ballot on the question of whether the resolution made under subrule 10 (4) should be confirmed or revoked.
(4) If the meeting passes a special resolution in favour of the confirmation of the resolution made under subrule 10 (4), that resolution is confirmed.

My last word on this Lorien, try searching Google for "10. Disciplining of members" and you will find that this is the standard text for most associations in Australia.

Industry machinations aside, after making my previous post it occurred to me that an actual trade show / expo wouldn?t be that bad an idea. My reasoning for this is as follows:

The AGDC is affected in quality as its motives are not clear in regards to being a conference, much of it is operating under the guise of being a conference but for the most part, it is a marketing exercise by the local and international developers and publishers. By establishing an event that is a trade show, about marketing yourself to the local and international community, that is about networking, what should remain is a conference that is separate to this and remains a conference foremost ? conferences are about disseminating experiences and practical strategies for success, not blatant marketing.

At this trade event, you have the expo, perhaps something trying a bit more to be E3 for our region ? though there are several events that do this already, but don?t focus on Australia and New Zealand. It should have ?talks? like E3, but these are your ?How to become a developer for the PSP? and ?How to build an MMOG in 1 hour!? ? in other words where companies market their services and products to other developers and to publishers. Also, this event should have a number of ?networking? opportunities in the form of developer parties and the like. The pricing should have a number of tiers so that students can attend the expo and maybe a ?breaking-into-the-biz? party where they can mingle with developers. And the other parties / functions like the award dinner, should be developer only as well as press, and the ?conference? element should be geared towards developers as they can afford it and it is aimed towards them so that they can get to grips with what services and products are out there.

Basically the whole event should be modeled on the likes of E3 ? just on a smaller scale.

I personally do not think that Australia needs more than one conference a year ? as well as one trade-event ? at the very best if we were to have another conference, I think that it would be best if it were in another city like Brisbane or some where more neutral like Sydney ? that way interstate developers do not have to go always to Melbourne for these shindigs. But personally, I do think that one conference in one city will unify developers more instead segregate Australia further, after all, we are a small group compared to the rest of the world.

Again personally, I would prefer the resources that went towards the AGDC, to go towards Free Play, and for Free Play to become our yearly conference of choice. Include the best of the AGDC without compromising the ?open? environment of the conference, and, without undermining its cheap entry costs. Basically, to have more international speakers, better marketing of the event, perhaps more talks with another half-day or day added to the conference, but real talks ? not companies selling services and products.

And most of all as a criticism of Free Play, as much as it is good to vent your frustrations, another year of developers whining about the industry and telling their horrid tales of working in the industry, will become a real bore and undermine the ?credibility? of the conference. I think these talks should go through a process of quality control, so that developers just don?t whine about their experiences ? and hopefully approach their whining in a more constructive manner ? but also offer solutions as to how the problems of our local and global industry could actually be resolved, or at the very least, where we should start looking and what we should start doing to achieve that end.

BTW: the trade-show should not be misleading and use the word ?conference? in its title, but something more like ?expo,? or ?show.? That would make people annoyed ;).

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire

quote:Isn't it a wonderful state of affairs, when, in they eyes of one of the games industry's own award-winning graduates, much of the games industry is assumed guilty until proved innocent? What could have led this graduate to such an opinion?

i'm not entirly sure what you mean by this, what do you mean by "much of the games industry is assumed guilty until proved innocent"?

I mean I LOVE the way industry people willingly show that there's no conflict of interests in this mess by answering simple questions...

IMHO the message from this thread concerning price changes for a conference run by an institution that was founded by a games company where no-one seems to know who created things is fairly plain. Perhaps it hasn't been heard yet(!).

Ok - I might be missing something, but AFAIK nothing's being hidden from people here...

* AGDC is run by IE Events, which is part of AIE (source: http://www.agdc.com.au/)
* GDAA "works closely with" the AIE (source: http://www.gdaa.com.au/about/index.html)

The GDAA makes their annual report available on the web, and if you are a GDAA member, you should be able to go along to the annual general meeting and also view any financial records. They have no obligation to tell non-members their financial details.

However, the GDAA is also a non-profit organisation with a charter under the Associations Incorporation Act and Regulations, meaning that people with axes to grind have legitimate opportunities to make their arguments heard and even to make changes. If they actually want to DO something they can even approach other members looking for support to be elected to the committee.

Now, the prices are certainly expensive, but not particularly unusual for a proferssional conference... Whether the speakers and conference is valuable and useful or not is fairly unrelated to how or why it's being run IMHO.

Since this thread has turned into a few different discussions I would like to try and address my thoughts on all of them.

AGDC - This year I know that I will not be going. Not due to $ or anything else. For one I just had no plans to go. Second, I was not as impressed with the line-up this year as I have been in years past.

My first year at AGDC I was decently impressed with the speaker line-up. There were two big keynote speakers as well as having people like Doug Church in on the last day speaking in a little room. What impressed me the most was that the keynotes that year (Ray & Lars) were both very friendly and wonderful to talk to.

The second year I was at AGDC I thought it got even better. There was some troubles with keynotes pulling out but they still got in one pretty decent one (Ensamble guy iirc). Along with the one major keynote there was a handfull of "smaller" US developers that came. These developers were amazing to talk to. Sherri Graner Ray, Noah Falstein, Jason Della Roca, and (forgot his name) but he worked on ths MS MMO and then went over to mobile develpment.

As for last year, my third year at AGDC, I enjoyed Bill Roper as keynote but did not manage to make it to many talks. I felt that the talks were good, but not really major intrest for me. I had a lot of fun but I think that was due to the company of the people more than the event itself (goofy Qld people!).

So the things I wish AGDC had this year, as it did in years past, was a good line of up international developers that, while not keynote worthy, were wonderful to put in on smaller talks and get to sit in on panels. Aside from the "product" people I feel that is lacking this year, and was lacking to an extent last year. The other important thing is getting in bigger speakers who will mingle and talk with people. This was lacking with Jason Rubens this last year, imo.

Freeplay - The biggest thing I could really complain about with the first year of Freeplay was the location of the event. The building was not the best, and I know that it was addressed in the second year. Aside from that, I think they did a wonderful job of getting in some big keynote speakers who had passion. I remember Harvey Smith took a group of us away to give his presentation over again. That impressed me to no end.

The other thing about Freeplay is how it differs from AGDC. Right now AGDC is more of the "corporate" games event of Australia. By this I mean in general it is designed for the business. Freeplay is very much about the individual and the small fry. Because of this difference you found that people were more willing to speak out (rant?) about the games industry. I think Freeplay became a place where people were not afraid to speak out because it wasn't designed for their boss, but for the worker itself.

As for what GDAA can do - I hope that it is something that could become a bit more akin to GDC. You get the freedom of speach that Freeplay has, as well as getting in some really unique international speakers.

Personally I'd love to see a panel that would run for a couple of hours about 1) Quality of Life that had bosses as well as someone like Jason Della Roca there, 2) Sex in Games that had some publishers and Sherri Graner Ray and Brenda Brathwaite. I think the IGDA has some really intersting special interest areas that could be used to help define what is talked about.

I would like to see a conference where people are not afraid to speak out, but to also look out into the audience and see that their boss is there listening.

At the end tho - I think some of the nitty gritty topics would be great to see addressed from both a local and international prespective and that they are given more than just 50 minutes so that people can really get into it. Also, there could be some interesting workshop style brain-storming sessions on some of these topics where small teams go away and come back with feedback. Again, not a 50 minute session.

Anyway - that's my 2 cents on AGDC, Freeplay, and where GDAA could fit in.

After the inaugural conference in Sydney there was talk of alternating between Brisbane and Melbourne for future events, which I thought was fair considering the roughly equal proportions of developers in each of those cities... as we all know, this has failed to eventuate.

When (if ever) Brisbane is given the opportunity to host the conference then members from my company will attend.
I don't believe Queensland developers should have to wear all the additional costs of transportation and accommodation year after year.

Red is right. After attending all of the conferences, after Sydney there was talk of it alternating between the capitals. I think Melbourne had over the last few years was because of 'some' funding by the government. Thought it may have happened this year with the Commonwealth Games coming.

I think it would be nice for a change for it to Queensland. And thats coming from a Mexican.

But wherever it is, not everyone will be able to attend, we are a big brown country with nasty fuel prices, and I as yet haven't bought my yacht.

And in terms of the conferences, I guess you really want to look at who each of the conference is aimed towards, which may explain prices. I like the AEAF however, and wish I could go to Sydney.

None of us will be attending AGDC this year. None of us have attended any AGDC yet but holding it or any of the others in Brisbane would give us greater incentive to attend. Plans have changed greatly overnight [:O]

considering that brisbane and melbourne repesent the major centres of development in australia, alternating between them every second year would probably serve both comunities fairly well.

What CynicalFan said above pretty much sums up in greated depth my oppinion which i mentioned on the previous page, though i havn't been to free play (surprise surprise, cost and travel to melbourne was the issue) i have heard a lot about it i think a longer conference/expo encompasing elements from Freeplay and AGDC would be nice.

and lorien, i still have no idea what you mean, so i'll just leave that alone.

<.< wheres the love people...

truely.. i'm just trying my best to attend whatever comes up at that time. i went to freeplay and that was cool. then again it was $20 and a bus trip.. not alot really.

I think it was the opening keynote of the 2002 AGDC where Marsha Thompson mentioned that Melbourne had secured 3 more conferences. I guess that does leave the possibiity that it might be hosted somewhere else next year. Will have to see if any info comes up on that.

Rosco, what is the AEAF exactly?

Is it a conference, and if it is, could you give us the full name of the event and possibly a link to the website.

Cheers.

Australian Effects & Animation Festival. http://www.dmw.com.au/

Pretty much more geared towards the film industry.

quote:Originally posted by LiveWire
and lorien, i still have no idea what you mean, so i'll just leave that alone.

Probably best LiveWire, I'm head tutor of Management Information Systems (a comp-sci subject) in first semester. This means I teach kids about the software executives use to help them formulate long term strategic plans based on previous and incoming data. The sorts of systems used by companies like Microsoft, Enron, Amazon, Google and Dell.

I teach kids about how businesses are really systems that can be broken down into sub systems, and how businesses can be re-engineered and optimised to be able to make more money faster, and how where the most money to be made is in areas which aren't covered by law yet.

I know how much clearer this situation is made by drawing data flow diagrams for example. I'd rather not.

For me, personally, as things stand, the 'A' in AGDC does not stand for 'Australian', nor does the last 'A' in GDAA stand for 'Australia'.

You should be a pretty rich guy by now with that knowledge & information Lorien [:P]

Sorry to go off topic, but I couldnt help that poke [:D]

That is a pretty good one HazarD [:)] If you want I'd be quite happy to see if I could help streamline things at Kalescent for you. No fee required. I'm not poking fun in case you were wondering [:)]

Woot. My favourite subject - I think I usually have a comment about the AGDC every year?.. should just pop in a link. BAh, couldnt be bothered searching.

Anyhow, heres my take on the AGDC. The Australian game industry _needs_ a serious professional conference. However, our industry here is small, and shrinking. Our fee-for-service contracts that supply 99% of our developers here are going to be undercut by China and India. Leaving us.. buggered, or in a very shrinking pool of contracts with which to feed the industry.

To me, this means we should be combining our resources, developing close internal relationships and developing new and fresh companies with great IP. Honestly I'd like to see something like FreePlay and AGDC join and make a combined effort. Whereby game professionals, and indies can exchange, learn and breed monster game industry ideas.

I love living in the land of the fairies though.. as friends often tell me, so this is probably alot more a pipedream than anywhere near a possibility. But surely this would be the sort of conference that would benefit all? Even lowering prices that the public can get involved? Isnt that a decent move? Surely greater access and openness would only lead to more local exposure, and quite likely a more active local game market. Or are we to harbour a closed, 'hidden away', industry that is hardly accessible to even our up and coming indie developers?

This is the kikker really. Who _really_ needs the learned information more, along with the chit-chats that go with it? The professional game companies that already have contracts and cash flow? Or the new companies, the indies and the struggling startups? Can anyone here (who has been to the ADGC) honestly say that the speakers at the AGDC helped them improve their job? Most whom go see it as a shoulder rubbing exercise, and a big piss-up to catch up with friends.. who could _really_ benefit most from it?

In reality the ADGC is more like a professional association meeting. Everyone rocks up, tells each other how well they are doing, exchanges war stories, listens to annecdotes from days gone by and catches a few sessions without taking too many notes about what anyone actually talked about. In fact, that, in itself, is pretty funny - I havent seen too many people take notes at an ADGC lecture/presentation. Odd.. everyone must have photographic memories.

Anyway.. just my wish for bliss and happiness in the Aus gaming industry. Although by the looks of things, I think the opposite is heading our way. Doom an gloom? Maybe. Pessimistic? Yeah, probably. Hopeful? Always.. come on AGDC, open up your doors. Get the people in, make it an event that makes you want to keep the ticket stubs!!!

Good post Grover, I agree with your comments.

The first step we need to take is to support other aussie companies where ever possible, too much work from here is being outsourced abroad... how can we expect to compete with Asian countries if we keep giving them work?

We need to pool our resources as Grover stated, we have to work smarter and build a reputation for quality and as world leaders in technology if we are to compete.

These are the nuts n' bolts topics that need to be addressed at the AGDC.

I agree, it is a good post Grover, however I don't think combining freeplay with a more commercial game-dev oriented conference is such a great idea: there are things being done (like Escape from Woomera, The Kill Yourself Game, Street Survivor, etc etc etc) that are completely different in intention and approach to AAA titles, and IMHO putting them next to each other won't do either much good.

Do you want to find (for example) an Unreal mod where you have to jump off one of the burning World Trade Centre towers at a commercial conference? Or how about playing Tetris with people for blocks after they've jumped? (both of these exist btw)...

quote:Originally posted by lorien
...Do you want to find (for example) an Unreal mod where you have to jump off one of the burning World Trade Centre towers at a commercial conference? Or how about playing Tetris with people for blocks after they've jumped? (both of these exist btw)...

Point taken. But I remember back in ye olden days when I used to play a handheld console game where you would catch babies falling from a burning building! These babies were burnt, crushed or saved. Sick idea but fantastic game play. It is so often in life that some of the most quirky / taboo ideas are the most fun. Not surprising that playing aliens killing humans is more fun than vice-versa. Playing a bully is more fun than playing a victim. GTA is just plain wrong. Remember Id's Wolfenstein - you could shoot and kill dogs!

I don't envy the IE Events job with the AGDC. They have to cater to absolutely *everyone* in the industry. From Artists (modellers, level designers, concept), coders, management and business, from industry professionals to the student. Give a technical talk and you'll alienate the students, or give a general talk and professionals will complain that they got nothing out of it. There's no doubt that for whatever area of expertise you're in, there'll only going to be small pockets of sessions that will be vital viewing to you, so you won't be leaving with your money's worth, unless your idea of a conference is the same as the one mentioned below. The question of what is really needed to make the AGDC relevant and worth the pricey admission is going to need some real discussion. Maybe it shouldn't have to be and is fine as it is (apart for the entry price). It's a conference. You go there to listen to some sessions, have a bit of fun at party night, meet some people, and that's it.

I agree with Grover as well, but I think that making real progress for growing the industry is such a big task that requires preparation, planning, organising, plenty of following up, and with the involvement of many parties, bodies, associations, and government, that it's beyond the scope of a 3 day conference.

Perhaps Government funding for dev kits needs a relook - has that initiative bore any fruit? $20,000 for each kit is pretty costly when free alternatives are available, and the hurdle of actually developing a current gen title from scratch isn't really made easier for a new start up. Better use of that funding could be to create new initiatives that might include funding of cost saving middleware and tools development for a world-wide market (that other local developers can license cheaply or even contribute to). Funding and promoting Nocturnal's Catapult for GBA development, Fmod (if they even need support that is [;)]), or Hemiware's Serenity engine for the PSP/current/next-gen consoles to the local industry (including commercial and independants). Create an open dialogue for developers to share ideas and resources with the aforementioned middleware and tools development. Developers making use of the outstanding services available in the industry that's available now at every possible opportunity (Kalescent Studio's services, Virtual Mechanix, Hyperfocal Design's high quality textures, the many audio services around etc). I think this is some of what Red 5 and Grover mean by pooling our resources and supporting each other, which does happen a little bit but not to a huge extent. Which developers are outsourcing work overseas? o_O

In anycase, funding developer kits for start ups and promoting current devs at E3 isn't going to cut it for progress. The industry is moving fast towards third world outsourcing, digital distribution, insane budgets, all of which is totally gripped by publishers. Time to think outside the box a bit.

quote:Originally posted by Souri

The industry is moving fast towards third world outsourcing, digital distribution, insane budgets, all of which is totally gripped by publishers. Time to think outside the box a bit.

I was with you 100% until the last sentence - Governments and [url="http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=quango"]QuaNGOs[/url] are not known for their nimble, box-opening ways and IMHO many of the ideas that might help are already in boxes used for other industries...

...such as tax breaks for investment in film encouraging commercial investment in less commercial ventures
...such as getting the word out there about Arts Council style grants for experimental "interactive media"

It's the industry bodies who might benefit from more experimental and 'out of the box' thinking, then bringing those ideas fully formed to government. A darn hard job that I can see is being tried. The more members they have, though, the better they can succeed in this. Look at the bloody Architects - you can't even call youselves an Architect without being registered with the professional organisation! Is it any wonder that they get heaps of press and goverment support?

disclaimer: some of my best friends, my passing aquaintances, people I've met are architects.

quote:Originally posted by mcdrewski
...such as getting the word out there about Arts Council style grants for experimental "interactive media"

Getting off topic, but I gather from Freeplay that there aren't actually any arts grants left for interactive media. One of the key figures we have to thank for this insane state of affairs is the Melbourne media's little hitler, Andrew Bolt, who flamed the living daylights out of arts funding, the EFW team, and ran a media inquiry into arts funding in Aus. Andrew Bolt held up Le Miserable as an example of the kind of thing arts funding in Aus should be devoted to. If it was somehow possible to translate the musical language of Le Mis into english the result would be something like Little Golden Books... :(

EFW was funded by an Australia Council grant of $25k, and this was one government body funding something that was highly critical of government policies. Result: quite a few people in the Australia Council were fired, and funding dried up.

EFW met nearly all of the Aus Council's criteria for selecting which works to fund...

In addition, the Film Victoria Digital Media Fund (DMF), which is what largely funded acmipark, has ceased to be arts funding, and become business funding. Just ask Ben Palmer :(

Perhaps we should have a thread on arts funding for new media?

good idea!

quote:Originally posted by Souri
Maybe it shouldn't have to be and is fine as it is (apart for the entry price). It's a conference. You go there to listen to some sessions, have a bit of fun at party night, meet some people, and that's it.

To me that seems more like the association meeting that Grover talked about than a conference that's actually worth going to.

Hey lorien, i beleive you forgot to flame AIE in your last two posts...

Just thought you should know.