Total backflip

I know you're gonna think "god damnit, I thought we all agreed on this!".. I really rallied for the car racing type mod, but upon serious reflection, I think a FPS mod would have much more of a lasting appeal in terms of gameplay, and that's what we most want in the end - people to actually play it (and to have stuff to show in our portfolio work too [:)]). I can imagine playing a racing game mod online for only a few rounds, and that's it. FPS are just more involving and require more tactics / strategy, than racing games..
My rationale for choosing a racing game was that it could be small scaled (didn't require a LOT of work), but I'm sure it can be the same for a FPS if we concentrate on a few maps and characters at first, and build upon that.. Oh, and if any of you have built vehicles, I'm sure we can still have them in the game..
One thing to note is that pretty much every man and his dog will be making a FPS team based ala counterstrike clone, but I don't think it matters.. personally, the goal is to have something to play that you made yourself..
Anyway, feel free to disagree or tell me off.. [:)] I know most of you are probably too busy to take part, but I'll certainly be doing things.. Reading up on the UT2k3 tutorials has got my imagination going. [:)]

Meatex Salami's picture

I was kind of thinking the same thing from the start, I didn't say anything cause i really didn't mind either way (although i do prefer playing FPS)
There are lots of different mods which we could borrow ideas.
I like what i have seen of ut2k3 engine however i am doomed to never be able to play it as no matter what i try i can't get my new mobo/duron 1300 to work [:(]
Anyways i agree with you totaly. If we could get a coder (check out gamedev.net; flipcode.com and gamasutra) i think we should try a multiplayer style oni (play that game it's kewl, only 3d anime game that is still like anime)
FPS is the way to go and will be for sometime, the genre just provides more imersion and atmosphere.
Anyhow i think we should go FPS, i'm interested in hearing what the others have to say on the matter [8D]

Bloody hell its a giant harmonica!

Fluffy CatFood's picture

I like the idea of an fps, unfortunatly I'm busy with other mod work, but I'll help out with ideas

Lead paint: delicious but deadly!

Fluffy CatFood's picture

I like the sound of Melee mod, Different weapon classes with certain abilities, sort of like rune but with special moves, blocking etc etc, slightly technical while still being fun.
I've always also wanted to make a street fighter style beatem'up, but those games suck on a keyboard and not that many people have control pads

Lead paint: delicious but deadly!

JonathanKerr's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Fluffy CatFood

I like the sound of Melee mod, Different weapon classes with certain abilities, sort of like rune but with special moves, blocking etc etc, slightly technical while still being fun.
I've always also wanted to make a street fighter style beatem'up, but those games suck on a keyboard and not that many people have control pads

Lead paint: delicious but deadly!


I've got a control pad.

Well if a fighter is in the works, count me in. Alternatively, maybe there should be a brainstorming thread for what sort of FPS to go for. If you need some concepts...

EDIT - where did my Psycho Mantis avatar go?

souri's picture

I've made designs for one of the characters .. I'll scan it in and put it up probably on thursday night or something.. I could finish it in 5 minutes, but I am in dire need of an eraser, and I don't have one in the entire house! [:)]
I've never played Rune, but as long as it isn't a deathmatch type of game, then I'm happy. [:)]

davidcoen's picture

FPS ideas... well, a baby i have adopted is procedural game play.

for instance, game play variable effect game play. (simple i know) but from moving slower when you are dammage to more interesting things like the following

"super model food fight"
can do 2 types of damamge, remove health or add health. you die when you become too thin (0 health) or fat (200 health).
the health determins speed of movement (low health, move faster) and time taken to reload weapon (high health, reload faster)
sheilds where sillicon, and it reduce the amount of health change from dammage.
had a piece_meal weapon system here you could find different weapon bit to be assembled together to produce different effects at cost of reload time and ammo.
(even wrote up a design document detaling all this and more, on cd somewhere)

DSC

boat's picture

well that does sound technical

maybe a futuristic counterstrike ?

Fluffy CatFood's picture

ewwwwww, no more tactical anti-terrorist shooters!!!!! :)
A fighting game would be more original.
As for Rune, its a third person adventure, you play a viking out for revenge, you get swords clubs and axes and do a lot of dismembering of monsters right out of norse mythology, It didnt really sell too well but it was kind of cool.
Epic is planning a mod competition in the coming weeks, if the sumea mod gets of the ground, it should be entered

Lead paint: delicious but deadly!

JonathanKerr's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Fluffy CatFood

ewwwwww, no more tactical anti-terrorist shooters!!!!! :)
A fighting game would be more original.
As for Rune, its a third person adventure, you play a viking out for revenge, you get swords clubs and axes and do a lot of dismembering of monsters right out of norse mythology, It didnt really sell too well but it was kind of cool.
Epic is planning a mod competition in the coming weeks, if the sumea mod gets of the ground, it should be entered

Lead paint: delicious but deadly!


I agree - if we do a FPS, we might as well do something different. a 4 player co op level for example.

As for a fighter - you'd have to have a control scheme in mind. PC's aren't really cut out for them - at least not with the sort of complexity that console/arcade fighters have. Or do something really old school - like a scrolling beat em up or shoot em up but with some 3d graphics. Maybe even a platform game?

Meatex Salami's picture

NOT a fighting game like MK or tekken or anything like that
YUK!
An Oni Style fighting game would be great if we do a fighter and the control system for it is easy to use and good (would of been better if you could of changed the controls)
Anyway i think we can easily rule out a CS clone
We could do a AVP2 hunt mode style mod
That is soo much fun [:)]

Bloody hell its a giant harmonica!

boat's picture

id like to give a vote towards a side scrolling and another to "the hunt" :)

Fluffy CatFood's picture

Hmmmm, co-op is an area that hasnt been as exploited as some other things, sounds good.
A theme I dont want to see is WW2 crap, everyone seems to want to make one, bah I say.
I like horror. Horror FPS are rare, undying and systemshock2. Anybody seen dawn of the dead?
Its a zombie movie thats a cult hit, its pretty good. I like like the sound of cutting down legions of the un-dead cannon fodder with various implements of destruction. Of course that ideas limited.
HMMMM curse this mental block of mine!!

Lead paint: delicious but deadly!

Meatex Salami's picture

The undead idea would be fun for a couple of minutes
Also why a 2d scoller?
If we are going to do that we might as well do a mod for a game like space invaders (okay an exageration but you get the point)
Has anyone here played Oni?
Also co-op would be kewl but we can't really do that without doing a single player game as well :)
You do get a kind of co-op game if its like 2 hunters against 8... well hunted especailly if we could get the ut2 AI to work in our mod (shouldn't be too hard to get them to be hunted characters depending on how similar they are to current bots)
Anyways i gtg so i'll put my vote on the hunters idea

Bloody hell its a giant harmonica!

souri's picture

I'm in strong favour for a futuristic look, mainly, as I mentioned earlier, it encourages creativity.. Personally, I love Counterstrike, but I do know why you'd cringe if there was ANOTHER Counterstrike clone out there.. but I think that gametype is pretty cool, and not too complicated to get into.

I do like the idea of 'the hunt' too (unfortunately I haven't played Aliens vs Predator.. I haven't played Oni either)..

So what I'm suggesting is that this mod have perhaps 2 (or maybe 3) game modes.. Counterstike has 2 game modes.. (hostage rescue and defuse)

I'm rooting for a team-based shooter ala Counterstike for one of the game modes... we'll have our own original ideas in that though. I'd be keen to keep the double jump and shield, and adrenaline that UT2k3 already offers in it.. just make it more slower paced, have some vehicles etc.. UT2k3 is perfect for it.

.. about the scrolling fighting game - they do sound like fun, but as my reasoning was that it might not be as lasting in terms of gameplay as compared to a FPS..

Anyway, check out my robo design. [:)]

Daemin's picture

Doesn't CounterStrike have:
Hostage Rescue
Bomd / Defuse
Escape
Assault
Gameplay modes? even though the first two are the most popular.

davidcoen's picture

i wouldn't underestimate 2d games. and you could get some great effects with 2d gameplay in a 3d engine. but anyway, 'futeristic counterstrike' brainstorm... well, how about something where each time you die, you are reincarnated on the loosing side in 2way battle.
still like the procedual design stuff, and having peicemeal weapons is part of this concept. either r_type hold down and charge for bigger attackes, or add on bit of weapon that modify the effects (add this bit for x2 damage, x2 reload tim and x4 ammo) though then again, hear hints of dukenukeem having great DM as of creative weapons (freeze, shrink, noise)

DSC

JonathanKerr's picture

quote:


Originally posted by davidcoen

i wouldn't underestimate 2d games. and you could get some great effects with 2d gameplay in a 3d engine. but anyway, 'futeristic counterstrike' brainstorm... well, how about something where each time you die, you are reincarnated on the loosing side in 2way battle.
still like the procedual design stuff, and having peicemeal weapons is part of this concept. either r_type hold down and charge for bigger attackes, or add on bit of weapon that modify the effects (add this bit for x2 damage, x2 reload tim and x4 ammo) though then again, hear hints of dukenukeem having great DM as of creative weapons (freeze, shrink, noise)

DSC


David's got a point. Have you seen what Contra:Shattered Soldier looks like? It looks fantastic.

The benefit of 2d gameplay in a 3d engine is that you don't get camera control issues (although these probs don't really occur in 1st person games, mainly 3rd person).

If we did something like Contra - there would still be room for plenty of creativity. Nice fx, animations, models, bosses etc.. these would still have to be done. One thing's for sure, it look waaay different from most other mods out there and everyone enjoys the old school flavour. Throw in a 2 player co op mode and voila!

souri's picture

Platform shooters are cool, but even with co-op play modes, we're talking about a limited replay value when you compete with AI and when the game actually has a goal. [:)].. what happens when your co-op mate dies off? What's driving you to carry on by yourself (especially after you've already finished it)? I love Contra, Metal Slug etc but I couldn't imagine playing it over and over and over again. It just doesn't have that lasting ability comparatively to a FPS team based shooter where you're up against human opponents.

JonathanKerr's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Souri

Platform shooters are cool, but even with co-op play modes, we're talking about a limited replay value when you compete with AI and when the game actually has a goal. [:)].. what happens when your co-op mate dies off? What's driving you to carry on by yourself (especially after you've already finished it)? I love Contra, Metal Slug etc but I couldn't imagine playing it over and over and over again. It just doesn't have that lasting ability comparatively to a FPS team based shooter where you're up against human opponents.

Yeah true. But if we did a FPS mod - it'd be a couple of levels at most, so I suppose you could say there is limited replay there but the final decision is yours I guess. I'll go along with whatevers decided[:)]

I've always thought a good way of getting around the 2p Co-Op death is to have shared credits. That way you usually die at the same time.

Meatex Salami's picture

quote:


Originally posted by JonathanKerr
Yeah true. But if we did a FPS mod - it'd be a couple of levels at most, so I suppose you could say there is limited replay there...

Who says we are limited to only a couple of levels [8]?
Sure we will probably only have a few average levels to start off with but when ppl get used to UT2 mapping there will be more maps that are better quality.
We need a hunt mode cause if you ever played that on AVP2 you'll know how much pant exploding fun you can have (with taunts and stuff)
That could be teamplay too
Then we could have another mode which is like CS on acid (thats the impression i get when you talk about it souri) If you go out and get desert crisis that a similar kind of idea. Its like CS but weapons are taking from movies like aliens and others.
So this is what i suggest
Seeing as there are ppl who like the "cs on acid" kind of idea and others who like "the hunt" idea rather than trying to choose lets just do both! [8D]
Maybe we could also do maps with 2 LODS so people who don't have top'o'the line computers can still play it
Cause i'll probably have to wait till around 2005 till i can play ut2
Everything i would do i would do at AIE
anyway im really annoyed atm so im going to go

Bloody hell its a giant harmonica!

JonathanKerr's picture

+

quote:

Originally posted by Meatex_Salami

quote:

Originally posted by JonathanKerr
Yeah true. But if we did a FPS mod - it'd be a couple of levels at most, so I suppose you could say there is limited replay there...

Who says we are limited to only a couple of levels [8]?
Sure we will probably only have a few average levels to start off with but when ppl get used to UT2 mapping there will be more maps that are better quality.
We need a hunt mode cause if you ever played that on AVP2 you'll know how much pant exploding fun you can have (with taunts and stuff)
That could be teamplay too
Then we could have another mode which is like CS on acid (thats the impression i get when you talk about it souri) If you go out and get desert crisis that a similar kind of idea. Its like CS but weapons are taking from movies like aliens and others.
So this is what i suggest
Seeing as there are ppl who like the "cs on acid" kind of idea and others who like "the hunt" idea rather than trying to choose lets just do both! [8D]
Maybe we could also do maps with 2 LODS so people who don't have top'o'the line computers can still play it
Cause i'll probably have to wait till around 2005 till i can play ut2
Everything i would do i would do at AIE
anyway im really annoyed atm so im going to go

Bloody hell its a giant harmonica!


It's good to aim high, but if it's our first mod, like Souri said, it's better to aim for a realistic goal. That's why I reckoned with a couple of levels. From what I remember from the AIE dip II game last year, it took them about 8 months to have a couple of levels, 10 or so characters (?) plus the actual gameplay up and running. It seems to take longer than it looks. That was them studying full time. We are doing this in 'spare time' which varies from person to person.

I haven't UT2, so can you explain these hunt modes or whatever?

So what sort of a art direction/theme are we looking for?

souri's picture

I was hoping for a futuristic look. I've pretty much set my goal of doing *at least* one character model, and one level. If it turns out that no one else contributes, I can offer something playable with that. [:)].. I think you've all played Counterstrike before, and that shows that you don't really have to have many, many levels for people to enjoy it. A few really good ones is all that's needed, the rest is all bonus. Heck, I'd say we could pull it off with 3 good maps, and 2 character models for that game mode.. and a few more maps for the hunt mode..

davidcoen's picture

bimbos vrs jocks (hey, if it is a mod, then it is free licence to be sexsist and or politically incorrect)

the earth has evolved to two enclaves, either hunting the others down. the beautiful, fast moving bimbos and the slower heavly armed jocks.

will be back as soon as i find a good beer idea, but did have one where you where chasing waitresses who where carriying beer, the aim was to capture the waitresses but you are too slow, as you drink beer the waitresses look better and you move faster but loose control...

DSC

StrkEagle's picture

AIE dip2 2001 (febuary - december)
20 ppl in art team produced;
-basically one complex level in the end
-around 10 playable characters, couple of non playables
-animations
-textures
-scenery
+more

4 programmers
-UT engine & c++
-ai
-lighting
-integration of characters and items into engine
+more

not all of the 20 artists pulled their weight though... a core group of 10 or so were the harder working

boat's picture

so thats it then ?
a futuristic CS clone with diffent play modes like "the hunt" ?
sounds great to me :)

Meatex Salami's picture

Well don't forget UT characters are 1/4 animation 1/4 model and the rest is calculated by the engine (mmmmmmmmmmm)
Anyhow i reckon i could do a character and a map (just take me like 1 month to compile and i won't be able to test it)
Anyhoo
To Kerr man the hunt mode from avp2 has one "team" as the hunter/s and the other as the hunted/s (bad grammar i know)
You can set the ratio of hunter v hunted and you can choose which race is the hunter and which is the hunted. When one hunted kills a hunter they switch characters with the hunter (only the hunters get points for kills)
That is the jist
it is fun doing multiple marines versus a lone predator (cause of all the 1337 guns and ammo he has and his strength and marines being not so strong)
I also vote for futuristic (i think we can set that much in stone right now)
anyway just some short colour commentary from me and im off [8D]

Bloody hell its a giant harmonica!

souri's picture

quote:


either r_type hold down and charge for bigger attackes, or add on bit of weapon that modify the effects (add this bit for x2 damage, x2 reload tim and x4 ammo)

That is an absolutely brilliant idea.. we should definately implement that.

JonathanKerr's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Souri

quote:

either r_type hold down and charge for bigger attackes, or add on bit of weapon that modify the effects (add this bit for x2 damage, x2 reload tim and x4 ammo)

That is an absolutely brilliant idea.. we should definately implement that.


Yeah - it'd add a fair bit of strategy. What would stop people from walking around with a charged gun and getting loads of one hit kills? Or are there shields and stuff? Bear with me, I haven't really followed the UT2k3 hype.

davidcoen's picture

the way of stopping people walking around with a loaded supercharged gun could be if it when off: (randomly/ if you got hit/ if you moved too fast/ whatever)

perhaps i should stop flooding people with ideas (as it leads to "wow, thats cool, lets add it") and listen to sugestions for the game situation. (and then add appropriate things on)

so far we seem to have "futeristic" and "hunting".
are we in a war torn world? technology running rampent? aliens? genetic modifications? polution causing posioning and starvation? capitalism? religion? moon colinist rebelling?

though anyway, the following was the weapon description from my 'supermodel food fight' game design// basically working backwards from q3
WEAPONS------------------------------------------
can drop weapon bits.
can only carry one of each bit.
shots start from in front of player (on edge of collision object) at 1m height, same as the camera object for the player's view.

There are two base weapons, both zero range and no need for ammo. acquiring these weapons does 50 points damage of their type, drop them to get it back);-
food 'gain' 'contact hamburger' (picking one up the player gains 50 food points...)
food 'loss' 'lyposuction unit' (picking one up the player losses 50 food points...)
so if you begin the game on the super model side, you get a 'lyposuction unit' and start with 50 food points
'base' (0.5m radius sphere, 1/12 second reload, 1 damage, 0 ammo) can't gain splash without range

There are 3 weapon power ups; -
'Range' (0.1m radius shot)
'Blast' (1m radius shot, x10 (ammo cost, damage, reload time) but shot travel a step slower, and gains splash if ranged)
'Supercharge' (x2 radius, x4 (ammo, damage and reload) can be changed before hand for x2 (ammo, damage), which cost the full

reload time before, and once supercharged has a 1/100 chance of detonating the attack each second including all of player's ammo ('changing' weapon releases the shot) splash goes off on hitting first player but shot continues through players)

two damage flavours;-
'wet' speed step 1, 1 damage, cost 1 ammo, reload 1/6 seconds
'dry' speed step 2, 2 damage, cost 2 ammo, reload 1/3 seconds

speed step 1. instantaneous cylinder shot through world, stopped by players. (for recoil treat as speed of sound, 380m/s)
2. 'rocket' travelling at 20m/ second (plus player velocity), splash 0.25m, (detonate after 10 seconds if it hasen't hit something)
3. 'grenade' travelling at 5m/ second (plus player velocity), %25 effected by gravity, splash 2.5m, detonate on contact player or hitting object at > 45deg angle of incidence, or after 5 seconds)

can equip both 'loss' and 'gain' base weapons for the BFG equivalent, x4(damage, radius, splash area) but player takes 1/8th the damage each shot. the second equipped 'base' weapon is considered secondary (does not effect damage type) unequipping the primary 'base' weapon moves the 'secondary to 'primary'
nb. just need a 'base' equipped to have a attack, can combine a 'base' with 'blast' or 'supper charage', just don't get splash without 'range'.

if splash damage, the shell does half, and the splash the other half of the damage. (if you get hit by the shell, automatically get the splash)
Can't begin to fire unless you have the ammo (for supercharge this means you can't charge the weapon unless you have x2 cost, but can normal fire)
Can't fire again until you have finished reloading.

Basic 'wet' range attack is instantanious bullet travel (speed step 1), each shot is 1 cost ammo does 1 damage, 1/6 seconds to reload.
Basic 'dry' ranged attack is 20m second shell (speed step 2), each shot cost 2 ammo and does 2 damage, 1/3 a second to reload, the shell does 1 damage and the splash of 0.25m does another 1 damage.

JonathanKerr's picture

quote:


so far we seem to have "futeristic" and "hunting".
are we in a war torn world? technology running rampent? aliens? genetic modifications? polution causing posioning and starvation? capitalism? religion? moon colinist rebelling?


Why not have a normal future? I'm for anything as long as it's not cyberpunk. That's been done to death.

Actually, I'm joking about a normal future. But the cyberpunk thing still stands.