I guess I?m writing this up in boredom. Or maybe because as the last few days I?ve been thinking deeply about a lot of things related to this year. The bellow I guess you could say is the result of all my work this year.
*Disclaimer: The Company I?ve applied for will not be mentioned nor will the names of people I?ve been in contact with. As the outcome of my application is still unclear I feel it would be too unfair to disclose those things.
So. Let me bring you all up to date with the latest news. I applied to a studio in my state a while back for a level design position. I sent this application out as a ?Well. They will probably never reply.. But I gotta give it a go.?
Well I was proven wrong. They did reply. I got an interview.
That took a while to come around?3 weeks of waiting. 3 weeks of preparing and 3 weeks of biting my nails. Would I do well? Did I prepare my materials as well as I could? I even had dreams of the interview screwing up badly.
In those 3 weeks. I made sure to sort myself out. My previous interviews to other companies, while composed well where ultimately for one reason or another total failures. There were reasons for this. One of them was lack of polished material taken to the interview and this was something I really worked on.
3 weeks work and just under $45 of printing and mailing costs. I had 2 fully polished level design documents and an 11-page full colour sampling of my level design work as well as a flash key they could transfer all my work to their hard-drives. I had a mission, and that was to go in and sell myself. Making sure that when I left that studio and walked back into the elevator they had no doubts or concerns about my abilities.
I walked in 30mins early and sat down. Reading magazines until the design director and another nice bloke approached and showed me to a meeting room.
They started the usual way. Pen and paper in hand and ready to analyze me. And from the reaction I got when I laid out my materials, they seemed surprised.
They asked questions and I answered directly. No deception of my skills. What I did know I showed them in my materials and what I didn?t know I explained that I hadn?t learnt that yet but reinforced that I was quick to learn and that it wouldn?t be a large problem.
Using a scripting engine and using in-house tools where two things I didn?t know. The later is impossible for me to know before hand though so that didn?t work against me. The first one did I felt. But this is one skill of many.
They put the paper down if I remember. Started asking more casual questions. What's you?re favorite game? What do you think of next gen? I relaxed and told them the truth. I maintain my integrity that I do not oversell my abilities or myself. They did ask more in-depth questions. What did I expect to be paid? When I could start work? Questions hinting at interest but of course nothing that stated directly that I had a job at this studio.
People say that to stand out you need your own selling point. I believed I offered these guys something they might not get often in an interview for a junior.
Design.
My level called the ?Two Miners? for Unreal 2004 isn?t the prettiest junior designed level. It doesn?t have the best placement of items or the most ingenious lighting methods. But it has something else. It had game play design.
From what I can gather, the standard norm for a junior level design level is a death match level. 1vs1 to 4vs4 size. Something quite small but being so small you can really refine the visuals in it.
My map was a tactical 16vs16 map. Having pre-design documents and refinement to the playability of the map. Two teams battling for points of interest to destroy each others power core.
Add that with something else they might of not seen from a junior level designer, a detailed level designed document.
As far as that interview was concerned. I succeeded in my mission. I gave it my all and left told I would get a contact next week.
They where right, but not in the way I expected.
Usually in most studios the interview was proof enough of skills and personality shown. And it's ether a ring up saying come in for work, or a one paragraph 'sorry, you weren?t quite successful? e-mail. And if anything else were in question provided references/contacts would be accessed. This studio decided to take another approach. I was given an online test.
?The next step for you application is for you to complete some psychometric testing for us.?
For those who like me have no idea what psychometric testing is, It's essentially a series of simple choices you make to determine what kind of worker you are in the workplace. It's pretty legit as a real phychologist signs it.
But, this might mean that they have found applicants of equal skill. And if that's the case and the test is used to sort who gets hired and who doesn?t then this job might not be mine to have. I feel somewhat uneasy that a statistical test could mean the difference between a job in this industry or to continue my horrid weekend works at Coles as a shelve packer. I think any applicant would really. Personality tests are things often used by fast food franchises like KFC.
So I did the test and I?m now currently waiting. Eager to hear what this studio wants. Nervous as there is nothing more I can do to sway their decision. The position will go to who they believe will fit it best. And I guess you could call this the blank time. The time in waiting.
I?m not sure when they will come to a consensus. But I hope it's soon.
And I feel that I did as well as I possibly could. And while I have a lot of positive indicators, and many people inside and outside the industry believe this job is in the bag. I?ve learnt that assuming often leads to pain, I?ve assumed before and been burnt. Also you have to remind yourself that there are factors you just can?t control. Like other applicants, if someone comes in and offers three years prior experience it's hard if not impossible to compete with.
Until I read or hear the words from a representative of this studio ?You have the job? I will not assume so.
But I really hope so. I?ve worked damm hard and I believe I?ve proven myself a worthwhile investment.
But I promise you all this.
Yes or No, you guys will know.
Caroo2006-10-15 03:05:41
oh, psychometric testing - fun... not. In theory if you answered the questions truthfully, the test should reinforce whether your are, or are not, suitable for the job. Although even that is assuming the purpose of the test - it might not even be related to the job directly. ie the test could be used to determine if you are prone to exaggerating/misrepresenting your skills and could indicate if you portfolio is 100% legit... or it might indicate your mental health status and if you pose an 'angel of death' disposition if exposed to violent games all day, every day.
So if you don't get the job based on the test you probably would have been miserable/psychotic doing it anyway. I am quite surprised that they would do such a test for a junior position (I assume that it is a junior position from what you said). It has to be a good sign that they gave you the test at any rate. They must think that the time and resources to test you are worth it.
and let's hope a psychologist checked the test and not a physiologist ;)
good luck.
[QUOTE=JohnN]
and let's hope a psychologist checked the test and not a physiologist ;)
good luck.
[/QUOTE]
GAH!.. yeah thanks for pointing that error out. It?s been corrected.
Yeah, a good deal of people tell me not to worry about the test to much. But this is the furthest I?ve ever gone and I?d like to see it go all the way!
I wish you the best luck in scoring this job Caroo, sounds as though you've done all the right things up till this point.
Without the intention of trying to discourage you, I've seen some amazingly talented applicants denied jobs in game studios due to the management concluding that they just won't "fit in" working in a team environment ...in fact I believe this is probably the most important criteria to an employer.
However never underestimate the power of perseverance... this is the key IMO.
I generally have more faith in applicants who go the extra mile, the one's who don't take no for an answer (so to speak)... the one's who offer to do a test and then keep me up to date with their progress.
Food for thought :)
Good luck!
Well I do have to admit as much material as I?ve shown, team work is something I haven?t been able to demonstrate. For obvious reasons. I'm not in the industry and I study at home.
And personally I find counting school and uni group assignments as tangible values of teamwork to be vague and unreliable.
The reason for this is simple. In an environment where you have all groups of people. from the richest to the poorest, laziest to most self motivated, I sometimes see a Patten occur. One or two people in a team will take the bulk of the work. The other two-four will sit back and do squat and from the two hard workers something really good comes out of that team.
And the lazys get high marks for doing nothing because teamwork is usually scored as a total whole, not on individual merits.
This doesn?t always happen.. But it did happen quite a lot in school and from my friends accounts from studying at uni [a industrial design degree believe it or not] He agrees this is more often the case then not.
I got nothing against our education system; I guess it's doing the best it can. I just have a problem with people who don't pull their weight around XD
I think. For junior positions like the one I?m going to teamwork might be something your really just gonna have to take a chance on. And besides, with all these probation periods in place you can kick him out with less then a weeks notice.
It's not like these studios are making iron clad commitments. I know they always wanna get things right the first time, we all do. I just hope their not gonna see my home schooling as a ?lone-wolf? act against the world.
Cheers.
I hear ya on the 'team excercises' at school and uni. If you have colaborated on any personal projects that could be a good source of material to focus on if you are ever asked interview questions on that topic in the future - ie if you have designed a level and passed on responsibility to some one else to make part of it, and yet another person to do textures for it that would not only demonstrate team experience but also delegation skills!
also, questions on team experience may refer to the ability to recieve and act on criticism, so if you can recite samlpes of that (such as positive actions you have underdaken as a response to comments posted about your work in a forum) that would also be fine material to bring up at interview time.
so time for you to start a project with some friends and take positive action from crits people have given you!
Well, sounds like you've been really putting in the effort Caroo. All the best, hope you get it. But the pessimist in me won't be surprised if you don't get it. But that's just me, and your shouldn't listen to such negativity :)
I don't recall whether you've been bothering yet, but have you tried applying for jobs interstate yet?
I know that Vic has a lot of studios, and ideally if you can get a job there, you should be able to keep much of your career their. Or at least in theory, as it usually doesn't work out that way ? especially if you are starting your career. It is also a good way of filling the time-in-between productively, instead of stressing out about one job application ? though, if you are dying to hear feedback so as to make your other applications better, then perhaps doing something else is a better option while you wait.
I know that MF are looking for level designers for their Canberra Studio. And though I am not exactly their biggest fan, they are still a pretty good studio to work with when starting out. Especially considering that at least on the surface, they seem to be doing reasonably well at the moment.
I'm sure you can find other junior designer positions in other states as well ? apparently there is supposed to be this shortage of talent or something, though it could just be a lack of vision as far as the local industry is concerned.
Anyway, best of luck ;).
Yeah the big problem with sending out more resumes is that I did that about 2 months ago.
Actually if I remember MF was one of the studios I sent a big ass and expensive hardcopy resume and work samples too. And I never got a reply.
I guess why I'm kinda hopeful on this because the studio I went to is what I consider to be a very good one. Even if this is just an outside view. I've gone to a few interviews and looked around the building and gone. "Oh dear"
But I liked this place. The guys? where nice and the building was to. So I really hope I get it.
But yeah. I've been trying hard not to pin my hopes on it. I tell you though, That is easer said then done.
So yeah. It's not a point of I?m not applying.. I think this year so far total applications would be around the two dozen with 6 replies.
I hope this one will be the last for a long long while.
Yeah, welcome to the world of trying to be a designer in the local industry ;). I won't bother to bore anyone with how well I have gone in the past with the local industry, but rest assured, after my first gig in Australia, my next one was overseas ? and I haven't managed to get work here in Oz as designer since.
It's probably just me or something, and hopefully not the norm.
Only thing that I can suggest Caroo if you don't get this job, other than keep at it and even reapply to companies you have already applied to before ? with newer and hopefully better apps. Is to try your hand at scripting, or try at least to learn more of it. And I don't mean scripting with tools in a level editor. I mean learning a scripting language like: Python, Lua, Ruby, TCL, etc.
Python and Lua have been fairly popular choices in the past by game developers, though I think most studios for next-gen are moving to their own in-house developed scripting languages specific to their needs ? usually based on an existing language like Lua, which has a small footprint.
I think the easiest for someone to pick up who is not a programmer already, would be Python, as there is plenty of material out their to help you, and there are also a lot of user made dlls and such specifically for games. Something else you could try is something like Gamemaker, but, try not to just use the predefined elements but also move into actually writing code / scripts with its language.
I believe someone else suggested doing something like this to you in the past. I believe his suggestion was to write up a small and simple innovative game. Python or even Gamemaker should be ideal for this I would imagine ? I think Gamemaker should really be ideal for this, but, it may be seen as the easy way out rather than if you had used Python to force you to of coded more of it yourself.
That was a big part I think in me getting my first gig, that and the fact that out of the 3 people who applied for a level design position, 2 people got a job ? I was one of those 2, and the other guy ended up getting a senior job as an artist, but quite quickly got a better job at a better studio.
I used director to make a few games, and I think that this was more interesting to the development team than my level design work ? it shows that you can really handle the ?details? and complexity of scripting gameplay I think.
You'd think that being able to show that you can design and use scripting tools would be enough. But it doesn't seem to be so for most studios. And it is my experience ? or at least impression ? that most design roles go to those that can show strong programming skills, next is to those who show strong technical artistic skills, then to those that actually show strong design but don't have either of the other two ? even if they have the aptitude for both, but have preferred to focus on design foremost.
I might add that it doesn't matter whether the other two can show strong design skills or not, as I think most studios find it hard to measure design anyway ? the code and art is much easier.
Anyway, something to think about.
I certainly agree with Cynic on the scripting side of things. You have this spare time, and although you should put a side a good proportion of it to just chilling out and refreshing your mind after this effort, maybe you could start dabbling in scripting here and there in a casual sense.
I've entered the industry (sort of) also without any educational or code background, and in these 4 years I've managed to drum up a certain level of common sense and practicality. But seriously if there was anything which has stood in my way in the past of finding a design job it would be my lack of code and scripting ability. I'm the only Designer I know who can draw, and contrary to what others may think that skill does help a lot, but I still wouldn't class it as a skill to base your application on.
I've found a lot of coders will simply not respect or listen to a Designer without code exp until he/she has proven they can think logically and with common sense. You can only prove that though by working in the field, and some exp in code and script will help you get there.
If I had the time to learn scripting and code I would do it, but I've got other priorities at the moment which take up that time. I have looked into it in the past and really from what I've seen it wouldn't be too hard to get a grasp on it, essentially you just need memory and logic , time and patience, which you have. In comparrison I actually think skills in art and communication are harder to learn than scripting and a basics in code, and you seem to have thoes already. So while you have the time, give it a look.
And good work so far man, you've done more to get in than a lot of other applicants I've seen, and seriously the reasons you've not landed a position yet is more to do with the companies themselves, not your efforts.
Well. Between Jacky and Cynical how could I refuse the advice? I guess since i have the level design and design itself to the acceptable junior levels under my belt, it's time to make a start on getting my head around real scripting.
So if i get this job I?ll at least of made a start.. And if I don?t get it. I have something to work on until the next available job presents itself.
Still. Fingers crossed on the current situation.
The hard part about learning programming is getting started. As most people that haven't been exposed to it before, find they have a psychological hurdle to overcome first.
Once you get past the syntax and start getting a grasp of the concepts ? which will only occur once you start putting what you read into practise, so do the exercises. You'll find that the ?mystery? of programming melts away, as you realise that it is not as hard as you thought it was, and that you do have the aptitude for it after all.
If you haven't been exposed to programming before, when I did some research previously I came across this book at the bookstore:
Python Programming - for the absolute beginner Link
The reason I mention it is that it is for beginners, and it uses games for examples. So as you go along you are making a bunch of games as well ? though simple ones. Might help motivate anyone who is put off by other programming books, though I might add, I have never used the book but instead have another python book collecting dust on my desk ? I really should get around to finishing that one in particular ;). So I can't be sure how great the book is, all I can say based on reading the reviews, is that if you have some programming experience already, then another book may be better suited to you as this is a book for beginners.
If there is any advice that I can give to aspiring designers, then it is to learn a scripting language at the very least ? it will help secure your career for the long-term, not just short-term.CynicalFan2006-10-17 03:43:16
Thank you for the book link. It looks good and it's pretty cheep so I?ll more then likely order it and take a good look through it.
I think the problem with most programming books is that the book itself is a mental hurdle.
I brought a book about 9 months ago called. game scripting mastery which supposably goes from the most simple definitions of what programming and scripting is and builds your knowledge to "professional" standards.
Until just today. I haven?t approached the book with the intent to learn it. Sure I?ve looked through it. But it suffers from two big problems in my eyes.
Problem one: Too Big! The total page count minus the index in this book is 1200 pages.. 1200 PAGES OF TINY LETTERS AND MINIMAL PICTURES!
I mean. The first thing I think when I look through this book is "f**k..where do I start?"
Problem number two is even worse. This book provides plenty of samples. But no practical exercises. So I?m really learning through reading. Which is far less effective then learning through doing. For at least to what I?ve seen so far of the book.
The book you linked to seemed to have done its job better at being user friendly. Having practical examples and being just under 500 pages which is small enough to tackle and big enough to get a good few lessons into.
I'll keep reading and studying game scripting mastery until this other book arrives in my hands. Then I?ll determine which one to follow through with.
GOOD NEWS!!!!
While I?m not to sure if I should state the studio. So I?ll leave that to your imaginations until I know I can state which one.
I HAVE THE JOB!
Got the ring up around 2:30 Tuesday. I've been offered a contract and if I sign it I?ll be starting work sometime in November.
So dudes. I'm totally ecstatic! My hard work has finally paid off.
I do however want to thank you guys. The members of the sumea forum who took the time to assist in teaching and looking at my work that I posted on the designer section. The blokes who supported me.
Thanks a bunch.
Now.. I'm gonna go celebrate in the way most suited. I?m gonna do something I?ve been wanting to do for 3 years. QUIT COLES!
No more shelve facing for me!
By the sounds of it, you put in an awesome effort, and I definitely wish you all the best.
And I guess you could call this the blank time. The time in waiting.
Spend that time doing more design stuff. It'll distract your head a bit, and you'll have improved more from when they last saw you. G'luck champ! @:-D